Update 5.9.2013: getting better ANet, still way to go!
A Lannister always pays his debts – For everyone else, there’s Mastercard.
S – LB Warrior, Necro
A – Hammer Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, Spirit Ranger
B – Any other Ranger Build (especially Power Builds), Ele (High Risk, mediocre Reward is not satisfying)
0/10/30/30/0
Rabid or Shaman’s amulet
Runes of the Undead
Whatever sigil you like
SB + sw/torch
randomly press buttons
Win.
Juvenile Wolf
Juvenile Jaguar
Juvenile Lynx
Juvenile Junglestalker
Juvenile Riverdrake
My pets dont accept their names and use their old names, so I stopped caring.
Rangers have 1 viable build: spirits.
If you dont use spirit build as a ranger, better reroll another class.
Hey guys!
Is there any spirit weapon build for sPvP?
i’d really like to try it, even if its not the best thing you can build!
If the leaked patchnotes were true (using conditional here so the thread doesn’t get closed), this would be the build I wanted to try first: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Fg-V;1wEFx-d2NDV-0;9V4E;19TT;01;059B59A;4W-F7;2LNW4LNW46Bo
for those of you who don’t know, here are the (totally not official and not-confirmed-at-all patch notes, that are most likely in no way representing what is actually going to happen in the next balance patch) patchnotes: http://pastebin.com/sXHq6fZt
Keep these fictional changes in mind for discussing this build.
Please also keep in mind, that these changes are in no way actual changes and this is more like a theorycrafting thread.
Any suggestions?
Skill: Camouflage
The ranger gains stealth for 5 seconds.
The next attack deals 50% more damage.
breaks if he moves.
there is something definetly wrong in sour thought process…
crafting should be the same ofc, since that has nothing to do with it.
And, just to remind you: spvp forum → no crafting
Doesnt apply for all classes / all builds. Some people use utility sigils. This is not pve were you have only 1 viable solution
Thanks Roy! (15 characters)
We are aware of this and are taking steps to mitigate this type of play.
Maybe start by lowering the rankpoints needed to get to the next rank.
As someone who is working till the evening it took me a week to get from lvl 29 to 30.
This is a bad joke!
I also considered grinding, but it was not fun.
You should worry about people feeling the need to grind their rank up in a no-fun way.
You should worry because it shows that there is something missing people want.
As I now realized that it would take several years for me to reach max rank to get cultural armor (which I already have in PvE for half a year) I stopped caring at all for my rank.
TL;DR:
People grinding for Rank points is no issue – the issue is that people HAVE to grind for Rank points and having nothing to achieve in sPvP.
Wasn’t it like that in one of the BWE’s ?
Not sure…
But IMHO difficulties in programming is no valid argument. I understand if it takes longer, I even understand if it takes several months of programming and testing until ir works as intended.
What I don’t understand is no trying.
Two handed weapons should be able to hold 2 Sigils.
Right now, people using 2 One handed Weapons have a great advantage other the others.
I don’t fear any (negative) balancing issues, since the combination is already possible by using 2 onehanded weapons.
Posts like this is the reason why ANET refuses to give rangers more control
made my day
And unfortunately sad but true…
IMHO: “New Players can’t handle more pet controll” is wrong in several points (to sum it up)
I’d like to read a devs response to my arguments to get a real discussion starting.
In my opinion the devs didn’t think this through so there is still discussions needed.
i don’t think you have played ranger in the right way. I don’t think you have played ranger with the right build… i don’t even think you have player ranger as a ranger but as a guardia and/or warrior… ranger isn’t a warrior nor a guardian but can kill both ^^
yeeeeaaaaah… no.
Ofc, there are alos inferior players you can beat easily as a power ranger, but anybody who knows what hes doing will easily counter your weaknesses.
Since Beta I almost only played my Ranger in sPvP.
No Spirit or BM nobrainer builds, mostly Powerbuilds and sometimes trapper or rampager builds.
Starting with BWE3 Ranger recieved nerf over nerf, resulting in a class that is cornered into 1 (!!!) viale Build – Spiritranger.
