its really bad. PVP is such a bad experience right now, the people I get matched with … its not even about division… I go on huge losing streaks because the people on my team do some really bad bad stuff… and lose games (going for mob right off the bat in forest…. overcommitting to 4v2’s and leaving nodes open, not going for buffs in temple(the right buffs mind you ), defending treb in kylo.. just really bad stuff… and I k eep getting teamed up with these guys and stuck in this endless abyss call ruby. It makes me sick.
I’ve decided to take a break for the next week until the patch comes, hopefully they fix this matchmaking…. ITS such a bad experience.
I know how you feel man :( And the worst part is the trend never seems to swing in the opposite direction.
Agemnon so you want to need the main two viable thief survivability methods and give them more single target cc, in a game mode that is geared for team fights. That would make thief highly unusable due to the amount of Aoe and passive a every other class have access to, and Anet stated their goal for thief to be The mobility class.
I’d increase their stunbreak options (so roll for initiative and shadowstep aren’t required utilities anymore and may even be redundant in many purely stunbreak situations) but also dial way back on everyone’s AoE CC. I’d still keep up mobility but just give it a slight nerf to balance out its greater 1v1 potential.
I’d nerf thief/daredevil mobility and even energy regeneration but give them more single target CC options. I’d steer them into a mostly 1v1 role but still relatively weak in teamfights. I’d make scorpion wire a profession ability and increase its range and be good for pulling stompers, rezzers, and keeping an eye on that mesmer or ele’s tells to interrupt them. The primary goal for the ability is creating 1v1 scenarios (all those are why I run sword/sword with revenant but there you need to be near the target) by isolating targets for a short time. Steal on mesmers also gives an item that grants group alacrity.
“For starter, Rev’s real problem is Banish Enchantment, Riposting Shadow, Impossible Odds, and traits that grant stability on dodge with no ICD.”
1.Yes, banish enchantment is bull.
2.Riposting shadow is a needed ability within the context of this CC heavy meta.
3.Impossible odds will be brought back in line when quickness no longer effects rezzing speed. It’s also energy expensive.
4.Stability on dodge again is needed in this CC/interrupt heavy meta. Can’t be cheated out of a stomp with gust or point blank shot.
Wait, I dont understand what are you on about? Isn’t this happens in other pvp games as well like dota and lol? Isn’t quickly adapting the meta part of being pro?
Also how is this spit on pvper? Since when does pro players aka very small community equals the whole pvp player base?
Balance should always assume the best players are using the class unless they’re balancing for skill, which means they don’t intend for certain characters, heroes, or classes to be played at a high level but rather be “overpowered” to inexperienced players. Balancing for skill is also why dragonhunters have the best balancing this season.
Because they got killed by mesmer. Next day they lose to something else
and is back on the forum to get that nerfed too.
Notice how the most played classes are the least complained about.
No, it’s because they either:
1.Simply won’t die unless you 2v1 or more them.
2.stealth quickness rez someone. Can’t cleave if the rez outpaces the cleave damage or target something stealthed.
3.Ability resets. I don’t get to reset all my cooldowns so why should they?
4.AoE fields that grant their side alacrity and the opposing side slow. There’s no counterplay to this and is especially nasty combined with ability reset.
Yes buff to reaper is bad, but worst thing ever is a bit of a stretch…
1.Play an ele, druid, or anything really.
2.Hold a point against a mesmer and watch them endlessly reset their skills, without that reset you know you’d win. Watch as their teammates outnumber and kill you.
3.Get turned into a moa without warning and for ludicrously long periods of time, be a sitting duck with no counterplay or access to your skills whatsoever.
4.You’re about to get in a stomp, you prepared your stability and…he’s stealthed then rezzed up!
5.Too much confusion and mitigation.
