Guild Wars 2

Well if more people on SoS and SoR quit their jobs… then they can play at Oceanic times and we’ll get some even fights!

My solution to the imbalanced population and I won’t even charge you!
:)

If there was a way for multiple groups (either guild or random groups) to form up without a pin but retaining the functions of the commander/squad system…. you would have less pins on the map taking away from those people that CAN lead well.

Many times commanders have the pins up to organize their guild grps. They don’t actually have the desire to lead the zone and are not making decisions that help overall zone fighting. They are simply trying to organize multiple groups for a specific agenda with their guild… IE: Camp taking, ganking, ambushing.

Implementing some form of system for 2-4 groups to coordinate better will reduce the “Bad commanders” and pins on the map.

I’m still flabbergasted that there is no way for more than 5 people to group in GW2 unless you spend 100gp on a commander pin.

There is no reason there couldn’t be a private squad system (no visible commander pin) that could still help 2-4 groups organize for WvW or PvE. There are lots of guilds that don’t necessarily want to lead the zone, but would love a way to coordinate multiple groups better.

Just something with a private chat channel and waypoint markers that all the groups in the private squad could see. Or have an icon similar to the commander icon, but only those people in the squad can see it.

This would still allow you to invite people and coordinate if you don’t have a pin.

wildcode.5403:

Thats annoying, I WvW with different characters depending on what I want to do

Apparently we can share gathering, mining and pick tools (they changed them from soulbound to accountbound) but 100g for the commander is still soulbound.

Every aspect of the commander and squad system needs a facelift.

Commander and squad was designed as a “Zerg Magnet” for WvW but can be used for PvE. The ability to use the C&S system for anything else, either tactical, stealthy or private activites in WvW, is negated by the “flashy blue beacon” that draws random people to it.

If you are planning any private guild activity, you’ll have to run as separate groups of 5 people moving together.

runeblade.7514:

Then ask for private Commander Icon instead.

This way, you still need to pay 100g for the commander icon, but you can set it that only people in your squad can see it and not any other players.

It also removes add-on wars 2.

Seems simple enough…. but we need the people who can actually change this to read the post!!

runeblade.7514

False, people were complaining that Commander Icon can’t be removed off the map. Anet changed it so it can.

You can’t retain a squad as a commander without having a pin visible to allies in the zone. You can turn off your pin, but you can’t keep a squad running and use the options available as a commander. Unless this is something new recently I’m pretty sure that’s how it is.

You need to be able to:

- Turn of the pin to all allies (except those invited into the squad)
- Retain all the functions of a commander. Waypoint marking, squad chat, supplyinfo.

runeblade.7514:

No, how about a private icon for Commander?

You still have to pay 100g, but only people in your squad can see your icon when you turn it private.

That is probably the easiest way to bridge the gap between zerg and medium tactical forces. Unfortunately it’s been advocated since BW1 and Arenanet doesn’t seem to care or choose to change it anytime soon.

The whole command & squad system needs a lot of love. It’s basically nothing more than a zerg magnet. There is no way to use it effectively for medium or tactical use as random people always flock to it.

Guilds running multiple guild grps that use tactics almost never put the pins up, as they don’t want to lead the whole zone and have hordes of people following them. Until they allow “private” squads or some other multi-grouping system the commander is basically a shiny beacon for pugs to flock too.

Ruprect.7260:

Lol this is 4 months old, but…

If you right click on a commandes and click join squad all you can see is that commanders tome and no one elses.

But the commander pin is still visible to everyone else NOT in the squad. So if you wanted to do some sneaky tactics with your squad you suddenly have 40 random players flock to the pin. You have no control over the size of makup of the squad.

We need a way to completely hide the commander pin from all allies, except those in the squad…. hence a “private” squad.

Bailey.6892:

It would be one thing if the command icon had a toggle that would do the following.

A) Turn it on/off for the realm.
b) Turn it on/off for the guild

Their are times I wouldn’t mind leading, other times when I wouldn’t mind leading my guild mates and times I just want to be left alone to have fun.

You explained exactly how I’ve felt at times. There is a need for different setups at different times…. but we don’t have the tools to do that.