This build is so braindead easy, that it’s no fun (for me) to play it.
As other builds are not viable at all and in most cases can’t stand it’s ground in 1v1 situations, Ranger became very unattractive for me.
Last Weekend I finally tryed my Warrior, Guardian and Mesmer in tPvP and it was a real joy.
Not only are the capable of defending themselves while dealing tons of damage themselves, they also have several builds that are actually viable.
As a Guardian I played Bunker and GS-Power builds.
As a Warrior I played Hammer/Mace+Shield CC or Longbow Condi or GS/Mase+Shield burst.
As a Mesmer I played Phantasm and Shatterbuilds.
All of these classes offered diversity and highly effecive builds. The classmechanics are working as intended without any exception.
Even the freaking Phantasms of the Mesmer not only hit properly, but also dished out crazy amounts of damage.
In comparison with Ranger:
The Bad:
1) Buggy Pet
2) Low direct Damage (even lower than other Power builds, -> Mesmer Warrior Guardian)
3) Low Pet Damage
4) Horrible survivability (if not BM or Spirit Ranger, but as I said I dont like those)
The Good:
1) Skills look cool!
2) You can give your Pets a name!
All I want to say:
Ranger is in no way a bad sPvP class, since Spirit Rangers are highly effective and easy to learn while offering huge group support.
For those who don’t like that particular build: there is nothing a Ranger can offer in sPvP.
ANet nerfed the Ranger to a Point, where we are cornerd into 1 build.
This is not fun, build diversity is.
The classes I tried this weekend were very fun to play, but most fun was trying different build and having a chance and a purpose in every single match I played.
I didn’t “rock hard” or “facerolled”, but I played decently and had fun.
Something I am missing for sPvP Rangers since the game released.
So my question to ANet is:
As you realized that Pets did to much damage and a BM nerf was needed, why didn’t you fix or buff other builds in the same turn?
Didn’t you realize the effect the changes had on the Ranger?
PS: PvE Ranger still untouchable, best class ever. A lot if fun there.
PPS: LB Ranger in WvW a good amount of fun too, no complaints here either
Give it a try ANet
I won’t go as far as the OP, but there is no question in my mind that the premise of it being too much micromanagement for a player to handle, giving them 2 additional keys/commands to worry about, is laughable. It is as laughable as when someone from ANet responded to the reports of the Temple map coming up more often than the others by flippantly saying “Sounds like it’s… random.”, and then after more people posted, saying “Alright, after more people posted that they were having this same issue, I checked in with the team and they let me know that there is a bug causing Temple to pop more than other maps.”
In other words, we are the people playing this game. We are the ones who are non-devs, who have the experience of players, the knowledge level of players and the capabilities of players…if we are saying something is necessary, if we are saying something is manageable, then to without any basis in fact refute that is not only wrong but offensive. Some people do not know what they are talking about, and sometimes these people can work for ANet. They are people too, and have the same failings we all do. No-one is perfect, omniscient or infallible.
BUT, this is not a position from which to make either vague comments or definitive statements. The idea that adding 2 additional commands would overwhelm enough people to outweigh the benefit is impossible to accept as anything but disingenuous. Especially when you consider this could be optional. We need to dispense with this fallacy once and for all.
Next absurdity is that this change is not necessary. There is a statement by the same dev who put forth this reason against making the change, saying that invisible internal cooldowns are a negative thing – I am paraphrasing, but if needed I can and will listen to the casts and find the video in question so people can hear it for themselves. Invisible cooldowns are one of the very reasons why having direct control over these 2 additional pet abilities is necessary, because without it, having appropriate use of the 1 pet skill we are supposed to have direct control over control over is quite simply impossible. Any ranger will tell you that sometimes when they press F2 to execute their pet skill, that it fails due to this ICD. This is not disputable.
This class is full of skills which are conditional, where getting full value is not assured – even though the classes are balanced against one another on the assumption that this is not the case.
