Guild Wars 2

Donari.5237:

Yujin.1785:

Man the lengths people are willing to defend anet on these forums…

Man, the lengths people are willing to go to to pillory ANet on their own forums …

It works both ways. Opinions differ, but someone who likes something you don’t is not a pitiable wretch scrabbling in the clay for rocks they can call gems. They just happen to like the thing. And vice versa, you may like things they don’t, and that doesn’t make them an Enemy of the State bent on destroying All That is Holy.

We’ll see how it all works out. I am disappointed in the blogs so far, if they are what was meant by “deep dives,” they’re pretty darn shallow and missing details. I had thought they’d be the foundation for forum discussion with devs weighing in to clarify things. A few devs have, spottily, but a lot of persistent questions remain unaddressed at all.

So for now we have a few overviews, and can offer praise and critiques based on them, but cannot assume we know much at all of how the discussed systems will play out in practice.

Not really, people on this forum topic are generally sensible and don’t have that much of a hate streak as you’d like to color it. There’s a reason why I stopped posting here for awhile now as it’s generally biased towards that one side.

I think they’re meant to be vague to test the waters anyway. Could avert disasters like the different commander color tags.

Dante.1763:

Yujin.1785:

Man the lengths people are willing to defend anet on these forums…

Its both funny and sad at the same time.

i will say though, that this was something that has little effect on if i buy the expansion or not. ive wanted this for a long time now, and its just another plus for something that i was already going to buy! shrugs i can see the problem people have with it, but at the same time, im even more excited for the expansion to get here! (thats just all my opinion)

I share the same sentiment with you then.

Man the lengths people are willing to defend anet on these forums…

Zaxares.5419:

Yes, I thought it was a blatantly obvious move to extend the grind-time. :P Still, I’ll be in SW for a while grinding my 3000 Bandit Crests, so if I still don’t have the Bladders by the end of it, I’ll just wait for the next chapter and the guaranteed extractors.

Actually it’s 4000 crests since you have to get 3 boots with 1g +1000 crests and Verata’s Seared Ring for 1000 crests +10g. The amount of grind is literally 2x as much as the last update. It’s probable that you would have completed the collection long before you hit 4000 crests, unless you have terrible luck.

So yeah… the grind in this episode is overkill.

Kain Francois.4328:

Is balm an exploit?

You give us a consumable which transforms ambient creatures into Trick or Treat bags, then for the FIRST instance, you throw at us 30 or so ambient creatures.

Essentially, I am making about 60s every minute. Possibly a bit less, but still around that ballpark.

I understand ArenaNet isn’t responsible for the prices players set, but is this intended? The way things are set up kinda points me in that direction, but I’m not sure.

What’s up, ArenaNet? Is this an exploit, or not?

It’s a maximum of 3 targets per toss so making it 9 per balm.

In memory of Scarlet, who sends gifts of exploding fun, and in memory to those who were banned due to mere Snowflakes. May Black Lion keys fill your dreams.

tigirius.9014:

Waiting for them to remove DR since it’s removed exactly 0 bots since they implemented it.

We all know that’s not happening.

Yargesh.4965:

Yujin.1785:

I think they must have a leeway of a few hours. No way was this person stupid enough to be screwing around with his main account.

Want to bet?

So you’re telling me that the 2 people doing it at hot join was mere coincidence? Also check this person’s achievement points from the screenie via leaderboards. They’re at a mere 33 points.

In any case, that fellow said he doesn’t have access to the TP but has access to guilds and has access to the mail.

I think they must have a leeway of a few hours. No way was this person stupid enough to be screwing around with his main account.

Palador.2170:

I don’t think the trial has started yet…

It has. I can post a screenie of at least one person doing it.

There has been a bit of a surge in people botting certain maps and use of position hacks in PvP (just to troll people) via new accounts. Is there a point to actually reporting them as these are free trial accounts anyway?

Obtena.7952:

I think that description is appropriate. Being patient for a change to obtain a precursor in a different manner is indicative of an unwillingness to put the effort in to do what everyone else has done to obtain one . Because of the position people have put themselves in, they think it should be different for them. Isn’t that what entitlement is? Expecting something because of position?

Edit* going to answer you more directly.

First, the RNG nature of obtaining a precursor itself means that I could and many others have put in just as much effort as some others who have obtained precursors luckily and have not obtained it but have at the same time waited for some change on Anet’s part.

Second, just like the article linked in the OP, we’re not asking legendaries to drop on our laps. Vayne and I had a similar discussion about this where we actually came into terms about precursor crafting. It’s not the unwillingness to not put in the effort; rather, people, just want a more concrete/tangible way of obtaining it than relying on RNG. It’s simply the fact that there are a lot of people that aren’t happy of buying off of the TP when it just came from mystic forge or from some RNG chance. Give people a way to obtain it more reliably and people will not be as dissatisfied.

We’re not asking anything unreasonable even after 2 years have passed. Calling people out as entitled even after all this is absurd especially that we’ve been patient for over 2 years with working with the system.

Obtena.7952:

Progress or not, IMO, if someone is away 5 months, owning a legendary isn’t the kind of goal they should be setting for themselves or comment on.

While I agree in principle that alternate methods of obtaining a precursor would be nice, there are many practical and conceptual reasons why I don’t think it will happen. It’s not going to be the cheap route everyone thinks it will be and people will QQ about some other aspect of the expense to get a legendary even if they could craft a precursor. Few people seem to have the forethough or open mind to see this.

No precursor crafting can last. I haven’t seen any reason why it can’t or shouldn’t except for stopping QQ from entitled players.

