Guild Wars 2

Lets discuss the changes, shall we! Here is my take from a pvp and wvw standpoint:

Offense-based nerfs:

• Smite condition: really? I don’t think this was necessary. In light of nerfs other classes received, I suppose this one is fair though.
• Test of Faith: 10% is fair. This skill did quite a bit of damage to squishier opponents who were more likely to fall victim to it (thieves, mesmer and some necros).
• Trueshot: Nope. This is a terrible nerf. It already didn’t hit very hard and the fact that you had to remain immobilized and had a very obvious/long cast time for a reflectable projectile made the skill balanced. Also, this resulted in a highly unnecessary nerf to DH roamers in WvW when other overperforming roamer classes received absolutely no nerfs at all (in fact, thief got heavily buffed with shortbow/pistol changes). Idk what Anet dev got wrecked by a DH roamer but they shouldn’t take it out on the rest (few) of us in this manner. This change just tossed LB into the trash can.
• Spear of Justice: This is a nice buff but not really game changing. Experienced DH shouldn’t really be too excited about this. If you tether someone and then they stealth, you know that you can pull them to your location (and so do your allies if you’re coordinated). I don’t necessarily agree with this buff being implemented considering how powerful SoJ already is but I’ll take it considering the nerfs

Sustain changes:

• The buff for “Save Yourselves!” is about 6-12 months overdue. Sorry Anet, no praise for you on this one. 1.5s is a bit short but considering that many guardians in WvW run with some boon duration plus any boon duration from revenants, it’s easily balanced.
• Wings of Resolve: Rather neutral about this change. Other classes have had their sustain nerfed so I suppose this change is fair.
• Shield of Courage: It’s almost a neutral change (roughly the same block time/second) but I believe it’s an overall nerf and disagree with the change. I made this argument after the patch that knocked SoC from 5 seconds down to 4, and I’ll make it again: 3.5 to 4 seconds is the lowest you should ever go for nerfing SoC’s duration. If you go down to 3 seconds, it’s almost not worth it to use the skill considering its cast time (unless you’re specifically using it to break stun). A 3 second SoC ruins it’s ability to allow guardians to safe stomp (guardian was never that large of an offender in this category anyways).
• Hunter’s Determination: Fair change given the nerfs to other classes. I agree with this nerf.
• Renewed Focus: Nerf not really necessary but I think it’s mostly in line with the other sustain nerfs that went around this patch, so no large complaints.

Underused utilities… First of all, we really gotta try em out before we critique them imo but here are my initial opinions:

• Signet of Mercy: Good change. I may actually use it in wvw now that it can compete with warrior and mesmer revival tools. I likely won’t use it as a mainstay but may swap to it in some situations.
• Hallowed Ground: I think a 40 second cd would have been more appropriate. Otherwise, I like this change.
• Signet of Courage: A positive change but honestly this is how it should have been a couple balance patches ago. The only thing stopping me from using it is the trash passive effect. The healing interval should be 4 or 5 seconds imo.
• Signet of Judgement: That was a very nice buff for the passive effect but this signet is a defensive one, not an offensive one so I don’t think the stacks of burning are a good idea. Those 2 stacks of burning should be moved to Signet of Wrath and give a short duration of aoe protection on Signet of Justice instead.
• Wall of Reflection: Great change! I think WoR has hit its sweet spot now in terms of pvp balance.

Trueshot nerf in wvw is absolutely uncalled for. Literally the only group of players this hurts are DH roamers (lol, what roamers?). In zergs, guardian/DH don’t use longbow and when they do, it’s mainly for LB5 (Hunter’s Ward). Lets look at what the skill can do now:

• 3-6k crits against most players (assuming the dragonhunter is using largely marauder’s gear with some berserker’s and/or soldier’s mixed in)
• Hits on average 1-3 players in zerg fights.
• Offers absolutely no bonuses outside of damage
• Roots the player
• Absolutely no support on this skill for condition builds
• Has a very obvious cast animation and is avoidable by reflex alone
• Reflectable (this alone merits trueshot never receiving nerfs in wvw)

Anet, please reconsider this change. It is absolutely not necessary for WvW. I’ve already ceased roaming nearly altogether on my guardian since the scene is completely dominated by highly mobile classes with stealth access and this is just another nail in the coffin. Now, DH lack pressure on longbow in small group fights or 1v1 since both of their hardest hitting skills are easily avoidable and don’t hit that hard to begin with. This hasn’t ruined DH/guardian but I think I’ll definitely be dropping longbow for some time now.

Assuming you’re talking roaming builds:

A DH, fighting/dueling a thief is one of the easier matchups but even still, a very good thief can beat a DH even if the DH is pretty skilled. If you are really having trouble, my best piece of advice is to bleed out as many of their utilities as possible by auto-attacking and using low CD skills. From there, lay on the burst after you count 3 to 4 dodges in a short time period (2 to 4 seconds). Save your JI until later in the battle when they try to shadowstep away and keep them in bow auto-attack range as often as possible.

Now then, fighting a thief as a DH may be easy but killing one is not. 9 times out of 10 they can escape you and if they’re experienced, they will escape you no matter what sort of combo you start the fight with. My most effective way to kill a thief has been deception: play dumb and then bomb hard. Start it in sword/x (preferably traited shield so you can absorb more damage off the initial burst) and pretend to not notice them go stealth. The moment you hear noise/see daze or stun effect on your screen, you know that the auto stunbreak trait will proc and negate basi venom so immediately use sword 3, target them, ToF and smite condition bomb. F1 to try to catch them after a panic dodge and pull them back through ToF. If they start running, switch to LB and chase them with JI and auto attacks.

Kuya.6495:

mrauls.6519:

I hope there will be a power option :/

Why? That’s what DH is for.

Not completely true. I don’t think an elite spec is binary in terms of being exclusively power or condi. DH actually offers a lot for burn guardian builds (in pvp/wvw settings):

Granted, it does more for power builds.

What we’re all hoping for is that Firebrand will finally give guardians a decent condition based options that don’t rely on opponent ignorance to win. This is probably what firebrand will bring to the table but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t offer power-based options.

Just for fun: I’m willing to bet that axe is going to be a weapon well-suited for either power or condi – power as is, condi/hybrid if traited for.

Very very likely that this is completely or mostly fake news.

Just FYI for anyone curious, this is a supposed leak that was posted on the GW2 reddit some hours ago.

