Guild Wars 2

Morfedel.4165:

miriforst.1290:

Morfedel.4165:

And what you missed is that this only added and took nothing whatsoever away. All it did was give options. And even revives area at times necessary in PvE, saving you time to fight while you’re function gyro does the revive.

Furthermore you can trait your gyros to have effects upon death.

So really its at least mediocre if not good. Boring whatsoever wrong with it

Mediocre, i like the sound of that! Ill remember that when other elite specializations dodge 3 times in a row baseline, fire exploding sniper rounds, charge around swinging scythes the size of streetlights and travel back in time.

Jokes aside i do like the idea of the gyro, although i do completely understand people arguing that you wont see it in action for most of your combat and if its really needed it might not be enough. PvPers might find it handy in team fights or XvsX+Y, {X,Y>=1} in general where you need to simmultaniously fight and stomp/revive but there is a thing called downed cleave, and with the “tanky” gyro going down in seconds, does this look good for the function gyro? And then you need another trait for it to preform its task reliably. Think about it, one gravedigger and your 30sec cd “special” mechanic is gone, and the gravedigger is recharged.

Lets consider the gravedigger. Its a spinning attack that easily crits for 10k+ without effort (statwise that is). Its primary function is to execute multiple low health targets and as such work excellent for downed cleave. It had its cool down decrease upped to a 100% for this role to really shine. We need to provide something of that caliber given that this is our continuum shift, reaper form, berserk, triple dodge or what have you. The more situational, the bigger the impact when the criteria is met. A extra dodge have lots of uses during the entire fight, especially with the dodge traits, berserking and pulsing stability is also highly useful during the engagement and a necromancer have to use its reaper form or die trying to get into it (oh dear but when they do…). We need for someone to go down on either side to even show our new mechanic. Of course it should be strong, it might even have to be very strong because thats its one jobb. So massively reducing the cooldown (10 sec max) and limit the drones to one at a time would be a start. I might even suggest increasing the range but let the drone originate at your location to allow for reactive counterplay and increase the importance of aoe superspeed.

And this is from a pvp perspective, in pve half of the mechanic is gone. And so that impacts all of the related traits as well. Including 2 minors. And when you really need your scrapper to save you, now that its finally time for him to unveil his mechanic, consider what got your teammates down in the first place? Either you are in a low risk or a high risk situation. In a low risk situation your gyro might have no problem reviving that ally. But then a lot of the time then neither would you. Sure you might save a second or two, but the gyro wasn’t really needed was it? It was more fancy sure but on a total combat contribution how high would you rate it?

Then we have the high risk situation. Okay all bells are ringing, your allies are down and this isn’t just a matter of timesaving anymore its full whipe alert. But then something managed to take down a few geared characters (a situation where the gyro actually would be needed). So if it can take down that player how long is your frail little bot going to last? This is where 30 seconds of cooldown does not help. Who knows it might actually revive someone but in situations where the gyro is needed (not only usable, needed) the odds of another revive being needed within 30 seconds (or heck 45 sec if it works like the utilities does) is not insignificant.

In the end you need to fulfill a few criteria for it to even be theoretically usable, and then the actual contribution is filtered through layers of potential potential potential potential uses.

All in all a large reduction in cool down is a good way to start. And that change need to happen before the last beta weekend.

Im sorry for sounding grumpy, but know that i am a support oriented character who like the goal of this thing, i always run a duo with another player so the amount of time that i can even use it is above average. So if i am skeptical, imagine then players who do not have the luxury of always having a potential potential potential use?

And yes eles i do feel sorry for your singularities.

Sorry, i rant when i am tired.

And we were specifically discussing the addition of the function gyro to the f key, not the rest of the skills.

Frankly I think it’s a very cool addition, and one I will be using a lot in PvP + world vs world, and possibly a little bit in PvE. The mediocre it was another way of saying it’s not great but it’s not terrible either.

Come on fellow Engineer! This is our chance to help make it great! Don’t settle for mediocre. This is the only time since the game launched three years ago where there is a time a developer has specifically asked for feedback specifically for making the Engineer better. I have been posting walls of text in the other elite spec threads that I had time to properly test because this is a rare chance we have. We don’t have to just live with it. Rather than complain in 3 months (not saying you specifically will, just in general) let’s make the most of the chance we have now to work with Irenio and make it great. That’s the great thing about these feedback threads in the different forums right now. The devs are actually listening to valid feedback. Give your own ideas, say what you like and what doesn’t work, give reasons for it and how it could be better. As long as it’s valid feedback and not just trolling (which there has been very little of so far, good job Engineers!) I think the more of it Irenio has the better. He can focus on what the majority seems to agree on and go from there.

We may not get everything we want. In fact I can guarantee we won’t. But some things will change, and if we make ourselves heard then we can improve the Scrapper. I don’t know why any Engineer would not want to see that happen.

The V.8759:

My sugestions (In my opinion:

• Blast gyro: make it ground targeted, pulling allies in from 600 range, then detonate. Remove knockback to not make it too similar to drop mine.
• Bulwark Gyro: Make it stunbreak, some increaed health
• Purge Gyro: -
• Shredder Gyro: – (Whirls in general should be a little homing)
• Medic Gyro: Increased healing. Make it rewarding to be able to keep it up full time: When more than 6 seconds in use more rewarding than healing turret.
• Sneak Gyro: I think it has some flavour that it is visible. Allies can still stealth it tho.

• Gyros in general: Invulnerabl for first 1,5s after casting. Exclusing blast gyro, no AI: They will always stay with engi (Except for blast gyro ofcourse). Letting them stay with engi must make them be able to do more AoE (Purge gyro be AoE for example).

• Purge Gyro: In addition to clearing 2 conditions every 3 seconds, the Purge Gyro will also break the first incoming disable to the Scrapper. If no valid target has conditions the Purge Gyro will instead apply 5s of Resistance.

• Blast Gyro: This thing carries 3 bombs in it’s awesome looking little basket. You should be able to use 3 tracking darts before it goes on recharge (internal cooldown between darts is fine with me, similar to Mesmer mantra activations). It also needs to be dangerous, like BOB level damage. Give it a blast finisher too please, that’s the things name for goodness sake!

• Sneak Gyro: To me this just needs to not aggro enemy NPCs like a Ranger pet. Without being able to play it I think I’m okay with the counterplay of being visible. It’s a low cooldown and instant activation so I think that’s fair, but I don’t want to get in combat if I use it to run by something. The whole Scrapper spec is pretty PvP focused, throw PvE a bone on this one Irenio!

