You can play on Eotm all day long but get away from my server. k thx bye
I hope you are aware on how many guardians run staff in WvW…..
In addition you get points for killing dolyaks and sentries. So there are indeed other sources for the war score. Before PPK enabled it was around 30% points not from tick.
I don’t know the current share but I would guess it will be around 40%.
I personally don’t think that eliminating all forms of territorial scoring in WvW is possible.
But I have heard quite a few comments about ditching it and I’m curious what you would replace it with.
Points per Cap may eliminate the disproportionate advantage of off hours capping, but doesn’t change the fact that those that like to PvD will still have the advantage. The score difference may not be as pronounce but the advantage would be.
Dumping for PPK doesn’t work as PPK is a function of activity not skill. So the more active servers will simply have more kills.
Using KDR doesn’t work either as it really doesn’t scale and will generally encourage score oriented forces to take positions where they can get the most defensive advantage (i.e bunker/siege up.)
Those are the three that I have considered, what are your thoughts?
PPT is fine. Just give points for kills. Something like 0.5 points per kill. This way in NA servers you won’t be finding fights-tier servers in 2-4 and tier 1 refusing to come out of their keeps. The current system encourages paying EU/Asia players to come onto NA servers and being PvE-centric. This of course is the complete opposite of what people think when they think WvWvW.
There is already Points per kill (PPK) enabled in case you haven’t noticed.
Have not noticed because that’s simply not true. The only server points you get are from holding PvE objectives at the end of the countdown timer.
“Points per Kill
Each enemy player killed in WvW now grants 1 point of War Score to your team.
This change was made in order to allow players who focus primarily on killing enemy players to contribute more to the team’s overall success.
Points are awarded for kills and stomps equally.
Any team who has tagged the kill will get a point. For example, if the red and blue teams have both tagged a green player, and the green player dies, both the red team and the blue team will get 1 point."
From the patch notes Jan 26
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/January_2016
You can also see it ticking if there is a large battle.
I personally don’t think that eliminating all forms of territorial scoring in WvW is possible.
But I have heard quite a few comments about ditching it and I’m curious what you would replace it with.
Points per Cap may eliminate the disproportionate advantage of off hours capping, but doesn’t change the fact that those that like to PvD will still have the advantage. The score difference may not be as pronounce but the advantage would be.
Dumping for PPK doesn’t work as PPK is a function of activity not skill. So the more active servers will simply have more kills.
Using KDR doesn’t work either as it really doesn’t scale and will generally encourage score oriented forces to take positions where they can get the most defensive advantage (i.e bunker/siege up.)
Those are the three that I have considered, what are your thoughts?
PPT is fine. Just give points for kills. Something like 0.5 points per kill. This way in NA servers you won’t be finding fights-tier servers in 2-4 and tier 1 refusing to come out of their keeps. The current system encourages paying EU/Asia players to come onto NA servers and being PvE-centric. This of course is the complete opposite of what people think when they think WvWvW.
There is already Points per kill (PPK) enabled in case you haven’t noticed.
+1 for friday 1800 UTC
possible blob fix -
when a commander throws up a tag, for every 20 people around him within a 2,000 foot radius, everyone gets -10 percent defense/offense penalty. or something along that line. If he meets an equal sized team – the match is balanced – if he meets a smaller team, the encounter is scaled :p – the penalty should stay for 15 minutes to prevent commanders from trying to get slick and turning off the tag before a kill. And capturing camps would be as hard as a level 50 fractal with high penalties. No more steamrolling.
the excuse would be a larger army costs more to maintain – so soldiers take a hit in armor quality :p
the math should amount to giving the smaller team a chance to kill off the larger zerg by simply being scaled – as more of the excess dies off, the power in the match rebalances itself ….so lets say it’s 20 vs 100, the 100 have -50% defense / offense, by the time the 20 kill off most of the big zerg, the remaining 20 are equally powerful as the opposing team – making it an even match.
would be funny if nothing else – swatting blobs down to size like flies lol
Those blobs are the majority. If you want even more empy maps keep coming with those good ideas.
Don’t kitten into someones sandbox.
base siege damage is OK in my eyes but it’s scaling with condition damage isn’t.
