Guild Wars 2

Hey Lynnie, thanks for posting this video, and I’m glad you enjoyed traps so much! Your video was inspiring as it shows how effective traps can be now, and they aren’t even at their full potential yet!

Just some thoughts on both your video, and traps in general as they stand now:

It looks like you made pretty good use of a trapper playstyle, laying down your traps and not chasing people, but rather letting them come to you only to get destroyed! I think longbow actually fits perfectly well with traps in that it gives you a way to pressure foes so you don’t have to chase them.

One downside though is in a ranked match, all it would take is a bit of pressure from a thief or a mesmer to get you to pop your heal, and then a coordinated burst from two or three people and you’d be downed very easily.

I think that a trapper guardian is going to shine much more in WvW roaming than in spvp. A full-trapper guardian with runes of the trapper will make for a very annoying and quite deadly foe that has the ability to disengage, and kite. In spvp a trapper DH will be a sitting duck for mesmers, rangers and anything with heavy condi application.

Amaya.1483:

This is so far the best Dragonhunter thing i have seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTBsV-A0eLk

This is actually pretty interesting. If you do the math, this is a stealth and super speed approximately once per 6 seconds which is about 50% super-speed and stealth up time. Just imagine the potential of this build with the upcoming trap-changes! Rune effects + might, protection, lots of blocks, and stun-break are going to make this build really realllllly frustrating to fight.

Fay.2357:

So the combo you’re seeing is greatsword 2 (mirror blade), dodge, mind wrack, greatsword 3 (mind stab).

This does a lot of damage, particularly if you don’t have regardless of your toughness. The way to avoid this is to dodge immediately upon either seeing the animation of mirror blade, or as soon as you realize you’re taking damage. As you said, it’s an impossible fight against unsuspecting prey. Don’t be unsuspecting prey. When you know there’s a burst zerker mesmer on the other team, always be aware of where they are and be ready to avoid their burst.

Fixed that for ya! You would think 3.4k armor would be enough to not be getting hit for 4k/shatter on mind wrack, but it’s not :/ You can’t face-tank a well-set up mind wrack, period.

There is good advice here though; you really have to dodge, block, or invlun to survive those out-of-stealth bursts from a power mesmers. Be aware of that mesmer’s location, and get ready to hop on them as soon as they’re out of stealth/not invulnerable.

Some advice from personal experience: If you move away from where the mesmer is, they’re not going to be able to do a point-blank mirror blade throw, and will likely chase you. If the mesmer is stealthed and nearing the end of their stealth duration, s/he will likely just throw the mirror blade from wherever s/he currently is, keep chasing you, or blink to you to get the burst in. In all three cases you have made the situation slightly more advantageous for yourself. Aside from dodging, move around, constantly keep attacking (negates a +15% damage modifier they could have), and move away from stealthed mesmers to avoid that burst!

Going to have to agree with the vets on this one: Mesmer isn’t op. In the hands of a mesmer main/very experienced roamer/spvp player, mesmer seems op as hell. I’ve had my run ins lol. The thing is, good mesmers are very good at chaining together invulns, blinds, evades, CCs, and (excessively long) stealths such that they seem unkillable, all while dealing good damage. If you don’t know mesmer well, you can’t upset that mojo too successfully. Imo, certain traits still need some looking at, especially PU. (it got nerfed…. and is still op)

Other than certain PU-based builds, I wouldn’t say mesmer is OP, they are just on the extreme end of being very bursty which isn’t a bad thing! Make a mesmer, get good with it, and take it for a test run in pvp. You’ll soon learn how other players can deal with mesmers.

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Really nice changes but the current virtue mechanics are really bad. Especially f3, having that interupted puts it on a full 75s CD without getting any of the virtue benefits, and the same with f2, it gets put on full CD without the heal/regen. Maybe make f3 instant cast and f2 an evade while leaping that would help with the DH sustain alot.

Can we have this addressed too before launch? This is a serious issue and is something that put quite the frowny face on me during BWE3. 2/3 of our entire class mechanic should not go down the drain just because we were unlucky enough to get randomly interrupted.

Naru’s fixes here for our f2 are great. For our f3 I might add: Let the stun break, and stability (traited) on our f3 come instantly. The stability should last 0.25 seconds longer to account for cast time. Then, we spend 0.25 seconds casting before the shield actually appears.

These changes to our f2 and f3 would still maintain the whole “virtues need to be casted” theme while making them balanced. Honestly, these virtues don’t deserve to be interruptible, or else they should go on a 3-4 second cooldown (which they don’t). So please make it so that either they have a 3-4s interruptible cooldown, or are not interruptible. Take your pick ANET

merchantchuck.4875:

I use travelers because I like to roam in wvw. when i finally decided to use it I became so happy. The speed was just soo good. People couldnt disengage me as easily as they use to before.

Pack Runes are also a nice option for a power build-solo roamer. Good swiftness and fury uptime + precision are a nice up to your damage too. And If you combine pack runes with a shouts build and “Retreat!” (I know, not super ideal) you and allies have perma-swiftness while in combat just from your own procs.

As unpopular as this opinion may be I don’t want a 25% movement speed buff. The point of this game isn’t to standardize every single class and make classes just feel like different flavors of each other. I like every class because there are quirks and “flaws” about them that make them feel unique and balanced. The lack of sustained mobility/swiftness/movement speed on guardian is one of those quirks.

The thing is, we’re such formidable foes even without a 25% movement speed buff. There’s a lot we can do that other classes can’t. I honestly have come across very few situations in which I felt I needed a 25% movement speed increase. Cool-down and skill management combined with very decent condi clear (clearing off immobs and chills) can keep you right where you need to be most of the time.

As for travelling across a map, you have to work at it which is somewhat annoying, but you can easily keep up with other +25% movement speed classes by rotating through your mobility skills/utilities.