I’m repeating myself here, but there’s such a slew of feedback right now I don’t feel like I’m spamming. Rather than a set amount of invuln I’d rather see the gyros get a buff identical to Endure Pain, call it Gyro Armor. Makes them last longer, they’re still killable, and susceptible to all conditions and CC.

I’m thinking Soldiers more than Cele, but Cele may be best for the precision and ferocity.

I think Firearms + Scrapper + Alch/Inv/Tools would be a good choice all for different reasons. Alch for more boons and condi clearing. Inventions for more defense and sustain (I really am looking forward to Bunker Down for a Scrapper). Tools for some more utility.

warherox.7943:

It definitely should. It should also have no cast time.

I agree, this is the main reason I do not run it even if it would fit nicely in a build I make (like a glass nuker).

Now that Infuse Light for Revs is a thing, I don’t see a problem making this instant.

ocirne.7915:

Dahkeus.8243:

@ Ocirne: Thank you for your contribution here. Sad to see so many people who are taking their frustration of the meta out on you.

I’m glad to see that the scrapper will be worth using in a DPS-focused build. Too bad the auto attack doesn’t fit in, but that’s probably to be expected considering how good the non-AA skills are.

I almost wish we didn’t have vuln and might on the weapon though. I have a feeling there will be plenty of this in a group setting to be capped even without this, making those a bit of a waste.

Thanks,

I would have personally loved to see a blast finisher on the auto 3rd hit and a bit more damage.

I think that would be great, but it would also likely come with bumping it up to 1s activation which I don’t think would be worth it.

I believe all of the elite specs so far that have given a main hand weapon have had that damage increased throughout testing. I still have hope that hammer auto can do more than grenades. It is the most risky play style being right in melee range, so it should do the most damage. I wouldn’t be super upset if this wasn’t the case since it is such an awesome all around weapon, but I can definitely justify +20% damage to at least equal grenades.

I think it’s way too late in the development cycle to add any of these, although I like option 2. I would like to see them just be orbs on the ground like you get from staff Rev. Make them look like floating gears (think Watchwork Mossheart ground attack from TA Aether path). I don’t want yet another thing I have to use my activation key for. Healing Turret pickup, banners, ele conjures, not to mention fractal/dungeon specific items like boulders/crystals/etc.

Voramoz.6790:

Our grandmaster minor increases our stun duration. News flash, scrapper cannot stun. There is not one stun in the whole spec. Engineers have a grand total of five stuns. Can you name them all? One is a ripoff from another profession. None in the elite spec. It should be daze, gyro detonation should blast. This whole reveal shows that they planned something else then canceled it at the last minute. Anet even forgot that blast+lightning is the normal way to get swiftness out of the lightning field and so they botched a trait to give swife on leap. Evey gyro should blast finisher on destruct. Guess what, scrapper also cannot blast finisher internally.

They failed to deliver us an elite specialization. It is very clear that the stomp rez bot was moved down from master minor, or improvised at the last minute due to the canceling of a real elite. Players who didn’t read the notes are not even aware of stomp rez bot and it is supposed to be the new elite mechanic.

This is nothing. Wait till the BWE lets us play this weak excuse for an elite specialization. That is when I’m going to drop my big post eviscerating it.

There is not a single thing that has ever made me think about quitting this game more than this reveal. When I think about elite specializations now, the only one I’m excited for is Berserker… And Engineer has always been my main…

The idea that synergy with other trait lines is a selling point is an insult to the players. This is not to say that elite spec trait lines stand on their own but this reveal, this spec is garbage. It would not surprise me one bit if three months after hot they “retool” scrapper and rerelease it with whatever they intended to release it with.

Hammer #5 is actually a stun. I thought that I saw somewhere that Final Salvo upgrades the daze when a gyro dies to a stun. Either way, I think this minor trait should either (a) not be a minor trait or (b) also affect dazes which we can do a ton of. Just stuns is sort of bad since like you said we don’t have a ton of access to those. It does decrease stun duration though which is pretty great. Combined with the good amount of stability uptime you’re not likely to get stun locked too much. Still, should not be a minor and should be a choice I think.

If you like gyros as they are, then great. Let the rest of us provide feedback on what clearly looks like it’s headed down the same road to Obsolete-town as turrets.

If you don’t think we should be providing feedback, take it up with Irenio who told us it’s not done and he wants feedback. I don’t get why you’re so stuck on this.

EDIT: Not making them better because they might one day be nerfed… this logic is mind boggling. They’re not good, they need to be better. Let’s focus on making them well balanced and useful so they don’t need to be nerfed, and they are worth using.

I’m not sure you have the way Mass Momentum works right. You might, but I don’t think you do.

It says while you have stability you gain might. Interval 1 second. To me this means as long as you have stability you will get 1 stack of might every second. So you would be able to maintain 5 stacks for having perma stability. It’s not tied to the pulse interval of Juggernaut in any way. Similarly the hammer trait Perfectly Weighted combined with this trait would give you 3 stacks of might total.

It would be nice if it were longer, I agree. I just think it adds a little more than you have calculated OP.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Adamantium.3682:

I still think you’re off on some of this.

1) I don’t need to play it to know that 12k health for the tankiest gyro is bad. They follow us into battle, or in the case of the Shredder we place them directly into battle. They will die instantly. I’m okay with the intent to be short term bots that have a meaningful function, but that currently isn’t the case.

2) In your analogy the manufacturer has asked for feedback on the features of the car, not how it feels to drive. We’re telling him the body looks great, the seats are comfortable, but the sound system sucks really bad.

3) All you see is talk about how fast they will die because that’s what matters. It doesn’t matter how cool they are if they can’t live to be cool. I don’t see pessimism to be honest, and I made a post just a few days ago saying these forums really seem to be going downhill. This was after the Wednesday article when it was pure conjecture and doom and gloom. What I see now is most people agreeing the hammer is awesome, the traits are pretty solid, but the gyros are terrible. I see a lot of constructive posts. I don’t see pessimism I see a lot of helpful suggestions to make gyros not suck.

1)If your using a hammer sure. But what about if your using a rifle or pistol? Or even Elixir gun. The chances of them dieing from cleave will be reduced greatly. As for the shredder, place it somewhere that can benefit teammates or even behind the enemy. From what your saying, your placing it right ontop of the enemies aoe.

2)If you werent inside the car and was just a outside observer, you wouldnt know 2 of the 3.

