Guild Wars 2

clint.5681:

ptitminou.6489:

Anyone want to run fractals with me? No point in playing WvW until server merges on SF so I’m a PvE guy now. Let me know in PM since the egos moderating these forums needed more work and reasons to justify their jobs so they made those new rules and we might get infracted for breathing their air from our homes. I’ll check back in a few days and add those who PM me to friends in game. Feel free to just PM ingame too, not just in the forums

PM me: AR, Exp, main pve class! (unlike WvW, I don’t mind a ranger tagging along in PvE as long as the pet is stowed)

You still switching servers?

Not unless xfers are free, even using gold it still helps Anet by upping the exchange value. So I will probably stay put for a long time given they had absolutely no xmas specials. Me thinks they are in financial trouble and it’s not worth giving them my money. I’ll enjoy what I already paid for, for as long as it lasts. Also, server name is meaningless in PvE and I am PvE scum now.

Anyone want to run fractals with me? No point in playing WvW until server merges on SF so I’m a PvE guy now. Let me know in PM since the egos moderating these forums needed more work and reasons to justify their jobs so they made those new rules and we might get infracted for breathing their air from our homes. I’ll check back in a few days and add those who PM me to friends in game. Feel free to just PM ingame too, not just in the forums

PM me: AR, Exp, main pve class! (unlike WvW, I don’t mind a ranger tagging along in PvE as long as the pet is stowed)

Fuzzion.2504:

EFWinters.5421:

GW2G is good but in my opinion too harshly moderated (although it might be more light since many of those moderators moved to this forum?).

Anyway, I guess it’s going to be GW2G seeing how it’s already an established website with a large community base, and how many of the people posting here already have an account there from before these forums were launched.

And yes… Avatars… And signatures…

How I have missed thee…

How bad is the moderation at GW2Guru ? Anyone knows?

Take here. Multiply by 2 or 3. Welcome to guru forums! It’s bad. Most sites that want to make money have mods who are huge into censorship to justify their jobs. Like here, respond to a question, like I am doing, might get infracted for being off-topic. No way to know anymore.

So where ever we land, it has to be where money is not the prime objective of those who run the site and anything that has to do with curse, I strongly suggest you turn the other way and run.

I have the same issue. It is always in an instance or in WvW (but I dont play that anymore, I can take a hint). I believe it may be related to the use of salvage kits in an instance. Anet doesn’t want you clearing your bags.

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

You dont see it because you aren’t used to analyzing customer reactions. I scrapped 2 years of development because of 10 comments during a beta for a web application and I’m rebuilding it based on that. And they were saying positive things too, but it started often with “I wonder if I can…” or “I wish I could” so that meant the interface was a total pile of crap.

I’m not seeing it because its not there. You’re misusing the word “censorship” which makes me think you’ve never actually experienced genuine censorship.

ptitminou.6489:

If you look at that forum’s reactions, you clearly see there is a major flaw with the game mode itself. So instead of fixing the coverage flaw, they’re making it go away by making sure people stop posting about the symptoms it creates.

They aren’t making it go away? This forum, here right now, has about five threads about the issue all of which are not going away, which will be reposted ad nauseum and which have nothing to do with the restrictions being placed on the match-up subforum. There’s a stark difference between pointing out flaws constructively and having your thumb stuck up your kitten .

ptitminou.6489:

The sad state of the gaming industry comes from the fact that developpers want to be glorified and they see their customers as press critics so they don’t give a hoot about them. (you shouldn’t care about the press either, but players are not the press, even if they have a facebook page)

Yes… thats why we have an Edge beta where we’ve been actively controlling what the devs do or do not do with the map. Because no one gives a hoot about us.

Developer =/= Community Rep.

Different departments, different people to answer to, and shouldn’t be confused.

On wikipedia it vulgarizes as:
Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet or other controlling body.

Or the actual definition from merriam-webster:
: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.

As soon as a message is deleted, it is censorship, no matter how ignorant the message was. The use of the word is not only belonging to the “evil communists” as CNN dictates. It is simply the action of suppressing something a person (usually in power) deems undesired. Undesired targetted deletion is automatically an act of censorship. It’s very hard to misuse a word with such a vast definition.

ANet is 1 body. I don’t care about their internal divisions for I am the customer. Be they called, community representative or developper I do not care. Why should I? I aint the one signing their paycheck. For all I care they could all be posting under the “Moderator” tag they use to anonymously close threads. I read what they say, not their names, not their titles. Perhaps they should engage in self-censorship too. Plus to hide their lies, they now “moderate” (that is censorship btw) anyone who dares call out one of their own by name, which is kind of funny to be honest as that would never fly outside the gaming world.

Looking at all the complaints about the game mode and seeing basically none of it was fixed in the past year shows they don’t care. You really can’t wiggle them out of that one as you can by saying “its not the same team” to deresponsibilize them as individuals and you are right on that, only wrong that you think it should matter to me. However, gratz to you on being able to tell them what flag to set on a BETA map…

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

A game starts going bad when censorship within it increases. I have too much experience as a gamer so I notice these trends, but you can now benefit from it.

You’re honestly just grasping for straws if you think that a forum that people can’t even agree on whether or not they want to remain, with plenty of people having long since abandoned it, being deleted is “censorship”. Its not even censoring opinions with relation to the game, its just people smack talking. If they shut down this(the main) WvW forum and GD, then you’d actually be talking about “censorship”. Otherwise you’re just using the word to blow a lot of steam.