Buffs and debuffs on different play styles is an absolut no-go. Do not kitten into someone else sandbox imho. Those 100 people blobbing each other like it that way as much as roamers like to roam or duelers like to duel or, or, or….
SM lord is just lame to kill, so much hp when you are a zerge 50+ takes like forever…
Dynamic scaling. The more players around the Lord, the more HP he has. Don’t take a 50 man zerg to kill the lord. Also, if you can’t do it fast, your builds/equipment are just wrong.
WvW lords are scaling with every player on grid. Even the defender.
Try a 3-way fight with Iron Guards Improvement slotted.
It was actualy fun to kill Henry (or whatever your server named that Vet Ice Wurm north of bay on alpine). I never bothered for vets on the desert border though.
Our server system isn’t perfect but imho still the best we can get. The focus should be on an engaging and rewarding game play and the maps will fill up again.
The server system is incredibly old school thinking and leads to stale matches, horrendous amounts of PvD, night capping and huge population imbalances. Even the way a player lands on a server is completely arbitrary. It is a design that was required before multi-server scaling was brought into MMOs.
That alliance system is stillborn from the start. Instead of servers you would get the “nightcap alliance”, “trolling every GvG alliance”, “farm nubs alliance”, etc….
Depends on how the system is structured. In a design I support, guilds can align and declare war on each other. At reset, the matching system would pair guilds together that are friendly against guilds that aren’t but the only guarantee is that players in the same guild will be on the same side. The matching system would take into consideration typical play hours, relative guild strength, previous matchups, etc. Players that are effectively non-aligned (mercenaries) would be assigned into matches to even them out.
The matching system will be responsible for creating relatively even matches that change weekly. At the end of each week, guilds would be ranked based on how well they did in a variety of categories and receive WvW guild awards this way rather than the currently PvE crafted method. Players would also be rewarded based on how well they did in various categories such as Player Kills, various Defense/Offense, Escorts, etc. The more a player does the more they and the guild they play for get rewarded.
And you would lose at least 50% of the WvW player base. That system is anonymous and exactly like EotM. It would degenerate even more into zerging.
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story…
…is not happening. That claim is a complete fabrication.
Anet has 300+ employees – 5 working on raids – the rest on other things.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
Blizzard has a well know word when a game director wants something else then raid content: “that will cost us a raid wing”.
You might think that, Aezyr, but I’m betting that people would spread out as otherwise there’s nobody to fight. Most of us have moved on from ppt; it’s not 2013 anymore. We want to fight, and if… say… all of the OCX lumped into one alliance, they would be PvDooring, and aint nobody find that fun.
We know a fix to population imbalance is coming. While I think megaserver or alliances would maybe fix it, I’m not sure that’s it. It very well could be the merging of some servers, or at least a reduction to that all of the folks who want to WvW can be where this is actually possible.
If you’ve got, say, 10 or 12 servers in NA (for example; don’t get all huffy, EU!) full of active WvW players, that really does make it possible — in theory — to have different and interesting matches. It would need a glicko scrubbing, because holy crap the log jam there is worse than rush hour on I-90.
Our server has a realy good community (and not realy a histoy in ppt btw…) and we know that about 50% of our players arn’t organized in our guilds (including our community guild).
A guild alliance system will bar out even more players or is shuffling them randomly into a matchup were they don’t know anyone. No TS, no server website, no identity leads to no community for half of those playing WvW.
What we need is more players not less.
A Guild Alliance system addresses the issues presented. There is a great article about this here:
I don’t fully agree with their concept but this system would be far better than Megaserver or the current server system.
That alliance system is stillborn from the start. Instead of servers you would get the “nightcap alliance”, “trolling every GvG alliance”, “farm nubs alliance”, etc….
Our server system isn’t perfect but imho still the best we can get. The focus should be on an engaging and rewarding game play and the maps will fill up again.
The video is by Fevir, right?
That was an awful video by that guy lol. " Im going to put aside made up numbers and facts and instead tell you stories that you can relate too" great way to explain why raids were bad by aiming for a like mind bias XDDDD
Raids are great for mmos ( coming from a player thats never played wow).