Yeah, I don’t think it will be cheap if they implement it since they’ve let the precursor market run freely for these 2 years.

Honestly, I’ve seen quite a number of good ideas on alternative methods on gaining one, such as getting a precursor token whenever you throw 4 exotics and gain a level 80 exotic back; a number of these tokens can then be traded for a precursor.

I really dislike it when people used the word entitled in this manner especially when some of us have been waiting patiently for these 2 years and somehow people call people out when some of want to know what is Anet’s stance on precursor crafting or when people just show their disappointment in general on the matter.

Obtena.7952:

Yujin.1785:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yujin.1785:

Ayrilana.1396:

Um… wow. Two years ago? And you think that is relevant now?

Surely nothing has changed since then. /sarcasm

He mentioned that those were their intentions more than a year ago and you asked on whether or not they really said that. He was merely answering your question (whether or not they said prices were too high or if they felt it was too high), which was true as they did feel that prices were high more than a year ago.

He’s trying to treat something stated almost two years ago as relevant to how things are now. If you look back several posts, you’ll see what prompted me to ask him.

The economy/game today is much different that that around launch time. So much as changed since then. Players have so much more money now than they did back then. The number of players trying to get their legendaries has also dramatically increased. There have also been many changes caused directly by Anet that has resulted in the prices being where they are now.

He did say that he did take a 5 month break from the game though so I guess I kind of see why he would be this disappointed.

Yeah, so much has changed since then. It’s really just waiting if Anet really wants to do anything.

I think the problem I have with that poster is he leaves for 5 months, then comes back and is all uppity and surprised he is even farther from acquiring a precursor than before. WELL … OF COURSE YOU ARE. Did he expect a precursor to be in his mailbox as a welcome back gift?

Legendaries are NOT for people who haven’t earned it. If someone goes away for 5 months, they aren’t exactly deserving of a legendary anyways.

Not going to speak for Thor but I think that if I were away for 5 months and that was roughly around the time when they said precursor crafting was delayed but is still a priority, I would have expected that some progress (in terms of development) was made by Anet giving us different ways of obtaining precursors.

I don’t think many of us are realistically expecting legendaries to drop on our laps but we just want more concrete methods for long term goals in attaining precursors other than the RNG toilet/buying off of the TP, which a lot of people don’t want to do since production of precursors is still tied down to RNG.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yujin.1785:

Ayrilana.1396:

Um… wow. Two years ago? And you think that is relevant now?

Surely nothing has changed since then. /sarcasm

He mentioned that those were their intentions more than a year ago and you asked on whether or not they really said that. He was merely answering your question (whether or not they said prices were too high or if they felt it was too high), which was true as they did feel that prices were high more than a year ago.

He’s trying to treat something stated almost two years ago as relevant to how things are now. If you look back several posts, you’ll see what prompted me to ask him.

The economy/game today is much different that that around launch time. So much as changed since then. Players have so much more money now than they did back then. The number of players trying to get their legendaries has also dramatically increased. There have also been many changes caused directly by Anet that has resulted in the prices being where they are now.

He did say that he did take a 5 month break from the game though so I guess I kind of see why he would be this disappointed.

Yeah, so much has changed since then. It’s really just waiting if Anet really wants to do anything.

Ayrilana.1396:

Um… wow. Two years ago? And you think that is relevant now?

Surely nothing has changed since then. /sarcasm

He mentioned that those were their intentions more than a year ago and you asked on whether or not they really said that. He was merely answering your question (whether or not they said prices were too high or if they felt it was too high), which was true as they did feel that prices were high more than a year ago.

Ayrilana.1396:

They stated that prices were too high? Are you sure?

Prices went up so much because of changes that ANET did.

That was a forum post almost 2 years ago during the Lost Shores. They stated that they were “monitoring the prices” of precursors (this was back at the time when things like The Chosen were ~100g-130g).

*Edit,

Thor found the post to it.

Good stuff. It’s going to make crafting of complex items much more manageable.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Yujin.1785:

Many of us have been waiting for 2 years for a change and can handle an increase in prices of t5-t6s.

What about everyone else in the game? THAT’s my point.

Again, I’m not apposed to the addition, just the attitude that no matter how it effects player not interested in a Legendary it MUST be done NOW.

What about “everyone else”? We really don’t know how far reaching the increased effects are until Anet comes out with a coherent plan. If we had to take a guess though, JS and Anet are probably going to minimize destabilization from some time gate just how AP chests were implemented or Ascended crafting. We’ve always had destabilizing forces from economic changes or updates. and no one really said anything about “everyone else” (e.g. Ascended armor crafting on “everyone else” that did not level their armor-based crafting professions to 400 prior to the change). I guess the point I’m getting at it that you really can’t worry about how much the increase in prices are until they come up with a game plan. At the very least, we know that are quite a number of people that are currently not satisfied with the precursor system for over 2 years.

That being said, it being worked on soon or some news about it being worked currently isn’t really unreasonable. People have been clamoring for some change in precursor acquisition since a few months before the Lost Shores. That’s all some of us are asking for really, especially after 2 years of waiting.

@Brother Grimm

T5-T6 increase in prices is inevitable due to how long the market has been active. Changes are bound to destabilize it just as certain changes destabilized certain items in the past (e.g. champ bags to lodestones/ ascended armor crafting on merchant priced silk).

How big the rise in prices of t5-t6 is really dependent on the nature of precursor crafting, how much of an impact that people are currently using t5-t6s in crafting exotics and rares for precursors, and how much people are willing for farm t5-t6s when precursor crafting is implemented.