I doubt this is anything more than a dubious rumour though:

A lot of the info presented in the leak highly contradicts leaked info that other players have. Namely, the “papaya” leak which is from the same guy who leaked the gen 2 legendary mace and eternal coliseum pvp map.

Just from the perspective of guardian leaks alone though:

They are highly unlikely. The leak mentions nothing of tomes (which we are most likely going to receive in some form or fashion for this expac). It’s preposing we get shortbow which is extremely unlikely given that we just got longbow. Also, a second minion utility (spirits) seems very unlikely given that we already have spirit weapons. Taken together though: giving guardians shortbow AND spirits would push us even further into becoming rangers…. we already got longbow and traps last expac, it would be a very odd and ill-received move on the dev team’s part.

Here’s some math:

Taking the formula for damage dealt to be:

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

And the following assumptions:

• Thief to be using marauder’s amulet, scholar runes, force sigil

• Thief has DA/Trickery/Daredevil traitlines and going for all damage modifiers (except executioner)

• Thief is using assassin’s signet

• You are using marauder’s amulet (2167 armor)

• You had one condition on you (vuln, cripple, blind, poison)

Then vault could theoretically hit:

(1111 × 2225 × 2.25)/2167 …. multiplied by 1.94 (critical hit) gives: 4980 damage.

Then come the multipliers from assassin’s signet, traits, runes and sigil: 4980 × 1.1 × 1.1 x 1.1 × 1.1 × 1.15 x 1.05 × 1.07 = 9419 damage.

This isn’t altogether unlikely. The damage is still a bit ridiculous yes, but vault is definitely avoidable on reflex.

CrimeMaker.8612:

Also one other reason Arena net gave me was “5pm PDT reset time is too early for me pacific players.” I guess they dont mind it being too late for East coast players…

Speaking subjectively here, 5pm is not as early for west coast players as 10pm is late for east coast players. They really should revert to the previous times. Getting on and only being able to play an hour or two for reset is quite offputting.

Boon removal is quite different from corrupt. I think these suggestions are decent but they likely won’t be considered unless our next elite specialization also involves some boon removal (or brings about changes that give us boon removal) so the mechanic can be more rooted for the guardian class and not just be an odd mechanic on a single skill.

Choppy.4183:

Abelisk.4527:

Yes, only blocks from the front.

I’ll have to test it again then. I was using Whirlwind Attack from behind (dodge through to back, direct the attack back into him), which is up to four hits and I think they were all blocked.

Could be wrong, but I’ll report back here either way. In any case, thanks for the responses.

Upon activating f3, you also receive aegis so it’s possible that the first strike of whirlwind was blocked by aegis and by that time, you were far enough in front of the DH that your remaining strikes were blocked by the shield.

In 1v1 scenario vs. power revs, I find the following two things help a LOT:

1. Burst them coming out of their sword 3. They usually like to follow sword 3 up with some auto attack or sword 2. My favorite is to lay ToF, purposely let them use sword 3, count 5 strikes, then immediately shield 5 them at the end + f1 pull them back through.

2. Watch for their glint heal. If they are on glint and at lower than 70% hp, do NOT use ToF. Good revenants like to match up Glint heal to your bursts and ToF is one of the easier burst skills for them to do this on. Keep dps up (symbols, auto attack, maybe some CC) but wait till after Glint Heal to lay on your burst.
A good revenant is not going to beat a good DH unless they make good use of their glint heal (which they can if you faceroll).

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

0s windup so according to ur definition it could be instant cast. and I can confirm that RF is not affected by pulm or basi. An enemy CANNOT Interupt RF. only 4 things can in pvp: dodge, swap, stow and jump pads.

This is correct. Unblockables/wards do not go through invuln. In wvw I have run into the issue a couple times where a slight server delay resulted in me going down (not from condis) since the server registered me being hit before the RF cast began but I have only encountered the problem maybe 4 or 5 times over the past 2 years and have not once encountered this problem in PvP.

I think this is a good idea. This would increase the value of small havoc groups/roamers (who actually may rely on stealth-captures) whereas it may not change the gameplay much for larger zergs who wouldn’t bother taking the time/resources to destroy the balloon.

What are your thoughts on….

Sword/shield & Scepter/focus (set 1)

vs.

Sword/focus & Sc/shield (set 2)?

I understand you have different priorities for a burn or celestial guardian. As a power DH though, I very much prefer set 1. Set 1 balances your blinds/blocks for both weapon sets giving you better sustain. Set 2 gives you slightly more burst potential (if you’re not using traps) and slightly more kiting potential on Sc/sh but I believe you also really lose out on taking advantage of either focus’ burst potential or sword’s high melee dps if you pair sword and focus.

Edit: typo

I’d like this change. Part of the reason I don’t use this skill very often is due to the long cooldown (really punishing for you if your opponent counterplays it).

Liston.9708:

kefro.9312:

Probably because siege counts as population

this is 2017 not 2015…..

Yeah, but disloyal, bandwagoning “fight” guilds ignorantly perpetuating an old and now highly inaccurate stereotype, whatcha gonna do?

Phat Stackage.5329:

I love the changes to guard for the most part. Really happy to have my GS back. My only complaint is how SUPER CLUNKY our SoJ feels now. Hope anet considers .5 cast time rather then keeping the .75. =x

I second this. GS changes are awesome! I’m actively trying to land GS 2 now and loving the numbers I’m seeing. Still wish GS 5 was buffed slightly (like, reduce after-cast, reduce cast time, or increase projectile speed).

And yeah, f1 is very awkward to use now. Making the cast time of throw 0.75s didn’t really add that much counterplay for other classes. The animation for it is still fairly subtle, and the spear is still pretty fast. My ratio of spear tethers to spear throws is actually about the same as it has been before, but that extra half second has ruined certain comboes :/

Lets not give up on suggesting changes just yet! It is the changes that are suggested here well before the balance patches that are most often considered for said balance patches.

