Guild Wars 2

OF course you can, get to 5000 AP…wait? You used that one up? Well then get to 10k AP or 15K AP. Anet is giving them to you, even with a good amount of gold to boot. Stop being spoiled and either play the game or convert gold into 200 gems for hair change.

I would very much enjoy seeing my Warrior bash people’s heads in with a book.

“LEARN IT!”
“PAIN, VOLUME ONE THROUGH TEN!”
“Oh look, there’s an obituary here! YOURS!”
“…The End!”

You can actually hear the ‘whoosh’ as money leaves my wallet.

A couple of these are absolutely great!

Harbinger.8637:

Community: “We want more meaningful content.”

Anet: " Oh, ok have some hairstyles!"

Jokes aside some of them look pretty neat.

more like..

Community: “We want more hairstyles”

Anet: “Oh, ok have some hairstyles!”

Other parts of the community: “kitten that, we want better rewards!”

Anet: “Ok, we’ll revamp the rewards for champs”

Community: “this is soo lame now everyone just farms champs, we want challenging boss fights!”

Anet: “Ok, we redid one of them, polished a few others and more are coming”

Community: “ugh never mind _that_why does anet only care about pve stuff, we want new wvw content!”

Anet: “Ok, We’ve redesigned the borderland map and added a new mechanic”

Community: “bah! no one cares about wvw anyway, when are you gonna put more stuff in the gem store that actually worth paying for, like new hairstyle, we totally want new hairstyles!!”

There is no way for Anet to win with the community, ever.

When I read the following statement from the game’s lead designer,

“The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, designers of traditional MMOs create content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.

When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.

But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?"

I thought, “now there’s an MMO I can get behind. The developers want to make a game that’s fun, not one that concerns itself with stringing players along with things like gear-treadmills or time-gated rewards.” A year latter, now that I’ve seen what the Living Story is all about, I’ve had a change of heart. The Living Story is essentially doing exactly what subscription-based MMOs do…keeping players logging often for the sake of “chasing something in the game”.

The Living Story introduces temporarily-available content. Tied to this content is temporarily-available in-game rewards and – not coincidentally – temporarily-available items in the cash shop. The developers are resorting to the exact kinds of tactics they intended to avoid…“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.” Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

The article goes on to say,

“If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content meant to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do—I played it multiple times because it was fun!”

This is the part that gets me the most. I have no doubt the developers were passionate about making a fun game that got away from the genre-norms when they made this game. But with the Living Story, it’s clear they completely abandoned most of their core principles. I don’t think there’s anyone who would argue that the Living Story hasn’t been mostly filler designed to “draw out the experience.” I don’t think there’s anyone who would argue menial tasks such as breaking pinatas, collecting kites, and riding in hot-air balloons are “fun”. But that’s what we’re getting with each new installment of the Living Story.

A subscription fee, at this point, might have been the lesser of two evils. If I’m going to get a bunch of “filler content meant to draw out the experience” I’d rather get it i one large chunk (as many other MMOs offer in content updates) than in bite-sized portions fed to us one at a time over the course of months. At least with a large content update the developers can work to ensure the content is polished and story (where applicable) is coherent and presented to the players in a way that makes sense, and the players can usually consume the content at their own pace. There’s no pressure to “do it now lest you miss it forever”, and there’s no “guess we’ll have to wait a few months to see where this goes.”

The point of this wasn’t to say that I prefer subscription fees to buy-to-play models, I don’t. The point was to say that I hope it’s not too late for the developers to get back to the ideals they had in mind when they set out to make this game (those expressed in the linked article). If they’re “all in” with type of content we’ve been getting in the Living Story, then so be it. But I don’t feel it’s too late to get back to what I feel made this game special in the first place. And so long as I feel that way, I think its worthwhile to voice my opinion here, in a constructively critical manner, in hopes that we can get away from the design philosophy of “spending all this time racing to add as much filler content as possible to keep players chasing the carrot” and back to the business of “creating fun”.

As always, I invite you to share your thoughts on the subject; but I ask that we keep our discussions civil and our criticisms constructive.

MMO players are the most spoiled out of all gamers.

But in all the MMOs I have played I have never seen a more spoiled fanbase than GW2.

I don’t know if we’re spoiled necessarily. I just think that there are a lot of really unhappy human beings that gravitate towards MMO’s. I definitely have seen in the past in my own life that when I was unhappy or depressed about something, MMO’s became less about entertainment and more about escaping reality. This didn’t solve the problem however, so it got worse and worse.