Thank you for the update Karl!

I have a few questions though about Hunter’s Verdict:

-This first one is more a request than a question: Any chance we could get a more expanded description or tool-tip on hunter’s verdict? We theory-crafters are like dogs ready to go on a hunt, and telling us of this skill is like waving a nice juicy bone in front of our faces haha.

-Will the cooldown of it be affected by the reduction in virtue recharge rate from our virtues traitline?

-Will Renewed focus also renew Hunter’s Verdict?

I wish we could revert it back or get a fix for this. JI used to combo really well with those two, as well as Dragon Hunter’s Wings of Resolve. It really took a sizeable chunk of combo power out of DH

Hello! I’m relatively new to thief, so I can’t really criticize DD as a facet of thief as a whole, or go in to depth about the traits but here is some feedback based on my experiences with DD:

In general: I love the feel of this specialization! My one small issue is I have done a decent amount of traditional thief playing before and honestly this specialization feels a lot like regular thief due to the fact that steal hasn’t been changed at all, and certain utilities (Shadowstep, Withdraw) are still practically mandatory. The spec plays wonderfully though.

Dodges:
-Unhindered Combatant: I really like this dodge! This trait really sells the DD as a class/spec that can stay in the heat of battle without retreating. It affords amazing mobility, sustain, and essentially tanking if you build your thief that way.
-Bounding Dodger: I know it has been said that its current iteration is not the final one. Having the leap finisher occur at the start of the leap is mandatory though, otherwise very few will take this over Unhindered Combatant. I liked this GM trait in BWE2, didn’t even use it in this BWE3.
-Lotus Training: The animation for this BWE looks a bit silly (on a charr it does anyways) in my opinion! Amazing trait option for condi builds though.

Physical Utility Skills:
Love em! These skills are very fun to use, and you can pull off some interesting things with them!
-Channeled vigor: Would be better with a decreased cast time. If it is to have a 2s channel, I expect it to have a team-wide effect! A 1.25s cast time would be perfect for this skill to keep it as powerful, but having counterplay.

-Bandit’s Defence: Very good call on increasing the cd, this skill was quite op! It’s still a great choice and offers a very convenient stun break, projectile blocker, or offensive tool. I like this dynamic.

-Impairing daggers: oddly I found more use for this skill in power-builds than in condi builds. Great skill, very versatile and is great for either engaging the opponent, or chasing down a fleeing opponent.

-Distracting Daggers: I appreciated the increased window to throw the daggers! I think a nice stylistic touch to this skill would be to change it to “Distracting Bolts” and have it equip a small cross-bow on our forearms. It would otherwise function identically to Distracting Daggers, but would feel more visually distinguishable/different from impairing daggers. I understand this would require different artwork, animation, and sound FX though, but just thought I might throw this out there for fun

-Fist Flurry: I like that this skill can be used while moving. Frequently couldn’t get off the full combo though. Perhaps make it so that striking someone with at least one strike of it will allow the final palm strike, and then nerf the damage of palm strike slightly to compensate?

-Street Fighter combo (Impact Strike): Great skill! I REALLY like the fact that if the 3rd strike deals a killing blow to an opponent, it double-downs them! This adds a lot of depth, visual flair, and satisfaction to an already great skill.

Basi venom + staff 2 steal (mug and daze) impairing daggers+ staff 5 is a really mean opener! :O

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

IDk if I would give the same effect to all traps.

They definitely need to look at each trap however & decide weather to give it one (or more) of the following at base

1: Condi removal
2: AOE healing
3: Condi application
4: Boon application

As for what to give what

Purification: Take the total heal, cut it in half and have that half applied to the guard when they lay the trap.
Then make the trap triggered by allies who are under full health & wonder over it.
Then make it pulse healing in a 360 radius with each pulse removing a condition. (say 3-4 pulses with each pulse doing about 1/3 – 1/4 of the remaining half of the heal.)

Procession of Blades: Make each hit apply a 5 second bleed & 2 second cripple at base. in addition to what it does already

Test of Faith: Make it pulse protection to allies inside the ring & damage to enemies inside the ring. (say 1s protection per second & 1/8th the damage leaving the ring would do) in addition to what it does already

Lights Judgment: Make it pulse 5 seconds of bleeding to enemies & 1 stack of might to allies in addition to what it does already.

Dragons Maw: Really just needs a bigger radius and it would be perfect.

Fragments of Faith: Fine as is.

I like your idea of traps giving condi removal, and aoe healing as that’s very in line with guardian. Boon application should be fairly limited in my opinion. Perhaps might and protection could work, but not much else really. Condi applications are good!

Imo:

-Purification: Let it cure 3 condis upon laying it down.

-Procession of Blades: I agree with your notion here.

-Test of Faith: I also like your suggestion here. Adding in vulnerability to foes who cross the ring would be a nice touch too.

-Light’s Judgement: This is really the the skill I was thinking protection and/or pulsing healing to allies could be placed on.

-Dragon’s Maw: Reduce the cd to around a 45 second base, let the initial clamp be larger/affect multiple people. This skill is strong, but really only seems to affect one person. Most people who have any sort of stability aren’t really phased.

Hunter.4783:

There is this disturbing trend i have been noticing as of late

Only new/bad players seem to like the dragonhunter wheres any moderately skilled or above player hates it with a passive.

I wonder if dragonhunter is supposed to be the entry level PVE endgame class for HoT…

As someone who mains guard and has played in all 3 main game modes, I very much like DH for WvW roaming (and pvp, but not soloQ). If used properly, the virtues are absolutely amazing (f3 is op….), and longbow is a very strong ranged option. Traps…. not so much lol.

