Guild Wars 2

..but…but… 4 of those professions weren’t rangers !!!1!!one!!1

This picture reminds us once again that you shouldn’t judge people based on their class. Several minutes earlier this guardian told us in Lion’s Arch that he didn’t want to team up with 2 light armors and a ranger for Fractals level 20.

We managed to convince him to give it a try anyway, but he predicted that we’d find out in no time that it doesn’t work.

Our first Fractal is the swamp, we all do fine. Guess who is the first player to go down at Mossman? In fact, throughout the whole run our squishy players did really well. Our ranger hardly went down, our other necro a few times, and I hardly went down at all. The guardian was eating the dirt quite a lot throughout the whole run. It really all boils down to player skill. And no doubt some classes are better than others. There is an imbalance, make no mistake. And don’t get me wrong, this particular player wasn’t a bad guy. He finished the run with us, and we didn’t hear anything out of him after the first Fractal. So I’m not posting this to come down on the guy. But this attitude has got to stop. Just play together and have fun.

In a two Guardian three Warrior group, you can replace one of the Warriors with an alternate DPS class (DPS Guardian, LH Elementalist, Backstab Thief, Dagger Necro, Spotter Ranger, Grenadier Engineer) or a Mesmer for utility. Hell, you could replace two Warriors with two different DPS characters. Warriors are probably “the best” and some are considered to be worse than others, but if you really want to push a class to its limits while still being close to optimal, options exist for all the classes. The thing is, however, that after getting to high level FOTM (46+) and running lots of dungeons every day, you begin to realize that it’s just better to take some classes than others.

Personally I hope that other classes get things that Guardians have – group stability, projectile reflects, AoE pulls, area CC that isn’t Fear (since Fear pushes mobs away and thus works against trying to melee DPS cleave mobs down), once they start adding new skills, since right now, it’ true, high level FOTM basically mandates multiple Guardians to have a smooth run. And yes, the truth is Warriors are probably the only class you want in FOTM if you want smooth, quick runs. But it is possible for other classes to work within the system and still be helpful. But regardless of all of these things, playing a condition damage ranged character is NOT one of the ways to help contribute optimally. Especially one that tries to use Fear to control mobs when the optimal way to deal with groups is to pull them together in a ball, not to spread them out.

I think you should try to get yourself to FOTM 40+ and try to observe the things that contribute to a smooth run. You should also compare your own performace to the performance and kill times of others on youtube, and see what you could improve. Because right now, I can tell you that you have some well-intentioned but ill-informed opinions on how to run dungeons effectively. It’s not your fault. ANet put all of these interesting diverse ability sets on stuf like Necro Staff or Ele Staff, but in fact most of their abilities are better served in WvW or PvP. The issue is that GW2 implements a lot of archetypical game concepts from other RPGs, but implements them in such a way into such a system that they don’t work as well as they would in other games. A Ranged CCer who uses Damage over time effects in large AoEs is a staple of many games (I always loved to play this type of character), and it’s still very good in GW2 WvW. It’s just sorta bad for PvE Dungeons and Fractals as the game is set up.

Basically, look at Obal’s videos and Strife’s videos on youtube, and you will see what it means to do dungeons efficiently and effectively. When I do a dungeon, I try to emulate those tactics with my guild because I know that these tactics will not only make the dungeon run go faster, but will make it smoother and more enjoyable as well. And the truth is, non-FOTM dungeons can be done with something like Necro, Engie, Ranger, Thief, and Ele, and as long as you properly utilize projectile blocks, LoS, and Melee Stacking and Melee DPS, you should be able to get good fast dungeon runs.

My problem is although the Longbow change is a great step in the right direction, and the longbow seems to be in a good state right now, I can’t possibly figure out the point of Ranger as a whole.

We sit at range and DPS with a longbow 3k autoattack…. What’s the point? Engineer can do the same, but with way more support options.

What the ranger needs is more options to support the team in ways a Guardian cannot – A niche that only the Ranger can have.

My proposed niche for Rangers is having them become super-buffers with their spirits, at the risk of being destroyed easily in combat. Specifically, I think Stone Spirit should provide 7s of Protection rather than 3s. This might seem overpowered, but keep in mind Guardians can already establish PERMANENT Protection..

Another niche the Ranger needs is the old effects of Search and Rescue. This is something that made the Ranger an essential team player for High Level fractals, but awhile back they removed the functionality to resurrect Defeated players.