Many of us have been waiting for 2 years for a change and can handle an increase in prices of t5-t6s.

Becka Williams.4978:

I can’t help but get the feeling that this is more about placating us than any real change. I’ve seen companies say “this is a whole new era. We’re going to start communicating with you now!” and the player base gets excited, and then nothing comes of it, and the company depends on the time investment to keep people playing instead of actually doing anything to change it. Look at the trait thread. Four months of silence, and then “You guys make some good points. We’re going to have some meetings.” What were you DOING for 4 months? What’s the POINT of a feedback thread if you don’t look at it for 4 months, and only then 2 weeks before your next feature patch goes live. What CONCRETE steps are you taking to communicate with us better? We don’t need more cagey answer dodging replies filled with corporate doublespeak. That’s worse than silence, because it kind of insults our intelligence when you think you can say something without really saying anything.

As for CDIs, the only thing I can see that came from the CDI was the colored commander tag, and boy, did you handle that badly. And the Dredge fractal, which only took 1.5 years of complaining about to change. I understand stuff takes time, and I also understand that you’ve been burned badly by the precursor crafting thing, but if you want people to love the game, and love the company, you can’t act like a brick wall that occasionally spits out patches, and then refuses to listen, or even worse, gets upset when we don’t play the way you want to (see the knight attack in lion’s arch thing, where you got upset when we figured out a way around your plans, and then made us play the way you wanted to.) That update had 8 patches, still the current leader, tho dragon’s reach part 1 gave it a good challenge.

I think this pretty much sums up all the skeptics on this thread. Yes, we’re thankful that Mike and Chris are now communicating; however, we’re hoping that something more meaningful comes out of all of this than what we’ve seen happen so often in the past.

Keysha.2815:

Whilst I appreciate you saying this, it is more a matter of putting your money where your mouth is. The biggest thread right now is the Trait system. And you, as a company, are conspicuously absent from it. Many other very controversial subjects, you, as a company, are very conspicuously absent from. If you want us to believe you, you need to consistently and fairly do this.

Even if you feel you cannot comment on the content of a thread, a comment stating you are reading and discussing it with others on the team, or saying an occasional ‘good point’, or ‘no, that won’t work, because’ would show interaction, that you are reading, that you are processing, and that you care. But to have a long dry spell, with little to no interaction except in a few select threads, and then post something like this, is almost condescending.

Your player base is not stupid. We know what we see, and it is diametrically opposite what you are saying. We are not children, to get a pat on the head and be told ‘everything is fine, we are doing what we should, now go play and let the adults do what they are doing.’ Yet it sounds like that.

Please, either be consistent in paying attention to us, or don’t. But do us the favor of not thinking we are stupid enough to let your words override what we see and experience. It doesn’t work that way.

Well said. If stringing us along for 2 years over other means of gaining a precursor isn’t “stringing us along” then I don’t know what is.

I hate to say this but you’re right; talk is cheap, even if it’s from the current CEO of anet.

This feature patch is out.How about….

mtpelion.4562:

Yujin.1785:

lordkrall.7241:

If you behave exactly like a bot (which based on my observation from farming trees) which about 99% of the farmers do, is it really that weird that you get handled like a bot?

You have to be the staunchest of staunch white knight defenders to be defending anet over something like this where they’re clearly on the wrong.

I don’t think you know what a “white knight” is… or defending for that matter.

lordkrall merely pointed out that when you do the actions that botters do, you’re going to be running the risk of being detected as a bot.

ArenaNet does NOT have thousands of employees watching everyone’s screens to find botters so they can ban them. They created a computer algorithm that monitors activity and issues bans automatically when the algorithm indicates a high likelihood that botting has occurred. This is industry standard as there is NO other way to do it.

Clearly, the new content combined with the existing algorithm has resulting in a lot of incorrect bans. This is not the player’s fault, nor is it ArenaNet’s fault but rather the result of unintended consequences.

You’re funny. You obviously never seen his post history and what people are trying to say about the people who got banned. I have some guildmates that were banned after just AFKing for just ~30 mins (waiting for the nodes to replenish within the hour) and got banned. They were on the map for extended periods of time but no way were they “behaving like bots” as lordkrall described.

That’s clearly pushing all the blame on the players.

lordkrall.7241:

If you behave exactly like a bot (which based on my observation from farming trees) which about 99% of the farmers do, is it really that weird that you get handled like a bot?

You have to be the staunchest of staunch white knight defenders to be defending anet over something like this where they’re clearly on the wrong.

The back part of the shield where the wielder holds it, looks very plain. Skills do not make use of the legendary weapon nor have updated graphics when the shield is thrown.

Not asking to add footfalls or auras here. Just make them up to par with what other legendaries have.

darkace.8925:

digitalruse.9085:

I actually submitted a bug report for this.

And I created a thread in the bugs sub-forum. It didn’t get a response, so I’m assuming this, for whatever reason, is intentional. Hopefully a red will explain to us the rationale behind the decision to have the half hour version require twice as much of a rare ingredient as its one hour counterpart.

You’ll probably never see a red post for something like this. At best, we might get a silent fix. The closest experience I have to something like this was from the Celestial exotic weapon and armor recipes.

Back when the Celestial recipes were initially released, learning the recipes required your character to be level 80 for some strange reason. It was only a couple updates after before they were silently fixed it. Wasn’t written on the patch notes or anything.; it was just a silent ninja patch.

Funny you should mention about opening those cans. I think they’ve done that already on some portions of the game like PvP when they implemented skyham and people abused the map to farm rank points; consequently, rank as an indicator for experience was no longer the case.

