Just a reminder, don’t lump together 3kit engi and turret engi and say that engi’s are over powered. I have read through all 3 pages and I continually read people saying that “engi has cc, condition, blocks, invuln, breaks, healing, condition clear” which is obviously not true if you knew the builds.
We know the builds……….. come on now get off that denial train.
As a top 150 soloQ player i dread nothing more than facing an engie on a point. 1v1 will be no contest unless there is a huge player discrepancy.
Even IF necro counters engie, engies counter everyone else! Especially when fighting on point.
“but but… there is more to SPVP than nodes!”
- As long as SPVP is conquest based, this issue will persist. If you lose 2-3 nodes like this, you lose the game.
“Mes too counters engie!”
- Hardly, mes, a class with minimal condi removal stands no chance vs one of the classes with the highest condie pressures and ways to directly negate your burst
“Bring a friend!”
- Sure! and you end up getting crushed at middle and getting rolled over for the next 3 min till everyone is back together. Or you lose the fight for tranquility. In any case, this is not the solution.
You cannot have strong CC, invuls, 3s blocks, extremly strong condi pressure and turrets (which act as CC, damage and healing indipendent of the player)
Warriors got hammered because they could spam CC/AoE on everyone like no tomorrow. Do you really think you are gonna get away with the current status of the class?
Just on rangers vs engi…Rangers can beat engi. I’ve done it, and seen it done, unless you are a total noob. And Ele vs Engi, it depends on what the ele is running. D/D? fairly even. Staff? Favor ele vs engi any day of the week.
Lets face it bud. You have very limited experience playing this game with and against top players. As a result your perception of all the classes in this game is extremely skewed. I strongly believe that games should be balanced from the top down. In other words, balancing should take place at the highest level of play. Mesmer is at a distinct advantage when facing engineer in 5v5 conquest. Ask any TOP mesmer (Helseth, Supcutie etc) how they feel about fighting engis. I think the main problem you currently face is that your mechanical skill is not quite high enough for you to fight engis. I know this is a problem that many people face and that it can be very difficult to deal with this. Sorry. But both Mesmer and Necro are at a distinct advantage vs Engineer. Thief when played flawlessly, is able to beat anything 1v1 (Sizer/Toker get close at S/D Acro). Ele goes even. To say that you cant fight an engineer on point is silly. Leave a portal and use your mobility to burst mid, what can he do??? OR simply fight off node (while he is on it)… see what happens…. But honestly, your opinion seems very based around an underlying Player Skill Issue.
Where is the competition in this game? Same 5 guilds playing?
Let me teach you a little about what real competition looks like. I was top player in NA in GW1. You can go look me up in GW1 memorial. In gw1 we had thousands of guilds competing every night. So, everybody who was at the top was good. You can’t tell with the little competition you got here who is actually good. Hey, I don’t blame people for not wanting to try hard. There’s no incentive to form a team and be competitive. Real competitions has thousands of teams, not 5 guilds………..trying hard. Also it’s funny what you said, when my zulu guild was still playing I’m pretty sure we destroyed you and Aeroxe every night. Mr top player……….. LOL
Ele vs Necro is even, just like Ele vs Engi is pretty even too. But engi hard counters everbody else after that. We have 8 profession, you only get hard counter by 1(necro). So you see, it is a good thing to point out regarding how OP the engi is. He’s able to hard counter everybody else except Necro. Perma swiftness, Supply crate, Gear shield 16 sec cd traited + exilir S, 5 sec stealth, IP, balthazar runes, strength runes, celestial Amulet. Best 2v1 class in the game, gets away with so much crap. So yes overpowered by a lot.
Actually engi has multiple hard counters and some soft ones. SF ele and necro hard counters, condition ranger is pretty good soft counter. All those evades +high condi burst with wolf fear and multiple immob options make them a pain to deal with.
Then you have specs that can have 50/50 chance celest else dd or staff. Celest might bow/x wars can do alright though odds are a bit towards engi in straight up 1v1, but wars are just as impactful in team fights.
Also I could easily argue that a mes+thief comp is stronger than double engine comp. Lots of hyperbole in this thread.
S/F ele has no sustain to even compete vs a good engi.They sure can be a pain to deal with, because of swirling winds and magnetic wave. But there’s counter play to swirling wind, like magnetic pull. And just landing a few nades kills the ele. Survival ranger has strong condi application and entangle, but a celestial rifle engi will make quick work of that. Jump shot, Bunderbuss, Grenade barrage can all one shot entangle.