3)There is pessimism because people arent even trying to see the good in it. All they complain about is its health but dont try to see ways of using the thing without saying. “Itl Die fast cause cleave and aoe”. thats literally all minions, but these dont have the whole, chase down enemy concept to charge through enemy attacks. You have a chance to defend some of these and i honestly doubt they will be targeted over a number of teammates constantly in there face.

Alright, one more try.

1) The Scrapper is designed to be in close combat. The gyros need to survive in that environment, period. Saying they’ll work at range is not a solution (and still not true as 1 AOE circle is likely to kill them — they don’t dodge).

2) kitten man, it was your analogy! We have seen enough of the Scrapper to be able to provide some feedback, period.

3) 2/3 parts of the Scrapper are good and most people here seem to agree with that. It’s the gyros that are bad. This is not pessimism. I don’t get why gyros dying so fast is not a big deal to you, that literally trumps anything else they can do. If they’re not alive they can’t do anything. The tankiest one has 11k health. The tankiest. This is supposed to absorb damage from our whole group. 11k.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Adamantium.3682:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Adamantium.3682:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Adamantium.3682:

miriforst.1290:

If i get a 100 killshot warriors to line up on a row and reflect them it does not mean that the reflect skill should have a cooldown based on “this skill once downed a 100 warriors”.

The gyro already got a limited health bar and needs yet another trait to gain stability.

I think it would be better to balance it around having to actually get to its target to:

1) better telegraph whats going on for the enemy team.
2) increase the synergy with our shared super speed.
3) be able to increase the range, the range being offset by the time it takes for the drone to travel.

I think what you said is very important. I don’t think the gyro should appear right on top of your target either. Anet’s favorite buzzword is counterplay, where is the counterplay in that? I actually think the fact that it just appears on your target might be a big part of the ridiculous cooldown.

Make the Gyro appear at the Scrapper and immediately move toward the selected target (here’s your counterplay). Up the range to 900, if not 1200 (more range, more functionality, more counterplay opportunity while it’s moving toward target). Remove the cooldown. Using the Function Gyro destroys any currently active Function Gyro.

I like this. I still think a modest cooldown makes sense.

The big issue here is Final Salvo.

I’m open to a cooldown not exceeding 10 seconds. I would like to see it in action before determining one way or another, I just feel the times that you would want it back-to-back are SO niche that we should just let that be an option the Engineer has.

Nerfing the base mechanic because of a potential GM trait problem annoys me greatly. That sounds backwards to me.

Final Salvo/Stabilizing Core are issues for your buff, not the original design. 8 – 10 seconds is good. Maybe even a bit too good.

And no back-to-back use is just something we will have to live without as a penalty for increased synergy between traits.

Final Salvo would require a harsh nerf at the very least and Stabilizing Core would need a 20 – 25 sec cooldown.

Fair enough. I would gladly put the cooldown on Stabilizing Core instead of the Function Gyro. Sign me up. Don’t nerf the base mechanic because of a potential broken trait combo is all I’m saying.

As for Final Salvo? Just make it so replacing your current Function Gyro with a new one isn’t considered destroying. It won’t make an AOE field, it won’t daze, it’s not a self destruct. Let’s say you call it back to you and then it performs function on another target instead.

Done and done. What do you think?

A cooldown is still really needed.

If you and are fighting a player near another downed opponent, you can forever divide your current opponent’s attention between you and the down player.

That is TOO good.

I think you’re stretching it now. Downed bodies don’t last that long. In this hypothetical situation the downed body is either going to be (a) stomped by your gyro, (b) cleaved to death by you while fighting the other guy, or © revived by the other guy. This is going to happen within 10-15s just like it always does no matter how many times they manage to kill your gyro and you resummon it in that time. I don’t see this being a problem at all.

I’m willing to play it out and see (if the changes actually get it to this place you and I are discussing) but I really don’t see this being a problem.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Adamantium.3682:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Adamantium.3682:

miriforst.1290:

If i get a 100 killshot warriors to line up on a row and reflect them it does not mean that the reflect skill should have a cooldown based on “this skill once downed a 100 warriors”.

The gyro already got a limited health bar and needs yet another trait to gain stability.

I think it would be better to balance it around having to actually get to its target to:

1) better telegraph whats going on for the enemy team.
2) increase the synergy with our shared super speed.
3) be able to increase the range, the range being offset by the time it takes for the drone to travel.

I think what you said is very important. I don’t think the gyro should appear right on top of your target either. Anet’s favorite buzzword is counterplay, where is the counterplay in that? I actually think the fact that it just appears on your target might be a big part of the ridiculous cooldown.

Make the Gyro appear at the Scrapper and immediately move toward the selected target (here’s your counterplay). Up the range to 900, if not 1200 (more range, more functionality, more counterplay opportunity while it’s moving toward target). Remove the cooldown. Using the Function Gyro destroys any currently active Function Gyro.

I like this. I still think a modest cooldown makes sense.

The big issue here is Final Salvo.

I’m open to a cooldown not exceeding 10 seconds. I would like to see it in action before determining one way or another, I just feel the times that you would want it back-to-back are SO niche that we should just let that be an option the Engineer has.

Nerfing the base mechanic because of a potential GM trait problem annoys me greatly. That sounds backwards to me.

Final Salvo/Stabilizing Core are issues for your buff, not the original design. 8 – 10 seconds is good. Maybe even a bit too good.

And no back-to-back use is just something we will have to live without as a penalty for increased synergy between traits.

Final Salvo would require a harsh nerf at the very least and Stabilizing Core would need a 20 – 25 sec cooldown.

Fair enough. I would gladly put the cooldown on Stabilizing Core instead of the Function Gyro. Sign me up. Don’t nerf the base mechanic because of a potential broken trait combo is all I’m saying.

As for Final Salvo? Just make it so replacing your current Function Gyro with a new one isn’t considered destroying. It won’t make an AOE field, it won’t daze, it’s not a self destruct. Let’s say you call it back to you and then it performs function on another target instead.

Done and done. What do you think?

iKeostuKen.2738:

Adamantium.3682:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Adamantium.3682:

The viability of Spirit Weapons has nothing to do with Gyros. Gyros are also better in every way than turrets, that doesn’t mean they’re good.

How is it hilarious that we want to provide feedback on underwhelming elite spec utilities to hopefully get them improved? Isn’t that the point of the POI reveal and, you know, Irenio telling us it’s not finished and he wants feedback?

