Guild Wars 2

Can we please get a confirmation message when vendoring ascended equipment already?

• There is already a system in place when attempting to delete gear (even non ascended), why not extend it to vendoring ascended equipment?

• Absolutely NO ONE purposely sells ascended equipment.

• Buy-back page clears if you change maps/loading screen. Some times it can be too late before you realize you’ve sold an ascended item to buy it back.

• Invisible bags don’t solve the issue.
  For example: if bag is full, equipping a weapon (2 handed to replace two 1h asc weapons), can deposit an ascended offhand weapon into a regular bag which opens it up to accidental vendoring.

I understand the support/ticket department is absolutely wonderful about refunding/returning mishandled equipment in game, but a good chunk of time and effort could be saved for them if such a very simple fix was made.

As much as you dislike being unable to tag someone right before they waypoint, I love having an entire zerg chase me on my roamer toon, popping invuln, and then waypointing while they uselessly try to tag me.

Git rekt.

Arricson Krei.9560:

From a small-scale roaming WvW point of view
Axe
Good power scaling on the AA. Condi application is a bit underwhelming in terms of the duration, especially since the range of AA is so short and the symbol takes a while to deliver only a few short-duration bleeds. Pull feels fair.

Mantras
I’d say they’re near useless if you and your allies are cc’d and you can’t position yourself to cleanse/stun break your allies. Often times I’ve had to stunbreak myself, turn around, then use Liberation. I propose they affect everyone in 180 radius aoe around you (Symbol sized) in addition to a lengthened mantra cone of 450/600.

• Solace: Self healing isn’t enough and scaling is low. Aegis application is difficult. Healing Breeze has been much much better.
• Lore: I think this mantra is good. 1-2s Resistance instead of regen?
• Truth & Flame: Underwhelming.
• Liberation: Because it’s an elite, I think the rules can be bent for this mantra. Make it a pbaoe of 360 radius and I think it’ll warrant use and compete with other Guard elites.

Tome of Justice
This tome feels pretty good, overall. A few number tweaks are appropriate:

• #2: Increase the range of pbaoe. It felt very unclear when the burning actually applies and from which center-point. Maybe change the function to: Cast #2 to gain 4 charges that are insta cast and apply burning to enemies nearby. No icd.
• #3: The long cast time coupled with the small aoe makes this ability hard to use at max range. Lower the cast time and keep the small aoe. Don’t want to be putting a huge converging pull on such a low cooldown. Also, the vfx does not match the time of the actual pull. Please reduce this visual noise.

Tome of Resolve
Base numbers and scaling needs to be tweaked.

• #1: Increase the base healing very slightly. Decrease the scaling. This will be the go to heal that non-healing power specs will use.
• #2: Cast time doesn’t make sense. Seems like the cast time was justified because we got a fancy new character animation. To keep the animation, pulse condi removal 3x (up from 2x) around character. Keep the radius.
• #3: A lot of people have been criticizing this skill. It does nothing but fuel boon corrupts. Give it a blast finisher.
• #4: Drop the base value. Drastically increase the scaling to about 1.8x, so at lvl 80 with 1200 healing power, it could heal nearly 3000 without modifiers. This will be the healing skill that healing power specs will use.

Tome of Courage
Overall I like this tome. Great support, stunbreak on #4. Rewards reactive counterplay.

• #2: Taunt in a small radius is a little strange. Could we add a resurrect component to this skill? 15% of their health.
• #5: Imo the toughness is a bit underwhelming but it’s a fair skill.

Traits

• Liberator’s Vow: I know this trait, and many others, proc once the ability is finished casting, but if the quickness triggered upon cast, then it could be paired with Healing Breeze for pretty good burst healing.
• Weighty Terms: Remove the 10s cooldown. Using the final cast of the mantra (and thus triggering the entire mantra’s cooldown) is the limit this this trait should come with.

I realize that most of the changes I called for are buffs, but Firebrand (and guardian in general) has built in counter-play considering all the boonhate —especially corrupt--
that is coming with this next xpac. Condi guard still relies on one condition, they are still hampered by no +25% passive movement speed trait/skill, Tomes are gated by long-ish cooldowns which I think is very fair, especially when traited. The mantras are very situational and if you stack mantras, you’re sacrificing a lot of potential utility for yourself and your team.

These are excellent suggestions, just as good if not better than the ones I’ve made. One major thing I’d append to this is the cast times and cooldowns of tomes. The average cast time of a skill within a tome should be 0.5s, not 0.75s. The cast time to enter a tome should be either 0.25s or instant. Cooldowns should reflect how effective the tomes can be in a combat situation. Right now, 2 out of 3 of them are too high. Cooldowns should be more like 25, 40, 55 (untraited) rather than this 30, 45, 90 nonsense we have right now. Traited, that puts us at 21.75, 34.75 and 48 seconds which I think are perfectly fair.

You may disagree, arguing that the cast times and cooldowns are justified given what the class is capable of /its intended purpose but ideals like this only hold up in ideal situations. The reality is; if a high-damage class manages to get the jump on a firebrand and is going ham, there is NOTHING a FB can do to stop them. FB cannot peel from a situation, has absolutely no gap openers, only two instant-cast skills (heal and elite) to combo-break with and no decent “oh shi-” buttons. It needs faster cast times and reasonable cool downs to be able to adapt to being focused in higher levels of game play.

This build most definitely does not one-shot you unless you are unsuspecting and the guard opens up with a burst that involves focus 5. I 1v1ed someone running this build 3 times yesterday, running marauder’s amulet (17k hp and 2.2k armor). At best, this build took off about 40% of my health in a well-timed burst but it definitely was not enough to put me down and fell off quickly as soon as their heal was on cd.

A note on that build: I agree with what Saiyan said. Old-school medi-guard with GS and x/focus would make better use of these traits.

I’ve noticed this sometimes happens sometimes with the camp veterans. From memory, I think the camp supervisors in the camps just north of fire keep and of air keep in DBL will occasionally give you glancing blows.

Just had this bug two nights ago. Couldn’t see the team chat at all whereas a handful of members in my guild were reading things someone was posting in the chat.

The cooldowns OP mentioned are not new since the demo weekend event.