Actually double engi can be problematic for thief/mes comp.
Ele vs Necro is even, just like Ele vs Engi is pretty even too. But engi hard counters everbody else after that. We have 8 profession, you only get hard counter by 1(necro). So you see, it is a good thing to point out regarding how OP the engi is. He’s able to hard counter everybody else except Necro. Perma swiftness, Supply crate, Gear shield 16 sec cd traited + exilir S, 5 sec stealth, IP, balthazar runes, strength runes, celestial Amulet. Best 2v1 class in the game, gets away with so much crap. So yes overpowered by a lot.
You are not good at comparing things.
Ele and Necro don’t even have 1 hard counter. They are able to go even or are favored in pretty much every matchup I can think of. Maybe not Necro vs. Meditation Guard?
Engineer simply has no chance vs. Necro and in my opinion, at the highest level, at a disadvantage against Ele and Entangle Rangers. Engineers go even with Mesmers, and are advantaged against Guardians, Thieves, Warriors.
Is it not just common sense that your argument is bad, in which Engineer ‘only’ has one hard counter and supposedly wrecks everything else, when it’s more accurate to say Engineer has the third best overall matchups out of 8 professions, at best?
Either way, 1v1 matchups are only one dimension of a profession’s ability, but I think it’s pretty clear that Engineer is not out of line in this one dimension, given it’s variously advantaged against 3 professions meta builds, variously disadvantaged against 3 professions meta builds, and anyone’s game, with the last two. Honestly, I think based on a person’s discretion, it could be said that it’s anyone’s game for Engineer against more professions.
LOL, Everything I said is the truth. Your only hard counter is Necro, Ele vs Engi is pretty even. But there’s no point in continuing this argument with you, saying that engis go even with mesmers it’s a nice joke lol. If you lose to a mes on a point you just got out played hard. Mesmer has no condi removal, just auto attacks from pistol procs IP and mes dies. if you lose to a condi ranger you’re just bad. I know engi is op, and everybody elses knows it too. You can argue all you want, but the truth is engis is OP and has been OP for ages.
As someone who is literally playing every single class in the game on my main account…
Id say the OP is both biased and tunnelvisioning something HE struggles with. Mesmer is actually quite decent vs engi unless the engi is condi + gets a good condiburst off.
But tbh after 10.000 soloq games where u arent able to maintain top 100/200 on an incredibly weak NA ladder (where everyone outside the top 50 is literally on par with hotjoiners) I would probably be frustrated and start blaming outside factors aswell. Or maybe that is the reason why youre struggling….
Dont get me wrong engis are good. But its a pretty equal fight vs a lot of meta builds.
Lol don’t bringing kitten t e r s boards into this plz, everybody knows they’re broken.
Ele vs Necro is even, just like Ele vs Engi is pretty even too. But engi hard counters everbody else after that. We have 8 profession, you only get hard counter by 1(necro). So you see, it is a good thing to point out regarding how OP the engi is. He’s able to hard counter everybody else except Necro. Perma swiftness, Supply crate, Gear shield 16 sec cd traited + exilir S, 5 sec stealth, IP, balthazar runes, strength runes, celestial Amulet. Best 2v1 class in the game, gets away with so much crap. So yes overpowered by a lot.
lol If you ran out things to say, then get back at me when you you’re stop being in DENIAL. You’re class is op, everbody knows it, even you.
As you tell me that I’m ‘in denial’ for the third time.. or that I’m sensitive, ‘pahetic’, paranoid, lmao. Don’t project your problems onto me. :P
Here’s my perspective on picks for conquest, and what’s more essential. This is where I feel ’what’s OP’ is more easily gleaned because this is what the game is balanced around. When you’re picking a strong comp in NA, Step 1: Get a really good Elementalist. Step 2: Get a good Necromancer (these are almost unicorns), Step 3: Get a really good Thief. Step 4: Pick the last 3 people on the team in this ideal order, but over-rided by what they main: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, Ranger.
In my opinion, Engineer is a top pick but not in overpowered territory for a couple reasons.
Severely hard countered by Necromancer. RIP TCG with an Engi vs. that double condition Necro duo in today’s G4cup. RIP Oeggs and Five Gauge when Nos (necro) was on his game during the last 2/3 G4cups.
