Guild Wars 2

PAXA is the reason why Brad Pitt/Edward Norton made the first rule of fight club.

Where’d all my entertainment for the work week go?

Varconi.1804:

Back off that is my battle. Ignore him PAXA stick to focusing me on the field this guy is of no consequence.

I’ve kitten all over Narsil plenty of times, so it’s pretty easy to just write him off as a terribad.

Varconi.1804:

osif.8673:

Oozo.7856:

Your mesmer jumped into 5v10.

Yeah, and I stuck it up your thief’s butt!
And just to point out, it was a group of NSP, not HoD!

Did you use tears or blood for lube?

With that thief, it was blood for sure. He won’t be walking for weeks.

Oozo.7856:

osif.8673:

Oozo.7856:

osif.8673:

Oozo.7856:

Your mesmer jumped into 5v10.

Yeah, and I stuck it up your thief’s butt!
And just to point out, it was a group of NSP, not HoD!

http://youtu.be/oRytOS_SZCg?t=5m21s

Check the guild tags at the front. That is PAXA joining in with 25+ HoD to try to kill us. I’ve never seen you guys do something like that before. You hit us while we fighting those numbers. What’s up with that? And what happened to you is precisely the reason why I always try to get my group to pull out and leave in those situations because I’d never want to be caught dying with a zerg at my back like that.

Below is the fight where you added in. Check the tags. It’s HoD. This was not too long after we let you 1v1 the thief. A fight which you won, but we had to kill you because you went to stomp him. People don’t do that in duels.

http://youtu.be/XNfPh1tSTKU?t=9m39s

lol, don’t mention what happened before that “duel” or anything.

Yeah, I think they killed you? I told them not to, but they understandably don’t think you should be given special treatment give the number of times you add in on fights.

And, honestly. Why should you? I convinced them to give you a 1v1 and then 10 minutes later you are trying to snipe us while fighting twice our number of HoD (not NSP).

Why should you be given special treatment, exactly?

I don’t think anyone should be given special treatment in any PvP game. Sorry, I forgot about that fight. I was talking about when I jumped in while you were fighting Splt. And it’s funny how people get so offended by a stomp that has ZERO repercussions.
But if I am shown respect, I show it back. Your group showed none, which is fine. I’m not going to show you any either. Don’t be a little baby about it on the forums, though. You just look bad.

Oozo.7856:

osif.8673:

Oozo.7856:

Your mesmer jumped into 5v10.

Yeah, and I stuck it up your thief’s butt!
And just to point out, it was a group of NSP, not HoD!

http://youtu.be/oRytOS_SZCg?t=5m21s

Check the guild tags at the front. That is PAXA joining in with 25+ HoD to try to kill us. I’ve never seen you guys do something like that before. You hit us while we fighting those numbers. What’s up with that? And what happened to you is precisely the reason why I always try to get my group to pull out and leave in those situations because I’d never want to be caught dying with a zerg at my back like that.

Below is the fight where you added in. Check the tags. It’s HoD. This was not too long after we let you 1v1 the thief. A fight which you won, but we had to kill you because you went to stomp him. People don’t do that in duels.

http://youtu.be/XNfPh1tSTKU?t=9m39s

lol, don’t mention what happened before that “duel” or anything. You’re preaching this whole respect thing when you show none yourself. Oh, and yes. Next time I’m jumped by a thief while other HoD are around, I’ll make sure to just stand there and let him kill me. rofl. Like you said, this is WvW. You’re here on the forums calling me out, not the other way around.

Oozo.7856:

Your mesmer jumped into 5v10.

Yeah, and I stuck it up your thief’s butt!
And just to point out, it was a group of NSP, not HoD!

Teivo asked me if I could post something for her once. I told her I would only if I could puts my diyuk in. I never heard from her again.

Varconi.1804:

Jscull.2514:

Varconi,

How’d running solo on your necro go last night? Cheers m8.

Other than the 5 man gang kitten s was a blast I told Osif just the tip

I’m gonna puts my kitten in!

I’m gonna pop it off in your vadge. Let’s do this forum warriors. I’m ready to go!

Nah Devon, he meant “nest.” You’re just not cool like us to get the lingo. It’s ok, I still wuv you.

