Guild Wars 2

Velimere.7685:

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/5064/gw035zg.jpg

Am I doing it right?

GS is the offensive long range weapon (when izerker is working)

Staff is mid range and hard to catch (phase retreat)

They both have their uses. Swap them out at the appropriate times.

I’m glad they are doing it. Each side has different advantages. Randomizing it helps even things out.

I also don’t want people who don’t want to engage in WvW just hanging around taking up spots from those that actually want to WvW. This way they can pop in, get them, pop out and free up that spot.

Usagi.4835:

Replace traps with ascended gear please!

This times 1,000.

TallDan.6350:

TonyDiMeglio.5461:

Terrorsquad.2349:

TonyDiMeglio.5461:

Peetee.9406:

Please quit taking away all the cool features of my class (ele). I already feel like a kitten guardian with less armor, less hp and less damage.

The fact that you just said this just makes it clear A net cant balance worth kitten. your mist form in downed state is kittening kitten And should not let you enter keeps. Yeah I kittening said it.

Then Mesmers shouldn’t be able to confuse + change of places + clones + dmg too in downed state.
Yeah, I said this

oh please all you have to do for mesmer downed state is wait

Mesmer downed state is bugged anyway, half the time it moves you such a short distance that the original spike still gets you.

I can’t imagine that mistform through gates was an intended mechanic though, probably a bug.

I would be happy if mesmer’s downed ability at least moved them away from the target within 180 degrees… as it is now you press it and half the time you tele into the middle of the group you’re trying to escape. Just brilliant.

Terrorsquad.2349:

BlackBeard.2873:

I would gladly exchange a the ability swap weapons in combat for a nerf on mist-form. As it is, your most effective role as an ele is to run to the back of the keep, wait about 20s to leave combat, then equip a staff. If I could switch to staff quicker, you wouldn’t see these kamikaze eles that drop down, do about 10 damage, and retreat inside. I know some people do it, but it is simply not effective to do anyway.

Are you really complaining about 1-2 bags/day, anyway? If you remove the portal ability of mistform, then no ele downed ability has any use at all, anywhere.

^True

Very untrue.

Part of ele’s class mechanics are to have 4 attunements instead of having a weapon swap. You get more skills available to you in exchange for only having 1 available weapon set. That’s the tradeoff. Asking for 40 available skills when other classes get 10 is just silly.

It’s not about the bags. It’s that you can charge out (even if you’re a horrid player) and not care what so ever about being downed. You can cause a lot of damage to other players and siege doing that. Get multiple ele’s together doing that and it’s a major pain. That’s just wrong.

Players would still do it even if they had a weapon swap. Don’t kid yourself.

It would also still be the strongest downed state in the game hands down. Instantly available on down (can’t cc them) + invuln + wipes conditions when finished + able to move back to your group to a place for an easy revival… and people seriously think they should have the ability to kitten back into keeps/towers on top of that… or it’s worthless?

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

O.o What noobs are letting you hit them with pistol whip?

slingblade.1437:

mjharrison.3209:

All the currencies should be interconvertible so people can do the stuff they enjoy.

30 skill points = 50K karma = 250 badges = 2 laurels

30 laurels per item

My first reaction to this at least, is that it’s brilliant.

Anet, please take note! Don’t punish us for playing the way we want to play. Just be happy we’re playing, and reward accordingly.

I like the general idea of it, however, 250 badges for 2 laurels would mean 3750 badges per item. 50k karma for 2 laurels would be 750,000 karma per item. That’s a bit high…

This is my gear philosophy… you want enough vit and tough to be able to survive a reasonable burst, after that just go into damage.

Mesmer is blessed with quite a few escapes and active defences to counter bursts, so you won’t need to go nearly as deep as you would with other classes. You still will want some defensive stats to help mitigate the non-burst damage though.

Your traits will make a sizeable different in your stats so keep that in mind as well.

Personally I’m a big fan of cavalier ascended trinkets… gives you nice damage and toughness at the same time. If you’re not there yet with your gear, some knight’s with exquisite rubys will work well in the meantime. I would also have at least your chest be knights as it’s more worthwhile statwise on that particular piece… but I wouldn’t go much more than that.