Yeah, I’m down for opening another can for the amount of time spent waiting. It could be a can of whoop-kitten for all we know.

Vayne.8563:

Yujin.1785:

Vayne.8563:

Yujin.1785:

Vayne.8563:

Yujin.1785:

Dean Calaway.9718:

And then you guys wonder how come the devs don’t post more often…

By the way, the idea of having to craft a legendary seriously needs to be dropped.
I’ve been playing since release and I don’t have any, because I don’t like any of them. I even got a precursor to drop on Jormag and I just sold the thing.

Uhh… no. Dropping it is a bad idea. Some people have been waiting since the Lost Shores when they were formulating an idea for hunting precursors. This means that some people have almost been waiting for 2 years to change the means of obtaining precursors so it’s understandable why you’d get such a reaction from some players.

I don’t think the suggestion here is to drop the precursor crafting. I think the poster is saying people should drop the idea of having to have a legendary at all. He’s saying you can enjoy this game and never get a legendary. You don’t really need one to do anything.

Some people have made this game about the legendary and nothing else. For those people, they’re seriously gimping their enjoyment of the game, because they’re basing their entire enjoyment of the game on obtaining a single item.

Of course, no one can tell anyone else how to play, but if you stop thinking in terms of I must have a legendary and just put that in the back of your mind as a very long term goal, the game doesn’t really change.

My son got his legendary and stopped playing. Shrugs.

How should I say this… It sort of gives you a more concrete direction in order to reach that long term goal if there were some other method other than the RNG toilet. I know some people say farm gold and just buy off of the TP but it just doesn’t suit a lot of people to be doing that.

Oh, I absolutely think that we need a better way to get precusors that have nothing to do with RNG. I’ve said this for ages. It’s long, long overdue.

I never said otherwise. I was just saying I think that the post I was replying to misinterpreted the post before it. I don’t think anyone is saying Anet should abandon precursor crafting.

We’re on the same page then. I guess the other point that I wanted to say on the first post is that people that are ranting on the forums about precursor crafting have a good reason for doing so, especially if they’ve been playing since launch.

Long overdue feels like an understatement as of this point.

I don’t think most people think about how very important this change has to be handled. It’s going to affect more than just precusor prices. It might very well drive T6 mat prices sky high, for example, as more people will need them once more people have precusors. We could end up with a situation where all the T6 mats you need will become as expensive as a precusor is now, or even more.

Anet had something started, but changes to the game made what they were working on not viable.

I’m pretty sure the angry people would be even more angry if they could craft their precusor only to find out they couldn’t afford to make their legendary anyway.

This is not a quick fix, no matter what people think. And since the rest of the game is in the process of changing, the fix has to be very carefully handled.

Yeah, there are fears about that but I’d rather have that than our current system. It’s also the fact they keep removing farms for those mats as well (e.g. DR on killing monsters, lowering the amount of area you can farm barracudas on Southsun on the feature patch, spider nerf on Orr a long time ago, etc.).

Personally as well, I don’t think T6 would go up by a lot. We’re already spending T5 and T6s fine mats crafting rare and exotic weapons just to throw into the forge.

Vayne.8563:

Yujin.1785:

Vayne.8563:

Yujin.1785:

Dean Calaway.9718:

And then you guys wonder how come the devs don’t post more often…

By the way, the idea of having to craft a legendary seriously needs to be dropped.
I’ve been playing since release and I don’t have any, because I don’t like any of them. I even got a precursor to drop on Jormag and I just sold the thing.

Uhh… no. Dropping it is a bad idea. Some people have been waiting since the Lost Shores when they were formulating an idea for hunting precursors. This means that some people have almost been waiting for 2 years to change the means of obtaining precursors so it’s understandable why you’d get such a reaction from some players.

I don’t think the suggestion here is to drop the precursor crafting. I think the poster is saying people should drop the idea of having to have a legendary at all. He’s saying you can enjoy this game and never get a legendary. You don’t really need one to do anything.

Some people have made this game about the legendary and nothing else. For those people, they’re seriously gimping their enjoyment of the game, because they’re basing their entire enjoyment of the game on obtaining a single item.

Of course, no one can tell anyone else how to play, but if you stop thinking in terms of I must have a legendary and just put that in the back of your mind as a very long term goal, the game doesn’t really change.

My son got his legendary and stopped playing. Shrugs.

How should I say this… It sort of gives you a more concrete direction in order to reach that long term goal if there were some other method other than the RNG toilet. I know some people say farm gold and just buy off of the TP but it just doesn’t suit a lot of people to be doing that.

Oh, I absolutely think that we need a better way to get precusors that have nothing to do with RNG. I’ve said this for ages. It’s long, long overdue.

I never said otherwise. I was just saying I think that the post I was replying to misinterpreted the post before it. I don’t think anyone is saying Anet should abandon precursor crafting.

We’re on the same page then. I guess the other point that I wanted to say on the first post is that people that are ranting on the forums about precursor crafting have a good reason for doing so, especially if they’ve been playing since launch.

Long overdue feels like an understatement as of this point.

Vayne.8563:

Yujin.1785:

Dean Calaway.9718:

And then you guys wonder how come the devs don’t post more often…

By the way, the idea of having to craft a legendary seriously needs to be dropped.
I’ve been playing since release and I don’t have any, because I don’t like any of them. I even got a precursor to drop on Jormag and I just sold the thing.