There is simply no support for players or guilds that like to run 2-4 groups together doing non zerg activities in WvW.

I’m not sure if arenanet know how frustrating this can be for some players. They need more support for guilds and players who like to field medium size forces and don’t want to run with the zerg.

Easiest solution is allow people to form private squads where the commander pin is ONLY visible to people in the squad. It’s a minor change to implement private squads, but it would serve the purpose we need.

Fully support your idea Omaris…. just don’t think it’s a priority for the Devs anytime soon.

The commander and squad was designed for leading zergs in WvW and that’s pretty much it. It’s kinda sad thet we have only 2 ways to group in GW2. You run as a 5 person group… or follow the “zerg magnet” called a commander pin.

There is simply no support for players or guilds that like to run 2-4 groups together doing non zerg activities in WvW.

runeblade.7514:

Get a commander title.

This way, it is easier to organize groups larger than 5.

That’s great in PvE…. but doesn’t help in WvW, unless you like being harassed by people. And I do mean harassed…. I felt sorry a couple of times for people trying to organize some guild groups in WvW by putting up a commander pin who didn’t intend to lead the whole zone. I’ve seen people yelled at to turn off their commander pin because they weren’t “leading properly”. They weren’t actually trying to lead, they were simply trying to organize multiple guild groups together. If you have thick skin and don’t mind people ragging on you I guess it’s “easier” for WvW.

Even using VoIP to run multiple groups together in WvW, it’s still more effective with a visual marker on the map and shared waypoints. Without anyway to coordinate multiple grps together (except with a big flashy commander beacon) you are going to have a collection of separate 5 person groups, running side by side with no shared chat channel, no ability to set a shared rally point or distingush each other from all the green dots on the map.

I think what I’m really trying to say is they need better grouping systems to fit the players needs. Having only two grouping options in GW2 is kinda sad. The commander and squad was designed for leading zergs in WvW and that’s pretty much it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I support this idea as long as it is Guild Commander. Meaning if the person is in your guild they can see the commander, if they aren’t they can’t.

It allows guilds to organize amongst themselves, without interfering with anyone outside the guild. It also offers some interesting posibilities with a full blue commander. If he fills his squad with guild commanders of various guilds they could provide a lot more organization.

Bingo! Now if only all the arenanet devs thought like that….

Todd.8162:

The party size limit needs to be larger than the current 5.

My guild-mates and I play together once a week and we regularly number more than 5. While using Team Speak helps to communicate, the benefits of drawing and pinging the map are lost.

The 8-person limit from Guild Wars I would be a good lead to follow.

And, no, I will not be suckered into buying a “commander” upgrade.

I don’t agree on the size limit as most of the group content has been designed for 5 party members and changing that would involve massive content change.

I DO agree that there needs to be massive upgrade on GW2’s grouping system for multiple groups. The commander and squad system is currently the only way for more than 5 to group together and is useless for small or private groups doing an activity.

The last 4 MMO’s I’ve played have had better grouping systems for multiple groups than GW2. Gw2 has gotten many things right…. but that lack of grouping mechanics is a big stain.

Leave them both.

Problem solved and the consulting bill is in the mail.

Arnath.2319:

Im starting to think there is no point playing this game anymore as clearly the developers have no interest in PVE.

They have added two new structured PvP maps, and a new breakout event NPC in WvW. That’s pretty much it since release for PvP.

You say they have no interest in PVE, well then they REALLY have no interest in PvP. I believe there has been much more PvE content added than Pvp content since the game went live.

First they would need to add some kind of grouping system for more than 5 people.

Commander and squads don’t count…. that’s basically for zerg herding in WvW.

The Goat.1940:

agree we need larger group size, the 5 player isn’t working our guild has to set up 5-6 parties and there is always someone looking for an open spot…

Not only that, but even in VoIP there is always some group members that can split off during a fight or get seperated from guild groups. It’s easy say “Rally on me” but if there is no indication on that map it takes time and can become difficult.

You can ping and draw on the map, but it’s only visible to your group. The most effective visual in game way is dropping a rally point so everyone can it. But of course you need to have a commander pin up…. and suddenly it’s your guild groups as well as 30 other random people.