For example, in addition to the one mentioned above, you have powers like the Axe 1 skill, the auto-attack Ricochet. This skill will cause the throw axe to hit a total of 3 targets by bouncing between them. It will hit a 1st, and if a 2nd is in range, bounce to that, and if a 3rd is in range, bounce to that, doing it’s damage amount 3 times. If there are only 2 targets, it nicely will bounce back to the 1st target after hitting the second, so you still get the intended 3 hits of the listed damage.
However, if there is only 1 target…you get only 1 hit. No additional damage in compensation, no additional effects…you simply do not get full value.
The same is true for the many or skills or traits which are balanced for the status or location of the pet – that is, whether it is alive or not, or in range. This is something which is not always assured, and depends on a level of control over the pet which we neither have nor can be reasonably expected to micromanage. In those circumstances where the pet does not meet the needed requirements, we do not get full value.
It is not only that we cannot control the pet’s 2nd and 3rd skill, but that we cannot use the 1st, the F2 skill, with a 100% success rate, BECAUSE we don’t control the other powers, their ICDs and thus when the F2 power is even valid to be used. Not only that, but we cannot SEE when this cooldown is making the F2 power impossible to use, because the cooldown or skill timers are invisible. There is no way anyone could say this is not punitive with a straight face. Not without being called a liar.
This issue is an excellent example of the fallibility of human beings and the fallacies they will both allow themselves to believe and then attempt to make others believe as well. This is not a question of programming or limitations of game mechanics…anyone who knows anything about either can say that with high confidence…but rather similar to the meaningless and insulting “Sounds like it’s… random.” statement, it is an opinion expressed with no bearing in reason or fact whatsoever.
2 + 2 = 4, no matter how much someone tries to tell you the contrary….every ranger knows what this mechanic means to their gameplay, how much it hurts them, and no amount of hand-waving is going to convince any of them otherwise.
You deserve an award. Couldnt say it any better.
The devs just ignore the simple autocast functionality implemented since day one.
Simply put all pet abilites on “autocast” by default so new players dont have to take care of that.
For those who do want to controll it, deactivating autocast solves the problem.
Saying “new players cant handle this” is just a very bad excuse or not thought through completely.
By adding this option there IS NOTHING MORE TO HANDLE FOR NEW PLAYERS.
But as Ranger is competely broken right now anyways, why even discuss this..
(Power builds suck kittenly spirit is viable but boring, BM builds are impossible due to pet controll and pet AI)
hey guys!
I am about to swap my MF gear to something usefull now.
I have a full Zerker set for dungeons already and I really want to try some WvW fun.
What is the best gear to go Zerkbreaking?
Clerics? Soldiers? something else?
1. Remove the root from Sword 1, keep the leap
Like the leap a lot, but I really dont like the root :-/ the root is keeping you from dodging when you need it (you literally can’t dodge!) and prohibits effective flanking in sPvP. Therefore, you can’t use your skill as a player to outplay your enemies.
2. Longbow Changes
1) Combine Piercing Arrows with Quick Draw in Skirmishing.
New Marksmanship Master Trait: Aimed Shot – “Opening Strike deals an additional 15% damage”
Reasoon: This allows to effectively use the Long Bow in small scale fights and adds some well needed damage to it. This synergizes with remorseless and gives Rangers another tactical possibility.
3. Make Pet F2 icon Display ICD
I’m fine with that.
4. Increase the Damage of Lighting Reflexes
Compare it to Lightning Flash of eles, this skill should definetly hurt more.
5. Fix Pet attack behavior or shift more damage to the Ranger
With the pet not being able to land hits in GW2’s fast paced combat, the pet is the main reason for low power damage of the ranger.
Fix: if a pet starts its attack in range of 600 Units, it’s actuall attackrange should be 900. (random number, dont know the true values)
Reason: this would allow the pet to finish it’s attack if the enemy is simply walking away.
I am very interested in how you farm glory to get rank 0 → 50 in one day.
I am 29 currently and I really want some more skins.
Please tell me?
@Aeri:
The worst part of being a ranger in tpvp/spvp is how boring it is atm. I would say, that even well-played BM was more thrilling than this. So … you said you were running shouts and/or BM .. is there any way I could persuade you into sharing your builds and thoughts on them?
kind regards
Poxxia
Sry to disappoint you, but I only played Power and Spiritrangers in tPvP.