You complained about your illusions dying fast but lots of summoned NPC’s live far too long. Necro minions live through my celestial (which has power, precision , and ferocity in addition to lots of defensive stats) druid’s barrage. with lots of health to spare. Those NPCs can obstruct downed players’ projectiles and simply obstruct in general but their health is high enough where apart from the worm you should ignore them. Gyros are also too tanky people say UA is overpowered but a stealth gyro can live through it just fine and that’s a problem.
6. You don’t do a lot of damage but you have more than enough support and utility to make up for it.
Boring is still a huge step up from frustrating as hell so the viewers have it good compared to the players.
At least Noscoc is a legit legendary and the others probably are too so it isn’t like you were dealing with stronghold farmers or matchmaking abusers too.
Yep, queued up at what’s supposed to be a “good” time after a so-called “fix” and this happens. Overwatch is gonna be fun.
Whatever happens all the other classes need to have an option to reset all their cooldowns too. It isn’t fair that mesmer is the only one who does on top of exclusive alacrity/slow fields, portals that other teammates can go through, and instacast moa form that gives a way too long transformation on top of passive confusion stacks.
A sledgehammer needs to be taken to all the classes and reworked from scratch taking into account all the new boons and conditions.
There are also hacks that apart from the big obvious teleport hacks also enable you to gain a subtle increase in movement speed so you’d fly below the radar of anyone who’d report you while having a perma-half swiftness edge :(
Hacks and exploits make such systems totally worthless.
Nerfing mesmer into the ground. Seriously they’re unkillable 1v1 because they keep resetting their cooldowns. If they weren’t able to reset everything they’d actually be mortal 1v1.
Idol: Elementalist elite. Has a pop theme mechanically based off boons and would somewhat be like chronomancer but without the base mesmer stuff and have a different rhythm and boonset to it to avoid obsoleting chronomancers or making taking an idol and chronomancer redundant.
Maybe it’s recent events, but as soon as I read this, I imagined David Bowie as an elementalist, weaving his musical magic and looking awesome doing it. What if, instead of attunements, you used the F1-F4 keys to channel different Bowie characters? E.g. press F1 to become a Ziggy Stardust and conjure martian spider elementals. Your weapon would be the newly added Guitar, a two handed weapon which slaughters foes at range with blistering musical numbers and can be used as a club at melee range.
That…would be awesome! :D Or a greatsword but introducing different guitar skins for them so you’re using a greatsword but looks like a guitar ^_^
My speculation is that the MMR factor is actually showing up now. You can have high mmr in a lower division.
Matches have gotten ‘easier’ since the division is full of amber shopper rank ups. And they are on the same mmr but not actually as good as the mmr thinks.
That’s who I’m afraid of getting paired with next season when I try ranking back up :( Team queuing should hedge against that.
Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fightsUnfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.
revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi
Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.
wat? since when?
Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.
No one implied that, you just need to learn to play rofl.
Between timing dodges (which give STABILITY), sig of energy and Riposting Shadows, you should have absolutely no problem getting the hell away from a fight. If you’re lucky, there’s another fight the next node over and you can even Phase Traversal away. In WvW is where it gets problematic escaping, but off topic.
- old s/d thief switched to Rev for ranked
Revenants get stability for dodging? lmao and they thought the thief dodge traits were too strong then release this monstrosity
There needs to be some counterplay against the mindless CC AoE spam going on.
Because they already reached legendary and therefore have no more incentive.
And what is the point of legendary when you can get it while playing like most ambers?
Exactly.
Probably beat a bunch of exploiters, stronghold farmers (optimal strategy is solved so it’s easy to cheese vs pugs) or people with bad MMR to begin with. Matchmaking took both league and MMR into account so if you had low MMR you’d face others in a lower pool, just it’d be lower pool plus division.
*Here’s the thing: What you want doesn’t necessarily equal what you are entitled to have.
Ascension is a PvP legendary showing your dedication to a game mode, just like the Fractal Legendary is one showing its dedication to fractals, and any other legendaries are a proof that people put hours into a long-term investment in order to flash their new shiny to people.
