Guild Wars 2

Fail suggestions on healing signet (Even if your goal is to make this only available to bunker warriors, you’re not making it punishable for when bunker wars do take it Double the active, half the passive. It’s that simple), building momentum (Then where does Armored Attack go?), and adrenal health (Signet “rework” is enough to make this trait balanced).

He also asked to nerf Diamond Skin when its already a bad trait to begin with..

You lost credibility.

“Warriors should be immune to conditions.”

Powerr, 2012.

Necro can also condi burst while chain CC’ing, strip boons making it so that you can chain CC without waiting for stability to go off, and have at least 40k HP.

You mad? Mad as in insane?

@EmpatheticFighter

Sorry but its actually Thief and Engi that’s the hardest to play atm. Oh wait, I forgot EU has always played heavy sustain, zero skill, time-out builds.

@Topic

Here’s what needs to happen to Warriors and anti-fun BS in general.

1.) LIMIT EVERY class to one stun break. Maybe give more aggressive means to deal with CC. The main reason why sustain is BS is because the abundant amount of “I messed up buttons” such as stun breaks makes focus fire too hard to pull off vs. high sustain.

One means to counter sustain is focus fire + CC, but guess how many stun breaks that you’re allowed to have on high sustain classes. A lot.

2.) Healing Signet passive cut in half, active increased by 150%. Keep the casting time slow for this so-called “risk.”
3.) Warrior should not be able to cast zerker stance while CC’d. Same with zero skill no risk garbage such as distortion or guardian blinds while stunned.
4.) Delete stun breaks on ALL warrior stances. Stances should be used aggressively in the first place anyways, not an “I messed up” button like the old triple cantrip ele’s who just abused stun breaks vs. focus.
5.) Remember when people said Necros and Warriors would get hurt if they nerfed endurance gain/dodge? That wouldn’t be bad now.

Sword on Mesmer is bad? Pretty much like saying Axe is bad on Warrior. Which it isn’t.

ahuba.6430:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

I don’t know where the notion comes from that phantasms deal no damage in shatter builds. Reality is that phantasm damage is always the top damage entry on your death breakdown against even a shatter mesmer.

Apparently most mesmers don’t realize that though. Mesmer is the one class that deals so much damage out of nowhere as no other and the shatter itself is just a very small portion of the total.

As far as phantasms dying, yeah, they absolutely can in certain team scenarios. But if they hit even once, they are already easily dealing more damage than whatever weapon skill another class would use for that cool down.

Blurred Frenzy – super high reward for almost no risk. 2.5s evade on a 10s CD

Distortion – up to 4 second immunity to condi, power and CC, which you can even have back to back for up to 8 seconds with a trait in a line that you invest 30 in anyway. This is the equivalent of a warrior using Berserker Stance, Balanced Stance and Endure pain by the way.

How is that for risk vs. reward?

I’m sorry but if a mesmer killed you with phantasms then he sucks because he cant land shatters, and YOU suck harder for beeing hit by phantasms till dead against a shatter mesmer. You got two chances to see phantasm skills coming, the animation casted and the phantasm animation itself. A well landed 3 clones + player body shatter can hit for 8k+ damage. That is hardly “a very small portion”.

And blurred frenzy has risk, specially against a warrior. We have to get into melee range to use it properly. Mesmer is a glass canon, melee against a warrior is a risk. It’s much safer to use staff.
You can’t compare Distortion with warrior stances, it is not equivalent to anything. Distortion actually has a drawback, strips us of all our clones (we loose both defense and offense), unlike warriors, that just press zerker stance/endure pain and keep tunneling you down and rolling their face on their keyboards.
And let’s not mention how the difference in mechanical demands of each class…

Yeah but guess why distortion erasing clones isn’t as bad. Because you have that perma-vigor trait and you can’t really count a “good” Mesmer’s dodge. You also strip boons and cleanse other people’s condition with Null-field (Which is kittened strong if you knew how to make good Mesmer builds).

Your class is also the cancer that doesn’t allow AoE in sPvP to get nerfed considering AoE is usually the best counter-play vs. Mesmers. So stop playing the martyr and actually analyze why Mesmers are just as cancerous as Warriors.

I also understand that Mesmer has less viable builds compared to Warrior. But guess what? It doesn’t change. Most of the “good” Warrior builds are linked to stances (AKA defensive mechanics) and most of the “good” Mesmer builds are linked to distortion and that trait that gives perma-vigor.