Well the DH certainly offers a comparable if not superior WvW medi-roamer and duelist from my experiences. Won some pretty difficult duels/matchups, and even some out-numbered fights with DH.

As for thematics I think i’m going to agree with Adam on this 1. The whole monster-hunter theme better fits warrior, mayyyyyybe engineer (something largely WITHOUT magic).

Traps are pretty awful, not gonna lie. Fragments of faith is decent, but we can’t justify an entire utility category because of one skill.

Dear ANET game devs,

I’m quite happy with DH! It’s performance in pve, pvp and wvw is an interesting new flavor, is very visually appealing (sound FX, and visual FX are spot on, very happy!!) and it has really developed into a fun, playable spec (aside from maybe the traps) thanks to your willingness to listen to our feed-back. Thank you!

That being said, here is a very long and fairly comprehensive feedback on DH in its current state. I go over nearly every facet of DH from a pvp and wvw point of view (I didn’t test it out in pve that much).

Virtues: Very happy with them! Cooldown reductions to f1 and f2 have put them in a great place! F1’s velocity and damage boost are great. Here are a couple issues I have though:
-Cast time: Both f2 and f3 can be interrupted causing you to receive no boons, no activated skill, and full cd. This seriously ruins your day and feels unfair ?
Here are some suggested fixes:
Evade on f2, instant-receive boons on f3 if traited (still can’t use f3 while casting something though). Maybe nerf the healing of f2 slightly to compensate. Also the 75s base cd of f3 seems a bit too long.

Longbow: #2 hits like a TRUCK now though, so we might need to consider toning down the damage. It should hit about 1.3 to 1.5x harder than mighty blow, but not 2x! Despite every1 complaining about the rooting on #2, I like this mechanic, and urge you to keep it as the damage more than makes up for it.
My only complaint has to deal with the trait.

Traps: Still not up to par with other skill-types in my opinion. I’m seeing a bit more play of Fragments of Faith (FF) which is nice, but not so much the other traps. What other people have said applies here: Let Purity cleanse 2-3 condis, and let one of the traps break stun. We need more sustain on the traps. I like the trait-placement for the traps, and like the dazes! ?

Traits: Lot to say here, I’ll try to keep it short.

-At the adept level, soaring devestation still takes the cake…. And the icing….and the whole cake store. Don’t nerf it (maybe nerf to 2.5s immob); buff the other adepts! For example: the third adept could additionally apply weakness (3s, 8s icd) when striking foe with 2+ stacks vuln and trap trait could be 1.5s daze + adds a burning blast when triggering a trap.

-REALLY like Hunter’s Determination (drop FF trap when cced), and Hunter’s Fortification (condi cleanse on block).

-Minor Traits: Not a big fan of our two minor traits.
Defender’s Dogma doesn’t feel very impactful at all. Even if you build around a blocking DH build, this minor goes unnoticed. Not to mention it encourages us to not use our f1.
Pure of Sight is okay, and really makes Trueshot hit hard now but is otherwise a very poor trait in my opinion.

Some suggested fixes:
Defender’s Dogma: Could change it so that blocking an attack reduces the recharge of virtues by a static amount (1s internal cd). This would really encourage us to use our f3!
Pure of Sight: Honestly I’d say redesign this minor. It almost exclusively affects longbow, and we shouldn’t be funneled into using longbow just because we play DH.

Last but not Least: Heavy Light. I really like this trait, and it makes using the longbow for roaming/spvp/skirmish situations REALLY powerful. Two minor complaints though:

-I dislike the current iteration. The previous iteration worked better in my opinion (stability on true-shot). A better way for this trait to work would be for us to gain stability on lb rooting attacks (2 and 5). This thematically and logically makes sense (assume a balanced footing so you can aim a powerful arrow).
-Second complaint: The icd. I’d suggest 8s. 7 was too little, but 10 feels like too much.

I am unhappy about the fact that shield of courage (our f3) can be interrupted which negates all the boons, and the shield itself. Having a cast time is fine, but having this skill be interruptable really ruins the experience. My suggestion on how to fix this involves a change to both core guardian and DH mechanics:

-Virtue of Courage (base guardian): Buff the aegis and retaliation/protection/stability uptime (when traited to virtues) up by 1/4 a second to make up for the cast time of Shield of Courage.
-Shield of Courage (DH): boons and the stunbreak (from Indomitable courage) activate immediately upon pressing F3, the shield does not manifest until the 1/4 second cast time is complete.

On this note, we may want to get wings of resolve looked at too as it essentially suffers from the same issue.

I would like some serious consideration to be given to this trait as well. As a condition guardian, 11 times out of 10 I would take Amplified Wrath over this GM even if I’m not using torch or purging flames. There’s seriously no reason to take RR as it is now. It amounts to almost no damage increase, and offers nothing else to compensate.

I like the idea of this GM, it is very novel, and could provide another means of offence for condi guards and hybrid guards. I like the idea of turning retaliation into “oh ****! don’t freaking attack; that guard’s got retal on!”

Considering that this GM is competing with Amplified wrath for a GM trait, which is a pretty strong and offensive condi GM trait, I think a great option would be to make this GM something that is both defensive and offensive.

What if RR did this:

Retaliation now scales with condition damage. Apply weakness (2s, 10s icd per foe) to foes affected by retaliation that you apply.

*note: slightly lower base retal damage than normal, but high scaling such that a full condi build would be dishing out 350-400 retal ticks

This may be op, but something like this would make RR a worthy GM trait, and a great contender for AW. This trait would also be a decent option for power and hybrid guardians who could use this GM trait for its defensive nature as well. It might even encourage players to use the master trait Retribution to get the most out of retaliation as a boon.