Making it accessible by any other means just entirely void it out. It’s like saying that I want all masteries in game without setting foot in any sort of PvE area… *
I have to agree here. If someone wants a prestige PvP item then the correct course of action is to get good at one’s favorite classes, work on their mechanical skills, in unranked if need be to avoid risking pips especially during prime hours, and find a team to maximize class coordination and keep out underperforming specs and classes.
Seems like the terrible matchmaking seeped its way into unranked.
I’m tired of getting paired with these idiots though. EVERY forest today had me see four of their guys at mid early so I had to run back while the other team was always consistently good. I’m tired of this bullsh** and I bet Overwatch is going to be better balanced mechanically and matchmaking wise off the bat. Hell, even Guild Wars 2 was more balanced at launch than the cesspool it is now.
This is in unranked, which I’m queuing because ranked has been pure cancer lately in the first place.
Yes please. Even unranked is pure cancer too. People got tired of screwed up matchmaking in ranked so many of us are doing unranked instead. I keep getting put with people who rush beast early and leave me to die in mid.
What’s going to be done about conditions? Condition application far outstrips your ability to cleanse it and with viper stats in the game they last way too long. Some cleanses like seed of life are on a charge, which can be interrupted and therefore delayed casting.
I have lots for mesmer (such as spreading out some of its advantages along with ele to other classes) but for now I want to focus on illusions. If you target the mesmer then obviously you want to hit the mesmer and not clones. If you set it to the mesmer before they bring up clones then targeting will stay on the mesmer. Also greatly reducing confusion output since it’s purely unearned passive damage.
Because you’ll have more leeway for jumps giving wider windows to release mouse buttons. On the pirate jumping puzzle (Harathi I think) for example you can jump from a beam to the pirate ship with gliding instead of carefully jumping to the ship’s sails.
I would but it’s just not technically feasible and the old maps were designed without gliding in mind. Trivializing jumping puzzles and intentionally maze like or otherwise inconvenient layouts (especially Straights of Devastation and other Orr maps) isn’t something they’d want. Not to mention going through the map potentially. Besides, there’d be no real utility in it anyway for most of the core maps.
I keep seeing that word. I do not think it means what nay-sayers think it means.
And on another note, are there any ledges I can use to glide over to the UPDATED SHATTERER?
No that map tends to be very flat with short hills even if you could. Updated Shatterer? It’s about time. As for trivializing let’s say you’re playing a single player game. You’re in the early stages and have weak weapons and powers. Now, if you enter a cheat code and get endgame stuff you’ll trivialize the early stuff since the game doesn’t assume you’ll have those resources at that stage. Why utilize skill with low level stuff and abilities when you can nuke everything with endgame stuff that assumes you’ll be in situations where you’ll actually need it?
Also, I like Gravity Falls ^_^
“Engineer is jack of all trades so I want see this tend in future(for only me, gyros are bad idea)
I will really enjoy something like this”
I say keep the basic jack of all trades stuff but emphasize dual wielding swords with different status effects and venom share but with an overall emphasis on 1v1 combat but still hold his own okay in teamfights but I can see scrapper still being competitive with blade techer.
So probably not a pure MMR thing that disregards leagues like I hypothesized (since you can still technically be amber or emerald with a very high MMR if you weren’t very active this season). This looks seriously broken. However, That other team did very well to get that far.
(edited by Agemnon.4608)
My ideas:
Ninja: warrior elite. Is daredevil modified for warrior while warrior obtains stealth skills with their new weapon (offhand dagger and some utilities). Warrior can already duel wield swords so it makes sense. Master and grandmaster traits will either strengthen stealth, or put a greater emphasis on dual wielding swords.