Varconi, it wasn’t a 1v4. Adds coming in and out of the fight and enemies switching onto them, taking pressure off of you… well, it’s easy. I’ve done it with my more survivable speccs to SPCA, Invi, other respectable, good 5 mans plenty. With the buff to PU, it is even easier now. It doesn’t mean those guilds/players are bad by any means. With that said, Zelrin is a terrible thief and has a smaller peepee than me.

All I was saying, was in your video, it is far from a 1v4. I was hoping to see an actual 1v4, you can imagine how disappointed I was. When I’m promised sex and all I get is a r!m job, I throw quite a hissy fit. I mean, every guy likes to get his kitten licked, but I want what I’m promised to get.

@Varconi,

This one time, I was solo roaming and came across a Splt group fighting an HoD zerg. I proceeded to auto attack them, and when one died and the rest ran back to spawn, I came to the forums and gloated about me 1v8ing them. Because the lord knows, there was only 1 of me and 8 of them. In fact, I think they may have had a zerg as well. Yeah, come to think of it, I 1v8 them along with their 10 PUGs that added onto the fight. True story, bro.

And whenever I read these threads, all I can think about is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8dR2Xs7ZBI

Darek.1836:

one of the PAXA players run a tanky condition Mesmer spec who spams staff 2 and gap openers I wonder if he thinks XOXO runs gimmicky builds

LOL how long ago are you talking about? I’m pretty sure you’re talking about me from like 2 months ago, as the other mesmer in PAXA runs a shatter build. I must have made wittle Dawek angwy.

God Tots talks so much trash I wonder if he is actually any good (doubtful after seeing his slow reactions against Teivo and the like).

Rob.7624:

@ osif

Didn’t expect that much cc.
Now I know your trick.

Knowing my tricks won’t help you, Robert.

You’re gonna feel so sad when my diuyuakuk is all up in that vidgadadge.

I will JamboHammer you into the ground and you won’t be able to walk for days.

HatasGunnaHate.3627:

We got us a real

Excuse me sir, you can’t park your car on this forum.

Oh wait, it’s just a fat kid! Hey, Bill, it’s just a fat kid!

Only thing I get from this thread is that Toble is still in love with PAXA.

When are all the small man groups going to graduate from small man school and join the big boiz in solo-roaming?!

P.S. Hi, Robert. How is my Scottish friend doing?

Devon.9061:

osif.8673:

Come at me bro!

Oh… God… the PAXA are unleashed… RUN!!!!

Come at me bro!

This is a serious problem, Anet, and not a troll. Please respond accordingly and ban KoM. All of them.

decease.3215:

the pitiful amount of health idefender has also make it worthless in pvp..

How is taking ~14k of damage done to you worthless in PvP?

iDefender is still worth while, but it depends on the situation.

God this week’s forums kittening blew.

gwfanboy.2496:

Anet! Something has to be done! I can’t complete my daily JP PVE content in a WvW pvp area!

Rofl

Here’s a video of zerging that you want. Notice how exciting it is, like watching a chicken with its head cut off. The high level play of keyboard turning and ability clicking. The coordination of throwing down a combo field and watching people accidentally activating it because, oh hey, there’s 20 other people around you spamming buttons in the general area. So competitive, so enthralling, so skilled.

Grackleflint.4956:

Roaming videos have been done to death. Roaming doesn’t help your world accomplish anything.

Can anyone link a video showing actual WvWvW tactics—trap placement, which bases to hit and how, proper use of siege and how to protect them, etc?

I can’t wait for dueling to be implemented so roamers become a thing of the past.

Someone get killed by a roamer while running to their zerg? Bitter little skilless zerger, don’t be so angwy.

Added a video, hope you enjoy it!

Pyroatheist.9031:

osif.8673:

• These were steps moving in the right direction for balance, even though things can always be done better.
• Making IC globally inherited by the abilities it effects and replacing the trait with something new would be a step in the wrong direction for balance.

Protip: A space is needed between the * or the # in order to make bulleted lists or numbered lists.

Those are the two points that I strongly disagree with. As I explained, due to the position and power of the trait, it was not so much a trait choice as it was a permanent, basic boost to mesmer builds. Because of that situation, the move is a de facto nerf to all non-shatter builds, not a step towards balance.

