Guild Wars 2

Reading more and more of posts about OP necro, I can’t really find a good argument that make the “accusers” prove their point.

It seems mostly cause by 2 things:
-Ignorance of the class that killed them.
-False evidence of what exactly killed them. (Even worse in PvP, with a Death log that doesn’t represent what happened, just numbers from highest to lowest, and a combat log that doesn’t show all numbers.)

Some myths about OP condi necro 30/20/0/0/20 build:

- They have unblockable marks that can one shot you from 1200 yards.

- They can burst from 1200 range (when the real “burst” is under 600)

- Terror damage is OP (we’re talking about 1k damage a second, removable by both Stunbreakers AND conditions removal and negated with Stability before hand.)

- OP necro seems to have up to 8 or 9 skills slot at all time: They can use Signet of Spite, Epidemic, Spectral wall, Spectral armor, Plague Signet, Corrupt boon, and all wells, all instant cast, with no way to evade/invulnerable/block them.

- All necro are 30/20/20 conditions, therefore when I kill someone with a DS power crit build or a MM vampire build, I’m a noob with a FotM class.

- Plague gives you 20 second of invulnerability.

So can anybody tell me why exactly is necro OP? In a 1v1 setting that favors the necro if he starts with full lifeforce and full Corruption stacks? I really think that class knowledge is the real issue here, exactly like when I hated facing thief until I started one and just learned what they could/couldnt do and what to counter and how to do it.

@Haccks: About the loser who can’t dodge a hammer strike: The point is, you will get hit by one sooner or later with only 1 dodge every 10 sec, and when you do get hit, it will hit more than a full 5 sec of Terror, except the damage is instant and knocks you down. I don’t know about you, but I don’t become invulnerable when I’m knock down for 2-3 second, so every hit still register, exactly like Fear/Terror.

So I really don’t see why Terror needs another damage nerf. Being CC for 2-3 sec can be lethal to anyone regardless of the skill used to CC if you’re caught without a stunbreak.

Scarlet Briar: “Die die die. Die die die, die die.”
Players: “Zerg zerg zerg. Zerg zerg zerg, zerg zerg.”

I did 3 last night and all 3 were completed including beating Scarlet. One of them even had 12 minutes to spare.

Scarlet is modeled after the Joker’s girlfriend Harley Quinn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley_Quinn

Lord Faren is Batman. He is wealthy and fell down a dark hole. Fits the profile to the letter.

The first appearance of DC’s ‘Joker’ was in Detective Comics #168 from 1951. Rather than being named ‘Joker’, he instead appeared as the first incarnation of the ‘Red Hood’.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Elbegast.6970:

The first appearance of DC’s ‘Joker’ was in Detective Comics #168 from 1951. Rather than being named ‘Joker’, he instead appeared as the first incarnation of the ‘Red Hood’.

And?

I’m sorry. If you can’t see the connection then I can’t help you. Perhaps you should read more comics?

Hobo-tron is Batman. Not the robot we want, but the one we need. Etc.

Rytlock can be catwoman…

So we need Batman. Logan is coward, he can’t be Batman.

Little side notes:
a) We used to have way more minions in beta (if traited 4 bone minions, 2 bone fiends and i think a option for multiple wurms), was too op because they soaked all aoe
b) I suggested that a long time ago for many necro skills, to use the charge mechanic (hold the button longer, it casts longer, more effects), thus you could summon more minions at the cost of not being able to use DS (grayed out like we have no LF) and pieces of LF being locked off (like Deep Wound/Overcast in GW), problem that comes with it How cooldowns work with em (its already kitten y when you use putrid and your full hp bone next to you explodes instead of the 1% hp one next to a enemy) and it would probably require to be a trait (and no necro wants more minion traits).

How about if instead of death shroud, life force can be used to caste many different minions? That would be pretty kitten. And amazing.

Use search option and type in the following words Nemesis Guide.