Monk: thief elite. My reasoning is thief is relatively weak on group healing apart from shadow refuge condition removal. Monk has barehands abilities (so no weapons equipped in a slot is the equivalent of having two ascended zealot single hand weapons) that are somewhat similar to druid staff but costs initiative. The first two abilities are punches without supernatural elements: autoattack consists of a punching and kicking rotation (third skill in the chain is a roundhouse kick) while the second ability is a tiger claw strike that causes blind and daze (the daze has a cooldown). The third is like druid’s solar beam but has a wider radius and hits harder and heals better, but since it costs initiative it balances out. Skill 4 is like druid’s heal 3 but point blank AoE so must be around the monk, and skill 5 is a bicycle kick that is the same mechanically as unrelenting assault, but due to UA’s cooldown on top of energy will be less potent than that skill for balancing reasons (but still be initiative heavy). Monk’s elite skill faith healing is like guardian’s elite that heals everyone for full in a certain radius, but also cleanses all conditions giving 10 second condition immunity.
Idol: Elementalist elite. Has a pop theme mechanically based off boons and would somewhat be like chronomancer but without the base mesmer stuff and have a different rhythm and boonset to it to avoid obsoleting chronomancers or making taking an idol and chronomancer redundant.
1.Slayer: base class Mesmer. Their new weapons are daggers. The slayer skill glorious bod would make the player immune to critical hits thus is a counter to passives that have a 100% crit proc like a weapon swap from a sigil.
2.Black belt: base class guardian. With no weapons equipped it’s like having two celestial ascended weapons for this guy. The elite skill bicycle kick cannot be blocked and last a little longer than a ranger’s rapid fire. It’s like rapid fire mechanically but the black belt tracks its target with chained attacks. Cannot be interrupted, 60 second cool down, 20% more crit with no weapons equipped.
Solid Fang. Necro elite. They gain vampiric powers like transforming into bats (skill similar to ele’s mistform but faster) and while I know they have lifesteal this would take it to the next level. The emphasis is on lifesteal (group lifesteal AoE for an elite) power damage and mobility but at the expense of being less adept at conditions but poison is still central.
7. Jouster: ranger. They ride their pets and obtain 1/2 of the pet’s stats. So if a brisleback has 16k HP and a ranger rides it the ranger would obtain 8k HP in addition to half its defense, crit, power,etc. Saddle of justice would increase the stats to 1.25x pet’s base stats for a 15 second period (so a pet with 1,000 toughness will temporarily give 1,250 toughness instead of 500 for example). Pet skills cannot be used while riding them.
8.Bladetecher-engineer. It makes sense to finally give engineer swords because I think the 2012 Halloween chain sword goes great with them. Kits revolve around augmenting blades. Remember in World of Warcraft rogues using different poisons on daggers? Here the same principle applies with different effects including shared group lifesteal, chill spam, burn, or poison effects can be augmented to the swords. Don’t know what elite skills to add however, engineer is already pretty versatile. Keeping in mind that it can’t stack with scrapper however maybe reuse their elite skill?
And for revenant…I got nothing so far, sorry
Two elites cannot be taken so no daredevil monks please.
I would but it’s just not technically feasible and the old maps were designed without gliding in mind. Trivializing jumping puzzles and intentionally maze like or otherwise inconvenient layouts (especially Straights of Devastation and other Orr maps) isn’t something they’d want. Not to mention going through the map potentially. Besides, there’d be no real utility in it anyway for most of the core maps.
Maybe it’s related to why the leaderboards are down? Maybe they tweaked things to ignore league and just pay attention to MMR? Might be best to do unranked until things stabilize.
Matchmaking usually sucks whenever the buff is on.
Honestly, I’m not entirely sure how ANet should nerf mesmer.
The clues were in the previous paragraph:
For PvP, frankly moa/timewarp can be a stronger pick than gravity well (I pretty much always take moa soloq now). TW helps with res’s and stomping, which are meta in this game mode atm. Moa generates a down better than GW (GW doesn’t work on bunkers with loads of blocks & stab), and if it’s a 2v2 you’re in, also guarantees the finish because you can do moa a second time.
