The argument is apparently “I get more adrenaline from using Whirling Axe for PvE.” Guess what? Healing Surge says hi. Take Healing Surge and then down in combustive shot and spam Axe 1s while stacking vulnerability for more DPS and party might stacking. Maybe even put in burst mastery if you have enough critical rate anyways. Don’t even touch Whirling Axe because this skill is beyond help and in dire need of it.
Did I also mention that Whirling Finishers are RNG and is not reliable?
No seriously, you’re picking whirling axe over Axe 1s and Off-hand Mace for PvE (8% vulnerability which your team can make use of causing quicker and easier dungeon clears) while actually making use of Axe 1s for better DPS. You have much high overall DPS uptime if all you do is 2 > 4 for vulnerability and let the Axe auto attacks do all the work. Whirling Axe is just extremely counter productive that Axe 1s and sitting back while auto-attacking is just more rewarding.
It is beyond inexcusable that a skill like this is being defended.
Amazing how people are literally defending whirling axe when spamming Axe 1 is much better DPS on top of having an off-hand Mace for vulnerability stacking for quicker dungeon speed runs. I can’t tell if its stupidity or ignorance.
Seriously this skill needs help, its a counter productive skill in PvE and PvP because Axe 1 is just better DPS. It is a clear imbalance within the weapon set, there is no argument if you do the math.
It is just inexcusable that you think this skill is productive when its realistically counter productive.
Passivity such as protection is becoming redundant, think of better ideas that make Warriors more rewarding as they reach the target because your ideas are too unoriginal (guardian duplicate) and not innovative enough to be considered.
Realistically though, every class should just be brought down to Warriors level if ANET wants this game to have a chance of succeeding.
By limiting one class per team, that’s like saying there is no diversity because this profession only has one viable build. Its extremely simple minded and I don’t think limiting classes is the right answer.
Its more of the fact that certain things that people abuse right now (Ranger Frames while having protection and Necros though Necros are kinda close to balanced now) are way too forgiving. I mean you don’t even see people stacking Mesmers, Thieves or Engis in competitive play, why should classes even be limited?
I don’t think evades are going to get nerfed until “AoE” gets fixed in this game.
Hello. I main necro. Lyssa is fine.
Hello. I main necro. Lyssa is OP.
Months ago this guy also said Lyssa was bad vs. Necros.
He kinda buried himself with the argument in which “Everyone is using lyssa so it must be OP” so its hard for him to be taken seriously at this point.
Only two classes that can make use of Lyssa right now, the other one might just be because it was just a strong class to begin with and the other one is way too telegraphed for Lyssa to even be “that” strong as the OP states.
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Ask yourself, why is it is stacking Engis, Guardians, Thieves, Mesmers, Warriors, and Eles less frequent than stacking Necros and Rangers? Limiting one class per tournament is the simple minded way to fix things, and I don’t mean this in a hateful manner.
One class limit does not promote diversity at all to be honest. The real way to fix class stacking is to make every class have infinite possibilities.
Would be great if people asked for the Warriors aggressive factor (Doesn’t have to be damage, could be utility) to be buffed instead of buffing cheesy defensive mechanics :x
Personally I think Warrior is close to balanced right now, a few more pushes will make it just as broken as other classes.
Neither. Long Bow Warrior outshines both at the skill cap.
Would be great if we could all stay on topic and answer the following questions:
1.) If the only way to fix condition damage in sPvP is tweaking the amulets, how would you play around the stats (namely the condition damage portion of the amulets) to make it so that conditions are reasonable but not too crazy?
*I’m aware that conditions are necessary but it would be great if it was a little more active than apply > play defensively after.
2.) If tweaking amulets in sPvP isn’t the way to fix condition damage in sPvP, then what will fix conditions in sPvP?
The thing is you all have great ideas but I don’t think ANET even has the time to make new stats such as condition damage or duration reduction. I think tweaking amulets might be a quicker way to fix the problem at hand while preserving PvE balancing.
Also would like to see what a Dev has to say in this matter if possible.
Keep it clean.
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Sorry if I seem persistent but I need a few people’s insight on possible changes. I’m not saying that these changes should happen but I think its about time that the community brain storms on things that can be tweaked without hurting PvE balancing.
If you seriously are aiming for a fix to the amulet chaos…
Drop crit damage.