If you are too lazy, here is a typical Power glass build with no special requirement items: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW3djMaV6ZaiaM8JEoH5St4MRFGGqHrD68hA-jQyAYLBZ6DAJCmKAl8KiGbboIasqFMVJRUt3oIa1SBExCA-e

Been suggested before + we need to see cooldown of utility skills in DS.

I don’t know how often Anet reads these forums but I hope they will see this suggestion and take it into consideration for a future update.

I would like a change in the UI that shows the cooldowns of Death Shroud skills when you are not in DS (preferably just above the life force bar).

For example, as a terrormancer it’s very important to know when Doom is off of cooldown to be used effectively. Sometimes I have to enter DS just to check the cooldowns on DS skills since counting seconds in your head while concentrating on a fight in PvP is not a very reliable way to keep track of such things.

It’s important to know the cooldowns of pretty much every skill in DS except Life Blast.

Dietzen.6127:

hackks.3687:

Then you discovered that Engi’s are building to hard counter condis and more specifically Necros. I’m sure you saw more than a couple Warriors rocking Mace/Shield and Berserkers Stance since that’s virtually a 100% hard counter to Necros as well.

Thank you though for doing everyone a favor of playing some PvP and reporting back that Necro’s OPness is in fact not an L2P issue on the community’s part because as you clearly discovered people are in fact building deliberately to counter conditions and Necros and not simply holding on to their old builds. If multiple classes are deliberately building to counter a particular class and a particular form of damage, I don’t know what else there is to convince people that Necros are in fact OP… that is, until they run into one of the various hard counters.

They do not only counter necros, they counter every class. Because people adapt and change their build, is not equal to necros are OP. It is however, an expression of adaptation, nothing else. If we now have to change up our builds, to beat the new stunlock warriors, then this would be the same as saying warriors are OP, according to your reasoning. However it is not, this would simply be the meta changing.
Necros are not OP, because several classes have opted to change their builds. Necros are not OP, because people now pack condi clears. Necros are not OP because people specifically aim one or more utilities to counter them.
Again, if this is the reasoning, then every class would be called OP, every time you have to adapt and change things up.

Note, I am NOT saying the necro is OP, I am NOT saying the necro is not OP. I’m arguing against your reasoning.

I agree some classes have adapted to us having more damage, but this new adaptation is not only aimed towards us… but any other class. Damage immunity is damage immunity… stun lock is stun lock…

When 2 thieves meet they try to one shot each other, if they fail they run away and arrive at a different location to snipe someone else. When two warriors meet they try to stun lock each other, when one gets stun locked he uses perma immunity to damage then tries to stun lock back…

So i ask you this my friends… since we can’t disappear from a fight when ever we want, since we can’t use invulnerability when ever we want, since we can’t one shot people, since we can’t fully heal every 10 seconds…

How do we counter invulnerability and max mobility ?

Anyone care to explain to me how you counter being one shot by something that is immune to your damage for a little while, and if you survive he disappears into the distance without you being able to follow… only to come back again when ever he feels like it (aka elementalist and thief).

I’ve killed hundreds if not thousands of thieves, and at least 50+ were cursing me on whisper, raging and saying the most interesting things… so i’m no pushover… but every time a thief died is because he overextended, he though he could take me…

If a thief doesn’t want to die to me he never will… ever… if i don’t want to die to a thief, i better pray to god i don’t have half my skills on CD when he decides to snipe me from stealth…

So… how do you counter 4 stun locking warriors, how do you counter 1 shoting elementalist that always leaves combat if he fails to one shot you, how do you counter 1 shoting thief that always leaves combat if he fails to one shot you…

Basically how do you counter invulnerability, stealth… and blinking away…
Most classes don’t have that problem since they counter it with invulnerability, stealth… and blinking away of their own.

Why am i constantly being forced to kill people only IF they are stupid enough to fight with a superior opponent… and yes, i am superior because i’ve killed them… but even though inferior they always have a chance to leave combat and not suffer defeat.