They provide instanced difficulty for players that wish for harder content- I don’t know about thest rest of you but I enjoy playing game on hard/extreme difficulty on first playthrough…..its a total waste of a game to play on very easy mode.
Becuase its instanced it does not force the rest of the population to do the content – don’t want to do it…..then don’t do it ( plenty of players who have never pvp/wvw). You can run around silverwaste farming your hearts out.
Anet has carebeared too much for the casual players in order to prevent hurting of their feels. Any time this community meets ANY sort of resistance at least 90% of the players will fold and fall out look at marionette, tirple trouble, even teq after its update and before strategy was devised by specific guilds.
Biggest complaints against raids:
time consuming – because many players are spending 4+ hours mindlessly farming 30 mins setup is unacceptable >_>
Gear focused content – unrealistic fear that future content will require raid gear …..regular pve content has still yet to reach ascended gear requirement for starters, and two rewards are mostly going to be comsetic if you are new to the gw scene aka 0 effect on stats
You forgot WvW game mode and players. We do require PvE gear.
I’m mainly playing WvW and that game mode relays on PvE gear. Out of that perspective I think it is bad for my game play because it will lock gear behind a game mode I’m not doing.
Raids always start the gear tread mill and that is simply bad for any MMO.
Deserted borders don’t need a change….they need to get deleted period.
imo, this thread is a good example of why wvw needs to be mega-servered.
the pride should be in how well a guild performs, the elephant in the room on this thread is the matches are imbalanced yet people still take the score serious…to the extent of asking others to avoid playing at certain hours. seriously ? that’s a pve mindset, a pvp mindset would focus on the biggest guilds in opposing servers and take them down 1 by 1 to show them how irrelevant the score is.
I love my server in this scenario, no matter how good or bad the odds are, they fight with everything they have. we always end up higher than our tier can handle, so we are usually outnumbered in our matches, but everyone seems to enjoy that lol!! – if we had the numbers, we’d rule the ladder. Our whole server acts like one large pug guild…amazes me sometimes to watch them at work. these days you don’t see as many tags go up, but there’s always spontaneous action in a very cell structured way. it’s like everyone is a solo roamer, then suddenly they become a zerg at random, then go roamers again…never a dull moment in darkhaven – land of the casual yet fiercely hardcore mercenaries!
Stay the kitten away from megaservers. We already have a prime example of how it will fail: Edge of the Mists.
Regarding the fingerpointing at Baruch Bay: Everyone should just read out the match-up reports from the top 4 servers and you can clearly see that all four have their time of the day were they make their points.
Tbh I’m realy glad that those 3-4 servers have found each other and imo anet should just lock them in an eternal national server tier so the rest of the ladder has a little bit more fun.
I don’t even know there are people that actually care about the scores in wvw.
Score itself is indeed pointless for many but it decides which servers you going to fight in the future and so it becomes a factor.
I play on Gandara. About a year or so ago WvW was pretty good with Gandara. We had a medium to high population. Most nights every borderland had an active commander and day / nights you could still find active groups on the home border and eb. Now sadly our population has dropped and finding a decent fight has become extremely hard. The past 3 weeks we’ve been set against SFR who just end up dogpiling us because they outnumber us so heavily. This isn’t fun for the people being dogpiled, and I can’t imagine its much fun for SFR either. I remember dogpiling some low pop servers back in Gandara’s more active days. It felt so empty. We spent more time dps’ing doors than fighting.
Population disparity is a huge problem in WvW, but I have the solution!!!
Step 1: For 2 weeks ArenaNet make server transfers FREE.
Step 2: Players can only enter a WvW map if their server has <10 players more than the opposing servers have on the map.
Step 3: Have free transfer windows at the start of each WvW season.This would obviously make it extremely difficult for players on high population servers to join WvW when fighting medium or low population servers. However, with free transfers these players can easily move to lower population servers for guaranteed access to WvW.
I am sure within 2 weeks the player base will have transferred to even out the active WvW players across the servers. Then we’d have competitive battles every match up & little to no dogpiling.
Gandara wants another free transfer wave like before season 2?
@ your solutions: Don’t fight the symptoms (low pop), make Wvw again a fun and viable game mode.
