Guild Wars 2

This is a good question, I’d like to know the answer too.

Speculation: My prediction is that the ability to purchase PoF hero points using proofs of heroics won’t unlock until you’ve discovered all the maps in PoF so maybe you will be able to unlock some to most of an elite spec at launch, but not fully unlock it until a bit later.

As someone who mainly plays pvp and wvw, I’m disappointed based on what I’ve seen so far.

• All tome skills have cast times. Tome skills need to be charged by hitting the enemy, can only be used so many times (pages), the individual skills have cooldowns AND the tomes themselves have long cooldowns? No thanks.

• Tome of Justice has next to no options for support or power-based builds. It’s practically a waste of space for them. I suppose it could be swapped into/out of quickly for some quickness.

• Very poor mobility: This is literally going to be the least mobile of the next 9 elite specs, comparable to base necro. No leaps, no teleports, no mobility related skill, no access to superspeed, paltry amount of swiftness (which doesn’t make up for lack of aforementioned skill types) and only a little access to some soft CC on a long cooldown (immob on mantras, bit of cripple on axe 2).

• Personal sustain looks to be abysmal: Since everything has a cast time, you are very susceptible being rendered useless, even in your desired role as support for the team. You may have more stability, but if you get locked down (a spellbreaker warrior with boonstripping + thief on you) you’re pretty much done for. While it’s true that FB will gain increased access to aegis and perhaps 2-3 instant aoe blinds using that one mantra, these aren’t going to do much for you when you’re the focus of 2-3 players.

• Tome animations are a let-down. This has been mentioned before. We need to have tomes hovering in front of us, not holographic pages that we don’t even really interact with. Each of the three tomes could be animated slightly differently (Justice = dancing blue flames, Resolve = a lighter glowing blue aura, Courage = a vivid shine emanating from the pages).

I can see FB possibly being useful in wvw zerg fights with aoe quickness application and nice support skills on f2 and f3 tomes but not replacing AH due to its cast times required for key tome skills. I don’t see it being very useful in pvp due to lack of sustain and ability to peel from a fight.

Trying to be cautiously optimistic here, but I really do see potential:

• A support based class but an offensive melee weapon: To me this indicates that the weapon is them tossing a bone towards those of us who want a more offensive/dps mainhand weapon and don’t JUST want to support. If they intended on making this elite spec full support, our weapon would have been off-hand warhorn.

• “Burning is still our only condition” : we don’t know this for sure yet. In truth, I believe this will unfortunately be the case, but who knows? There could be bleed on one of the axe skills, and there could be a trait that applies conditions to the enemy every time we burn them/remove a boon from them/ they block our attacks/whatever. Additionally, I predict that we’ll gain more access to blind, cripple, immob, slow and vulnerability from our tomes/traits/utilities, some of which may come with frequent application (vulnerability on f1 procs, for example) and act as cover condis.

• We’re moving towards casting-based support: This could be bad but is a bit of a gray zone for me. It all comes down to how obvious the animation is coupled with reaction time of an enemy. I can see this going one of two directions:
  1. We have to cast a LOT of things (nearly everything for our tomes) but cast times are short (0.25 to 1s).
  2. Our most important skills will have significant cast times (0.5 to 1.5s) but some clutch skills (instantly blinding enemies, giving stability to allies, giving aoe aegis) will be instant-cast.
  Personally, I’m hoping #2 is the case as this will promote skillful play as opposed to #1 promoting a face-roll style which falls off at higher-tiered play since you won’t be able to circumvent getting interrupted by good players.
  Lets also not forget that more casting-based support potentially means more powerful and useful support when used properly. This is something the guardians need to move beyond the realm of only being “Stand Your Ground!” bots.

One last note: I encourage you all to think of what may already synergize with the upcoming elite spec. For example: For spvp, I for one am excited merely by the prospect of Smiter’s boon synergizing with a healing mantra that has 2, maybe 3 uses! That’s potentially a lot of damage and is definitely a lot of condis cleared.

ArchonWing.9480:

It’s just deathly chill. PvE oriented change that should have never been.

This. Honestly, non-roamer condi reapers never really drew my attention more than anything else until deathly chill got buffed some 4-5 months ago. That buff from 1 to 3 stacks that tipped the scales.

Reading back on the patch notes, Archon is doubly right… it does claim “Increased bleed stacks to 3 for 5 seconds in PvE only.”

ArthurDent.9538:

I suspect a lot of the salt towards hammer revenant is purely because of this trait:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cruel_Repercussion

They look at their combat log, see a 15k cor, and assume that every cor hits that hard when it really only happens occasionally.

Regardless I would love to see the trait reworked to a steady +10-15% damage modifier. This would eliminate the exceptionally high hammer hits in wvw that everyone loves to post screen shots, make power rev less trash for pve raids, and not break pvp rev since they would need to give up their one decent condi cleanse for it.

I think a change/removal/nerf of this trait would do a lot to quell cries of Rev Hammer being OP. I can’t ever remember being crit any more than 7k by CoR that wasn’t aided by that trait.

If you have focus 5 on, aegis up and are casting mace 3, a single attack will strike all three blocks. There really is no logical reason or balancing reason for this to be true. It’s just an extremely low priority on the dev’s side.

For the love of all that is good in wvw, no killshot/gunflame-like skills.

My hope is that rifle provides excellent ranged dps and hopefully nice aoe damage (ricochet among other things) since this class really needs that as an option but no high-octane burst skills.

Oh? CoR can land 9-15k crits, is a non-projectile, can actually hit more than 1 person at a time and still has a 4s cooldown?

BETTER NERF TRUESHOT ON DH AGAIN!

Main issues with grandmaster marks:

• You still need 500 crafting in the discipline corresponding to your weapon.
• It’s only marginally cheaper than straight up crafting the weapon. (50g through marks vs. 64g regular crafting for a zojja’s claymore, just as an example)
• It is no less stressful/tedious than crafting normally. In fact, it’s more stressful since some of the materials you craft are exclusive ones and cannot be placed within materials storage so you have to craft it in one go, or have the materials occupy bank space meanwhile.

The whole grandmaster marks system is a bad one imo but unfortunately it’s here to stay.

Very experienced DH here, I’ll throw in my 2 cents:

Make a DH and run through how their bursts work and what skills do good damage vs. which do not. Once you’re familiar with these skills and fight them enough, you’ll start to predict them more readily.

For actually fighting them: the very good ones will try and bleed out your mobility and defensive skills before laying on their burst. They will consistently try to land f1 on you (dodge this if possible, it severely cripples their offence). If you fail to avoid their f1, be sure you have either shadowstep or bandit’s defence ready to duck out of the incoming burst because they’ll usually pull you into a trap and/or use their teleport coupled with a burst.

Often times, when you go in for a burst, the best you come out with is a trade. Don’t trade if you you know the trade could kill you, just kite. If trading: after the trade, move out of range and be ready with your defensive utilities. kitten what skills the DH just blew (did they use their f2 and f3? Heal? teleport?) and whether they could kill you on the next trade (ex.: did they just blow longbow 2 and 3 and have no defensive utilities left?). If not, keep trading. If maybe, then reset and reengage when your heal/steal/utilities are up.

It’s a very uphill battle for thief. You have to consistently outplay them and come out on top of the trades multiple times in a row. It’s not a duel though; just reset and reengage, or pull off for the time being.