If i am faced with a superior opponent… hohoho…

edit: this morning every single opponent i met, either tried to one shot me then run away… or stun lock me then run away… all i could do was survive that and… walk with swiftness towards the location they were heading…
Stopping them from doing that is not an option… unless someone teaches me how to damage invulnerable or stealthed blinking characters…

hackks.3687:

Then you discovered that Engi’s are building to hard counter condis and more specifically Necros. I’m sure you saw more than a couple Warriors rocking Mace/Shield and Berserkers Stance since that’s virtually a 100% hard counter to Necros as well.

Thank you though for doing everyone a favor of playing some PvP and reporting back that Necro’s OPness is in fact not an L2P issue on the community’s part because as you clearly discovered people are in fact building deliberately to counter conditions and Necros and not simply holding on to their old builds. If multiple classes are deliberately building to counter a particular class and a particular form of damage, I don’t know what else there is to convince people that Necros are in fact OP… that is, until they run into one of the various hard counters.

They do not only counter necros, they counter every class. Because people adapt and change their build, is not equal to necros are OP. It is however, an expression of adaptation, nothing else. If we now have to change up our builds, to beat the new stunlock warriors, then this would be the same as saying warriors are OP, according to your reasoning. However it is not, this would simply be the meta changing.
Necros are not OP, because several classes have opted to change their builds. Necros are not OP, because people now pack condi clears. Necros are not OP because people specifically aim one or more utilities to counter them.
Again, if this is the reasoning, then every class would be called OP, every time you have to adapt and change things up.

Note, I am NOT saying the necro is OP, I am NOT saying the necro is not OP. I’m arguing against your reasoning.

Going to ignore what hackks said since i am sure it is some sort of elaborate comeback aimed at me admitting defeat.

The story continues… was just in a TPvP match vs 4 stun locking warriors, they facerolled us so badly i started laughing…

So basically i think they were calling out targets, then pressing all together (not even synchronized) stun… and then stun stun stun stun stun stun stun stun stun… every time we tried to fight back they immediately went into block and condition immunity with stability on top, and then more stun stun stun stun.

Playing with 4 buttons is it ?… and steam rolling everyone i understand me as a necromancer which doesn’t have stability unless you use a SR 30 build, but they face rolled all of us…

My wish is this… i wish more people would realize how easy it is to faceroll as stunners… and when the entire TPvP meta becomes a stun fest… THEN we will see balance.

GeeeGeee

PS: anyone ever got 1 shoted by an elementalists before ?… was scratching my eye, and i saw an elementalist… and i was like pfff and by the time i put my hand back on my mouse i died.

Bhawb.7408:

@sas, toxic gameplay is when gameplay is bad for one or both sides. Generally it involves very little play/counterplay, or the play/counterplay is badly designed. Right now condi Necromancer play/counterplay is based around the Necromancer wanting to get out massive amounts of damage in the best spikes they can (there is some interesting play/counterplay in baiting out cleanses/stun breaks, but that is about it) because they have very little meaningful sustain/escape, and the enemy team tries to kill them as quickly as possible, or at least pressure them so hard they can’t effectively do their bursts. The entire play/counterplay there is a game of who kills who faster. Another problem is that the condi Necromancer’s burst has relatively small tells. They have been fixing this with the new casting animation on stakitten , but it is still possible to get chain feared and condi bursted.

Other toxic gameplay examples are stunlocking warriors and the old backstab thief.

Again, this is pretty much straight obfuscation. There are many, many examples of gameplay that is bad for one side, that don’t involve much counterplay. Most if not all PvP pretty well boils down to who kills who faster. Condi necro play is “toxic” because a few teams found themselves on the losing end and then cried about it and made some cherry picked videos instead of adjusting. Strategies used by those teams previously wasn’t, of course, to be considered toxic, even though teams consisting of say rangers and necros probably wouldn’t have fun playing against those strategies.

I heard that evolving metas were a really fun part of the game. I didn’t realize they’d induce so many tears amongst the e-sports crowd.

Both power and conditions builds can be made for competative GvG small scale and large scale fights. One is not better then the other they just fill roles near opposite each other in larger scale fights if done right.

Go with what you enjoy.

