Guild Wars 2

Leo G.4501:

Djinn.9245:

So having RP in a public channel where everyone around knows exactly what they are saying / doing makes little sense for the RPer and even less sense for the non-RPer. Logically these exchanges should be done in Whisper or Party chat. The only reason I can think that people would prefer to do it in Say or Map is because they are “showing off”. RP does not = performing.

I don’t quite agree here. I’m not an in-game RPer but I do enjoy witnessing RPers interact. To me, it is a performance in that they are participating in a story and I’m attempting to infer what that story is…kind of like coming into a movie half-way. Kind okittenward but sometimes that’s the only way to find out if you want to watch the rest of it.

I might try to find a secluded spot nearby and just pretend I’m taking a nap or something and occasionally /whisper a question if things catch my interest. However, most of the time, I just continue on my merry non-afk way and do stuff or if I have business in that spot and don’t want to see the chatter scrolling my chat, I’ll swap to another tab just like if I’m tried of hearing BS or guild ads in /map.

Perhaps I’m being selfish in hoping some of the appropriate RP continues to occur in local avenues? But so long as the parties involved don’t mind, how much harm is it actually doing? I’d extend the same point to a newb getting help in /say or /map, is it something I need to listen to? No. Is it harming me? Not really. Can I avoid or ignore it? Most definitely. And I’d wager the devs tend to share the same perspective on that matter.

I’m just speaking of common sense. If the /say range was only as far as you could hear what I’m actually saying (not just hear that I’m making a noise) in normal conversation (8 ft?), then perhaps people wouldn’t be complaining about them taking over the channel. I’m not sure what the actual answer is, but I agree with those that say there is an issue.

Djinn.9245

So having RP in a public channel where everyone around knows exactly what they are saying / doing makes little sense for the RPer and even less sense for the non-RPer. Logically these exchanges should be done in Whisper or Party chat. The only reason I can think that people would prefer to do it in Say or Map is because they are “showing off”. RP does not = performing.

I think I need to re-clarify what the intent of suggestion /rp is for, just in case. It isn’t intended as a /map alternate, but a /emote alternate. That way, if someone wants to see RP messages in chat, they keep that channel open in a tab, just like someone who wants to keep /map or combat text in place.
So it would still be range-limited, and honestly, if /emote were reined in, it might not even be necessary. Consensus keeps coming back to that.

Seera.5916

If there are more than 5 people, I could see RP’ers not knowing about the squad feature using say/emote chat. Or in the rare instances where there are more than 10 people RP’ing the same thing.

Since I don’t own a dorito, I’m not even sure if regular players can form a squad outside of raid LFG. I certainly wouldn’t ask someone to shuck 300g for the privilege.
It’s out of simple courtesy that I always try to use party chat. The only time I’ve done otherwise was for larger guild events, and we didn’t use main cities for that.

Kinda why people are suggesting a /rp chat option, though. This way if you like to look into it, you can enable it, and if you don’t, you can disable it.

And then excessive use of /me and RP-related content in non-rp chat can be seen as spamming, and constant use of unrelated talk in the middle of someone’s rp monologue while in /rp can be seen as interfering/spamming as well.

So if it’s enabled by default, nothing changes in respects to getting new people into /rp, and quite honestly, the only people upset by the options are just people who want to be the center of attention of people who honestly currently do not give a kitten .

Gaile Gray.6029:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ERP can be reported. If it’s especially… graphic, then create a support ticket and include screenshots of the dialogue.

Yes, this is true. If you find the content offensive, not because you don’t like any roleplaying, but because a certain segment of roleplaying is crossing the line into sexually-related content, abusive chat, truly “offensive” content in the standard definition of the word, then use the in-game report system, please, and the team will review.

Not sure if someone has said this in the huge list of posts, but reporting someone who is just emoting their actions is not that easy. You can’t click on a person’s name when they emote and get anything back. You only get that it they post in /say or /map chat.

What you’re left with then is adding the person as a friend, then possibly reporting them that way..