I dunno about you guys, but I logged in, rubbed my shield all over my face, pressed 4 and 5 multiple times and said to myself “we soooo deserve thisssss” …. no…. just me? >_>

I took the new shield for a spin while roaming as a med guard. If you take zeal (for shattered aegis) and are rollin with a party, shield is extremely useful, and actually puts out decent dps due to shattered aegis. The mobile projectile bubble is great for escaping and helping allies escape

Very happy with the shield; it’s a step in the right direction. It could still use some tweaks here and there, but we’ll get to that in time.

In terms of “fixing” shield, I think the next place we should turn our attention to is the trait. It’s honestly not very useful, and is redundant considering shields already provide additional toughness.

Canakun.8031:

The longer channel time on shield 5 is compensation for the fact that you can move with it, I guess.
It’s an exchange.
But if you play it right you don’t really lose out on anything.

Hold up, I think I missed something, could some1 please explain to me?

From what I gather, it sounds like we’re getting some sort of trade-off for shield #5. Mobility is the good thing, but 4sc channel time is the bad thing? How is this a tradeoff though, can’t we still detonate the dome early if we wanted to?

The way I see it, this is a double buff to shield #5: Not only is the channel time the FULL 4 seconds like the tooltip said (and we can still detonate immediately if we want to), but we can move while using it. I’m not seeing how there is any sort of trade off or “compensation” involved here, just two straight up buffs.

As a side note: I also tried out a meditations power build with Longbow and Mace/f. It’s pretty neat! Has great damage and good dueling potential! Definitely a contender for spvp, but not so much for roaming or zerging (again, no cc unless you use HL, and very low mobility).

I can understand your dislike of heavy light. I didn’t like it at first either, but I started adapting my playstyle around it and found it to be pretty nifty if you keep certain landmarks in mind!

- You can very easily control which arrow knocks back enemies upon switching to longbow/entering combat at first. This lets you set up very neat combos. My two favorites are: Cast Trueshot—> JI—→(trueshot hits, they get KBed)—> use Wings of Resolve—→ switch to gs, WW. The other combo I’m fond of is WoR—> Chase them (if they dodge), KB with longbow 1 auto —> Free Trueshot hit. Have yet to see someone avoid the follow-up trueshot after getting KBed. More often than not, I would switch to lb, and used this first guaranteed KB to interrupt some1 stomping an ally.

-If you stay on longbow for >10s, yes it’s a bit harder to tell when that second KB comes. In general though, you know it’s coming about 1-2 seconds after your second trueshot (assuming you use it liberally). I generally like to do the second true shot, back up a bit, deflecting shot, and then run forward with autoattack knowing 1 of my next 3 arrows is gonna KB, then I get in a free trueshot. Personally I felt like I had good control of when the second KB occurred and was able to make good use of it.

Hey Soryuju, very nice analysis of the DH in medi guard builds!

A small issue I have with your build though is taking Hunter’s Fortification over Heavy Light for the GM. If you ran GS and x/(focus or shield), then Hunter’s Fort is the obvious choice, but with gs/longbow you’re only going to be removing 1-3 condis through blocking (potentially more, most likely this though).

As for Sw/f and LB, it looks nice on paper, but I fear it’s not that great. I tried running essentially this build in both pvp and wvw roaming during BWE 2. The thing I suffered from most was lack of burst, and cleaving. It had good dps, but the lack of burst through gs 2, 3, and 5 was something I sorely missed, and is something I felt could have won me a couple 1v1s. In spvp, sw/f doesn’t provide very good pressure if you’re up against more than one opponent.

The 10% damage reduction of HF is great as a power med guard, but being able to cc with the HL trait is more valuable as a med guard where you have little else to cc with (especially with your build). This helps with rezzes, preventing stomps, and just raw dueling power (allows you to land Trueshot, or combo JI + Trueshot (knockback) + WoR + other burst).

Edit: Turned my wall of text into a slightly smaller wall of text. My apologies

Ghotistyx.6942:

wvw objective defender drop your traps in a chokepoint and plink away from range. Zealot’s Aggression will be the master trait, everything else is hopefully correct.

Trolling shall be had heheh

I would love to try this! I’m an avid WvW player (both zerging and roaming) and occasionally will dabble in spvp as well. If anyone has a build for me, I’d be happy to give it a go and report back here

Vapour.7348:

UGH not another one of these burns op threads again….

Burns are not OP. All they do is use up your cleansing. You don’t have any? Well too bad, you deserve it for not adapting or for being greedy towards increasing your damage output with your traits and utilities

Burn guardians are not OP, let them be. Burn guards and engies make the game more challenging. And no I don’t play high burn stacking classes.

These burn builds are child’s play to counter compared to a much much much more dangerous build that I know of but luckily under-represented atm.

Yes, yes they are. Just because there is ample counter-play around them does not mean that they aren’t op. The real issue isn’t so much burn, but rather certain culprits (D/D ele’s ring of fire, and guardian’s purging flames for example).

If someone manages to get 4+ stacks of burning on them, then perhaps they do deserve to get roasted to a crisp, but stacking said burns should not be so easy as just throwing down purging flames on burn guard, watching people rack up 3-6 stacks of burn with that alone. If they don’t cleanse it (which many don’t until they figure out your a burn guard), they lose half of their hp. Are you telling me that this kind of damage output on such a short cd isn’t op?

Just thought I’d throw this in:

I made an ele, learned d/d build in 2 hours, and near effortlessly beat a shatter mesmer in a 1v1 twice. Then I proceeded to 1v1 a very experienced sword/shield & longbow warrior for about 2-4 minutes before finally retreating (and surviving). I played very poorly (got hit by nearly all of his sword flurries, and got bursted every time I came out of water) and still survived for that long…

I think longbow and virtues are in a good spot now! Longbow is shaping up to be a fine weapon with decent damage, range, and decent traited effects. The virtues are starting to receive very adequate utility (and cd!) for their loss of instant cast time which makes the tradeoff worthwhile. I’m really excited to use the DH virtues in a wvw zerg build, and a roaming build!