Thanks for your initiative but in case you haven’t noticed the PPK API is bugged atm:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/WvWvW-API/first#post5962863
Combine pirate ship meta with boon sharing and you have your space ship meta :p
This is a funny thread. I do not remember anyone ever complaining about staff being OP.
I think it depends a bit on the game mode. Making skills/effects unblockable isn’t healthy in WvW. I’m hitting 4k – 5k (crit.) vs. melee on staff #4 there. Scale that with the number of necros, add in a well spike (unblockable) and Rev’s spamming CoR and you end up in your pirate ship.
It surprising how versatile the build is, from larger zergs, to small group fights, to even 1v1s. I had been distraught about the state of guardians (I have 2, including my main) but this has perked me up a bit.
Guardians/DH went extinct in the PvP Pro League season 1, and looking to the nerfs in damage and cc over the traps since the jan 26th patch the future looks dire for that class in that part of the game.
Taking in consideration that the nerfs on the amulets in PvP had 0 effects over the tankiness of Tempest, Chronos and Scrappers in WvW I’m surprised about people having problems against DH in WvW…
Because you don’t have 10 necros dropping wells on those that got caged into your LB #5? There are “little” differences between pvp and wvw….
People get frustrated that all their efforts to keep ppt up, upgrade and defend etc, goes all to waste during off hours because an enemy server can ktrain and paper everything and easily tick over 400 with little effort. It turns people away from playing for ppt and focus just on fights, which will create friction in a server, and can sometimes lead to server falls/exodus’
Personally I find ppt meaningless and a waste of time, unless your trying to stay in a tier. I didnt always feel this way, but things like nightcapping killed any desire I had to play for ppt. Now that doesnt mean I blame people who play in other timezones, thats simply ridiculous, they dont deserve any blame for logging in to play, its not their fault that their is little competition from the opposing servers.
The problem lies more with the scoring system. Why is capping/holding a fully upgraded or a paper objective worth the same in points? It makes no sense, more effort should bring about more reward for your server. They did a good thing by permanently implementing PPK, but the effect is not enough enough. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the scoring system.
For example a keep, regardless of upgrades contributes 25 points to the tick.
What if, just as an example it were changed to:
t1-5points
t2-15points
t3-25 pointsAnd capturing a keep would give an immediate point bonus to the server, depending on the keeps upgrade tier.
So just an example, but anyways, if the scoring system were more balanced and actually rewarded effort, it would make things more fair for people across timezones.
The nightcapping server would simply upgrade your towers/keeps and now they would have an incentive.
The issue comes when a longbow guardian pops lb 5 and 5 rings appear, but right on top of each other. To get out, I need more than one stack of stab. That should not be the case. If 2 guardians were to ring me with their hammers, one stability stack will get me out. If 2 eles static me, one stab stack will get me out. If one guardian longbow 5s me, I need at LEAST 3 stacks of stab to get out. An ICD would allow for something other than stability ripping bombs. At present, I don’t use soft cc for anything, as I’ve mentioned. Hard cc is god. Why have soft cc if it’s not going to be needed in any way? I’m not asking for stability to be a pop once and you’re free from everything kind of skill, but I’m asking for it to prevent me from getting locked into a cc that I can’t get out of unless I have infinite stacks of stability.
Thats an issue regarding individual skills. I agree with you, skills like guard lb 5 are horrendous. Having stab should not be able to negate 50 ccs like it did before, and an icd is basically a reversion seeing as how you would be running through several ccs at once.
The biggest selling point imho of WvW is it’s dynamic and fast paced combat system. The current pirate ship meta is completly contra productive and with several competitors coming on the market that will be a factor.
We had 2 years fun playing melee and hammer trains in this game mode.
With the new options in boon removal there is no reason to not buff stability.
1. No gliding
2. No alliance/server merge crap
3. Yes rework desert border, remove it’s gimmicks
4. Yes rotate in alpine border BUT don’t even think on adding fluff and pve gimmicks
5. ASK your players BEFORE you do game changing developing. That would safe you a lot of money and time (in case of deserted border around a year….)
6. Stability, CC, damage power creep….you know it
Don’t guilds have to work pretty hard to get these abilities?
A big guild can afford the costs without any problem. Once they have them many become free to use. They can still afford the costs to make the others.