I noticed that if virtues is traited and you enter, say ToJ, the cooldown you see after exiting isn’t exactly the 26s predicted by the 15% increased recharge rate. It is usually 21 to 22 seconds, provided you spend 5+ seconds in the tome. If you spend more, that time doesn’t go any lower. Similarly, for ToR and ToC I noticed something closer to 35s and 70s respectively.

Why? Not sure. Maybe something to do with a percentage of the CD time being subtracted if you spend a certain amount of time in a tome before exiting. Seems like a bug.

Anet, please note: Bug or not, cooldowns on the tomes corresponding to 21s, 35s and 70s are STILL far too long (especially ToC).

Zenith.7301:

CoR also happens to suffer from what half of revenant skills suffer. Any irregularity or slight bump in terrain will kitten the skill up.

When I’m doing Wurm in Draconis Mons, or any boss where a gap in terrain happens, revenant hammer is useless because CoR will only work on completely flat terrain, as will hammer 3, which are a huge chunk of hammer’s DPS.

More importantly, rev hammer also faces the ridiculous distance based penalty that ranger longbow and mesmer greatsword face, which guts the output of the skill in any setting where you can’t sit at max range to optimize its output (and lose the benefits of boon sharing in the process as most might stacking happens in the melee clump).

Guardian bow skills do the same damage regardless of distance or terrain.

As I said, guardian longbow skills need buffs, but not because rev hammer is this OP weapon. Rev hammer like most rev weapons and the class itself needs serious fixes as well.

Guardian does not get to be jealous of revenant, ever. Guardians are the backbone of WvW frontlines, dragonhunter is the most powerful power spec in PvE and outright meta (power rev isn’t, and their condi spec is middle tier), and DH in sPvP is doing fine.

Guardian as a class is in a really good spot.

Faulty/buggy skills do not ever justify withholding nerfs on the skills themselves or nerfing functional skills on other classes. As for the range bonus argument; DH do have it a bit easier than rev but they are still effectively locked at range:

• They do get 6% more damage at range (Grandmaster minor trait).
• Meditrapper DH (honestly, the only build that can viably run LB) often run Unscathed contender (+20% damage under aegis) which effectively only works when you’re at range (otherwise aegis gets stripped near instantly).

I also want to point out that when running a front-line guardian build, I’m not in the least bit envious of what revenant is capable of. When I see LB nerfs carried over into WvW though, it makes me wonder what possible rationale they have. Rev hammer is already >>>> to guardian longbow in zerg vs. zerg gameplay, so nerfing longbow (twice now) while leaving hammer alone heavily implies that they’re specifically nerfing DH roamers which is not fair.

I agree with you, they should only be fixing rev hammer skills, not nerfing them. LB really could stand to have a buff though.

If only it had a reasonable cast time…

Zenith.7301:

Look at the cast times. Hammer cast times are significantly longer, and they cost energy, which competes for the same resource they need to use their utilities (you don’t).

I think autoattack and LB2 do deserve buffs, but please don’t go pointing at revenant hammer as if they were in a remotely good state in the game.

CoR has the same cast time as trueshot. They are both extremely comparable skills since they both rest on weapons that serve a similar function: ranged, power-based aoe damage and control.

What you said is true; revenant hammer is extremely slow and next to completely unviable in a small-scale pvp setting/roaming. However, WvW is about zerg vs. zerg which is a a scenario in which hammer shines.

Anet CLEARLY doesn’t balance around roaming since they refuse to nerf the long-standing biggest offenders (highly mobile, stealth-based classes, usually Daredevil). Then, they go and nerf trueshot, twice, under the guise that it does too much burst damage. In sPvP? Sure, I’ll buy that explanation. In WvW? Hell no. Even in zerg vs. zerg, back when trueshot had a 4s cd and did 20% more damage, it didn’t sway fights. Zergs rolling with high protection uptime and projectile destroys/reflects make LB nearly useless which is exactly why you don’t see it anwyhere other than on roamers.

lolo.6105:

True shot got huge nerf from 4s on 6s and 20% damage nerf . What will be next . trap got huge nerf too. it was ok when HOT release

Traps did need nerfing and have been brought to a pretty good spot in terms of balance since HoT release. Longbow however has gone from a good weapon to a poor weapon, partially due to nerfs and partially due to buffs other classes received.

In particular, trueshot has received too much dev hate over the past year and a half. It seems it has been a surrogate for nerfs that should have been applied to Coalescence of Ruin (Revenant Hammer #2 skill). You know, the skill that can crit 7-9k (sometimes 14-16k when paired with a certain trait) on 3k+ armor opponents, is 1200 range, not a projectile, wide aoe that can viably hit 4-5 targets, doesn’t root the user AND has a 4s cooldown? Yeah, that skill hasn’t been touched at all (other than the “nerf” from 2s cooldown to 4s cooldown back near HoT launch).

Not to mention, the two nerfs trueshot has received (20% damage nerf back in April of 2016 and the 6s cd nerf in May of 2017) applied to WvW too, not only sPvP. This means the nerfs were INTENTIONALLY aimed at power DH roamers (specifically medi-trappers) since guardians/DH in zergs don’t use LB (not effectively, anyways).

Longbow does need a buff but I’m hoping they don’ nerf scepter as that’s been my go-to replacement for roaming ever since that garbage trueshot nerf.

Hexalot.8194:

LOL… to state the obvious, one man’s nerf is another man’s “excellent balance move”. :P

More like another 8 class’ excellent balance move!

To return to the topic of WvW, that backstab “nerf” was game-wide and affected more than just D/P. This was a case of thief as a whole being nerfed without the nerf being aimed at WvW players specifically. On the other hand, within the past 6 months, other classes have received sPvP nerfs (that carried over to WvW) that honestly had no effect whatsoever on zerg play and are therefore aimed specifically at roamers.

That’s what really irks many of us. Nerfs aimed at the minority of roamers will only further homogenize the roaming scene which is not healthy for it.

Hexalot.8194:

Arcaedus.7290:

A big problem I see with the roaming scene is that the biggest offenders (thief/daredevil) continue to receive only micro-buffs and avoid the nerf-bat every single patch.