ANet, you implemented some very interesting and welcome changes to guardian with this patch and also some necessary nerfs. I think DH will be in a fair spot and have adequate counterplay at this point from a pvp perspective. That being said, there are plenty of small buffs you could still make that would improve the game for most everyone without overtuning guards:

- Go all the way on GS! Improve GS 5 a bit (projectile speed, cast time, aftercast, leash range, damage, combo of some or all of these, take your pick).
- Don’t let hammer 5 root guardians during cast. Make it reduced movement like GS 2.
- Mace still needs some love.
- Staff 2 and 4 still need love. Staff 2 is only situationally useful and has too long of a CD for that situation; staff 4 should not be held back from buffs JUST because of its synergy with the AH trait.
- Please fix torch skills…. many many suggestions have been made here.
- Continue to buff underused utilities. By this, we don’t mean shouts. Shouts are definitely used. We’re talking signets, spirit weapons and some consecrations. Buffing these utilities may involve changing the traits too.

These GS changes were very welcome but I fear these changes aren’t enough. In particular GS5 is still lacking. Compared to pre-HoT times, GS5 right now is a very poor CC. The animation is very obvious, the projectiles are too slow, the cast times are also too slow (pull cast time is longer than f1 pull cast time) and the leash range is too short. Often times I found myself easily able to leash people with GS5, and all it took was 2 dodges from a thief and they were already out of range.

The trap heal was necessary imo. The ridiculous heal amount of it seriously carried some players. HOWEVER, I am quite disappointed that not all the other huge offenders out there were nerfed as well:

• Adrenal Health: Okay, this one actually was nerfed. Good job, ANet.
• “We Heal as One!” Pretty huge offender when it comes to heal skills. Probably not quite as bad as Purification since it has slightly less utility but it still healed for a large amount. I would have liked to have seen this skill nerfed by around 4-7%.
• Pretty much all CA heal skills. Even after the nerf 2 patches ago, I’m still regularly seeing marauders/non healing power druids practically heal back to full hp within 1-2 seconds of entering CA. CA is essentially a second heal skill for druids and that’s not even mentioning the mainstay power and utility of this elite-spec function in pve raids. Base healing should be nerfed once more (with increased healing power scaling to compensate); marauder’s/berserker’s druids should not be healing as much as they currently are.
• Channeled Vigor: This skills is effectively 5.5k heal on a 16s cooldown. Not to mention, interrupting this skill isn’t very rewarding for other players since the daredevil is healed in pulses and will more often than not get off 2/3 pulses before you can interrupt.
  Just for comparison…. before this patch, a fully-traited purification healed around 420 health/second (about 10k hp/24s cd). Channeled vigor (assuming you’re always lacking endurance when using it) heals 345 health/s (5.5k/16s). Not as bad of course, but it could still use a small nerf. I would say, a nerf to the cooldown (up it to 24s) and to compensate, the amount healed when your endurance is full could be increased by around 5-7%.

Last but not least, lets not forget that light-field blasting now cures condis. This is a huge buff for hammer-guardians. Assuming the condi-clearing actually works (UNNNLLLLIKE some finishers in light fields), hammer can clear a condi on average once per 5 seconds. Definitely a cool change.

Very disappointed that one of the biggest issues here wasn’t addressed. Why was epidemic not even so much as mentioned in the patch notes? It really needs a fix. At the cost of only requiring a handful of coordinated necros and proper gear, this skill alone carried certain guilds in zerg v zerg fights. There is also the scenario (which isn’t too uncommon) that if you and a group are standing next to a lord and trying to dps it down, all it takes is the literal push of a single button from 1 enemy necro, and 5 people will instantaneously die (30+ stacks of bleed and dozens of stacks of other condis all at once. This WILL kill you in one tick if you don’t have resistance on beforehand). This is a problem, things like this shouldn’t exist in the game.

Haha oh man, I’ve run into this build before; had some1 tapping our keep in EBG for nearly an hour or two and no matter how many of us chased him, we couldn’t down him. It’s a huuuuuuge pain in the kitten to try and kill it and honestly it’s borderline op for this reason.

The only way I’ve found to effectively kill this build is luck; get a DH or two (and a condi ranger/thief if possible), have them lay ALL of their traps in a place you expect the thief to run across, and stay around 1200-1800 units from this location. If the burst doesn’t kill them, open up with an unblockable. Even then, if the thief expects this, they can possibly survive (Instant reflexes trait in acro + very fast shadowstep).

NotASmurf.1725:

DH would be fine if F1 and F3 got nerfed. F1 should either take longer to cast, be on a higher CD, or be blockable. F3 needs a duration decrease, show me one other block in the game that doesn’t need to be channeled and lets you do your full burst while its up.

Obsidian Flesh. Same duration, instant-cast, can’t CC to counter, can’t use unblockables to counter, has an even lower CD.

Don’t forget, DH’s F3 already had a duration decrease to 4s, down from 5. If you go any lower than 4s, F3 may not even be worth using (unless you have indomitable courage or bulwark traited) due to the ratio of cast time to sustain you’ll get out of it.

The best place to nerf DH is the healing trap; the sustain DH receive from it really carries many players. (Assuming DH is standing on another player and has medis traited…) 10k hp instantaneously with 0 healing power on a 24s CD is a tad bit overpowered, don’t you think?

Experienced guard/DH roamer here. I probably run a build similar to yours so I think I can weigh in:

DH has no hardcounters in my opinion.

Buuuut there are some softcounters to DH: Staff & Sw/w shout trooper druid. Condi chrono running chaos and illusions, good warr running might signet, boon corrupt condi necro, staff acro thief, power rev.

Even against any of these classes/builds, I find that they can be beaten by either chsnging a utility or changing how you play:

Shout trooper druid: use Sc/F instead of longbow. Focus on dps, use bursts when they’re at around half hp and not on staff. Stay as close as possible to them; if you constantly match your gap closers to their gap openers, you will win.

Condi Chrono: use hunter’s fortification for extra condi removal. Consider using Sc/F or switching CoP in for JI. It’s a winnable duel, more difficult when roaming.

Might signet warr: keep dps up throughout entire fight. Kite them hard if you see might signet + berserk mode pop. Always save one stunbreaker (if you get headbutted, you’re finished). Watch for endure pain stance, burst them as soon as it ends.

Boon corrupt necro: run CoP instead of JI. They aren’t very fast so staying within 300 to 700 units from them at all times isn’t too difficult (no need for JI).

Staff acro thief: always run towards them when they’re dodge spamming (prevents their dps through bounding dodger). Watch and listen for staff 5; dodge or block it every time. Watch for their steal. After they use steal is generally a good time to use heals (f2, heal trap). Keep dps up the whole fight, and burst after you see multiple dodges in a row.