If she had Master of Terror, she definitely had Last Gasp, which is a very strong method of rapidly refilling your life force. However, for conditionmancers, that’s generally it.

Here’s what you know: her trait choices have virtually no defense (only the aforementioned Last Gasp). Two of her utility slots don’t do much in a 1v1 (Signet of the Locust and Epidemic which is useless in a duel). She at most has one stunbreak, but she either has that or boon stripping: she doesn’t get both. Chances are, she forgot a stunbreak entirely and went with Spectral Wall (another good way to quickly recoup life force against groups and key to serious chain-fearing) You should know this one better than I.

Plague Signet is the best stunbreak you can ask for against a condition necro, especially if you can bait their Consume Conditions before that (Power necros should be able to) Smart necros that see that icon on you will be wary about their rotations, which is exactly what you want.

Spectral Grasp helps keep their fears off of you for longer, but is more effectively used to interrupt Life Transfer.

Finally, Well of Power. A second stunbreak is handy and, once again, it takes care of your condition problems. The one you were facing I highly doubt was packing any boon stripping, so this is all gain for you.

That said, take my advice with a grain of salt. I only play condition builds on my necro right now, so how well a power necro can work out is not something I am familiar with.

TIFour.1076:

As far as I can tell, I know that a Dagger/Dagger Necromancer with Quickening Thirst and the Locust Signet is the route to go, but I do not know where to go from there. Should I focus on power because of the Dagger or Condition through crits and Bleed damage? Also, how is the Necromancer at healing? I know that there are not very many healing centric options in the game, but can the utility of a Necromancer decently help with healing?

As others have mentioned, take either Quickening Thirst or Signet of the Locust , not both at the same time. They’re both really good options for map movement, though. Signet of the Locust’s active is kinda bad but you could always swap it out before fighting.

Another popular MS option is to take Warhorn and slot Spectral Walk. With some boon duration, you can get near perma-swiftness by spamming Locust Swarm and Spectral Walk, and you get true perma-swiftness if you take the Spectral cooldown trait (the Warhorn cooldown trait is pretty strong too). The downside of this is that you don’t have Spectral Walk available to use all the time, but if you get caught in a fight, you just have to stall until it comes back (whereas you’d be stuck with Signet of the Locust).

As for healing, you’ll heal varying opinions about it. I’ve personally never been all that impressed with Necro healing. We don’t have the worst sustain in the game (Consume Conditions alone is great for this), but Life Siphoning isn’t quite good enough to heal as well as, say, an Elementalist with 20-30 in Water. The big issues are that a) Life Siphoning doesn’t scale with anything except number of hits so you get wimpy healing against one target and pretty ok healing against 5 targets, but if you’re roaming and get caught by 5 targets it’s still not nearly enough to save you from the focus fire of 5 people, and b) our health bar can’t be healed while we’re in Death Shroud. I tried a Life Siphoning well build in a few zerg fights some weeks about and it actually seemed to work pretty well, as long as I was careful to stay out of DS until I really really needed it. But I don’t think it would’ve worked so well if I were running by myself.

EDIT: Oh, and D/D is just fine for WvW. You’ll want to stack power (and probably precision and crit damage) to take advantage of #1’s insane DPS, use #3 for preventing escape, and use #4 and #5 for defense. The bleeds will be kinda pointless but at least they’ll help cover the Weakness (which will eviscerate any power spec’s damage).

TIFour.1076:

I primarily would like to focus on defense in WvW. I like setting up defensive siege on the map and keeping eyes open for map activity to report to the commanders. I also enjoy repairing damage done to attacked locations on the map and defending locations from attacks with siege. As anyone who plays WvW can guess, this requires a character that can move around the map pretty fast and also a character that is great for AoE disruption of the enemy in the event that I have no siege to rely upon.

It sounds like you want either a Thief or an Elementalist for that. Necros are great in WvW, but if you’re specifically interested in map mobility, it’s hard to imagine a worse profession. Maybe the Guardian, who doesn’t have passive Movement Speed boosts, but I dunno.