I’ve been downed in 1v1 by some very excellent roamer thieves who play smart even while only making few mistakes myself. Best case scenario for me is those thieves manage to escape after a single bad trade which can be frustrating and cause me to play recklessly the next time I see them. It’s overall in their favor so I usually end up running off (which is sort of a “victory” for the thief).

Longtime, avid guard/DH roamer here. Some advice/tips/tricks:

• Like everyone else said, use sword 2, GS 3, f2, JI as well as swiftness from staff 3 and medpack 5 (from sentry flagpole kits). Mobility is HUGE when it comes to roaming and as a DH you have very poor mobility unless you make use of all of these skills.

• Builds: Standard power medi-trapper (LB & Sw/sh) works very well for most matchups. You can switch utilities or a weapon out if desired. I like to carry around GS, scepter and focus to switch out to. If you prefer burn guard, I recommend you check out Kiritsugu emeya’s videos; his build works very well 1v1 and even better in small group roaming.

• Know your matchups: Know what you can kill and what you have trouble killing, then plan accordingly before engaging. See a condi necro? Switch out JI for CoP. See a thief approaching you? Be sure to start on Sw/sh to absorb some burst. Keep an eye out for thieves. A very good one can be on you and engage much more quickly than any other class and can dispose of you very quickly but goes down equally as fast if you know what you’re doing. I won’t offer too much fight advice though; too many nuances that you will just learn over time as you play.

• Avoiding death: As often as you can, stick close to towers/camps or terrain that you can LoS or kite through. This is huge when fighting outnumbered or if being chased. You have poor mobility over time but great sudden bursts of mobility. For example: Sword 2, JI, f2, RF, f2 again. That’s just over 3000 units of distance covered in a few seconds. Not quite thief level of mobility but just about nothing else can match this. While roaming, you also want to avoid main thoroughfairs (such as running right along SMC before going off towards a camp in Eternal Battlegrounds) since you’re far more likely to run into larger groups of players who can chase you down fairly easily.

CptAurellian.9537:

Ragnarox.9601:

Spirit weapons are dead, pls dont touch them cause you will get Pharaoh’s curse if you open their tomb.

Agreed. In addition to the curse, I’d really like to see development time spent on more useful skills than blue junk weapons.

That’s overly pessimistic. There have been plenty of pretty awesome suggestions regarding spirit weapon overhauls that would make them viable and possibly fan favorites. It probably wouldn’t take as much development time to fix them as we all think, it’s just a matter of when Anet gets around to a major underused skill reworking for multiple classes. I’m willing to bet they have at least a couple different spirit weapon buffs in the pipeline but aren’t implementing them due to them needing more testing and whatnot. We definitely need an overhaul and not just a buff though so the more threads like this one, the better. Keep it up!

Belorn.2659:

Arcaedus.7290:

Belorn.2659:

Have you tried to ask them nicely to leave when the map is full? Some people will respond friendly when friendly spoken to.

This is adorable

We could treat everyone as evil robots, but wvw is built on cooperation between players. Some server have a community built on the game mode, fostering a friendly environment for new and old players.

For example, people have now started to go the obsidian sanctum to leech those last rewards when logging off from wvw, rather than staying on a active map. Help your fellow wvw players understand why a full EB map is the wrong place to leech rewards and they might just join in active play or find a outmanned map.

Wasn’t being sarcastic, I genuinely liked that comment. It seems that asking someone nicely is a delicacy nowadays though.

yLoon.5289:

I disagree, this will screw up my reflective impulse since I had already get used to it, Meaning i would ensure no condition when there is 12 stack of burn/ 30 stack bleed on me when im using RF.

Furthermore, the longer time u can invulnerable, is even the better!
You can even do tactical RF, luring enemy’s fire to you etc

I will agree it provided that if u can repress it to end it quick. But reduce the invulnerable period, is a big NO for me =D

Why are you suggesting a nerf to us? xD

He’s proposing with his change that if you wanted to, you could press RF, and channel/be invulnerable for the full 3 seconds as it currently works. BUT, if you want to, while you are channeling RF, you could press it again to end the casting and get your virtues back right away.

It’s a mostly neutral buff but would be a very nice tactical buff for high levels of play.

somewhatobsessed.6309:

If a requirement of 1000-1500 is acceptable to you, what’s another 500 ranks?

6 Months of play time.

somewhatobsessed.6309:

Lowering the rank requirement to 1500 or 1000 would reward this group without really harming the groups from the first list and without making the rewards easily accessible to casual or new players.

I fall into the second category of WvWers that you describe, spending most of my playtime babysitting sentries/camps/towers, recapping, and supporting the main zerg in defense/offense when necessary. I just hit rank 1000 this week, so I’m nowhere near qualifying for the T3 myself, but I’m okay with that because I see it as a long-term goal. If ANet reduced it to 1000 come this Tuesday, I would honestly be deeply disappointed because I would have nothing to look forward to in terms of rewards for my favorite game mode. I want to reach the bar they’ve set for it, not cry until they lower the bar to my level. I understand for some players, like the OP, it seems impossibly daunting, but I feel the same way when I look at the requirements for raids

You would absolutely have things to look forward to. Anet lowering the requirement to 1000 doesn’t mean you automatically have the full set. You have to continue to actively participate and purchase all of T2 before purchasing T3. That takes an enormous amount of time considering how slowly tickets come in per week and how much each piece of armor costs.

Also I understand where you’re coming from with raids seeming daunting. They did to me too at first until a guildie got me into them. After a couple weeks I realized that if I really wanted to, I could pump out an entire set of legendary armor in 16-20 weeks (it’s technically possible in 10 weeks). The difference for wvw rank is us veterans actually have a good idea of how long it does take considering that we’ve been playing the game mode for years.

It’s not a matter of lowering the requirement for pve/casual/new players. They should absolutely not be rewarded right now like veterans have. The matter is rewarding those veterans who have kept the game mode alive over all these years and barring them with a rank requirement that most don’t have is a heinous slap to the face for all the time and effort they have put in.

Jayne.9251:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You don’t technically need 99% of any gear in this game, acquiring gear in gw2 is end game content. If you don’t get gear whats the point? There is no vertical gear progression like in other mmo’s this is the end game, collectors and completionists are drawn to gw2 as an mmo for this reason.

So I guess we can sum up your pages of posts in a single sentence: “They should lower the requirement because I want it.”

What happens after you get it? Anet will have to come up with yet more content or shinies to keep you playing?

P.S. The end-game content is WvW.

He’s making the following argument:

They should lower the requirement because statistically speaking, it takes too long to earn it in comparison to earning the same level of gear from any other game mode.

He gave numbers and evidence to back that up.

RabbitUp.8294:

Here are my predictions, aka the worst timeline.

Instead of making a spec that stands on its own feet, Firebrand will be anet’s attempt to break the druid+mesmer meta.

So, firebrand will have 2 possible builds: a “condiPS” for quickness, i.e. ~20k dps and perma quickness stacking, and a healer/tank that stacks quickness. Druid and mesmers will still be run at 1, but firebrand will not provide any unique buffs of its own, so it will be an alternative, but not a raid staple.

Mesmer will retain its monopoly on aoe invulnerabilty, but either engi’s holosmith or necro’s scourge will get a clone of portal.

More specifically about firebrand. Each tome will have a symbol, F1 pulses quickness, F2 resistance, F3 stability. The first will be the cornerstone of the spec, along with a mantra that grants quickness and Feel my Wrath.

Axe will not have a symbol, the logic being that if have access to axe, you also have access to tomes to get symbols from.