Engi doesn’t have the advantage against D/D Ele on a side point.
I don’t want to oversimplify the Engineer, but these are two big reasons why Engineer can’t just easily poop all over a team.
Every profession has hard counters. Thief hard counters Mes, Engi hard counters thief, war, and pretty much everybody except Necro. Engi vs Ele is pretty even IMHO. Try playing a Mes with 0 condi removal in a meta where everybody does condi dmg. So you see you have it easy.
Lol Engi is meta……. it doesn’t matter how many your bring, they’re op as hell. But don’t worry, I’m sure “Grouch” will protect your class from nerfs. LMAO
Well I am just happy at least that you ditched the argument that ‘Engies r op cuz everybody takes 2 engies, remember when other professions were op and they took 2 of that class too?’
LOL, again putting words in my mouth. I’ve never said engis are op because ppl run 2. You’re pahetic, sensitive and in denial. PZzzzzzzz
Ppl running double engi, double ele. You call that balanced, stacking the same professions? The same thing when warrriors were super op and spirit rangers, stacking those ham/bows…
Where did I said they’re oP because they run 2?? I never said they’re op because they run two in there………. lol If you ran out things to say, then get back at me when you stop being in DENIAL. You’re class is op, everbody knows it, even you.
Lol Engi is meta……. it doesn’t matter how many your bring, they’re op as hell. But don’t worry, I’m sure “Grouch” will protect your class from nerfs. LMAO
Well I am just happy at least that you ditched the argument that ‘Engies r op cuz everybody takes 2 engies, remember when other professions were op and they took 2 of that class too?’
LOL, again putting words in my mouth. I’ve never said engis are op because ppl run 2. You’re pahetic, sensitive and in denial. PZzzzzzzz
Yeah okay because those guys on that team are doing it, it must be the new meta, and for that to happen, it must be overpowered. Engies must be overpowered. That logic.
I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth. You’re not the only ones doing it.
This is what I am joking with you about. The fact that you knew what team I’m on and what comp I run. Lol.
But I have no interest in “starting drama, bringing my pals into it, or being paranoid.” I just wanted to let you know that you are wrong about double Engi being popular/meta Which I think I have sufficiently done.
I know because I heard it from one of my friends, not because I care what team you’re on. Lol Engi is meta……. it doesn’t matter how many your bring, they’re op as hell. But don’t worry, I’m sure “Grouch” will protect your class from nerfs. LMAO
I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth.
Whatever you say, pal. Your comment was 100% a reference to The Abjured after the Go4cup tonight.
The Dankening, Boreal, SlipperyDingoWranglers, Radioactive, Sharks with Lazers, the Absurd…
Nobody is running double Engi. I’m also telling you it’s not ideal, as well. Lmfao. It’s only ideal for us because Nos can’t go to china and we have 2 Engi mains.
So yes, you saying that double Engi in the same breath as ‘double Ele is pushing Guardian out of the meta’ is pretty wrong.
You’re not the only ones doing it. Players have been running double engi and double d/d since the runes and sigil change. And you don’t need to explain to me anything about strategy, I know the reason why they choose ele over guard. This is not the first time we’ve seen players running double d/d eles, we saw the same thing back at launch.
No, this is actually the first time in the history of GW2 that Guardians have not been a meta choice on NA. There may have been double Ele, but there never has been no Guards.
LOL, I don’t watch any streams and IDC about your team or anybody elses (no offense). And you’re wrong, ele took over the role of guard back at launch, for the same reasons they’re been played right now.
Sure bud. I say that it’s only because of ‘some team’ you mention that double engi comp, and you were the first to bring up the Abjured, and knew they shared that comp already.
I think you are caught. I can get Toker to give you an autograph if you like.
We can agree to disagree about Guardians being pushed out of the meta at launch. Guards were everything at launch.
LOL, Where did I mentioned your team in any of my post??? I think somebody is paranoid……………… Stop bringing your Pals into this, creating drama out of nothing. I’ve never thought you were this sensitive.
I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth.
Whatever you say, pal. Your comment was 100% a reference to The Abjured after the Go4cup tonight.