For exotics (if you’re broke) SE and CoF are very easy and fast dung runs for knights and zerker gear (respectively). A nice plus is that mesmer is a great class people want to have in both of these (for reflects in SE, portal for CoF, time warp for everywhere).

Save the $ you make from these to help you buy your exotic jewelry and runes.

Benjamin.8237:

Well, some people like to have variety. What does need to be buffed, as you said is our Control. That is it, everything else, no matter how hard they hit us we still perform the best in. I agree with what you say, making the Mesmer more like the Gw1 equivalent, and I think they are moving towards that area with mantra buffs etc, however other classes need fixing more.

Chaos Maestro > Guardian Boons.
Immortal Mesmer > Guardian Retaliation
Shatter Cat > Thief Burst
Phantasm Builds > Warrior DPS (2 Duelists anyone?)

See how many “>” there was, that’s because we are possibly overpowered, but most certainly one of the most fixed classes, ok they nerfed confusion, we can still do the other stuff. So we need a list of what needs to be done:

-> Fix other classes
-> Give us CC

The different classes bring different things alongside those boons, retal/survival, burst, & dps. A good example is a healway guardian (retal/bunker) will bring large heals (like 3k in WvW) to their allies with selfless daring. Mesmer is generally lacking in that regard.

I also don’t agree that mes is the better in all of those cases. It would be highly situational.

I agree with the OP about the working around bugs thing… this is a bane far too many classes have to deal with this far out from launch. Hopefully this next month’s batch of fixes (which they say will be their focus) will clear some of this junk up.

Some other classes have to give up things for swiftness as well…

For mesmer you must trait into focus, and get swiftness on heal runes. Guards have to use a staff + trait for 2h mastery and they nearly get perma with pack runes. It requires an investment to get it. I LIKE that. It’s a boon… I don’t see why people should have it permanently so easily like eng & ele.

Thief and Ranger I understand having a passive for 25% though.

Rerroll.9083:

PowerBottom.5796:

Found sth. cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJZSX5OPuHM

They quit a long time ago

gj arenanet

A thief in a tPvP team. Very very old indeed.

nagymbear.5280:

I’m not saying they need a nerf, their mechanic would need a change. Stealth shouldn’t be so easy to use. It needs a cooldown that is longer than the stealth. It would still be an escape tool, but you couldn’t reset fights with it all the time, until your opponent burns all his cooldowns trying to survive/catch a thief. I’m glad you can own thieves on your mesmer, not sure about what skills are involved on both sides though.

You can own thieves on most classes… it’s just a learn to play issue. Avoid/mitigate their burst, cc them, smash them, and you’ll be fine. It’s the same reason why you don’t see thieves in higher skilled tPvP gameplay, but all the time in hotjoin.

Pavel.8531:

I only see a lot of people that don’t know thief mechanics get trolled by 1 good s/d thief here. However, I do agree chaining cnd is imbalanced in wvw. IMO you should get revealed debuff 1.5s at the end of a stealth, even if you have not attacked anything(normal 3s, if you attack).

That’s the main issue in bold.

Thief and mesmer punish players that don’t understand those classes the most out of any other class.

New players get upset since they have no clue of what’s going on or how to counter it. Then they go on the forums and cry nerf nerf nerf instead of learning.

The other day there was a guardian on the thief forums asking for a nerf. A fricking GUARDIAN asking for a thief nerf. Guards have a VERY easy time killing thieves. They have SO many great tools against them. Dear god I still see players spamming ranged attacks at a thief doing dagger storm on a daily basis… but why should players learn when they can go cry for nerfs instead of learning to play?

Notice how no one was killed. Notice how little CC was used. Not impressive at all.

Nerf thieves? Please. They’ve been nerfed into the ground. It’s a burst class which can’t even burst as hard as other classes. I can beat a thief on all of my characters. How? Because I know thieves. I practiced as one and against them.

Quit acting like stealth = thief is unvuln.

Learn how they generally behave. Thieves are one trick ponies (that trick being dependent on their weapon set). Learn to counter that trick.

