Guild Wars 2

If there was actually a way to form forces OTHER than just 5 man groups or massive zergs it would be a much more dynamic WvW. Think about it, lots of medium sized forces would spread the fighting out over more of the zones. A zerg can only be in one place at a time.

Without any control over a force size or makeup we’ll never know. I’m talking about a decent in-game way to make private forces. Running multiple 5 man groups together with only a 3rd party vent to communicate is not a decent system for creating medium forces. You need a way to create private squads or something similiar for guild forces or keeping the squad under 25 people.

The Goat.1940:

still waiting for the official response to this one!

I’d like to see this emplemented as well to make it easier for the WvW dev’s to actually see relevant suggestions all in one place. I’m sure they don’t want to have to dig through 6 pages of PvE suggestions to find the one WvW one.

PariahX.6970:

There have been a ton of great ideas on how to improve commander squad functions all over these boards and subsequently moved to the suggestion forums so hopefully you’ve got people keeping an eye on that sort of stuff since I would hate to see you guys go through a lot of time and effort to give players something totally the opposite of what is needed.

Please don’t let this go to Ahmrill’s head as he has been hounding on this issue for quite awhile now.

Well put Pariah! And yes I’ve felt very strongly about flexible grouping systems and have been very persistent on these forums. If the dev team implements some form of private grouping system or revamped C&S system…. I promise I’ll go away!

That’s got to be some kind of incentive to implement private grouping systems.

Watching zerg combat reminds me that it’s the only way to group in-game if you have over five people. Why do people zerg…. there is no other effective option atm.

They need a way for multiple groups and medium sized forces to organize without inviting every single person in the zone to flock to your pin.

Bovinity.8610:

I don’t quite understand how UI issues actually keep people from forming whatever size groups they need in WvW. Never seems to have been a problem from where I’m sitting.

I guess that depends what gives you enjoyment and what is “fun” to you or your guild members / friends. Most of our guild and friends do not enjoy “zerging” we enjoy more focused and smaller combat in WvW. We also often have more than 5 people and multiple groups, this leaves us with two options:

A) Pin up and create a squad. The only problem is our friends are looking for smaller fights and everyone flocks to the pin and expects you to lead. This is the opposite of what we enjoy doing. We enjoy a havoc force of multiple groups that uses speed and ambushing tactics…. hard to do effectively when a extra 40 random people join you.

B) Form multiple seperate groups and run together. Mark a “driver” with a bullseye to follow and require everyone to use a 3rd party voice program to coordinate. This is what we end up doing and it’s not nearly as effective as a visual commander pin and squad system with dedicated chat channel.

Option B is the only realistic way to group if you enjoy running multiple group in GW2. For a modern day MMO it’s horribly ineffective and clunky. There is no reason they can’t make some simple changes and allow players to use the grouping system that works best.

Allowing players to hide the commander pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad would be the easiest. Players can now create public or Private squads to be used for whatever way works best and gives them enjoyment.

Gab Superstar.4059:

No. If they did that then casuals would no longer be attracted to WvW and it would die / Arena Net loses revenue.

I have to disagree.

In the other MMO’s I’ve played involving massive world PvP this was never an issue. DAOC, Warhammer…. always had a public battlegroup or warband for casual players to join.

In my experience…..

There was ALWAYS a public or open grouping system available for casual players to join… even when private grouping systems were available.

Servers or teams know that coordination and organization are key to being successful, and having a place for casual PvP players to join is important. Implementing an option for “private” squads in GW2 will still allow casual players to join WvW easily as public commanders will always be present.

The LACK of flexible grouping systems in GW2 is one of it’s greatest drawbacks. It’s a one trick pony atm.

Parktou.4263:

ZaneStriker.2836:

No one agrees that we need a real raid/warband UI? Wow.

Too many randoms to make this type of thing work, and if you want organized groups just get everyone to hop on raidcall/teamspeak/skype or whatever and just do it that way.

Not sayin it wouldn’t be nice, but there are far more pressing matters they could be working on right now. :/

I have to disagree on that. Running seperate groups of five people, marking a “driver” with a bullseye and forcing people to use a 3rd party voice program as the only way in game to organize a private force is sad.