Interesting speculation. This fits in rather nicely with another speculation I’ve seen stating that the new Seraph stat prefix (Condi, Prec, Healing Power, Concentration) being obtainable in Lake Doric, where you find Logan (a guardian who is healing and feels his body is “changing”) is a hint towards what Firebrand is going to be.

Symbols on virtue-tomes sounds wonderful but I think it would be unlikely considering what symbols are currently capable of on the right build: imagine 5 symbols per guardian, stacked on a single enemy.

I think a symbol on axe is more likely. We can speculate very little from the leaked image but in my opinion, the icon of one of the axe skills (axe 2) suggests it could be a melee-ranged aoe/whirl. I’d say it’s pretty likely that a symbol could be attached to this skill. The other skill (axe 3) looks like it could be a powerful leap/strike or an axe throw at your target.

Belorn.2659:

Have you tried to ask them nicely to leave when the map is full? Some people will respond friendly when friendly spoken to.

This is adorable

Noblehawk.8036:

Thing is…

If rank requirement is too low we will end up having pve players in wvw who are there only to farm the item. They will not stay and will not contribute anything meaningful to the wvw community, except long ques and permanent karma trains with very little combat skills.

Rank requirements have to be so high that 99% of the farmers give up because it is too much work, effort and time for them.

We already see how much problems we have with the back item as it is too easy to get.

Rank 1000 will still take 6-12 months (way closer to 12 months for most) depending on server/guild. Do you really think a vast number of pve players are going to come in and farm specifically for these skins for a year or more then drop wvw altogether?

somewhatobsessed.6309:

People here seem to be forgetting that the 2000 rank requirement is only for the Sublime T3 chest, not the entire T3 set. The first piece is available at rank 1500, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. If the requirement for the Sublime chest is reduced to rank 1000, then each of the previous parts must be reduced in turn, meaning the T3 gloves become available at 500.

Is this seriously what you’re suggesting? Because, in my humble opinion, rank 500 is far too low for this set of rewards. It’s nothing to an average dedicated WvWer (which, I suspect, most of those protesting this requirement are not).

To reiterate my previous comment, McKenna herself said that the T3 was designed as a prestige reward for vets with “crazy high ranks.” Five hundred is decidedly not "crazy high.* I’ve earned almost 100 ranks in the last two weeks with minimal effort, playing as I normally do (some zerging, but mostly roaming/back-capping and sitting in towers/camps). I don’t particularly care how acquiring this reward compares to other game modes, only how it functions in this game mode, and in this game mode, rank 2000 is no big deal if you actually play WvW.

Again, learn to deal with the fact that if you’re not a high-ranked, dedicated WvWer, this reward was not designed with you (much less a new player) in mind. If you want it, work for it.

Or they could just make the entire set require 1 rank (1000 or 1500) and not spread it out over a range? 500 is too low so I really don’t see them doing 500-1000.

The problem with this argument though is there are many of us who are dedicated WvWers. We’ve been in the game mode for over a year and actively participate in it for hours every night and are still no where near rank 2000.

As of right now and in general, that 2000 rank requirement is met by (groups not mutually exclusive):

• Commanders/tags
• K-trainers or ppters
• Players who have generally been playing in wvw for longer than 2-3 years (1-3 hours per day).
• Players who are part of elite fighting guilds that are also fairly large (and have been playing for about a year or more).

This tends to exclude:

• Camp/tower flippers, yak killers (roamers/havoc)
• Tower and camp defenders
• Yak runners, siege buildiers/operators, repairs
• Scouts
• The majority of zerg-guild players (been playing the game mode for 0.5 to 2.5 years)

While groups from the first list there deserve the best rewards, the groups from the 2nd list are no less important to keeping the game mode alive. They should not be stiffed, ESPECIALLY not that last group since they contribute to the game mode the most (as a group). Lowering the rank requirement to 1500 or 1000 would reward this group without really harming the groups from the first list and without making the rewards easily accessible to casual or new players.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Arcaedus.7290:

mrauls is a seasoned pvp player, he’s not having l2p issues. I’m guessing he’s making this suggestion as a way to boost guardian’s viability in spvp.

I think I’d be fine with this change if engi’s were allowed to cancel elixir s early as well.

Theres a slight difference, one is for a pure invuln, another is an invuln with gaining 3 abilities back. There’s more to the guardians then the engi’s so the comparison isn’t even the same. I may not be a guardian main anymore but personally I think its fine where it is. He may be “seasoned”, but there are lots of guardians that still make it work. Its all about how you set it up (so a slight l2p)

The only reason I made that suggestion is that vs. an experienced player or team, they know when that invuln is going to wear off and can often times land a burst before you can even dodge, right out of the invuln. The skill that was supposed to be a defensive peel is now a liability.

I’m sure mrauls and many other guardians have plenty of ways to work around this so the suggestion was likely made to give guardians another subtle but nice tool that wouldn’t really upset balance. If guardian received this change, I think it’s only fair that the most similar skill out there which suffers from the same problem also receives it.

Sly.9518:

Arcaedus.7290:

Set.7461:

Arcaedus.7290:

That’s a fine argument and one I totally agree with but using thar argument, you could justify a 3k, or 4k rank. Hell, even up to 8-10k (max rank) would be perfectly fine because the “real” wvw veterans have high rank due to their activity in the game mode.

I’m fine with it being increased. I see too many so-called “legendaries” in the game. Seeing someone with the armor(specifically the chestpiece) will show how much time he put into the game mode.

I think I’d be fine with a 2-5k rank requirement as well if it was legendary armor but it’s not. It’s simply ascended armor that really only functions as a skin since you would have the T2 ascended armor before purchasing T3. It only offers a bit of glowy effects (which aren’t necessarily a positive for wvw players) and has a small advantage of not requiring any crafting to purchase.

So what you are saying is that since it’s just a skin that it’s meaningless to change the requirements. Since you know it’s just skin and nothing else

I’m saying that for what it is right now, its rank requirements are not okay. They could keep the requirements the same and change the item itself but that’s unlikely.

mrauls is a seasoned pvp player, he’s not having l2p issues. I’m guessing he’s making this suggestion as a way to boost guardian’s viability in spvp.

I think I’d be fine with this change if engi’s were allowed to cancel elixir s early as well.

Set.7461:

Arcaedus.7290:

That’s a fine argument and one I totally agree with but using thar argument, you could justify a 3k, or 4k rank. Hell, even up to 8-10k (max rank) would be perfectly fine because the “real” wvw veterans have high rank due to their activity in the game mode.

I’m fine with it being increased. I see too many so-called “legendaries” in the game. Seeing someone with the armor(specifically the chestpiece) will show how much time he put into the game mode.

I think I’d be fine with a 2-5k rank requirement as well if it was legendary armor but it’s not. It’s simply ascended armor that really only functions as a skin since you would have the T2 ascended armor before purchasing T3. It only offers a bit of glowy effects (which aren’t necessarily a positive for wvw players) and has a small advantage of not requiring any crafting to purchase.

Nikkinella.8254:

If you’re only getting 1 per hour, you’re doing something wrong.

Um no? That’s actually pretty average assuming no boosters. Around 1-2 per hour is what I average, usually closer to 1 if we’re not having that great of a night in terms of fights.