Great if you want to lead the zone. Not great if you wanted to do sneak/stealth tactics with your guild groups.

itsmee.7536:

interesting idea to say the least.

Lots of great ideas to improve social and grouping mechanics in the game. Hopefully we can make arenanet understand that proper tools to group and coordinate are important for many guilds and players.

Ragnar.4257:

It’s a little different for commanders with strong guilds behind them who are all on teamspeak. They really can rely on their followers to follow orders quickly and tightly, but it just does not work that way when you’re leading randomers.

There are always people in your group who insist on auto-attacking every gate or animal in their path, so sneak attacks without orange swords are usually out of the question if your squad is randomers.
Randomers find it very hard, for some reason, to stay tight on the commander, so if you try an do a flank attack in the style of a dedicated guild (balling up, maneuvering to the rear and smashing through), instead what you end up with is roughly a third staying tight on you, a third spreading out from you so as to be not very useful but still vaguely following your path, and a third completely ignoring your path and just running directly at the enemy, getting themselves very quickly wiped, weakening our force, and blowing the element of surprise.

This is almost exactly the same issues we’ve had. Our guild does run in VoIP, and even then it’s hard to do some tactics without a visual marker. Say you are running with 3-4 guild grps, you can ambush quite successfully by placing groups in certain positions and baiting with a single group. It’s MUCH easier to setup groups using the commander and squad waypoints that everyone can see. But putting the pin up draws random people who defeat the plan.

There simply needs to be tools in the game to allow multiple group coordination and communication that doesn’t put up a big blue dorito saying “everyone come here and ruin our sneak/stealth tactics!” The easiest solution is keep the current C&S system and allow you to turn off the pin without disbanding the squad.

Just curious if there is a plan to return Orbs to the equation in WvW….. but with different buffs?

Perhaps switch the Outmanned Buffs with the Orb Buffs? Orb buffs will give increased magic find, XP and Karma. Outmanned buffs will give stat buffs.

My understanding was that giving MORE stats to the server that was dominating was inblancing things and they were removed. Giving orbs NON-combat buffs seemed a reasonable solution.

Either way… any word if they are returning?

Cactus.2710:

So how many four month old threads on this topic do you plan to resurrect? I would have thought one would be sufficient but I count four so far.

Well obviously the issue is one I feel needs much improvement. I just did a search for “commander” and it brought up all these threads… to be honest I didn’t look at the dates. These are started by other people, I was just commenting on other people’s posts.

I do find it interesting that these are a lot of the same issues people have been unhappy with since release. I think we can all agree that improvements are needed.

meep.2601:

I love how this thread is from FOUR (4) months ago. 5 person group limit for a game with the word WARS in the title = fail

I understand they have more serious issues (culling and que bugs) but I’d hoped to see some improvement…. actually ANY improvement in the ability to group and organize. I’m sure in time this will be addressed, but it just doesn’t seem to be a priority at this time for some reason.

I’d rather see improvements to social and grouping system before seeing new game content.

MarzAttakz.9608:

I simply do not understand why people are so obtuse and against a request for better in game organisational tools. Having a single answer in the form of a commander icon which lacks even the rudiments of proper command structure is simply ridiculous.

We already have a guild upgrade category devoted to War, why not extend that system to add power and structure to the guild heirarchy to allow the research and assignment of deeper command to that tier allowing guilds to tailor their party and raid accordingly?

Guild upgrade would be great, anything to help organize guild groups better in PvE and WvW. WvW especially as using the commander system causes tension at times if you don’t plan on leading.

Hymnosi.5928:

I hate asking directly, but we commanders often have this on the back of our mind. There are tons of suggestions and no answers on the topic, any direction?

Arenanet posted recently that they have no immediate plans to change the commander and squad system. Apparently they think it’s working fine dispite numerous feedback to the contrary.

Phatkillz.5938:

The problem is having several blue commander icons on the map is pretty much useless.

The problem is half those blue pins are simply guild groups using the only system in the game to coordinate more than one group. Until there is a viable option added you are going to see commanders on the map that are not interested in leading the map.