Rauderi.8706:

Leo G.4501:

Rauderi.8706:

Leo G.4501:

And if that person decides not to rp in /rp? Do you expect it to be enforced? And those people will get banned for it?

Then they don’t RP in /rp. No big deal, but they can expect their special snowflake noncomformity to draw unwanted attention.
I’d expect ANet to present the option and considerate roleplayers to flock to it. Enforced? Nah. Bans? Nah.

So then it’s a useless addition. Thank you for wasting our time, playerbase.

So it has to have dedicated staff to be considered “useful” to you. Good to know. Maybe I can transition from my current job to Roleplaying Chat Moderator.

I think you’re getting it. I’m not taking you seriously, or most of the people whom argue “but I won’t be able to see the rare instance my friend adds some useless flavor text that I hardly pay attention to because I’ve read it 500 times before so already know what it says and ignore if I actually see his character’s animation” and I don’t think many of the devs do either.

Or maybe you’re using emotes to coordinate Octovine or some such zone boss and it’s really really necessary to keep emotes available…

Personally, I’m in the camp of “Y’all ain’t as interesting as you think you are” and “No one actually wants to see your latest episode of Angry Flirting in Rata Sum” but some people seem to think that they need to be seen doing something highly personal. That’s pretty inconsiderate, and the outcry against a reasonable remedy borders on histrionic.

The main problem with most RP is that if it is more than a passing greeting – if it is a conversation or meeting of more people, it would occur in a more private setting. People don’t generally air their private conversations in the middle of the bank, or work, or factory (crafting), etc. The most public would be at a bar or restaurant and it would be in a low voice so people would not overhear them.

So having RP in a public channel where everyone around knows exactly what they are saying / doing makes little sense for the RPer and even less sense for the non-RPer. Logically these exchanges should be done in Whisper or Party chat. The only reason I can think that people would prefer to do it in Say or Map is because they are “showing off”. RP does not = performing.

Leo G.4501:

Ashen.2907:

Seera.5916:

Balthazzarr.1349:

Seera.5916:

Miku.6297:

Leo G.4501:

I would still appreciate a response to my question: why is it so offensive that other people are using /say and /me (programmed to be local means of communication) to communicate with players locally in-character?

I never said it was offensive, it’s not. However some RP sessions are very chat space intensive, and as you said only aimed at the players involved. Yet everyone in the area sees the entire thing. People requesting a way to remove /me without removing emotes simply want the ability to filter out chat that is not aimed at them, and not offensive that does not include turning off (or moving chat tabs) for emotes, or blocking the other players.

That question I believe was to Balthazarr who apparently wants all RP’ers to go to a single specific zone to RP or not RP at all.

@Balthazarr: I see you’ve forgotten that GW2 is an MMO RP G. As in Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

If ANet did not want players RP’ing in the game, they would have already put in place rules to stop it. They have not. So you have two choices: accept that and continue playing without trying to push the RP’ers out of the game or not accept it but realize that nothing will change due to that lack of acceptance.

If this was really supposed to accommodate this kind of rp then anet should have made a special instance just for that and advertised it.

Either way I’m out of DR. You guys can have your fun and no worries about trolling from me at least.

The kind mentioned in the OP is technically not allowed by the game’s TOS no matter where it happens. Those that do wish to engage in such RP and are true RP’ers would be doing it in whisper or in party or in guild where all members who saw the post would be fine with it and not report it.

Those that do it in the open are either:

1. Trolls looking to paint RP’ers with a bad brush

or

2. An RP’er who accidentally got onto the wrong channel (not likely if you see a conversation going on between 2 or more RP’ers).

Given the description that the OP gave, it was likely group #1. Trolls. No amount of new channels or what not would keep those guys from trolling.

or…

3. An RP’er who is unaware of the TOS restriction on the mentioned form of RP.

4. An RP’er who doesn’t care about the TOS restriction on the mentioned form of RP.

3 would be warned and perhaps temp-banned if not informed by his friends. 4 would just get banned. Nobody cares about 4 or 1.