Everyone has a different idea of what is “Fun” or what guilds and players enjoy doing. If some people enjoy running in a zerg, or running with only 5 people…. no problem, the tools are there in the game.

If someone enjoys running close knit multipe groups with just your guild or alliance where stealth and speed are desired…. well too bad. I don’t see how being able to organize and group socially and effectively in GW2 cannot be a pressing matter.

Well here is a good example of lost WvW suggestions. A private message was sent:

A moderator moved a message you posted to the forum ‘Suggestions’ with the reason:
Thread titled [Command Tag Colors] has been moved to subforum “Suggestions”.

I went to the suggestions forums and did a search for “Command Tag Colors” and got 0 results. Manually searching for the post found in on Page 6 of the suggestion forums 24 hours after it had been moved.

WvW suggestions are quickly lost in the massive PvE suggestions and are probably not read by the WvW dev team. A WvW suggestion forum is needed badly… this particular post is proof.

A recent post from Devon Carter ackowledged the lack in useful functionality of the C&S system with changes coming.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Commander-squad-not-working/page/2#post2240974

I certianly hope that they really listen to player feedback and make worth while changes. Foremost is the ability to form “private” squads or some other grouping system for guilds to do private events when we have more than 5 people.

We need to have the tools to group in the way that works best for guilds and players.

Great idea to add a visual point in the middle of battle or terrain.

DevonCarver.5370:

Upgrading the commander system and UI is on our goal list. It’s a complicated task, requiring lots of resources however, which means it isn’t going to happen overnight. Believe me though, I find our commander system almost entirely lacking in useful functionality.

Devon,

I’m truly glad to see this post, and glad to finally see a dev actually post it. This is how our guild has felt since BW1. It’s been extremely frustrating to group the way we want due to the limitations with GW2’s grouping systems.

I understand ArenaNet’s philosophy of making WvW accessible to casual players and perhaps effected the lack of “private” squads. I also hope the dev team seriously considerers revisting this philosophy as it is a great source of frustration for close knit guilds who enjoy running with more than 5 people. Many in our guild are Veteran PvP players and have spent many years playing large scale PvP MMO’s. In all those games that had a private Raid/Warband/Battlegroup system one thing was always the same.

“There was ALWAYS a public or open grouping system available for casual players to join… even when private grouping systems were available.”

Servers or teams know that coordination and organization are key to being successful, and having a place for casual PvP players to join is important. Implementing an option for “private” squads in GW2 will still allow casual players to join WvW easily as public commanders will always be present.

Whatever changes are being done to the C&S system, I urge you to have the option to create “private” squads of some form so 2-4 groups can coordinate. A way for commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad. Running 2-3 seperate groups in WvW, marking a “driver” with a bullseye and using 3rd party voice chat to communicate is a frustrating way for our guild.

Please allow the tools for players to coordinate in the way that works best for them. Some type of private grouping system is desperately needed.

Thanks!

This has been suggested a ZILLION times since BW1…. but apparently basic grouping is not important. I’m stunned at the lack of ability to group the way you want in a modern day MMO.

At the very least they need to allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad. This way guilds and players can form private squads to use they way that works best for them.

ZaneStriker.2836:

No one agrees that we need a real raid/warband UI? Wow.

I’ve been advocating this since BW1….

Still any news for commander changes from that Dev post?

Urrid.4593:

I posted a similar thread. It was moved to the suggestions recycling bin.

+1 we need colors and a public/private toggle for tags. DESPERATELY.

Hey Arenenet… EXACTLY what Urrid said. That’s what players want badly!!!

I’ll take any decent changes that PLAYERS ACTUALLY WANT at this point.

Urrid.4593:

Ahmrill.7512:

Only a WvW player still keeps posting suggestions about revamping the Commander and squad system…. and actually thinks they might do it soon.

Only a WvW player feels the sting in this.

Only a WvWer knows that one simple change like this would add a whole new lease on life for WvW.

Only a WvW player knows the common logic in this and hopes the Devs see logic too.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

would it be ironic if this gets moved to suggestion forum?

Yes, yes it would….

Only a WvW player still keeps posting suggestions about revamping the Commander and squad system…. and actually thinks they might do it soon.

Elochai.1280:

I have made a few suggestion topics too and agree there should be a wvw suggestion forum. They get buried way to quick in the general suggestions sub forum. WvW just don’t go there either. There is too much pve junk to sort through.

