Guild Wars 2

Issues.5789:

AikijinX.6258:

Yes the trick shot says .25 activation time but indeed it is .95.

Wow.. I didn’t even know that’ that’s a massive difference..

No sarcastic remarks, this thread isn’t for that.

Close to everything will be resolved, just give them time.

ZenonSeth.5739:

Trick shot is indeed broken.
There are also a couple of other Thief skills that have similarly broken activation times.
I have made a bug thread, I think it would help if more people posted there to keep it alive and bring to dev’s attention.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Thief-Vital-Shot-and-Trick-Shot-Cast-Time/first

I have a thread open already go and take a look. “Name the useless thief mechanics”

Yes the trick shot says .25 activation time but indeed it is .95.

Dasorine.1964:

Well with my way the boss would only reset if you both stayed stealth for 3 seconds or longer and such.

Though could amend it to only remove you from the list if your the bottom of the list or such, but really if your down to 2 people against a boss and you decide to hide in shadow refuge for a long time the boss SHOULD reset.

Very much agreed. Because that is just a simple exploitable luxary for Thieves to have.

DanH.5879:

putting shadowrefuge on you and 2 ppl, and the rest dead …. boss reset ?
i would better keep my aggro, 10x

I am mainly talking in terms of WvW. But you did bring up a good point.

Yeah my apologies. I was abit unclear.

• Revert aggro table for when in stealth.

What was silly was no one taking into consideration how bad the down state skills are then doing this change with aggro table.
If our blink (2) increased by 50-100ft it wouldn’t be as bad.
Then our (3) skill which in (my belief) is a useless mechanic, due to the fact that the stealth is 2 seconds, 3 when traited. But by then you’d half way be dead, while the user is no where in sight, but their pet is there to finish you off.

*How would you feel about reverting the aggro table in WvW/Pve?
*Do you feel like it makes sense to be in down state half way across the map, and still get potential aggro from mobs?
*Should we or should we not take in to consideration that if aggro table is reverted rangers primarily and necromancers(minion mancers) will have a hard time trailing us?

I will try to make contact with another staff, depending on feedback.

Rejoice, Anet decided to revert 4s back to 3s on reveal stealth debuff with pve and WvW. Say it with me.
“Thank you Anet”

Next goal they need to accomplish will be trying to revert the aggro table, but I am aware how much of a hit rangers/mesmers/necromancers. Will take a hit from it in WvW, but quite honestly it just seems a bit too unbalanced.

Starbird.4029:

P/P is just craptactular overall. It’s autoattack is a condition and it’s main dps is normal. 2 of it’s shots are basically useless due to the way resources work and the defensive tool takes so much initiative that you will be autoattacking only.

Much agreed~~

Thanks for the input ANET staff has been notified and talked to.

7 Words. It’s not the Thief, It’s the User.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

AikijinX.6258:

My apologies i was at work, but would you like me to give you a summary of what you should get, or go in depth?

The requests details and I’m curious about your build also so it’s upto you how deep you want to go.

You’re from TC, How about you and I party up in game right now and I can show you. I’m from Kaineng.

IGN:Aikijinx

My apologies i was at work, but would you like me to give you a summary of what you should get, or go in depth?

KingZ.2314:

Thanks. Tell the testing staff (who will test thief in game): dont cry when party kick you out. lol.

AikijinX.6258:

So from all of what I am hearing, Essentially what everyone is saying is the Thief is a broken class that needs a lot of attention from Anet staff that ACTUALLY play a Thief as a regular.

You can look around and see other classes have broken mechanics as well, but Thief in total takes the prize.

Thank you again for this Feedback everyone. I’ll be contacting a friend to get in touch with one of the staff in Arenanet.

Will do mate

10/30/20/0/10

So from all of what I am hearing, Essentially what everyone is saying is the Thief is a broken class that needs a lot of attention from Anet staff that ACTUALLY play a Thief as a regular.

You can look around and see other classes have broken mechanics as well, but Thief in total takes the prize.

Thank you again for this Feedback everyone. I’ll be contacting a friend to get in touch with one of the staff in Arenanet.