Change, “would,” to, “might,” and I’d agree.

The reality is that there are rule breakers and trolls in every sub group of online gamers, and they do not all get caught or punished.

Leo G.4501:

Rauderi.8706:

Leo G.4501:

And if that person decides not to rp in /rp? Do you expect it to be enforced? And those people will get banned for it?

Then they don’t RP in /rp. No big deal, but they can expect their special snowflake noncomformity to draw unwanted attention.
I’d expect ANet to present the option and considerate roleplayers to flock to it. Enforced? Nah. Bans? Nah.

So then it’s a useless addition. Thank you for wasting our time, playerbase.

So it has to have dedicated staff to be considered “useful” to you. Good to know. Maybe I can transition from my current job to Roleplaying Chat Moderator.

I think you’re getting it. I’m not taking you seriously, or most of the people whom argue “but I won’t be able to see the rare instance my friend adds some useless flavor text that I hardly pay attention to because I’ve read it 500 times before so already know what it says and ignore if I actually see his character’s animation” and I don’t think many of the devs do either.

Or maybe you’re using emotes to coordinate Octovine or some such zone boss and it’s really really necessary to keep emotes available…

Personally, I’m in the camp of “Y’all ain’t as interesting as you think you are” and “No one actually wants to see your latest episode of Angry Flirting in Rata Sum” but some people seem to think that they need to be seen doing something highly personal. That’s pretty inconsiderate, and the outcry against a reasonable remedy borders on histrionic.

Doggie.3184:

I’ve often found it rude of people to join a game’s NA/English server and spam global/map with a language other than English. I personally try to avoid doing it myself if I play a game on a foreign server.

If you look carefully at World selection screen, it doesn’t say “EN” on the regular worlds, it’s just the french, german, and spanish ones are specified. That could well be taken to mean that the other ones are more intended to be “international” in which case all languages are ok. Oh and there’s at least 2 official languages in North America, English and French…

If I see map chat I don’t understand, I’ll just assume it’s got nothing to do with me and move on.

Kamara.4187:

Such a channel would have to have moderators, which I’m all for.

Egad! Don’t make it seem like too much work for them, we need low-hanging-fruit mentality

It would need no more moderation than the custom emotes do now (to be fair, it would be nice to be able to click the name in emotes just as in say, either to block or to whisper compliments, send grateful mail, etc). If someone’s a jerk in /rp we deal with it the same way as we do in /em.

(Side note: I’ve never quite gotten why people prefer /me over /em for syntax … to me it’s like going “Me tarzan, me swing,” instead of shorthand for “emote.” Must be from an older game I never played that used /me exclusively. Happily typing /em in chat accomplishes the same thing or I’d go nuts, I tell you, nuts!).

Castitalus.6359:

1. Already answered this, none because rpers will still use emote and we are back to square one with people too lazy to use chat tabs.

2. By telling rpers there’s a specific chat channel for them to use so the regular playerbase can filter them out, obviously they are the problem and they need to be regulated to a chat channel instead of people not using chat tabs.

Seriously I’m assuming it’s just willful ignorance at this point that nobody wants to filter it out with a chat tab.

My apologies for being willfully ignorant. Please tell me how to have a chat tab that has all /map, /say, /party, /guild, and normal visual emotes on, with /me emotes off.

Letting normal visual emotes and /me emotes be different doesn’t put anyone in a corner.

Leo G.4501:

So who is really changing their gaming experience for whom here?

Well if emotes and /me emotes could be separated those that wanted to opt-out and still see normal emotes would need to make one change. That is all.

Donari.5237:

I’m an RPer who likes seeing the stories others are telling and I don’t feel corner-shoved by this. I really like it, so long as there are still custom emotes as they exist today. Then I can still see all the silly and fun stuff people do with custom emotes that aren’t part of RP scenes, but partition those from the narrative tales by customizing my tabs.