Uhh… no. Dropping it is a bad idea. Some people have been waiting since the Lost Shores when they were formulating an idea for hunting precursors. This means that some people have almost been waiting for 2 years to change the means of obtaining precursors so it’s understandable why you’d get such a reaction from some players.

I don’t think the suggestion here is to drop the precursor crafting. I think the poster is saying people should drop the idea of having to have a legendary at all. He’s saying you can enjoy this game and never get a legendary. You don’t really need one to do anything.

Some people have made this game about the legendary and nothing else. For those people, they’re seriously gimping their enjoyment of the game, because they’re basing their entire enjoyment of the game on obtaining a single item.

Of course, no one can tell anyone else how to play, but if you stop thinking in terms of I must have a legendary and just put that in the back of your mind as a very long term goal, the game doesn’t really change.

My son got his legendary and stopped playing. Shrugs.

How should I say this… It sort of gives you a more concrete direction in order to reach that long term goal if there were some other method other than the RNG toilet. I know some people say farm gold and just buy off of the TP but it just doesn’t suit a lot of people to be doing that.

Dean Calaway.9718:

And then you guys wonder how come the devs don’t post more often…

By the way, the idea of having to craft a legendary seriously needs to be dropped.
I’ve been playing since release and I don’t have any, because I don’t like any of them. I even got a precursor to drop on Jormag and I just sold the thing.

Uhh… no. Dropping it is a bad idea. Some people have been waiting since the Lost Shores when they were formulating an idea for hunting precursors. This means that some people have almost been waiting for 2 years to change the means of obtaining precursors so it’s understandable why you’d get such a reaction from some players.

Admittedly, it is a hard counter against thieves and mesmers (rangers as well but we all know it’s broke right now), unless your team rotates properly.

I understand the frustration and it’s like the same issue with dealing with thieves and eles that destroy your treb. If they keep destroying it, does it mean that I keep repairing it?

@Arantheal

We never generally pick them up in battle since they have the ability to heal themselves to full health with auto tool installation. Sure, if I have to move to another point and if they’re along the way I’ll pick them up.. Just not in battle as the benefit for picking them up is severely lacking.

Yeah, the build is strong against Mesmers and Thieves. In fact, they can only stand toe to toe in Khylo on the Treb and some portions of the CT due to blinks and shadow stepping but good placement of the turrets makes their life hell.

Wanze.8410:

Yujin.1785:

Wanze.8410:

Yujin.1785:

I think they need to make the prickly pear recipe use 1 pear for the 30 min version and 2 for the 60 min version considering the low drop rate of pears from cacti.

As for the nopale, 2 and 4 would have been alright. As it stands, there are a lot different level 80 foods that use level 400 food crafting materials. The effects of these dry top recipes don’t really warrant the amount of time and effort placed into making them. Orrian Steak Frittes and Koi Cakes for everyone!

I you havent noticed, we are running out of koi cakes. Sonder the Seller, who until the Bazaar arrived was trading 5 zhaitaffy for 1 koi cake in Vigil Keep, was nowhere to be found when everybody moved back into LA. People suspect that he was traveling with the Zepphyrites and we all know how that ended.

We went from over 500k supply in February to less than10k now.

Chop, chop!

What are you talking about? He’s in the middle of LA near the Lion statue

Nice! He wasnt there during the 6 weeks of the bazaar, they must have patched him in on Tuesday. Luckily, i bought 100 stacks of Zhaitaffy for 15c 2 weeks ago. Im off to sell those 75 copper Koi Cakes now…

Happy clicking.

Wanze.8410:

Yujin.1785:

I think they need to make the prickly pear recipe use 1 pear for the 30 min version and 2 for the 60 min version considering the low drop rate of pears from cacti.

As for the nopale, 2 and 4 would have been alright. As it stands, there are a lot different level 80 foods that use level 400 food crafting materials. The effects of these dry top recipes don’t really warrant the amount of time and effort placed into making them. Orrian Steak Frittes and Koi Cakes for everyone!

I you havent noticed, we are running out of koi cakes. Sonder the Seller, who until the Bazaar arrived was trading 5 zhaitaffy for 1 koi cake in Vigil Keep, was nowhere to be found when everybody moved back into LA. People suspect that he was traveling with the Zepphyrites and we all know how that ended.

We went from over 500k supply in February to less than10k now.

Chop, chop!

What are you talking about? He’s in the middle of LA near the Lion statue

I think they need to make the prickly pear recipe use 1 pear for the 30 min version and 2 for the 60 min version considering the low drop rate of pears from cacti.

As for the nopale, 2 and 4 would have been alright. As it stands, there are a lot different level 80 foods that use level 400 food crafting materials. The effects of these dry top recipes don’t really warrant the amount of time and effort placed into making them. Orrian Steak Frittes and Koi Cakes for everyone!

Prickly Pear Stuffed Nopale (30 min) and Bowl of Sweet and Spicy Beans – +40% Condition Duration +70 Power. I think there’s an error/bug in the prickly pear stuffed nopale recipe. For some strange reason, the Prickly Pear Stuffed Nopale uses 5 nopales and 20 prickly pears. The 1 hour version only uses 10 prickly pears.

Bowl of Prickly Pear Sorbet and Plate of Roasted Cactus – Another one that has an error, I think. Both of these recipes gives ferocity and might on critical; however, the 30 min version actually has lower stats than the 60 min version unlike all the other food recipes. It lacks 20 ferocity and 5% might on critical.

Nopale Recipes:

Black Pepper Cactus Salad and Bowl of Cactus Salad – Health regen +70 Toughness. Like a mango pie except toughness. Both of these recipes are expensive so they aren’t worth it.