Again, to everyone defending the 2k rank requirement:

The argument you are using is that the T3 armor is supposed to be a prestigious reward intended for the wvw veterans who have been playing the game mode every day and keeping it alive. A rank requirement is necessary because it’s not a problem for a wvw veteran but would gate or stop a newcomer or casual player from earning this same wvw exclusive armor and leaving.

That’s a fine argument and one I totally agree with but using thar argument, you could justify a 3k, or 4k rank. Hell, even up to 8-10k (max rank) would be perfectly fine because the “real” wvw veterans have high rank due to their activity in the game mode.

Try looking at this from a different point of view. If you want to reward people who consistently put in the time and effort into wvw over long periods of time, you have to consider what players are contributing to wvw, how much time and effort they put in and about what rank they would be after putting in all that time and effort. You also have to consider the reward at hand (it’s a wvw exlusive skin and only ascended armor; it’s not on the level of legendary armor).

There is obviously a spectrum of players when it comes to how much time/effort they’ve put in and what rank they are but you have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to calling them veterans and considering their contribution important. None of you have access to any hard data that could sway this argument but what you CAN do is ask some players who you regularly see in wvw how long they’ve been playing, how often they play each night and what rank they are. If you could be bothered to do that, you’d find:

• Most are above rank 500 at least but most are not above rank 2000.
• Most of the regulars have been playing the game mode for longer than 4-6 months.
• Players gain on average 1 rank per hour, maybe 2-3 if they’re in a large and excellent fight guild and/or use boosters).
• Most gain wvw rank at a rate of about 1000 per year.
• For commanders, people in large, highly active T1 server fight guilds or K-trainers, they are of course going to be of higher rank for the same amount of time played.
• From what I’ve found, only those who have been playing for 3 or more years tend to be above 2000 with only a couple exceptions.

There are some I talked to who have been playing 1-2 years and are above rank 2000. They tended to put in 2-3 hours per night, tended to play rev/guard/ele/necro, almost exclusively zergged and were from very decent and active fight guilds. I don’t think these guys represent the average wvw veteran. They’re the cream of the crop for sure but rewards aren’t trophies and aren’t only for the best of the best. They’re for those who put in honest time and effort.

I actually went out and talked to people to get this data. I’m not basing my arguments on personal opinion or belief unlike some of you. In fact, as enflamed as I was about that 2k rank requirement at first, I didn’t post anything on the forums. I waited, talked to people over the course of a week to see if maybe I just sucked at gaining wvw rank or was doing something terribly wrong and it turns out that’s not the case.

Conclusion I’ve reached after thinking about this for so long: A rank requirement is necessary, but a 2k rank requirement is a bit too high. To more inclusively reward the wvw veterans who deserve it without giving handouts to new or casual players, the rank requirement should be lower but not too low. I’m in favor of making it at or close to 1000 because this would nicely accomplish the goals Anet had set out for when releasing this feature pack.

SkyShroud.2865:

Arcaedus.7290:

I gurantee you that had June 6th rolled around, and the rank requirement been originally set at 1k or 1.5k, the few of you praising the 2k rank requirement wouldn’t have lifted a single finger to argue that it should be higher.

How sure are you that people won’t argue for 500 rank then?

Oh one can never be sure but I think a rank req of at least 1000 is a better requirement because:

• It’s a rank milestone, you unlock every possible wvw rank “mastery” at rank 1000.
• It is not a simple task; someone can not come in and grind for a month or two and hit rank 1000.
• It would be more inclusive of the core of majority of players that regularly play wvwand have kept the game mode alive since so many of them are close to or above rank 1000.

So essentially rank 1000 req does everything the rank 2000 req does. It prevents new or casual players from receiving handouts while also expanding the amount of people to include more players who deserve the reward. Unfortunately roamers/havoc still get stiffed but there really isn’t much that can be done at that point since lowering the req to 500 may be too low.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

There is a false equivalency being used here. People are trying to equate how long it takes to get armor X and assuming armor Y should be similar in length. Anet made no such claim and using as a fact is disingenuous.

The armor requirements are fine. Sure some people want things easy and will make up whatever arguments they can concoct to justify their position. But none of it is based on any published statements from Anet.

You are technically correct. This is Anet’s game and they have indeed never made any sort of statement that rewards should be equivocal nor have they implied it.

It’s a reasonably valid comparison though: it’s ascended armor to (essentially) ascended armor. The assumption is that the end goal is to achieve ascended armor of some sort by spending time in a particular game mode so now we have the most important variables set constant and can examine/compare one variable between game modes, which is the time it takes to achieve that armor.

While some people want the T3 armor easy, others like myself do not. If I wanted it easy, I’d be complaining about the skirmish ticket acquisition rate because honestly that’s more a of a limiting factor given how close I am to rank 2000.

I take issue with the rank requirement because after 2.5 years of playing a game mode, I’m being told that I’m not eligible to earn a piece of gear related to that game mode which is not reasonable. No other piece of gear in the entire game is that harsh in terms of time commitment. I’m also not alone in this sentiment as there are plenty of other players in the same boat; wvw veterans who have been playing the game mode as intended for 1 or more years but do not yet have rank 2000 because they don’t K-train or command. Everyone (about 12-15 players now from my server) I have talked to that isn’t a tag has given me the same stats: about 1 rank per hour of gameplay and about 1000 ranks earned per year playing the game. Perhaps these are only as reliable as anecdotes or case studies but it’s more evidence than you’re providing that rank 2000 is reasonable.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I did the math awhile ago, but CF is only a dps loss against power sword AA. Against any other AA or when hybrid/Condi, it’s a dps gain even against sword and 3 targets. With Permeating Wrath and 3+targets, it’s a quality damage skill. Its biggest problem is the hard to notice ally cleanse. I’d prefer if they changed the condition cleanse to once every three pulses and include the caster, but if they don’t change anything I just want to know how effective that condition cleansing was.

I also want Jesus Beam back. Rabbit’s proposal is very close to perfect.

I’ve stopped claiming CF is a dps loss since you last mentioned this but in a pvp or wvw scenario I think it’s unfavorable to use CF over auto attack in most cases. If CF received a substantial buff or additional benefits I think we’d see more guardians running torch and actually using this skill.

Just as an aside: As of right now, I burst hard when I fight burn guardians and they start using CF because I know I’m going to come out on top of the trade; have been right every single time.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Arcaedus.7290:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

2000 is very reasonable compared to all other game modes. Well done Anet!

Compared to other game modes; no it certainly is not.

It most certainly is.

Your wall of text was all guess work and conjecture. As you said, crude math which is meaningless math.

Your premise that because legendary takes X long, therefore T3 wvw ascended should be Y long is pulled out of thin air. There is nothing that anet has ever said where these things should be equivalent.

As for insults from wvw people. Calling snowflake arguments a snowflake argument isn’t insulting, its an observation.

Again, well done Anet.

And what argument do you provide to support your opinion on 2k rank requirement being fair? Is it because that’s the rank requirement that Anet set?

Newsflash: Anet has and does make poor decisions from time to time. There isn’t a completely free flow of inter-team communication so it’s happened before that one aspect of the game seems well designed whereas an analogous aspect in a different game mode does not.

I gurantee you that had June 6th rolled around, and the rank requirement been originally set at 1k or 1.5k, the few of you praising the 2k rank requirement wouldn’t have lifted a single finger to argue that it should be higher.

RabbitUp.8294:

VoJ alone is not enough. Best case scenario is using Cleansing Flame on 3 targets (which is the cap, btw, when Ele’s Drake’s Breath is capped at 5) with the VoJ trait, and even then, it’s 9 stacks of burning for 2 sec each.