TL;DR Stop trying to “play the martyr” Mesmers. You aren’t accomplishing anything when your class is just as underhanded as you make Engis, Warriors, and other classes.

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

I don’t know where the notion comes from that phantasms deal no damage in shatter builds. Reality is that phantasm damage is always the top damage entry on your death breakdown against even a shatter mesmer.

Apparently most mesmers don’t realize that though. Mesmer is the one class that deals so much damage out of nowhere as no other and the shatter itself is just a very small portion of the total.

ofc they deal damage but they are not the main damage source

They are, it’s just not showing well in the death breakdown, if you aren’t looking for it.

I also edited my post to add some comparison with your class in terms of risk vs. reward just to show you that listing a bunch of abilities of a class and for whatever reason claiming they are completely overpowered without even comparing them to what else is out there, seems strange and makes this thread look more like a whine than anything.

you cant compare mesmer to warrior..please read the op post again
mesmer lacks sustain, mobility, condition removal etc etc so you cant compare mesmer to warrior

Yes you can. Analyze bro.

Distortion = Berserker Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain.

Sure you’re rooted when you’re using blurred Frenzy, but understand one simple thing, you also have perma-vigor so you’re technically not even rooted. When a Mesmer is dodging (and he can do this extremely frequent too thanks to that perma-vigor trait) he can actually use shatters. Can warrior actually deal damage when they use endurance dodge? Yeah but it isn’t as frustrating to deal with compared to Mesmer because its actually much more telegraphed.

Sure Warrior deals more damage AND is easily the better character when you’re actually good at this game but guess what? Its much easier to land your DPS as a Mesmer than a Warrior would. And MESMERS have Balanced stance, Endure pain, Berserker stance as they DPS at least 50% of the time. This easily makes Mesmer a more brainless class than Warrior in reality.

You don’t compare Warrior vs. Mesmer in terms of sustain. What you need to do is ask yourself if Mesmer isn’t as much of a “nine-lives million I messed up button class” or a “time-out class who waits until one guy messes up because they have so much easy defense mechanics” compared to Warrior right now or not.

P.S I don’t play my Mesmer with a stun break. The class is even more brain dead when you have it.

Because in all honesty, how is Mesmer different from Warriors right now? That Mesmers take more skill? No sorry that is ignorance and is an opinion equivalent to a 1300 Bronze ELO from LoL.

Warriors are strong. But to complain about Warriors when Guardians, Mesmers, Rangers, and Necros can be just as brain dead? Please. Its hypocritical because the people complaining about Warriors were generally hiding behind low skill classes and wants their class to be even easier mode than it already is.

I want people to actually start killing each other and not focus on surviving.

I’d like to know what is everyone’s definition of anti-fun. I’m pretty sure its going to be similar to what I just posted.. in one form or another.

Coulter.2315:

Amir.1570:

My apologies but take the time to compare the damage of Thief short bow 3 or larcenous strike to Mesmer shatter + blurred frenzy. Hell even dodge > F1 on Mesmer is even dumber than short bow 3 or larcenous strike, granted that you know how to count dodges. Don’t get me started on how Mesmers have perma vigor AND cleave better than Thieves because when a Thief is cluster bombing, he isn’t evading and is punishable

I’m not going to explain on why Thief actually takes more skill AND is more reasonable evade frame-wise than Mesmers in this thread. My point on my first post is that mechanics that classes such as Mesmers, Warriors, Old Cantrips Ele apparently “have to abuse” promote time-out matches.

Again, stay on topic. If you really want to discuss this further then PM me. This topic is about how anti-fun “time-out” BS makes this game not so fun.

But thats the point, no other weapon in game gives as much on demand time out as Thief SBow… If you aren’t willing to accept that you need to go back and think again.

Honestly, Mesmer isn’t the only class who can do what I was talking about. I merely stated Mesmer as an example. You would be pretty mad if you were to fight something similar lets say.. a Warrior with Lyssa, Endure Pain, and Berserker Stance. That’s my point.

My apologies but take the time to compare the damage of Thief short bow 3 or larcenous strike to Mesmer shatter + blurred frenzy. Hell even dodge > F1 on Mesmer is even dumber than short bow 3 or larcenous strike, granted that you know how to count dodges. Don’t get me started on how Mesmers have perma vigor AND cleave better than Thieves because when a Thief is cluster bombing, he isn’t evading and is punishable

I’m not going to explain on why Thief actually takes more skill AND is more reasonable evade frame-wise than Mesmers in this thread. My point on my first post is that mechanics that classes such as Mesmers, Warriors, Old Cantrips Ele apparently “have to abuse” promote time-out matches.