I have to thank everyone for inputting their feedback, and from their side of the spectrum, the near to useless skills/utilities/etc. I do hope ArenaNet takes a look into this thread. You guys have given really course and on track feedback.

I would put some other minor things on the list, but i’d like to hear from more of you.

Thank you again, You guys make the Thief Community.

I would like to hear from everyone a list of Buggy, or Useless Thief Mechanics (Utility skills, Traited skills, Initiative skills(1-5) etc)

This will properly give Arena Net an idea of what to do/change with Thief if any.

Please take time out of your day to add input.

Try Glass build. D/P: 30/30/0/0/10 or 25/30/0/0/15
Or a build that I have right now. 10/30/20/0/10 (you’ll have the dmg and semi tank together.) All of those are for D/P of course.

Selver.1307:

I feel thief is in a unique spot.

much more in any one direction and we will start to really feel a sting, or be a little brawny. it’s a tight rope we walk, but it’s that agility we use in combat to sustain the thrill of playing a thief.

without our fluid playstyle, which I feel we still have (though I can see people who got a chance to land a cnd every 3.25s after a backstab might have gotten a little roughed up having to throw in a little more aa chain), I doubt I would be here. The initiative system is brilliant, if not a rehash of similar mechanics in other games (for a similar class). The active evades tied onto weapons, and utilities is probably one of my favorite things.

all that being said we are just squishy as all hell. no protection access unless stolen – which instead of hating on boons, I think we should just have more ways to steal them and spread them, or keep them to ourselves, whichever – nice vigor uptime if traited for it, but vigor only goes so far when still your mistakes bear their fangs much quicker than for other classes.

the ele missed d/d fire3? like way off didnt even set his target on fire and still missed with his fire5 anyway? oh well, tactful dancing around in attunements for 20 seconds and he’s ready to try again, and probably at more health than when he tried the first time.

mesmer totally botched shatter? target wasnt even there when it went off? dodge, utility F4, kite, etc etc etc, it’s ready again soon enough.

Mistime stealburst/cnd/daggerswitch/backstab/aa/whatever, we can dance around for quite a while, but our damage output is generally not to grand on the defensive and regaining footing for the offensive again is much more difficult without a HARD reset of the fight (you drop combat and wait on all your skills), then that wasn’t really a fight now was it?

ugh. I still think we are fine, but that could be the bias. I am just not able to play other classes. the ele was the closest, but it still didn’t have the thrill.

Way to go Thieves!

Thank you for the feedback, I don’t quite understand the point at what you’re making, but I still appreciate your time.

P.S I hope you got some good video shots of us in WvW. It was so coincidental i meet one of my re-pliers on forums.

Anymore feedback from fellow thieves?

Void.4239:

stof.9341:

My necro stays on the caltrops and transfers the bleed to you. Win/win situation for him :p

:D hate when they do that ,
i have to blow my shadowstepreturn, or i have to run away and hope i dont die of my own bleeds :p.
perfect counter against any condition build

I LOL when i get killed b my Bleeds with transfer condition necro skiill. I’m like “You Clever kitten” haha

Aberrant.6749:

The reason thieves (and mesmers) are complained about so much is that they don’t understand what’s going on. These two classes in particular punish the other players the most for not understanding their opponent. To a new player stealth seems like total information denial/invulnerability… and it seems impossible to tell the real mesmer from the clones… and massive complaints from ignorant players ensue.

More experienced players will be able to easily predict the one trick pony thief and tell which one is the real mesmer instantly.

Thief is too FOOS… they can do their one trick based upon whatever weapon set they are using. This makes them extremely predictable. I constantly use c&d to stealth off of other already stealthed thieves because it’s that obvious where they’ll be and what they’ll be doing.

Yeah I am also in agreement with this. To sum it all up, people should just learn to play their class. Because Thieves are far from Over powered. The User is the Over powered one. If you learn to play any class, You can be just as OP.

