Guild Wars 2

Squibbles.8724:

Oh my god! They’re not splitting Xp up! The world is ending!

Seriously people. Get a grip, unbunch your panties. You lot have no idea what this progression even really entails.

Furthermore, WvW and sPvP are two different game modes that reward based on different skill sets. sPvP focuses on the individual, WvW focuses on group coordination.

Yes, uncoordinated zergballs are full of fail. But ask Red Guard or many other extremely well coordinated outfits how much skill is involved. To me, an extremely well-coordinated GvG engagement is far more impressive than a single player duel, simply because of the fact that you’re combining the efforts of 20 people into a well-oiled machine of death.

It’s like the difference between a solo violinist and an orchestra. Both involve very skilled individuals. One shines because of personal brilliance, the other because of discipline and coordination.

Actually its like an orchestra that plays so kittening loud it doessent matter what any one person does.

Analogy doessent make sense? Neither does this system

Amins.3710:

Hey Initialize [EDGE], you going to /invite me to party and spew off profanity?

Sure, I’ll 1v1 your panzy kitten

Tell me when and where.

Did you zerg him?

Thats not cool bro…

Im gonna have to play p v circle to find a decent fight anymore arnt I.

I just…why…

Wow, what a terrible decision.

Ive read a number of times that anet would like to reward more small team play in wvw. Well, this aint the way to do it.

Apparently the pinnacle of pvp was in 2001 and its been downhill from there.

You know sometime else that would also be fantastic is a minimalist spell effects setting.

As mentioned it absolutely guarantees avoiding a stamp unless you hit it too early and lose stealth before the stomp lands. A lot of mesmers do this btw.

If the downed player is stealthed when the stomp lands it will not go through. This is basic stuff guys and also why thieves are the best combat rezzer with shadow refuge.

People played war hammer?

sostronk.8167:

Acelerion.6820:

Remove down state.

Alternatively replace #1 with a small ally targetable heal, #2 with guardian push back, #3 with a small duration group buff, and #4 as is.

Didn’t they say they were going to remove downed state a long time ago? I kept saying, must be next patch, but its never come.

Downstate and rally are something I kept expecting changes to because its obviously stupid and fundamentally unbalanced. I’m starting to think a net wants it that way

Lol

15characters

Balance on the small scale can imply some reasonable balance on the large scale so I’d start there. The problem is that wvw gets leftover changes from spvp and no specific attention at all. This is the biggest problem.

I’m not saying thieves shouldn’t be able to drop fights. I’m saying the balance of the class has to take these things into consideration and not just blow it off because a net said it was intended.

If a net said thieves were supposed to have the highest damage, highest defense, and best utility and mobility it would be obviously unbalanced despite being intended. That’s the only point I’m trying to make.

Remove down state.

Alternatively replace #1 with a small ally targetable heal, #2 with guardian push back, #3 with a small duration group buff, and #4 as is.

I absolutely agree. The “wvw is supposed to be unbalanced” crap is a cop out and every effort should be made to balance things in that specific environment.

My point is that working as intended != balance and you can’t use one to imply the other.

“Who said they weren’t viable? " – No problem I misread.

To the second part Im not making claims one way or another. However, using intentions as justification for balance is not sound. Anet could have “intended” class x to be grossly overpowered or pigeonholed them into being subpar. Check out the warrior forums with the condition cleanse issues.

Intended or not thieves have the capability of resetting fights at will. That has to be considered on its own merits when talking about balance.

D/d s/d d/p p/d and short bow are all more than viable in wvw anyway. And saying a net intended something isn’t a good argument for balance one way or another.

I have no problem with that either. Its taking the damage side of the utility/damage coin.

You talk like thieves are helpless without a high damage heart seeker. The reality is that it would put them right on the target so they could, you know, hit them with auto attack.

I have no argument in principle though. A cripple/chill is something a target can react to while the thief works on setting up higher damage options

When people talk about spammers it doesent necessarily mean opening on targets with a barrage of 2s.

Anet keeps reducing the damage and people keep complaining about it. Its because the skill combines incredibly high damage and fantastic utility. It gives thieves the ability to front load and back load damage all while being very difficult to shake.