As you basically said, “Gravity well at least has some form of counterplay whereas moa form guarantees a down.” Guarantee is quite a strong word, with the implication of definite consequences due to a knowledge that it lacks a counter. At the very least reduce moa duration to 3 seconds and make it telegraphed and charged, maybe needing to root the caster. Since there’s no way to cleanse moa it has no counteprlay.
TW helps with rezzing and stomping way too well.
*
Does A-net budget utility allocation? There are a bunch of new utilities, even without traits to enhance them, that are clearly over budget. Here’s an example:
Riposting Shadows:
-Cures: Immobilize, Cripple, Chill
-Returns 50 endurance
-Evades
-Stun Break
All of the above for 30 energy. Who comes up with this stuff and thinks, at any level, it is some how balanced?
There’s a laundry list of utilities that need to be chopped up, not just shaved, but chopped up. It’s actually pathetic when you look at some of the older utilities and compare them to the newer ones.*
With all the chill floating around we need either the following:
1.Reduced cooldowns across the board, especially global cooldowns like interrupted time.
2.Reworked condition mechanics, such as if you cleanse a condition you’re immune to that condition for six seconds. This will promote smarter use of conditions.
(edited by Agemnon.4608)
O.O is that for real? Wow, that’s like Mike Tyson fighting a toddler. Someone who is in charge of matchmaking code, needs to fix that asap.
More like someone with a gun going on a canned hunt. As if an advantage of a scope and lots of rounds weren’t enough (so anyone could get in free kills) they had to have it set up (via poor MMR that doesn’t take abusers into account.) Mike Tyson was a highly trained professional athlete so anyone analogous to him would make legendary legit.
Lots of counterfeit legenderies running around. Any random 5 people can get on teamspeak, look up the simple optimal stronghold strategy and comp on Google, and farm legendary. Maximum lulz ensue when everyone catches on and only cheese compers see each other in stronghold. Then the free ride is truly over.
3 pips away from Legendary. All soloq’s. Just had a Ranger on my team that used only longbow, off point, pew pewing a bunker necro, over an already capped point by the enemy the whole match. If he died, he ran back and did it over and over again.
How did he get to Diamond, let alone past Ruby?
Thank you for the quality matchmaking Anet.
This exactly what happens when people MMR manipulate. So instead of ANET fixing the issue they don’t touch it until next season.
I really like their solutions (especially since I recommended some like matchmaking putting others of similar MMR on your team) but needs some kind of MMR reset since many MMR manipulators have MMR lower than their skill while many of those who were carried have inflated MMR. Thus at least a soft reset is needed while someone in another thread suggested a preseason where their MMR can be determined for the next season.
“Rev- Neither would fix the issue. UA can die if you multiple targets or stealth, or retal…or confusion…or weakness….or protection? The problem is Eye for an Eye and stablity on dodge and PERMA TOTC. Thats….smart? Fix it naow anet, naow naow naow.”
I have no issue with fixing these but the OP rev damage feels fine within the context of this overly bunker meta. I agree with the auto nerf but should only effect lower armor characters. Give the attack some kind of armor/toughness penetration so it’s nearly as powerful against celestial builds as before but hits thieves and marauder builds in general less hard. Maybe make it a trait?
Keep in mind people in higher divisions aren’t necessarily better. Some could have farmed stronghold with the solved optimal comp, or have low MMR so they’d progress by competing within that pool instead of a higher one (since the old MMR system works parallel to the league system, which is an awful situation).
To be fair to the druid longbow works great against necros from my experience (just be alert to stability) but running back to die wasn’t the best. Staff mostly has its uses in group fights where players can stand in LoS of the auto attack and CA form cleanses.
also what baffles me is that there is no word on revealed spam from engi and rev…. another horrible mechanic stays untouched
Considering how mesmer can stack a stealth rez with alacrity it has its place. Make thief less reliant on stealth. If mesmer or scrapper had no stealth access they’d still be meta.
“The only reason to PvP is to get the Ascension wings.”
Wrong. It’s mostly for competition and getting a chance to outplay others. They just need to fix matchmaking so bad teammates can’t act as an obstacle to your goal.