I fully empathize with those who don’t want to see the long blocks of text scrolling away the channel information that they do want but still want to see the occasional silly stuff. An additional channel designed to hold those blocks of text adds a good deal more flexibility to the chat system. If it starts out toggled on by default, then new players can spot the RP without having to be told where to look, and it’s a couple of quick clicks to remove it from view for those who find it irrelevant to their interests.

/repeats her call for a shorter range and brighter color because, gosh darn it, ANet needs those two things hammered home.

Highlighted for someone who gets it~
Underlined for priority action #1.

I’m glad to see the suggestion taken in the right way.

I’m an RPer who likes seeing the stories others are telling and I don’t feel corner-shoved by this. I really like it, so long as there are still custom emotes as they exist today. Then I can still see all the silly and fun stuff people do with custom emotes that aren’t part of RP scenes, but partition those from the narrative tales by customizing my tabs.

I fully empathize with those who don’t want to see the long blocks of text scrolling away the channel information that they do want but still want to see the occasional silly stuff. An additional channel designed to hold those blocks of text adds a good deal more flexibility to the chat system. If it starts out toggled on by default, then new players can spot the RP without having to be told where to look, and it’s a couple of quick clicks to remove it from view for those who find it irrelevant to their interests.

/repeats her call for a shorter range and brighter color because, gosh darn it, ANet needs those two things hammered home.

Some people feel that creating a space, is an insult I guess. It’s dividing them from everyone else. It’s all in each individuals mind set, either: A. creating a space divides them from others, or ostracizes them from non-rpers. or: B. creating a space creates a positive area for RP to be engaged in and encouraged.

Though the truth is just allowing /me emotes and standard emotes to be separate would have the same effect, just no change for how RPers currently do things. Only those that want to opt-out would need to change anything.

Tekey.7946:

How do we know that people complaining about RP are the majority?
The amount of people complaining about RP could be less than actual roleplayers.
And if 99% of the normal playerbase don’t care about reading RP in their chats, why should they change the game (for 1%)?

We don’t know, but we do know that the majority of players do not RP, the minority of players does RP. My question was more general, the person I quoted stated they disliked the idea because the majority of player base was forcing the minority to change. You took what I said out of context to the discussion that was being had ^^;

stale.9785:

So, those opposed are just against letting people not-involved opt out of the activity.

Everyone else MUST watch them do their thing, no matter their opinion of it. If they don’t want to, they can shut off /emote (which is used by people who don’t just RP) and /say (Which again, is used by people who don’t just RP) and give the RP crowd their own space, because having a system to let others opt-out is repressing them.

Did they just transmute from vague annoyance to professional victim?

Yeah, I’m not sure where the persecution complex is coming from on this. Or that the minority seems to be willing to sacrifice the majority so that they don’t have to change. A change that, if accommodated, would be better for their QoL overall:

• Creates a space where RP is not just tolerated, but encouraged
• Lets players opt out
• Reduces trolling/harassment from disinterested players
• Interested players can keep it active so they can find/stumble on other interested players

I just don’t see the negatives.

Look, what’s been asked for is if an emote is used in the /RP chat, it only displays in the /RP chat. Ditto custom emotes, plus all general chatter.

That way, the bulk of the playerbase, who salute and wave at friends and guildies, don’t have to slog through five billion lines of extremely niche players posting their fantasies for the world to see, be they fantasies about how pants in Tyria work, or the ERP that tends to be the most notable, if only for its content.

Nobody is asking RPers to stop – we’re more asking that they don’t forcibly involve the entire instance in their niche activity.

Yea, Stale, that’s kind of what I’m getting from this too.

Castitalus.6359:

Please explain the solution for rpers wanting to keep using emotes and not be shoved into a corner because someone on a forum made a post about it? I really don’t see the reason why rpers should be punished for using in game tools. You have an Anet employee suggesting tabs in this very thread, is that not indicative of their stance on it?

And there would be no change since rpers would use emotes anyway and we are back to square one with people not wanting to use tabs. Unless you want to make a thread on the gw2rp forums about it and get their opinions, but we both know how that will go.

