Guild Wars 2

Just allow “private” squads… that will fix the problem. Half the “bad commander” pins on a map are simply people trying to use the ONLY grouping system in GW2 for over 5 people.

If we actually HAD a way for more than 5 people to group without popping a visible commander pin or had guild only commanders things would be much better.

Running together in separate 5 person groups, marking one person who’s leading and using a 3rd party voice program is not an adequate substitution for a private squad.

MiLkZz.4789:

These ain’t the only fixes they have to introduce to the commander icon. That icon is just a blue taco atm, nothing more. The squad is an absolute joke and you have 0 commander options. If you try to command by typing you get muted for spamming. So yea, almost looks like Anet gets sponsored by teamspeak.

So many things GW2 did right, but the flexibility and functionality of the current Commander and Squad is terrible. MMO’s that came out 6 years ago had 10x the grouping system. No way to control the size or makeup of your squad? They need a private squad system at the very least.

The problem is… there is simply NO other way to group more than 5 people in GW2 unless you join a Commander which most often becomes a zerg. If they actually had another way for multiple groups to coordinate under 25 people we’d have better WvW.

We need more medium sized forces moving around the map, but we don’t have the tools to coordinate and form them. Having some kind of private squad or guild squad system would help. Basically allow a commander to hide his pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad. We’d have public zerg commanders, private specialty squads and 5 man groups on the battlefield.

Running together in separate 5 person groups, marking one person who’s leading and using a 3rd party voice program is not an adequate substitution for a private squad.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I can’t quite believe there hasn’t been much changes to the all important commander or party system I’ve seen people with tags who have not much clue and just confuse the pugs especially with multiple tags or when we try a guild raid it would be nice to only make the tag only visible to our guilds, yet we get these arrow cart buffs, gimmicky traps, wvw ranks etc.

GW2 has the most inflexible grouping system that pigeon-holes everyone to group and play one way. There is only ONE way for guilds or player to group more than 5 people in game and it’s public. There is no system for guilds to form private squads for guild events or players to form private squads to control the number of players within the squad (orange swords over 25 people) for specific objectives. Sometimes you DON’T want to lead a whole zone, but you do want to use the Commander & Squad to coordinate better. Some of you are fine with the C&S system and that’s great. But why not make a flexible system that people can form however it works best for them.

I agree with your post CrimsonNeonite… there needs to either be a way to form private squads or guild squads where the pins are only visible to people currently in the squad. I understand ArenaNet’s philosophy that they want to make grouping in WvW accessible to everyone… but they need to realize that guilds and players have different ideas of how they like to group up and what is “fun” in WvW for them.

Running together in separate 5 person groups, marking one person who’s leading and using a 3rd party voice program is not an adequate substitution for a private squad.

Great source of frustration for many people.

Areann.1304:

Ahmrill.7512:

Xephens.3217:

For a game with the word “Guild” in it, it lacks some serious guild features.

Like being able to group more than 5 people privately for a guild event. Did it not ever cross the dev’s minds that guilds might like to coordinate events for just guild members? With the commander and squad system you end up having everyone in the zone join you.

Carefull, it almost sounds like you want guild raids. Ssssst, don’t step on the hornet nest ;-)

Nahh just want a way to coordinate multiple groups without having to have everyone in separate groups. Using the commander system is more effective for coordinating than simply running 2-3 seperate multiple groups using ventrilo and “driver” marking. But using the commander system for “stealth” or"havoc" forces is useless. Hard to make a stealth force when everyone in the zone is flocking to the pin.

Just frustrating not being able to use the only grouping system for more than 5 people due to the negative aspects if you are not actually trying to command the zone.

Xephens.3217:

For a game with the word “Guild” in it, it lacks some serious guild features.

Like being able to group more than 5 people privately for a guild event. Did it not ever cross the dev’s minds that guilds might like to coordinate events for just guild members? With the commander and squad system you end up having everyone in the zone join you.

So many simple things they could do to enhance the grouping and gaming experience. Just no where on the radar it seems for the devs. Guild UI and guild Grouping systems need a major overhaul….

100% agree.

Fantastic system used in many MMO’s I played. It allows guilds to maintain the size or “atmosphere” they enjoy and still have a large number of alliances members to group with and chat at times.

I can’t understand how this couldn’t be anything but positive.

Chaosx.2471:

4 months and several patches later, still no Guild Management tools added to the game. Once again, Arenanet, can you please let us know you hear us on this issue?