Its hilarious because no one has tried out the spec yet but they want to assume something is Dead on Arrival before they themselves have even tried to use it. Everyone is looking at what the gyro does from tooltip perspective, but not how it will perform in some real scenarios in game.

I would normally be with you, but I have a couple issues with this.

1) We have seen it. We saw it on the POI, we saw it after the POI with an actual damage centric amulet. We saw the health numbers of the gyros, we saw the damage numbers of all the skills. We absolutely know what these do, you’re argument held water if we’re all talking about this on Thursday, but since the POI it no longer does. When I see the tank gyro has barely 10k health with no damage reduction whatsoever, I don’t need to play it to know it’s turrets all over again.

2) Irenio specifically said he doesn’t think this is finished yet (I could see how people would find the doom and gloom in that, but I appreciate that statement). He wants feedback. He wants us to tell him what we like and what we don’t like.

3) Even if Irenio himself hadn’t specifically said those things, HoT launches in a month. 4 weeks. One of those weeks is going to be a BWE, and due to Twitch Con that will be at most 3 weeks before HoT launch. Consider that Irenio is also in charge of the Druid. He will have 3 weeks at most to take in feedback from BWE3 and make changes before HoT to BOTH of the last elite specs. If we were providing feedback based on pure speculation, yes I would agree with you. But we’re not, and although there is still some speculation floating around I’m trying to limit it as much as possible in my posts and comment only on known facts. We need to make these 4 weeks as productive as possible in terms of feedback. When we have as much information as we have (all traits and skill details) it makes no sense to not give feedback on them.

1) Youve seen it. Ok sure, But no one has tested it with their own build to know the worth. He only showcased the skills, not what everything is truly capable of. When he was reflecting arrows back at the golems, it seemed as though those numbers were coming from a complete glass cannon ranger built on assassin runes and crit. How rare is it for people to run around being made of that much glass? All gyros will be affected by boons so regen and protection will help greatly in this case ontop of being able to reflect arrows back to its source which was shown on a few skills themselves.

2)Ok sure, he wants feedback. But at this rate, its feedback from people who havent tested it for themselves. Thats like saying you watched someone drive a car and want to give a review on how it felt. It wouldnt be taken seriously by those who manufactured it.

3)How about some accurate information then? People are being pessimistic with there scenarios which doesnt help at all with feedback. To me this profession seems like its tactical team support. But people arent taking the support area of what the gyros can do into consideration because all we hear the complaints about are how long they last, how fast they die. But never anything about toolbelt or the skills in combination of other ones.

I still think you’re off on some of this.

1) I don’t need to play it to know that 12k health for the tankiest gyro is bad. They follow us into battle, or in the case of the Shredder we place them directly into battle. They will die instantly. I’m okay with the intent to be short term bots that have a meaningful function, but that currently isn’t the case.

2) In your analogy the manufacturer has asked for feedback on the features of the car, not how it feels to drive. We’re telling him the body looks great, the seats are comfortable, but the sound system sucks really bad.

3) All you see is talk about how fast they will die because that’s what matters. It doesn’t matter how cool they are if they can’t live to be cool. I don’t see pessimism to be honest, and I made a post just a few days ago saying these forums really seem to be going downhill. This was after the Wednesday article when it was pure conjecture and doom and gloom. What I see now is most people agreeing the hammer is awesome, the traits are pretty solid, but the gyros are terrible. I see a lot of constructive posts. I don’t see pessimism I see a lot of helpful suggestions to make gyros not suck.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Adamantium.3682:

miriforst.1290:

If i get a 100 killshot warriors to line up on a row and reflect them it does not mean that the reflect skill should have a cooldown based on “this skill once downed a 100 warriors”.

The gyro already got a limited health bar and needs yet another trait to gain stability.

I think it would be better to balance it around having to actually get to its target to:

1) better telegraph whats going on for the enemy team.
2) increase the synergy with our shared super speed.
3) be able to increase the range, the range being offset by the time it takes for the drone to travel.

I think what you said is very important. I don’t think the gyro should appear right on top of your target either. Anet’s favorite buzzword is counterplay, where is the counterplay in that? I actually think the fact that it just appears on your target might be a big part of the ridiculous cooldown.

Make the Gyro appear at the Scrapper and immediately move toward the selected target (here’s your counterplay). Up the range to 900, if not 1200 (more range, more functionality, more counterplay opportunity while it’s moving toward target). Remove the cooldown. Using the Function Gyro destroys any currently active Function Gyro.

I like this. I still think a modest cooldown makes sense.

The big issue here is Final Salvo.

I’m open to a cooldown not exceeding 10 seconds. I would like to see it in action before determining one way or another, I just feel the times that you would want it back-to-back are SO niche that we should just let that be an option the Engineer has.

Nerfing the base mechanic because of a potential GM trait problem annoys me greatly. That sounds backwards to me.

miriforst.1290:

If i get a 100 killshot warriors to line up on a row and reflect them it does not mean that the reflect skill should have a cooldown based on “this skill once downed a 100 warriors”.

The gyro already got a limited health bar and needs yet another trait to gain stability.

I think it would be better to balance it around having to actually get to its target to:

1) better telegraph whats going on for the enemy team.
2) increase the synergy with our shared super speed.
3) be able to increase the range, the range being offset by the time it takes for the drone to travel.

I think what you said is very important. I don’t think the gyro should appear right on top of your target either. Anet’s favorite buzzword is counterplay, where is the counterplay in that? I actually think the fact that it just appears on your target might be a big part of the ridiculous cooldown.

Make the Gyro appear at the Scrapper and immediately move toward the selected target (here’s your counterplay). Up the range to 900, if not 1200 (more range, more functionality, more counterplay opportunity while it’s moving toward target). Remove the cooldown. Using the Function Gyro destroys any currently active Function Gyro.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Adamantium.3682:

The viability of Spirit Weapons has nothing to do with Gyros. Gyros are also better in every way than turrets, that doesn’t mean they’re good.

How is it hilarious that we want to provide feedback on underwhelming elite spec utilities to hopefully get them improved? Isn’t that the point of the POI reveal and, you know, Irenio telling us it’s not finished and he wants feedback?

Its hilarious because no one has tried out the spec yet but they want to assume something is Dead on Arrival before they themselves have even tried to use it. Everyone is looking at what the gyro does from tooltip perspective, but not how it will perform in some real scenarios in game.

I would normally be with you, but I have a couple issues with this.