WvW suggestion need to get to the people that effect WvW changes. Right now posting a WvW suggestions in the general suggestion forums will see it buried very quickly. Give it an hour and it will be a few pages back lost between requests for new backpack models and fluffy rabbit slipper models.

meep.2601:

don’t worry guys, the new group/squad system is 8 MONTHS in the works, so it will be amazing!!

I just hope it’s actually what players want…. an easy way to group with guild members or friends for private events.

Talia.7412:

They should use 8-12 man teams like gw1

Just have a /private option for the commander and Squad system seems to be the easiest way.

- Public option works just the way it is now.

- Private options allow you to create a squad for WHATEVER number of people you want. People can request to join or could be invited.

Contiguous.1345:

The command structure (or lack of it it) in WvW is this game’s most abysmal failing.

It should be priority #1 but instead we get WXP ranks, which also show little actual thought – I mean ‘bronze recruit’>‘legend’ wtf?.

It should be easy to group and organize with your guild for private events or guild WvW runs. It is anything but with the current system.

Just because you want to group with more than 5 people doesn’t mean you want to be a commander and lead the whole zone.

nanker.3085:

This. So much this. It is so frustrating that we have to stop in the middle of ops to make sure groups get split when that 11th or 16th or 21st person joins. ANet could really improve the organizational aspect of WvW.

It shouldn’t be this difficult to organize small private or guild forces in a modern MMO.

Azylynne.9487:

This is a great idea… love the different colored tags… also what would be nice is an Private/Public commander toggle… so those that wish to run private groups (that are not necessarily epic zerg size), like say a guild, can do so… allowing their players to more easily gather up on their smaller group commander… without the commander tag confusing other players on the map. That would be a great “small step” implementation.

It seems like a no brainer to me, unless there are some kind of technical issues, it should have been in the game long ago.

Luthan.5236:

They should at least make a commander party(squad) UI. Tried to join a squad 1 time and there is absolutely no reason to join… other than being able to see the squad chat(which is barely used) there is no other advantage… and you can see the commander icon without having joined the squad.

I’d prefer if there was some small UI showing names or something like that(even if there are a lot of names… maybe with scrollbar) – like a real normal party.

---

Also it should show all the green dots for all the people of your server in WvW on the whole map… not only people nearby. Would help much more to just look at the map without asking where people are(if there is no commander and you don’t know where to go).

The Warband system used in Warhammer Online was awesome. Players and guilds could customize it for ANY possible social grouping setup. Guild grouping, Private alliance grouping or have it public so anyone can join. It was a great system.

We don’t even an entire new grouping system. Even simple changes to the C&S system could greatly enhance social grouping in GW2.

- Allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain all the functions of a squad.
- Show current squad member dots with a unique color.
- Joining a commander turns his pin GOLD, all other commander pins will still be visible as BLUE.

Those three changes would be huge.

Azylynne.9487:

Ahm, your only “current” solution mentioned… as we’ve experienced, is greatly inadequate. In this day and age of computer gaming, I would expect vastly superior tools (inherent to the game) to what we had in say, DAOC… instead, we are relying on 3rd party VOIP, to coordinate our guildies…in WvW, without the use of a Commander pin (so as not to confuse other server mates or draw players away from our server commanders).

I really hope we have so Devs reading this and they understand how difficult it is for some players and guilds to organize they way they like. The solutions players have to come up with due to the lack of in game grouping systems is frustrating.

Whatever changes come to the C&S system need to be flexible to meet all types of force sizes. Give us the tools and the players will use the ones that work best for them.

Devon.9061:

The reason a lot of people don’t use commander is because the people in the squad don’t show up in the party. All it does is 1)separate chat 2)only show that commander 3)easier supply check.

I would love to be able to have a bigger party option. Raid tab maybe? In Spvp I am able to see up to 8-10 people in my party the same should be for WvW. A number of times we always have that odd man out because all the parties are full. I can’t say how many times Ive been told come to me and I’m like “where the bloody kitten is that??” Because I’m not in their party/able to see guildies unless they are close to me.

Totally agree Devon. It’s just so darn difficult to organize multiple 5 man groups for medium size forces. Visual pins like the commander have really help in game, but we need something for private or guild groups.