If Ranger is not a master of damage or control, they should at least be able to provide support. Perhaps a little “power creep” is necessary just to bring the Ranger up to other classes.

jcbroe.4329:

With the new change in full Knights Armor with some berserker mixed in (I’m sitting on 50 crit chance and 42 crit damage), with full Marksmanship to pick up Remorseless, doing the simple rotation of stealthing into Rapid Fire always nets me between 7.5-9k Rapid Fire channels, and that’s without the Sigil of Fire proccing.

I mean, I’m sitting on 3k armor, at 1500 range, and I’m able to channel almost 10k damage in 4.5 seconds, every 12s. AND Precise Strike isn’t a guaranteed crit (bug), which would probably put the damage at a consistent bottom range of 8k.

There really aren’t that many other classes that can do that damage at range AND build for the evasion and escape tools that rangers have access to.

At 1500 range, maybe. At 900-1200 range though?

Dragon’s Tooth
Phoenix
Feast
Comet
Path of Scars

I’m sure I could name a half dozen more with little real effort. And almost all of those are AE. 8k over 4.5 seconds is not a lot of damage. Thief can do it with unload 3 times in a row :/

People are going to be so disappointed by the Abaddon Fractal. It’s inevitable with the insanely unrealistic expectations people have.

Makes me feel sorry for the team that will have to develop it…

VOTE FOR SUWASH!

I like boobs but you don’t see me making a thread about it

It’s not that tough. More than anything it’s just a test of dps and how long you’re willing to sit down and faceroll mobs for a measly 50 silver.

One question: which profession is capable of doing the most damage, fully buffed, with a lightning hammer?

Chopps.5047:

Don’t feed the trolls. Everyone with half a brain is loving this change.

You are one hundred percent correct. People with half a brain like this change.

Mike.7236:

I personally don’t like the idea of switching between different modes, which is what you do with the weapon switch. I never got to terms with Druids in WoW for that reason, mode switching isn’t for everyone!

Except, in GW2, it really is for everyone. Every class plays like a Druid, since every class requires you to constantly change “form” if you’re going to get the most out of them.

I don’t like that style of play, and so I don’t change weapons much, no matter what Arenanet thinks about it. Which unfortunately makes the game play even more lacking in complexity than it already is.

It’s actually pretty sad that Arenanet didn’t just pick the standard MMO model with tons of abilities on quick bars that you manage yourself. There are so many things that are awesome about this game, but the thing you do 99 % of the time (killing stuff) is far less interesting than it could have been.

This game’s entire combat mechanic was built around avoiding the mess of hotbars to begin with. I personally hated having a billion skills that would go unused, or only had 1 purpose to them. Now what I could see happening in the future is being able to change out what attacks you can bring with a weapon set (like swapping utilities), but hhhheeeellllll nnnnooooo to additional hotbars.

As for killing stuff being uninteresting: you make the game however interesting or boring you want. If you don’t want to switch weapons and just sit there with your longbow skills on cooldown don’t get mad at the game then. That’s just how you want to roll.

You have to look at it in terms of probability.

The probability that ANY pug of ANY class is bad, pretty high. At least 50% of pugs are bads.
The probability that a pug ranger is going to add more to a group (like spirits), pretty low.
The probability that a guy who just got to level 80 today knows what he’s doing, very low.
The probability that a ranger with a longbow and/or a bear knows what he’s doing, the limit approaches zero.

It’s possible that a ranger who joins a group happens to run spirits and knows how to use healing spring, has a longbow but only uses it when he has to, and runs a bear only for when his dps pet is dead…. but its hilariously unlikely. Safe bet is to kick the ranger, take a warrior or a guardian because even pugs on their first day at 80 can play them and be effective and can make massive contributions to group success. In MMO’s, some players are jerks and will judge you before you get a chance to prove yourself. Keep your chin up.

Time to leave the bear&longbow at home.

The problem, most rangers face is -justified- prejudice.
There are just so many bear+longbow-I-will-keep-firing-into-this-feedback-bubble-till-I-die-rangers out there, it’s mindblowing.
Like the worst of the worst players sat together, discussed for a bit and then decided, everyone of them shall play a ranger.

I wouldn’t kick a ranger from my party.
If he had a bear and a longbow, I’d ask him to tell his skill build and secondary weapon set tho.