1) We have seen it. We saw it on the POI, we saw it after the POI with an actual damage centric amulet. We saw the health numbers of the gyros, we saw the damage numbers of all the skills. We absolutely know what these do, you’re argument held water if we’re all talking about this on Thursday, but since the POI it no longer does. When I see the tank gyro has barely 10k health with no damage reduction whatsoever, I don’t need to play it to know it’s turrets all over again.

2) Irenio specifically said he doesn’t think this is finished yet (I could see how people would find the doom and gloom in that, but I appreciate that statement). He wants feedback. He wants us to tell him what we like and what we don’t like.

3) Even if Irenio himself hadn’t specifically said those things, HoT launches in a month. 4 weeks. One of those weeks is going to be a BWE, and due to Twitch Con that will be at most 3 weeks before HoT launch. Consider that Irenio is also in charge of the Druid. He will have 3 weeks at most to take in feedback from BWE3 and make changes before HoT to BOTH of the last elite specs. If we were providing feedback based on pure speculation, yes I would agree with you. But we’re not, and although there is still some speculation floating around I’m trying to limit it as much as possible in my posts and comment only on known facts. We need to make these 4 weeks as productive as possible in terms of feedback. When we have as much information as we have (all traits and skill details) it makes no sense to not give feedback on them.

I play PvP so this isn’t from a perspective of “I don’t care about PvP, I only PvE”.

Tuning the Function Gyro for that level of specificity is a mistake. We’re not just talking about PvP in general, or even team fights in general. We’re talking specifically situations where there’s a team fight and multiple people are down AND the Function Gyro is able to get multiple revives/stomps off without being CC’d or killed. That is extremely specific and I certainly hope it’s not being balanced around that sort of idea. Being the mechanic change for the elite spec I think it sort of needs to be able to have that level of impact.

Like others have said, this needs to be on the level of other profession elite spec mechanics. This needs to be on the level of a Mesmer resetting their elite skill and health back to full. A Thief dodging 4-5 times in a row. A Necro with a completely new Shroud. When I look at it with some of those things in mind, being able to potentially revive or stomp two people in a row with my function gyro doesn’t seem all that crazy.

The viability of Spirit Weapons has nothing to do with Gyros. Gyros are also better in every way than turrets, that doesn’t mean they’re good.

How is it hilarious that we want to provide feedback on underwhelming elite spec utilities to hopefully get them improved? Isn’t that the point of the POI reveal and, you know, Irenio telling us it’s not finished and he wants feedback?

It doesn’t look like it does now, but I think it definitely should. Not a single blast in anything Scrapper related is weird, especially with those fields.

Please no. It looked like it did a decent job of locking onto your target, if that is the case I don’t see a reason to make us mash the button 3 times every time we want to use it. At that point it just becomes a single leap skill on a short cool down. I would rather keep the unique flavor.

I would like to see one change to gyros before BWE3. Give them a permanent Endure Pain buff. This might be enough to make them useful.

It would also be nice if the detonate was a blast finisher, really odd that the Scrapper doesn’t have a single one. Not nearly as big if a deal at this point.

Xyonon.3987:

guildabd.6529:

Rozbuska.5263:

Best way how to start fixing gyros is invulnerability. Ofc they still should be interruptable.

+1 make gyros immune to damage and vulnerable to cc.

That would be simply too much and leaving enemies without counterplay. But different resistances would be great, for example:

• bulwark uncrittable
• cleansing gyro immune to conditions
• whirl gyro to have perma stability
• heal gyro to regen himself too
• only the explosive damage gyro should be vulnerable to attacks, yet it needs different buffs, mainly CD lowered to 20 sec after spawn.

Give gyros Endure Pain.

Sarmach.1547:

Lyger.5429:

Like title says, what do you guys think? Personally I think it would be really cool if this didn’t have a cooldown, because it’s basically the engineer’s new class mechanic and would feel to restrictive having it on cd. I believe the ranger skill allies’ aid doesn’t have an icd either. Also would be neat if Anet could allow the function gyro to gather, whenever it gathers it would consume the appropriate tool from your inventory.

First, the Ranger Allies’ Aid ability uses the revive ally shout and thus has the same CD as the shout.

Second, lets run two scenarios:

• WvW- Your team does a good push and successfully downs ~5 players. You run by and hit your interact on each of them as you follow your team through, taking up all of 5 seconds to get an easy 5 war score (assuming you have borderland bloodlust). The feels like too little effort for a decent reward.

• SPvP – You are in a team fight of 4v4. One enemy goes down and you start the function gyro. Toss poison and blind nades for good measure and if the enemy has a stealth on the down, reveal with the elite gryo. All the while the fight went from 4v4 to 4v2/4v1 or your team is just melting the enemy while they all attempt to rub the down. Say they manage to get the down up but due to the melting, one of the revivers is low and they now go down. You are free to drop yet another gyro on them and the melt process begins again. Imagine being on the receiving end of that.

I think no cooldown stomp/revive would be absurd. I would be fine with no cooldown in PvE if they made the function gyro replace your interact when you interact with a harvest node at range and maybe allow you to do conversations at range. It would be silly though to allow you to vender/repair at range since your inventory is on you and not the gyro.

Would you still feel this way if the Rezbot originates at the Engineer and goes to its target rather than just appears on them instantly?

Are.1326:

I think they would still need a cooldown on Stabilization Core to avoid mad stability stacking.

Sounds good to me, it’s pretty backwards otherwise. Put a cooldown on our niche profession mechanic to make it so a trait with no ICD isn’t too powerful? Trait should have cooldown, core mechanic shouldn’t.

Are.1326:

Having no cooldown but the gyro has to move from you to your target would be a lot better than the current implimentation. As it is, it might as well not be a gyro considering how it just spawns at it’s location and stands still.

Good call, I forgot this isn’t how it works. I assumed it would be this way.

It seemed like Irenio was proud of how it will appear directly on top of the target, but I think the best solution would be no cooldown if it could just come from our character and have to make the journey. I hope this eliminates the need for a cooldown, as it has to make the journey from our character every time and all the dangers that entails.

Without having mass testing I can’t say for sure, but I’m leaning towards no. It’s already a niche mechanic, a cooldown is unecessary to me. If spamming it becomes a problem in PvP for some reason, give it a five sec cooldown.

I think there’s a lot of cool looking hammers but it has to be Aetherized for me. Luckily I got it back at 300g months ago just hoping that Engis could use hammers someday.

Now that Super Speed is widely available can we fix the stacking? Currently any application of Super Speed will overwrite any current application of Super Speed.