Unranked is more rewarding anyway, you’re somehow able to win far more often there than ranked. You won’t get the ranked exclusive goodies but at least you’ll have faster reward track progression. This is to say nothing of stronghold. It’s well known that weekdays are better for queuing in general…operative word being in general. Everyone else who knows the optimal strategies tends to be on the opposing side anyway.
In light of all the MMR abuse lots of people got carried to a higher MMR and this will effect matchmaking next season. Their “friends” suddenly don’t want them queuing with them anymore knowing they’ll be brought up to their level while those who were carried to higher divisions will wind up on other people’s teams.
I’m not complaining about the actual people on the opposing team in the picture who are simply doing what’s optimal for what the system gave them my complaint is about the system in the first place that allows it to be optimal.
(edited by Agemnon.4608)
Will cooldowns see a general reduction to account for how much chill is flying around (especially global cooldowns and interrupts)?
Will our leaderboard points still effect matchmaking?
It could work, given that the Dwarves’ homeland is really close to the Crystal Desert. Maybe they will be forced out of the depths and will help the ground-level races battle both dragons.
Spoiler alert: only one dwarf remains, all the others were wiped out.
I posted this in the PvP section because we need more PvP centric armors, preferably through achievements not reward tracks but reward tracks would still be cool.
The game desperately needs a skeleton themed heavy armor a lot like the dark set from Dark Souls and the astrologer’s set from Dark Souls 2. The Daiga Bigges outfit from Phantasy Star Online 2 looks like it could plausibly be a Guild Wars 2 medium armor set. I don’t mean ripping off the armors but rather inspired by them.
Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.
I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.
I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.
Just ensure that “faster paced” doesn’t result in spammy aoe/1-shot meta at the same time. Shave some of the active defenses from those who have too many (Chrono) and give them to some who need it more (Necromancer) and keep damage kind of similar and you will see less of those bunkers and more people dying.
Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}
Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.
I hate to correct a developer right now because how great it is that a balance patch is coming sooner than later, but in this case I need to.
“There’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent CC is”
The less you hit your target, the less overall damage you are going to do. One of the biggest reasons why Revenant is so damage-strong isn’t entirely it’s damage but right now it’s the only class that can run into a hurricane and not be knocked around.
Other classes have have better access to stability like ele (earth overload or overloads in general when traited), druid (utilities like strength of the pack), necro and even warrior. You need to dodge to activate the revenant stability and some downed skills like guardian down skill push back and activating stability is good to ensure an uninterrupted stomp instead of cleaving to death waiting for them to commit to the pushback so you can dodge it then stomp.
“Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.”
The weakness behind a balanced approach is you are inferior to the specialists in their areas of expertise. You attack better than defenders, defend better than attackers, but attackers whose offense assumes you’re a defender will shred you while the defenders anticipate an attacker onslaught and withstand you. I know it’s more complicated than that but in theory at least a balanced build’s strategy is to engage a specialist where they’re weak and avoid where they’re strong.
DH can be used in raids; they’re just not the optimal choice.
Why not? They can wear full ascended celestial while utilizing burn, traps, and healing.
Don’t like what i read about the revenant.
If you go power based, sword damage is the only reedeaming quality.
The class over all is very glassy and its sustain is clunky at best.
Every skill is telegraphed and has very long delays from the click to the effect because of casting times and animations.
To put it bluntly, damage in general is the only that makes the revenant worth it.
I play power rev with mainhand sword + offhand sword (sometimes shield) with staff as a secondary weapon with eagle runes and it isn’t just about autoattacking but making smart use of your cooldowns and energy. I only use sword 3 in special circumstances (opponent under 50% health or avoid trap damage if no dodge is up) which is likely the intent since healing up can be trivial. What balances revenant’s good damage is energy management and not so good self heals. Glint heal is only good if someone’s committed to an attack (rapid fire or unload for example.)
The change may be good overall if tankiness and survivability gets toned down across the board making for more active play.