If a thief in Stealth gets blinded, the hit wont land, If a thief try;s to C/D you while blinded. It will be a failed attempt, because it won’t hit.

vincecontix.1264:

Anyone who plays a thief and thinks they are OP I challenge you to duel

This is a discussion thread , please discuss.
Thank you

Dasorine.1964:

The “problem” with thieves is that mechanically we are weak, as others have said we lack proper access to boons we don’t get any access to protection outside of stolen stuff and yet we are lower health tier, we rely on evasion (which we have a reasonable amount of, though certain people would state every thief has unlimited evasion access on everyskills) and stealth to lower the damage compared to other professions that actively reduce damage incoming.

And there in lies the big thing, because one of our core defense mechanisms is stealth this means that a large part of a thief game play can rely on deception, this is not something new players encounter much in PvE (lets face it skelk battles are few and far between) and in a pvp situation its new to them and because they don’t have a button that removes stealth like they can with boon stripping or such and they don’t get feedback during the stealth like they do with people bunkered in boons etc they see it as total immunity and instant escape.

Stealth requires thought on the non thief side that is not needed for most other average to low level encounters, you see someone put up protection? you boon strip or you keep hitting and shrug off the reduced damage as something that happens, you see someone stack up confusion on you? you condition clear or you stop attacking momentarily.

You see someone stealth? What do most people do? They stop everything, often even movement and just stand there (I can only imagine this is to instantly open up their browser and complain about how an OP thief just instant killed them). This makes stealth exceptionally powerful against these people because it completely shuts them down.

Now good players will see this happen a few times and wonder if there are ways around it, they’ll either ask questions, experiment with skills in those fights or even simply roll a thief and learn first hand, once they do they no longer have massive issues with this one mechanic to the point where really good players don’t pause at all and just keep fighting like it wasn’t there (which because stealth doesn’t actually give any damage reduction it isn’t to them) leaving the thief with really just evasion which many other people have and has its own set of counters etc.

Bad players will just complain and never learn which is why our forums are always filled with complaints and “QQ’s” and of course then if anet listens to them they do stuff like nerf revealed time and such which of course to the bad players has no effect at all because they still haven’t learnt about stealth at all and still completely stop any sort of offensive or defensive play while the good players that are already able to counter stealth have easier and easier times against the thief leaving thieves to bumble along in low-mid tier picking on new and bads.

The same arguements basically covers the complaints about “spamming skills”, people die, latch onto something they have no understanding of and try to get it nerfed even though the mechanics of that system are actually in their favour for the most part.

Thank you for your input

Thank you for your input.
And yes, i agree with you that the people that usually rage at us thieves are usually the ones that have never rolled a Thief before, and know nothing about our class. Usually the (new or bad players). But, the funny thing is that Thieves have the most weakness’s in this game. (Aside from the obvious lowest HP Pool in the game, and armor tier.) Glass cannon thieves are usually the most hated thieves. And we have the most weakness in game. (Fear, Block, Invulnerability, Elixir, Mist Form, Endure Pain, and yes Blind can throw off our 1 hit wonder combo (BV+ A.S +Steal combo). After that we for the most part have about 2 utility skills left. Which makes us very vulnerable. The ironic thing is, that while we have our stealth, Every other class has access to 3-5 second invulnerability frame, And yes people can argue that we can spam blind, but blind is a pulse. And within each pulse there is a split second where damage can be applied. I just don’t feel that is right.

Everyone "QQ"s about stealth finishes. So you’re telling me a EP, Mistform, Elixir,etc. Stomp is better because you can see your opponent to get your CC attempt locked on them(Failed attempt).

Our Utilities are among the weakest in this game, not including our stealth’s. Our traits need tweaking, Our traps are triggered for a 1 enemy purpose. (which i can understand with the Ambush trap), But with the other’s no excuse. Our boons duration is poor, the boons we steal don’t steal the correct duration amount, Seems like every other class has a f2,f3,etc, while Thieves are bound to f1, and our condition removal is poor. But yes. Due to stealth. That compensates for everything I mentioned. (sarcasm).

Thieves are far from “OP” We’re under power aside from GC Thieves, which still can rarely out last a glass warrior with their 3-4 stuns.