This means applying a 2 second duration immediately following a 5 second duration makes you lose out on the 5 seconds of Super Speed.

My best solution:

Give Gyros an effect called Gyro Armor. Gyro Armor is identical to Endure Pain. Still can be CC’d, damaged/debuffed through conditions, and killed just not super quickly. Anet seems to want them to be able to be killed, so I don’t think we’ll ever get them to be invulnerable but this might work.

I think the hammer is amazing. Block, evade, reflect, stun, crazy leap all on one weapon!? We also know that at least the damage isn’t terrible, the third auto hits for over 3k with Marauder amulet. Anyways it doesn’t seem like a pure DPS weapon.

I understand that not everyone is going to like the Scrapper no matter what they do with it, but that’s objectively a really good weapon. I can’t think of any other profession that can do what the hammer can do without filling up their entire skill bar.

fluidmonolith.3584:

Adamantium.3682:

Add to Decisive Renown: Super Speed applied by you is enhanced and now ignores Cripple and Chill.

OR… Add to Decisive Renown: +__% Super Speed duration.

OR… Swap Decisive Renown with Shocking Speed.

Slightly off topic, but I think super speed used to increase your movement speed to the same as swiftness out of combat, even if you were in combat and had cripple/chill. Did that change?

I thought it did too, but people were saying it got changed. Honestly I haven’t checked for myself recently, if so obviously just ignore the first one.

Stuns are a core part of the Scrapper, and one of the minors enhances their stuns. Super Speed is also a core part of the Scrapper, I would like to see one of the minors make it unique from the regular Super Speed not applied by a Scrapper. Maybe leaves a trail of damage behind or something. Currently Scrapper doesn’t look that enticing to the PvE crowd, this could help. Trait your Scrapper for Super Speed and each time you have Super Speed you’ll leave a little trail of electricity damage that lasts for a couple seconds and makes enemies vulnerable or something.

Goosekilla.2796:

I’m right with Adamantium. Although I’d add that what I think what the purge gyro really needs is a stun break. I believe that would really make it a tempting skill to slot.

“Search your feelings. You know it to be true.” Lol so right.

Good call with the stun break, I said the same over in the Gyro thread. I think that’s the perfect thing to add to Purge Gyro that may help make it more of a competitive choice. Make it break only the first CC you (the Scrapper) receive while it’s active. Easily identified counterplay as well, when you see it you know your next CC won’t work.

SirPrizeBartSachs.4670:

Scrappers seems to only have 2 new sources of stability:
1) One is only if there is someone to stomp/res
2) The other is only if you evade an attack

Am I right?

Yes, but the evade one is especially significant. 3s on evade every 5s. I don’t expect this translates to 60% uptime (as you’re not evading exactly every 5s) but Rocket Charge only has a 10s cooldown and you’re likely getting at least one evade during that. Add boon duration and the revive/stomp here and there and that’s a ton of stab uptime before you even consider dodging.

Adjust the cooldowns if necessary after making the cooldown start on using the skill, but 30s of downtime is way too much for what the gyros do.

Why are we comparing apples to applies to another profession that has two health bars? The premise of this thread doesn’t make sense to me.

Ronin.5038:

There’s a point to the Medic Gyro.

To more easily distinguish the good engineers from the bad engineers.

Okay this is mean but I chuckled…

Well in the POI thread I do have a long writeup that includes doing something extra with the Purge Gyro. Stun break actually fits pretty well thematically with “purging” negative effects so maybe let it do that ONCE while it is active. It will break the first CC you receive.

Add to Decisive Renown: Super Speed applied by you is enhanced and now ignores Cripple and Chill.

OR… Add to Decisive Renown: +__% Super Speed duration.

OR… Swap Decisive Renown with Shocking Speed.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Functional Gyro itself needs a shorter cooldown. We should be able to use it once every engagement.

20 seconds would be perfect I think.

Frankly I don’t think it should have any cooldown. While I do like what it does, it’s so niche compared to what every other profession gets. Why should I not be able to use it to revive two party members at Mai Trin if they go down within 15s of each other? Maybe a cooldown per target, but how the heck are we supposed to manage that?

I would rather see no cooldown in BWE3 and see if there’s really anything OP about that. If it turns out no cooldown is OP, then give it 5-10s tops.

My best idea for Gyros in general right now is a permanent Endure Pain buff (no direct damage). Call it Gyro Armor or something. They can still take bleed damage, be CC’d, get conditions, and be killed… it just likely won’t be a spike and they’ll live long enough to at least get the majority of their effects off. If not then buff health, but I think this is the route we should go. I prefer invulnerability with ability to be CC’d only but I don’t see that as realistic. I think Endure Pain buff is the best most realistic option. I really don’t want to see turrets round 2.

Treetoptrickster.4205:

It could be cool if they made the healing from the Medic Gyro scale massively with your missing health. So like, if you were under heavy sustained fire and were low on health for the whole time it was active and pulsing heals, it would be the best heal, but it would be pretty meh if it was healing people who are already pretty well off. That way it would reinforce the ‘what would work now?’ element to the Scrapper by making you save your heal when you really need it. They could also make it the only stun break on heal in the game.

This is interesting. Something like…

Heal self for 4000. AOE heal over time based on player’s amount of health (could be different for each player affecteD). Interval: 1 second. Duration 10s.
—-
20% or less health: 1500
20%-50%: 1000
50%-75%: 700
75% or more: 500.

I like it.

I’m going to provide a little pre BWE3 feedback since we won’t have any environment to test out changes before HOT launches.

Hammer:
Awesome! Great job Irenio, seriously. The hammer looks fun and worth using. For an Engineer having a weapon that doesn’t take a back seat to our utilities is a new concept. I hope that I am not wrong, but I see myself using hammer a lot and not just for the big skills before I switch back to a kit like we all do with rifle/pistols. Kudos.

Traits:
I think these look good overall. There are some meaningful choices to be made, and they really seem to change how your build works depending on which way you go. There are 3 pretty distinct and consistent themes in the traits that you can choose, stability, super speed, or tank. I would have prefered to see something a little more varied than stability and tank, something that you could choose for more damage maybe. Before I get my hands on it to play that’s a minor complaint because I do think the trait line is set up well.