Use CC.

Do that and thieves wont be any issue for you.

morrolan.9608:

The Rooster.2615:

So to the people that are actually leaving the game because they can’t adapt to a minor change like this. Maybe WvW wasn’t intended for you to begin with. Which is not me trying to take a shot at you, just saying maybe you were looking for something else.

Its not a minor change though, as was noted the meta of WvW has changed in the 2 weeks due to it, there has been a player saying he’s had to respec to properly deal with it.

He’s an eng… probably using the bug where nades pass through the destructible walls…

dadamowsky.4692:

Aberrant.6749:

dadamowsky.4692:

Aberrant.6749:

Prices on rare items are highly inflated due to rich people cornering the market. It’s only win for those players.

So actually you are against creating the situation when only the high-effort is beeing rewarded?

Wow… you read my posts in this thread this thread… and came out with that? o.O

That’s precisely a problem – your post are contradictory. You are ready to farm the item but only if item itself is directly obtainable after fixed (and as I guess – not too many if you’re so against multiply repetition of the dungeon to win RNG) number or runs, yet you refuse to farm (the same action) the gold to actually buy it on AH. You want to make the items easier, while still stating an effort focus.

It doesn’t make much sense. Frankly speaking it looks like a common “I want it but I don’t have it”.

Again… this sort of RNG based rare item mostly leads to inflation/hoarding/profit to those who didn’t farm it. That’s not a good thing. That causes players to have an ever increasing amount that they need to obtain to buy the item.

Nothing contradictory about it at all.

Looks like a common case of you not being able to keep two non-mutually exclusive thoughts in your head at once.

dadamowsky.4692:

Aberrant.6749:

Prices on rare items are highly inflated due to rich people cornering the market. It’s only win for those players.

So actually you are against creating the situation when only the high-effort is beeing rewarded?

Wow… you read my posts in this thread this thread… and came out with that? o.O

Having it being guaranteed for self use only for a high number of runs wouldn’t kill the market, it would only give players who are serious about farming it a sure thing for their high efforts.

Most people wouldn’t want to do 50 runs. They’ll go buy it instead. If you do get it as a drop you would still be highly rewarded with that sort of pre-req for one just for self use (account bound).

The inflated price of them right now was caused by the people that didn’t farm it. They went and bought them and re-listed them for more. That’s not high effort.

People who put in a lot of effort didn’t get one. Some who only ran it a few times did. That’s RNG luck… again not high-effort.

Seems like it’s you who is against people being rewarded for their efforts.

dadamowsky.4692:

Aberrant.6749:

…and yet the SAB which wasn’t designed this way was massively popular as were the rewards. You put in the effort in the SAB you got the rewards… or you could get lucky and get the skin from the chest. If you were too lazy to go farm the bubbles you could buy them. Win-Win.

That’s pretty fail.

Well… now you can easily obtain it via AH if you farm gold. Win-win you say? Effort is all you need? Great, so you have an option.

Prices on rare items are highly inflated due to rich people cornering the market. It’s only win for those players.

meep.2601:

I don’t understand why everyone is complaining. the community has been asking for traps since release, and anet FINALLY listens to us after months of ignoring this huge gamebreaker. you guys just can never be satisfied apparently.

I have no problem with traps.

I do have a problem with things that target/wreck only a few specific classes and not others though…

As long as they put in traps that hurt all other classes as much as this will hurt those few then w/e np.

skullmount.1758:

Aberrant.6749:

dadamowsky.4692:

Aberrant.6749:

Why not make it so that if we put in the effort we can get the reward we want a-net? -.-

RNG will never be “fair” in terms of skill and effort, but it’s a best way to handle items across the MMO worlds. If the skill/effort was main factor to get rare items, the same set of players who’d simply be able to deal with a very harsh skill-check, and probably gear check since MMOs tend to be heavy gear-oriented – they would gather all, while the rest of playerbase (major in percentage) would have none or very few. Which would mean that new content was released only for a tops and neglect a majority of players. Which would eventually divide a community – not a very smart thing to allow if you run community based game.
And why does it have to be very harsh? Because such items are introduced to be rare, to burst e-pens of players handling it. If rares were not rares anymore, the whole idea behind introducing a new content in MMOs of this kind would be pointless.
BTW, I bet that people would then complain not about RNG but how insanely hard the boss is, if they have to do it for 50/70/100 times without success. Exactly what took place in Diablo 3 when majority of players hit the Inferno difficulty

Yes I know, it still seems to be unfair. Well, shucks. PvE is not an e-sport to be competitive and purely skill-based. RNG gives an even distribution of content, maybe that’s the reason why had it been introduced to MMOs in the first place.