I believe from a dev post about 24 days ago they mentioned that they won’t be addressing changes to the commander and squad system anytime soon.

This doesn’t make much sense to me as grouping and coordinating in a social and organized PvP game should be a priority.

Zorion.7504:

I dissagre about guild commanders, but guild squads should most deffently be a researchable feature!

Guild commander or Guild sqaud… both should only be seen or useable to the guild. either way some kind of system needs to be in place for multiple guilds to group. The commander and squad system is not currently designed for helping guild groups organize… it’s designed for people to lead zergs.

Syndic.4762:

This is how it should have been from the beginning.

My guild runs as a “warband”, 15-30 people usually. The Commander status is very lackluster for it’s pricetag. Since we’re on comms, /squad is redundant and the only thing Commander does is make it easier for the new recruits to follow the warband.

From my perspective I would add some points the commander needs:
- streamlined user interface to see and organize parties in a warband (25 people?)
- Ability to see warband supplies without having to type /squadinfo every time.
- Ability to make the warband “private”, sometimes you don’t want pugs following you.

This sounds almost exactly what our guild would like. Warhammer’s warband system could be customized and used for any possible situation or scenario. Right now I’d simply be happy to see a “private” option for commander and squads.

LoserPolice.2157:

Just let guilds buy temp commander icons for members with influence.

Even commanders that are only visible to guild members. That way there is always someone in the guild can can be given a commander status for events and multiple guild grps.

Sir William PD.9615:

I turn the “zerg-o-matic” off when I am doing a small group mission because I don’t want 10,000 people following me when I am going to take a supply depot and come back.

Would sure be nice to turn “off” a commander pin and still retain all the squad functions and leave the squad intact! If they need someone to lead you can turn it back on without reforming everything.

Hillierawrs.5834:

Agreed, commanders could be great but as it is now, its nothing more but a fancy icon.

You’d need to be able to see your members, call targets and i also feel like you should be able to turn you Commander icon on or off, or set it to only Squad.

Why set it only to squad visibility? Simply because its a waste if everyone on the map follows the commander, when there could be lets say 3 zergs instead covering more ground

Totally agree!

Judas.5432:

Also, if you can turn off the icon and you are not planning on leading people actively, please do so. Nothing is worse than seeing a group of people following a commander who isn’t doing anything significant.

The problem is that there is simply no other way in-game for multiple groups to coordinate. Until that issue is resolved you will have guilds or groups of people putting commander pins up who aren’t leading.

It’s the lack of flexibility that causes to many pins…. simply no other option.

FatFuzzy.2659:

I agree there should be an option to ignore it…until we all have enough money to buy one and there are 1,000 ‘commanders’ running around all shouting orders lol…commander should be visible to GUILD ONLY. The rest of the players DO NOT CARE and DO NOT WANT to see that icon.

Until there is a system to allow multiple groups to coordinate in game…. we’ll have people with commander pins up that may not actually be trying to lead the zone.

lysander.6154:

Actually, why should squad-creation be limited to commander title at all? That would have been even better than -ever- allowing know-nothing or know-little commanders.

I would love to see the ability to create a squad without the commander pin. Anyone can form a squad (squad leader) and have the same functions the commander has but without the visible pin.

Something that cany be used for multiple groups doing any activity either in PvE or WvW.

SKYeXile.2716:

but, but, having a raid encourages zerging, the open group system with a commander icon on the map is a much better system to discourage zerging.

I disagree with that. Having a commander icon on the map ENCOURAGES zerging. People look at the blue pin and flock to it. Having either a private commander system (able to hide pin) or a Raid system would allow multiple groups or medium forces to coordinate better in the numbers they want.

Most people wanting private squads are simply guilds who run multiple groups and don’t want to run in a zerg situation, but still want to use in-game grouping systems to coordinate better.

They can even us the current commander and squad system and add the option to hide the commander pin so only people currently in the squad can see it. Basically making squads private.

I’ll take anything more than what we currently have in the game.

Yes Shirou I agree. Basic functions common in most other MMO grouping systems would be helpful. Aside from que’s and culling this is the next most frustrating thing for our guild.

100% agree.

Coordinating players and guilds in multiple groups should be easy… right now its nonexistent.