Compare that to Ranger’s Bonfire that does 9 stacks of 2½s burning to 5 targets, without any requirements or channel time and has the added utility of being a fire field.

This is actually a good point. When you start comparing guardian’s torch to other classes’ torch skills , guardians can only apply burning on one of their torch skills and it’s through an extremely unreliable projectile (due to its outdated or bad coding, I can’t tell which). This skill is also single target…all other classes are capable of applying burn with either of their torch skills and are capable of applying an aoe burn. Cleansing Flame’s “aoe” is pitiful compared to that of any other class and is effectively single target due to how narrow it is.

Likely the devs intended for torch 5 to synergize with virtue of justice but even then it’s very mediocre and only in a few scenarios does it actually provide decent burning… such as when attacking a group of enemies and having Permeating Wrath traited.

Both torch skills, but especially Cleansing Flame could really use some love. Hope they have something on the chopping block!

Blockhead Magee.3092:

2000 is very reasonable compared to all other game modes. Well done Anet!

Compared to other game modes; no it certainly is not.

Knowing now that 2k rank is required and that Anet doesn’t seem to be going back on this bad decision, yes, you can do more to earn rank quicker by utilizing boosters/guild buffs and playing during prime time….

But in the past and up till now, wvw players who did not use boosters and simply played wvw as intended, earned ranks as a function of time. For those who didn’t K-train or weren’t tags, they earned ranks at somewhere between 0.8 to 2 ranks per hour. Claiming that 2k rank requirement is fair means that you think requiring 1000 hours in a game mode (at minimum) just to earn armor specific to that game mode is fair. I guarantee you it wouldn’t take me or anyone else that long to earn a full set of legendary armor starting raids from scratch.

In fact, some quick and crude math:
-15 raid bosses. Say you take an hour per each raid boss to read about them, watch videos and learn as much about how to fight them on your preferred class as possible = 15.
- You spend 5 hours gearing yourself up appropriately then another 5 learning the rotations and just golem-practicing = 10
- You spend 3 hours per day for two weeks just practicing and learning with actual experience how to fight the bosses = 42 (lets round up to 50).
- You then begin the process of aiming towards earning the achievements, taking out each boss and capping your weekly magnetite shards. Assuming you are meeting and pushing the time-gates on relevant achievements, it would take you 10 weeks minimum. However, since you’re inefficient lets say 16 weeks. Lets say you spend 3 hours per day every week = 3 × 7 × 16 = 336 (lets round up to 350).

Total: 425 hours. Not even half as much time required to earn full legendary compared to being able to purchase just one piece of T3 ascended armor.

RabbitUp.8294:

Focus
- Ray of Judgment:
This skill doesn’t even deserve the name of such a cool gw1 skill in its current state, and it’s very slow and unreliable.

New skill: Ground-targeted aoe (900 range, 240 radius). A beam of light that pulses 2s of blind on enemies and cures condition on allies each second. 4 second duration (4 pulses total).

Shield
- Shield of Judgment:
I think it’s the most ok of the 3. Still, it could use some extra utility.

Cast time reduced from 1/2 to 1/4. The wave reflects projectiles.

Torch
- Cleansing Flame:
With Ray of Judgment being the condi cleanse, torch can be the offensive weapon it’s supposed to be.

Channel time reduced from 3¼ to 2¼. Still hits 9 times, now also applies 1 stack of burning (4s) with every 3rd pulse (3 stacks of buring total)

I like your proposed changes overall but here are a couple comments and annexes to your suggestions:

Ray of Judgement: Perfect. I think this would be a good change without making it op.

Shield of Judgement: This skill is actually very well-balanced and in a good spot right now. You seem to be denying the fact that:

• It’s not a projectile but has considerable range and aoe to it.
• Hits up to 5 targets and allies, this is pretty huge and can be a game changer on the right build.
• Actually does fair damage in addition to the aegis and protection it applies (I’ve downed quite a few thieves with this skill).
• Has a decent cooldown.
  I don’t think it needs a cast time reduction, 1/2s is fair considering it’s role on a team-support off-hand. It also doesn’t need to reflect projectiles since shield 5 already blocks projectiles.

Cleansing Flame: Upping the total damage, adding more burn or lowering the total cast time (which would up the dps) is necessary imo since you’re right, this is primarily an offensive skill but unfortuantely doesn’t serve that purpose very well right now. Additionally though, I think it should also clear condis from self which would allow you to offensively clear condis and maintain some damage (as either power or burn guard). This would make torch an excellent off-hand for both power builds (as an offensive off-hand vs. condi builds) and condi builds (it’s the obvious offhand for any and all burn guards).

schloumou.3982:

What you guys actually say is there shouldnt be any skin rewards for high ranks and I think thats not healthy. There should be more skins for those freaks up to the 10k rank and the dominator title for example because its cool if you see a intimidating looking guy from far and know he killed more than 250k people on the battlefield and it encourages folks to do that stuff.

Good point but honestly those guys sort of deserve to have not just a fancy skin but to have legendary armor… which is unfortunately not going to happen since Anet has stated that they only intend to give access to that through raids. :/

I’ve seen someone suggest that T3 should be kept as is, requirement-wise, but be upgraded to legendary armor which is something I think many of us would be fine with (even increasing the rank requirement at this point would be more than fair).

The way it is right now though, it’s ascended gear with no additional benefits over T2 (other than slightly more shiny which isn’t a benefit for those of who watch our fps) and for what it’s worth, I think most wvw veterans deserve to be able to buy it yet many can’t.

Permafrost.2695:

Wow. Our off-hand weapons are stellar. All of the skills are great as is. If you want to buff them, I’m not going to argue. To say they are currently bad boggles my mind.

Ray of judgement is an ESSENTIAL condi clear in the condi met in sPvP. Cleansing flame is the same for WvW. And shield of judgement is a huge source of DPS in shattered aegis builds.

Ray of judgement is a mediocre condi clear. It can be avoided by someone who simply runs backwards or has average reflexes. Assuming you’re standing directly in front of your taget, it’s going to take you 1-1.25 seconds to clear 2 condis (which is very poor compared to the condis cleared:cast time ratio of every other active clear guardians have). It is also a projectile which puts the guard at the mercy of reflects/destroys. All of that on a 20s cd? I’d say it stands for at least a small buff.

Prysin.8542:

The issue is that people want “stuff” without any investment in a game-mode they dislike. Well tough luck. Plenty of WvW players hate PvE, but that doesnt stop them from gritting their teeth for hours on end trying to achieve what they want.

Also, as a sidenote. in 4 weekends of 22 hours of gameplay per weekend. With Birthday (celebration) and Heroic booster + hero banner, i have aqcuired 85 WvW levels…. Sure, you need to get boosters. But most hard-core PvE players has racked up A LOT of gold or crafting materials to sell to gain gold. And can thus choose to spend money or gold to get gems and buy a few boosters.

Playing a class and build advied by commanders/veteran WvW players will reduce your chance of dieing, while increasing your time killing enemies (gaining WvW EXP).

BUT LET US ADRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THIS ROOM. PVE PLAYERS, LIKE ALWAYS, JUST WANT SHINY STUFF, DOESN’T WANT TO ENGAGE IN WVW AND EXPECT THAT WVW PLAYERS SHOULD BE CONTEMPT WITH BEING TREATED LIKE A UNWANTED CHILD

You’re making a lot of assumptions about the people who want the rank lowered. I want stuff because I HAVE invested a large amount of time AND effort into a game mode. I mainly zerg vs. zerg with a small side of havoc. Conservative estimate: 1500 hours over the past 2.5 years. That’s a LOT. If I had spent even a quarter this much time in any other game mode, I’d easily be able to afford any one shiny piece of armor I sought.