UI and grouping systems that enhance social interaction and coordination are a big part of MMO’s and guilds. For all the things that ArenaNet has done right in GW2, they are severely lacking on guild management and grouping tools.

The lack of a “Private” grouping system or private squad system for guild only events is a big frustration for many. At the very least they need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad. The C&S system is the only way to group more than 5 people….. and sometimes you don’t want to invite the entire server to guild events.

Well the Commander & Squad system is certainly NOT OP. It’s the worst multiple grouping system I’ve used in the last six years. No basic functions or abilities to make private squads. I don’t have to go into details… just search the ga-zillion threads complaining about the C&S system or lack of “guild commanders” for private guild events.

As far as one server with a commander and the other without…. .you can’t blame the system if you are on a server without coordination and leadership.

100% support this.

I don’t understand why we can’t have the same UI party options in WvW that we do in ANY PvE zone. Basic things in WvW like inviting people to a group, removing offline people and sending people a tell.

This far past launch and they haven’t even fixed stuff people noticed in BW1?

BrockMcCleery.9562:

First off, there is nothing ‘to fix’ with ‘zerging’. There will always be big fights in WvW, fights I and many others enjoy. But there should always be variety in WvW and there doesn’t seem to be enough.

100% Agree.

Zerging has it’s uses, but there is simply no in game support for anything else but a 5 man group. Medium sized forces of 2-4 groups can be very useful in WvW but we currently have no way to control how big a medium force gets with the current C&S system. You create a medium sized force to stay under the 25 person limit for WvW using the commander & squad system and it will become a zerg.

Give us better grouping support and perhaps we can get a better overall WvW system.

scootshoot.6583:

Aztex.4895:

Why do people zerg? .

There are strength in numbers. Higher Tiers also have greater number of active players in wvw, 24/7. Don’t like zergs or your computer can’t handle it, drop to a lower tier with less populace.

That’s certainly an option, but you also have guilds that like to have private guild nights. Having to switch servers to form a guild only event seems a poor solution when there are simple ways to fix it.

Gothir.3604:

Buffing some NPCs is not the right way to discourage zerging. There are enough NPCs in wvw as it is without adding more. They need a way to split up the huge groups by having multiple objectives that need to be held at the same time.

I agree with that. I feel WvW would be better in general when you have people spread out everywhere, you could expect combat anywhere. Right now it’s just a battle of zergs for the most part. We need better UI tools to group and coordinate forces and stop being forced to either zerg or 5 man it.

Talmor.9048:

I want to thank you A-Net for having either a 5 man group or a commander icon. It forces people to play with others

I’m glad you enjoy the current system. Unfortunately many of do not. Have the tools available to form squads any way you want and players will choose the system that works best. Even if they had private squads, there would always be public Zerg commanders in the zones. Now you would also have more medium sized forces spread out in the zone and have dynamic fighting everywhere..

LetoII.3782:

When does nord field more than a group? Mostly see you guys solo in wvw.

We have some set nights for guild runs. But often we just seem to have a group or two out. We prefer a roaming/Havoc style. Many of us are just getting frustrated with the inability to coordinate multiple groups as well as it could be. Yes, we mark a leader/driver and use 3rd party vent…. but a couple of simple changes to the C&S system would make grouping multiple private groups A LOT easier.

runeblade.7514:

Faux Sheaux.6179:

runeblade.7514:

Want a private group?

Form up parties and target the leader. It is a great way to identify leader while keeping groups private.

Did you even read OP?

Then there is zero reason for this thread then if he thought about it.

The point is the GW2 grouping systems are not adequate. MMO’s that came out 6 years ago had a far superior system for grouping…. for a modern MMO it seems GW2 doesn’t have a modern grouping system. The commander and squad system could can be slightly altered to fit everyone’s playstyle. Players could simply form it they way they need or want.

It’s just a lackluster and completely inflexible system for grouping.

Agree with everything… I’d even settle for a simple change.

- They allow commanders to hide the pin.
- They allow commanders to form squads.

Solution: Allow commanders to hide the pin AND still form squads.

Now we have a private squad system that can be used for guild members only or for creating specific sized forces in WvW. Is this really that hard to implement?

It’s really simple to create a system that works in every situation.

- They allow commanders to hide the pin.
- They allow commanders to form squads.

Solution: Allow commanders to hide the pin AND still form squads.

Now we have a private squad system that can be used for guild members only or for creating specific sized forces in WvW. Is this really that hard to implement?