Again, stay on topic. If you really want to discuss this further then PM me. This topic is about how anti-fun “time-out” BS makes this game not so fun.

Silferas.3841:

You have lost me when you stated that S/D and shortbow are “fair” (which is simply not true, that spec will either be broken or useless, there is no in-between. It needs to be completely removed from the game), yet complained about mesmer evades and mesmers in general.

I mean seriously? Complaining about mesmers at this point in time? You must be seriously bad if you feel mesmers are too strong in tPvP right now lol.

But as to the rest of the topic: yes, power based builds are too punishing at the moment. They need to either be more rewarding (leading to power creep and one shot builds) or condition specs need to be more punishing (killing the purpose of condition specs).

The difference between Thief and Mesmer is that when a Mesmer is bursting people down, Mesmers have invulnerability or berserker stance, balanced stance, and endure pain. DO NOT even get me started on how Mesmer also cleaves and deal AoE damage while they spam invulnerability frames. In reality, the people who are saying Mesmer takes more skill than Thief is just delusional. When a Thief is spamming evades at least he isn’t doing the damage out-put that a mesmer has when the Thief is spamming evades.

But please stay on topic and leave it at this. I will not respond anymore to people who are saying “Mesmer takes skill” because in reality, they don’t. If you’re up to argue then go ahead and PM me.

Dirame.8521:

When you say “power” builds, do you mean builds that you jump in, do your number and die? Yea those will never come back not even if anet nerfed protection and reduced Weakness uptime. This is not because those builds suck but because people have gotten smarter and the game has moved on from that equally brainless level of play.

If you want to play a burst build you have to think like a Warrior, a Thief or Meditation Guardian. Mobility, Escapability or Sustainability don’t have one of those? Good riddance.

The game has evolved, it’s time burst builds evolved with it.

Sorry this is where you are wrong. The burst meta was the most fun phase of GW2 because you had to calculate by yourself OR as a team to kill someone.

If you were bad back then, you actually had to push to progress. Nowadays if you were at a low skill level? Just abuse multiple stun breaks, defensive mechanics, and boons.

Do you know why people are saying this meta is full of brainless builds? Because they put way too much training weights and allowed the meta classes to have nine-lives.

NO ONE wants to play a time-out game where you use time vs. your opponents instead of shear calculation and aggression. No one.

Can’t wait til brain dead evades on rangers get nerfed so that class will take skill already. Oh wait…

@TheDevice
Two flash summoner spells on ANY champ. That’s what I meant. Also, anti-crit masteries in league of legends don’t even scale as hard as protection or weakness. Do the math.

Also, weakness and protection can stay but 33% and 50% damage reduction on crits and non-crits is pushing it. The values need to be 30% for protection and 10% reduction for ALL hits when talking about weakness because it already halves endurance gain.

No one enjoys time-out games. People actually want to kill each other and this game isn’t promoting aggressive play enough mainly possibly because of the list that I posted.

Bump. If anyone think what I wrote isn’t whats causing anti-fun, then what is? Tell me.

Weakness reduces both critical damage and normal damage by 50% at a 50% chance. Key word is, 50% reduction at a 50% chance. Seriously way out of reason.

I’d like to see what the devs has to say about this matter. Mostly requests Powerr and Grouch’s insight.

“looking and waiting for openings”

Man. I wonder where that went to because around 9 months ago I’ve been doing this. But compared to now?

I’ll put more League references. GW2 is a game where everyone is pretty much supposed to be Nasus..

Evade frames are not fun to deal with, why?

1.) You have to resort to AoE to hit most classes (such as Mesmers and Rangers, not even gonna bother with S/D or Short Bow because at least those are fair) who resort to brain dead easy evades.
2.) AoE isn’t getting nerfed mainly due to anti-fun garbage such as this. If you nerf AoE, you are INDIRECTLY buffing evade frames.
3.) Endurance dodges are way too safe and way too abundant. It is IMPOSSIBLE to count dodges vs. certain classes (Engi with adventure runes, Mesmer, Warrior with building momentum, Bunker Guardian). I don’t understand why not nerf energy sigils when Quickness got nerfed. The logic just boggles me.

Multiple stun breaks are not fun to deal with, why?