*Just to make the final statement – no, I have not dropped a Jetpack

…and yet the SAB which wasn’t designed this way was massively popular as were the rewards. You put in the effort in the SAB you got the rewards… or you could get lucky and get the skin from the chest. If you were too lazy to go farm the bubbles you could buy them. Win-Win.

Vs… make it time limited and very rare so that people buy them all up and set them at redicilous prices and only a lucky are happy.

That’s pretty fail.

Quote for truth.

panzer.6034:

The problem with the SAB skins though is that they were so easy to get they were completely ubiquitous. Go to any event that month and you saw 10 people running around with the same GS.

Except that isn’t really true either, because I also see either of the two legendary greatswords, AC dungeon greatsword, or fused/destroyer/CoF one. I rarely see any other ones.
And whats it matter if everyone has the same skin? Its already pretty much like that already. I could care less what everyone else is running around in/with, cause if its a skin I like I’ll still use it.

Then set the number of runs you need to do at 50. 50 tokens needed, 1 per run. People who really want that item will need to do a LOT of runs but still be able to get one for sure. I don’t find that to be an unreasonable request, nor would everyone and their mother have one.

Win-Win.

dadamowsky.4692:

Aberrant.6749:

Why not make it so that if we put in the effort we can get the reward we want a-net? -.-

RNG will never be “fair” in terms of skill and effort, but it’s a best way to handle items across the MMO worlds. If the skill/effort was main factor to get rare items, the same set of players who’d simply be able to deal with a very harsh skill-check, and probably gear check since MMOs tend to be heavy gear-oriented – they would gather all, while the rest of playerbase (major in percentage) would have none or very few. Which would mean that new content was released only for a tops and neglect a majority of players. Which would eventually divide a community – not a very smart thing to allow if you run community based game.
And why does it have to be very harsh? Because such items are introduced to be rare, to burst e-pens of players handling it. If rares were not rares anymore, the whole idea behind introducing a new content in MMOs of this kind would be pointless.
BTW, I bet that people would then complain not about RNG but how insanely hard the boss is, if they have to do it for 50/70/100 times without success. Exactly what took place in Diablo 3 when majority of players hit the Inferno difficulty

Yes I know, it still seems to be unfair. Well, shucks. PvE is not an e-sport to be competitive and purely skill-based. RNG gives an even distribution of content, maybe that’s the reason why had it been introduced to MMOs in the first place.

*Just to make the final statement – no, I have not dropped a Jetpack

…and yet the SAB which wasn’t designed this way was massively popular as were the rewards. You put in the effort in the SAB you got the rewards… or you could get lucky and get the skin from the chest. If you were too lazy to go farm the bubbles you could buy them. Win-Win.

Vs… make it time limited and very rare so that people buy them all up and set them at redicilous prices and only a lucky are happy.

That’s pretty fail.

You can craft with the crystals/orbs right now if you’re a jewelcrafter with the same basic mats.

The sentinel inscriptions are only from MF though.

I’m at 72 runs and no mini/jetpack yet.

Why not make it so that if we put in the effort we can get the reward we want a-net? -.-

To make things fair I’m sure they’ll add in traps that kill adrenaline, illusions, pets, judgements, etc. so that it’ll be “balanced.”

/sarcasm

Linnael.1069:

-D/d Ele has longer cooldowns than you. For basically everything. Multiply the intiative cost by two

Lol… just… lol…

As long as they add in traps that kill adrenaline, illusions, pets, judgements, etc. it’ll be “balanced.”