PariahX.6970:

you have been a very busy boy my commander ~^ hope it pays off in good ways.

Hope so. Just hope they realize how frustrated players are at the inability to group with friends in an easy and flexible manner.

Azylynne.9487:

Totally am supporting the movement to improve the Commander pin. Digging up these old threads sadly reminds me that it unfortunately may not be a priority for ANet… but hopefully, it’ll show them that it is on the forefront of what we, the WvW community, would like improved.

All we can do is hope they have actually been reading ALL the posts about the C&S grouping system and realize how frustrated and unhappy people are.

Great post and fully agree. We just don’t have the flexible grouping options in GW2 that a modern MMO should have.

Cinnex.6139:

- Group sizes – This is a major deal breaker. 5 people in a group is just not enough in WvW. The amount of people per party needs to be increased. This way people can find each other on the map easier and see each others health as well. A system similar to Warhammer Online’s would be great. (Warbands were 4, 6 man groups placed together to form a 24 man group that could see the locations and health levels of others in the “group”) This is how squads should have been implemented. As of right now squads are sorely lacking and its because you can’t see the health and locations of other players in your squad.

I Honestly thought something would have been done by now from all the player feedback about grouping systems. It’s just feels clunky and we’re force to group ONE way if we have over 5 people.

morrolan.9608

I’m sure most players agree in fact its something thats been asked for almost since the game launched, but to no avail, and TBH I doubt its on a short term radar at anet.

IMHO it was a clear oversight in the games design and should have been a bigger priority than even say the siege changes. The commander functionality is clearly totally insufficient for this purpose.

Plus it would be useful in PvE as well for large scale guild events.

They already have the C&S system…. just allow commanders to hide the pin AND still retain the functions of a squad. Now you have a system that that can be used for any number of players for any use. I don’t understand how this doesn’t make sense to everyone.

Musty.3148:

Even as fail as Warhammer is/was it’s warband system was Waaaaay better than this one.

It’s one thing they got right, and I’d love to see this flexibility to group in GW2.

Sabull.5670:

I’m really of the opinion that GW2 w3 needed that guidance. A set number, by the squad size and proper private squad frames, lets say 25, that guilds would have started to work around as a goal. This would have resulted in much different wvw experience than it is atm.

It certainly would have given us a different and more dynamic WvW experience.

Opc.4718:

Digging up a 4 month old thread, still no progress on this front xD

Now an 8 month post with no progress.

Karicus.8356:

Once we did get a few guildies all in wvw at the same time, 15 of us, trouble is we had to have three groups of 5, we were all using vent but it was extremely difficult to see where everyone was in order to make an informed decision as to where to go. It wasnt impossible but was harder than say Warhammer Online.

Please Anet allow for 20 man ‘warband’ warband style groups.

That pretty much sums up how our guild feels.

insanemaniac.2456:

well nothing has changed so all the old issues are still pretty relevant…

Yes, still relevant and still no significant changes.

tbox.2307:

Serious they need to do this like yesterday.

Well that’s not gonna happen. This post was started 9 months ago and there still haven’t been any significant changes to the C&S system. This is something people are unhappy with and STILL relevant.

Salamol.7963:

I wish there were more Commander types… like a Guild Commander, 20 people in the squad at a cost of 50G (or unlockable @ War level 5). Not visible by the entire server, just members of your guild… I can’t see my guild ever having more than 15 in our WvW group and tbh I don’t want to be leading dozens of randoms around.

That’s it… some people simply like running with 10-15 people or guild members, and don’t want to LEAD dozens of people around. It’s STILL impossible to do that effectively in-game.

Player One.4932:

Yeah, when I looked at the party UI and Squad UI, I thought it was 1998 again.

That pretty much sums it up. Lack of flexible grouping systems in GW2 in this day of MMO’s is shocking.

I did a search in the suggestion forums for “commander” and couldn’t even find a post I made 5 months ago. Searching only brings a maximum 50 page result. Why even have WvW suggestion’s if WvW related suggestions are buried under PvE ones and difficult to retrieve.

WvW is the heart and soul of many players, to bad we don’t have the support.