1.) Focus fire doesn’t help vs. classes who are allowed to have both up time (Healing Signet, Old Triple Cantrips Ele, Mesmer generally, Bunker Engi vs. certain match-ups) and a million “I messed up” buttons.
2.) Imagine if you’re allowed to have 2 flash summoner spells in league of legends, annoying right? GW2 allows this for the “damage pool” that it has which is… a little below average and not enough to “burst” someone out of position. At least league has a reasonable damage pool, punishes bad habits such as depending on nine lives mechanics, and promotes burst and smart play.
3.) A way to deal with a class with multiple stun breaks and high up-time was through burst. But what did ANET do? They nerfed Quickness.

Power builds are not as rewarding, borderline fun, to play anymore compared to before, why?
1.) Weakness (Why the hell is this a 50% damage reduction? The logic behind this fails)
2.) Protection
3.) Vigor
4.) ANET failed to address how the 3 boons could potentially make power builds frustrating to play after the Quickness nerf. Even with Quickness, power builds WERE punishable.

TL;DR I think GW2 is not fun anymore compared to before because the devs are promoting “nine-lives mechanics” which is pretty much playing a fighting game, as an example, for a “time-out” instead of actually killing people.

Feel free to disagree with me and keep it clean.

Don’t know why nerf a class further when its already too hard to play Thief. Reminds me when ANET incompetently nerfed Frenzy without compensations 7 months ago when Warrior was already hard to play. Seriously that was a time where the developers deserved to be fired for being incompetent garbage, no offense to the devs.

On Warrior, yes. It used to be a necessity back when Zerker Stance wasn’t around, now its completely broken. Lyssa on the other hand is just absolute garbage on classes such as Elementalist and Engineer.. and kinda okay on Thieves, Guards and Mesmers.

You people don’t get it. The Warrior on the video can have 3-6 defensive cool downs while most Engis builds LEGITIMATELY can not afford to have stun breaks or defensive cool downs to have access to high reward techs and maneuvers.

You people are literally beyond dumb if you don’t understand what Ostrich is trying to say.

Seriously it makes me sick. Stun-lock Warrior took skill around 3-6 months ago because YOU DID NOT HAVE A MILLION TRIES. The only reason why its working is because ANET allows brain dead defense mechanics stacking AND MAKES IT EASY on top of that.

NO ONE was using the CC build before Warrior’s got the berserker stance, cleansing ire, and skull crack buff. NO ONE. Not even Mr. Know-It-All sorrow.2364 could’ve made it work before these changes happened. (Because you are just simple-minded beyond salvation)

Do you know the “only reason why its anti-fun” right now? Hint: Its not the frequency of the stuns, the stun durations or paralyzation sigil.

^
Stop wasting your time. This community is beyond salvation. L2P against something that’s rewarding and easy to play, just WOW.

I personally don’t condone Warrior’s state right now because they can be stronger than Rangers at the highest level of skill. Thing is though, at least Warriors actually have to land CC to DPS and they can’t really fight back if they’re incapacitated unlike Ranger where you can just put an auto-click feature on the mouse and win.

Just telling people to L2P against a brain dead class is pushing it.

Res utilities should be flat out banned in sPvP. There’s too much defensive mechanic abuse and passive sustain going on already, why prolong and make the game look passive, defensive, and boring.

People telling an Ele to L2p against a Ranger.. nothing’s getting balanced around whatever you say, sigh.

The fact that you can cast something while you’re CC’d as a ranger is just dumb and broken. When a ranger is stunned they shouldn’t even be able to do anything. The fact that people don’t see why this is a problem is just sad and pathetic. Just proves that really garbage communities defend things that take no skill because they can’t grow any skill.

@OP

While you’re at it, give Plague form a casting time of 1 second and nerf the hell out of death shroud effective HP.

Unless you’re crying for nerfs without forgetting what your class does.

Also evade frames on skills are lame garbage and needs to be toned down by around 1/4 or 1/3 the original frame.

“We don’t want Warrior to be broken in PvE.”

“We don’t want Warriors to be unstoppable beasts.”

Proceeds to buff their heals, banners, and Berserker stance instead of something creative. Cause I know something creative could’ve been implemented.

^
So if you’re compatible with the Necro, why can’t you figure out how to deal with Warrior CC? You don’t know how to use Flesh Wurm and Foot in the Grave? Gotcha, so you’re just a weak skilled player.

Strip Boons to make people easier to kill: Null Field, Shatter
Safe Stomps: Distortion
Safe Burst: Distortion
Make other classes carry better: Time Warp, Null Field
CC for other people and make them easier to kill: Moa Morph, Illusionary Leap, Signet of Domination, Focus, Pistol

Other classes just need to get toned a bit. Mesmer is fine.