So yea… that’s not gonna happen -.-

Bazeleel.8219:

This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.

Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.

It wasn’t unbalanced at all imo… I can’t remember the last time I was killed by a confusion mes (talkin’ pre-nerf damage).

Eng needed the confusion nerf though imo… my eng gave up virtually nothing to have strong confusion alongside his other on demand conditions.

Mesmers on the other hand gave up a lot of damage/survival because of the required traits to make a confusion mesmer work.

I also agree they need to lay off of thieves though… and it’s for the same reason… too many noob QQ-ers.

I’ve taken on people 1v2 playing as every class in the game in hotjoin… and won vs. random players.

I do this to sort of test out new class builds etc. quite often. It helps me even if I don’t wind up using that class/spec to just have deeper insight.

I would only consider myself an average skill player.

Thus every class in the game is OP because hotjoin is such a good representation of balance.

I’m fine with them adding in new things… this sounds interesting and could be a fun new addition to WvW… but…

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT’S HOLY… please put this on a public test realm before letting it go live so we can avoid a repeat of the arrowcarts.

Players are more creative and devious than the devs could ever be. Let us try to exploit the frick out of them and then have you see what we’ve done with these new tools… then scale them up/down appropriately before everyone has to deal with it in “actual” WvW.

Sebrent.3625:

(1) It’s “played”

(2) I’ve played thief plenty

(3) I know if I wait 1-2 seconds and then hit my block that it will outlast the stealth … the issue is that a Thief can backstab my block, my block then goes away (unless you’re warrior shield stance) and then the thief, who is still stealthed, backstabs again. It takes the thief 0.5 seconds because backstab is a 0.25s cast.

(4) I was talking about the shatters well before you came into this conversation.

(5) If changing your facing isn’t how you get a frontstab, do please enlighten everyone as to how to magically force a thief to stab your face instead of your back.

Please read the actual discussion before you continue trying to take part in it.

So sorry about the grammar error, totally worth point out and very relevant to this conversation.

From this discussion it doesn’t sound like you learned very much from your time as a thief.

Once again… for the 3rd time… you had an opportunity to counter and take away a LOT of the thief’s ini when they entered stealth. That’s when you block/blind. That’s a high enough penalty on the thief.

You quoted me and responded about shatters lol.

You don’t just rapidly change where you face, you back off then change face.

Sorry you don’t like my logic.

L2P guard better and you’ll stomp thieves with the current mechanics. I and many others have NO problems with it.

If you just hit 80 you’re probably not rich. Find what dung gives the tokens for these stats and go do them. You may also be able to get some of the stats you want from karma vendors in orr.

Jewelry you’ll probably need to craft/buy unless it’s available from karma.

If you want valk gear though… you’ll have to buy it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_armor_sets

You can also make weapons cheap through the mystic forge if you have skill points (check to see if they have the stats you want on the items)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_weapons

I used it all the time on my P/D setup. It’s very useful for getting out of immobilizes when people are trying to gang on you. Also if you’re out of dodge and some guard is using whirl (or whatever) it’ll get you out of there and prevent that damage.

It’s not a gap closer, it’s a gap creator. Very very useful.

Sebrent.3625:

Aberrant.6749:

If your mesmer misses a part of her aa chain it does the same attack again. Attacks from stealth are also 1. attacks. I see nothing different/wrong here… plus sorry but as I mentioned before you had a chance to stop the combo before when they entered stealth… and you can still avoid it after via positioning (you can force them to frontstab easily enough)/dodges/blocks/blinds/invlun.

You just can’t sit there and blind/block the thief once AFTER c&d to cause revealed.

Incorrect. If shatters are blocked, they still go on cooldown (and you lose your illusions!)

If you dodge, line-of-sight, block, blurred frenzy, etc. when a Mesmer is casting an illusion on you, it will go on a FULL cooldown and NOT summon the illusion. I.E. the Mesmer is punished (or you’re rewarded) by you “playing well”.

Changing your facing rapidly while a thief is stealthed only works on bad thieves.

Backstab is far from an auto-attack chain skill. It does immensely more damage. If you want to tree it as such, then let’s lower its damage to that … then we can talk about it being unblockable, lol.