Thieves make for the best scouts, period. They can tail a zerg with near-total impunity, get into any besieged building with stealth and teleports, and spam #2 on their shortbow for serious sustained AoE damage. It’s only 900 range, but you can use it on the inside of a door to deal major damage to the people on the outside of the door with 0 chance of retaliation (except, of course, for the boon Retaliation).

Elementalists are also pretty good scouts, though they have a harder time escaping than Thieves after their string of nerfs. It’s also virtually impossible to prevent an Ele from making it into a tower: they can use blinks and invulnerability moves to get near the tower and then pop Vapor Form if they fall to make it inside. Once inside, you can switch to Staff and get some of the best anti-zerg AoEs in the game. I tend to prefer throwing spells on my Ele to using arrow carts.

That said, if you keep your distance from the zerg, there are a few tricks you can use as a Necro to scout fairly safely. A purely defensive build with 20 in Death Magic for Reaper’s Protection and 30 in Blood Magic for all the Life Siphoning effects would be very difficult for roamers to take out quickly, potentially giving you time to escape to the nearest tower. It isn’t going to be the sure escape of a Thief, though; you’re going to have to work for your escape.

Making it inside besieged towers can also be tough for Necros as we don’t have any ways to avoid getting hit by the entire zerg. What you could do is pack some stunbreakers and start in Death Shroud, dodge twice, stunbreak when your DS dies, then pop Plague and hope you don’t get Immobilized for too long before making it to the tower. I’ve done it before, but it’s far from a sure thing.

Once you’re in the tower, our Staff can be really good for area denial or damage, but you’re not going to be able to deal as much damage as a Thief spamming #2 on the shortbow or an Ele blowing all their spells. Both of those guys are way better for taking out rams from the inside, for example.

THAT SAID, Necros are really strong in WvW. Build them power or condition, go class or tanky, take wells or corruptions or spectral skills, focus on Life Siphoning or even AoE healing, all those builds have their place and can work. We excel in zerg fights (as long as you make sure to position well and keep Plague slotted as an oh-kitten button) and can even roam pretty well as long as you avoid fighting more than 2 people at a time, but as far as mobility and disengagement go, those just aren’t supposed to be what the Necro is good at.

(continued in next post)

Synthetic Ian.9625:

they said themselves that there was a trinity in the game, i don’t see how people keep thinking they designed without its trinity in mind.

Did they say there was a trinity in game because they designed it to have one, or did they say it to appeal to people who can’t live without putting things in boxes.

A lot of times companies say and do things to sell their product. Like when Microsoft Word when from version 2 to version 6. Versions 3, 4 and 5 never existed. They simply realized that Word Prefect was up to version six and their version was lower, so they upped it.

It doesn’t make it the sixth version.

I don’t believe Anet had a trinity in mind when they designed this game. But I do believe they felt a lot of people would feel more comfortable if they thought that was the case.

Edit: Case in point, people run CoF path 1 with 4 zerker warriors and a zerk mesmer. Almost all Damage, no real support or healing at all.

Bhawb.7408:

sas.6483:

… on the one hand I feel as if I’m being a bit unfair, but then again I actually think you have these positions and haven’t really thought them through. So I feel justified.

I want good balance for Necromancers. Having a build that has some of the highest burst condition damage and such toxic gameplay stay around is not good for us.

…

We are not balanced right now. One build is over the top strong, and most of the rest of our builds are either too dependent on teamwork (which just isn’t that fun to play for the majority of people) or are too weak in general. However once that OP build is toned down to proper balance, ANet might finally realize, again, that we are still in need of buffs to bring us up to good balance.

Let me translate the buzzwords. “Toxic gameplay” just means a meta evolving in ways certain players don’t like and are unwilling to adapt to. The junk about “condition burst” is bunk based on the math, which has been posted probably dozens of times. Acting like condition burst is somehow different and more out of line than DD burst is pretty much doublespeak. “Balance” is what everybody wants when they’re QQing about something they don’t like and ignores when gameplay suits them. Pretending that a few builds won’t stand out for certain applications is just silly, and pretending certain classes won’t have certain niches is also silly.