I don’t agree with the move but I can certainly understand it, and, considering this is the internet, finding a place to kitten talk isn’t hard. But honestly saying “games around the corner” has been repeated ad nauseum here for ages, and the nearest thing is a premature cash-in being kicked out the door because of time and budget reasons.

You dont see it because you aren’t used to analyzing customer reactions. I scrapped 2 years of development because of 10 comments during a beta for a web application and I’m rebuilding it based on that. And they were saying positive things too, but it started often with “I wonder if I can…” or “I wish I could” so that meant the interface was a total pile of crap.

If you look at that forum’s reactions, you clearly see there is a major flaw with the game mode itself. So instead of fixing the coverage flaw, they’re making it go away by making sure people stop posting about the symptoms it creates.

The sad state of the gaming industry comes from the fact that developpers want to be glorified and they see their customers as press critics so they don’t give a hoot about them. (you shouldn’t care about the press either, but players are not the press, even if they have a facebook page)

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

Not a big deal though, other games are on the horizon.

At least wait to say that when the games are actually good.

A game starts going bad when censorship within it increases. I have too much experience as a gamer so I notice these trends, but you can now benefit from it.

GW2 player:
“Hey doctor, I may have skin cancer, I have these large brown spots on my skin, can you check it out”

ANet logic:
“Just use make up, if you don’t see the problem, it will just go away”

That is my best summary of why they are taking the forums out. Not a big deal though, other games are on the horizon.

titanlectro.5029:

ptitminou.6489:

titanlectro.5029:

Oozo.7856:

Zander.4763:

Welcome back guys!

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/43-stonemist-castle/

~GW2Guru

Far too much moderation on GW2Guru. It was even more carebearish than these forums when it came to “insulting” other players, guilds, and servers.

Sounds great.

Seriously, an unmoderated match-up thread will be pointless.

No, it will be great. Every adult can read over and ignore the bad comments.

Yes, every adult can. But does every adult want too?

Do you really want to build WvW community by trolling the ever-loving crap out of each other, because you have the “right” to do so? It is far more likely that all community building will cease as adults (with those powers of discernment you mentioned) will choose to leave such a toxic conversation. All that will remain are the “adults” trolling each other like children.

Therefore, a forum without moderation is pointless. It will no longer function as a meeting place for a community, and turn into a trollfest.

I can get you a far better trollfest.
Gather 100 people to constantly downvote. The best way to troll nowadays is not to write things, there is too much censorship everywhere thanks to the American culture. However, like in the 16th century hangings, people still love to see others get punished.

So there is another type of trolling, called shill trolling, just reporting a bunch of stuff to get people penalized and it is the most effective destructive troll. It works on here. It works awesome on Facebook. Reddit is still King. It still works on a bunch of other sites, even 4chan is going that direction now outside of b, of all places.

- Life is much easier when you just shill out!

Vyx.8607:

Moved site to http://www.gw2wvw.net

Added private messaging capabilities, cleaned up the user self moderation logic a bit. Green light to use and abuse if you’d like. All capabilities are behind a registration/login.

allow me to see all comments regardless of what other’s opninions are. I think most people are too stupid to decide what I can deal with and what I can’t.

titanlectro.5029:

Oozo.7856:

Zander.4763:

Welcome back guys!

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/43-stonemist-castle/

~GW2Guru

Far too much moderation on GW2Guru. It was even more carebearish than these forums when it came to “insulting” other players, guilds, and servers.

Sounds great.

Seriously, an unmoderated match-up thread will be pointless.

No, it will be great. Every adult can read over and ignore the bad comments.

The censorship Anet is implementing in their forums is sign the game is going bad. When WoW started it, their numbers went down soon after, when AoC started, the numbers went way down, when SW:ToR did the same, they went free to play. I am not sure I’ll stay with a game that manages a community like North Korea; well it’s why I don’t play the above games anymore, I guess you all will be better off without me.

Shongaqu.5279:

TLDR : I would like to see a horizontal progression system in the game that focuses on investing us in the world of Tyria; a system that allows us to build something beyond our character’s stats and appearance. I would like to see a system that rewards gameplay with expanded options to generate world content for yourself and other players.

That sounds awesome, but programmatically, how can it be done? At the base, it sounds like gathering influence for a guild and once the bar is full allow players to access x content. If it is generated dynamically, it sounds like what SOE is trying to do with EQN and the first impressions of how it works, well, let’s say they are a long ways from that goal.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

ptitminou.6489:

TLDR/Conclusion:
So, I will be able to run level 39 fractals in a month’s time, 2 months if I were a fresh new account, my friend will barely be able to afford 1 ascended ring, or one ascension item and he will still be running level 1-9 in 2 months because you want to “help” casual players. Timegates do NOT work, they will never slow down a hardcore player, all they achieve is to make us math things out to get max efficiency. Fractals really make a lot of the other timegates useless too, just an fyi for your game.

L2P an MMO tips:
Chase the furthest attainable carrot for your gamestyle (ie: not wvw achieves if you are an achiever), chances are you’ll grab a few of the others along the way without even trying. As well as making a ton of gold, because games are generally misbalanced like that to incite players to even bother going after that far away carrot.

The goal isn’t to make hardcore and causal players have equal times that would make for a pretty unfun game, goal is to just bring the ratios between them slightly closer instead of 100 to 1 get it to 20 to 1 and stop it from becoming 1000 to 1 over 10 years.