Spiritrangers (as said above) is to easy and takes almost no efford to stand against 2-3 enemies for a good amount of time.
Powerrangers are able to dish out a good amount of damage while sacrificing their survivability to a point where you are dead as soon as the enemy is able to land a stun or get near you.
He says in the beginning, that he uses another build for PvP :-/
That only applies for those who still dont get that we have ranged pets to be used in Zergfights.
-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.
This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.
-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.
-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.
-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.
Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.
Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.
This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.
Thanks for the explanation, and I (as a Ranger) completely agree with everything you guys did this patch.
Spirit build was just a nobrainer and you added some cd management to it.
May I suggest
1) spirits behaving like Mesmers Phantasms when shattered, so they walk to their target first when activating them?
or
2) spirits active being ground targeted?
This would add more functionality to the Spirit actives while raising the skill level.
Spirit actives right now are just spammable and not to controll, so you just enter the biggest fight you see and use what’s not on cd.
I wouldn’t event mind if you would raise the active CD in addition to above suggestions.
IMHO: the less % of our damage a pet deals, the better.
Dear Jonathan Sharp
While I do appreciate the Devs work I feel that you forgot about build diversity. Completely.
Very few classes have more than 1 or 2 viable builds.
Rangers have 1 build that (while a bit OP and now tuned down, fair enough) is very low risk, very easy to play, great success (and imho: boring).
I’d like to play my class AS I WANT and not what the meta dictates.
Ofc I know I can’t run 10/10/10/10/10, but the complete lack of build diversity is frustrating. (talking about PvP here!)
For example Power Rangers are competely useless in tPvP content.
To be more precice: Power Builds are bad in general in PvP content (while great in PvE and a lot of fun there!)
I really would like to invite you to join some discussions on the ranger forums to adress some of these frustrating issues.
I know you are busy and I get that there might be more important stuff for you to do than chatting with us, but on the other hand there is a huge demand to discuss this issue.
Regards,
Aeri
@ the other complainers:
I don’t think that “delete Rangers” is somewhere near a solution.
People are still enjoing rangers, spirit build is still effective and fun (actually a bit more since now it requires you to manage your spirit cooldowns).
Constantly whining about any change is not getting us anywhere, so better come up with some solutions and give your statements some more content than “you did a kittenty job”. That’s unfair und not helpfull.
(edited by Aeri.5738)
So, for a more or less beginner (player tPvP and WvW a lot with warrior and ranger, so I actually know what I’m doing) what build would you recommend for learning the class?
I’ve been running Scepter Dagger this evening and it was so much fun in sPvP – Can’t wait to try it in tPvP.
Any other ideas?
what build does he use?
didn’t play my ele for a long time and I’d like to start some sPvP :-/
2:50 – just lol
thats crap.
why would a ranger have to farm more equipement than any other class?
pet should never get it’s own equipment and if the devs know what they are doing this will gladly never come.
ANet is being very ignorant about our Pet complaints.
I agree with them nerfing the damage since that was just OP, but they should have adressed some serious bugs at the same time.
(would also decrease the amount of unnecessary whining in the forums…)
1) ANet explains, that advanced pet controll is to confusing for new players.
Solution: Make it an option in the Pet menu, Introduce it at level 30. (I seriously don’t see ANY valuable counter argument to this solution)
2) ANet didn’t fix the pets horrible melee hit ratio.
Solution: Increase pets melee attack range a little. Make pets get closer to the target than the actuall attack range to land a hit.
Example: pet melee range: 300, pet gets 100 units closer to attack (random numbers used here).
This will allow the pet to hit moving targets easier than before.
(People suggested that Pets should be able to attack while moving, but since no NPC can actually do that, this seems to be a major AI issue. My workaround should increase the Pets number of hits drastically in a very easy way)
Actually, I just wanted to open a similar thread just now.
I even bothered to get an image to support my claim ^^
I dont think condi builds would suffer as they usw pets mainly for utility. The Main damage Coles from the rangers conditions.