The Dankening, Boreal, SlipperyDingoWranglers, Radioactive, Sharks with Lazers, the Absurd…
Nobody is running double Engi. I’m also telling you it’s not ideal, as well. Lmfao. It’s only ideal for us because Nos can’t go to china and we have 2 Engi mains.
So yes, you saying that double Engi in the same breath as ‘double Ele is pushing Guardian out of the meta’ is pretty wrong.
You’re not the only ones doing it. Players have been running double engi and double d/d since the runes and sigil change. And you don’t need to explain to me anything about strategy, I know the reason why they choose ele over guard. This is not the first time we’ve seen players running double d/d eles, we saw the same thing back at launch.
No, this is actually the first time in the history of GW2 that Guardians have not been a meta choice on NA. There may have been double Ele, but there never has been no Guards.
LOL, I don’t watch any streams and IDC about your team or anybody elses (no offense). And you’re wrong, ele took over the role of guard back at launch, for the same reasons they’re been played right now.
Players stacking double d/d eles pushing the bunker guard out of the meta. And stacking double engis, P/P with Balthazar runes and Celestial rifle.
Yeah okay because those guys on that team are doing it, it must be the new meta, and for that to happen, it must be overpowered. Engies must be overpowered. That logic.
To be completely honest, Necro/Engi is going to get teams more mileage than Engi/Engi, if the team is creating a suitable environment for the Necro to gank and excel at.
Double Engi is not even meta… I think that there is only one team doing that and staying somewhat competitive.
I think D/D Ele has pushed out Warriors and Rangers as the on-point holders and 1v1 side pointers. And when you don’t run a Mesmer who needs long range cleansing, and use a strategy that would pit an otherwise Guardian into a 2v2 that’s hard to win, Ele makes a lot more sense than Guardian.
I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth. You’re not the only ones doing it. Players have been running double engi and double d/d since the runes and sigil change. And you don’t need to explain to me anything about strategy, I know the reason why they choose ele over guard. This is not the first time we’ve seen players running double d/d eles, we saw the same thing back at launch.
I’m a mesmer player. No class is breaking pvp. We are currently in the most balanced state since launch. More improvements can be made, but the QQ is a bit much.
I disagree, the game is more broken now than back at launch.
I don’t think “broken” means what you think it means.
In my experience, posters who repeat the buzz words of the day, such as "broken"and appear to make a solid effort to avoid posting a comprehensive explanation as to how they feel something is a problem, it generally turns out to be a poor build or weak play style for those particular build. But that it just what my experience has taught me.
For example, you claim:
d/d ele and engis are dominating pvp
Prove it?
I am not seeing a lot of either. I see more mesmer and thieves then eles, engies, or rangers, all of which are they top OP claims at the moments.
Precisely what is OP specifically? List the builds for those professions that are problematic would you please?
Players stacking double d/d eles pushing the bunker guard out of the meta. And stacking double engis, P/P with Balthazar runes and Celestial rifle.
No class is breaking PvP. The classes that are too strong are barely too strong. (If you disagree, think about why almost every high-level player, regardless of class, agrees the game is as balanced as it’s ever been.)
With that said, engineers should have their condition output nerfed and cleansing buffed.
If you call passive fears, IP, fire+air proc, celestial amulet, Balthazar runes, strength runes balanced. Then you’re in denial, and that’s just scratching the surface.
Well I don’t think he claimed that sigils and runes were breaking PvP so why would you assume he’s in denial?
He only said that classes weren’t.
d/d ele and engis are dominating pvp, you can try to defend your class all you want, but engi has been op for a long time untouched by the balance team. Ppl running double engi, double ele. You call that balanced, stacking the same professions? The same thing when warrriors were super op and spirit rangers, stacking those ham/bows… Anet didn’t learn anything when d/d ele was op back at launch, because they made them stronger when they introduced celestial. Now we got double d/d eles running around PvP again. So no, balance is worse now, because those runes and sigils changes made some classes ridiculously op.
No class is breaking PvP. The classes that are too strong are barely too strong. (If you disagree, think about why almost every high-level player, regardless of class, agrees the game is as balanced as it’s ever been.)
With that said, engineers should have their condition output nerfed and cleansing buffed.
If you call passive fears, IP, fire+air proc, celestial amulet, Balthazar runes, strength runes balanced. Then you’re in denial, and that’s just scratching the surface.
I’m a mesmer player. No class is breaking pvp. We are currently in the most balanced state since launch. More improvements can be made, but the QQ is a bit much.