Some of the debate your leading into is time gating vs skill gating which is pretty tricky skill gating is important for a game but it drives a lot of people away. I actually think we need to add more skill gating but skill gating progression I think leaves some really strong imbalances and leads to really nitch hard core user base. This is why skill gating into horizontal progression rewards is good because this can allow people to do hard things but doesn’t require people to do it. This is why ascended armor is designed to be achievable by anyone just takes time to so.

I understand what you are going for. However, at the moment, it is going the opposite way. I don’t mind helping a friend catch up in fractals even though I get nothing much from it, but at least give him something for it is what I am saying. Currently, you’re stopping me from getting an item in 3 days and timegating it so it takes me 9 days for example, but you are also stopping the casual player from getting it in 3 days. What is happening is that it is really a 1:1 ratio. He won’t be able to get it any faster. I think it should be a 1:3 ratio. Introduce a weekly and monthly fractal-specific reward. As it stand, he still will average 68 relics per run eventually and he will still have to spend the exact same amount of time getting to where I am. He just has to manage that time differently. The difference is that he will not catch up to someone that has more days to dedicate before a very very long time.

(there is no skill involved in pressing buttons on a keyboard, but we’ll call it that for the sake of it, I get what you mean)
As for “skill gating”, that’s what fractals do after a while in combination with a timegate. No one views it as if they got 1 done just like those above. They view it as if it takes too long to do that and then they have to get another group on another day instead of going again with those who he just had a tolerable experience with. Inevitibly, some success rates will be higher than others and timegates, as well as discouraging higher players to help introduce the lower ones, will make those in the lower levels think that it’s really hard and that the success to time ratio to make it worth it is too low so they stop that altogether and do something else.

Also fractal ideas:
- Level 0 fractal run. No reward. No armor damage. Insta-rez at checkpoint (fall or intentional death to respawn the hammer for example). 1hp mobs. Choose the fractal.
- Introducing a “mentor” system for 1-19 where the mentor gets rewarded according to personal level upon success, where only personal level at or under the fractal level can join.
- Make mentor tag cost 2000 relics (or more!), kind of like a fractal commander tag.
- Make LFG specify a minimum AR level before joining the party.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Overall I feel like time gating is important for an MMO because it’s important to close the gap between the causal and hardcore group so you can make sure your future rewards and content are useful for a wider variety of players. For example if there was no level cap and everyone could level as much as they want, hardcore players would be at level 4561 and a causal player would be at like 100. Once that happens, it would be very hard to make anything that both of those players would be happy about getting. MMO’s also have what I like to call “mass” to them, the more people playing and logging on, the more fun they are and systems which encourage people to log in often help create that mass. People see their friends regularly even just to say “hey there is an event this Sunday with the guild” or “hey lets set aside some time Friday so we can do fractals”. Now this doesn’t mean I feel like we can just add time gates everywhere. In fact I think you need either a very large amount of time gated stuff so a player can play for ever and never run out of things to do (which is a bit unrealistic) or you need non-time gated rewards and game play. This is why we create places for people to farm for all types of things. We like people who farm a lot, we are just always trying to make sure farming doesn’t blow out an item so much it’s no longer worth farming as it sort of defeats the whole reason to farm. A nice mix of time gates and non-gates is important. I think there are some valid complaints that we have over time gated some areas of the game and we should do some reviews of our time gates to see if adjustments should be made, but the game needs time gates for many reasons and if they were not there the game would be way less fun for any type of player.

That was, delusional to say the least. I’ll attempt to explain.

I have been playing a lot lately, I am a hardcore player so here is basically my story in the 2 last months:

1) WvW became less efficient for rewards since now I got plenty of karma for obsidian shards, so I stopped that for a while (plus waiting for server merges to fix the coverage issues as playing on my server is kinda pointless due to that so there really is not much fun involved in it) – so I figured, now that I learned how the WvW meta works incase it is one day viable, I might as well go try another way to make gold, fractals! And yes, it is really 100x better than WvW, though much less fun. I got me plenty of karma (useless except for obsidian) so why waste more time in it.

2) Ascended armor…. oh wait, I don’t use crit damage % in my build, so it is completely useless for me to spend time on that.

3) Fractals math: For my pve char which now has 25 AR (had laurels, commendations, badges already & got a lucky drop once I hit lvl 11 reward level), I can average 68 fragments per run. 3 runs a day. Given the low drop rate of agony resist, it makes no sense to farm anything else for an ascended back piece since by the time I get it infused, I may not even have a +10 AR yet. So to get ascended, It requires that I run 35 fractals. Three per timer once you reach 25 AR, so even if I get 1 bad group per day and only complete 2 per day, I get it done in 17 days.

That’s what timegating does to the hardcore player, intead of getting it in 7 days or so, I’ll get it in 17, completely pugging everything. Now my friend, who can get in 1 day per week (1 run of a lv 1-9 fractal because of timegate) he would be able to get the ascension item (cost 500 relics) in a total of 2 months at his current log in pace. The other days he has to farm other timegates for the ascended item in the first place to make the ascension item worth it. But we all know he then needs 250 ectos. He is most likely to just uninstall and let me know of the next game he is trying once he realizes he will never be able to catch up anytime soon.

TLDR/Conclusion:
So, I will be able to run level 39 fractals in a month’s time, 2 months if I were a fresh new account, my friend will barely be able to afford 1 ascended ring, or one ascension item and he will still be running level 1-9 in 2 months because you want to “help” casual players. Timegates do NOT work, they will never slow down a hardcore player, all they achieve is to make us math things out to get max efficiency. Fractals really make a lot of the other timegates useless too, just an fyi for your game.