This just isn’t true, and I don’t even play thief anymore. A couple of patches ago they nerfed back stab, making it that you can’t just spam back stab from stealth on a miss until you connect. There is now a one sec cool down on all stealth attacks on a miss. You might argue that this doesn’t change things all that much since (good) thieves learn to adjust their position to make their chances to land the stab count. But still, it was a substantial nerf to one of thief’s core skills.

That happened over a year ago. Although technically a nerf, it was an excellent balance move and should have been done a lot sooner. And yeah, it did absolutely nothing to curb thieves/DD from dominating the roaming scene.

A big problem I see with the roaming scene is that the biggest offenders (thief/daredevil) continue to receive only micro-buffs and avoid the nerf-bat every single patch.

A couple seasons ago in pvp, they removed many of the burst sigils, runes, and amulets. There were also sweeping nerfs across the board for most all classes.

Some of these nerfs carried over into wvw (and some have oddly been aimed at specifically roamers since they wouldn’t affect zergplay whatsoever) but for thief, none of those nerfs did. Choking gass still pulses daze. Impacting Disruption still does full damage, Channeled vigor still restores 1.5 bars of endurance, Signet of Agility still restores 100 endurance and vault still only costs 5 initiative. This is on top of the fact that buffs to pistol and sword have also carried over to WvW, giving thieves, who are already dominating the roaming scene, even more build variety.

I can’t give a comprehensive review of what does or doesn’t need nerfing but something in the trifecta of thief’s damage, sustainability and mobility has to go. To be conservative, I think just three nerfs would go a long ways for the roaming scene:

Bring the nerfs/changes from sPvP to WvW for Choking gas (shortbow #4), Channeled Vigor and Signet of Agility (aka, equalize them between these two game modes).

These nerfs wouldn’t kill thief roamers since they’d still have fantastic mobility but would go a long ways in helping other roamers fight back since thieves would have to be more careful with their dodges rather than spamming them back to back to effectively escape all situations.

otto.5684:

There is a major problem with FB, which is tomes. First, the tomes substitute your skill bar with the tome skill bar. In order for the tome to be stowed it must provide more damage or support than your weapon set and other tomes as well. This creates major competition over skill bar space, in which only the skill that does most damage or support will be utilized.

Good point. For 2 out 3 of the tomes I agree with you.

As of the demo weekend, ToJ most definitely provides far better burn application than anything guard has been capable of. Just an example of a simple burst you can put out:

Legendary Lore traited; enter ToJ (before battle). 5 —> precast 4 —> JI —> 1 —> exit tome (geomancy proc) —> torch 4 (if you have it) —> spam axe auto. This puts on 15-18 stacks of burning covered up by 3-5 bleed stacks.

The best build I found for roaming, small-scale fights and even held its own in 1v1s was similar to an spvp build that Saiyan posted about:

Valor (traited for medis)
Virtues (typical burn-guard traiting; take Permeating wrath over Indomitable Courage)
Firebrand 3, 3, 3 (Full traiting for tomes).

Heal: Mantra of Solace
Utilities: Judges Intervention, Smite condition, Mantra of Lore
Elite: Mantra of Liberation

Weapons: Axe/focus & Sword/shield.

Gear:

• Dire weapons and armor (this is what I’ll be using live due to ease of acquiring), Trailblazer trinkets.
• Sigils: Smoldering + Geomancy on axe/focus (since it procs when coming out of tomes) and Doom + Geomancy on sword/shield (for burst/cover condis after a ToJ burst).
• Runes: Balthazer, no question about it.

If I knew without a doubt that I’d be up against a build(s) that wasn’t heavy on condition damage, I changed out Mantra of Lore for Signet of Wrath or Signet of Judgement.

Focus of this build was full defensive utilities, dps on axe/focus and all the damage/burst coming from ToJ. Fully traited tomes means the burst was on a decent cooldown, and with 11 casts I could always get a minimum of 4-5 burning stacks off on a target even if they knew to sustain/cleanse/dodge while I was in ToJ.

Between the heal, elite, focus/shield, heal from medis and ToR + ToC, I generally had enough sustain to survive group-focus for a short while and did especially well vs condition-heavy builds.

Small-scale encounters and 1v1s relied on landing ToJ bursts which I had to be patient for. When I did land them, I could easily get off 14-21 stacks of burning, off of a practically instant JI combo which is far superior to anything that core burn guard or DH can pull off.

The only thing that gave this build a lot of trouble was a spellbreaker. Extremely high resistance up time on their part and no ability to strip boons on my part equated to a hard counter. CC comboes they had allowed them to land bursts on me consistently since all I had in the way of defence was blocks and 2 dodges (they have unblockables).

Kuya.6495:

I think f1 and f3 tomes are fine. They are very impactful and the big cds make sense because of this. Additionally, these tomes have ways to be refreshed beyond using renewed focus. you can get f1 back by using radiance and you can get f3 back by using valor. The only outlier is f2 tome that doesn’t feel strong enough to be worth the cd and resource limitation. The healing is too low and unlike f1 and f3 (killing an enemy and rezzing an ally), does not have an alternative to get refreshed. It might make sense to place a minor in the honor or virtues line that refreshes f2 on core guardian.

f1 is very impactful and I think it’s in a good spot. f2 is a dumpster full of garbage (if you’re full healing power, it’s only a slightly full trash can though) and f3 is great but doesn’t warrant anything more than a 40-50s cd considering its cast times and short durations of the effects.

Renewed Focus (elite), Renewed Justice (trait) and Courageous Return (trait) do not justify long cooldowns on the tomes. The traits are added perks and should not be a reason to ever increase cooldowns and skew balance (because there are plenty of builds that may not make use of some or even any of these traits). And renewed focus functions as a second-wind and an “oh shi-” button, not an intrinsic part of every build (which it pretty much is at the moment). The tomes should be stand-alone and functional by themselves with little traiting (just relevant ones in FB line) or utility skills to back them up and right now they definitely are not due to the combo of cast times and cooldowns.

leasm.1279:

Does anyone know for sure if the new Mantra of Solace can trigger “using a healing skill” effects on every cast?

For example, Protector’s Impact triggers from using a healing skill. Also, some runes trigger from healing skills.

Mantra of Solace’s cooldown is only 12 seconds if used smartly. So, will I be able to activate my trait/runes every 12 seconds? Or will these be triggered only when preparing the mantra (first cast)?