I hope a Developer has taken Atleast a look at this thread. (: people have been giving pretty good feedback

Traps are not visible to enemies.

It just so happened it was happy. As i said it would’ve escalated legally, if nothing was resolved, I would’ve saw to it.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

While I understand that you are upset, your version of this is actually not correct. The account was closed because of fraudulent activities on the credit card associated with that account. If this happens, we close the account and refund all transactions made.

This matter could have escalated to a legal issue. And I am very happy this got resolved. I was ready to take matters into my own hands, and yes I am a very good friend with the victim in this situation.

Elmuerto.9840:

I must look up this perma-evade build, its actually the way I rolled (mind the pun!) in WvW although I used food to assist that.

Hahaha, !, and well outside of spvp, this build isn’t really viable. But of you want a challenge you can try it by all means. But I wouldn’t spend all my gold on a set that’ll inevitably kill you. Take it from me. I’ve tried it already, it’s only usefulness is to solo camps, and yak attacks. The mobility is the biggest draw back. But if you’re in spvp this build does wonders. I could let you know what this build consists of if you would like. Other wise there is a thread already made by- Void about this build. You can find it. It’s called don’t need stealth bunker (2 new videos)thief.. Something like that.

Elmuerto.9840:

As a thief I do not find thieves OP – I know what thieves do so when attacked by one I can deal with it. So much has been said about 3 shoting people and that is understandable, before the quickness nerf I did use pistol whip and found things a little easy then – however to be honest other classes hit just as hard if not harder. So at this stage as I don’t like the narrow Backstab route I’m still running D/P and S/B and do not front load much damage at all in fact most hit me harder, it is fun though and I’m kinda trying to feel for a build that sits well. I don’t think things are easy at the moment for my playstyle. One downside that’s a challenge in sPvP is dealing with mesmers – their images auto target and attack very quickly – making the slippy thief who’s manage to make the mesmer loose track of where he is vulnerable. This would be a downside of being a thief most certainly as we thrive on avoidance – any illusion/pet in the smaller confines of sPvP can be right annoying, without much effort.

Well actually if you get it right, you can actually 1 shot any light and medium armored class. I’ve done it multiple times. While I sit on 115% critical damage (without food), and 3500+attack 2500+ power(without food) so it is pretty easy to 1 shot. If you want a 2-3 shot,and much more of a challenge, solely target the heavy armored classes. Yes mesmers can be annoying, but if you catch them off guard, they can still pretty much die in 1 hit. But yes the excitement is there when fighting with mesmers.but if you’re looking for a fun/ strong and viable build for spvp I’d recommend the Perma evade build.

Void.4239:

malikah.6280:

my mistake sorry, i meant void

no need to say sorry

glad people trying/enjoying the evasion side of thief again. instead of hiding in stealth

@ AikijinX.6258 : didnt know the 2 sigils stacked giving a 100% endurance back , will try if in pvp later today ( probebly bug tho if so )

PS: do not forget that acrobatic traits make it that thief has never lower then 20-25% endurance.
Making the second sigil only give 20-25% usefull endurance back ( half a dodge)

up to the players to see what they need more:
- more condition damage?
- more condition duration?
- half a dodge more on swap?
- ….. alot of choises

Yes mate they do stack to gain 100% endurance. I am often called a hacker lol.. People saying its impossible for that many evades, while dying. But that’s their fault for not looking at their Hp bar.

Can’t let this thread die, need some discussion.

stof.9341:

ANet made it so that all sigils that have an internal cooldown shared the same cooldown. A reason why putting a “something on weapon swap” sigil with say, a “sigil of fire” doesn’t work sell. When one procs, the other is stuck with the same cooldown as the first until it can proc again.

Also, you say the CD isn’t one, it’s more for weapon swap. Well let me tell you that the CD is very important because many classes can weapon swap a lot more often than once every 9s. Warrior got a trait to reduce swap CD by 5s, elementalist can change attunements more often and the worse, engineer can change kits like once every 0.5s.