Right now, if I wait for 2 seconds and hit my block, the thief can hit me twice. Once to make my Mesmer block end and a 2nd time in order to land their backstab. That’s silly.

You’re saying that “I have a chance to stop the combo”. Well, on the same hand, even more so since they are stealthed, the Thief has a chance to realize their foe has Aegis, is blocking, is dodging, etc. and not gain the revealed debuff with what would be a fruitless backstab.

Why should others have to realize what the Thief is doing but the Thief doesn’t have to realize what others are doing? That is a bit hypocritical.

Since when is a shatter part of the aa chain? >.> All skills on the #1 slot behave this way. Nice try though.

Changing face rapidly isn’t how you get them to frontstab.

Blocks last longer than the full stealth time, so idk where you’re going with that one… that’s just silly.

It’s very obvious you’ve never plaid a thief.

I’ve plaid multiple classes extensively… including guard. Guards already have a metric ton of skills they can use to stop a thief dead. If you die from a thief on your guard it’s your own fault.

IMO they should have added in something to where if you do X runs you’ll at least get one mini/backpack for certain (acc bound). Even if X is 50 runs (which I have done more than but still no mini/backpack).

If your mesmer misses a part of her aa chain it does the same attack again. Attacks from stealth are also 1. attacks. I see nothing different/wrong here… plus sorry but as I mentioned before you had a chance to stop the combo before when they entered stealth… and you can still avoid it after via positioning (you can force them to frontstab easily enough)/dodges/blocks/blinds/invlun.

You just can’t sit there and blind/block the thief once AFTER c&d to cause revealed.

Everyone in this thread =’s

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhy7dXWjpAA[/video]

51 runs and no one in my party any of the time has gotten a mini nor a jetpack o.O

I’m really starting to wonder if the drop rate got bugged.

Gotten the morph recipe twice though : /

Yamato Shinobi.4378:

Hickeroar.9734:

Avenge.1478:

Bones.5762:

Yamato Shinobi.4378:

After the AC change, golems are way less viable too. I witnessed a 35+ golem rush on hills and were able to take down NW Outer gate, but only had like 2-3 remaining once inside outer gate, and the remaining 3 just melted due to AC (as did all the others) very quickly.

tbh, thats just sad, even with the AC buff, which i hate, 35 golems should be able to take the first gate in like 30seconds or less, idk how u failed there unless they were opening fire on you before ur golems even got to the gate.

It was SoR who did that. I was manning one of the golems and yes, the gate went down like butter, but seeing 130k HP drop to zero in like 10 seconds is kind of depressing.

I put 30 points into AC and I dont even care if they nerf them and I lose 30 points, just make them reasonable again.

This is the kinda story that really makes me sad about the change. Even if they melted troops, stuff like golems and rams shouldn’t really be taking much damage from ACs. The only way 35 golems should be killed in a push like that is if all of hell is raining down on them.

To be fair, the port up to the gate was botched, however, there were so many darn ACs that couldn’t be easily cleared (both outer/inner) that it wouldn’t have mattered as much. You see the distance and radius on the ACs make it much harder to take them down. You literally have to get lucky to have not much of a force defending with ACs coupled with bad placements and non-ranked ppl on the ACs to have a good chance. Which we finally had today with 9 golems. 6 melted after taking the outer door, had to flash build 3 more once inside and take inner after clearing siege. Luckily the enemy didn’t show up in the numbers they could have and we barely took it with that compliment. If Hills was well defended with proper AC placement and ranked ppl on them, plus a modest compliment of defenders (20 or so), it’s simply dead hard to near impossible to take hills. :P

I’ve been with groups that have defeated 40+ assaulters with about 15 in hills… and that was before this last patch…

Travlane.5948:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Volrath.1473:

Daendur.2357:

With the introduction of Larcenous Strike a lot of thieves started to run S/D and here we are:
2 seconds of daze every 3 seconds …
So i figure soon there will be a “nerf daze” cryfest.

Opinions ?