As far as going through another nerf / buff cycle, here is an aggregate of what has been roughly proposed in this thread. The new condition necromancer will have:

No terror damage.
No Dhuumfire.
A 2 second bleed and / or no poison on scepter 1. (No idea why there is crying about scepter 1 of all things now, but there it is.)
Slower than 1 second casts with massive animations.
Reduced lifeforce generation / lower sustain.

Inform us how you propose to buff the condition damage necro so that they will be fun to play, capable in 1v1s against other classes, distinct from a power necro, etc. Healing through death shroud and improvements to necro stability are out of bounds.

and then we never saw hackks again….

hackks.3687:

LOL. kitten I wish these boards didn’t bug out so much so I could quote stuff here. You guys dropped some beauties in there!!!!

@ Nemesis: Let’s just get this out of the way: Necro was the first class I rolled at release, and my 2k+ tpvp matches would beg to differ with your opinion on my “depth of necro knowledge”. And did you really link a shot from WvW of Thief’s backstab damage for a comparison to Terror? lolwut??? I don’t even have words for you honestly. Your little vids might be enough to garner the admiration of those who obviously know less than you about the class, but anyone with any real understanding knows your mostly clueless. There’s no need to debate that further.

Hahaha… 2000 games played on your “OP necromancer” and you’re still nowhere near top 500. But of course anyone with real understanding of the necromancers knows i’m clueless.
Ever think for a second that if you say something like this i would verify this… i can you know. But no… it’s easier to dodge a subject and a fair point that i’ve made with words like… “i don’t even have words for you honestly + we all know you are clueless + no need to talk about this further”.
You forget i’ve been around internet a long while now, i know these shenanigans… they don’t work on me.

In solo que you have 46.29% win ratio with 81 wins 94 wins position 874 with your OP necromancer.
In team you have 50.64% with 1068 wins 1041 losses but you are still just a percentage on the leaderboards.
Now my initial statement i admit i was wrong… i thought that by what you are saying you can not possibly know how the necromancer is played.
I was wrong… you do have a lot more TPvP experience then me… yet you are weaker while assuming necromancer is OP. How low would you be in rankings if necromancers gets nerfed even more…
After 2000 games ? Really ?… Get more OP necromancers mate… after 2000 games you should be wayyyyyy higher with the OP necromancer. But of course… what do i know… i’m clueless…

I’m done posting about balance and taking the time to actually remember scenarios that happend to prove a point, only to be trolled by people that in 2000 games didn’t manage to get off percentages in leaderboards… with the usual shenanigans… “i have no words for the likes of you”.

You don’t… good luck to you in the future, maybe once you reach 4000 games you’ll be better.

As for the necromancer, if it is OP it will get nerfed… if it is UP it will get buffed… ArenaNet is taking their time with both of these since the feedback that they are getting is never really objective…
Including mine… maybe it requires more skill to perma stealth while doing damage, or to use the 90% of the time you dodge abilities on thief then what it requires me to counter him… so the fact that i counter with less skill something that requires way more skill makes me OP trully. I don’t know… never played thief…

But at the same time… like i said and described scenarios, i’m a lot of the time faced with “nothing i can do” scenarios because the target is SIMPLY IMMUNE to everything i have (either by stealth or perma block perma dodge or just plain old immunity) and after that they leave combat with no way for me to stop them. I truly only win when i survive their immunities and 6 seconds stuns while being 1 shot and they still didn’t leave combat… it should have been clear by then that i am more skilled then them… since when i do a chain fear + damage they die but i never do it first… i always must survive their initial damage, i play on their terms always… And they do have the option of always leaving, i never do…
Yet i am called OP noob when they die…

Since my previous post is too long to edit this in I’ll just doublepost. :P
Naughty me!

In my opinion Anet should bring down our Condition damage builds.
Bring them down to the level of our Power ones.

After this give us more survivability and a better counter to stunlocks and burst.
That way Necro would be more balanced overall than the 1-build wonder it is now.