Power rev: watch very closely for their glint heal. Only use ToF and symbols when you know they’re not going to use glint heal – like if they just swapped to assassin legend, or just used glint heal or are near full hp. Longbow works pretty well against them (forces them to close the gap). When they switch to sword/x, also switch to sword/sh or sw/f and play defensively (dodge their sword 2, throw up protection and blocks for their sword 3, burst them right as they come out of sword 3).

I have fought just about everything out there while roaming, dueling, 1v1 or near 1v1 situations multiple times and am pretty confident that we currently aren’t hardcountered. We have the tools to beat or stalemate just about any class/build given that skill level is =.

Playing as a guardian/DH this season, I had fun and performed very well but didn’t enjoy it as much as I had hoped. I really felt pinholed into just a few builds with very little variation to any of them.

• Medi power trapper is nice, performs fairly well in soloq, but you are funneled into Sw/Sh + either LB or Sc/F if you want to perform well against competant players. Also, not a lot of build variety (traits/ammy/sigil/runes) for power-based DH here.

• Symbolic DH: Tried it. Pretty boring bunkery build and imo scrapper can do the job better while retaining more mobility.

• Burn guard: pretty fun and also entertaining to see the enxperienced go down to the burn burst. When played well, this build has sustain comparable to power-DH which is awesome! May work well for casual playing/soloq but not top-tier material by any stretch of the imagination.

Thoughts going forward: I think the few builds that do work for DH are in a fairly good spot and fill their intended roles pretty well.

Nerfs: I would like to see very minor nerfs – sustain nerfs, particularly to the healing trap, Purification. Damage and utility nerfs are absolutely not needed. That being said, I’m going to be very disappointed if guardian’s sustain receives a nerf, but other huge offenders don’t receive anaologous nerfs (adrenal health for warr, Channeled Vigor for daredevil, CA form heals for druid are all over the top too).

Buffs: Oh, plenty to do here. I think the most fun, easy-to-implement and important buffs going forward should be to guardian weapon-skills. Many on here have made these arguments before, but some of our weapon-skills just don’t cut it in today’s meta. These buffs would be good for build diversity and healthy for the pvp scene imo. From most important to least:

• Greatsword: Cool downs are too high, not enough utility or sustain, damaging/key skills are too hard to land and don’t offer very much reward. Literally every skill on it could stand to receive some minor buffs to bring it up to the times: Reduce all CDs by a bit, let GS 2 retain full mobility while casting, let GS 4 be mobile, increase projectile speed of GS 5 and reduce cast time of the pull.

• Staff: The buff to the warding line was nice but we need some buffs/changes to the other skills too, particularly staff 2 and staff 4. They are both very mediocre skills that may shine only situationally.

• Torch: Torch 5. Pls.

• Mace: Auto attack chain is quite poor, cast time is far too long on mace 2.

• Hammer: Could use a few buffs. Hammer 5 should be a mobile skill (reduced movement speed while casting, perhaps?). Hammer auto attack chain is still too slow (decrease cast times, decrease damage seems to be the best tradeoff imo), hammer 4 has too long of a cast time to only affects one target (please change one of these two parameters).

• Scepter: Please add the first tick when laying the symbol down initially. This is more of a fix than a buff.

• Sword: Great mainhand weapon. Sword 3 is still lacking. Considering its cooldown (which is fair) and damage (which is mediocre), I think it could stand to be a mobile skill, perhaps reduced movement speed while casting (would really help both power and burn guards, wouldn’t upset balance too much).

• Focus: Reduce the CDs by a bit (to 15 and 30 respectively). This always has been and still is an outstanding offhand though!

• Shield: Honestly, it’s in a great spot. Only thing I would change is what the trait does (because it’s redundant).

Pretty good! You have a calm and analytical playstyle and don’t just faceroll/blow utilities like some DH I see.

Couple tips that may help you:

- You did fine against em here, but I recommend starting your fights against thieves on sw/sh rather than LB. Thieves lead in with a burst, and the 300 extra toughness on sw/sh (assuming it’s also traited) will cut back on that burst quite a bit. Once you take out a decent chunk of their hp, you still have JI, f1 and LB to chase them down and prevent resets.

- Against revs, you can turn their sword 3 into a liability. Lay ToF, count their five hits for sword 3, switch to sw/sh and shield 5 em thru the trap right after the 5th hit (can possibly follow up with f1 too). They have a few frames of vulnerability at the end allowing you to really sneak in a powerful burst!

Edit: the censor on these forums is a piece of juvenile cat.

Although my fights vs. warriors have primarily been as power-DH, I think the following advice will still help you:

• Don’t waste your dodges. Warriors beat guardians by wasting their dodges then throwing on resistance + might signet and bursting them down. Dodges are your only real defence against warriors who are running might signet + berserker stance.

• Start the battle off with blinds and blocks. It is unlikely they will immediately start off with berserker stance/might signet. This is a good time to sneak in those defensive measures that you won’t be able to use later on once they are ready to burst you.

• Always save at least 1 stun-breaker. If a warrior is in melee range of you and f3 and JI/CoP are all on cooldown you’re probably screwed (use RF if you find yourself in this situation). One headbutt and you’ll quite literally go from 100-0 hp fast. Even a shield bash burst combo will drop you a good 30-50% hp.

• Watch for might signet. As soon as you see that fist symbol of the signet appear above their heads, dodge (if they’re in melee range) and create some distance with a gap-opener. Don’t try and fist-fight a warrior who has both might signet and berserker stance up.

• Try to keep a distance of about 300-600 between you and the warrior. Warriors know that vs. guards, if they don’t keep their distance after all stances are on cd, they’ll go down fast too. At this point, they like to retreat out of your effective attack range and wait on some CDs. Don’t let them do that.

• Try your best to predict their f1 bursts. This comes with experience. If you can deny them the f1 bursts even every other time, you should be able to wear them down over time.

• Save your CCs: maybe throw a simple CC out earlier on if you have one to get rid of their passive balanced stance proc. Save your CCs until after they have blown berserk mode/endure pain. This may have to wait until much later into the battle (maybe 30-40s).

So what does everyone think is a legitimate nerf/buff/fix for this build?