Actually it is every 4 seconds, normally more cuz the thief those in a FS before CnD, and if the thief manages to land ALL his CnD AND tactical strike on you, then the problem is not the thief…

Well, the 2 second long daze every 4 seconds is a bit too much. Two well synced thieves could daze lock a target. And at least in my tier thieves usually run in pairs.

Expect a nerf coming and changing it in WvWvW to 1.5 s duration daze like it is in pvp.

The biggest problem is the Cloak & Dagger skill. It is simply overpowered in a WvWvW setting. Doing too much in one skill: high damage, vulnerability and 3 s stealth, all in one skill which costs only 6-2=4 initiative with infusion of shadow trait. For pvp this might be fine, but WvWvW maps are much bigger and fights much more chaotic and there are lot of cute deers and whatever forest animals you can use to trigger C&D to get stealth on demand.

well heres half ur problem with the skill…..vulnerability is low and barely a differnce of what llike 45 dmg? :P and thats after anyway. 2nd the skill costs 6…not 4…..u have to look at the skill by itself…not traited….or half of the classes F skills would be nerfed :P…..6 initiative is half our pool…..if we miss (which is atleast 50%) we are in big trouble. its a very slow action so easy to dodge block and evade. the skill itself is fine….not trying to be mean but thieves are easier than ever to kill right now. they really dont have much of a place in wvw or spvp/tpvp right now. L2 kitten ue.

I think he/she was being sarcastic…

Omg… a guard complaining about a thief… are you even serious right now…

It’s far too easy for a guard to pop a block and totally counter a thief’s stealth attack if it revealed them. It’s far too easy for other classes to use invuln in that way as well.

You can block c&d and they won’t go into stealth. You can CC/position so the d/p thief doesn’t enter stealth. Before they enter stealth is when you have a chance to shut down their combo (and drain their ini… which will probably kill them)… you just can’t do it afterwards.

CptAurellian.9537:

According to ANet, even condition builds are great for a guardian …

Lol-ed.

@ Topic… warriors shouldn’t have protection + very high hp… wars have access to far more offensive boons/traits. War can suck up damage while pounding away due to the high HP pool. These things free you up to be able to put stats in other places more freely. That’s war’s thing.

Do I think wars need some love? Yes. This just isn’t the right way at all.

Focus for PvE for sure ^^

Grouping/CC/party swiftness/hard hitting aoe phantasm that blocks projectiles… and is a whirl finisher to boot

Fuschia.6573:

jportell.2197:

Fuschia.6573:

jportell.2197:

No randoms.

Random conditions are a mainstay of Mesmer design, and are actually very powerful when mixed with condition duration – one skill can stack several different conditions, each of which needs to be cleansed separately.

So, yeah, I’m in favor of more random conditions, as they are both fitting and, in some ways, more powerful.

This is why everyone says the staff AA is so great? The problem with randoms is usually RNG is not in our favor (staff stacking nothing but vulnerability when you want fire/bleeds.) Which brings me to the point of staff already pumps out random conditions… Give the scepter confusion somewhere in its AA…. Why? Because now when specced right all skills in scepter torch cause or have the potential to cause confusion… This would solidify its role.

The last thing mesmers need is even MORE RNG in their skills.
EDIT: random conditions aren’t a mainstay of Mesmer design… They are a mainstay of the staff on the Mesmer. Every other weapon we have does only specific conditions…

A handful of things you have wrong…

1) I never stated Scepter shouldn’t get a consistent condition. One is good, and confusion is the proper one since it fits well with Mesmer class design.

2) I never said Staff AA was great, I said that condition duration with a skill that can quickly stack multiple conditions can be excellent because of the difficulty of cleansing each condition in turn.

Is Staff AA great with condition duration? Yes, it is. Does this necessarily mean Staff AA is great? No, no it does not.

I, personally, love Staff AA now that condition duration works with illusions, but we’ll have to see whether or not the numbers work out well or not before I can comment on how strong it is.

3) RNG is not necessarily a bad thing. Look at critical hits – they’re RNG and are incorporated into every class. RNG is a bad thing when there is too much of it, and a limitation to 2-4 conditions/boon when gaining a ‘random’ condition/boon is not at that point.