The scoring system is like the point system in who’s line is it anyways, the points don’t mean anything, like when I say I love you when I’m drunk.

bwuki.2175:

people often complain about how they spend so much time and money trying to save for one, I bought around 70g worth of rares and got one. This is the third time its happened. I never spend more than 100g at a time and it seems to work fine for me

RNG is RNG. The fact that you can consistently do it with ~70g and others can’t IS the problem.

I’d never post in pvp section if i didn t read that PvE is ever taken in account for balancing

We have a completely broken meta in PvE and even when dev talked about underpowered PvE profession they eaten the most serious nerfs in the name of PvP.

So i won t waste more of your time but if pve is treated as expendable in balancing, at least don t use PvE as an excuse forr pvp balance…

Its not fair.
If some skill is OP in PvE the mob or dungeon is buffed or the reward is lowered but NEVER the skill is touched.

Hahaha you could have the really powerful templates drop randomly from black lion chests

Just a stupid joke. As someone who has played mainly PvE and WvW and has only dabbled in PvP, this would be very much welcome. Thanks for the response

ilr.9675:

JonathanSharp.7094:

It’s a work flow issue, hope this makes sense. It would also mean that players would have to learn 3 different versions of every skill, which is not good for new players.

Not buying it. And neither are most other PVE’ers. Have yet to see one complete set of balance changes clearly designed to help PvE’ers and maybe showed the slightest disregard for up-lel PvP. It’s always going in the other direction. And somehow still not satisfying the PvP’ers as this thread demonstrates. Even some of the PvE dungeons lately seem more like a PvP arena than something clearly intended to be fair to every class in PvE. If that isn’t trying to condition PvE’ers to accept PvP as the “Alpha and Omega” here, then I don’t know what is… (maybe ya ain’t noticed, but they judge alpha by what gives the best l00t)

Agree with this ^

As primarily a PvE player, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen some “balance” update which makes a skill/trait virtually useless in PvE, just so it’s balanced for PvP. I’m sorry but PvP, WvW, and PvE have, from the start, been completely different “games”, to balance them all with the reasons you’ve stated just isn’t justified IMO. You will NEVER be able to have all three at just the right balance. Balance one and the other two become unbalanced!

Please don’t forget that not all of us enjoy the PvP aspects of the game. Players are not completely useless that they won’t notice that traits/skills work a little different in PvP, I realised it the very first time I stepped into PvP.

Splitting the skills would be the easiest solution for the PLAYERS. The reason you have given above seems more like you’re suggesting that it’s the players’ fault, because we are dumb and can’t figure these things out on our own, and I find that quite insulting.

JonathanSharp.7094:

As I’ve said, if we split EVERYTHING and maintained 3 versions of every skill in the game (PvE/WvW/PvP), we’d be adding a LOT of work for the balance team. As it is, we try to keep most things consistent, and only split where we feel it is needed.

Isn’t it harder trying to make compromises between the three? Rather than tweaking numbers a little between each?

I mean, they are already incredibly split due to the overwhelming effect critdmg and foodbuffs have. It would be nice if we could get some consistency between modes through number tweaking.
eg. Killshot 1shotting people in WvW while being near useless in PvP. Backstab critting for upwards of 14k in WvW while D/P thieves are considered only a tier above warriors in PvP.

Now, if only all dungeon mobs/trash was as easy to take down and gave such loot there wouldn’t be any skipping going on …

I run CoE quite a bit. A couple of times in the last few days I’ve had groups that, without saying anything beforehand, just blow by the little risen dudes on the stairs after avoiding the champion by standing in the alcove.

It takes two or three AoE’s to kill all of them. I’ve never seen a party wipe on them. And like the destroyer crablings in P3, the little guys spew loot at you. You can get a stack of like ten heavy moldy bags for two seconds of work.

Plus, when skipping the silver enemies after them, you wind up fighting them stacked in a corner, which the fury/mighted axe-spinning risen just love.

Spend two seconds. Get loot. That’s why you’re there.

Jae.5138:

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

And based on the countless other threads I’ve seen over the last year most people prefer not to have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars for one skin. This isn’t about opinions, it is about thinly veiled gambling systems being marketed to (in some cases) impressionable children.

Yeah; I said it.