One area we fall short though is the traps. I hope the devs look more closely at traps. Traps need a bit of up-tuning imo. I understand traps require a certain playstyle, but currently the traps: Offer only mediocre damage on power-based builds, cc that can easily be dealt with, have only a little bit of condition damage (better to take purging flames), long cds, no boons, no condi clear and no team support. Even for a selfish build, I think that a medi, or shouts guardian is going to out-shine a trap guardian.

Like Thaddeus said, Litany can be used very effectively in certain scenarios. I switch between Litany and shelter frequently. When you know you’re up against condi builds, necros, and eles, Litany is more useful imo. Litany only keeps you in the cast for 1/4 of a second which allows you to keep applying a lot of pressure, and not waste time on a cast. Additionally, if you manage focus 5, blinds, and f3 decently, you can get by without the block from shelter. This of course changes when you’re fighting more than 2 or 3 people though, and shelter becomes a much better choice for survivability.

If you’re roaming with a group of allies, then yes, staff can work! I roamed GS/Staff, meditations with a mes and an ele once. Staff helped keep us alive a little bit longer vs. a larger random group of roamers we fought, and the 12 stacks of might/line of warding cc of helped the lock-down quite a bit.

As for 1v1ing, I really REALLY doubt it. Your only way of dishing out consistent and decent damage is staff 1 and symbol. Neither of these two options is going to out-class the damage your opponent will meanwhile be dealing to you.

Did you perhaps link the wrong build? I’m seeing a condi necro here.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

That seems kinda silly, I should be able to kill any class, and not be hard countered or pigeon-holed into zerkmeta… that’s really disappointing actually

Sorry buddy, I don’t like it either, but that’s the way it is lol. As I said before, you have a decent chance of 1v1ing a d/d ele with a burn guard.

See the quote from Salamander though, eles will likely get the nerfbat in due time which could possibly lessen their sustain.

In WvW, you can pull off some nice upsets and burst a DD down if you run full-zerk. If you’re not the one focused, this becomes a lot easier in a 2v2 or 3v3.

From my experience in spvp, you have a decent chance at 1v1ing an ele as a burn guard as long as they aren’t running Diamond Skin.

An excellent DD ele isn’t going to lose to most power- med guards though, that’s just how it is at the moment :/

I think we all agree that shield needs rework of some sort. Not a cooldown reduction, but a rework! 20-35 second cooldowns worked fine for shield, and would be great if the skills were stronger and more impactful. As it stands now, shield comes across as a very niche weapon (when you need extra projectile defence for fractals, supporting a group of 5+, knocking a thief out of SR). Even in these situations, we have other options that compete with shield. For projectile defence we have a spirit weapon, and Wall, for supporting groups of 5+ in, we have staff and hammer and for knocking a thief out of SR, we have binding blades, and banish if you’re lucky. In all other cases, it behooves you to use focus, or torch as an offhand.

I love the animations and concepts behind guardian shield, but we really need some added functionality (group aegis, or a BLOCK!). Additionally the trait for shield is redundant (shields already give bonus toughness, and SiN gives almost the same amount of toughness as it stays with you after a weapon swap). A reworking of the trait which adds interesting functionality to the shield, or perhaps some sort of boon on shield skill use would be most appropriate.

Hey Karl! Good to see that you are listening to our feed back, and have taken many of our suggestions into consideration!

I would still like to see Pure of Sight and Defender’s Dogma addressed though. These two minor traits are still not very impactful, and are not that helpful to most builds, or thematically representative of DH. Here is my issue with each, the logic, and a proposed fix:

-Defender’s Dogma: Yes, this ability will be getting juiced up if you decide to take Zealot’s Aggression, but it still remains fairly weak, and not very useful to most builds.
It is only mildly useful to a condition build (most burning builds will be using torch, so you aren’t going to benefit from focus’ blocks), and a more reliable way to stack burns would be Supreme Justice. If you don’t take Zealot’s aggression (because Soaring Devastation will also be relatively strengthened due to f2 cooldown), Defender’s Dogma is not very useful at all. Not to mention, Defender’s Dogma is next to useless for a power-based Guardian build.

-Suggested Fix: Let this minor trait give us something that will be useful to most Guardian builds! Perhaps blocking an attack will reduce the recharge of virtues by a static amount (2 seconds, 1 second internal cooldown)? This would heavily benefit f1, would encourage us to use f1, and would REALLY benefit our other virtues if we took the virtues trait line. It screams synergy!

-Pure of Sight: Argue as you may, but this trait is a longbow trait. It primarily benefits, and encourages us to use longbow. This is something that no other minor trait in other elite specs does. Not very good design imo.

-Suggested Fix: Roll the 10% damage modifier into the longbow trait. This makes longbow a lot more versatile as it will have benefits both close up, and far away. As for our grandmaster minor trait, it should be something specialization-making! It is clear that with this grandmaster minor, you aim to encompass both power and selfishness (the damage modifier) while stressing group support (staying at range and dealing damage). You can accomplish this with something that stresses the use of our virtues: Gain 7% additional damage for each virtue that is on recharge. When a virtue recharges, grant allies might (2 stacks, 8 seconds, 1s icd). This would make for a very versatile grandmaster minor that stresses the use of our virtues, and benefits both power and condition builds!

Shield suffers currently because it is lackluster in comparison to other offhand options we have in nearly all situations. Shield can be more uesful but is still very situational. Additionally, it does not block…. literally EVERY other shield-wielding class can block with shield.