GW2 is actually the first MMO that I’ve ever played that couldn’t be classified as an addiction or a coping mechanism, and unfortunately (for me), that’s probably due more to the way its designed than my maturity as a human being. Of course, on a personal level I’m a dad now, so my wife would kill me if I allowed one of the hardcore MMO’s to get under my skin again.

That all being said, I see a lot of the unhappy, argumentative, dissatisfied whining going on in GW2 that I was guilty of during my years of MMO addiction. It takes one to know one, as the saying goes.

Kids? Kids aren’t even old enough to know what SAB is referring to. It’s a minigame for older players, the ones who witnessed the first games that were ever made, the legendary ones like Zelda and Mario. Kids play Call of Duty, not SAB.

Vayne.8563:

The living story content, usually anyway, takes a day or two. You have two weeks to do it. If you’re really stressed about it, follow the Dulfy guide and it’s usually pretty fast.

But more, they’ve been tailoring the living story lately to have various goals. For example…I didn’t bother as much with the Queen’s Gauntlet and stayed with the Jubilee achievment. At the end I got the meta for the Queens’ Gauntlet too, without even facing Liadri.

They’re making it so that most people CAN get the achievements.

Most recently they have dailies that count to the meta.

It’s easier now to get the meta than it’s ever been.

They do have dailies that count to the meta now, but they don’t have enough achievements without those dailies to get the meta reward item. It is only easier to get the achievements if you sign in a few times during the week. For people that only get to play one day a week it means that it’s not only difficult to get, it’s impossible.

So… oftentimes people stop playing. Whether they stomp away in disgust or just wander away because of the “why bother” feeling doesn’t really matter. They’re still gone. It used to be that I could sign in once a week and play for six hours and still have a good sense of accomplishment. That isn’t possible anymore. The time gates on the living story achievements, the crafting, the gathering, gear attainment — those have all definitely driven my desire to play way down.

Is this a serious thread? Gw2 is BY FAR the most casual MMO on the market. How much more casual do you want it? o.O

I just got my War to 80 . I dont really set goals per se though cause then you gotta grind it out. For me its just more play the game and if a goal comes along then thats what im doin

Galen Grey.4709:

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

If you play Gw2 for the rewards rather then for the content then there is a good chance it will feel grindy and unfun.

Exactly. I played MMOs in the past for years that focused on rewards. How to get the best tier, then how to get the next best tier, then how to get the next next best tier, etc. etc. And it isn’t because I felt I wanted that gear, it was because I literally needed that gear in order to experience the new content.

There was no option: if you didn’t have X gear, lol see ya noob, what is that tier7 LOL what a loser! Oh uh, sorry for wasting everyone’s time, I’ve only been playing this game 7 years, don’t mind me I’ll just be in a fetal position here in this corner.

I’m so over that structure.

That’s why I don’t care about Ascended gear, like at all. The accessories/trinkets are super easy to acquire if you log on at least once a day for 20-30min and are part of a guild that can at minimum accomplish guild bounties. Do I need the weapon? For what? To say I have one? I’ve already finished all of the content without it, so what’s the point? The whole gear treadmill argument implies content requirements. No content in this game requires Ascended gear. None of it. (Upper FoTM isn’t different content, I think of it as a Challenge mode for content I’ve already completed umpteen times already)

Jabronee.9465:

GW 2 was advertised as a fun, casual MMO.

Fun = Grinding for Legendaries or BiS weapons/items and soon BiS gears.
Casuals = Being told over and over again by the community you dont need any of the stats above. Cause they are grinding so casuals could owned them.

lolz just lolz

I have fun and I don’t do Legendary or BiS grinding. I find leveling up alts very fun, I find sPvP very fun, I find WvW very fun, I find most of the Activities very fun (I spit on Crab Toss), I find JPs very fun, I find dungeon paths and FoTM very fun.

Am I doing it wrong? How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints, because I feel I’m stuck having fun doing everything outside of grinding and according to the forums that simply cannot be. PLZ HELP MEH!

I go for option 3:
never, ever introduce another tier.

• I don’t think most casual players expect everything to be easy.
• I don’t think most casual players expect everything handed to them.
• I don’t think most casual players stand around in Lions Arch all day chatting.
• I don’t think all casual players only do PvE and run around doing champ zergs all day.
• I do think most casual players understand that not every aspect of the game will cater to them.
• I do think most casual players are interested in participating in challenging content.
• I do think most casual players understand obtaining certain items will take longer than other players.
• I do think casual players strive to get these items when they do play.
• I do think many casual players are just as good at the game as more dedicated players.
• I do think many casual players that read this forum get a bit tired of non-casual players trying to define how they play and what they want. Then again here I am trying to define what casual players think and want as well but I’m a casual player.