In my opninion, the best fix would be to remove the evade from D/D skill 3, up the condi application on it by quite a bit (so that it turns into more of a condi-burst if you land it multiple times), possibly increase initiative cost and heavily decrease the after-cast of the skill. This would give D/D a legitimate condi bomb and actually allow it to 1v1 (b/c lets be real, if you don’t play with high ping and know when to land your bursts, you eat this build for breakfast, lunch and dinner) but give it plenty of counterplay since it wouldn’t be able chain high amounts of evade frames together.

Vault on staff could stand to have the same applied to it as well.

Spartacus.3192:

Hi I like using this sigil on my warrior mace and am considering using this on my dragonhunter Longbow. Does anyone know if it procs on Hunters Ward (LB 5) and also LB 3 (when heavy light is traited?)

It definitely procs on longbow 3. Not sure about longbow 5, but if you successfully land it AND someone tries to walk through the ward while performing some sort of animation (such that “interrupted” pops up) then it should proc.

Huskyboy.1053:

Arcaedus.7290:

Purification is definitely the best place for DH to currently be nerfed imo. Anet already made their stance on DH’s damage (it’s fine) and has just nerfed our utility (removing CC) so the only other fair way to nerf us would be sustain. The question is by how much?

Currently with 0 healing power, you get an instantaneous 10k health if you lay the trap with someone standing on top of you. You’re proposing dropping this number down to 8.5k with more up-front health which is more than fair but I think the regen should remain since every other trap grants a boon. Perhaps decrease the regen time down to 8s? This would be fair; overall, the healing of this skill (at 0 heal power) would go from 11.3k total to 9.5k total with more burst-sustain and less long-term sustain which is exactly what DH needs right now.

The pulsing blind is very interesting but I highly doubt that they would implement this; likely purification will just be nerfed with no other compensation. Honestly, this functionality belongs on Light’s Judgement trap if anything; I mean, look at that animation! The trap is pretty undertuned as is but that’s for another discussion!

I’m pretty sure I did my math right. It’s exactly 9321 healing total, including the regen, 8k without the regen. I’m proposing removing the regen, and making the sum total healing 6.5k. 3.25k on trap lay, 3.25k on trap trigger. I see your point about keeping the boon to maintain consistency, that’s kind of a technical point. It basically just makes you more vulnerable to boon steal/corrupt, but if that’s your intention then I can see why it makes sense. Really I just think the overall healing should be more in line with other healing skills, but that Purification needs a small boost as a defensive trap.

You can pretty much assume that smiter’s boon + monk’s focus are a given (+2k hp) since, in pvp scenarios, the cases in which these traits are taken (literally any DH who is trying to be competetive) for a DH grossly outnumber the cases in which they are not (people trying out new builds/theorycrafting). This puts the current healing values at 11281 healing total, or 9,981 without regen.

Numbers aside, I like the values you’re trying to bring the heal down to. Still don’t agree with the regen; boon corrupt isn’t enough of an issue at the moment to justify removal of boons from skills as a balancing strategy.

I think it would be interesting to have certain siege equipment have “mobility skills” attached such as giving flame rams a short burst of mobility similar to engi’s slick shoes or giving arrowcarts the ability to be wheeled 300 units in any direction on a long cd to avoid an aoe, or to move too a better position. Skills like this would have fairly long cooldowns so while you technically COULD move the siege over long distances, it wouldn’t be very viable. Siege shouldn’t be moveable cross-map, this is the entire point of siege golems.

Purification is definitely the best place for DH to currently be nerfed imo. Anet already made their stance on DH’s damage (it’s fine) and has just nerfed our utility (removing CC) so the only other fair way to nerf us would be sustain. The question is by how much?

Currently with 0 healing power, you get an instantaneous 10k health if you lay the trap with someone standing on top of you. You’re proposing dropping this number down to 8.5k with more up-front health which is more than fair but I think the regen should remain since every other trap grants a boon. Perhaps decrease the regen time down to 8s? This would be fair; overall, the healing of this skill (at 0 heal power) would go from 11.3k total to 9.5k total with more burst-sustain and less long-term sustain which is exactly what DH needs right now.

The pulsing blind is very interesting but I highly doubt that they would implement this; likely purification will just be nerfed with no other compensation. Honestly, this functionality belongs on Light’s Judgement trap if anything; I mean, look at that animation! The trap is pretty undertuned as is but that’s for another discussion!

@Obtena: Correct me if I’m wrong but your viewpoint is that greatsword does not need the buffs/changes requested by OP because its balancing depends on Anet’s conceptual view of the weapon as well as the fact that, in their opinion, it may be fine since it doesn’t have to be ideal in all game modes.

Your main points here are true; GS does fit the concept (it is a viable melee-burst weapon in all three game modes) and it may not be ideal in all game modes but is in some (it’s great for general pve, dungeons, some fractals and cleaving downs in pvp/wvw). Despite your arguments I think that GS deserves a second-look in terms of balancing for the following reasons:

• In terms of end-game, we have more viable options across ALL scenarios in two out of three of the game modes (pvp and fractals/raids in pve). I don’t think this would be the case were the greatsword truly filling its conceptual role as a melee-burst weapon. Conceptually, one may want to take a more defensive option in some scenarios, or the more offensive option (GS) in others for these game modes but as it turns out, the alternative(s) is (are) more effective regardless of the situation. Even in wvw, where GS largely remains part of the front-line meta for guards, I don’t see it as being that effective. Sword/shield out-classes GS in just about every situation save for cleaving downs.

• Other weapons have received buffs/changes similar to the ones that have been asked for here. By similar, I mean the requested buffs are intended to bring the weapon “up to speed” in terms of the current post HoT meta while still maintaining that weapon’s conceptual role.

• Skills definitely deserve buffs (or at least heavy consideration) with regard to balance. I don’t agree with you that the buffs are made just to fill the weapon’s concept, with the resulting prowess of the weapon being a side-effect. Anet deliberates on changes like these for a long time. If they could better fill in the concept of a weapon without affecting the balance, they would do so much more often. The way I see it, weapon changes such as adding symbols to sword/scepter are done primarily from a balance standpoint rather than a conceptual one.

I encourage you to consider the following viewpoint: People making or adding to threads like these are doing so because they think that the basic concept of GS and the viability of other options out there may be maintained without upsetting balance for other classes/guardian builds. These people have played GS on guardian for a considerable amount of time and have a very good feel of what its concept is and how effective it is in at least one game mode. They know very well that it is underperforming in two, probably three of the game modes for its intended role and the buffs they are requesting are in-line with the weapon’s concept. Think of threads like these as theory-crafting: What could we accomplish with GS if certain changes were made?