The reason your case works is probably because they both proc at the exact same time and the cooldown is started a little later, when it’s too late they already started to give you back endurance. It might not be considered a problem so the bug might remain as it is for a long time though.

Sigils of Bloodlust have no cooldown at all so I’m not too surprised that they stack as you say. Still, since their effect is capped anyway, it’s balances itself because the sigil becomes useless once at the cap.

The idea of going dual D/D and profit from the initiative on weapon swap isn’t knew. It was one of the core points of the original immortal unicorn build that existed since the betas or so :p The usage of twice the sigil of endurance per weapon is novel and is sure making it stronger than at the time. I think I’ll try it in sPvP while it lasts. It was fun at the time so the same but a little stronger should be OK now.

I play no other class, but Thief. I was unaware of the reduced CD’s. But in this case it is still viable due to the fact that the internal sigil CD’s coincide with the weapon swap Thief CD.

I would actually like to duel you, if you change spec.

Those sigils have a cooldown, they shouldn’t stack together. It’s probably a bug so. The first sigil when it “procs” should throw the cooldown on the second one and it shouldn’t restore endurance at all.[/quote]

This is how they were designed mate. These sigils stack, and the only cool down these have that I have seen, witnessed, and expeienced for myself are the swapping weapons CD. If the CD for the sigils(If Any only lasted the duration of the weapon swap CD then what you said will still be irrelevant mate). Take for instance to sigils of blood lust. Those stack. In pvp
•1 kill- 5 stacks(1 sigil of bloodlust)
•1 kill- 10 stacks(2sigils of bloodlust)
No cool down In between the stacks.

The sigils of energy work the same way. Whereas I use 4 sigils of energy on both dagger sets. To restore 100% endurance all the time. I am asked how I have so much endurance and evasions all the time. And 1/3 the reason is due to my sigils. The other is due to other components to my build.

If you like we can engage in a series of duels? And you can witness 1st hand.

I have a thread open about this. We can have a discussion about this in my thread. It’s called “Thief overall collective discussion” and read thoroughly about what people have said.

And Welcome to the Thief brother hood, enjoy your stay here.

malikah.6280:

I tried both and prefer aikijinX version of more evasion :\
I felt like an pinata, everyone stick on my and wanted to hurt me
I will stick to that build again, played it on release and lvling to 80…

thx!

Mate I don’t really know how viable it is in pve just a disclaimer. I’ve only tried it in pop and WVW (three times) <—wasn’t really helpful. Except for soloing camps.

Well I’m here to tell you that the Thief Is still an extraordinary class. Don’t lose hope with us. With every bad there is bound to be a good. Yes other classes may be good and better pve. But when you want to get something done, and done quick dont leave your thief in the dark. It simply just isn’t our turn yet. We will get our holy grail of improvements.

tagnut.8621:

Its quite simple. Thieves were insanely overpowered at launch and now they’re just severely overpowered.

And unfortunately you’re right. But hey, let’s use this time to train and get better, because right now we’re in bad conditions. Once they start to look at us for improvements we would have already met our top shape, so then the improvements would simply be icing on a cake.

Sounds good, let me know how that goes.

malikah.6280:

ok my failure.. i tried it on the Golem and didnt get in combat.
on spvp it worked as mentioned… my link spec really works great ^^
thx for the spec, really like it… its samething i used to lvl in pve

I whispered you in game. Please respond.

malikah.6280:

how does the weapon sigils work, tried around but it doesnt refill

Talk to me in game.

IGN:AikijinX

malikah.6280:

u Need to copy&paste the link

I see I see. Well i was on my Iphone. But now I am home. And on my Computer. Did you actually want to meet me in PvP right now?

I’m Kaineng server
IGN: AikijinX

malikah.6280:

ok rebuild it and will try it when Iam back at home ^^

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmKP3dS7E95ECXBL07xXNWhV3DuyqqKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkat+Y8x+j5HA

The link you have provided was noted as a “bad link” , but yes please give me your feedback. It’s I’d an extraordinary build, but as I said has its draw back, mobility being one. Just note that thus build has the potential and ability to 2v1 and occasionally 3v1 but main purpose is to hold abs troll points. Hold points for back up to arrive

malikah.6280:

AikijinX can you please link ur build? thx…

I run 0/0/10/30/30
The 10 in shadow arts is a blessing. The regeneration and last refuge. On downed state I occasionally get last refuge and the regeneration trait triggered when downed. I am able to heal my self fairly quickly, and in stealth(last refuge trait) on top of the 3 stealth skill, while I shadow step away.