In my opinion hs should hit for less than autoattack all the time and apply a cripple or something. The nerf on dancing dagger should be partially reverted and changed to a poison as a ranged dps option.

Heart seeker as it stands is a silly skill and is absolutely a crutch for not being able to track your targets properly

dreztina.4820:

ECHO? What happened to GF?

Lurking devonas threads huh? You and noob should totes transfer and we can run a gimmicky 5 man~~

E bay….Still all thieves and still all bad (no disrespect to the good ones~~~)

Ive put in a number of hours on thief/mez/necro. Ive seen the whole thing from both perspectives.

If heat seeker did minimal damage it would still be a cheap, spammable gap closer and leap finisher. I also dont understand why a spec that is so good at front loading damage needs to be able to back load this much damage as well. I feel that the “finisher” functionality is more in line with the sword mainhand than dagger.

On the other hand I understand why thieves require this level of burst in tpvp. The ability of pure bunkers to mitigate damage requires ridiculous levels of burst to compensate. The burst/bunker dynamic is too extreme on both ends, a problem that is exacerbated in wvw thanks to the ability to stack stats further in each direction.

The result of all this is that wvw plays more like a god kitten fps than an mmo and needs some serious adjustments all around. Adjustments that it will never get because no one important cares.

tl:dr: heart seeker needs to decide if it wants to be damage or utility, it shouldent have both. Compensate in other areas ect…

How many classes can outrun a thief again? There’s decent arguments on both sides, that isn’t one of them.

After playing a lot of dd and sd here’s my suggestions.

1. Make daze on tac strike require rear positioning instead of the 270 degree arc it currently has.
2. Carry over the cnd damage reduction from spvp.
3. Remove the finisher functionality from heart seeker and put it on the sword #2. Make heart seeker a low-moderate damage cripple.
4. Revert half of the damage nerf on dancing dagger, poison instead of cripple, and increase projectile speed significantly.

Rally shouldn’t exist anywhere and down state abilities should be about supporting team mates instead of damage if it has to stay in the game

I play quite a bit of duo/trio wvw and people would be surprised how well arena death match would work “out of the box”. Some of the better guilds out there put up good 2-3 minute fights. A team full of glass will get completely destroyed and there a quite a few group compositions that are viable.

The biggest problem with 2v2 or 3v3 is that there will be a pretty obvious rock paper scisors deal with group composition.

Groups would carry thieves around if they did no damage at all just for the rez/stomp utility they bring.

cd→steal→bs has a break opportunity before the backstab. bs→steal is immediate, large, unavoidable and is usually followed by copious heart seeking (not that thats different than anything else).

now that the scores are settled we can all quit zerging

thanks in advance~~

Thieves work great in group skirmish situations

d/p is the cheese insta-burst spec, at least you can stun break d/d.

Its not complicated and it gives great returns without having to play it well.

Yeah this whole burst/bunker dynamic is pretty silly

We transfered from maguuma to avoid the zergyness. They are getting stomped by tc for the same reason they will stomp sbi…population.

The population gradient in this 3,4,5 tier range is extreme.

Imagine for a moment that heart seeker delt 1 damage and applied a cripple or something. Still an amazing gap closer worth its initiative cost just with significantly less cheese. This type of finisher belongs in the sword main hand and certainly not the already high damage dagger.

I disagree that fast travel needs to be left in. It takes a minimal amount of time to get anywhere. And if you get killed it should take a minute to get back to a fight.

Creepy Silent.9801:

Sepsis.1564:

jazzllanna.1278:

:( Well looks like a dull week of wvw.

Recently arriving from Mag, this server is a breath of fresh air …

There aren’t two or three 30+ man, ultra culling, CPU draging Zergs on each Map

From what I gathered over the past few days the standard roaming zerg is 8-13 and rarely there is +20 person zerg (prime-time last night). There are a good many solos, duos and trios running around.

The population level on this match-up really caters to our guild’s small man skirmishing play-style.

For me this match-up is anything but boring!

I’ve seen you guys roaming around, the little asuran guys! Glad to see some other fellow roamers from our server

Do you guys have any videos by chance?