Thank you for the protip.
You obviously can’t see the other side of the argument with this one. I don’t know if it’s anger in the change, if you’re just stubborn, or just want mesmers to be above the rest. I’ll just leave it at us disagreeing, as we have both expressed our opinions and the argument is exhausted.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@osif: If that trait only affected a few utilities, then you might be correct. The fact of the matter is, however, it affects a massive number of skills across all builds. Leap, phase retreat, mirror blade, all phantasms, all of these are utility/damaging/w.e skills that have no inherent ties to shatter builds. I see the point you are trying to make, but the premise you use is unfortunately factually inaccurate.

I don’t see what the accuracy of my premise has to do with the overall picture… I was just trying to explain what I think was the reasoning behind the trait move, which is apparent we disagree on if you think it is factually inaccurate. I don’t think it was a casual “Phantasms are strong, let’s move IC further up the tree to nerf phantasm speccs” which seems to be roughly what you think based on some of your posts… and as you pointed out it didn’t really do too much to phantasm strength. To simply sum up my points though:
*Diversity is not gone.
*These were steps moving in the right direction for balance, even though things can always be done better.
*Making IC globally inherited by the abilities it effects and replacing the trait with something new would be a step in the wrong direction for balance.
*I think I had one more but I forget. =P

Pyroatheist.9031:

Shatter builds most certainly don’t benefit the most from IC. They benefit just about the same as any other build mesmers have. Pure clone generation is only part of what IC does. It also affects phantasm cooldowns, and then all of the skills that generate clones have strong utility. IC is anything but a shatter build trait, it is a mesmer trait.

The reason behind removing IC and adding it innately into CDs across the board is because that is how it was. At the 5 point minor position it is, for all intents and purposes, an innate cooldown bonus. All mesmer builds took it because without it most builds are significantly slower and clunkier. Since it was an innate bonus, removing that bonus is a straight nerf to all non-shatter builds. Being an innate bonus, to actually promote build diversity the trait should have been made truly innate, the trait removed, and something else put there.

If, then, after the cooldown bonus had been absorbed into the skills, it was determined that this was overpowered or needed adjustments in some way, then the skills or builds that specifically needed those adjustments could get them. That way only the problems could be addressed without doing a broad spectrum nerf.

If, on the other hand, you feel that all non-shatter builds needed a 25% cooldown increase on roughly half of their toolkit, then that is an entirely different argument, and not one the devs or anyone else seems inclined to make, and wisely.

I may have worded my point poorly, as I know faster phantasm output was very nice for phantasm builds. My point was that how the trait is designed, and which tree it is in, shows that it is meant to help shatter mesmers produce clones and shatter more efficiently in my eyes. This change, which didn’t effect shatter mesmers in anyway, just reconfirms it for me.
The fact is, as a 5 point trait, it was effectively giving players an extra weapon training, for every 2-3 out of 5 skills on their bar, for every weapon set and some utilities. 5 points! you admitted that it was too strong for adept, so how would it not be too strong as an innate application? So we can just skip over that part and look at what skills and builds need adjustments. Personally, I think we are in a pretty good place now. More people will be picking up torch because of the PU buff, although the mage is still lacking. They’re slowly lifting scepter up. I think they’re making changes in the right direction.
Now does this patch promote build diversity? Maybe not. But I also don’t think it limits us into a x/x/x/x/25 build in the slightest. It’s also evident that there are plenty of different builds out there being used post-patch.

TooBz.3065:

No, and I’m sure they take it very seriously. But I do think it’s more likely that the discussion started with “IC is too powerful” than that it started with “how do we get more people to play shatter mesmers”

I think you could be right that it started off as IC being too powerful. But from a design standpoint, I could definitely see it being started more as “What role do we want IC to play, what do we want it to be?” I never said it started as them trying to make more people play shatter.

TooBz.3065:

But the consequence of more people moving to a shatter build may not have occurred to them. And frankly, I don’t think that will happen.

Some will go to shatter. Tons will try out PU. Tons will pick the GS back up and go phantasms. I think it’s pretty clear that there’s more than just shatter still.

TooBz.3065:

I really think that ANet didn’t think it through that far.

There was no conversation that started “Why aren’t more people running shatter builds.”

Instead, I think the discussion was “IC is too powerful to be an adept minor trait, let’s move it up a bunch”

The impact of that move was probably not completely thought out.