L2P an MMO tips:
Chase the furthest attainable carrot for your gamestyle (ie: not wvw achieves if you are an achiever), chances are you’ll grab a few of the others along the way without even trying. As well as making a ton of gold, because games are generally misbalanced like that to incite players to even bother going after that far away carrot.

Sirendor.1394:

Xenon.4537:

Sirendor.1394:

Maybe we should also introduce the balance of skill-reward into this discussion, since it is something which seems incredibly off balance in the case of ascended armour.

My biggest concern is that the vertical progression we have seen now requires no skill, but a lot of time:
- Gold is the main thing you need (200g per craft + 60g per piece)
- Gold is gained mostly through rather easy activities: dungeons, champion farms, world bosses
- Gold is very very low in challenging content: PvP is debatably one of the least rewarding areas of the game, Jumping Puzzles aswell.

Why do the most easy things in the game give more gold than the kittenes?

• Create a division where a small % of the players have access, and thus leave out a large % of players, which is contrary to Anet’s belief that everything should be accessible (playable) to everyone.

Of course that is not what we want, but the current situation is even worse. People who do harder content get less rewards. Sort of a reversed world. Anet wants me to go champ farming (aka. easiest content there is) to earn something, which I can’t earn by doing small scale, no zerg PvP (probably highest skill requirement).

I laugh everytime I see people think “skills” is just pressing buttons on a keyboard. Seriously? Also, this is a character progression thread, not a “plx rwrd my playstyle mor than others” thread. Albeit slower, your grandma can press keys on a keyboard too and speed is not a skill.

Player stat changes to ascended and legendary items would make it much better already. Just dont make us throw it in the toilet so we dont lose our slotted items.

That would solve the multiple build problem and it would give us the extra reason to get ascended gear other than fractals. For a non-fractal player, the stats are really so tiny that it is barely significant.

It would not solve the alt problem. Maybe a crafting (500) could “duplicate ascended” with a not too costly mat requirement, like that dust/dragonite everyone has too much of, however, you’d have to make the original piece not recreate itself so we dont lose upgrades on it. It could even incite people to level up another class, thus, buying character slots #$$$

Shakkara.2641:

Could we please remove stats alltogether and just use skills instead? Why do I need to choose between condition damage and power and precision and critical damage to choose my flavor of damage-dealing? Why do I have to grind to see these stupid numbers go up and up and up? It’s just so pointless… I want to make interesting character builds, things that require thought to work out, and options to really make a UNIQUE character that noone else has. I want to be given resources (like a pool of skills) and work with what I have in a smart way to increase the amount of shinies in the pool (learn more skills for more options and overcome new challenges).

The problem with this however, is that after a year or so, there are only 3-4 viable builds per class either because some skills totally suck or because some skill combos got nerfed because they were OP. Then if you don’t run one of the builds, you can go kitten yourself if you search for group play.

Try going in WvW and stacking on a commander wtih berserker gear to see how fast they tell you to go away or how fast they abandon you by tagging down and waypointing (or insulting you non-stop). Same thing was happening in GW1 and quite fast too if you didnt run the “right” build. You maybe had 1 or 2 skills of your choosing if you got really lucky.

Chris, it would help a lot for suggestions if Anet would tell us what they look for. A lot of the ideas here seem so simple that I cannot imagine them not coming up at all during your meetings. Most of those should NOT seem new to you guys.

We all know a business needs to make money, so what is Anet looking for exactly? I thought it would be fun, but having to farm the fractals 30 times with a time-gate for a backpiece gets old fast. So there must be something I am missing.

How much is the financial issue (both cost to dev. and potential revenue) part of the decision process for progression through a LS or a feature?

Both vertical and horizontal progression isn’t for everyone, why did they get put both in instead of looking to please only one of those groups instead of displeasing everyone at some point?

Did someone seriously convince the directors that time-gating would keep players committed to the game, if so, what was the argument used, it would help a lot with this thread? Did anyone ever bring up that it could also burn people out and make them lose sight of what else the game offers?

As another dev said decisions are taken as a group during meetings, then solved by a dedicated team, then the solution must be approved again before going into dev ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Collaborative-Development-Commander-System/page/7#post3310904 )

I am just trying to see the thought process behind the decisions being made as it is pointless to suggest things that go against that and I have a feeling most of the suggestions made will go against it.

PS: Let us dye left side and right side of gloves, shoulders and boots sometime soon?

Wait until the USD devalues, then buy. It’s the logical thing to do since they force USD on us. You can check the dollar values on here: http://www.xe.com/

The progression is fine for one character, but it really kills the game for alt-o-holics. Not that I should care, but every character I got except my main PvE and my main WvW are nothing more than retainers, which I am sure was not the purpose of extra characters.

The other issue is time-gates. Laurels, low mat. drop rates, for example, makes it very hard for a new or returning player to catch up to friends, so they figure they might as well wait for another game. The worst part is that we can’t even help out, we can only wait it out. Waiting is boring. Changes to skills make it necessary to re-gear a character sometimes, and the time consumption of that isn’t very appealing so there is no effort going into the gear, we just play the time-gate because there is no other way.

With crafting, I’m up to being able to make 3 ascended but I find it pointless to make them now as I can’t help but think the next update will ruin it. You got a lot of suckers with the warrior hammers last patch, while I laugh because I saw it coming, I also hold back on a lot of things because they change without refunds.