Loaf of Candy Cactus Cornbread and Bowl of Nopalitos Saute – 70 toughness + 20% Boon Duration. Both aren’t that expensive but I think the Candy Cactus Cornbread (30 min version) is the winner since it give sugar rush. Only food that increases boon duration with a combat stat so maybe there’s a build that might make use of it???

Prickly Pear ingredients:

Prickly Pear Pie (3o min) and Bowl of Cactus Fruit Salad (1hr) – 40% cond duration and life steal. The prickly pear pie is easier and more efficient since it doesn’t use omnom berries. Then again, why use this when we have koi cakes????

Prickly Pear Stuffed Nopale (30 min) and Bowl of Sweet and Spicy Beans - +40% Condition Duration +70 Power. I think there’s an error/bug in the prickly pear stuffed nopale recipe. For some strange reason, the Prickly pear stuffed nopale uses 5 nopales and 20 prickly pears. The 1 hour version only uses 10 prickly pears.

Bowl of Prickly Pear Sorbet and Plate of Roasted Cactus – Another one that has an error, I think. Both of these recipes gives ferocity and might on critical; however, the 30 min version actually has lower stats than the 60 min version unlike all the other food recipes. It lacks 20 ferocity and 5% might on critical. Other than this, this food is excellent for might stacking.

@arantheal

Oxstar is right about not picking up the turrets. You’re better off trying to win a point in a team battle than trying to pick up your turrets if they are placed out of the way.

Another thing that should be mentioned as well is that turrets aren’t usually placed too far from a battle as much as possible. the range of experimental turrets is 600 range so if a pure turret engineer decides to make the full use of RTB rifle turret and RTB rocket turrets, the team doesn’t get the buffs.

@Thiefz

Aside from the combat weaknesses of CC and conditions on the build, another downside is that it’s also hard to rotate with a turret engineer. Don’t expect your turret engineer teammate to decap the far point and leave.

Well, we’re halfway through 2014. Precursor crafting at 2015? I remember back when they were cooking up ideas for the scavenger hunt during the lost shores.

Drafigo.4690:

Yujin.1785:

Anymras.5729:

Yujin.1785:

@Anymras

*Edit

I think there’s something off with the numbers. Checking on the PvP area, it’s
Rifle Turret: 476
Flame Turret: 127
Rocket Turret: 1429
Thumper Turret: 635

base damage without RTB on Heavy armored golems.

I think I pretty much just used the numbers in the wiki to run the math, rather than actually testing per-shot damage on the golems (due to then having to qualify what armor level the damage is calculated against, or calculate against all three armor types), so some inaccuracy wouldn’t be terribly unexpected. What is kind of unexpected is Rocket Turret dealing more damage, given most of these numbers being lower; which armor type were these showing up against?

These numbers were appearing on Heavy armor golems per shot. The wiki is terribly off in terms of base damage for some of the turrets.

260% increase from the wiki for the rifle, rocket, and thumper turret.

The damage per shot of the auto attack for the Rifle’s Hip shot is an average of 460, while the Pistol’s auto attack is 220ish without bleeding damage. These numbers were taken on heavy armor, traited into the vitality and toughness line and using celestial gear.

I hate to say it but the numbers are really way off on your post.

Just looking at these numbers isn’t going to give you an accurate count. You are forgetting several factors.

1. Cast time
2. turrets fire rate/ Cast time. Each turret has slower or faster casting time
3. if destroyed each turret has a slow reset time

Rocket turret fires at a slower rate then rife turret for example. Nothing wrong with the damage, Each turret is different from casting time to duration. Turrets are really not that strong.

That wasn’t the point of the post. Anymras’ base numbers are way off (Turrets and pistol/rifle auto attack since he said that he was completely naked) and he already calculated their rate of fire. Cast time is negligible. I agree with point 3, which a lot of people whining about the build forget to realize.

Anymras.5729:

Yujin.1785:

@Anymras

*Edit

I think there’s something off with the numbers. Checking on the PvP area, it’s
Rifle Turret: 476
Flame Turret: 127
Rocket Turret: 1429
Thumper Turret: 635

base damage without RTB on Heavy armored golems.

I think I pretty much just used the numbers in the wiki to run the math, rather than actually testing per-shot damage on the golems (due to then having to qualify what armor level the damage is calculated against, or calculate against all three armor types), so some inaccuracy wouldn’t be terribly unexpected. What is kind of unexpected is Rocket Turret dealing more damage, given most of these numbers being lower; which armor type were these showing up against?

These numbers were appearing on Heavy armor golems per shot. The wiki is terribly off in terms of base damage for some of the turrets.

260% increase from the wiki for the rifle, rocket, and thumper turret.

The damage per shot of the auto attack for the Rifle’s Hip shot is an average of 460, while the Pistol’s auto attack is 220ish without bleeding damage. These numbers were taken on heavy armor, traited into the vitality and toughness line and using celestial gear.

I hate to say it but the numbers are really way off on your post.

@Anymras

*Edit

I think there’s something off with the numbers. Checking on the PvP area, it’s
Rifle Turret: 476
Flame Turret: 127
Rocket Turret: 1429
Thumper Turret: 635

base damage without RTB on Heavy armored golems.

Thanks for the replies. Honestly guys, the amount of qqing and misinformation being spread about turret engies (and engineers in general) in the sPvP portion of of these forums has gotten absurd.

It’s a very real possibility that turrets may be toned down much like how spirit rangers were nerfed, which is incredibly annoying for me since it’s only now that turrets have gotten viable in a single game mode after waiting for almost 2 years.