Commander and squad is the worst system I’ve used in the last 5-6 years for grouping more than a single group. Re-vamping the system should be a priority…

Neeho.3859:

First they need to fix the Squad function. After this long, it’s obvious it isn’t a priority for them.

It’s really simple to create a system that works in every situation.

- They allow commanders to hide the pin.
- They allow commanders to form squads.

Solution: Allow commanders to hide the pin AND still form squads.

Now we have a private squad system that can be used for guild members only or for creating specific sized forces in WvW. Is this really that hard to implement?

These are all fantastic ideas! Arenanet…. people need a more flexible grouping system in the game, especially WvW.

Hordes of guilds are asking for “Guild Commanders” which would essentially be a private Squad system. Commanders could hide their pin from the public AND still retain all the functions of a squad. Invite only or even a password to join the squad. Only people currently in the private squad can see the commander pin.

That system above would give guilds and players the ability to group in the way that works best for them. Easy social grouping is a big part of MMO’s, and the current system doesn’t meet the needs of many players.

Jong.5937:

Commander tags could have different selectable modes:

- current “Zerg”/ “platoon” mode.
- non-Zerg, say “General” mode (as in rank), which means don’t Zerg on me, but I know what I’m talking about, listen to me if giving orders in a castle/keep etc. means multiple commanders can have a tag up, without confusing the Zerg.
- “patrol” mode – private group – tag only visible on map to those who join, but player name has special icon, similar to map completion icon – maybe limit size to 25-30

And while we are at it, give each of the above some identifier in chat, so people know who to really listen too.

Almost this exact idea was suggested in BW1. I’m not sure if Arenanet is aware of how frustrated people are with the lack of flexible grouping systems or if they just don’t feel it’s a priority. It almost feels like they want people to zerg and are not implementing any other system that takes away from that. I’m not going to tell any other player how to play… if they enjoy zerging then zerg away and have fun. But those players that don’t enjoy zerging are forced to use nothing when you can’t group more than 5 people in a private system.

thiagoperne.7340:

Fix zergs? What’s wrong with them? They are the heart of wvw, the reason we have guild wars, large scale battles making it epic fights. I don’t understand.

Wanna smaller fights? Ignore the zergs, go roaming, go havoc.
Wanna even smaller? Try spvp.

The game has everything for you. All you gotta do is play where better suits your playstyle.

How about arenanet giving us tools so we can actually group for smaller fights? Running together with separate multiple groups and having to use 3rd party voice as the only means of communication between the multiple groups is garbage. In this day of MMO’s not having a system to group more than 5 people (that is not a zerg) is ridiculous. There is simply no grouping support for players that don’t enjoy zerging.

They need to have a grouping system that is as flexible as the playstyles of their customers.

It’s so simple! The only grouping tool in the game is for zerging only. If we had a grouping system for medium sized forces on the battlefield…. we’d get more medium sized forces running around.

It’s not rocket science. We have no private grouping systems in GW2, and no way to control the number of people to stay under the 25 person limit for orange swords. The commander and squad system needs to be modified to allow private squads and we’d end up having more players spread on the battlefield and we’d have much more dynamic WvW.

sostronk.8167:

They mostly stack their guild and don’t pin up and move in a group of around 30 players whilst remaining independent from the zerg although merging with it from time to time.

I think what we need to make this a bit more successful is some development with the tools we can use. Particularly the current limitations on the commander pin.

Completely agree. If we actually had the tools to coordinate non zerg forces, we’d have a much more dynamic battlefield and more medium sized guilds forces would be doing this.

Malediktus.9250:

Zergs dont need fixing. Playing with 50-80 men and women is a good feeling.

That’s great if you enjoy that. But what about the players who prefer smaller coordinated forces for specific tasks. Stealth capping, havoc force behind lines under 25 players or guilds who wish to do private WvW together. They need to have the tools to allow flexible squad sizes or private for events.

If you have over 5 people you are expected to zerg it using the in game systems of GW2. There is simply no in game support for anything else. At the very least they need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain the functions of a squad. This would allow players to form squads of any size or makeup. It would also remove the “bad commanders” who are not leading, but simply trying to coordinate a couple grps together.

If we actually had the tools to form something OTHER than a zerg…. perhaps that would help.

runeblade.7514:

Want a private group?

Form up parties and target the leader. It is a great way to identify leader while keeping groups private.