Specific thoughts on some traits:
Minors are okay but I am strongly against the 30s cooldown on the function gyro right now. It’s the change to the profession mechanic (and by far the most niche of all the elite specs IMO) and if we have to revive 2 allies we can only use it on one of them? I really would like to see this play in BWE3 with no cooldown and see how that feels. I believe Decisive Renown should be an Adept or merged with the first minor trait, it is a very niche trait. I am currently buying into the whole functional gyro thing right now (even though we haven’t seen it… -.-) but additional effects on revives should be a choice, I don’t want that to take up a slot for something else that should be baseline instead. Like… Shocking Speed. Maybe just swap the two. OH! Super Speed duration should totally be a minor. Totally. 33% or something. This is the solution Irenio. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Adepts are great, I like the choice here and I like that you’re starting on the path of some consistently themed choices. Aside from the swap between Decisive Renown and Shocking Speed I have no issues with the Adepts.

Masters look great as well Rapid Regeneration and Mass Momentum are some serious competitors. Expert Examination would be great for a tank.

Grandmasters that are meaningful! Big kudos for that Irenio, I feel that some of the elite specs have really dropped the ball on this one but not the Scrapper. I have one thing that I think needs to change here, and it’s a cooldown reduction to the hammer trait. That’s not just because there’s a hammer trait anyways, or that most weapons have them. It’s because we can’t weapon swap and kits are already so invasive to every Engineer build that if we’re going into Scrapper and choosing the GM trait just for the hammer, it should make us much less reliant on kits by letting us use hammer skills more often. That’s my $.02 on the matter. I’ve seen a lot of suggestions to add a cooldown here, but I think there’s a really good reason for it not just “well it’s the hammer trait”. Let us use the hammer and not be forced back into kits.

Gyros:
Okay Irenio I’ve given you a lot of props so far and I’m going to continue to be honest… I’m willing to give the Gyros a fair try in BWE3 but I am really skeptical on the health bar. I feel that nothing has been learned from turrets which is very disappointing. You said in the POI they had large health pools, but judging from the numbers they were taking and how far their health was going down that’s just not true. Start with doubling the health pools, but even then they’re toast in WvW or boss level PvE. Ideally they would be invulnerable and we could test how that looks, and I really would like to try that direction, but with only one BWE to test in I’m not sure you want to do something that drastic. As the next best thing I think they should receive all control effects and conditions but be immune to direct damage, basically Endure Pain. Sure in PvP that’s an advantage to condi users, but it’s not spike damage which is the real issue with turrets and it looks like it will be with these as well. With this approach instead enemies can still CC them, blind them, slow them, even kill them with the damaging conditions, but they won’t be smashed to bits in 1 second from Hundred Blades or something like that. This proposed change may not even need an increase to their health pool depending on how it tested in BWE3. Also recharge should start on skill use! We’re really right back into turret territory with these effective 30-50s cooldowns. Not cool man, not cool.

Medic Gyro. There’s already a ton of feedback about how this skill just isn’t going to work. A utility that pulses a heal every 3 seconds would be great. A heal skill that pulses every 3s is terrible. Up the initial heal to at least 4k, up the pulse to 1 second intervals. Lower pulse to ~500 if necessary. Maybe just turn it into a Troll Unguent like effect in AOE, stronger for us though of course since it’s our actual heal skill. Maybe add retaliation. I like the toolbelt, good job there.

Bulwark Gyro. Honestly provided gyros don’t die instantly to direct damage like turrets this one looks like the best of the bunch. Love the effect, love the toolbelt. From the POI we’re guessing about 12-15k health? That’s not even close to enough even if they could be made immune to direct damage. Let’s say 15k, using it in a party where everyone is taking damage means each player has 3k damage reduced before this thing dies. That doesn’t seem very meaningful to me. That’s a crit of an auto attack.

Blast Gyro. Maybe the worst one. Maybe. We guess that you had Rabid gear in the POI if so I’m willing to at least see the damage this guy does, but it seems incredibly underwhelming. The toolbelt seems boring. I would like this to be our source of “long” Super Speed (I know due to the nature of the effect it can’t be like Swiftness). 3s is what we’re getting from blast and leap finishers through traits plus all the cool stuff those blasts and leaps do. If we have this as a 30s cooldown that only works in bomb radius for our allies with no other effects, I want to see at least 5s here.

Shredder Gyro I will again have to go with the caveat of “If This Thing Doesn’t Die Immediately Like Turrets”… (ITTDDILT might become my new short hand). Even more applicable to this guy than any other Gyro because you’re always dropping him right on the enemy. Lots of people are excited for this guy. If I’m understanding right he does a whirl finisher every 1/2 second? If so then I can see how he’s worth using, because it sure as heck isn’t for the damage… that’s laughable! I’m not even sure why the damage is there at that amount, maybe it can proc our on hit effects? Toolbelt damage looks really bad and cooldown a bit long, these are things I want to try before suggesting anything though.

Purge Gyro Okay so ITTDDILT… this one had me the most excited and honestly you delivered with the condition removal part of it (I was worried for something like 1 removed every 20s). But that’s all it does you say? Exactly! This is not worthy of standing on its own. I don’t really want to see it attached to the Medic Gyro though because then we just have another Healing Turret situation. If the heal with purge gyro capability out healed and out cleansed the turret, everyone uses it. If not, no one uses it. Let’s not go down that road, let’s make this skill stand on its own. I would rather see this little guy buffed. I’m not sure how to be honest. How about a 3s Resistance boon on the Engi if there are no valid targets with conditions when the pulse comes? Still would be underwhelming though. Retaliation? Super Speed!? I don’t know but this guy really needs something. Maybe he feeds you an elixir to cure those conditions, so you can get all the benefits of those traits? Meh. I don’t know this is a tough one. Toolbelt? Meh. It’s alright I guess, I’m not that excited about it.

Sneak Gyro. Alright so yeah you can see the Sneak Gyro when it stealths us. I want to play with it to provide more accurate feedback. It’s a neat idea. I can see it being really balanced because of this, or just not worth using. I’m thinking the place where I’m going to land is that the gyro should not aggro NPCs. I get the whole visible cloak thing for counterplay, and I get we have to stay close for stealth, but I’m not sure I’m going to like getting into combat when I try to run by stuff. The Thief can already SR + blast through any dungeon mobs that people want to skip so it’s not like we’re breaking things there. The toolbelt rocks, good job there.

Thanks Irenio! By and large you’ve delivered on this elite spec. Let’s whip these Gyros into shape so we don’t have to say “yeah but…. the gyros”. Scrapper hammer is darn near perfect and the traits are really fun looking. Can’t wait to play BWE3 and for you to start interacting with us here!