Thanks. Just the vid in my Sig. Long ago, diff classes, and a 7 man vs the 2-4 we run now.

What the hell is with all these ballsy thieves that insist on running into my duo…Were running away because we arnt interested in ganking solos, it would be a better idea to not chase

Stiv.1820:

Acelerion.6820:

P/d thief vs shatter Mesmer. Theif can’t die if he’s smart, same as always. Have to hope he hangs around at about 60% health so you can burst him down at once. Bring dat torch for condition cleanse.

Or use reflect heal with con cleanse food and sigils of generosity. Mesmer con cleanse sucks anyway so it’s not wasted. 90% of Thieves will SR to bail, focus pull to your feet then MI (decoy too if up)+Wrack+BF and you have a dead thief rendering at your feet.

Shadow refuge is large enough to dodge roll from on side to the other. On my thief 2 rolls is about all that’s required to lock in stealth. Pulls/knock backs don’t work on better thieves anymore really. Its a guaranteed get out of jail.

P/d thief vs shatter Mesmer. Theif can’t die if he’s smart, same as always. Have to hope he hangs around at about 60% health so you can burst him down at once. Bring dat torch for condition cleanse.

Indeed. A veritable paradise. Though we are more duo/trio than anything g now days

Oozo.7856:

I think you’ll find the same issues on every server. The main difference being the number of zergs you encounter and how easy or difficult it is to fight them.

The major difference I’ve noticed is that you don’t have 30 person cull trains flying across the island spamming aoe for no discernable reason.

And the minizergs are much more manageable.

Bunzy.8674:

Acelerion.6820:

Oozo.7856:

Acelerion.6820:

dreztina.4820:

Mag will be back in T3 soon. Couple of my friends already transferred off the server because they hate T3 so much, and considering the Mag fairweathers make it so I can’t even enjoy T4 on the rare times we are here, I’m starting to think they did the right thing. Either that or it’s time to get back into spvp. Don’t like the game mode, but at least I can find good fights in tpvp.

Sucks we had to leave:( I loved the roaming community on mag. Past week on devonas is seriously the best rvr since maguuma 2.0

You are OINK on DR?

Yes sir, thought wed come hang out with you fine folks

You left without saying goodbye </3
Did Sepsis go with you?

Yeah. You guys should consider doing the same~~

Oozo.7856:

Acelerion.6820:

dreztina.4820:

Mag will be back in T3 soon. Couple of my friends already transferred off the server because they hate T3 so much, and considering the Mag fairweathers make it so I can’t even enjoy T4 on the rare times we are here, I’m starting to think they did the right thing. Either that or it’s time to get back into spvp. Don’t like the game mode, but at least I can find good fights in tpvp.

Sucks we had to leave:( I loved the roaming community on mag. Past week on devonas is seriously the best rvr since maguuma 2.0

You are OINK on DR?

Yes sir, thought wed come hang out with you fine folks

Wordfifteenchars

If you logged on once in a while maybe you’d know

Its stupid design I hope everyone agrees on that. Unfortunately the scale of changes required to fix it is beyond what we can expect.

dreztina.4820:

Mag will be back in T3 soon. Couple of my friends already transferred off the server because they hate T3 so much, and considering the Mag fairweathers make it so I can’t even enjoy T4 on the rare times we are here, I’m starting to think they did the right thing. Either that or it’s time to get back into spvp. Don’t like the game mode, but at least I can find good fights in tpvp.

Sucks we had to leave:( I loved the roaming community on mag. Past week on devonas is seriously the best rvr since maguuma 2.0

Rock/paper/scissors is no way to balance a game

jkctmc.8754:

. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Even bad thieves can be effective. Its the pub stomp class. Everything you do forces stun breaks so just add on every fight you see until you find people with cool downs. If you guess wrong just wilson out, as you mentioned there is no reason to ever die to anything but other thieves. And then only sometimes.

I actually like the idea of the phase thing. Could change shadow refuge to not drop stealth if you leave it early and leave the stacking the longer you stay in it.

Stealth should still drop target initially as that’s a major use for both thieves and mesmers.