Now I dont know if you classify timegates as horizontal or vertical progression, but I think it’s the worst thing about GW2. At least I don’t pay to wait, so it’s not as bad as competitors, but I do admit that I am looking around just to get away from those.

Behellagh.1468:

Welcome to taxation as the new purchasing system makes sure you are taxed based on state and city sales/use tax.

And if you try to rollback via your bank or credit card, your account will be terminated and totally unrecoverable.

There was likely fine print somewhere that warns you that taxes will be charged.

In some places, Anet would be required to let the customer know the total cost with taxes before accepting the payment. Sometimes the client is right and it would be stupid, business-wise, to lose a customer for less than 1$.

Here if they charge you a different price than announced, the commerce must give the item for free if 10$ or less or take 10$ off the sale price. So basically, if they were to ever implement taxes for where I am, I would request the tax numbers to make sure that at least they dont just put taxes in their pockets (which again, the commerce must provide upon making a sale – if not, its actually considered fraud).

So before calling doom if they dont submit the the oh so holy Anet, at least know that not everyone is your neighbor. I think it would be best to just tell the OP to submit a support request and let him sort it out with Anet instead of lying and creating lawsuit situations.

Arius.7031:

Oh snap this is crazy lol. Is AR ready to play with FC/Dh? Time will tell!

SF, hope you guys recover from this. I’m sure you guys are getting hit really hard by leagues ending/general lack of moral.

Kaineng, still have mooncow I see… lovely.

Clint <3

Not really. It’s just pointless to have people on for 6 hours and the rest of the time getting eaten up, we’ll recover when people play in our off hours. If you see the PPT in the prime-time, with a lot of people not really playing we still beat them without much effort. In fact, we have a lot of people who played extra during the leagues who are resting I suppose.

Perhaps we should just tank to last since its how you get transfers it seems.

Everyone on PS should just follow that guild and purposefully be rally bait until the xfer off. That would be my motivation anyways. If they arent good enough to lose the pugs, they shouldn’t pretend to be good.

No wait, HoD got no transfers from gold tier! LOL

Killuminati.6945:

Just giving a shout to to SF about a cute little mesmer commander of LH attempting to get ressed through wall. Seems the guild SM was also in communication with this mes as they came directly here once she was killed. Ill be here for a while =].

Well that’s pathetic behavior. Will try to contact LH leadership and let them know they got a bad apple in their guild. Know who it was?

I predicted em all accurately. It was easy after guesting on Blackgate and asking what was happening. Someone told me some were resting, others practicing to counter SoR tactics, so it affected their rating. He then went on to explain how SoR was gonna be taken down. It was easy to claim they would win Gold after that.

Yeah well I think everyone that did the meta should get 100000 gold. I mean, a +30 infusion is worth over 500 000 gold at the moment, so we should get 1/5 of that. Either that or the infusion is totally broke!

I too, can make unreasonable demands and claim that something is broken even when it is not!

Hi Anet,

It did successfully get more people into WvW and made the first few weeks very interesting, if only for a short while. Unfortunately though, the staying power just wasn’t there and most servers have fallen back to the same usual people doing it while everyone else does PvE. Therefore, I suggest implementing a weekly achievement for WvW only! This will bring back the achievement hunters and if a decent reward is also added to it even the PvE players will come back.

Other than that, the main issues of coverage balance have yet to be fixed and balance is pretty much a requirement for any system awarding something to winners. However, I, for one, applaud the “rewards”. Perhaps that will teach band-wagoners and P2W commanders that doing that is pointless and that they would have been better off having fun in their own original servers even if it meant throwing down regular rams for a few towers. Someone has to be punished for all the servers that died because of the promise of a reward right? I totally agree with Anet’s decision. Those concerned should take it as a life lesson.

Anyhow, thanks for the great season and see you all in EOTM and hopefully we will see a few server merges soon!

Dayra.7405:

Here another proposal to nerf the overly decisive effect of night-capping:

Garrision
====

The general requirement is: it needs X player (sum all sides) on a map to maximally score X points (per side) on that map. No player on a map no score.

On each map the total number of players (of all three sides) is tracked.
On each tick the mean (if you enter or leave map and are 7.5min on the map you count 0.5) no of people of all sides, that got or made damage to/from players/NPCs (not fauna) during that time (i.e. were not AFK the whole tick) is used as point-cap for each side of this map.
If each side has 100 ppl on the map you have a cap of 300, which is above any maps possible tick.

Things looks different in off-time. If no one is on a map no one can get a point there.
If there are 100-30-30 the cap would be 160 for each side.

A large zerg jumping between maps capturing everything isn’t any longer the best tactic I guess, it leaves no one on the captured maps to score points, and if it jumps to a map where only the enemies have objectives, it first boosts the enemy score from that map till the zerg captures as many points as he has members.

If only one side is active and controls objective 695:0:0 and fields 100 per map (I think the max is somewhere around this number) it scores 400:0:0pts per tick, so boycott does not bring you anywhere.

However if you control 695:0:0 and go to “bed after work” you stop scoring as well.

A side with more coverage and equal quality in prime will continue winning, however a side with high coverage, but low quality forces will have it harder.

Even if off-time most often will bring a lower score with this method than it does now, there is definitely no discrimination of off-time players. Every player active in WvW at any time worth 1 point scoring potential. You of course have to control objectives to turn this potential into score. In fact prime-time players are still a bit underrated as the max number of player is around 1200 player max object is only 695, i.e. they will never be able to reach their potential. So giving each player only 0.5 points scoring potential would be even more fair.