They already have plenty of people, the boosts just makes an already powerful group even more so. They make personal and group skill and tactics become less important or irrelevant.
Small guilds have disproportionately large costs burden trying to catch up.
The problem is balance, and WvW does not have it in any shape or form.
In additon if people think that gold has any influence in balancing they are plain wrong. If some salty players get together and decide that it’s fun to use those banners they will get the neccessary tools to do it. And if done with the first guild they will do it with an alt guild. Just think were we will be in lets say one year.
Another thing is if you are in a matchup with an enemy server(s) that have off-prime time dominace. Most of their structures will be t3 and they can, compared to you, keep their upgrades, while your server will lose them and wont bother to put those upgrades into their towers/keeps in the first place.
We complained to Arena-Net about the high costs in upgrading pre-Hot. Instead of removing it they just replaced it with another huge gold sink if you want to stay competitive.
I sort of agree on some of your points but…
We were using emergency waypoint 3 times in a row to save our EB keep during one evening. And it felt great! It still makes me smile and thats what the game is about, making people happy and giving enjoyable memories.
That WP is a blessing if you are outnumbered and have to fight 2 enemy groups in separate maps. As every good thing, I am sure it can be abused and blobbed down to boringness too.
Atm I am looking at the Airship in SM our enemies who also have more people placed there, and I know SM wont be flipped during this matchup. And its sad because part of WvW is ruined for a week.
What helps the little guy helps the big guy even more.
Costs is one thing and tbh I’m not realy into that but could you also start to
review the WvW guild upgrades. Those are more and more available and off-prime time server starting into prime time with t3 structures plastered with those upgrades.
It makes it very hard up to impossible to flip those towers/keeps/sm.
It’s also unfun to fight zergs with 5 banners (dragon, turtle, centaur). At least you toned them down a bit.
i said it before.. merge all servers. & have 2 factions fight vs each other like all other smart mmo’s does. 3 & more factions is to much & does not guaranty population balance
Are you serious?? thats a horrible idea they might as well do 9v9 maps instead
why would megaserver be a bad ideia, i have alot of server pride, and i dont htink that would hurt, we would have less shards/istances of reapeated BL’s and EB, and we could start see a continent with several maps for guilds conquer valuable resources, instead of a reset model and repeat?
Megaserver doesn’t work. WvW player don’t want to play in an anonymous horde.
We want to play organized with our communities and with our commander on TeamSpeak.
The best example is EotM. 90% only karma and level-up trains. Most maps are lopsided because it always generates a new map when one colour fills the former map (usualy green but can vary now).
Nightcapping is a problem. Let me tell you a little story from the old days.
We are in EU t1 before the random match up patch. Every week would be between seafarers rest and Vizunah. Every week. Over and over and over and over and over again.
What happened was that every day of the week Vizunah would get up at 5am, ktrain every single map, upgrade everything to t3 and for the rest of the day they hide in their keeps behind one million arrow carts, never taking on a fight they don’t have to until you eventually managed to find a weak point because normal people finally came back from their real life and you get ques on every border. Now you slowly start to fight your way through all the keeps (because they never win fights unless having 20 ac or outnumbering you by more that 2v1…literally) and eventually you have a decent control of all maps until the late evening with everything nicely upgraded.
Then you have 5 hours of ppt in your side until their morning crew gets up and takes everything that is not their color.Please explain me how a server almost entirely playing like this is supposed to be the number 1 (=“best”) server for several years? Clearly nothing is broken there….
And german servers never hide behind their famous rivercarts….
@OP
I like the idea of a weighted ppt depending on how much map utilization.
What about splitting the actual week long match-up into 7 shorter match sprints with a reset at each ending? Since we don’t have to pay upgrades in gold it wouldn’d be a loss only the guild upgrades would cause some trouble.
No gimmik flyingin WvW please. It’s broken enough.
Would it be possible to implement a toggle for a Commander Tag so that it would be visible only to your squad/party? (Or maybe just squad/party and other commanders) Would love this for roaming/guild groups that don’t want to be visible on the map, yet still have some order without having to be diligent with Ctrl+T on the leader.
It would be very much appreciated.Thoughts/Comments?