Background info:

People in the sPvP part of these forums seem to be complaining on variants of this engineer build as of late and most seem to have a very poor understanding of the traits involved in the builds and how they function. Generally, there are two main variants:

Rifled Turret Barrels GM – Focuses support and added DPS on a point with Experimental Turrets GM. Tries to keep turrets alive

Fortified Turrets GM- Always brings the accelerated packaged turrets and rotates skill usage of turrets ASAP for knock backs and reflects.

The Point of this Discussion:

Do you guys think that people complaining about these builds are warranted? I think most people complain about the CC produced on the Fortified Turrets centred build more than the other build although there are come complaints about the added DPS produced by the other build as well. Personally, I’ve seen people on Soloq ignore the turrets a lot of the time and scramble around when turrets with the Fortified Turrets trait pop out.

Since a lot of guys here on these parts of the forum understand the class more than others, what do you guys think about this issue in sPvP? More of a l2p issue or tweaks to lower DPS on turrets or place an internal cool down on Accelerated Packaged Turrets?

TheDevice.2751:

@Yujin: I asked for a second time not because I couldn’t read it or understand it.. I was making sure that that is what he wanted to say and gave him a chance to change what he said. I’ve read both of your comments through.

None of what you said really shows in length how the two classes are balanced to one another… aside from “certain builds offer certain things”. My point isn’t that I disagree with that, it’s that when you actually look at what you’re saying, you yourself are not taking into account everything

In your example about spike damage in lich form (which is a common complaint for some reason), this can occur only once every 3 minutes during a match and if you have played a power necro you’d also note that its usually even longer in between based on the conditions you face. So what I’m saying is that you are being more black and white about the balance than I am.

@Thiefz: I understand that necro’s can use stability and at a higher rate than even most classes.. Thats not even the issue. The issue is that the stability, where it is located as far as build, is pretty useless. First of all, its not a stun breaker, which is pretty important. Secondly, If you were to actually use your DS in that way then that’s literally all you’re doing in that build. So this makes that non-viable.

I’d also like to point out that using the stealth pot is easily splashable in a turret build since I’ve seen plenty of turret engi’s include it in theirs.

We also left out invulnerability which is pretty important not only for survivability but also stomping and reviving.

I am well aware of the aspects that relate to the mechanics themselves and I simply feel that even a small allowance even to something like invulnerability is lightyears ahead of a class, like a necro, who do not possess something similar.

First and again, don’t mention about balance. I’m not going to talk about it since I don’t feel like discussing it with you. Not subjugating myself to more dribbling and quibbling than what you’re already providing. Thiefz already provided concrete answers and yet you dismiss the fact that Engineers can’t be every thing at the same time in a given match. You’re treating the engineer as some imaginary class that can bring everything into battle all at once but as thiefz and other people mentioned require to go into specific builds. It’s like saying that a diamond skin ele can ignore conditions while doing a lot of DPS.

With regards to the lich form, I have traited it properly and I can tell you it can crit warriors for 3.5k-4k per shot when used properly and turn a battle on a point around very quickly. Saying that it’s once every 3 minutes is like complaining that supply crates is also once every 3 minutes as well.

You’re free to disagree what people are saying; regardless, I’m done discussing things with you. I know for a fact that you’re just going to go on and on without understanding what people are saying, while perpetuating the engineer as some mythical class that brings everything for their party or team. Suppose you got bored about bashing on thieves and warriors, while praising the necro based on your post history?

Oh and finally, you’re telling Thiefz that turret engineers have Elixir S? That’s hilarious and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Please L2P (seriously little soloq history and no team q history), L2 read and L2 write (barely understandable with incoherent arguments). Thanks.

TheDevice.2751:

I actually asked a second time to confirm that this is what they lacked so it’s not as if I ignored the answer to my question.

Having access to things like invulnerability, blocks, stealth, regen, vigor, etc to in fact matter imho. And I’m not the least bit surprised that the dev’s noticed that they are lacking in condition cleansing and want to fix it… this is proving my point from the very beginning.

Engineers are the most catered class. Let’s just have a small example of what the necromancers lack:
Vigor, stealth, invuln, escapes/leaps/teleports, stability, blocks.. the list goes on.

So after all that.. I’ll even agree that there is more to the balance than simply listing what a class can do because we’re talking about the entire spectrum here right…

So give me some examples of how this is all fair and balanced. Why are engi’s allowed to have most if not all of those things I listed above while necromancers are denied them? You can give any bit of relevant answer from timers, to counters, to other classes mechanics/traits or anything you like. I’d like to hear it.

Asking a second time? Do you honestly read what you write?

We already mentioned this. Having access to things doesn’t necessarily mean they’re good at it. It’s like comparing an engineer’s capability to do spike damage in comparison the a necro using lich form and spectral build. It’s how even if engineers have access to some stun breaks and cleansing when they’re not as useful as other classes. Engineers are always described to be the jack of all trades but the master of none so to speak.

Don’t know how to answer you even further. I feel like beating a dead horse here. Please take the time to read and understand what people are trying to tell you.

TheDevice.2751:

Yujin.1785:

TheDevice.2751:

Yujin.1785:

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah L2P they’re not op.. Only..

Anyways about engineers.. They are the Dev class. They will never be nerfed or lack anything.

ANSWER THIS!! I’ve asked this question about 40 times on these forums yet people seem to dodge the question as best they can..
——What do engineers LACK? What do that HAVE?

After you’ve answered that question.. I’ll get back to you.