I would agree with you, however, if ‘random’ really meant ‘random’ and chose from all boons/conditions, as this gives you no reliable effect.

4) Random conditions and boons are a mainstay of Mesmer design. Staff auto-attack, Chaos Storm, Chaos Armor, Signet of Inspiration, Bountiful Interruption, Debilitating Dissipation, Chaotic Interruption…

RNG isn’t a bad thing if it’s all similar effects. The dev’s looked @ eng’s RNG and removed some things so that the effects were similar (elixer U used to put out a projectile reflect/block/veil).

Vuln doesn’t really go with a condition set up… neither does a phantasm which is power based. Heck I enjoy staff more with a power based build than a cond one. At least then I know everything will be useful vs. oh look 5 stacks of vuln in a row… when my non-cond dmg is minimal… wonderful…

(This is from a PvP POV)

jportell.2197:

shimmerless.4560:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Well glass shatter has really hard time against a decent glass thief. Mainly because thief will win the stealthing game and so mesmer has to be the one reacting. P/D thief will also defeat most mesmers trivially. Some glassy phantasam mesmers with right traits will still win against those too, though.

Lol, i just dueled this amazing ranger and lost like 3 times in a row. He then decides to call Mesmers OP after he beat me haha. Some people…

Ranger is almost kittened in spvp… In wvw its differend though, they can’t just face tank everything there.

My main is a mesmer but I also have a thief. And I have to say that thief >>>>>>>>>>> mesmer…

What’s so strong about P/D?

Bleed stacks mainly….. But its hard to pull off because of the off hand dagger you are still kiteable.

Having plaid a P/D thief it’s a pretty easy fight vs most mesmers. Mes generally lacks condition removal… plus tons of clones to c&d off of. P/D doesn’t care much what it hits with c&d, the damage is from the bleeds (sneak attack). So just c&d off of anything, pew pew at the main target and watch them bleed out.

P/D has a lot more counters (non-mes) than other thief builds do though…

MiLkZz.4789:

WvW is broken atm, you will be seeing this a lot more. Many guilds are thinking of not playing for points anymore, just plain and simple open ground battles against other guilds (no ACs allowed).

Which is in my opinion great.

Omg I would love this…

If only a-net had made several million dollars on this game…

This really comes down to if you want the siege vs siege to be the main show or you want player on player action to be the main show.

Siege vs. Siege (push 1,2,3) is far less dynamic. In a player vs player fight everyone is acting and reacting constantly… Vs. one person mans the siege the rest sit and watch or run supplies. You don’t have to set up any combo fields or use nearly as many tatics. Heck, you don’t even need to have gear, be above level 1, have utilities, etc etc. There is FAR less skill involved with siege being so strong.

Before they supported players… which was good for both people who like to fight and those who like to siege. But now…

What skills (any class) are stronger in WvW than tPvP?

Confusion was pre-patch, guard dodge heal is post patch… what else is there?

I’m wondering because if they started with confusion I don’t see them stopping until they nerf these sorts of things down to tPvP levels (which I don’t agree with).

Mesmers punish new players the most (alongside with thieves). That’s because they fall for the deception aspect of the class. A good player won’t. To a new player they don’t understand what’s going on and just see clones and then the mesmer dissapears. They don’t see the tells for what’s going on. They get confused and start swatting at clones etc.

Same thing happens with a thief… they see the thief disappears and just start acting like grazing cattle. Then boom… backstab/heartseeker (or daze or whatever) and they die.

A good player will know what to expect from that mesmer/thief every single time and counter it.

Iruwen.3164:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Fix-most-broken-autoattack-in-game/first#post1947626
So guardians get it fixed? We should cry more, maybe they’ll fix it for us too.

Woah woah there… guard scepter auto attack is the worst auto attack in the game. You’ll nearly hit yourself with the orbs if you’re running in the same direction with swiftness. It needs a fix and has needed one badly for a very long time.

That’s not to say there aren’t other weapons that need love too.

I 100% agree that scepter needs a large rework.

Don’t get upset that they are fixing problems for any class. Eventually they’ll get around to mesmer’s issues.