In my opinion, they should up the cool down of shield skills, but increase the prowess of them (added functionality, damage, stronger boons, longer duration, etc.). Additionally, the trait for shield is very boring. It should instead focus on giving a boon of some sort, or offering something other than additionaly toughness as this is very redundant (doubly redundant; shield itself already offers toughness, and then we could just take Strength in #s if we wanted extra toughness).

Here’s an interesting fix I thought of:

Shield 4: Block attacks while creating a shielding wave in front of you that damages foes and grants protection to allies. Cast time: 3/4 sec, cool down: 25 s. Damage: 900 base, protection: 6 seconds, Block: 3/4 seconds.

-Idea: Longer cast time means this skill is more telegraphed, so it’s a bit harder to use offensively. It offers decent support to allies, and self defence. The damage of this skill makes it very rewarding to use. The idea behind the animation is to make it look like you’re parrying with the shield, hence the block.

Shield 5: Same animation and ability, with one additional functionality— pulse resistance to allies within the light dome (1s, 4pulses). Detonate the dome early to grant yourself and all allies aegis for 5 seconds. Dome Duration: 4 seconds, Knockback is the same. Cooldown: 35 seconds.

-Idea: The idea here is to make shield #5 rewarding, hence its long cool down. It would offer great team support, whether you need an instant aegis for allies, or some defence against condis. You ahve to stand still and be inactive for your allies to get the resistance which would balance out the fact that you yourself can’t do anything.

The trait could do something like add an additional boon, or perhaps add the resistance/aegis boon to shield 5, and add an additional boon/damage bonus to shield 4 if an attack is blocked.

My feedback is going to be based on a pvp/WvW perspective:

General: DH brings ranged cc, and great team support through their shield of courage, and large heal on wings of resolve. For power builds, DH brings the hurt, but I can’t say the same for condi builds. Other than spear of justice, DH doesn’t seem very condi build friendly. I recommend adding a burn to one of the traps (fragments of faith would make sense). Aside from minor bugs, I’m happy with how DH is going to turn out. I think traits need to be looked at and reconsidered though.

-Virtues: The increased f1 velocity is nice. Still needs to be a 1/4s cast time. 3/4 is fine as long as you lower the aftercast. No complaints about f2. The increased healing is great, and I like the cast time. The cast time makes this skill more about tactical and skillful use rather than a panic heal, great job! Shield of courage though…. if you’re going to make the shielding effect start immediately, then you should also make the on-use traits (indomitable courage) start immediately too. Honestly, this virtue does not deserve to be interruptable. Once f3 actually blocks frontal attacks, I think it will be in a great place. Happy with the virtues

-Longbow: The auto attack does good damage. Up the projectile speed like you promised, and I think it will be fine! Please allow Symbol of energy to be fire-able backwards. The increased vigor ticks are a very nice addition. I recommend having all boons pulsed by symbols to be 3-second ticks on that note. Also, increase the damage of Deflecting shot. It should do equal or more damage than an auto attack. Overall I am happy with the longbow. Honestly though, I am of the opinion that #2 should have its cd increased (5 s), and add on a reduce-cd to a longbow trait.

-Traps: They need cd reductions and/or lower cast times. Fragments of faith is great, but it would be better if it had about a 35s cd. Additionally, consider adding boons to at least one of the traps, like maybe 4x might to nearby allies when Dragon’s maw clamps shut or protection to allies standing within the pulsing light of Light’s judgement or swiftness to nearby allies when Fragments of faith is triggered (you know, to more quickly be able to run around and pick up aegis!). This would merit their 1s cast times. As is, trap cds and cast times are too long and lack of sustain or support makes them no fun to use in pvp or wvw.

Traits: I like the proposed trait changes that are coming. As someone who enjoys condi builds and power builds, I really REALLY do not like Defender’s dogma (master minor trait). This trait is completely useless for power builds, and still fairly useless for condi builds. Supreme justice does a much better job of applying burning than this minor trait. Also, this trait encourages you not to use your f1. Please consider removing this minor trait altogether, and coming up with a new one. Place the effect of Defender’s dogma on to another trait though, perhaps on to Big Game Hunter, or Hunter’s fortification. Another change I’d like to propose is to Bulwark (a master major trait). This is somewhat weak, and fairly boring for a master level trait. Here’s a possible fix:

Bulwark: Increases the radius of Shield of courage. Blocking an attack with shield of courage reduces the recharge of your virtues by a static amount: 3 seconds (1 s internal cd).

Used to its full potential, this would allow you to get a nice 10+ second refund on your virtues. This change would make this an excellent master tier trait, and would highly encourage tactical use of f3.

-Animations and sound fx: Last but certainly not least! I want to say good job, I definitely notice these improvements! I’m enjoying the sound fx of our longbow #1 a lot more now. The small trail of light behind longbow #1 makes it seem a lot more impactful. Some suggested changes/additions: Please add a stronger sound effect to Longbow #2. It would make it feel a lot more impactful, like “wow, I just got hit by this HUGE nuke of an arrow, ouch!” Perhaps changing the sound effect to have a small sonic boom/minor explosion upon firing would be great!
Another minor, but awesome addition I encourage you all to make is an animation change to our f3, shield of courage! It would be awesome if within the wall/cone of light we project, for there to be an actual shield. As is, it’s sort of just an amorphous wall of light that blocks projectiles. It looks cool, but it would definitely strike us as more thematic if you had a nice blazing shield in the middle of it!