If then still needed, condi builds can geht a balance update too
Dear good people of Tyria!
As you all remember the outraging festivities of last year that ende up with sir Logan Thackeray farting at the dinner table, I have to make an announcement. It wasn’t Logan, it was me.
Have a good evening
Your posts are in no way constructive, because you only complain with a made up thesis without supportin it with arguments.
A constructive post would at least contain a few points of how the situation can be fixed.
If I’d some up the content of your posts it would be “rangers suck, I quit” <- not constructive.
To make youself a usefull addition to our community, you could start by using the edit button and then put some arguments behind your statements so there is actually something to discuss.
(edited by Aeri.5738)
You re the only one here who really understands the point..I’ ve spent tons of gold too finding a balance but without success..Once beastmastery build was nice..but they nerfed it..shortbow was nice..but they nerfed it..= ranger inferior to any other class
:)
I assume you are speaking about me.
Yeah, I today decided to re role. I love using conditions so am working on a necro but lvling is sooooo boring. I did try to lvl a thief once before because I got soo mad in wvw but I got bored of that after I got to lvl 28.
‘Sigh’
I don’t even like any of the other professions :/ they don’t feel right, but they are soooo powerful compared to Ranger that I think I’ll just have to be bored while lvling for the next few days….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xKcDOIgEGLU&t=9
^^^ A Necro just look at the amount of conditions!!! :O
Eh mate I’ m happy that at least you had the will to reroll another class and play it..whereas me that I liked only ranger..well I think I’ ll quit
You said that 20 Days ago already.
Don’t think constructive feedback is one of your strengths…
“It’ s time to quit or if I change my mind to level up a thief or a mesmer which are really competitive class.” – 14 Days ago
“Well Maybe It’ s just me but I m going to quit becouse seriously I loved so much playing with pets and now it’ s simply impossible..” – 19 Days ago
the OP complained about people running out, so this is the solution.
OFC there is a cd, still spamming the button makes the pet fail its command.
spamming your pet skills is in fact a bad idea. you might interrupt their abilities and literally cripple them.
when using an f2 make sure your pet is in range already, otherwise it has to walk a great distance before actually doing anything.
after pressing f2, leave your pet be for a few seconds to not cancle the ability
Aeri you make me laugh ah ah i wasn t interested in your build..just for the words you say i realise you re a medium ranger Always stuck in mediocrity ^^. Have you ever tried what was beastmastery build before the nerf?^ You’ re the only one here who likes the changement they have done lol
You lack in argumentation – and the edit button seems broken for you.
I prefer being stuck in “mediocrity” to getting beating by everything.
I don’t know where your hatred comes from, but if it’s for me not agreeing with your point (still lacking arguments to back up your thesis) than I’d suggest getting used to it.
Until you deliver some acceptable arguments, there is no room for anything else than thinking that you are simply a pug ranger.
As you might see by reading my post again, I didn’t suggest a full BM build. It’s the well known and highly effective Spirit condi bunker.
Go try it, you might actually learn something by doing so.
you asked for builds, I delivered. All of them are viable and fun to play.
If you dont want to try what you asked for, don’t complain any further.
You are constantly complaining instead of enjoying.
if you really hate ranger so much, for god sake pick something else and leave us enjoy our class.
(edited by Aeri.5738)
Well tell us you re fabolous build then
Try (depending on the enemy class)
30/30/10 (30/20/20 is also nice, but harder to survive) Power Build against warriors and other less mobile classes
0/30/30/10 trapper against Mesmers, Minionmancers, Spiritrangers
0/0/30/30/10 (or 20/30/20 for more BM power) spirit build against heavy bursters and evasive enemies to outsustain them
Just named 3, mostly a match is decided by skill, not the build.
There might be a major l2p issue if you have a hard time beating anything as a Ranger. Withour wanting to be insulting, it might be a very good idea to pick an easier class.
(edited by Aeri.5738)
@Pegaasus: Nopes, it’s just seems a lot easier to constantly complain instead of adapting.
I rock with what I have, I don’t need to QQ.
Not saying everything is perfect, there IS room for improvement.