@sorrow
Again. You refuse to make plays you deserve to lose. I don’t condone the Warriors state right now but you have options considering you’re one of those people who plays FOTM characters.

That’s what should’ve happened. Now that berserker stance exists its never going to happen.

sorrow.2364:

Amir.1570:

The CC is necessary (Why? Vigor, Evade frames, high AoE pressure such as engi and necro), the healing buff was necessary (Because Healing Surge was just better no matter how good you were), you know what isn’t necessary? Berserker Stance and being able to have more than one stun break on any class.

Sorrow, please if you’re going to be a “know it all” then know how to deal with the CC portion at least. You don’t even know the true problem.

That amount of CC is not necessary at all.
If you don’t have stability (hint: not any profession have it), stunbreakers aren’t enough to save you from the huge amount of stuns.

The healing buff was good, yeah, that is the point. Now that warriors have huge sustain, their insane CC capability needs to be looked at.

Hell, I can chain-CC someone indefinitely just switching between hammer and mace+shield. Stability is only the real counter, but only two professions have reliable access to it. Guardians and, guess who, Warriors.
A Ranger has some breathing while under Rampage as One.
An engineer is dead meat.
Same about Thief. If you catch them with a single stun, they are dead.
Mesmer can only survive a bit more thanks to their invulnerabilities. Same for Eles.
Necromancers have no chances.

I’d really like to know how to deal with the CC part as a Necromancer. Please, tell me how.

Easy, pretty sad that you haven’t figured it out. You out-damage CC Warrior with Dagger 1. If they can’t CC you they aren’t going to out-damage you. Compare Necro Dagger 1 to the DPS of CC skills, Dagger 1 destroys it by itself and its not even that hard.

Foot in the grave. Every time DS is up press F1 for stability, switch back to dagger, spam dagger 1, rinse and repeat. You should have DS every 7 seconds if you trait for it.

If you’re in a team fight, learn to position and don’t be stupid enough to stand near attack range when berserker stance is up.

If you’re one of those casuals who still refuse to make plays then you deserve to lose. It’s time to L2P if you think you’re good enough to deserve to win.

The CC is necessary (Why? Vigor, Evade frames, high AoE pressure such as engi and necro), the healing buff was necessary (Because Healing Surge was just better no matter how good you were), you know what isn’t necessary? Berserker Stance and being able to have more than one stun break on any class.

Sorrow, please if you’re going to be a “know it all” then know how to deal with the CC portion at least. You don’t even know the true problem.

Guards always been a brain dead class. Low skill floor, low skill cap, high reward. I don’t think they should be tweaked in all honesty because anyone can pick up a guardian and be good at it the moment you know how to peel for your allies and pay attention to your allies hp and conditions.

Supports in most games are just meant to be easy and effective. They really shouldn’t touch Guardian anymore unless every class has to be touched for more variety.

You have no one else to blame but ANET. Stop wasting your time. Since ANET allowed it to exist, people are going to use it.

It’s dead. There is no PvP when there are no people playing it.

@zencow

Do you know how biased you sound? You did NOT include being able to have indefinite evade frames and you also did not include being able to use more than one stun break as brainless mechanics.

Rethink your topic please and include these. Don’t include these and all your thread does is a cry for nerfs on classes you don’t even play.

Anything works in PvE. If you really have to have sustain then do 20/0/0/30/20.

Axe/Shield + Long Bow

Reasons: Sleeper.

You ignore. Sword + Warhorn and GS has the worst DPS capability out of all Warrior builds to the point where you only count half a man when everyone’s actually good at this game.

That being said, watch out for Flurry or HB. Tank Whirlwind attack if you think you deserve to win. Its not hard to deal with heavy mobility Warrior builds.

We still care ANET. Come on, COMMUNICATE. Tell us why fixes are hard to implement first hand.

I would personally get out of Warrior attack range when they have Berserker stance up.

I also personally would want newbie Warriors to be punished for.. being new. By a few simple tweaks.

I was planning on bumping an old thread with the same concept and all but I can’t seem to find it.

Anyways, with sure-footed, Frenzy is supposed to be a 7.5 second duration along with the debuff. Could this issue please be fixed?

Sure nerf CC but nerf evade frames by half while you’re working in nerfing CC.

P.S Learn to think of other factors and not just something that benefits yourself. Posts like these are simple minded beyond belief.

Sure nerf CC, nerf Evade frames too while you’re at it because CC is one of the best ways to deal with spamming easy frames.

P.S You’re looking at the wrong problem.