Not only is this RNG crap a rip off, it is marketing a gambling system to children. It may as well be a virtual slot machine.

Aetherblade weapon skins.

/sighs

Seriously what happened? You were on the right path with the Aetherblade armor, and I actually thought, foolishly it seems, that after all the complaints about these chests and low drop rates that you had learned and wanted to redeem yourselves. Putting skins up for direct buy in the gem store is the best way to go, it lets those of us who want them have them, and it gets you a fair price per skin. But now you pull this crap? Seriously?

It was one thing when we had to win a RNG game to get a skin, but now you want us to win TEN RNG games for ONE skin?

Because I don’t want to start ranting, and I would really like to not resort to expletives, I’ll just leave it at this; I am very disappointed. What happened to you Arena Net?

The problem is that anet stupidly thought they could balance pve and pvp as the same skill, with no divider between.

OP, this is funny as hell! :p I dont and have never done CoF1 the “elite” way. Our so called speedruns largely consist of burning down what foes we need to as fast as we can, no pressure, and skipping mobs we can skip. No gear or class exclusivity and no mandatory time limit crap. We (my guild and I) really frown on that kind of… exclusivity.

That said, if ever anything like ur suggestion gets done, id feel tempted to be an elitist because of the cat icon oohh id so like to have a cat icon on my portrait.

A while back me and my fiancée decided to do some COF runs to make a little side gold. So I posted on the looking for group web site, but was very clear that we were inexperienced and not doing a speed run. And it just so happens we got a zerker. He went down on the first boss. Then when I was half way done reviving him he abandons the party, and I get a rather nasty “GTFO NOOB” message in my mail box.

I am all for the kitten filter. The zerkers have taken over COF P1 to the point that they don’t even pay attention to the lfg site; they just assume that if you’re running you must be doing a zerker speed run.

Nuka Cola.8520:

is this normal that i haven’t done a single speedrun of cof1 since the farming began? its like the whole population of gw2 doing it lol

Have never done so. Don’t plan to. Quite capable, but why? Not why I play GW2.

I don’t believe the whole population of GW2 is. I believe it’s a very small minority that stand out, not because of player skill, or ability to spec/gear, but because some of the behavior exhibited is the very antithesis of the community-oriented play this game and its players promote and prefer.

If their ability to continue to farm is removed, they will find the next, easiest path of least resistance.

I have no problem with their preferred playstyle. Only with the immature behavior that often, but not always, accompanies it.

Don’t see the need to “mark” any particular group of players.

Keep your list of friends nearby and let the others keep to their own.

-Simplistically dismissive (not of you, Nuka Cola, but of the whole issue)

In game, when exploring the open world, people will usually help (silenty, but help) someone doing a difficult Dynamic Event. When doing World Bosses or Temples, people will often engage in light conversation (“Hello good sir, this priestess lad is rather bothersorme, is she not?” “Indeed!” “Rather” and so on). When doing Caudecus Manor explorable mode, people feel united by the unique experience of actually finding a group for that dungeon, and so not only they are nice to each other, but also they become Best Friends Forever.

When doing CoF P1, you will likely get kicked in the last fight because you made the team lose 0.1 seconds in the middle of the dungeon (n00b).

Right now, all elitists are gathered in the same place – CoF P1, and a few still at Fractals. With the incoming nerf to CoF and increase in gold drops for playing daily the other dungeons, the elitists – the very bottom of the cesspool, as far as elitism is concerned – will likely spread to the other dungeons.

This is an issue. We don’t want to play with them, and they don’t want to play with us, lowly mortals. Due to the lack of a LFG feature, and considering that ArenaNet’s own LFG will likely need a few revisions before it actually works, we will need some other way to deal with the issue.

I would like to propose, then, the definitive solution: the kitten filter.

All accounts with a Berzeker warrior who has set foot in CoF will be marked as kittens. The same for Berzeker guardians in full CoF armors. And mesmers in CoF armor too, since no sane mesmer would ever be caught in something that ugly. The kitten players will have a small cat icon at the bottom left of their portraits in game.

All players would, then, have a slider in options to completely ignore the kitten players. This would prevent talking, joining groups, meeting through the incoming LFG tool, and watching particle effects (no no burning kittens in dragon wings).

This way, kittens would still be able to play together and quickly identify each other, and we mortals would have an easy way to get rid of them. Comments, increments, applause?