You may remember Devon Carver blog at june 5, on the Future of WvW:
“Right now our game rewards you for holding an objective, not necessarily for taking it, and overwhelmingly favors the last server to log out for the day. We have some ideas in the pipeline to try to increase scoring when people are playing the game and to make it much more difficult to keep your territory without actively guarding it.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

A pitty that never happen anything following these words. I think this proposal fits his words better than the current state.

Or just remove WvW from the game.
You realize that a game has to be fun, right? It’s a game.

“Oh [xxxx] is in our BL, lets just move to theirs so they get bored and quit playing” or even

“ITS 2 AM EVERYONE GET OUT OF WVW TO MAKE SURE THEY CANT SCORE POINTS” and it is foolish to think that serious guilds wont do it. Only the pugs will remain in EBG. Everyone else will leave because good guilds play for the win."

Basically, your idea can be gamed it’ll just change the problem, but there will still be a problem.

Zephyrus.9680:

Why are people still surprised when meta events don’t have valuable rewards?

Maybe they are new to the game or are part of the crowd that refuses to listen to mmo vets who have seen this trend time and time again and who called it out the day the season was announced. At least, their QQ threads are entertaining.

NargofWoV.4267:

You guys do know there was a particular issue with town clothing and fast travel across a map.. right?

Probably, they were also probably using it

Amon.5042:

I think there’s too many RNG sinks / low RNG rate in this game which makes me perceive this system as somewhat of a scam. That’s a part of GW2 I strongly dislike.

Spend 10$ in the gem store and surprisingly RNG rates get higher…

Malediktus.9250:

There should be a way to upgrade your commander tag to high commander. Maybe for 2500 honor badges, 100 laurels, 100 guild commendations and 1m karma. It would give additional perks like permanently removing the despawn timer of a weapon, destroying ill placed siege or temporarily (like 1 hour) prevent griefers take supplies from a keep or tower.

Would trolltolly troll such a system.

Remus.1270:

Great fights last night in EB, if you were with me ty for stacking and staying on me.

I crashed after the SM cap Anet hates me is the only valid conclusion.

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

Your statement is exactly SF’s problem.

Not everyone wants to join the zerg nor is the zerg only tactic a viable way to win as this season has proven to you.

WvW is won by zergs, smaller teams and solo roamers.

You need them all to win – not just one.

Solo roamers help the other team win.

Also, in Bronze, we don’t really have any zergs, 30-man groups are pretty much tops. Highest I saw was 42 and it was because 3 groups merged for an all out attack on a garrison. Usually we have groups running around unable to pop orange swords. At least small teams can take towers so they arent useless. Solo roamers only queue maps and it worse for everyone, except the other teams.

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

I’ve had a few more ideas:

• Siege throwing UI for commanders
• Colored tags should be unique in a map – req. color preset – everyone defaults to invisible color
• Put a tag on top of a commander’s thrown siege (only visible to squad maybe)
• Tag size adjustable by all players through UI for themselves

Since many seem to want commander rep, then it has to be possible for more commanders to be effective (requires a major overhaul). Therefore, to make squads and smaller groups more useful:

• Remove supply carrying and change it with fixed amount of time spent building a siege (ie: infinite supply) – The build time is less effective after 5 builds and a player cannot build after 10. That way, the same 5 players can build enough siege for two doors.
• Each camp supply depot resets build effectiveness for everyone
• Camps should also manufacture ammo for siege so they could only be fired a certain amount of times without having any camps and their reload time would be diminished according to how many camps are controlled.

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

ptitminou.6489:

they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

Perception isn’t reality. SF has always zerged people, but each week there are actually more small role players (your: solo heroes).

You have to remember balling up in a tanky support build is much easier than stepping out in a small group and getting things done.

You need both to be successful, stop trying to model your server after Tier 1 and instead model it after the more successful Upper Bronze/Lower Silver servers and you might have something.

Trying to get everyone to run PVT/clerics/etc and spam 1 will only make them resent the playstyle. The main thing I personally think SF needs is to use the existing guilds more effectively. You have more players than HoD, but for whatever reason you aren’t getting them into WvW or if you are they aren’t being used (coordinated) effectively.

• It’s not “harder”, its a timegate created by Anet so you can’t switch gear. So you should go with the absolute best gear available for teamplay first, then do w/e. All who have alts get kittened as usual.
• Most people play MMOs for the PvE since even TF2 offers better PvP than GW2.
• The supply system makes solo heroes a thorn in your side, nothing else. Only 1 party is to blame for bad game design though and it is not the players. If it weren’t for that, smaller groups would indeed be worth it.
• There is a 24 hour clock. Judging our population when we have the most online is idiocy. Most of the latino community plays during the same time slot as our primetime which skews your perception (We both all “empty” in Bronze compared to BG or JQ standards)
• Most of the existing guilds on SF refuse to listen. Basically, CoSA, ICE and StaR try to use some kind of strategy and are willing to set up to work with others, but the others just are wildcards, completely randomized play and if we ask them something, they wont do it. Luckily, they are rather small, all except one, so if we do get mergers, they would get tossed aside rather quickly.

Quite frankly DH has just as many wildcards.

It’s my opinion you guys are just too stuck on the zergs and always have been. You need to embrace the smaller / solo aspect more.

1 guy alone flipping camps and being annoying can make a HUGE impact on the map.