“Never be nerfed…?” Engineers have been nerfed several times like AR and nades has seen numerous nerfs already (the most recent being the poison grenade).

Depends on what you mean by “lack”. It’s like saying that everyone has stun breaks but the Engineer doesn’t have reliable/good stun breaks. Condition cleansing? Yeah, you have Elixir C, Cleaning Formula, and the Healing Turret but getting condition spammed too many times kills the engineer.

Ok you dodged the question as people usually do

Its not hard… Name all the things that an engineer cannot do or does not have. It’s not hard. What don’t they have access to? They don’t have reliable/good stun breaks.. Is that it? I already know the answer to this question.. I simply like to see how creative engineers respond to it without revealing the obvious truth.

So.. is that it? Not so reliable stun-breakers? Cuz if that’s all I’ll start to tell you what a necromancer lacks.. It’s really easy when you’re honest about it lol.

I play different classes and I know there are varying degrees of strengths and weaknesses relative to one another. As Aberrant said, it’s not black and white. You think no one is giving you a straight answer because you’re not accepting what people are trying to say.

Before you start accusing me of “dodging” the issue look at yourself. You don’t play any other class aside from necro: http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/TheDevice2751
This leads me to believe that you have a poor understanding of what engineers can do and what their weak points are.

You haven’t even given an abstract answer aside from “its not black and white” or “I play other classes also”.

That doesn’t mean a whole lot especially when your second argument is that you have a deeper understanding of balance… Where’s your proof? You havent said anything. I reallly don’t have to play engineer for too long to understand its strengths.. that’s also why there is a wiki.

So tell me.. How exactly is an engineer balanced? Just give some examples I’ll respond to you. So if its not so black and white how can you say it is a balanced class or even build?

I haven’t even said how its unbalanced I simply asked what the class lacks as far as mechanics offered to classes… And nobody wants to answer that question.

First off, I have never mentioned anything about balance. You only brought this into the conversation right now. Heck even your first post doesn’t even mention the word balance:

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah L2P they’re not op.. Only..

When you play tpvp there are only 3 prof to choose from
1. Engineer (cuz they’re always broke as hell. They have everything.
2. Warrior (dev’s also like warriors now. So they are ez win.)
3. Thief (dev’s always liked thieves. They hate to nerf them. Invis has no limit)

Then when you feel a bit like mixing it up and taking a chance
Guard (yeah.. they can do work. Far better siphons than necromancers, far better sustain and far better everything else)
Ele (yeah they’re buffed a bit now so they can be fun to play

DO NOT> I REPEAT.. DO NOT PLAY A NECROMANCER
unless you play a MM and pretty much barely keep up

Anyways about engineers.. They are the Dev class. They will never be nerfed or lack anything.

ANSWER THIS!! I’ve asked this question about 40 times on these forums yet people seem to dodge the question as best they can..
——What do engineers LACK? What do that HAVE?

After you’ve answered that question.. I’ll get back to you.

Second, me and Aberrant already gave a concrete answer in terms of the engineer’s weakness or your question to what they “lack”. Engies do not have good access to condition cleansing (unless fully traited to a line) and are susceptible to CC especially after they nerfed Elixir R.

TheDevice.2751:

Yujin.1785:

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah L2P they’re not op.. Only..

Anyways about engineers.. They are the Dev class. They will never be nerfed or lack anything.

ANSWER THIS!! I’ve asked this question about 40 times on these forums yet people seem to dodge the question as best they can..
——What do engineers LACK? What do that HAVE?

After you’ve answered that question.. I’ll get back to you.

“Never be nerfed…?” Engineers have been nerfed several times like AR and nades has seen numerous nerfs already (the most recent being the poison grenade).

Depends on what you mean by “lack”. It’s like saying that everyone has stun breaks but the Engineer doesn’t have reliable/good stun breaks. Condition cleansing? Yeah, you have Elixir C, Cleaning Formula, and the Healing Turret but getting condition spammed too many times kills the engineer.

Ok you dodged the question as people usually do

Its not hard… Name all the things that an engineer cannot do or does not have. It’s not hard. What don’t they have access to? They don’t have reliable/good stun breaks.. Is that it? I already know the answer to this question.. I simply like to see how creative engineers respond to it without revealing the obvious truth.

So.. is that it? Not so reliable stun-breakers? Cuz if that’s all I’ll start to tell you what a necromancer lacks.. It’s really easy when you’re honest about it lol.

I play different classes and I know there are varying degrees of strengths and weaknesses relative to one another. As Aberrant said, it’s not black and white. You think no one is giving you a straight answer because you’re not accepting what people are trying to say.

Before you start accusing me of “dodging” the issue look at yourself. You don’t play any other class aside from necro: http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/TheDevice2751
This leads me to believe that you have a poor understanding of what engineers can do and what their weak points are.

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah L2P they’re not op.. Only..

Anyways about engineers.. They are the Dev class. They will never be nerfed or lack anything.

ANSWER THIS!! I’ve asked this question about 40 times on these forums yet people seem to dodge the question as best they can..
——What do engineers LACK? What do that HAVE?

After you’ve answered that question.. I’ll get back to you.

“Never be nerfed…?” Engineers have been nerfed several times like AR and nades has seen numerous nerfs already (the most recent being the poison grenade).

Depends on what you mean by “lack”. It’s like saying that everyone has stun breaks but the Engineer doesn’t have reliable/good stun breaks. Condition cleansing? Yeah, you have Elixir C, Cleaning Formula, and the Healing Turret but getting condition spammed too many times kills the engineer.