C’mon now, I know gamers are passionate and emotional when it comes to games, so being angry about a nerf that directly correlates to their fun is completely understandable. But let’s look at this from an objective standpoint. You really think that the game devs and designers didn’t discuss this, and every other decision they make for that matter, completely? This game is their livelihood. If they fail, they could be out a job. Look at what Bioware did to the SWTOR team. Look at what happened to 38 Studios. I’m not saying that game developers and designers always make the best choices, but I can guarantee you that they take every decision they make very seriously. In this case, I’m sure it wasn’t just:

One designer – “IC is too powerful to be an adept minor trait, let’s move it up a bunch.”
Another designer – “Good idea, done. Next?”

juno.1840:

From the wiki:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

So if a skill does damage, it will scale with power based upon the “skill-specific coefficient”. I haven’t been able to find these coefficients by skill (yet).

Based upon the equation, every skill you have that deals damage will benefit to some degree from power.

This is every skill on the scepter as well as torch 4, staff 1, and stakitten . I count six skills in total, not two.

In addition, phantasms also benefit directly from power — although I have to research that equation as well.

Sorry for the confusion. What I, and I think Pyro too, was trying to point out is that the damage increase from power on the scepter/torch and staff is insignificant compared to the damage from the conditions those weapon sets output. The iWarlock and Confusing Images will hit noticeably harder with more power, but everything else’s direct damage is soft (staff and scepter auto attacks hitting for slightly more damage with your power). All in all, iWarlock and Confusing Images damage increase from your power pales in comparison to the amount of damage you’d get from just going more condition damage. Now if you used a GS, for example, rather than the staff, then the discussion of power would be a little different.

Pyroatheist.9031:

It’s not the end of the world, but the analysis is spot on. The movement of IC is a de facto nerf to any non-shatter build. This is caused by the fact that it was a baseline requirement for almost any mesmer build to be properly effective.

The trait is too strong to be an adept minor. It’s also too strong to be a grandmaster minor. It shouldn’t exist. When a trait like that becomes so necessary that every build takes it, it is now a baseline part of the class and not actually a build option. Being a baseline part of the class and not actually a build option, moving it simply is a nerf to that entire class. A proper solution would be to remove the trait entirely, change the cooldowns to absorb that baseline effect, and put something else that is balanced in its place.

I respectfully disagree. Shatter builds, which are clearly one of the focuses of the trait line, benefit most from IC. Faster clone output = higher rate of shatters. It is clearly in a good place now such that the majority of people picking it up are most likely shatter builds – which I think was probably ANet’s intention. Adding an innate IC across the board and replacing the minor trait with something new (I think that’s what you meant by “change the cooldowns to absorb that baseline effect?”) would be ridiculously over the top strong. The short CDs we had were verging on OP for only 5 trait points, how would shortening the CDs on all illusion spawning abilities and adding a new minor trait be fair?

Pyroatheist.9031:

All damage attacks do benefit to some extent from power, that is true. Some are considerably more benefited though. Of the skills you have in your build, only 1 will benefit in any noticeable way. Staff autoattacks even in a full power setup barely tickle glass cannon builds.

Confusing Images also benefits nicely from power… but yeah, 2 abilities that are affected noticeably by power isn’t much worth it.

thatmaskedman.4508:

Get off that horse dude, seriously. There’s more people around these forums with design or development experience than just you.

Don’t you think this is a little ironic as ANet employees most likely have much more design and dev experience than you, (and most people on the forums) yet you question and tell them they are wrong? Carighan is right in the quote you have there… I think it’s you who might have to step off the horse and realize that mesmers are far from dead and are still extremely strong. IC being moved to GM is hardly the end of the world.

Thanks for the feedback.

@Rinzler
I guess it’s a matter of style preference. To me, shattering is a last resort to save myself. In your build it’s obviously an offensive option as well. I guess it’s also a situational discussion as well, are your phantasms surviving? It’s more damage not shattering them. Are they dying? Shattering is a better idea. I can definitely see your specc being better in a group, having more options. I’ve been mostly solo roaming and I like having the extra damage mitigation and regen that a hybrid shatter/phant specc didn’t give me. Especially since I don’t have the crutch of blurred frenzy currently.