I’ve been away again for work and during my trip, all I could do is read the forums to follow up with updates, player response and the likes. And it’s all hate for this game here. What gives?! What did ANet do exactly to us that we’d bash them endlessly like they’ve committed atrocious, heinous crimes that deserve death on the stake? Thank God the “Holy Grind Wars” thread was locked. It was beyond toxic there..

I always look forward to coming home to play the game, just relaxing and enjoying myself. Pertaining to the topic itself, the game caters a lot to a casual like me. When I have spare time for leisure, I turn the game up and pick up where I left off. My AP stands at 2.1k and that should speak a lot for the level of “casual” here. And with so much that ANet is introducing, I don’t feel one bit intimidated, contrary to the uproar by the masses regarding ascended gear (the grind?), falling behind in AP, introduction of hard content which requires coordination and thus the end of casual content for everyone? Uhh, what? Seems like people complain about anything these days.

Here’s how I see it, this game is remarkable in just about every aspect I can think of. I miss out on an enormous amount of dailies (and with that AP’s) due to the nature of my work. Do I feel like I’m falling behind? No, and why should I? There’s ascended gear and legendaries that apparently take forever to acquire and you can only procure them by means of crafting. Do I feel like I’m hitting a wall here? Jeez, no. I do just fine with a mix of rares and exotics. I do get killed quite a bit (probably due to a lack of skill as of yet >.<) in WvW and PvP but that’s a part of the game and I enjoy the interaction there and sportsmanship (where it is exhibited). Can’t kill Teq? Makes it a reason to go out there, talk to players, try to organize something and try taking that Taco down as a community. I’ve yet to take him down, but the interaction with people and esprit de corp is reward enough as it stands. Plus the fights are entertaining despite the lack of successes thus far.

I love this game and I will repeat myself as many times to ascertain to people that not everyone are whiners/haters/trolls in the forums. I have certain gripes anout the game myself but it doesn’t warrant the kinds of hate that many in the forums seem to so brazenly express at every given possible whim. And I can clearly identify few of which have clearly aligned themselves that way.

Tl:dr – Game’s great, I’m a casual and don’t see how the game’s straying from that. There’s content for everyone to enjoy and it’s up to each player to see that themselves. And stop hating on the game already. That is why we cannot have nice things.

Nuka Cola.8520:

GW2 is evolving into a facebook game you play for 20 minutes a day and log out. Also, i don’t remember any time gated content in gw1 at all, not even one (unless zquests is what you consider time gated content which isn’t the case). GW2 is all about time gated content, gem store, gem store, gem store, gem store, archaic targeting system, archaic save/load builds system, extreme time sink (current teq), money sink. Its so funny that its worth participating in this mess to see where its actually going.

We must be playing different games, because what you’re describing is not the GW2 I have on my computer.

Laurels, lol. Those are only good for purchasing dyes. Crafting bags are obsolete.

The first rule of Ettin club is: You do not talk about Ettin club.

To Tequatl I say, “So long and thanks for all the fish!”

We already had months of free transfers at launch. It was horrible.

Drakkon.4782:

urzen.7096:

This. Timers are not fun. Only death should be the end. We should be able to keep fighting Tequila until we are all dead, give up, or rally for the win.

The only timer should be a 15/10/5/whatever minute timer on no one attacking Teq. If he isn’t attacked for 15/10/5/whatever minutes, then he should despawn. Otherwise, he should be up until he’s killed.

With all due respect, that’s absurd. Everyone can simply respawn and keep the event active by hitting Tequatl once every few minutes.

I’m more concerned about the discordance between the waves’ animation and their actual hitbox. They hit you before the animation reaches you. That said, I like this fight.

And to be honest, giving it a longer timer would not do. Instead of taking him down to 90%, disorganized groups would take him to 80%. Rewarding mediocrity breeds decadency. We have enough casual content already.

Let me make this as simple as possible, you think it’s a waste of time, don’t go.

Most of the people posting here saying no are just pessimistic. You SHOULD DEFINITELY give it a try whenever possible. Killing Teq multiple times has been great. Every time it is wonderful, and in fact even failing it is pretty fun. It has really brought some people together in different communities, and people should be capitalizing on this. Join the rest of your server mates/guest to another server and get involved, have some fun. It is really a good experience. =)

I think most players stop trying once they notice they are in overflow. In theory, everyone getting in the overflow went there for the dragon, they should be aware of the mechanics and be equipped with the right gear, potions and attitude. Even if they lack TS this isnt rocket science if everyone tries to coordinate. My impression from overflow fights is that people give up before the dragon arrives, and try a lackluster zerg attack while attempting to join their party on the home server. Of course that fails, and the attitude fail cascades all future overflows too.