I don’t know how many times during our tower takes and so on – I took a camp in that bl only to cause you to send your mini zerg to try and take it back because I know you will as to split up your force.

It’s not always necessary to send 5-10 people to take 1 camp back especially when we are sieging you.

Things like that are what you need to work on imo.

So all that was you trying to feel important because you solo cap camps?
If we care enough to send people take it back right away, you’re more than likely helping us by giving us a free RI where we know we wont be attacked from, giving us time to check everything else. If people go to the camp while being sieged, we either have a big group nearby or its simply impossible to defend so people move away.

bob.8632:

ptitminou.6489:

they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

Perception isn’t reality. SF has always zerged people, but each week there are actually more small role players (your: solo heroes).

You have to remember balling up in a tanky support build is much easier than stepping out in a small group and getting things done.

You need both to be successful, stop trying to model your server after Tier 1 and instead model it after the more successful Upper Bronze/Lower Silver servers and you might have something.

Trying to get everyone to run PVT/clerics/etc and spam 1 will only make them resent the playstyle. The main thing I personally think SF needs is to use the existing guilds more effectively. You have more players than HoD, but for whatever reason you aren’t getting them into WvW or if you are they aren’t being used (coordinated) effectively.

• It’s not “harder”, its a timegate created by Anet so you can’t switch gear. So you should go with the absolute best gear available for teamplay first, then do w/e. All who have alts get kittened as usual.
• Most people play MMOs for the PvE since even TF2 offers better PvP than GW2.
• The supply system makes solo heroes a thorn in your side, nothing else. Only 1 party is to blame for bad game design though and it is not the players. If it weren’t for that, smaller groups would indeed be worth it.
• There is a 24 hour clock. Judging our population when we have the most online is idiocy. Most of the latino community plays during the same time slot as our primetime which skews your perception (We both all “empty” in Bronze compared to BG or JQ standards)
• Most of the existing guilds on SF refuse to listen. Basically, CoSA, ICE and StaR try to use some kind of strategy and are willing to set up to work with others, but the others just are wildcards, completely randomized play and if we ask them something, they wont do it. Luckily, they are rather small, all except one, so if we do get mergers, they would get tossed aside rather quickly.

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

Arius.7031:

Dreadforce.6980:

Why do you ANBU guys seem so angry? In a few more days no of this will matter the people who fought each week should be proud and I hope they are having fun. When people get the rewards most pve players who started playing will be happy and stay and get better or feel it was a waste and never come back.

All servers say the same thing they win its all skill they lose its insert reason here.

What gives you the impression we’re angry lol? I’m really disappointed in SF for being pretty sore losers, and that’s really annoying considering the amount of effort we put into this. If that annoyance comes across as anger, sorry.

I don’t see why you think there are sore losers. We only accept our fate as it is. If it were something new for us, then maybe we’d be a bit mad, but the truth is, most of us fully expected to lose this one.

We failed on the recruitment side and versus night cappers, we are at the mercy of the third server slowing them down, it has nothing to do with WvW when we dont even have enough WvW players 75% of the time.

If accepting our fate comes off as being “sore losers” then so be it. It’s not like I dislike DH since the hackers left, I even keep telling Anet to merge our servers! It should really come off as being desperate for coverage more than anything else; we are.

I’m not sure I subscribe to that ideal.

Winning and loosing impact people differently.

When people loose hope or take a few hard losses it’s rare to them motivated again. Yet – the opposite side who may be winning see’s an influx of new blood consistently.

I don’t think you need a server merge – I think you possibly should look for someone who can rally your folks together. Your side is simply demoralized – not underpopulated.

BIG difference.

You should come on SF and try to rally people in off hours. All that have tried have failed, miserably. No one is interested in joining a high pop server that can’t down Tequatl either so recruitment was a disaster. Primetime losing some players might be a moral issue, understandably those that played overtime till 3am for the past weeks are a bit burnt out, but other than those times, it is a numbers issue.

Azreell.1568:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

Star’s ball is very good. BS had multiple skirmishes last night and we had difficulty killing any Star unless we separated them from their ball. The SF pugs tagging along were easy lootbags though.

SF’s strength was never in smaller battles/skirmishes.

Their mentality is very zerg based and they fight accordingly

Unless they greatly outnumber their opponent – they really aren’t even a thought anymore.

StaR rarely has more than 20 players on at a time and they rarely trigger orange swords. However, if you fight them 5v5 you will probably win because they are using team builds, they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

Arius.7031:

Dreadforce.6980:

Why do you ANBU guys seem so angry? In a few more days no of this will matter the people who fought each week should be proud and I hope they are having fun. When people get the rewards most pve players who started playing will be happy and stay and get better or feel it was a waste and never come back.

All servers say the same thing they win its all skill they lose its insert reason here.

What gives you the impression we’re angry lol? I’m really disappointed in SF for being pretty sore losers, and that’s really annoying considering the amount of effort we put into this. If that annoyance comes across as anger, sorry.

I don’t see why you think there are sore losers. We only accept our fate as it is. If it were something new for us, then maybe we’d be a bit mad, but the truth is, most of us fully expected to lose this one.

We failed on the recruitment side and versus night cappers, we are at the mercy of the third server slowing them down, it has nothing to do with WvW when we dont even have enough WvW players 75% of the time.

If accepting our fate comes off as being “sore losers” then so be it. It’s not like I dislike DH since the hackers left, I even keep telling Anet to merge our servers! It should really come off as being desperate for coverage more than anything else; we are.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks for all the answers might be hard for me to answer everyone but I’m up for a bit any questions I could answer?