Cheers,
Max
Our community has setup inofficial rules for that:
Blue tag: open raid
Yellow tag: closed guild raid
All other tags: scouts, havoc or focus groups
It doesn’t work always but for the most part our people stick to that. It also helps to talk in a friendly way to players running after your group if unwanted.
Thats why we need community driven servers and not megaservered eotm kittens.
Suppose that A-Net gave us a choice (they won’t), and we could have either EotM map or desert BL map for WvW. Which would you choose and why?
I’d take EotM over DBL simply because there is much better opportunity for fights on that map. Both maps have annoying PvE spam slapped into them, but at least EotM is better laid out for actual RvR combat.
What do you think?
My honest opinion? Delete both or use them for PvE or something.
EotM map is as bad as the new desert BL’s for WvW.
Except the EOTM map is actually played while the BL’s are not.
And how do you know how many layers are open? Besides if you call this anonymous horde running after a tag without communication or discipline WvW you are wrong.
Does your XP you get when your level 80 in EOTM go towards your mastery?
No just like normal WvW.
It takes a lot to get just one of the banner your not going to see them that often and when you do you out right kill the person holding it making sure they do have another for some time. The problem atm is with chron who can double up the banners effect (though i must say chron and its effect has destroyed a lot of balancing in wvw and i guess spvp).
We see both Turtle and Dragon banner in every prime time in the enemy full map zone blob. There is no balancing around currency price (see EVE Online Titan’s….).
What is meant to help the little guy helps the big guy even more. The devs should know this. MMO’s are around for a while.
For developing game mechanics in WvW there should be a basic key rule:
“Does it ruin fights?” If no: go for it – If yes: stay away from it
If you are complaining about marks and wells, well you have an issue friend. Apart from revenant, I do not see any op ranged damage. There are strong ones, but you have to sacrifice defense to use them properly. And that is not very wise in this bunker/condi spam meta.
I’m not complaining about marks and wells having high damage (they should and are in a good place) but in combination with more and more hard cc (hello new banners) and the “new improved stability” melee isn’t in good shape.
It’s not fun to play anymore and this pirate ship stuff is just dumb.
Projectile damage is way too risky to use due to immense amount of reflects and proj. destroys. Apart from revs there are no op ranged dmg dealers. Other can be easily killed by a gap closer and a good swing of a sword.
Marks and wells arn’t projectiles. Staff autoattack is no issue and that wasn’t even the topic of this thread.
Easy change?
Delete
At this stage, this is by far the cheapest option for Anet- although they will never admit it nor do it, rather alpine maps will come back as the ‘rotation’ and then they will ‘forget’ to rotate off them…
I would be totaly fine with that. Put some stab changes/pirate ship nerfs into that and most of my server would be happy.
Hey everyone
We started seeing this yesterday, some people were fixed with the hotfix but not everyone. We are currently investigating the issue and trying to isolate what makes some accounts different from others. A bug has been opened and I"m linking this thread in there, so if people could post their OS and which client they are using and any other information you think might help we’d appreciate it!
I didn’t had this bug yesterday but got it now with your bugfix….
Windows 10
64-bit client
Easy change?
Delete
In my guild we have a druid in the commander party. Everyday the com is amazed about the healing potential of it.
No wonder since you only fight doors.
This fellow is talking about how they are removing gold costs in a month as well as fixed progress timers
OP and Jane didn’t talk about HoT. It’s a month to it’s release. Go back into your cave.
Hi Anet,
Please limit free accounts to EOTM. It is one of the easiest ways to control them trolling WvW. Otherwise you will need to restrict supply carry, commander tags, upgrades etc for them in WvW which will be more complicated. Restriction to EOTM only will entice them to purchase the game more if they like WvW and want to help their server ‘win’. Level to 60 before WvW is not a restriction at all for serious trollers.
Restrictions listed here : https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157
Free accounts need to be limited to EOTM only.
+1 agreeing to this. Please don’t eanable access to normal wvw maps.
Mass disconnects in WvW without a pattern. Simply crash to desktop for multiple player.
Same issue here. Tried to log into any WvW map and when I finaly load I end up somewhere underwater and get a disconnect to my character menu (while still hearing the underwater blubber….).
It started for me shortly after WvW reset.