@Chaos
I like those suggestions, maybe I’ll give them a try. The 15 in dueling is mostly just because I had 5 left over, and I can stack a decent amount of bleeding with the berserkers. Although my bleeds don’t do a ton of damage, any damage is significant damage. The 15 in inspiration though will be hard to give up. It works very well with illusionary membrane and has a significant impact on my damage mitigation. But like I said, I like the suggestions you made and I might give them a shot and play around with those extra 10 points.
My gear is mostly an artifact of past builds when I was playing a phantasm condition specc. While I do still like the celestial trinkets and Divinity runes, (I think having a balanced stat makeup is great for this build) they are not the most optimal.

I’m gonna go ahead and bump this as I would like to get some constructive feedback on it as well if you guys don’t mind.

Azgarn.2145:

Commenting does not always mean crying,
Katz why are you constantly dying?
Olivia Wilde is really hot,
I wonder if they will filter the word kitten .
ET is giving a good fight this week,
Water Buffalo.

My best poem yet.

poop

Hello Mesmer community,

Just a few words before you take a look at the build.
This build doesn’t use any of the new traits. I’ll be tweaking it and playing around with it most likely. I’m not going to say it’s original, as I’m not sure if other people have been using a similar build for a while… (I’ll admit that it’s pretty much the build that I used before the GS “bugged” zerker). I just want to let the community know that phantasm speccs are just as viable as they were before the patch.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|1.1g.h1h|6.1c.h1j|1g.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1g.71j|211.e13.2v.e13.211.e13.1g.67.1g.67.2v.e13|k3a.f2.k4a.f5.0|15.7|31.36.3d.3l.3o|e

Pros:
*GS viable again, yay!
*Phantasms have a longer life-span.
*Greater group viability.
*Extremely tanky even in mostly Berserker gear.

Cons:
*Not pumping out phantasms as quickly as pre-patch… not too noticeable since phantasms live longer.
*Lack off damage avoidance but takes damage better.
*Longer CDs on illusion creating abilities are noticeable, especially on staff #2.

Comparing to my pre-patch specc:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|c.1g.h17.c.0.h1|6.1c.h1j|1g.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1g.71j|211.e13.2v.e13.211.e13.1g.67.1g.67.2v.e13|a3.k24.k4a.f5.5|15.7|31.34.3d.3l.3o|e

As well as Pyro’s scepter/sword sword/pistol specc,
I’ve only noticed improvements, mainly because of the iZerker fix. It is still not 100% reliable, I notice the range is anywhere from 3k-6k-ish on the same target based on how many whirls it connects. Fighting 1v1s I have noticed the same results, as phantasms are still very strong 1v1. 1vX though is where I notice a difference, as the GS has AoE capabilities that were lacking before. Group fighting, phantasms were never strong in the first place. But this build is better for a group than my pre-patch builds for obvious reasons.

Again, this build isn’t new. I just want people to see that phantasm speccs are far from dead and there is room for build diversity. I might try playing around with Phantasmal Haste and some of the new interrupt traits as well.

This video was taken over a play session, so it’s not the greatest fights, just the ones that I could find. Hopefully it can make some people see that there is still build diversity and that mesmers weren’t nerfed into the ground (my mesmer guildy in one clip was running a shatter mantra build, interesting). There’s not really any reason to quit because of the patch. I hope you enjoy!
Video: http://youtu.be/HMBgiysCxgo

I’m staying a Mesmer. It feels a little clunky getting used to the longer CDs, but overall I’m liking my new phantasm staff/GS build and have no problems with similar 1v1s, 1vXs that I had before the patch. Plus phantasms are now much more viable in a group than they used to be. Not saying it’s better than shatter, but phantasm speccs never were when talking about a group setting.

Doing a phantasm build with GS/staff, didn’t end up taking BI. Phantasms are still just as viable as they were before the patch… maybe more so now that we’re more viable in a group… just as good 1v1.

Huh, what? Someone call? I heard my name…

AfterDark.1920:

I am with you – after 8 months of playing Mesmer ANet has thankfully given me a reason to switch off now.

$20 says the people “quitting” because of this don’t actually leave.

Haha really? You’d think they would test the single mechanic of the condition before implementing it live.

How long does the 5 stacks of might last with base boon duration? Can’t log in right now and I can’t recall them mentioning the duration in the notes.

I will be trying a phantasm/interrupt hybrid (maybe I’ll bail on the interrupt) with GS/staff.