From what I remember, there was one trait (Healer’s retribution I think) that was bugged and only activated off the mantra channel or maybe not at all… I forget. Everything else I tried (Protector’s symbol, smiter’s boon, rune effects) seemed to work off both the channel and the charges.

lordbachus.6091:

Actually i would be delighted if cooldowns would be calculated trough this formula..

Cooldown = max coolldown * pages left/ max pages

Should be ‘pages used’ rather than ‘pages left’. The way you have it, it would benefit the most to use all but one page, then exit the tome for an enormous cd reduction.

Sigils would proc when exiting a tome to a weapon that had a swap sigil on, but I don’t know for sure in the case of swapping between tomes while on that weapon.

At MINIMUM, I expect the following changes to Firebrand to make it more viable in a pvp/wvw setting:

• Instant cast or 0.25s cast time to enter/switch tomes.
• Cooldowns on Tome of Resolve and Tome of Courage to be reduced to 30-35 and 40-50, respectively.
• Serious buffing to the final charges of mantras (as is, they’re not worth using with exception of the heal).
• Serious buffs for ToR (cast time reductions, added functionality and increased base-healing values).
• Change boons/effects granted by Legendary Lore (burning and aegis on f1/f3 make them too strong in certain scenarios).

Kuya.6495:

Tomes are fine. Cds, cast times and resource limitation allows counterplay.

Lol no.

The tomes do have counterplay. Having a cast time plus having cooldowns are counterplay, but there is a point at which those numbers are too high. If it was 1.25s to enter a tome, and 120s cd on f3, would that still be fine? Lets keep going up. 2s cast to enter a tome, 180s cd on f3. Still fine? Obviously not; and 0.75s & 90s cd are also still not fine.

Seasoned players know where to draw that line for balance purposes, and that line is at 0.25s (or instant cast) to enter a tome, and cd for f3 being around 30-50s (MAX).

This is an excellent post. You have a nice general outline, you cite evidence of intentions for the class from developer statements and even GW2 streams.

I hope the developers read this and decide to put their best feet forward at making a positive change for guardian. One thing I want to reiterate from OP is the fact that many aspects of guardian make it feel like its stuck in 2012 GW2 balance. In today’s balance, passive healing/regen from Virtue of Resolve and aegis from Virtue of Courage are not at all very powerful and merely a blip on the radar. They absolutely do NOT justify the guardian having low mobility, low healing support potential and being placed in the lowest health class.

dusanyu.4057:

Wow, people still complaining about loot stick. Get over it, switch to longbow

And get it unjustly nerfed a third time?

Pls no

Mikau.6920:

If the Seraph were CondiDamage+Healing main and Concentration+Expertise that would be the stat to go.

Hopefully they release a stat combination like that.

They really need a good condi/boon duration stat combo that doesn’t involve precision. In pvp/wvw that is a near useless stat for a burn guard (especially if they don’t take radiance).

I disapprove of this idea on the grounds that not all three tomes offer offensive options.

ToR is completely incapable of interacting with enemies (honestly this is in need of a fix).

ToC on the other hand has two skills. One directly affects enemies but it is melee-range only and is not a substitute for an auto attack (the hallmark of every single weapon in the game). The other is a casted bubble which reflects projectiles which is technically offensive but classifies more as defensive utility + it has a considerable cooldown.

So in other words, we would have a weapon set and ToJ, that’s it. Opponents wouldn’t really have much to adapt to once they learn how ToJ works.

Aegis should appear (as it currently is) and remain on character for a couple seconds but should then fade out of view.

The argument that the “aegis visual is important for balance” doesn’t hold up when there is no equivalent visual for stability, and people often have to play ‘I spy’ with the boon bar when deciding whether or not to CC an enemy warrior.

Alchimist.4738:

I made a post on the official Feedback thread, so I’ll post it here to keep the discussion going.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Alright, I’ll try to give a more a balanced view compared to my posts on other threads, which ask for heavy rework.

Firebrand

• There are a lot of discussions out there about mantras, so I’ll try to summarize the thoughts on them. Cones are fine for offensive mantras, as you need to immobilize or impair the movement of your opponents to use them correctly, in return those offensive mantras are quite powerful, and I like that. The issue comes when you’ve supportive mantras, and four out of six mantras are support oriented, because you cannot control the movement of your allies, and in modes such as PvP/WvW your allies will spread out and constantly move, which makes cones impractical, while in PvE you’ll also have situations where you allies are spread out, such as some raid bosses, therefore mantras are really underwhelming support capabilities. In consequence I think having AoE instead of cones would make more sense for such supportive mantras.

• Tomes shouldn’t have activation time, just like Celestial Avatar/Photon Forge/Shroud (…), because the Firebrand cannot react quickly enough to threats, harming its support potential, and it also makes the Firebrand too vulnerable to CCs.

• Tome of Resolve and Tome of Courage cooldowns should be reduce to make Firebrand exist as a support compared to the low cooldown of Celestial Avatar. Tome of Justice should keep its 30 seconds cooldown as it’s very powerful, and because Renewed Justice reset the cooldown on kills, Tome of Resolve should have a 20 seconds cooldown as it would be more in line with the other skill swapping support ability of the game, Celestial Avatar with its 10 seconds cooldown, Tome of Courage should have a 35 seconds (eventually a 40 seconds) cooldown as it’s otherwise too long to be relevant.

• Tome of Resolve feels a bit weak, even if it gets a cooldown reduction, you should consider reducing the second chapter (Radiant Recovery) casting time, one second cast time for a condition remover is too high particularly when considering most condition remover have a ½ or a ¾ cast time, Nefarious Favor doesn’t even have one and could be considered as powerful as Radiant Recovery. Another issue with the Tome of Resolve is the lack of blast finisher to synergies with Shining River, unlike the Celestial Avatar which has Lunar Impact to blast Rejuvenating Tides, as it stand right now you need your allies to blast for you, which isn’t great.

• Legendary Lore is responsible for some really powerful synergy, but I think they’re too powerful. As it’s right now the Tome of Justice throw too many burning stacks at its opponents, and one reason is because of the extra burning brought by Legendary Lore, I think the extra burning should be replace by slow or cripple, in order to keep the enemies in melee. Also aegis on every skills used by the Tome of Courage is bonkers, particularly with Pure of Heart, I’d rather see protection instead, and give aegis on tome skills such as Stalwart Stand, and the Unbroken Lines lasting longer (8 seconds) to compensate the lack of protection without the trait.