From everything.To have viable physical damage at the moment a spec needs to have high power, crit allot and have high crit dmg… messing up that scaling by turning crits into like only bonus 30~% dmg would balance out PvP wonderfully…
At the moment conquest promotes burst builds… the best kind of roamer is one that can kill an enemy in a seconds time flat. That with the only way to deal viable dmg to go glass cannon… that’s a complete push for glass deeps, having amulets at least not easily give out insanely high scaling dmg would be a good fix.
It’d let power/crit stacking lead to some good dmg, but nothing insane enough to be the only viable source.I’d also add in more ‘on crit’ effects to the game… ones that don’t scale off of power or condition dmg. It’d let precision alone give decent dmg with some odd buffs/debuffs from the critting, power alone gives better damage, while power and crit gives strong damage (but not insane).
For specific amulets, I’d turn berserkers into ‘+600~ power, +500~ crit, +400~ healing, +500~ condi dmg’ It’d be glass cannon well rounded dmg, with the only survivability in self healing well.
I’d also vi more for healing power to not effect regen or any other healing skill, instead just the main heal skill, like it reduces the main heal skills CD and/or notably increases its healing.
You’re kinda re-working the whole game with those suggestion. Lets try to find “realistic” fixes though.
You do realize that less 259 condition damage is around 12 damage off of bleeds right? That is hefty amount if you ask me. If you do the math I think your damage should be about the same except in order to have as much reliable DPS as before, you have to be more active at attacking instead of playing defensively after you get your combo off.
At least that’s what I believe if amulets such as rabid’s have some of their condition damage converted into something more active such as critical damage.
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I’ll skip a few things and bring out a thought. Lets take the Rabid Amulet as an example again:
Would passive methods of dps in general tone down if lets say Rabid Amulet’s stats went from:
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
798 + 125 Condition Damageinto
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
569 + 75 Condition Damage
15% + 5% Critical DamageWhat would happen theoretically if part of the condition damage (Around 224 + 45 Condition Damage into 15% + 5% Critical Damage) became critical damage instead in an attempt to tone down passivity in sPvP? Would it kill certain builds or would this type of change be a step to the right direction in making certain condition builds more active IF it were to happen? Keep it clean.
Sorry if I seem persistent but I need a few people’s insight on possible changes. I’m not saying that these changes should happen but I think its about time that the community brain storms on things that can be tweaked without hurting PvE balancing.
Not sure about Engi/Ranger, but this amulet will make necro a lot stronger.
Could you please elaborate on how re-working rabids into (as an example) 20% critical damage less 259 condition damage makes specs such as condition necromancers stronger?
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I’ll skip a few things and bring out a thought. Lets take the Rabid Amulet as an example again:
Would passive methods of dps in general tone down if lets say Rabid Amulet’s stats went from:
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
798 + 125 Condition Damageinto
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
569 + 75 Condition Damage
15% + 5% Critical DamageWhat would happen theoretically if part of the condition damage (Around 224 + 45 Condition Damage into 15% + 5% Critical Damage) became critical damage instead in an attempt to tone down passivity in sPvP? Would it kill certain builds or would this type of change be a step to the right direction in making certain condition builds more active IF it were to happen? Keep it clean.
Sorry if I seem persistent but I need a few people’s insight on possible changes. I’m not saying that these changes should happen but I think its about time that the community brain storms on things that can be tweaked without hurting PvE balancing.
I don’t think anymore counters to burst should exist.. I mean burst is already punishable as is due to most burst manuvers being extremely telegraphed. Maybe retal should tick vs. condition with an ICD but that’s complexity within a complexity :x
(edited by Amir.1570)
I’ll skip a few things and bring out a thought. Lets take the Rabid Amulet as an example again:
Would passive methods of dps in general tone down if lets say Rabid Amulet’s stats went from:
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
798 + 125 Condition Damage
into
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
569 + 75 Condition Damage
15% + 5% Critical Damage
What would happen theoretically if part of the condition damage (Around 224 + 45 Condition Damage into 15% + 5% Critical Damage) became critical damage instead in an attempt to tone down passivity in sPvP? Would it kill certain builds or would this type of change be a step to the right direction in making certain condition builds more active IF it were to happen? Keep it clean.