How exactly does allowing /me to be turned off while normal visual emotes remain on shove RPers into a corner?

If /me could be turned off and normal emotes left on it would literally have NO negative impact on RPers, they wouldn’t have to change a single thing. Those that didn’t want to see the /me emotes would simply opt out.

How ever the issue of people not being able to turn off just the custom /me emotes while leaving standard emotes on would be solved, thus solving the issue. So it’s certainly not “back to square one”

So, those opposed are just against letting people not-involved opt out of the activity.

Everyone else MUST watch them do their thing, no matter their opinion of it. If they don’t want to, they can shut off /emote (which is used by people who don’t just RP) and /say (Which again, is used by people who don’t just RP) and give the RP crowd their own space, because having a system to let others opt-out is repressing them.

Did they just transmute from vague annoyance to professional victim?

Castitalus.6359:

When there’s already a solution to a minor problem in game via chat tabs nobody seems to want to use? Yes.

And there would be no change since unless the new channel was enforced by Anet and rpers had to use it instead of emote. I don’t see it happening, especially when this thread will be cited as the reason why.

Please explain the solution for people that wish to have the standard visual game emotes (/dance/wave etc) on their main play tab with /me emotes off.

How much change would it really be to RPers if /me and normal visual emotes were separated so you could turn of /me without turning off emotes?

Castitalus.6359:

I agree with reducing emote range as it is currently far too large. What I don’t agree with however is the rp channel itself because the only argument for it is “I shouldn’t have to change my gaming experience and use different tabs, the rp community is a minority and therefore should change to accommodate me instead.”

That view is implied and not stated. I would support the idea of an RP channel or dividing /me from visual emotes. I do RP and can understand why some people would want the chat filtered out while leaving normal emotes on.

Just to play devil’s advocate, are you saying the majority of players should change their gaming experience to accommodate the minority?

How much change would it really be to RPers if /me and normal visual emotes were separated so you could turn of /me without turning off emotes?

penelopehannibal.8947:

I think if they were to create a separate /rp channel, (I’m still against it, there’s nothing wrong with using /say since most RP is done away from PvE areas and affects very few people) and they would have to enforce RPers using it, then by an equal notion, they should do something about RP trolls i.e. those who would use the /rp channel to disrupt RP. This would be very hard to enforce and very difficult to establish what does and does not constitute as RP, so I honestly can’t see it happening either way.

We’d leave enforcement up to reporting and blocking, of course, but it’d be much easier to identify a troll in /rp than someone randomly spamming /sit ten times in a row. But that’s also where Big QoL Item #2 (#1 being smaller emote range) comes in, making report/block available from emoted posts.

Also, I think the idea of using /rp as the only channel/command for RP might be a misinterpretation. I hadn’t seen much angst about the use of /say. It’s the /emote range and visibility that’s causing irritation. The use of /say seems to be well-accepted.

I suppose if ANet’s looking for action items, the order is:

1. Reduce the range of /emote
2. Make names in emotes clickable to report spam/abuse and block offenders
3. If that proves to be insufficient, then institute a /rp command that mimics /emote but acts as a separate channel, so that non-roleplayers can opt out of it.

DuskyInsanePoet.4218:

-History is written by the winners.

In this case, history was written by the survivors. No one won during the last dragon rise…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Then Episode 2 came, which redacted “they betrayed the others” into “they were betrayed” with questions raised.

Episode 2 hasn’t definitively said that the mursaat were betrayed, it just has the mursaat claim they were betrayed. Lying about their history to cover up their crimes and make themselves seem the wronged party is entirely in keeping with what we’ve seen of the mursaat in the past.

Of course the present-day mursaat may well believe that what’s been written is true, assuming they’re not so long lived that those seen in GW1 had survived since the previous dragon rise.

This also wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen conflicting histories like this, with the human and charr histories differing to each make it seem like the other race was the villain.

Zilong.1407:

Just to make sure, you do know that most of their actions were taken to safeguard the world from the return of the titans by keeping the Door of Komali shut right? As the players back in GW1 we kinda screwed the pooch on that one and then had to fix it again in Nightfall.