• Pages accompanied with long cooldowns of tomes are leading to some awkward behavior, because stowing your tomes means going into huge cooldown you want to keep them activated until all of your pages are left, even though you won’t need your tome immediately, but if you stow to go back to your weapon rotation then you won’t have your tome when you might need it, therefore you want to keep your tome activated waiting for the opportunity to use your last pages, which means you’ll do nothing while waiting as you don’t have access to your weapons skills and your utilities might not have a use while waiting, this is clunky. One solution would be to reduce cooldowns as suggested above, but even though page would remain a clunky mechanic.

• Another solution would be to have the tomes cooldowns taking into account the number of pages left, if you have a lot of pages left your cooldown is going to be very low (as low as the cooldown on an Elementalist attunement) but if you used all of your pages then the cooldown is going to be high, in return the skills need to have different page costs, otherwise player will spam the most powerful skill carelessly, and as the skill cost goes up the number of pages also need to increase, otherwise you won’t be able to make hard choices, such as using low page cost skills to having my tome back faster or using high page cost skills to be more impactful, it’s basically how Initiative works for the Thief weapon skills, and it’s how pages should work if you want them to be meaningful.

Pretty good points here. The subject of buffing tomes has been heavily discussed so I don’t think anything needs to be reiterated there. I would like to point out something about mantras though:

Advantages of Firebrand mantras:

• Shorter count recharges – okay, this is a pretty big advantage depending on the mantra.
• Baseline ammo of 3 – Not really a great advantage when mantra-based mesmer builds can easily be traited to give 3 ammo.

Disadvantages of Firebrand mantras:

• Very poor ability to affect allies – a 240 radius aoe is much better than a 300 radius cone.
• Longer cast time – 2.75s vs. 2.25s…. for no reason whatsoever.
• Do not gain bonuses upon fully charging the mantras – again, no incentive to use that final charge unlike with mesmer mantras.
• No ranged mantras, all of them are 300 radius cones.
• All the animations are essentially the same – Some small arc with slightly different glowy effects depending on the mantra.

Selendile.9106:

Crinn.7864:

Pretty sure group barriers are Scourge’s thing.

And weaver. Why not guard?

There’s a holosmith trait that grants barrier as well.

Cerby.1069:

Trying to remember the last time I saw a solo roaming dh…its like seeing a cooked turkey running around with the fork and knife alrdy on its head.

Sooooooo…..go Hammer rev? o.O

I mean, don’t do gunflame…that’s a dumb idea. Everyone else was sane enough not to even mention it. It’s just such a bad idea, sry for mentioning it.

Part of the reason is because of poor balance. Remember the May 16th balance patch notes? There was one particular nerf that did not affect zerg-play whatsoever and was aimed specifically at power-based DH roamers (which is unfair since no other specific roaming build received such nerfs).

“What’s that, revenants in WvW are still dealing 10k crits with a non-projectile, 1200-range, large aoe attack on a 4s cd? BETTER NERF TRUESHOT AGAIN.”

Sounds like OP got chewed out after interrupting a duel, felt bad and then decided to blame the duelist for the situation rather than just carrying on.

People dueling in wvw isn’t nearly as big of a problem as is made out by this post.

As of the demo weekend, power-based firebrand works about as well as core meditation guardian; i.e. DH is completely superior.

However if tomes see the buffs that we’ve suggested, it could end up being very effective. Team-based support on one end, and potential for some nice bursts on the other end: CCs on ToJ and ToC paired with exiting the tome + quickness + burst isn’t something that DH brings in melee-range.

I for one like the current system and don’t think it needs too much change to achieve a great balance. Here are some minor and numerical fixes that I think are much needed:

• Tome cooldowns should be 20, 30 and 40s respectively.
• Cast time to enter a tome should be instant cast or 0.25s.
• Many of tome skill casts should be 0.5s not 0.75s. In fact, some should be 0.25s.
• Buff base healing values for ToR moderately. Buff scaling considerably.
• Radiant Recovery (ToR skill 2) should be a 0.25s cast. Nobody cares for the cutesy little animation here if it means a 1s cast.
• Add functionality to one or moreToR skills (such as blind, daze, weaken, resistance, pulsing heals, superspeed).
• Add Aegis to some of the ToC skills (rework Legendary Lore to provide protection rather than aegis).
• Buff Unbroken Lines (ToC skill 5) to grant 6 seconds base duration of each of the related boons as well as the unique buff (still only 50% uptime, not OP).

Arricson Krei.9560:

Arcaedus.7290:

Okay, rant aside, here are some fixes for ToR that I think would be appreciated:

• Increase base healing values. This tome is no celestial avatar (and never will be due to its cooldown time) but its base-healing needs to at least do better than Dragonhunter’s Wings of Resolve. The scaling with healing power is great but overall healing on ToR is garbage even with 1400-1600 healing power due to bad base healing.
• Add some more utility to these tome skills. Consider adding blind, daze, cripple, resistance, super speed, immobilize and weaken to some of the ToR skills.
  -I think excellent spots to do this would be adding blind to #3, 2s super-speed to #5 (so you can rush to allies and heal them) and 2s resistance per condi cleared on #2.

No, increasing base anything is the absolute worst way to balance/rework values. It’s all about scaling. High base values is the reason why cele ele was stupidly overpowered some time ago, and high scaling is the reason why Viper’s is good for optimal dps for some specs. High scaling is also the reason why people get an actual return on investment into stats — which is what we should all want.

Increase the scaling on Tome of Resolve skills to give an incredible return for investing into Healing Power. Increasing the base values will only give dps guardians fantastic support for no investment into support stats.

The only instance where I’ll agree that base values merit increases is if condition/boon durations are too low. FB axe barely gives any condition damage because the base values for bleeding/burning duration are too low. The scaling for each condition’s damage shouldn’t be increased because condi damage should be about consistent damage over time. Increasing condition duration scaling is a different story.