(edited by Amir.1570)
Simply because it takes a few buttons to get a full condition combo off. Keep in mind that after applying a condition combo, you can simply wait or play defensively (some sort of passive play here) until the target burns their condition cleanse and then re-apply it after. Kinda supports the fact that most condition builds are somewhat low-skill floor + high reward right now.
It takes a few buttons to get any kind of combo off. If anything, conditions take MORE skill than power, because after you deliver your payload, you need to buy yourself some time. It rewards consistency and skilled play, not random procs and short burst encounters.
Prove me wrong.Also I hate to repeat myself but another thing is that it doesn’t help that most conditions are also AoE and not as telegraphed as power damage.
Please stop saying that. It just isn’t true.
Are there AoE condition skills in the game? Sure. Do they outnumber the single-target condition skills in the game OR in the current meta? No.
And they are telegraphed just fine, you just need to get used to dodging things that aren’t OMG-THERE-IS-A-SWORD-SWINGING-AT-MY-FACE!
Conditions take more skill than power damage? I have a hard time believing that to be honest simply because the current meta right now has more conditions than power damage. I also have a hard time deciding whether what you said is credible or not at this point because the next line that I’m probably going to hear is “Maybe because people like challenging and innovative team compositions.”
But if that isn’t your answer, then please tell me why power damage team comps declined and condition damage team comps is becoming more prominent?
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pets and dots are the epitome of lazy & noob play
they should never be effective in a game that takes pvp seriouslyHow the hell is dots lazy & noob play?
What, mindlessly charging with tunnel vision on is your idea of some kind of skillful, honorable PvP ideal?
Simply because it takes a few buttons to get a full condition combo off. Keep in mind that after applying a condition combo, you can simply wait or play defensively (some sort of passive play here) until the target burns their condition cleanse and then re-apply it after. Kinda supports the fact that most condition builds are somewhat low-skill floor + high reward right now.
Also I hate to repeat myself but another thing is that it doesn’t help that most conditions are also AoE and not as telegraphed as power damage.
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I want to point out that the majority of “condition damage” is less telegraphed and mostly AoE while the majority (Not saying all of it) of the good sources of “power damage” is more telegraphed and more punishable be it single target or AoE. Let alone the fact that Weakness only affects Power damage and not conditions.
Keep it clean.
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One more push should probably happen, and hopefully after that the game reaches “perfect imbalance.”
I do agree that some of the BS is unreasonable compared to Warrior but hopefully something class defining comes out in this next patch.
Help me out on this one, lets say the goal is to make condition classes a little more active and less passive to preserve their DPS so that they become a little more punishable without messing up PvE balancing, how would you change the amulets into something a little more reasonable just so applying condition damage becomes less brainless?
Keep it clean.
(edited by Amir.1570)
Bump. Need constructive replies, not detrimental replies.
I think a more realistic fix that won’t mess up PvE balancing is re-balancing the condition amulets in tPvP.
If Necro is allowed to have that much DPS and utility which causes them to punish extremely hard, they should be just as easy to punish. The first step is to make it so that Necros shouldn’t be able to fear you off when they are stunned during DS. Being able to plague form while stunned or knocked down is also extremely unreasonable for how hard Necros punish. Sure you can say just move away from Necros when they plague form or DS fear is only single target, but this class is way too forgiving for its aggressive factor (Being able to condition DPS while chaining CC).
I would say Necros would be balanced if they fixed at least one of the two underhanded that I’ve mentioned.
So apparently since conditions are over the top in sPvP, we should take a look at a possible root of the problem: the “condition damage” portion of the condition amulets.
Take the Rabid Amulet for example:
Amulet + Jewel
569 + 75 Precision
569 + 75 Toughness
798 + 125 Condition Damage
For the amount of survivability that you get from the rabid amulet, 798 + 125 condition damage doesn’t seem reasonable. I could also invert what I just said and say for the amount of damage that you get from the rabid amulet, 569 + 75 toughness seems way over the top.
Though if the amulets have nothing to do with conditions being crazy, then what is causing conditions to be over the top?
Keep it clean.
Maybe don’t allow Necros to fear people when they’re stunned through death shroud and nerf Ranger evade frames but give them more active things (Such being able to control a pets F1 F2 F3 and F4) and be a less passive class. Only then would the game be fun. Both of those classes are causing anti-fun right now.