Xaaz.8472:

The system is fine the way it is. The stupid commanders will have nobody following them and eventually turn it off.

But what if you don’t want to be a zone commander and are simply looking for the best in game way to organize and coordinate multiple groups together.

This is where GW2 grouping system lacks. It seems they designed commander and squads for leading the zone, but left no other viable option for smaller forces to organize in game that use multiple groups. VoIP is useful to a point, but marking targets, checking supply and having a dedicated chat channel can also help organize.

Anzu.5702:

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

That’s part of the adventure! Learning to avoid the zerg and ambush the people at the tail end. There are certianly some things they could do to promote smaller forces on the map. By removing gate tagging (single player keeping a objective contested) and removing the DE timer porting (porting to a contested keep when the event timer resets) you could get smaller fights. If zergs have to make a choice to defend a keep or take objectives for points… it will split them up. Also, with NO waypoint porting to contested keeps (ever) then everyone will have to run there and you’ll get more open world skirmishes.

Right now the zerg can roam freely and port back a contested keep anywhere on the map when the DE timer resets. You remove that option and the zerg will be reduced as some will always need to defend.

I think some guilds running multiple guild groups just want to do their own thing and would like to use the commander and squad system to help organize more effectively.

Putting that pin up seems to come with the expectations that you are leading the whole zone…. but that’s not what some guilds want to do.

Mif.3471:

Ahmrill.7512:

Arenanet also mentioned that they have no intention of making changes to WvW.

FTFY

Well that’s not quite what I said.

They had a post about 24 days ago saying they had no plans to change the commander and squad system at this time.

Jiiub.7135:

ofcourse, but this would be what we want, so ofcourse, forget it

I’m sure in time we’ll see something added…. but IMO sooner is better than later. Coordinating groups, guilds and players should be easy… especially for WvW.

The commander and squad system is a one trick pony with no flexibility to adjust to player and guilds playstyles. Can you imagine how much more it would be used if you could hide the commander pin? You could do any activity you want with multiple groups and not interfere with those commanders trying hard to lead.

Flint.5620:

The defensive and causal commander seems to come around when things are slow or likes to group people to karma farm exc. These can be perceived as the ‘bad’ commanders because there goals are different. Now you can make an argument that’s not what a commander icon is for but it is still a reality in the game.

If people had the choice of a multi group system (aka Raid) or using the Commander, many guilds would use the Raid system. They often DO have specific goals they want to do, which does NOT include organizing and leading the server.

Until there is a viable in-game option for grouping multiple groups that doesn’t show the commander pin….. people are going to use the commander pin for everything. You either need a new grouping system or a way to turn off the commander pin so it’s only visible to those people in the squad.

There are many different types of players and playstyles, and a grouping system should be flexible to reflect that. You have ONE way to group with over 5 people, and only if you are leading the whole zone.

I remember one time we had about 8 commander pins up in a zone. Two commanders were trying to lead the zone the other 6 pins were guilds running multiple groups. People started getting nasty in /map and /team telling the guild commanders to turn it off. This is what I saw in map chat a few months back:

/map “TURN YOUR COMMANDER PIN OFF YOU ARE NOT LEADING”

This was quickly followed by obscenities in /map and /team when they wouldn’t drop the pins. So let’s use the only in game system for multiple groups so people can get harassed? It’s an easy fix, but just doesn’t seem to be a priority at this time.

Taaboo.4610:

A good and much needed addition to WvWvW, imo, being able to form raid groups instead of just single 5 player teams. This is GuildWars not 5 man team wars.

Simplest solution is allow commander and squads to flag as /private. Use the existing commander and squad system but turn the pin off so ONLY the people currently in the squad can see it. This would avoid the headaches of multiple pins running everywhere and people would actually use it more for their guild groups as it doesn’t interfere with those commanders leading the zone.

Unfortunately they have no plans to address this anytime soon.

IMO WvW should be unpredictable, when you step out into the open field….. anything can happen. That’s one of the things that makes WvW so enjoyable. Just when you think you are about to take an enemies keep, the third server’s zerg hits you.

sPvP is for balanced small PvP combat.