But unlike you, I don’t complain 24/7 about it.
I checked your forum history, there is not much else in there.
Ranger is in no way “bad”, we have some good builds and people start complaining about them already.
We may not be a top tPvP class, but we are most certainly not useless.
In addition, I don’t understand how your post helps the OP with his problem.
For a trapper it’s essencial to have CC for traps to gain maximum effectiveness.
Building a trap build without any is like having a full zerker condibuild.
Once again: get CC Pet’s, sacrifice 1 damage trap for a CC trap / utility and utilize the weaponsets you are given.
How about you use some utility pets to make people sit in it?
try spiders, canines, even muddy terrain or frost trap.
dont complain about lack of CC if you just pick damage utilities/Pets.
What is the point of this topic?
The statement in the title is just wrong + you see many rangers roaming all day.
I also dont get your second post complaining about mods closing unconstructive topics.
Imho, this topic should be next on their list.
As you said, this is mainly LB changes and only secondary effecting the power build issues.
While weapon skills ARE important for this, it’s not the core of the problem.
we dont want to buff Rangers Power in general, just the Power focused builds.
Buy buffing weapons in general you dont accomplish this goal.
I also disagree on the “no burst no AE” complain.
GS has a wide cleaving attack, Barrage IS AE, GS2 and LB2 are high burst skills, GS5 opens up pet burst. Sword 1 + QZ is pretty kitten bursty etc. etc.
We have the mechanics needed, and Imho all we lack is some power behind our blows.
If we were to add traits buffing certain skills in the power or skirmishing lines, that would be a competely different story.
PS: barrage as a utility skill is bad. competely. Watch a Sword/dagger Ranger shoot arrows from the sky…
Frost trap, muddy terain? as a trapper you want to deal damage!
Swap either muddy terrain or frost trap for the fire trap.
I’d pick healing spring for some much needed Condi removal (empathatic bond on it’s own is not enough since the time will come where you want to remove conditions on demand)
The Problem:
Power Builds lack the Power to be usefull in sPvP content.
The problem is, that the Pet makes up ~40% of our damage (if able to hit, other topic).
Therefore. Power scales a lot worse than on other classes, so Rangers dont deal the same amount of damage + the Pets damage ( would be like 140% of what other clases with Powerbuilds could do)
Somehow, ANet didn’t see this Problem with Condition damage. Because of that, we are cornered into Tanky Condition based builds.
Solution
1) Nerf Pets, Buff BM traits
OMG, he said nerf pets! Stupid Pug!
Yes, I did. Here is why:
1.1) If we nerf pets in general a little further, we have room to buff the BM traitlines.
Double the Attributes gained by invesing into BM, add usefull grand traits, etc.
Let’s say if you nerf the pet 50%, the BM traits should get it back to 100% with 30 Points spend.
1.2) Move the Pet Traits of other trait lines to the BM tree, merge some traits, remove useless traits.
This will take some Pet Power of other builds and make the BM tree more viable at the same time. Also, by going full Power full BM you can’t make an uber-pet while yourself hitting like a truck aswell.
1.3) Increase the power scaling for Weapons
Here finally comes the Power Buffing part.
Since we transfered Pet power from base stats to BM traits, there is room for buffing power builds.
An untraited pet now is an utility, like it should be on a Powerbuild.
This makes room for exotic pets to be used aswell.
The general DPS should not be bigger than before these changes, the difference is just that the Ranger now deals 80-90% of the damage.
This will make the Power Ranger in sPvP alot more viable while keeping the same overall damage. The ability to controll the whole damage and dont let the miserable Pet AI decide win or defeat finally brings Ranger Power to the level of condi-bunkers (in terms of viability)
If you want increased Power, tuning down pets is a must have.
Just increasing Power would lead to extreme damage spikes once a pet actually hits.
We don’t want that. We want to be viable, but balanced.
For those concerned about BM Bunker: as explained above: nothing changes.
The Pet nerf gets compensated 100% by buffing the BM tree.
Opinions?
And keep in mind:
if you don’t agree, say why.
Keep the discussion clean and try to be as constructive as possible.
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