Even with full/high healing power investment (1400-1600), you don’t get that great of returns with ToR and burst healing doesn’t come even close to Celestial Avatar.

Healing aside, lets say you’re focused more on support/utility/burns. There is no incentive at all to go into ToR because it provides no boons, utility or damage. Nothing in ToR interacts with the enemy. There are no blinds, soft cc or daze (things ToR could have). It is horrible at cleansing condis (cleanse 2 condis on a 1s cast to people in close melee range…. plus this is on 3s cooldown).

Altogether, it makes for an underwhelming and underperforming class function. There are appropriate ways to buff ToR. I think you could agree that if the perfect value is reached, there could be a base-healing value for ToR skills (as a whole) that makes non-healing power builds feel that it’s a worthwhile tome while making healing-power focused builds viable.

The biggest downside is its inability to escape focus. All it takes is a bit of CC and movement impairing conditions and you’re done.

I think Saiyan has the right idea here; devoting utilities to mobility/condi clear/stunbreak and stability while leaving the main dps/burst on f1.

I’d argue the master-level trait Stalwart Speed is a better choice if you’re taking both the mantra heal and mantra elite though.

momophily.3814:

Good OP…

I agree with everything you said until the second last portions:
“Add some more utility to these tome skills. Consider adding blind, daze, cripple, resistance, super speed, immobilize and weaken to some of the ToR skills”

they may need more utility, but not so spread out. The effect from every random boon added will take away from the target effect of the skill. the Devs believe in trade off (On Guardian more than most classes). So every point of super speed will result in that much less healing…. All i want this tome to do is Heal, Regen, and Swiftness… THATs IT.

For FireBrand to have a healing tome that competes with the Druid, it needs to be focused or it will cut the base healing out put. Every other need should be added through the corresponding utility choices already available in the core Guard and Mantras… Mantras *sigh

Beyond that, excellent points.

I don’t mean that they should include ALL of that utility on ToR but perhaps one, or some of those suggestions.

The big problem with ToR is that it essentially turns you into a humongous target. It’s as if you’re screaming “Hey, look at me, all I’m doing is pumping out some party healing. I can literally do nothing to stop you from attacking/CCing me right now.”

That’s a problem. Both of the other tomes can do something useful aside from their main functions.

f1: Mainly used for applying burning but can also CC and give a unique buff to allies.
f3: Mainly used for stability and providing boons to allies but can also taunt the opponent and reflect projectiles
f2: Mainly used for healing but can also…. kinda… not really… cleanse condis? And that’s it…..

If you recall the old defensive tome back in the day, it was focused on healing but was also capable of dazing and blinding foes. That functionality should return to our ToR imo. I don’t see why it would come with any cost to our healing, especially if it was placed on #3, since that skill does no healing to begin with.

I think I’ve played it for long enough now to give some succinct and well-thought out feedback that I hope people find insightful. I’ll start by going over some general impressions, then move on to the weapon, utility skills, traits and finally, the tomes.

In general: Firebrand is conceptually EXCELLENT and fills a role that guardians have long yearned to adequately provide. I love the idea of having more cast-focused support and it really comes together when taking certain traits. Tomes (cast times/CDs) and mantras could use some work.

FX and animations: I love, love, LOVE the animations. These were quite possibly my favorite part of the elite specialization. They did a great job of not being all the same which really helped me connect an animation to a skill, thus learn very quickly.

One criticism I have though is one you’ve all been hearing: Tome animations should involve a floating book (perhaps smaller than our old elite tomes) being held in front of us, rather than some glowy transparent pages.

Axe: I tested this on both power and condition builds. Solid weapon.

-The Good: Cast time on symbol is appropriate. Excellent condition application. I think the weapon is very balanced for condition builds.

-The Bad: The symbol is extraordinarily weak on power-based builds. Consider buffing the base-damage of the symbol (to match that of sword’s symbol).

Mantras: Good conceptually but I think they need some numerical tweaking to be fully viable.

-The Good: They are very interesting to say the least. Enjoyed the elite and heal mantra. The count-recharge mechanic = awesome! Having the option to either spread out uses or close out a fight with a final charge gives nice versatility that I think we’ll appreciate in time.

-The Bad: All 4 utility mantras are underwhelming. The final charges barely do more than the regular charges. I think they should all receive buffs to the final charges considering the cooldowns you must suffer afterwards. They should have more lasting impact.

Regarding the cone hit-boxes of mantras: If guardian mantras are going to be mechanically inferior to Mesmer mantras (cones suck), the effects better AT LEAST be objectively superior and they are not.

Consider buffing the cone’s arc angle/forward range and heavily buff the effects the mantras give.

The Traits: Really liked the traits for the most part. Minor tweaking necessary.

-The Good: The quickness on stability/aegis trait is by far the best trait in this entire line. Otherwise liked the build diversity the traits enabled.

-The Bad: Some of the traits are so heavily overshadowed that I doubt they’ll ever see use. Some could use work. Ex:

• Weighty Terms: In most cases we’re discouraged from using the final charge of a mantra (due to them not being significantly more effective than the first two charges + long CD afterwards).
• Stoic Demeanor: Really a poor trait by itself. It is also completely overshadowed by the other two. Even power-based builds would be more suited to take the bottom grandmaster trait over this.
• Imbued Haste (Minor, Grandmaster): Guardians often lack total health, not armor. Consider swapping the +250 toughness to +250 vitality.

The Tomes: First I want to emphasize that no matter what build you are running/role you are trying to fill, If you play Firebrand, your build WILL rely on tomes to be effective. With that being said, the tomes should at least be compelling to use and for the most part are not.

-The Good: Tome of Justice. This thing wins first, second and third prize. As for the other two tomes? Honestly the best part about the other two tomes is that minor trait that grants quickness when entering/exiting a tome.

The Bad: Cast times and cooldowns. They are abhorrent and WAY too high. They are the reason that Firebrand can NOT peel from a fight and can’t sustain very well. They’re just not fun at all…

Some suggested fixes:

• Instant-cast or 0.25s cast times to enter tomes: 0.75s is way too long, even with quickness.
• Make some skills instant cast. I think making the #5 skill on f2, the #4 skill on f3 tome, and the #2 skill on f1 tome instant cast would all be good choices.
• Lower general cast times: 0.75s (maybe 1s) is the highest any of the cast times should reach to. And for the most part, the cast times should be 0.25 to 0.5s, not 0.75s.
• Lower tome cooldowns to 20, 30, 40s respectively.