The main problem with shield is that it is mediocre in comparison to our other offhands. As much as I like shield and tried to make it work, I never use it anymore because its just outclassed.
Some small and thoughtful changes could really turn the shield into an interesting and powerful offhand weapon:
-Add a legitimate block in some form or fashion: This should be through aegis application, or through the trait which would give us aegis application while wielding a shield.
-Change the trait: Our traits that affect weapons add interesting or useful functions: Torch gets another fireball, focus gets protection, gs gets healing. What does the shield trait do? It gives us some toughness…. This is boring, redundant and not very useful. Here’s an example of what our shield trait could be: (assuming shield #5 gives self and nearby allies aegis) Blocking an attack with a shield grants self and nearby allies vigor and resistance (20s icd). Shield recharges are reduced.
-Finally: Rework shield skills. This will likely not occur for a long time, but would be very welcome. Shield skills should be reworked to give an innate block just as every other class has. The easy fix now is to add aegis to a skill, or add access to aegis through the shield trait, but a better fix would be to allow the guardian to block attacks (or even just one attack) with the shield. One skill should be devoted to a block that results in boons to allies, and the other skill should maintain a cc/team support/healing theme

Hey Karl! Thank you for the update, and thank you for listening to the players! Here’s some initial thoughts and feed back for yall on these new DH updates:

-Deflecting shot: Great! The fact that you increased the damage dealt if a projectile is blocked adds a lot more incentive to use Longbow, and to use it strategically! Very smart change.

-Shield of Courage: I hope that you also increase the shielding time from 5 seconds to 5.25 seconds to account for the delay of casting it.

Traits:

-Piercing Light: Great addition! While minor, please consider upping the daze time to 2 seconds. Considering the cool down times of the traps, I think 2 seconds is a good number. Remember: Our primary complaint was that traps didn’t offer a lot of sustain. Dazing an opponent can cleverly be used as a method of sustain, as they can not attack you while dazed. 2 seconds of daze per trap activated offers a decent, but not OP amount of daze up time.

-Dulled senses: How about 2 stacks for 8 seconds? I can see this being great for pve, but in pvp you are still very very unlikely to stack more than 10 vuln on someone with this trait. Please no icd on this trait if you aren’t going to change it from 1 vuln/8s.

-Hunter’s Determination: Great trait! This opens up DH to a lot of build diversity! The theory-crafting gears are already turning!

-Zealot’s Aggression: Again, very nice job, and a lot of us are going to really appreciate legitimate access to cripple with this trait!

-Hunter’s Fortification: Like! This is going to open up a lot of build diversity. I can already see a shout build with some passive condi clear (like Strength of the Fallen), and this trait being able to cleanse a mad amount of condis! Great defensive GM trait.

-Heavy Light: I ALMOST like this trait, and I think it’s close to being in a good spot, but not quite: Simply casting true shot should give us the stack of stability, and here’s why: When you cast true shot, you kneel which is a stable position. This logically and thematically makes sense. A dragonhunter taking a knee, a very stable and steady position, as he prepares an extremely powerful arrow to fire. It does not make sense for us to receive stability when knocking someone back (thematically, this seems like something a mesmer or necro should get), and additionally, it’s a waste of 1-2 seconds of that stability, especially in a 1v1 type scenario: If you knock someone back, that’s 1 second they aren’t going to be attacking/ccing you for, plus they’re probably going to dodge after getting up. Add stability on casting true shot, and this GM will be very competitive with the other two!

Currently Longbow skill #3 (Deflecting shot) seems rather lackluster. It is meant to protect allies, and it can, but only ever so briefly!

Here’s a thought on how we could improve longbow 3: How about when deflecting shot is fired, it leaves behind a residual light trail (somewhat blurry/faint, but noticeable for sure) for a second or two that blocks projectiles? I was thinking something along the lines of elementalist focus skill #4 on earth attunement!

Increase the damage of deflecting shot, allow it to maintain its original projectile block/blind, and then it also leaves behind a line that blocks projectiles for a second or two. To compensate, the cooldown would be increased.

This makes it more powerful but not op, and allows it to better support allies as it was intended to.

Hey Soryu, just wanted to say thank you for putting in your time and effort to propose these changes. Some of your changes are fantastic and sorely needed! Also, you deserve a cookie. Devs should take some notes from your suggestions here

I’m a really big fan of your proposed change to Wings of Resolve:
-Yes, I absolutely agree that this skill should NOT be instant cast. Your logic for this is spot on.
-Traited effects are applied at the beginning of the leap: Eh…? Arguably yes? The idea behind this skill was to heal/affect allies in the area you leap to,whether or not this seems counterintuitive to the whole ranged support idea behind DH.
-Evade while leaping: Yes please! Very welcome addition if implemented. Regen, healing to self/5 allies, damage, immob, and 3 condis cleansed from self/allies should NOT all be thrown down the drain just because some silly mesmer was waiting for you with that daze mantra nonsense.

Some of your changes that I disagree on:

-Shield of Courage knockback: I can’t imagine the logic/physics behind this unless it involved your shield exploding in some way. Personally, I believe Shield of Courage is fine as is, but very desperately NEEDS to be instant cast for a multitude of reasons (the most concerning of which is the 4 second stunbreak).

-Access to the Resistance Boon: Guardians need access to this boon either through virtues, a decent up-time trait (think of ranger’s Protective Ward trait), or through specific skills. Having access to resistance through traps-only might be welcome for a dedicated trapper build, but it pretty much ensures that non-trap guardians (or guardians who aren’t running at least 3 traps) are going to be locked out of having a useful amount of resistance.

-Spear of Justice being Instant cast: It takes time to throw a spear. I think the velocity is fine, I never had problems hitting people with it. Cast time should be 0.25s though.

-Zealot’s March: Very interesting concept, and I’m glad that you took a chance in suggesting this. I think that this trait might make for a coding nightmare though, no? Even if it didn’t, it would have to do something else (gain a break bar after using channeled skills, gain swiftness after using channeled skills). For many DH builds, this would literally only affect Longbow #2, and Longbow #5 and honestly the roots on those skills are totally worth the pay-off. I’m going to have to disagree with you on this even being a trait.