I run 6 runes of adventurer, 4 sigils of energy(they stack 100% endurance back) and Carrion amulet. Now the traits you should have in acrobatics are the one which gives vigor upon healing, 2 initiative every 10 seconds, and 3 int on weapon swap.
For trickery tree have the trait that grants caltrops on dodge, bountiful theft, and heal on initiative.. ( I am away from computer so can’t give you the Roman numerals)

Utilities: withdrawal(heal) / Caltrops/ roll for initiative/ third is utility of your choice. I usually switch based on class I play. But I go with signet of shadows. I don’t worry too much about conditions being on me. I evade too much. And elite skill: Thieves Guild

**I have a Thief thread open if you guys want to pop in and give your feedback, I’ve had a couple responses and feedback, I will need us as a Thief community to discuss our class. It’s called “Thief overall Discussion” please share your insight.

Another thing. If our traps removed conditions just like engineers bombs removed conditions, or even gave us a random boon, or healed us. That would be interesting. To see. But of course adjust CD accordingly.

I also feel the withdrawal tool tip should be accurate. It says withdrawal heal gives back 4k+ hp, but I activate this heal, and receive, and even see visually 2k+ heals being given back to me.

Thank you for your in depth and careful knowledge, and say in this conversation. I am also in agreement to what you have said.

With our builds now(after the patch) they have their strengths and obvious weaknesses
(GC). I feel their should be more variety to build structures. Because right now there is only Glass/Stealth/Evasion. And all the intermediate cant tend to put out a good amount of damage while being able to sustain and survive like a warrior/Ele/ Guardian. I know that would be the biggest hate for the thief to be able to do all of this and still be able to have the capability to stealth. But I am mainly talking about D/D thieves. I myself am D/P. Full glass, 3400+ attack, 2400+power, crit chance 57% without signet, and 114% crit damage. With still a good 12.4hp pool.
Which brings me to the GC, this build I do believe should have a little bit of tweaking involved. With spec that I am in right now, I 1 -2 shot the majority of light and medium armored, while 3 shotting heavies. There should be a damage nerf in all fairness. But there are times where the thieves worst enemy negates the burst. (Block, mist form, invul, fear, etc) which then leaves a GC thief to having to wait on 3 CD (Assassin signet, Bv, Steal). The Glass thief particularly. Just gets hammered if countered. (When combo is missed)

Our mobility, all I have to say is I wish thieves had a lunge, or dash like capability? To make us more rogue, or (ninja) run up and do your quick 1shot combo. How come warriors have the luxury of having a dash mechanism, which knock downs, then you’re left with 100 blades to the face, or blade trail etc. (Thief is only class I play, and only toon. I do not know much other than from what I have witnessed from warrior& other classes) should warriors be considered OP after that? It’s a pretty fast dash at that too.

Our utilities I’d have to say are very poor? Ruling out our stealth utilities. We need more useful venoms, or actually no. The venoms are fine. The duration is just poor. The traps do little to no good. Yes you can trait for them, to give 5 stacks vulnerability when triggered, but it’s not enough anymore. We do have a lack of boons, and the boons we manage to strip, last 5 seconds. (That’s being generous)

We cannot support as well as we’d like to, yes the shared venoms in shadow arts tree, but that is not quite enough. I could go on. But I will stop here for now.

Any in agreement or disagreement with what I have said. Please speak up ^^

MrForz.1953:

I’m already glad that fights with Thieves are a bit more… fluid now that the culling issues have been removed, they don’t need to get any more hits. That might even convince me to bring mine back, if the average douchified Thieves left.

What i believe they should have done was get rid of culling, and then give it a week or two, then decide whether or not to do something to stealth.