I disagree, the game is more broken now than back at launch.
Engis has been broken for a long time even before the runes and sigil change. But once Balthazar runes, strength and celestial were introduced, engis became God. IMHO IP needs to be removed like Dumb fire for necros. Engi already has access to burning on p/p, flamethrower and on Balthazar runes. All passives procs should be removed TBH.
Dhuumfire wasn’t removed. But i also want to see a similar change to IP. If the engi could control IP, it would add counterplay (and if played correct, more pressure from the engi).
Engis has been broken for a long time even before the runes and sigil change. But once Balthazar runes, strength and celestial were introduced, engis became God. IMHO IP needs to be removed like Dumb fire for necros. Engi already has access to burning on p/p, flamethrower and on Balthazar runes. All passives procs should be removed TBH.
8. Nice joke…… I can’t believe you’re crying about mes. Mesmer is by far the weakest class in game and has been the weakest for a long time. Everybody in this game can shut down a mesmer. Reason #1 Everybody runs celestial, which means everybody is doing condi dmg. Mesmer has 0 condi removal and we’re forced to take decoy and blink because without those 2, [Reason #2]a thief will literally destroy the mesmer. You did good from 1-7, but when it came to mes you lacked the knowledge of the class and you didn’t provided any facts.
Bro, I was trolling calm down. I thought it was obvious with the bad spelling, and the post that was complaining about shatter Mesmer that was posted like a week ago as a reference. I guess my sarcasm wasn’t obvious, my bad.
Sorry that I got too defensive, but everybody at the top lvl knows that mesmer is really weak atm. We have to outplay pretty much everybody to win. Also, our survivability is so bad, the only good thing we have atm is boon removal and portal. Those people saying mes is op clearly don’t know the mes class and are having a hard time spotting the real one. Clearly a L2P issue…
Yea, i’m aware of the state of Mesmer, but it’s not as bad as you’re making it sound.
It’s pretty bad actually, that’s why you don’t see many mesmers in tPvp.
8. Nice joke…… I can’t believe you’re crying about mes. Mesmer is by far the weakest class in game and has been the weakest for a long time. Everybody in this game can shut down a mesmer. Reason #1 Everybody runs celestial, which means everybody is doing condi dmg. Mesmer has 0 condi removal and we’re forced to take decoy and blink because without those 2, [Reason #2]a thief will literally destroy the mesmer. You did good from 1-7, but when it came to mes you lacked the knowledge of the class and you didn’t provided any facts.
Bro, I was trolling calm down. I thought it was obvious with the bad spelling, and the post that was complaining about shatter Mesmer that was posted like a week ago as a reference. I guess my sarcasm wasn’t obvious, my bad.
Sorry that I got too defensive, but everybody at the top lvl knows that mesmer is really weak atm. We have to outplay pretty much everybody to win. Also, our survivability is so bad, the only good thing we have atm is boon removal and portal. Those people saying mes is op clearly don’t know the mes class and are having a hard time spotting the real one. Clearly a L2P issue…
8. Nice joke…… I can’t believe you’re crying about mes. Mesmer is by far the weakest class in game and has been the weakest for a long time. Everybody in this game can shut down a mesmer. Reason #1 Everybody runs celestial, which means everybody is doing condi dmg. Mesmer has 0 condi removal and we’re forced to take decoy and blink because without those 2, [Reason #2]a thief will literally destroy the mesmer. You did good from 1-7, but when it came to mes you lacked the knowledge of the class and you didn’t provided any facts.
Lol, shatter mesmer takes the most skill to play effectively, we have 0 condi removal. Anything can kill us now days……. If they nerf what you’re asking, then mesmer will become useless. Classes that need to be tone down atm: Engi, Ele, and passive fear procs on necro. Reaper’s Protection is such a joke. Play a mesmer and learn what mesmers do, you’ll see how under-power the mesmer class is compare to the rest.
Mesmer+thief comp is superior in every way. Mobility+burst, they can be on the other side of the map and burst you in seconds and be back where they’re needed to do the same. NA needs to get good… and stop cheesing it up with them Celestial bunkers.