That’s what we do…. simply because there is no other choice in game for GW2. As I mentioned in the OP, we have to make multiple 5 person groups and try to stay together as best we can. This usually involves a 3rd party voice program and marking a leader/driver for the groups. The downside is once you hit an enemy force the individual groups start marking targets and if you need to retreat or rally it’s hard to find the leader/driver again to mark him.

We’ve used the commander and squad system for running private guild WvW and we’ve used the separate 5 person groups in 3rd party voice and marking leader for private guild WvW. The commander and squad system was far superior for coordinating in game and regrouping. As well as having a visual marker, you can set rally points everyone can see and use a separate chat channel for anyone not in the 3rd party voice program.

The problem with flagging the commander pin is it no longer becomes a private guild event or medium size havoc force… you are inviting everyone in the zone. Hence the need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad…. it can be used for ANY situation with any number of people.

ktith.6197:

I second this. But, not only to commanders as I think you’ve kinda stated here. Give commanders the full abilities of their “squads” and a larger number for which they can have grouped up. Give others the ability to form their own groups as well (like “raids” from other MMOs). This will give those without voice comms or other means of communication to give “commands” in a chat that only that group sees….creating “tactical” groups.

They need to realize players and guilds have a full range of playstyles and what those guilds and players consider “fun”. Having only a single in-game grouping system for more than 5 people that gives no control over the number of people in it or the makeup of the forces just doesn’t work for some people. Some players and guilds don’t enjoy zerging but there is no effective way to form medium size forces for under 25 players.

Having 4-5 separate groups running beside each in WvW with hopefully everyone in 3rd party voice program is not an “Effective grouping system”.

Currently in GW2 we have two ways for players to group in WvW and PvE. You either form multiple 5 man groups and run together or use the commander and squad system using the commander pin as a visual point to rally.

Running with multiple 5 man groups and trying to coordinate with a 3rd party voice program is the only viable way to form “private” forces in WvW. This leads to people getting scattered at times and is not as effective when you have a “visual” icon on the mini map for groups to rally on.

Using the commander and squad system certainly helps players see where the commander is but you lose complete control over the number of players and makeup of your forces. It’s completely inflexible for forming private guild squads or specialty havoc forces that are trying to stay under the 25 person limit to prevent orange swords.

They need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad… this is the simplest way to allow guilds and players to group they way the want. It’s time….

Areann.1304:

Yeah squad chat maybe. I would prefer commander tag with an option to only be visible for the guild members

We’ve been asking for this since BW1…. a private grouping system for more than 5 people. The easiest thing would be to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad. It can now be used for private guild events and specialty forces in WvW.

If we actually had an option in game to create medium size forces with some control over the size and makeup… perhaps we wouldn’t have so many people flocking to a commander pin in WvW and deal with the zergs. This seems like a no brainer to me and I can’t understand why it’s not be added.

Daecollo.9578:

Is there a way to make incentive not to zerg up?

They zerg because “there is no other way in game to group more than 5 people except with the commander and squad system.”

If we actually had an option in game to create medium size forces with some control over the size and makeup… perhaps we wouldn’t have so many people flocking to a commander pin.

They need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad…. that would reduce zergs and spread players out more on the maps.

They zerg because “there is no other way in game to group more than 5 people except with the commander and squad system.”

If we actually had an option in game to create medium size forces with some control over the size and makeup… perhaps we wouldn’t have so many people flocking to a commander pin.

They need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad…. that would reduce zergs.

Same, unable to remove the fire shield and ran out of time. Also had a random person jump in and they wouldn’t stop attacking with caused us to fail a few times. Horrible encounter overall or it’s bugged.

Horrible encounter and they need to tweak the mechanics.

This needs addressed. Something is not working as intended.

I’m starting to think the mob is bugged… unable to knock him out of the shield even with not combat boon strips and knockbacks.

Also, we always get random people joining in and they keep attacking even when asked to stop…. worst GW2 bounty encounter we’ve done.

Beachead.4127:

13. A more robust commander tab with more options

14. Guild commanders that only show up to other guildies on the map. Our guild sometimes wants to remain small in wvw and it helps to follow your guild commander but then you end up with a lot of pugs on your tail.

This is what bothers me the most. Simple thing to fix and something people have been asking for the since the first beta weekend. A proper grouping system that has the flexibility to meet all guilds and player styles. In GW2 you either have a 5 person group or a zerg…. that’s it. Flagging a commander pin for our 2-3 groups doing guild WvW night turns into a zerg….. when we’re just trying to do some private guild stuff.