Prysin.8542:

GrahamW.5397:

rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.

yeah, its a bloody insult to WvW veterans to lower the rank of WvW specific armor.

It’s far worse a bloody insult to wvw veterans who have been playing the game mode almost exclusively for 1 to 3 years to get slapped in the face by a 2k rank requirement when many are significantly below that.

Wvw veterans know that wvw rank isn’t a good measure of your contribution to the server and is only a weak indicator of how much time you have spent in the game mode.

Those with greater than 2k rank requirement are still rightly receiving more; they earn more pips per tick which is a pretty significant bonus that someone of lower rank can’t compensate for assuming equal play time per day.

There is no reason not to lower the rank requirement for T3 armor down to 1000 or even just 1500. A requirement of 1000 still keeps it prestigious and prevents new players from just coming in and briefly grinding for a skin before leaving.

It will actually be more encompassing in rewarding the target playerbase (the wvw veterans) since most “veterans” and wvw regulars who have put a lot of time and effort in tend to be around or well above rank 1000.

I don’t think any but the most elitist and stuckup would be offended to see a rank 1000 wvw player in T3 armor so it wouldn’t devalue the armor by making it more common.

Finally, a new player who plays for a while and is smart enough to realize how gaining wxp works may reasonably figure out that they can achieve rank 1000 in less than a year (but certainly in no less than a month or two) so if they were motivated by T3 armor, they may be more encouraged to regularly play and participate in wvw for a few months and achieve it after a considerable amount of time as opposed to seeing a 2k rank requirement and not even trying wvw since it’s much more out of reach.

I really only see good in lowering the rank requirement. People here seem to think that we want the rank requirement removed or are salty pve players who just want the skins but that plain and simply isn’t the case. We like the rank requirement idea but 2k is just a bit too high since it excludes a majority of wvw veterans.

schloumou.3982:

Arcaedus.7290:

Nice try but this is once again a strawman argument. There are some very key differences such that you can’t draw a parallel like that:

The rewards for AP achievement chests have been present since the beginning of the game (as far as I’m aware). There has and always will be an incentive to AP hunt and also methods to expedite AP hunting that aren’t dependent upon other players.

Rewards for World XP have not been present until recently. There has never been incentive to AP hunt and this meter only applies to wvw, not all game modes. There are ways to expedite wxp gain but even still it is greatly dependent upon your and your server’s performance in wvw.

Yeah you keep accusing me of that and it makes me wonder if you actually know what that means. I specifically referred to your points beeing negligence of certain playstyles, availability of ascended armor without rankrequirement and absence of negative impact of lower rank requirement. You on the other hand keep ignoring arguments like devaluation of skins by making them less rare, generalization of high ranks as eotmfarmers, accessibility of equal unique skins for lower ranks in two versions aswell as ascended gear without rank requirements. The “I said 1500? I meant 1000 because most vets i know are about that rank”-point was ignored by me because you cant base an argument on a subjective felt number. The only ones with the acurate numbers are Anet which chose the actual rank to ensure a certain rarity.
Now please explain to me how your last post supports your general position because i fail to see how the incentive to reach a righ rank alters the achievement.

The reason I say 1000 to 1500 is because the way T3 armor currently is gated, you need rank 1500 (starting at gloves) ramping up to 2000 (for chest piece). There is no way they would change the ramp down to 500-1000. Personally I’d prefer a smaller ramp and having all pieces attainable at near 1000 rank but a 1000 to 1500 ramp makes the most sense while still being fair: rank 1000 shows you have poured in a large mount of time to wvw and have contributed to your server and the extra 500 rank shows that you have gone above and beyond.

Devaluing the skins by decreasing rarity? Right. I’m sure the ENORMOUS amount of players with 2k+ rank would be oh so offended to see a casual wvw fairweather scrub of rank 1000 to 1500 with T3 ascended armor.

I thought so on that last point. And you know; it may be subjective but ask around a bit and you’ll find my perception to hold fairly true. I didn’t just start rage posting here, I talked with guildies and fellow wvwers to see if maybe all these 2.5 years, I had been doing it wrong when it came to ranks… and no, I haven’t. So many others are in just as bad if not a worse off boat than mine

It’s true, Anet does have the data and purposely made the decision to place the rank requirement at 2000 but I think that was still done with a poor grasp of how trivial/unimportant rank is and how difficult it is to increase one’s rank. What they failed to grasp is that there are a large amount of players who have put in hours every night for 1-2+ years into playing wvw yet still fall into the 700 to 1500 wvw rank range.

These players should definitely have stood to benefit from the feature pack. My argument is to lower the rank requirement to a more reasonable rank, not gut it and not eliminate it. It’s not like this would at all devalue the time that those with 2k+ rank have put into the game. People who have out a lot of time and effort into wvw deserve to be able to buy presitigous wvw armor. This is something that I think everyone agrees on. What we don’t agree on is what rank constitutes “lot of time and effort.”

schloumou.3982:

I allways laughed at AP hunters and told them AP mean nothing but then I found out there is a Radiant Chestpiece Skin which I like. Do you guys know how long it would take to get 30k AP? I have spend the last years in all gamemodes so I really think I deserve all the skins in the game. Pls lower the requirement to 2k ap because that can be done by new players in a reasonable amount of time.

Nice try but this is once again a strawman argument. There are some very key differences such that you can’t draw a parallel like that:

The rewards for AP achievement chests have been present since the beginning of the game (as far as I’m aware). There has and always will be an incentive to AP hunt and also methods to expedite AP hunting that aren’t dependent upon other players.

Rewards for World XP have not been present until recently. There has never been incentive to AP hunt and this meter only applies to wvw, not all game modes. There are ways to expedite wxp gain but even still it is greatly dependent upon your and your server’s performance in wvw.

Vavume.8065:

Arcaedus.7290:

Indeed it is. You also need to buy T2 in order to buy T3 so earning T3 is essentially just for a skin.

It’s not just a skin, it’s ascended armor.

So is T2 which is vastly more accessible than T3. A lot of people who are complaining about T3 armor don’t realize that they’re going to have a full set (or at least one piece) of ascended armor well before they get to T3 armor. People who go on to buy T3 armor are either

A. doing it for the skin

B. Purchasing it with saved up tickets if they suddenly need an ascended piece of armor.

Point B was addressed by ArchonWing nicely earlier; by the time you earn enough tickets for a piece, you’ll likely have significant materials stored up from your play-time that you could just craft a piece of ascended armor. Better to save tickets now for future rewards, the backpiece or skins you are actually interested in.

Thelgar.7214:

So if I had been working at ranking, I’d have done it in about 20 weeks, or four months. I spent a lot of that time in small groups, seizing an objective and waiting for people to come to fight for it in non-NA-Prime hours. So if you really wanted it faster, you could have done more rank worthy things by joining larger groups in your server’s prime time.

Yeah this is true for all of us who aren’t rank 2000 but as has been pointed out before, no one has really focused on grinding out wvw ranks past rank 1000 since there was never any incentive.