Dude mesmer is not easier to play than ranger. I play both classes. Ranger is more interesting to play, imo. It’s fun to manage the pet and time their attacks and cc’s to ensure the kill. Rangers used to be more fun before the patch tho. That fast combo kill to down opponents was hell more fun than just pressing rapid fire. Before the patch i kill opponents 1v1 by using shortbow (get might from the stalker, get up close, pop RAO, activate signet of stone and wild, pop qz, daze, and burst the opponent by maximizing qz through quick crossfire attacks).
huh? how does did turned into a Mesmer conversation. Also I don’t want rangers are my team they’re useless.
I just love sharing irrelevant random pieces of information. Lol
I was talking to the op. Dont get so het up.
You said ranger takes more skill than mesmer lol. Ranger is by far the easiest class in the game. Mesmer is the hardest at top lvl play, I understand that ranger is your main and you love your class. But get real…
Dude mesmer is not easier to play than ranger. I play both classes. Ranger is more interesting to play, imo. It’s fun to manage the pet and time their attacks and cc’s to ensure the kill. Rangers used to be more fun before the patch tho. That fast combo kill to down opponents was hell more fun than just pressing rapid fire. Before the patch i kill opponents 1v1 by using shortbow (get might from the stalker, get up close, pop RAO, activate signet of stone and wild, pop qz, daze, and burst the opponent by maximizing qz through quick crossfire attacks).
huh? how does did turned into a Mesmer conversation. Also I don’t want rangers are my team they’re useless.
Power ranger it’s not that great………IDk why people play it. My only problem with power rangers is Point Blank shot. Fix the animation, increase the cd and reduced the range.
Yes nerf the class that takes the most skill. Thank you. Dont forget to buff turret engi while you’ re at it.
Nice joke, Mesmer takes more skill than thief it’s not even close. And I mean Shatter mesmer.
Even nicer joke , it doesn’t :-) but you are a well known Thief hater because of your l2p issues , so i wouldn’t expect anything other than thief bashing from you .
To the OP …….just stop lol.
A mongrel dog who tuck his tail between his legs and runs away from a fight should not bark. Thief is not the hardest profession in the game plz. So much stealth you get away with so much bullkitten. And you’re the hater and one of my victims. Now get good noob bye.
Mongrel dogs lol?
Chill out dude, it is just a game.
Yes nerf the class that takes the most skill. Thank you. Dont forget to buff turret engi while you’ re at it.
Nice joke, Mesmer takes more skill than thief it’s not even close. And I mean Shatter mesmer.
Even nicer joke , it doesn’t :-) but you are a well known Thief hater because of your l2p issues , so i wouldn’t expect anything other than thief bashing from you .
To the OP …….just stop lol.
A mongrel dog who tuck his tail between his legs and runs away from a fight should not bark. Thief is not the hardest profession in the game plz. So much stealth you get away with so much bullkitten. And you’re the hater and one of my victims. Now get good noob bye.
i want to support this but every match i get carried away with my bloodlust and end up trying to kill anything on sight instead of boycotting skyhammer ._.
More like you always end up being a victim….always dead
i want to support this but every match i get carried away with my bloodlust and end up trying to kill anything on sight instead of boycotting skyhammer ._.
More like you always end up being a victim….always dead
This game is not esports lol… Gw1 GvG was esports. The only good thing this game has is a the combat, that’s it. The balance is awful, so much AI and Bunkers everywhere.
Dude got lost in his own QQ forgot what the initial point of the thread was
This isn’t a QQ thread I am just stating that Thief hard counters all zerker specs and that is a FACT – no proof no evidence its just a fact since I am top player
ZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzz
typical hater nothing else to say so this how he creates drama. Get good and kitten pzzzzzzzz
If you’re able to beat them, on a zerker spec other than medi guard… You’re out playing them… And I don’t need attention from a forums full of clueless trolls that are in denial. So, at this point, you’re just being annoying…. /thread
This is exactly my point. To beat a thief, you have to outplay them. You can’t just faceroll your keyboard and expect to win. If you come across a good thief, you need to step up your game or you will be swept, but you can beat them. I’ve done it.
I don’t think you realize how steep the learning curve is for thieves. You can spot a bad thief a mile away. If the thief is skilled, you have to outplay it and the one with the most skill wins. Simple as that. No need to QQ about lacking the skill.
That’s not your point, because that’s not what you said……. But if you want my point, you can have it… anyways I’m done with this thread. So please Dear Mod close it.
I can get Toker to give you an autograph if you like.