Goosekilla.2796:

Adamantium.3682:

All the stability might be offsetting this? It’s funny we went from one of the worst at accessing stability to having a TON in this spec.

It would be nice if one gyro could break stun, but I would hate for it to be on the explode button (thumper turret all over again) and I also don’t really want one of my awesome fields tied up in a stun break.

Good point, although it isn’t really the same – stunbreak is reactive, stability has to be proactive.

The reasons you mentioned really convince me that Purge Gyro would be the place to put it. Purge doesn’t even have a detonate chain skill (?!), so this would really add something tempting to it to compensate.

It’s true stability are stunbreaks are different, but they achieve the same purpose and I would be okay if the high stability uptime that we can achieve with Scrapper is a trade off for stun breaks. Can’t have it all, and every profession can’t work exactly the same way. If other professions protect themselves with stun breaks and Scrapper uses stability proactively instead, I’m okay with that.

If a gyro does get stunbreak I just don’t want it to be on the explode button. I hate how you have to detonate thumper turret just to break a stun and wait for the huge cooldown after. Like I said I also don’t want a field hiding behind a stunbreak. I would prefer it on Blast Gyro’s super speed toolbelt… but that’s basically Slick Shoes.

I dunno, with BWE3 we’ll have to see what the stability uptime really is before I say gyros need a stun break. Remember Scrapper also gets 1 reflect, 1 block, and 1 evade with hammer. I think Scrapper is covered in the survivability area.

codesherwin.9346:

Rozbuska.5263:

Perfectly Weighted - Unnecessary icd. Sould also reduce hammer recharges.

+1 on this needing to reduce hammer recharge. Removing the ICD doesn’t make this trait too OP either IMO. It’s not like Engineers have three dodges.

As is, I think it’s probably going to lose out to Adaptive Armor more times than not. With at least the cooldown reduction added, I would consider this over AA.

Surprise! A dodge trait with a cooldown!

I’m going to keep saying it until they change it. Dodge traits should never have a cooldown. If you want to blow your endurance to use dodge effects instead of avoiding damage you should be able to make that choice.

EDIT: On further review I see this works on any evade not just dodges. Engi only has the one skill that applies evade, but I can still see how this would quickly become out of control (Dodging Rapid Fire for example). I thought it was on the use of a dodge, not on evade. This should definitely have an ICD.

So technically this is not a “dodge” trait but an “evade” trait. Big difference to me, but I still maintain all “dodge” traits should not have a cooldown!

All the stability might be offsetting this? It’s funny we went from one of the worst at accessing stability to having a TON in this spec.

It would be nice if one gyro could break stun, but I would hate for it to be on the explode button (thumper turret all over again) and I also don’t really want one of my awesome fields tied up in a stun break.

Can you reflect them O_O

I like it, +1. I think something needs to be added to the spray to make it so you haven’t completely given up contributing to the group outside healing. Maybe chilling enemies it hits or something (this could be added to the active effects of 2-5). That’s not a critique of your idea because I think it’s great, just an added suggestion

What’s the point of saying 1 burn stack prepatch was stronger than 1 burn stack now? Besides just trying to prove a point? Burn isn’t even applied as 1 stack now, and on average an Engi will have far more than 1 stack on a target at any given time, so why are we hooked on 1 stack trying to prove a pointless point just for the sake of argument? Burn is effectively more powerful than it was prepatch, by a country mile.

I don’t understand how condis being more powerful now is even up for debate. Just goes to show some people will literally argue about anything.

Gaaroth.2567:

Adamantium.3682:

Well there are quite a lot of unblockable skills out there and ways to get unblockable attacks. I don’t think this skill is going to be as good as we might think, I hope to be wrong.

if someone is fast enough to deplay an ublockable attack, it was fast enough to deploy a cc when we had a breakbar. Fact is, in the latter case, we were punished hard .
Also there are way more CC skills than Unblockable skills, and not every class has them.

That’s not really a fair comparison because the breakbar was basically broken.

I like active blocking, my main is an Engi. The only reason I have a problem with this skill is because of root. Blocking by itself is great, but when you stand still and your enemy has 3 seconds to prepare themselves to roflstomp you then that’s what’s going to happen. Engi blocks get interrupted all the time, so does Guardian shelter. If players know it’s something they need to prepare for, it’s something they will have ready. It’s not like a Rev with a shield will put up a block and the player will be like “whoa a block I had no idea he could do that, let’s see do I have unblockable skills… maybe I do where are they… oh staff! cool I’ll use that— oh he’s done blocking now”. Fingers will be hovering over unblockable skills that’s for sure.

If Roy says the skill would have to be worse without the root then I’ll have to live with the root I guess. If the heal gets nerfed down to ~1k then that really doesn’t do anything and it might as well not be there. If the duration gets nerfed down to s then 1.5s or something that is really short, trust the Static Shield on that one (great skill, just saying the block feels very short). If the cooldown gets nerfed back up to 30s+ then that might be too long, but in all honesty it’s the nerf I would want to see most. I would rather have to time the use of it carefully because of the cooldown and be able to move I think if all the other elements remain the same.

Overall I’m fine with testing it, I just have a bad feeling. I’m not really that concerned but it’s just not my preference. I hope the bad feeling turns out to be stupid and the skill is great. I can’t wait to spend all of an upcoming weekend trying it (and Scrapper!).

I like it, excited to see it in action.

It’s been said a hundred times already, but stomping is likely something that will be a bigger part of PvE. They’ve had it in the past, and now 2 elite spec have skills or mechanics that specifically relate to stomping. I don’t really care either way because to me it’s worth it just for the revive, but stomping could very easily become more prominent in PvE.

Speaking strictly PvE… no more worrying about cleave when someone dies to the cliffside boss. No more worrying about standing still to revive someone at the Lava fractal. I can revive someone in Mai Trin (or at least keep them alive a bit longer) without getting blasted by the cannons. I can spike revive with my gyro/Elixir R/myself all together to revive someone in the cannon death circles, rather than letting them die.

To act as if revive is not a huge part of end game PvE is incorrect IMO and it’s likely only going to get more important as the content gets more difficult (raids). Even the best players go down once in awhile, and the best groups can have those times where you want to revive someone. It will be awesome to continue doing damage while also reviving, or reviving really quickly, or reviving someone in an AOE circle that would have killed us if we tried to help. It remains to be seen how the mechanics work, cooldowns, durations, etc, but it certainly looks like Engis have strongly claimed the spot as best reviver in the game.