Tome of Resolve: This one gets its own section. I’m sorry but this is by far and large the most GARBAGE tome of the three.

• Its healing is abysmal.
• It’s poor at clearing conditions.
• Its one ground-targeted skill is not impactful at all and doesn’t heal.

I found myself using this tome to apply swiftness to myself and allies as I ran across the borderlands in WvW. I would also occasionally pop in and out for a water-field while in zerg play, but THAT’S IT.

Okay, rant aside, here are some fixes for ToR that I think would be appreciated:

• Increase base healing values. This tome is no celestial avatar (and never will be due to its cooldown time) but its base-healing needs to at least do better than Dragonhunter’s Wings of Resolve. The scaling with healing power is great but overall healing on ToR is garbage even with 1400-1600 healing power due to bad base healing.
• Add some more utility to these tome skills. Consider adding blind, daze, cripple, resistance, super speed, immobilize and weaken to some of the ToR skills.
  -I think excellent spots to do this would be adding blind to #3, 2s super-speed to #5 (so you can rush to allies and heal them) and 2s resistance per condi cleared on #2.

Tl;dr: Elite spec is fun and can be effective but there needs to be some serious buffing of the mantras and tomes. Mantras needs stronger effects/increased range, and tomes need lower cast times as well as cooldowns.

Even with quickness, tome cast times are pretty terrible. Just an example earlier from wvw:

I see a deadeye stealth and team mate gets marked. I use elite mantra (since im traited, I gain quickness) —> f3 —> attempt to use skill 3 (bubble).

Deadeyes DJ (rifle 4) landed (from 1200 to 1500 range) before my bubble was even up. Keep in mind this was with quickness on the entire time.

The tome skills just are not usable reflexively and it really kills the elite spec in pvp and wvw. I hope they do one or more of the following:

• Remove cast time to enter a tome: seriously…. everything inside the tome already has a cast time…

• Lower CDs of tomes – even with virtues line and relevant tome traits in FB traited, I have to wait too long in between tome uses. It really discourages me from using the tomes as much as I would like to.

• Add some instant and 1/4s cast skills: not every skill needs to be 0.75 to 1.25s casts. It wouldnt be overpowered if say, the #3 or #4 skill of each tome was instant cast.

I’m really hoping Deadeye isn’t going to be as deadly in 1v1 or small-scale scenarios as many of us are expecting. Because if they are, there is only one thing that will be able to keep them in check and that’s a Daredevil. It’s NEVER good for balance when the only way to fight fire is with fire.

I think it’s a bit too early to judge axe as a whole but in my opinion, they really should have put quickness as the boon associated with axe.

Lets look at the facts:

-Every main-hand weapon has one unique boon associated with it’s symbol.
-No repeats
-4 possible boons left for current and future mainhand weapons
-It is unlikely we will see 4+ more expacs without the creation of new boons (may as well start putting 1 boon per weapon introduced to guard from here on out).
-Thematically, axe shouldn’t be given a defensive boon.
-Only 1 out of the 4 boons left is non-defensive – quickness.

Taken together, this argues we should be given quickness. Symbol duration/cooldown/boon duration/pulsing are usually what is balanced, not whether or not the symbol gets a boon.

Another point I’d like to stress: In relation to pvp and wvw, I think Anet balance team has a bad habit of looking at skill balance in a vacuum. They may think “oh no, a 180 radius field for 5s that pulses quickness. And if players throw in a couple traits, the symbol lasts a bit longer and is a bit bigger. Oh nooooo, so overpower, much strengths, such boon.” and yes, it would be powerful…. but not on a somewhat slow, melee-ranged weapon associated with a support-based class. Compared to what other classes are getting, I don’t think tossing us this bone is going to break any camels’ backs.

Slaptjip.4895:

Bloodclot.4896:

I didn’t even realise people still played with the staff, Learn something new everyday. Handy for tagging in WvW eh, I’ll dust it off and get it ready, oh wait, it WAS good for tagging in WvW, back it goes into the loft.

You either absolutely clueless or trolling very hard.

The staff provided great group support.

1) There is the symbol of swiftness. Not only does it offer swiftness, it could assist with marking walls (damage support + fire damage when used with virtue of justice). One can never have enough wall pressure whilst the siege does its job. It also offers cleansing within the area. Perfect to cast on friendly siege.

2) There is the empower that gives might. A key thing in WvW for as long as we can remember. Not only does it empower, it offers reasonable healing when activated. Rank 3000 and I have seen how Empower in a middle of a zerg fight saved fellow players low on HP.

3) Line of Warding. Another extremely viable support skill both offensive and defensive. I cannot recall how many times I saved a friendly player running towards a tower/keep portal away from someone where my line of warding gave them the last needed seconds.

For all that, the guard got skill 1 in return to get his/her fair loot bags whilst those 3 skills above was recharging.

Anet did not take away the Guardians loot bag skill, they simply took away group support. So, next time a squishy runs low on health next to me, no cleansing/no healing/no might and no line of warding for the defense. Instead I am forced to use a weapon that does damage but not nowhere near enough group support.

“The staff provided great group support.” lol

1) Symbol of swiftness is a mediocre skill. 15s Cooldown is a bit too high for a small bit of aoe damage and 4s of swiftness.

2) There are other ways to grant might just as quickly while remaining mostly mobile. The only reason empower is such a key component is due to Altruistic Healing.

3) Line of Warding is an extremely pitiful CC. 1 second cast time, 30 second cooldown for a line that people can simply walk around. In the game mode which it matters most, it’s a very low impact CC. By the time you’re in range to use it on an enemy zerg, they already have stab up.

Staff is intended to be a support weapon but didn’t do a very good job of that. It needed buffs to other skills and perhaps a rework to truely make it a modern and impactful support weapon. Instead it got unjustly nerfed with no fix in sight.

phokus.8934:

If Sword of Justice worked exactly like Mesmer’s Mantra of Pain (I think 1 second cooldown between uses) then it’d be worth a look.

As of now, ToF still is much better as it also applies a cripple effect and can get more burst out of it with push and pulls.