It didn’t work with spear of justice. Have Wrath of Justice traited → Press f1 → chuck a spear → spear hits them→ enemy is not immobilized As far as I’m aware.

Darknicrofia.2604:

skill #3 can’t be fired behind you and is about as practical as trying to stop a gunman by shooting his bullets with your own bullets in actual application.

Your comparison made me lol. Agreed though.

Imo this skill requires far too much skill and luck to be used as intended by the devs. Would be great if the skill straight up reflected projectiles. I doubt we’re gonna get this skill firing behind us though. Mechanically speaking this is a forward firing skill.

Hello! I just wanted to say thank you for making some of these changes. They are very welcomed! After spending the vast majority of BWE 1 playing and testing out DH, I have to say that the following changes/lack of changes are NOT welcome:

-Longbow: Please let Symbol of Energy be fireable backwards. Increase velocity of auto attack.

-Longbow-related Traits: We have three longbow-only traits. Three of them. Really? What if I want to play DH but not use longbow? Please consider rolling Hunter’s Determination into Heavy Light, or combining Hunter’s determination, and Pure of Sight so that a new GM minor trait could be created.
Side note: The point of Heavy Light was to quickly interrupt and/or get in a free True Shot, not create distance. You pretty much just pigeonholed many of us into Big Game Hunter now. 7-8s cd was fine.

-Cripple: The change to Dulled Senses was pointless. We still do NOT have decent access to cripple. Every class in the game has reliable access to cripple except guardian (rev has chill on weapon skills). This trait should be a boring “% chance to cause cripple on hit,” OR “% chance to cause cripple with longbow skills,” OR “inflict vulnerability on opponents you knock back. Cripple enemies that you make vulnerable.” All of thes options would give us more reliable access to cripple.

-Virtues: f3 needs to be instant cast. Needs to. Lots of good reasons why, no good reasons as to why not. Also consider making f1, f2, and f3 a projectile finisher, leap finisher, and light field respectively. This falls in line with the theme of our virtues becoming more physical/material.

-Virtue related traits: 3 second immob for soaring devestation is borderline op. 2 seconds is fine. Please change/add to Hunter’s Fortification. It’s so weak/redundant that it can’t compete with any other trait at any other level. Note: This would be a great place to add the Resistance boon. 3 seconds of resistance and 5 seconds of protection upon activating a virtue!

-Traps: Not much to say. Still never going to use them. Low sustainability, no team support, mediocre damage and cc.

Consecration skills deal placing down a wall, or area of effect which is beneficial to allies and harmful to foes. In order for shelter to fit this theme, its functionality and maybe mechanics would have to be changed. Not gonna happen. We love our mobile 2 second self- block on 30 sec cd :p

Since the patch, celestial med guard and condi damage med guard have become a LOT more powerful due to how broken burning is at the moment. If you’re looking for a power-based med guard build, they’re still fairly effective, but we tend to get outclassed by our celestial/condi damage counterparts. Here is the power based med guard roaming build I like to use:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-B;4NFk20G3BG-90;9;4nQO;0147148137;4JBl3U;1t_MTt_MTh-FQ3-DY10;1Jct6bcc6dbd62kVJN1k;5NYCqk2Eqk2Ewk2EwF2;9;9;9;9AN8c0p

Note: you can change out zeal for radiance like this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-B;4NFk20G3BG-90;9;4nQN;0147148147;4JBl3U;1t_MTt_MTh-FQ3-DY10;1Jct6bcc6dbd62kVJN1k;5NYCqk2Eqk2Ewk2EwF2;9;9;9;9AN8c0p

On Zeal vs. Radiance, it really depends on what weapons you prefer using. If you like to run GS & Sw/F, then I recommend radiance for the reduced sword cds.

Good luck!

I think it would be a cool idea if our longbow auto attack looked more like true shot, and if true shot was an arrow that had a sort of spiralling light effect to it (would make its piercing functionality seem a lot more kitten and solid if you ask me)!

Silhouette.5631:

HOW ABOUT A SHIELD?!

+1ed

Condi cleanse is currently the best solution we have to dealing with burning. There is no argument; burning is currently overpowered and needs to be nerfed in some way. This is coming from someone who has extensively played with a burn-guardian, and against burn guardians/other burning builds.

Lucentfir, I see your point with the extension of boon duration, but I still disagree with the extension of condition duration. This doesn’t thematically match the concept behind guardian’s shield (group support, and cc). Adding extra boon duration would be great for giving our team mates additional protection up time, as well as juicing up our virtue activations. Perhaps cleansing conditions, or dazing enemies on shield #4 would be a better fit over increasing condition duration on shield?

Great skill rework ideas! It maintains the theme of shield while making it more viable and giving it an ACTUAL BLOCK (we’re going to be the only class with shield that can’t block….).

Seriously, they need to re-work shield. I absolutely love shield, and I’ve tried my hardest to make it work. In every case that I’ve found some minor success with it, I’m better off just taking focus instead. There are PLENTY of things that could be done to shield to make it viable/useable. Lets just cross our fingers and hope that anet takes a look at our pleas here after they’re done developing HoT. I highly doubt anything will be done until then :/

Kamikazi.5380:

Dragonhunter virtues need to be instant cast.

You can use the Shield of Courage to stun break if you have the Virtues GM trait, but if you are fast enough you can cancel it to put it on a 4 second recharged and use it as a stunbreaker again.

So basically get a 4 second stun breaker. They all should just be instant cast.

Agreed. I wrecked a thief in a duel with this; stun broke basilisk venom, and the stolen-item 3 second daze. I’m curious though; how do you suggest f2 be instant cast? If traited it’s very powerful, and imo it shouldn’ be instant cast. Also, it would look awkard for you to suddenly leap in the air and land in the middle of doing some other animation.