Upon releasing time-gated wvw gear, Anet should have more carefully considered what rank most veterans would be at and pick a number very close to this. This really depends on how Anet defines “veteran” or what they think should have been accomplished by a player who has dedicated a lot of time to the game mode but as of the release of this feature pack, I think rank 2000 is high-balling it.

ArchonWing.9480:

But the thing is I am certain that with the new rewards, a few month’s worth of materials will cover crafting. much less for longer time periods. Even if the rank were 1000 or less, that would just never be a factor for me. I mean free gear is always good, don’t get me wrong, but it has to be something that alters my trajectory.

I think there would be more argument if people were forced into an unnatural gaming style, but to me it is just plain rewarding WvW’ers for doing mostly what they were always doing anyways.

And yes I know there’s pip farming or whatnot, but each to their own.

You make good points. I’m approaching this from the viewpoint of Anet making a statement to the GW2 population rather than the viewpoint of the affordability (or lack thereof) of the T3 armor. Their statement seems to involve:

• Rank is indicative of server contribution.

• T3 ascended armor should only effectively be available to those who have dedicated a lot of time to wvw.

• Those who have dedicated a lot of time to wvw and have thus contributed a lot to their server should at least be at a higher rank than rank 2000.

The first point is true but the correlation is very weak. The second point I mostly agree with. I dislike that it is effectively impossible for a newcomer to achieve it but more important is the fact that wvw players are being rewarded with something prestigious (but not better) for their time put into the game mode.

The third point is what’s flat out wrong. There are other wvw activities that are important to the server that don’t get rewarded nearly as much as commanding, K-training or ppt-ing are. The more someone participates in those activities, the less rank they’re going to earn. Not to mention, historically we have never focused on ranks since past 1000 they never meant anything. Ranks just came in as a function of time for the majority of players.

Given all of this, it’s extremely likely that someone who has (subjectively) contributed a LOT to their server over a long period of time has not achieved rank 2000 and may not even be close. I really can’t imagine the developers thinking all of this through, then deciding “yep, don’t care, rank 2000.”

schloumou.3982:

T2 is ascended and has no rankrequirement. It just dont has LEDs. You can be happy now or keep spreading misinformation on purpose to get your will but your posts are flimsy as hell.

I know that and so does anyone else who has spent a few minutes considering what is actually required to achieve the T3 armor. We want the 2k rank requirement lowered, not eliminated; a rank requirement obviously needs to be there for at least the reason of stopping a new player from coming in, spending a couple months (or less) to get fancy skins, then leaving.

How about you actually address my points rather than making accusations without any proof? I came here to make logical arguments for a change that will benefit everyone so you can be a part of that or explain who exactly wouldn’t be benefitting from the changes I suggested.

ArchonWing.9480:

T2 is also ascended no? And it would be more straightforward to craft anyways.

I don’t know. I think the prestiege item is the legendary. But I guess I place a low value on things like that. To me, the 2k armor is the equivalent of a t-shirt that says “I played WvW for 4 years and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!” and I don’t think that’s a bad thing specifically since anything that impacts the game, is found at t2 already.

I personally wouldn’t mind 1000 myself, as that’s when you max out all abilities, which seems like a landmark. It really depends on what they were aiming for.

Indeed it is. You also need to buy T2 in order to buy T3 so earning T3 is essentially just for a skin. Again, those who have passionate arguments about the rank requirement aren’t complaining about not having access to gear (since we have access to the T2 asc armor and asc armor from other game modes).

It’s more a matter of getting that “t-shirt” or just being able to have an emergency go-to if we suddenly need a piece of ascended gear without wanting to craft. After 1+ years in the game mode, I think a player deserves to have that and I think Anet would agree if they would revisit and scrutinize that 2k rank requirement.

ArchonWing.9480:

It’s a single optional skin.

I think legendaries are a waste of time. I think getting to fractal 100 is a waste of time. If I didn’t play WvW I’d see it the same way.

There’s plenty of stuff to work for even before rank 2000 by far. But people have to fixate over that one thing. Why? Why not work on the other stuff first?

Indeed it is. Also, the t2 armor is much more accessible. The problem I find, is that Anet would dare imply that someone who only plays one game mode for 1-3 years hasn’t put enough effort into that game mode to be at least capable of buying one piece of gear related to that game mode.

Being able to buy stat-selectable ascended armor without needing to craft it is pretty presitgious and rewarding but the limiting factor should be the currency which depends on ACTIVE participation….not wvw rank, which is not a very good indicator as to how much someone has contributed to their server. There does need to be a rank requirement since it obviously correlates at least somewhat with wvw participation which is the reward that veterans deserve to have but 2000 is too high.

schloumou.3982:

Arcaedus.7290:

If there is gear available to those committed to wvw, I would think the dedicated players who play the game as “intended” would deserve it, not just EotM K-trainers and commanders, don’t you think?

I really dislike the myth people like you are spreading that you have to be an eotm-farmer or ppt-hero to be that rank. I have fought with many great guys who put a lot of work in the community and reached way higher ranks without beeing in eotm more than twice and i find that not fair to them. Further you keep ignoring that there are also t1 and t2 rewards for the guys you refer to. Im mostly a roamer myself btw.

Fact of the matter is; most people are not that rank and a good many of people never will be. Maybe there a few players out there who have put in the same or less time than myself and due to playing more efficiently, or being lucky and playing on a server with awesome and fast-paced commanders and have achieved rank 2000+. Sure, these players exist but they are certainly not the majority or even plurality.

That 2k rank requirement is not fair to the rest of us who have put in the same if not more effort, but are being told that we haven’t put in enough effort to achieve gear related to the only game mode we play. And for those of us significantly below rank 2000 who may happen to want that t3 armor we essentially would have to ppt or K-train in order to achieve the required rank in a reasonable amount of time.

Look, I have virtually no interest in that T3 armor. I’m not trying to argue that rank down just so I can get my grubby hands on it. I have plenty of ascended acessories; can craft any weapon I’ll need and can easily earn ascended armor through fractals/raids. What I have an issue with is just the very idea that Anet would dare to imply that us wvw veterans who have been in the game mode for 1+ years haven’t put in enough effort to be worthy of wvw armor.

On their part, it is NOT a fair decision which is likely due to them being out of touch with how trivial and unimportant wvw rank is and/or how difficult it is to rank up. What I’m arguing is that they should lower the rank requirement so that the vast majority of wvw veterans would be able to afford the armor given they have the required tickets/other currency.

This may also encourage newcomers since a lower rank requirement means they may actually be able to get some good gear but only after investing a large amout of time in wvw… not the 1-2+ years like it would take them currently.

schloumou.3982:

Arcaedus.7290:

Regardless of my rank, I think that 2.5 years honestly and whole-heartedly playing one game mode entitles me to any piece of armor from that game mode. This would be true for literally any other content in the game.

And it does to all but one set. We need hard to get items to give them value. For example if i really enjoy killing skritts and mining nodes in one zone and do this for 3 years i have been playing pve for the whole time. So am I entitled to any armor or skin of that mode? No if i want HOPE i have to play a lot of aspects of the mode. Sorry but your post sums up to: My rank is 1600 so i think the best reward should be available at hmm…. around 1500.

Actually I think the rank should be closer to 1000. Most every person I know on my server that is considered to be a veteran is at least above rank 1000. It is only the pure roamers that are not. And while roamers get screwed (as usual) they play the way they do purely for enjoyment; more so than the zergs or commanders imo and fund themselves through other game modes or activities. If there is gear available to those committed to wvw, I would think the dedicated players who play the game as “intended” would deserve it, not just EotM K-trainers and commanders, don’t you think?