This is very semantic and not very pragmatic but nonetheless is worthwhile. Just look at the balance patch that brought us symbols on sword/scepter. It was an excellent balance-patch and many of the changes there were the verbatim suggestions made here on the forums.

Tongku.5326:

GS is somewhat problematic and not a good choice outside of small or 1v1 encounters.

It has utility if you use GS 2 on top of GS 4 for cleansing, but then you have to stand in the symbol for the duration which in turn gets you killed, thus negating that utility entirely.

GS 2 for DPS is no good because on multiple targets you end up taking too much damage from retal to the point where on offensive builds you’ll end up doing more total damage to yourself then actually dishing out.

GS 5 misses to often for a wide plethora of reasons, target moves out of LOS or buggy terrain, evades, dodges, blocks, stab, etc. Its just no longer usable as it was in the past.

Only thing thats left decent on GS is GS 3, but that is not enough to keep it equipped as we have better choices that do much more and no need to waste a weapon slot.

So overall, it needs to be looked at and buffed a bit as it has been significantly indirectly nerfed via HoT powercreep of everything else.

This exactly. It’s been said before; GS hasn’t kept up with the times very well in terms of pvp. The cooldowns are too large and each of the individual skills aren’t very viable for their intended purposes in comparison to similar weapons on other classes or even similar weaponsets on guardian.

Plenty of great buffs have been suggested that I think would bring the fun back to GS without overtuning it. Following are some of my favorite suggestions I and others have made:

GS 2: remove the movement speed reduction during cast.

GS 4: Change animation and/or let the skill be usable while moving. Also increase the duration of retal given to match that of symbol of swiftness/symbol of energy.

GS 5: Decrease the cast time of the throw, increase the speed of the projectiles and lower the cast time of the pull down to 1/4 s (same as f1).

GS 2 through 5: Reduce cooldowns of these skills to 7, 12, 15 and 25 respectively.

Darknicrofia.2604:

mrauls.6519:

I’m back to using scepter/FOCUS and sword/SHIELD. I had the offhand weapons reversed for a great duration this season, but I like s/f and s/sh more. Shield allows you to tank a lot more in melee range and focus really helps you kite with scepter… It’s just my preference

scepter / shield is way too powerful of a decapping combo to not pair together imo.

shield 5 and scepter 3 on a mender’s symbolic build = you’ll decap anyone 1v1 100%.

Maybe, but Sc/Sh also stacks too many of your blinds/blocks on Sw/F leaving only one block for Sc/Sh.

Just make needle trap deal some physical damage upon activation, problem solved? Maybe I missed it, but why is this simple fix not the solution?

The only counter-argument I could think of is that this would completely ruin trapper runes for thief – and no, it wouldn’t really. You could still utilize all the other traps to maximum potential, you just wouldn’t be able to ghost it up 100% of the time if you wanted to deal a large amount of condition damage.

Also, even if it did ruin trapper runes for thief….
a. Great and good riddance.
b. It would make the game a hell of a lot better for about 99.5% of other players
c. Once again, no it wouldn’t because you could still utilize the other traps for stealth

Hello nothelseth!

I main and primarily play guardian/DH and currently am in low tier platinum though probably belong in high tier gold. While I am very confident in my mechanical skills, I think I lack when it comes to actually “playing” the game mode. My question is: Can you offer some general advice on rotations (for power-based guard/DH) and how they might differ for specific maps? Should I focus on side points, bunkering one specific point, avoid certain classes, try to isolate certain classes 1v1, +1 or not +1 certain scenarios?

Thanks in advance for your insight!

I think the easiest fix is to literally just ever so slightly increase the height of the inner wall. It doesn’t need much of an increase, maybe half of a character’s height or less. The rest of inner could remain same and just have small ramps leading up to this raised corner-wall.

Adding an invisible wall might mess up a defender standing on the inner wall or perhaps mess up projectiles fired from people between outer and inner.

Shifting the distance between outer and inner may require a more extensive redesign such as moving the entire cliff that alpine garri rests on or pushing the outer wall further into the mountain.

Some feedback for that build and assessment of ToF (pvp perspective):

• ToF: I understand why you dislike ToF. Any time I find myself having to switch builds due to the opposition I feel quite constrained by having to keep ToF on the bar and your build works around that problem nicely. Plus it’s nice being able to have a more active and aggressive playstyle rather than baiting someone into the trap or waiting for cooldowns to align so you can pull off a cheesy combo.

That being said, I think ToF is an excellent skill and mastering it gives you an extremely useful tool across most situations:
-It’s one of the most effective anti-thief tools we have.
-In conjunction with shield it provides excellent protection up-time (not to be underestimated).
-ToF makes shield worthwhile and makes a decent opponent more wary of you using a shield. ToF essentially turns shield into an offensive weapon since shield 5 is impossible to react to reflexively.
-It is a HUGE damage spike if you do land the combo.
-You don’t even have to use it for the wombo combo; often times ToF is useful purely as a defensive tool (positioning advantage + protection boon). ex: I often times use ToF for the protection to soak up hits from warriors who just popped might signet (since I can’t blind them or block them at this point).
-While it can no longer interrupt, the new Piercing Light (trap trait) may actually be a hidden blessing – your traps no longer trigger on-CC traits on your opponents and slow can mess up rotations/healing pretty well.

• Your build: Gwaihir is right; weapon skills alone won’t be enough to down certain opponents, the same opponents you would be able to down if you can semi-regularly land even a single pull/push across ToF every time you use it. Soaring devestation is definitely a decent alternative to pick up since you’re dropping ToF but it really just doesn’t cut it in as many situations. It definitely is a fun utility trait though so here are some suggestions that may help you with that build:

-Try focus instead of shield. Main reason: Focus 5 rather than f3. I don’t think using f3 just to land f2 is justified. You’re throwing away two utilities for an effect that has a very high chance of not being effective (allies move out of range, opponents dodge or immediately cleanse and move away from your follow-up burst). Also, scepter/shield isn’t the greatest 1h/offhand combo; you only have a single block on 16-20s cd for sustain.