They need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad. This way guilds can make private squads and have some control over the amount of people for smaller havoc forces or groups trying to stay under the 25 person limit for orange swords.

IMO it’s the worse grouping system I’ve used in the last 5 years for anything over a group.

Part of the problem Xsorus is the complete lack of grouping system. If you want to run a small force or 2-4 groups you simply have no in-game option. Using a commander and squad system to do small/medium private force is impossible.

If they actually had in game grouping tools for players and guilds to set up for private grouping perhaps we’d actually have smaller sized forces running around. Currently it’s either a 5 man or a zerg.

The commander and squad system is very disappointing. It lacks the features and flexibility that many guilds and players need. It’s sad because there is no other way to group more than 5 people in GW2 and we’re forced to use it or have 3-4 groups all running separately beside each other.

They need a way for commander’s to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad…. basically a private grouping system. Single biggest frustration for me is the lack of effective grouping systems in GW2.

How about this for starters…. a way for players or guild members to group privately.

Not a Revelation here folks been in MMO’s for years, but unfortunately arenanet makes it difficult to group more than 5 people or multiple groups. We have that commander and squad system…. which is completely useless for forming private or specific types of forces as it basically invites everyone on the server when you activate it.

They need a way to form private squads or some other grouping system.

Great idea and it’s been suggested a ton of times. There needs to be a way to form private guild or forces without popping a commander zerg magnet.

GW2 needs a flexible grouping system to meet all players needs and playstyles.

Why not make a grouping system worth buying with anything. The C&S system is the worst multiple grouping system I’ve used in 5 years. There is simply no way in game to organize more than 5 people unless you are zerging it.

They need to make the system more flexible before changing how you get it.

There is simply NO way to form private or guild forces…. it’s a terrible design. What’s even more terrible is people have been asking for a more enhanced and flexible system since BW1 and no action.

I mean it’s not like social grouping and interaction are important in an MMO…

Great suggestion and it’s been suggested in some form dozens of times since BW1.

Arenanet… for doing so many things right in the game you dropped the ball on grouping systems. There is simply no flexibility to use the commander and squads for anything other than leading a zerg. If you had some other system to allow guilds or multiple groups to form private forces then it wouldn’t be an issue.

Please give players the tools to form units and social groups depending on playstyles and needs. It’s extremely frustrating to not be able to group more than 5 people effectively.

Ungood.3054:

Hummm, why did you remove this from your quoted part?

Ungood.3054:

The idea of more tools for Commanders – Yes Please

As it seems we agree.

Missed that sorry, and yes we both agree the commander and squad system in it’s current form needs a huge upgrade. I’m going as far as saying it sucks as the only grouping system for more than 5 people and I still can’t believe they haven’t changed anything significant since BWE’s.

This is just my opinion, but the commander and squad is the worst multiple grouping system I’ve used in the last 5 years and I’ve played most major MMO’s.

Simplest fix is allow people to hide the commander pin to people only in a squad and retain all the functions. Currently if you hide the pin it dissolves the squad.

Sometimes you simply have more than 5 people or multiple groups trying to coordinate privately or doing something specific. Until Arenanet gives us some way to group over 5 people that is NOT a zerg magnet… people will use it for things other than actually leading the zone and zerg.

I find the in-game multiple grouping system in GW2 to be the worst in the last 5 MMO’s I’ve played. They need to modify the grouping system to be used for any size forces and for private guild squads if needed. Hiding the commander pin AND still retaining all the functions of a squad would be a good start.

Ungood.3054:

I hate to say it, but this has “bad idea” written all over it. It punishes the pug, and alienates the casual WvW player, which is not what Anet wants with the WvW scene.

WvW is what it is like, because it lets anyone hop on a BL and follow a commander. That is a good thing in the sense that it gives community.

Making WvW more exclusive – No thanks.

In warhammer….someone almost always had a public warband up. I’m sure this wouldn’t change in GW2 either…. there is a need for a public Squads and there would always be one running IMO.. I think the point the OP is making, and which I agree with, is the complete lack of tools to organize for anything else BUT a zerg.

I’m not going to tell anyone else how to play or organize their guild or friends in GW2, but the lack of options basically forces us to follow one inflexible system. Organizing and grouping in GW2 should be easy and fit ALL peoples playstyles.

Serious upgrades are needed with the current tools for GW2.

Shameful we don’t have this…