Your argument there is a bit of a strawman. Killing skritt/mining nodes in one region is not at all representative of pve. On the other hand, participating in zerg vs. zerg fights, capturing as well as defending points, scouting/callouts, running yaks/killing enemy yaks, building/manning siege and roaming/havocking is very representative of wvw. In fact, the only things I haven’t mentioned is commanding which is not something that everyone can do consistently.

The rank requirement is poorly thought out and is far too stringent. It absolutely needs to be lowered (but not by much). Lets go over some facts about the armor and rank requirement before I get to my argument:

• The t3 ascended armor (mistforged triumphant) is essentially the same as t2 ascended armor without requiring you to craft materials for purchase. The chest is quite glowy but the rest of the pieces are visually the same.

• The t3 ascended armor is likely meant for wvw veterans and not new players. New players or players who have not committed much time to wvw at all have other ways to acquire ascended armor: they can just buy the t2 armor, earn it from pvp or from fractals/raids. All of these alternative ways are far more effective than doing wvw for ascended armor.

• The t3 ascended armor requires certain ranks to buy ranging from 1500 to 2000.

• Historically, no one has really cared about ranking up past around rank 1000 since at that point you will already have all wvw exp you need for the upgrades. Essentially, wvw exp has come in as a function of time.

• It’s also not a good measure of how experienced you are, how much time you’ve put in or how useful you are to your server which is why no one particularly cares about rank.

Now then, for all of you who think the rank 2000 requirement is fair, let me give you a statistic that completely supersedes any argument you can muster:

- I have been playing this game for 3 years and been playing wvw for a good 2.25 to 2.5 years.
- I have 2700+ hours alone on my guardian (pretty much the only class I play).
- For the first year and a half, I devoted roughly 1 to 1.5 hours per night to wvw. About 1/3 of that is roaming and 2/3 zerging with a frontline guardian build.
- For the most recent year (since last June), I joined a much more dedicated wvw guild and have pumped on average 2.5 hours per night into wvw.
- Again there is a split but I’d say it lies far more towards zerging: probably 70:30 zerging : roaming.
- My rank has gone up only around 900-1000 in the past year.
- I use boosters on reset nights or during prime-time hours if I have them.
- Focus is split pretty good between fights and ppt, although the guild I’m in does a fair bit of ppt if we just can’t win the fights.
- A conservative estimate for the amount of hours I’ve put into wvw is 1700-2000.

After all of this I am not even rank 1600. At my current rate of ranking up, it will take me another 500 hours, or about 2/3 of a year to reach rank 2000. This is STILL ridiculous.

Regardless of my rank, I think that 2.5 years honestly and whole-heartedly playing one game mode entitles me to any piece of armor from that game mode. This would be true for literally any other content in the game. Instead, veterans like myself get slapped in the face with this 2k rank requirement nonsense which is an absolute insult to the amount of time and dedication we’ve put in to wvw.

This is NOT a matter of knowing the requirement and purposefully working on ranking up. This is a matter of rewarding veterans who play the game since that’s the intention behind t3 armor. I think anyone who has been in the game mode for a good year or more and is actually fighting and capping points deserves to be considered a veteran and deserves to have enough wvw ranks/badges/proofs of heroics/existing currencies to afford that armor. The ONLY thing that should gate veterans should be new currency (the tickets).

Anet, please lower the rank requirement. I think 1000-1500 (gloves-body armor) is fair. We understand that wvw armor is supposed to be prestigious and reward veterans primarily but instead, it only rewards a minor sect of players since the majority of veterans don’t have rank 2000. Lets also not forget that this armor is effectively unachievable by anyone who is new to wvw since yes, ranking up is most definitely time-gated.

Some additional statistics:

- I have a guildie who joined at the same time I did (last June). He is one of our tags and tags up maybe once every other week for 4-5 hours at a time. When not tagging, he runs with us, same as anyone else, for a good 1.5-3 hours per night. He is only rank 1100.

- Friend of mine has played this game since beta and has been playing wvw at least as long as I have. He never uses boosters and roams a bit more than he zergs. Is only rank 1400.
- Another guildie has played this game for 3.5 years and has spent 60% of of her time or more in wvw almost exclusively zerging. Is barely above rank 2000.

The 2k rank for asc armor is absolutely ridiculous and should be lower. There is absolutely no justification against this statistic:

I’ve been playing this game for just over 3 years now. The vast majority of my time (probably in excess of 80% of my time) has been spent in wvw. I do roam and havoc but also zerg, probably more on the zerg side of things. I’m rank 1540.

Honestly, I don’t even care what rank I am at this point, the time alone that I’ve put in merits me being able to clear any possible hurdle required for wvw-based rewards. (with exception of newly introduced currency, of course).

The rank requirement for the t3 armor should be between 500 and 1000. 2000 is excessive and demonstrates a clear lack of perception on the dev’s part as to how long it takes to rank up.

Tried out longbow in wvw last night. Ironically, the trueshot nerf in wvw hasn’t really felt noticeable in zerg fights (I tend not to use trueshot more than once per 6 seconds unless there are downs) but is pronounced enough in 1v1 or smaller quicker fights that I opt for scepter now instead. Like I’ve been saying, that wvw nerf exclusively hurt DH roamers which makes it a very poorly thought out change.

I honestly think one of the following changes should be made to trueshot or longbow for wvw to balance this nerf:

• Mobile casting while using trueshot – since there is still a very bright glow at your hands, this is a decent tell for avoiding it.

• Small to moderate damage increase (5 to 7%). Not my favorite resolution but it would be fair. Perhaps the damage increase would only appl when standing still.

• Add some sort of bonus incentive to use this skill. Examples: gain 1s stability while casting, gain swiftness, might or fury if the strike lands (perhaps more might per target struck), remove a boon on the opponent struck.

• Change how the skill works: right now it doesn’t benefit condi builds to use it at all. One possible fix that would help both power and condi builds would be to make trueshot a multi-strike attack like so:
  Same animation, cast time, cd and whatnot, but if trueshot hits a target, that target gets a small icon placed on them that pulses twice more within one second. The initial trueshot strike deals one third its current damage and the pulses deal 10 and 15% more damage and can each crit. This would be a damage buff for power builds, give synergy with virtue of justice passive for condi builds and the delayed damage gives more time for the affected target to heal, use protection and otherwise mitigate damage.

Really hope the devs listen to what is being said here. There is no explanation or justification for nerfing trueshot in wvw but not also bringing other class nerfs to wvw. Just as a reminder, we still have revenant hammer 2 (Coalescence of Ruin) critting 8 to 10k on people with 2800 armor and up, still has a 4s cd, has a far wider range (actually likely to hit 5 people), less obvious animation and is not reflectable. This is what should be getting wvw nerfs, not trueshot.

Sviel.7493:

I was literally about to make a thread with this title, lol.

Anet

True Shot: The recharge of this skill has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW.

That’s the only change that mentioned that it also applied in WvW. Other changes, like Warrior’s headbutt, were universal. The bulk of everything was PvP only.

I’m curious as to why they changed True Shot for WvW as well but didn’t change all the rest of the things. Was it an accident? Is there some master plan? I don’t think we’ll ever know…

That garbage trueshot change only hurts DH roamers/havoc squad and doesn’t affect zerg play whatsoever. Meanwhile rev hammer 2…