-Consider trying sword instead of scepter. Having two ranged weapons makes you somewhat vulnerable. You won’t be able to whittle down those with a lot of reflects or deflects and opponents who apply a lot of pressure in melee range (revenant, thief, war) will force you to spend more time kiting and not dishing out damage. Also, this weapon-combo will not allow you to chase down opponents as well or rotate points in pvp since you will lack mobility. Also cmonnnnnnn, a longbow and a scepter? That’s not guardian-like at ALL! :p

-Soaring devestation actually comboes very well with ToF: f2 —> ToF —> LB 3 —> f1 pull. This is a great combo because if the initial hit is dodged there is a good chance your combo hasn’t gone to hell yet. But if the initial hit lands, there’s a good chance that the meat of the combo will be executed unless your opponent has amazing reflexes or knows the combo well/you’re predictable.

Zintrothen.1056:

DH > all

I had to.

But really…

DH > Mesmer, Daredevil, ?
Berserker > Chrono, Tempest, Reaper, DH
Druid > DH, ?
Daredevil > Tempest, Herald, Druid,
Reaper > Herald, Scrapper, Tempest, Druid
Herald > ?
Tempest > DH (used to be other way around when traps dazed with the trait),
Chrono > Tempest, Druid, Herald
Scrapper > Tempest, Druid, DH

This list is based on experience, logic and plain facts. It’s also based only on meta builds. It’s also incomplete because professions, such as Rev, I’m just unsure about.

At high levels of play, in 1v1 (or small-scale fights), DH has some soft-counters or close calls:

-Staff/Acro Daredevil (it takes a while but DH really doesn’t have the utility to put one of these down whereas DD can interrupt DH heals regularly).

-Power Rev: Maybe not now after those nonsense nerfs… but as of last patch (and currently still in WvW) a power-based rev can take out a DH.

-Power berserker with Might Signet: Unless the DH notices and respects that signet, a good berserker will burst down the average and even above average DH. Close match if both are very skilled and knowledgable.

-Condition Chronomancer: Not sure of the exact build but I imagine it’s something similar to what Helseth runs (change out portal for Decoy or Mirror Images). This is more applicable to duels rather than playing as part of an organized team though.

-Shout-trooper druid: Sort of a drawn out fight but a DH simply does not have the CC to deal with these and their burst cannot overcome druid’s kiting + stealth + healing whereas druid’s pet skills and staff auto will inevitably wear down DH’s sustain.

coro.3176:

Okay, so what is the counterplay for classes without stability then?

The one class without access to stability can very easily break the tether on that spear through mobility alone. If you don’t accept that as the proper counterplay, then your options are:

1. Git gud enough to stun-break mid-pull and prevent yourself from getting pulled into traps (difficult and takes some practice but is definitely possible and repeatable once you get the hang of it)

2. Get pulled into traps, immediately stunbreak, dodge out and follow up with mobility skills or stealth (still works, but you will eat a good 4-5k crit in the worst case scenario).

3. Whine about it on forums.

nicknamenick.2437:

Obtena.7952:

Crinn.7864:

Obtena.7952:

Perhaps people need to step back and think a little about their own assumptions for why Anet put a cast time on Spear because the base virtue is insta … it’s certainly not a mistake they added a cast time and there are methods to counterplay it.

Anet put a cast time on DH virtues so that they can’t be used while stunned and can’t be activated while casting something else. Core virtues are instant because their active effect is so weak that it’s a non-issue.

1/4th second cast is typically put on abilities that aren’t meant to dodgable but at the same time aren’t supposed to be usable while stunned.

Yup .. so for everyone that doesn’t ‘get it’, there is a reason that 1/4 is on there and there is also a reason this pull skill is particularly hard to dodge. I’m still waiting for someone to come up with a reason Spear should work different than the reasons it current works.

So your saying its should be 100% hit? with no counter play? because its a virtue?
but lets say it should be like this, why is it that Anet did allot of rework in the past making stuff more counterable?

I still prefer to mention “Pin down”

This skill used to be 1/4 sec and almost no animation.
Now its 3/4 sec with a good animation.
And everyone is OK with it because there is counterplay/reaction time now.

Dont you want every skill to have a proper counterplay? issnt that what we want in PVP?

Because the more i read this topic the more i think ppl just want passive stuff with no counterplay just to smash some buttons and hope they win just because there meta build is better, with no skill involved.

Just as not every class plays the same, not every skill in the game needs to have the same kind of counterplay. As has been mentioned before in this thread, spear of justice does have counterplay and that counterplay just happens to not be dodging. Dodging is not an absolute defence in this game (ex. Wards/Static Field) and is not the be-all-end-all of defence and damage/CC negation.

Yannir.4132:

Arcaedus.7290:

I think any reflect does this. I’m not sure if it’s intended but it is definitely bad design.

So if both have a reflect up they should bounce between 2 players until 1 stops reflecting?

Not sure, but zealot’s defence is not a reflect and I am fairly certain that projectiles reflected once can still be blocked/destroyed so there is no reason that your projectile blocker can’t block its own projectiles.

I think any reflect does this. I’m not sure if it’s intended but it is definitely bad design.

Cynz.9437:

Arcaedus.7290:

Zelulose.8695:

Also pulls should be able to be evaded as otherwise they allow the snaring player to set up a spike and pull a player into it when he chooses ignoring most defenses such as block and evade which are canceled.

Yep, that’s the point. And pull doesn’t ignore stability or a well-placed stun-break (aka, the counterplay). Think for a moment about what you’re arguing: What is essentially a single-target pull on a 40s cd will become completely useless just because someone without adequate skill playing one class (thief) can’t counterplay well enough.

Stun break can’t be used while being pulled because for the game you are in the air thus not allowed to use spells. Happens 90% of the time due to uneven terrain. Same goes for spells that give stability, you would need to activate stab before the pull.

Bugs in the code are not a reason to nerf or buff a skill. If you are pulled by any pull skill on relatively flat ground, you can stunbreak it. I’ve seen thieves do this many times. In fact, one thief I was chasing in wvw did this 3 times over the course of two minutes. Literally every time I pulled, he didn’t even get pulled into my symbol/trap range since he’d have a stunbreak or shadowstep ready.

mrauls.6519:

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

deflecting shot goes through zealots defense, AND gets bonus damage typically due to stopping the projectils that zealots defense does.