How are decisions on designs and ideas reached within ANet? That actually could help with some suggestions.

How many devs completed their Season 1 WvW meta?

Has there been any kind of discussion about a /announce and a macro system for GW2 in the past (not necessarily tied to commanders) that may have been dropped for various reasons?

LostBalloon.6423:

Thorn.1703:

Regarding the scout point tree, I think the ability should not be to see them on the map, but just within targeting range. Different tiers might be like:
-Tier 1: Shows enemy commander icons within sight every 20 seconds for one second.
-Tier 2: 15 seconds
-Tier 3: 10 seconds
-Tier 4: 5 seconds
-Tier 5: Constantly

That would work with the timer of WvW ticks, every X seconds of it, it would send a ping of the commanders across the map, and anyone with that trait line would see it. You’re the programmers sooo yeah :P

If that would happen, guild groups would go back to running tagless and all the hard work ANET would put in commander tags would go to waist.

Waist or waste? that is the question!

gidorah.4960:

WilliamDaBloody.2591:

Soulbound or Account bound commander tag? Players do not follow character, they follow a player. Therefore I really like to see a commander tag to become account bound.

people don’t always know a commanders alt’s

I know their account names minus the numbers and I followed the ones that know what theyre doing (friend list)

SF are Forum Warrior Season 1 champions with 3 locked threads out of 7!

Solstice.1097:

Junkhaus.4301:

Superior AC w/ the zoom hackz to get our treb inside tower, wellplayed Ferg. Leet tactics at play, omigah.

90% of zoomhack accusations that do not include screenshots are false.

even 50%+ that do have screenshots are false. most of the time it’s called mastery + learn 2 AC.

not saying you couldn’t be right, just saying post some screenshots if you think someone’s zoomhacking.

Why screenshot when Anet flat out said, “everyone has access to the same thing so its fine”? A lot of people do it and it takes 5s to set up.

Righteous.4307:

Jeknar.6184:

The problem here is that even after beating SF and doing your chest thumping, HoD (or more specifically MU and VLK) keep comming stalking SF to keep talking crap about them… Maybe if you left SF alone, you wouldn’t “have enough” of the people that YOU are calling out.

There is a difference between chest thumping and defending your guild against statements that are not only false but also derogatory like this, “Good job, MU you are still PPT gazing bads with 2-4 thieves that like to duel.” – King A. Particularly when the statement comes from someone who refuses to backup his words with actions.

Secondly, HoD isn’t stalking SF. We have been following this matchup with interest because it is the matchup that determines second place in our league. This was a matchup everyone in bronze league NA was following. I wont begin to speak for everyone, but it is frustrating for me to see DH work hard and improve as a server between Week 1 and Week 7 only to then see some SF players say that DH is only beating SF because of the following excuses that have already been addressed: “Its black friday”, “It is the holiday break”, “SF doesn’t care about PPT”, “Winning doesn’t matter”, “We had to play HoD”, and the list goes on.

In regards to the current DH/SF matchup perhaps nobody said it better than Manoa:

Manoa.5897:

The SF in Dec 2012 is not the same server that you’re seeing now. Just as the HoD in Dec 2012 is not the same server we’re seeing now. And just as the ET in 2012 is not the same server we’re seeing now. And DH, and FC, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

At the end of the day, SF when we faced you I saw a lot of improvement. You all gave us some really fun fights, and I hope to face you again soon. I gained a lot of respect for most of your server over the coarse of our two week matchup, particularly those who came out week 2 despite losing week 1. However, you have to respect DH for really working hard and preparing for this matchup. DH lost to you all Week 1 with a significant point deficit. Week 7 DH came out swinging and showed that they had earned second place in Bronze league. Throwing out excuses as to why your server is currently losing rather than identifying weaknesses and working to improve them is probably why DH is beating SF this week.

Dreadforce.6980:

That said fighting HoD or DH during prime time was fun and if SF could get some overnight/morning guilds I think a great match would be SF/HoD/DH.

ArenaNet has yet to say what the matchups will be this Friday at the conclusion of WvW Season 1. Personally, I hope that they take the servers and place them exactly in the way they placed that season (1-9) within the league for the first week. Which would mean a HoD/DH/SF matchup exactly like you want. After that matchup the ladder could resume. I think the matchup would be a lot of fun and the perfect way to see Season 1 off for everyone.

I agree with that matchup. But we all know it will probably be HoD, Yak’s Bend and AR and SF will get DB and DR and DH will be stuck with GoM and ET. Because that’s how their broken system works.

SpiceTrader.1859:

DevonCarver.5370:

Summary of Day 1 of discussion:
With that out of the way, I have some more questions.
1) What is an acceptable amount of chat suppression for a commander? It’s important to realize that if the system remains as it currently does, with 100g for a tag, no chat suppression would mean that people can spend 100g to spam you with whatever they feel like. That’s not an acceptable solution. I think there are other things we could do, like provide a commander only channel that has no suppression but that people have to opt in to.

I think it’d be easiest to remove suppression for the squad chat channel. When there are multiple commanders on the map, they are giving commands to whoever is with them. This can get confusing and can clog up the team/map chats with different orders. It’d be better if commanders were encouraged to use squads more.

But not everyone can join a squad so it makes VoIP an obligation, might as well do nothing. The idea I had when I first suggested it was to make it so VoIP isn’t as significant an advantage as it is now based on what they said about 3rd party programs.