Not to mention it’d be more fun.
We wouldn’t always gets bursted/focused and the poor, poor Mesmers wouldn’t melt so badly anymore.

oZii.2864:

LastDay.3524:

oZii.2864:

but some people really think one day every class will be able to support just as good as a guardian(which will never happen)

Their statement about not every Profession being capable of everything is talking about specific things, not the big picture.

A Support Necro shouldn’t Block+Heal the way a Guardian does, but they should still support just as well as a Guardian does.
And perhaps one day they shall.

I just doubt that’s anytime soon.
It’s worth noting that pre-launch Necro was insanely overpowered as a bunker, and now they are terrible at that role.
It takes surprisingly little to change things completely.

No it isn’t specific not every class will do everything as other professions some classes will inherently be better at different roles than other classes intentionally. Right now elementalist is the second best healer in the game after guardian it will never be the best healer that is intended. Elementalist goes against your notion that it is specific because elementalist jack of all trades master of none. If you go look at a old SoTG Chaplan was asked if thief is intended to be the best burst damage class he said “Yes” which means no class will ever be as good at burst damage as a thief (single target and aoe with cleave is another story that title is probably warriors to claim).

-snip for length, I did read it!-

My point was that to claim “every Necro is meant to go condi damage and every Guardian is meant to go bunker! Other builds are meant to be weaker!” is just completely wrong, and something that I’ve heard people say over and over since the launch.

The 3 roles in GW2 are called Damage, Control and Support.
They are VERY broad concepts.

Every Profession is meant to be good at these, although some may always partially lean towards a particular direction.
As an example an Elementalist is meant to maintain a lot of versatility, whereas a Necromancer is meant to always lean towards Control in every build.
Same with Warrior and Damage.

Bursting is what I consider a specific thing.
Dealing Power-based damage is an overall, big picture thing.

So like you already guessed I meant VERY broadly.

A Necro should be a viable Power damage dealer.
That doesn’t mean they need to burst like a Thief or deal as much damage as a Warrior.
Nor even be quite as fast as those two.
It just means they need ways to dish out respectable amounts of Power damage and throw their own twist to it.

In Necro’s case they are meant to make up for the pure damage by having Chills, Cripple, Vulnerability and of course Death Shroud.
Lots of Control and Survivability compared to Warrior and Thief.

Pure damage is king in most of PvE, which is why you see Warriors everywhere in there.
On the flipside despite Warrior’s huge damage output they are far from the best damage dealer in PvP.
Not because they don’t deal enough damage under the right conditions, but because they lack in things that are needed in PvP.

The reason I mentioned this PvE stuff is because it shows you how in PvP even a role like “Power Damage Dealer” holds things other than just damage important.

PvE is eventually meant to value similar things, so it’s balance will eventually be closer to PvP than it is now.
The lack of Defiant on some of the new mobs and their high damage output are signs of the new direction slowly coming up.

Support is a role that is often misunderstood.
Like you already know it doesn’t mean just “Healer”.
It means a role in which you Support your allies somehow.

In Thief’s case the Support build is meant to be things like Venom sharing.
Going so full on Support is meant to be a rare, unusual role for them, but they are still meant to be very effective at it if they choose to go for it.

A Support Necro will probably never Heal others as much as a Guardian does.
Instead they are meant to be an effective mix of of Control and Support who make up for the lower Healing by making their opponents Crippled, Weakened and Chilled.

They are meant to be so good that you’d sometimes pick one over a Support Guardian.
They’ll just be stronger/weaker in different specific things.

As far as Bunkering goes whereas a Guardian bunkers with Blocks and Heals a Necro is meant to do it by Life Steals and Death Shroud.

A “Bunker” Thief would use massive amounts of Blind, Dodges and their rather strong healing skills.
Well, I guess Bunker is a rather specific role so maybe that won’t happen!

there really should be a sitting on the couch episode with a 3v3 to debate this ridiculous notion that necros (one build) are OP.

Hell I’ll even 1v3 pobcast the clowns claiming this, hows that for necro 1vX?