Completely agree more focus is needed in a grouping system that meets all players and guilds grouping styles. The easiest solution would be for commanders to be able to create guild or private squads which could be used for ANY type of player numbers or uses.

Lack of flexible grouping systems for players is not adequate. They need to have private squads.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Quite often I see our server forces scattered when a commander isn’t tagged up or on the field. Lets say someone who doesn’t have a commander tag wants to help lead folks on a more focused approach. What are their options outside of just grouping up?
Outside of a commander, what other tools for leadership does a player have in GW2?

Are there simple things like some sort of marker like the commander tag so that people, particularly pugs, can keep track of their leader? I mean other than the Target reticule?

I’ve played massive pvp games in the past and present that do a really good job of making it easy for players coming into a zone to get grouped up with someone willing to take lead and that person taking the lead having some basic tools to help. Are there tools like that in the game and I’m just unaware of them?

Unfortunately we don’t currently have a flexible grouping system for GW2. You can only form two types of groups in WvW…. either a 5 person group or a Commander pin zerg.

Trying to create a specific force of players for ambushing, hit and run’s or general havoc are difficult when you have no control over the number of players with you. There is also no support for guild only forces over 5 people.

The only solution possible is to create multiple 5 person groups, try and run together by marking a “driver” and having to use a 3rd party voice program to communicate as there is no dedicated chat channel for the private force. This is not an adequate option for many of us.

Sirendor.1394:

Upon reading this, I think following options would allow better coordination and make less zerging:
- Make a cap on the number of players who can join a squad. 20 seems reasonable
- Add extra squad interfaces, and tools:

• The commander has an option to see the people in his squad in a new “Squad” interface"
• The Squad interface shows the number of supplies of each of the people in squad, shows the guild tag and the profession of the player, aswell as the name.
• Squad members can also open this squad interface to see the other guys in it. Commanders have the additional option to see other squads than theirs on the map.
• People in squad now have yellow names instead of green ones (such as gold names for guilds).

- Commanders can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not a member of their guild. This allows for covert guild operations.
- Commander can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not already in the squad.
- To join a squad, your “joining” must be accepted by the commander.

Reducing zergs:
- Less blobs, because squads only amount to 20 people.
- Less people running to the command tag (cause it can be hidden)

I agree with everything there except for:

" Make a cap on the number of players who can join a squad. 20 seems reasonable."

There should be no cap on a squad size, but just allow them to be “locked” or “Private”. If a commander wants it public, as many people can join. If a commander “locks” a squad he can control the amount of people that works for whatever he/she have planned. It can be guild only, or under 25 players to avoid crossed swords… how ever they want to set it up.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Dominura.3657:

1. To have wvw ‘skills/traits’ shared on all characters in the same account
2. Underwater towers/keeps (quaggans FTWFTWF TW)
3. Fix stupid skill lag
4. To be able to see wvw level/tile of server mates. #BRAGGING RIGHTS
5. Being able to rally off pets
6. Motion sensors that blink on mini map when an enemy runs over them, can be removed with a detector.
7. Screw the zoom hackers
8. Single use booby traps (Fire,caltrops etc). Single use, cannot be refreshed
9. Multi player vehicles (EG dredge transporter)
10. Get rid of dead enemy players names. Putting mouse over them makes it visible again.

Confessionbear: I really like arrow carts

+1

+2!

So many fantastic suggestions I’ve seen since GW2 release and I can’t even find half of them by doing a search. The commander and squad system needs a big overhaul and be flexible enough to be used for any purpose…. Not just zerging.

sostronk.8167:

These discussions about buffs from a commander, they sound cool, but aren’t they just going to promote zerging?

I don’t think it should be about zerging or not zerging, but having a system to allow all forms of grouping. Let guilds and players decide HOW they want to group.

It’s like ordering a coffee…. you are only allowed to buy a small coffee or extra large one. GW2 grouping systems offer nothing but a 5 man group or a Zerg. They need a way for medium sized guild or private squads to be created.

Just curious if there is any API sites that can show an updated WvW score that can be added to a basic HTML widget. I’m not the most skilled when it comes to website setup and our guild uses ENJIN web hosting. I can certainly add an Iframe or HTML, and was wondering if there was anything out there to work with.

Just a small basic overview showing the servers matched, total score and current points for the next tick.