Thanks mane. Do you happen to know why it seems like lb #3 sometimes just goes through players? Like, it looks like it hit them, but it didn’t…

I’ve been noticing this since about 2 patches ago… it’s a bug I’m sure but don’t know exactly what it is or why it’s happening. I’ve had a couple instances where I’d be dueling someone, my deflecting shot would blatantly pass through the other player and absolutely nothing popped up (no damage, knockback, blind “evaded,” or “immune”) and guildmates/party members would confirm that they were seeing the same thing as I was. I have noticed that this bug seems to be pretty common for skills that pass along the ground though (like chronomancer’s tides of time).

Assuming a skilled DH can always land the initial spear against you, you have three or four main ways of counterplaying this skill:

1. Stability. If you’re a warrior, engi, guard, necro or ele and are watching for the skill, this will be a fairly easy way to stop the pull.

2. defensive utility after being pulled – probably the most common. Mes has distortion, druid has adequate stunbreaks + celestial avatar, revenant has riposting shadows, guardian has f3, engi has stunbreaks and elixir S.

3. Break the tether: Difficult to do if the DH is planning on pulling you right after tethering. This is really only a viable option for thief/mesmer.

4. Stun-break the pull: The only real option available to thieves. This takes a lot of skill to do but is very repeatable. In wvw, it is impossible for me to prevent a thief from escaping if they are knowledgeable.

I have noticed that certain skills labeled with “destroys projectiles,” or “blocks projectiles,” still have the property to stop unblockable projectiles like mirror blade or deflecting shot.

Two patches ago, reaper’s 2 skill (death’s charge) could destroy deflecting shot but that was fixed. Currently (at least about 2-3 weeks ago, haven’t tested since then), thief’s utility skill smokescreen can destroy/block both deflecting shot and spear of justice.

Zelulose.8695:

Also pulls should be able to be evaded as otherwise they allow the snaring player to set up a spike and pull a player into it when he chooses ignoring most defenses such as block and evade which are canceled.

Yep, that’s the point. And pull doesn’t ignore stability or a well-placed stun-break (aka, the counterplay). Think for a moment about what you’re arguing: What is essentially a single-target pull on a 40s cd will become completely useless just because someone without adequate skill playing one class (thief) can’t counterplay well enough.

The only valid argument in this thread regarding spear of justice being overpowered is the fact that it comes out too quickly to react to reflexively. The counterplay rests in knowing the skill and reacting accordingly once tethered.

I have had every single class including thief counterplay it effectively. For example on thief: if you get hit by the chain, start dodging away from the DH to try to break the chain with distance. This forces the DH to use their pull early. Watch the DH closely since the pull has an animation too. As soon as you see that left hand do a pull/stroke animation, you hit bandit’s defence, or shadowstep. I’ve had thieves do this to me – tried pulling them at about 600 to 700 units away and they were able to stunbreak (stops the pull) before even getting pulled into my trap radius. I am completely incapable of stopping a knowledgeable thief from escaping me in wvw due to this. DH f1 is very strong but it does have counterplay.

A fair fix for the spear of justice would involve making the animation for the spear throw more visible (have a bright golden spear visible in hand as the player presses f1, not just as it flies through the air). It doesn’t need any of these illogical or “QQ, I need to l2p” nerfs that are being asked for.

Care to elaborate on your methods? How exactly did you reach this number? In what way are they “overperforming”? (damage, cc, sustain, boon uptime, everything?)

I don’t think ranger or druid themselves have too much damage; but rather smokescale (which every ranger runs) has far too much damage attached to it for a “tank” pet.

TheSwede.9512:

I can see what he’s shooting for with this. Using Force of Will together with Wurm Runes to increase Vitality and Ferocity at the same time, synergizing it with Marauder Amulet.
Theoretically, 2050 Power, 54% (74% with Fury) crit chance, 21k HP and 203% Crit Damage is all good. You’ll be able to take a few hits and Spike for some nasty damage if you hit home with Whirling Wrath.

In a bulletin format, allow me to compare this build to other similar ones:

• You lack access to Chill, Cripple or Immobilize to slow down enemies and prevent them from disengaging or kiting you. Power Rev does not but can spam Chill with Precision Strike, which is part of the reason why they don’t need a ranged weapon on their kit.
• You lack reliable in-combat Mobility, which is the determining factor when it comes to dictating who commands the flow of a fight. Power Rev will catch up to you anywhere as long as they’re in Shiro and you’re not a Thief, a Mesmer with a portal or invisible.
• Unlike Warrior, you lack the CC means to Negate your opponent’s mobility. You have a single Knockback on your Shield… which isn’t helping at all because you’d be knocking them out of your effective range anyways. Binding Blade might seem useful, but it’s a low-range, slow-moving projectile followed by a well-telegraphed one-time pull, easily dodged.
• At the same time, you have low access to Stability (Which also costs you your Virtue of Courage) and only 1 Panic Button in your Elite Skill. Your main source of sustain comes in the form of self-healing and Aegis, which matters absolute jack to Warrior or Revenant who will blaze right through you with Unblockable attacks and CC you to death.
• You’re very vulnerable to Kiting and Poison, so fighting Reapers won’t be easy unless you get the drop on them while they’re asleep at the keyboard. Your few and precious Condi Removals will be going to cleansing Poison and Chill, only to be met with more Poison, Chill and a ton of Bleeding on top of that. You’ll have a real hard time catching even a Reaper in a straight-up fight, which is actually quite a feat in and of itself, considering Reapers are just marginally more mobile than the Arctic iceflow.

Now, there are a few modifications you could do to help the build out, primarily making sure to have some CC added in along with a ranged weapon. If you don’t have HoT and access to DH, that means you’re kinda stuck with Scepter which doesn’t have awful synergy (Symbol of Punishment -> Chains of Light -> Judge’s Intervention -> Whirling Wrath) but it’s still not LB. Rune of Surging will probably serve you better than Rune of the Wurm, since you’ll get kitten Shocking Aura with every other Renewed Focus.

Excellent assessment. I’ve tried it so many times before; double melee weapon sets on guardian just doesn’t work very well; even when running DH (which has great mobility, access to soft CCs and an excellent pull).

These points aside, in pvp at least, greatsword and mace don’t work very well either. Greatsword has insufficient sustain, too high of cooldowns and too low of damage output if you don’t land the majority of GS 2. Mace has mace 3 which is great and doesn’t have a whole lot of counterplay, but it’s on a 15s cd. Mace auto chain is nearly useless in pvp and mace 2 has too long of a cast time and an almost useless boon attached to it.