This too. They placed the count recharge at 25s and the cooldown in between casts at 8s. So you really don’t have the option to use all 3 charges as a “burst,” it’s ONLY used as DPS. If you try to use the sword to burst (on cooldown), you will be using it once per 8 seconds. By the time you use the third charge, the first charge will have already been regained…

The cool down between casts should be around 2-5 seconds.

Lets look at some of the arguments made by players here in defence of the staff changes since Anet refuses to provide reasoning or justification for their changes:

“The real reason everyone is complaining is because they can no longer use staff as a loot stick in WvW”

• Yeah…. so? What does their reasoning matter? A nerf is a nerf. Yes, this nerf essentially “cuts the revenue” of zerging guardians running staff but far more importantly it hurts the staff’s viability as a weapon in combat and I think that’s a far stronger argument to reinstate the 600 range (or buff it, heavily, otherwise).

• Anecdotally: I couldn’t care less for my revenue as a guardian in wvw. I’m first and foremost, a roamer, and when I equip staff and join a zerg, I do so with the intention to support, and avoid being in melee range (since I like to run a bit squishier). A staff that can only do damage at 300 range pretty much ensures that all my damage is going to come from melee weapons, ALL of which are more viable than staff which essentially knocks out one weapon from my pallette.

“Staff 1 was nerfed but all other skills were buffed.”

Uh yeah, lets look at just how much:
– Orb of Light: Reduced the extended recharge time of this skill when detonating the orb of light from 400% to 300%. Detonating the orb of light now grants light aura to allies, in addition to its previous effects. This skill has been unsplit from PvP and will use the 20% higher heal scaling in all game types.
– Empower: This skill now grants healing per pulse in addition to might. It will now heal for 17% of the previous healing value for 3 ticks and then 50% at the skill’s end.
– Line of Warding: This skill has been unsplit from PvP and how has a 30-second recharge in all game modes.

• Ok, so staff 2 got a decent buff. Still garbage for damage, still very slow and difficult to land on a moving opponent. In terms of support, this provides very little, so the other skills would have to pick up the slack (which they don’t) to justify staff as a support weapon.
• Staff 3 had absolutely nothing done with it. It’s an okay skill, not outstanding and could use some love.
• Pretty much nothing changed with staff 4. I guess it got a 1% buff to total healing lol? What staff 4 needed was to be a mobile skill.
• Staff 5 is still an extremely weak CC with too long of a cast time and almost no impact on the intended game modes.

Staff received more impactful nerfs than buffs. The ONLY game mode it ever recently saw play in was wvw and the point of it was to be able to provide support as well as strike 5 foes with every auto attack before arriving in melee range and swapping to a stronger weapon. Now, the offensive aspect of staff has been made next to useless.

Ubi.4136:

Eles can use their glider while downed…

Can confirm; earlier I thought an ele somehow rezzed and had used Ride the Lightning (Air/Dagger 4) but it was in fact the effects of his glider as he fell straight down out of glider mode as soon as mist form ended.

Tried it. The cast is very obvious/slow. You may be able to make it work in a group, but solo it won’t work very well since you won’t have any large bursts to follow up with (unless you sacrifice some sustain on the utility bar).

I tried it out. In spvp it may be a good contender. You can match the damage from ToF (from a single crossing of the barrier) with about 2 hits from the sword. It can provide some on point pressure and be great for cleaving downs as well. Since it’s ranged it also works a bit better with sets involving longbow.

In Wvw though, ToF’s damage is simply superior (It takes 3 crits in a row from sword to barely match the damage of a single ToF crit), plus it gives you protection.

Mikau.6920:

Other thing that really concerns me is the cast time on axe #2 – the same cast time as mace #2 – which is one of the reasons that I hate mace. This cast time might be too much to the skill be viable against players. Lets wait and see.

Axe #2 seems to be much more loaded then mace 2 though. I think it has/will have higher damage than other symbols (which it should since there is no associated boon), applies bleed, can be traited to aoe daze for a second and it has innate cripple which will be good for chasing and continuing to land auto attack.

RabbitUp.8294:

Tomes have huge cooldowns (30, 45, 90 respectively) so they can never be anything similar to Celestial Avatar.

They are comparable to Celestial Avatar as they can be seen as the support based analog of Celestial Avatar. And, since healing > support in terms of impact on any given game mode, I think tomes stand to have their cooldowns reduced to something closer to 20, 35 and 45s respectively.

Dunno bout you guys but I’m quite tired of feeling pidgeonholed into RF. A 75s cd (only if traited for) on a tome means that without RF, you arent going to be using it more than once in any given fight or skirmish in pvp settings.

Assic.2746:

I have mixed feelings on the Mantra of Liberation. Looks like a “Stand Your Ground!”. But with 2 charges, twice higher CD and you have to channel it again out of combat. A bit too weak for the elite. The only upside for me is the ability to cast it again real quick if your stability was stripped.

PS.
Radius
Mantra of Liberation: 300 < “Stand Your Ground!”: 600

Don’t forget the mantra is also a group stun break, something that SYG is not. It also doesn’t compete with SYG, so you could run both which may definitely be a necessity considering all the boon-strip/corruption we will be seeing.

On a related note: I hope they heavily reduce the CDs on the tomes so it feels like tome-uptime is decent without necessitating RF. I don’t want to be pidgeon-holed into that boring elite once more because this new elite honestly seems a lot more interesting/tactical.

RabbitUp.8294:

Tome cooldowns are my gripe, too.
F1 is 30 sec
F2 is 45 sec
F3 is 90 sec

The only thnig I saw so far that justifies the cooldown is F3 being able to cast 5 mesmer Feedbacks in a row, but you can’t use any other weapon or tome skills.

They require hitting the enemy to build up charges (pages), the skills within the tomes have cooldowns essentially guaranteeing you only use them once (maybe twice if traited) per tome, every single skill has a cast time AND the tomes themselves have ridiculously long cooldowns afterwards.

Even with virtues traited, we’re looking at cooldowns close to 26s, 38s, and 75s. These are far too long. Tomes could be considered the “support” version of druid’s Celestial Avatar and seeing as healing > support, I see no justification for support to be on a cooldown that is about 3-5x higher than CA.