False.

Their actions were taken to safeguard THEMSELVES and only themselves.

Until Episode 2, there was never, ever, any indication that the mursaat cared about anyone but themselves.

And we fixed in the final mission and post-story quests (dubbed the titan quests). Nightfall had nothing to do with cleaning up the mess made in Prophecies, though we find out that Khilbron and the titans were tied to Abaddon and that we, in fixing our mess in Prophecies, inadvertently slowed Abaddon’s plans.

X T D.6458:

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy. Who just might be a temporary ally to fight the bigger threat… until they become the bigger threat via deception that is the mursaat MO.

Same thing we did with Joko. Except for one thing…

X T D.6458:

Cough…Palawa Joko…Cough…

Joko never even pretended to be our permanent ally. He saw us as useful tools, we saw him as a necessary evil.

There was no redemption. Not even deception. Everyone knew exactly where things stood.

Cough…Palawa Joko…Cough…

Sarevok.2638:

Humans have a BIG thing against the mursaat, remember the Saul incident?

Krytans, specifically. Ask a citizen of Ebonhawke however, and you will likely find they’d rather trust a Mursaat than a Charr.
And Sylvari, Norns and Asurans are unlikely to have any strong prejudices at all. It’s not like Mursaat ever done anything to them, after all.

Still, to answer the OP: Where exactly did you seem him behaving like a good guy? Because i sure didn’t. What i see is him pulling a second Saul D’Alessio case, because it (specifically: killing elder dragons) is in his interests. Granted, he doesn’t need to keep the Doors of Komalie shut this time, so he may not need any more blood sacrifices, but it doesn’t mean he won’t cross us over at the first opportunity as soon as it will suit his neeeds.

TL/DR: i don’t see a good guy here. I just see a very pragmatic (and charismatic) villain that doesn’t resort to violence as his first conversation option.

I don’t believe for a moment that he has any “good” intention.

At the very least, he needs our help to fight the dragons, so that he can then move forward with his plan to wipe us out (which he can’t do with the dragons in the way).

And here’s the thing. What the Mursaat see as a betrayal isn’t really a betrayal, it was a difference of opinion. I mean, the other races didn’t promise to come and fail to show up. They refused to join outright, and the Mursaat went through with it anyways and failed. That’s not a betrayal, it was making a bad choice.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Funny how you only use that tiny sentence out of context support your argument. If you read the other tablets it clearly shows they were trying to save Tyria with the other races, but the other races supposedly betrayed/abandoned them and only after that, they said that the world will be theirs.

I’m thinking GW1 supports my argument as well. You know those major events that happened right after those tablets supposedly got carved. Where they manipulated an entire nation and sacrificed thousands of people for their own needs? Those events add a lot of context to the Mursaat situation.

Past good intention are all well and good, but it’s only current intentions that matter in the end of day. The Mursaat might have been a good race once upon a time, but they sure in the hell weren’t during GW1. Lazarus might be trying to turn over a new leaf now, but we simply can’t trust him because some tablets laying on the ground paint out a sob story thousands of years old.

Lazarus was a part of the events that happened in Kryta. There is no refuting that point. His ancestors might have had a harsh deal, he might have had a harsh deal, but doesn’t give him leeway when it comes to organizing the deaths of thousands for your own gain. He has a lot of ground to cover to becoming even remotely trustworthy or “a good guy”.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

They also seemingly retconned much of the Mursaat lore with those tablets in Ember’s Bay. Basically the Mursaat are the missunderstood good guys all of a sudden.

X. The Forgotten allied with Glint and ignored the now to focus on the future. We mursaat… we returned and built a base among the Fire Islands, as strong as ever. The world will one day be ours.

Yep. Totally misunderstood good guys…. >.>

They’re still a villainous race. Anet just tried to give them more reasosn on why a whole race might want to kill/enslave/rule everything. In there mind, they were the one’s betrayed. This is just their extended self-preservation/revenge scheme now.