Guild Wars 2

WhiteRose.6934:

Yes, this is a post about how obscenely strong Traps are in spvp.
No, I’m not asking for a nerf.

I’m asking you Guardian mains to help me in what I do when faced with one. Or multiple, as seems to be the case lately.

I play a shatter mesmer (glass cannon, I’m pretty old school) and I can honestly say no class in the game since I’ve returned has given me issues like DH has.

Now I had been gone for a good portion of a year, so when I first got back into spvp I chalked it up to not understanding the new classes. But I have one of every class leveled and I’ve worked with them all in spvp again to figure out how they all play.

And DH is one I still cannot beat. And I don’t feel like I learn anything from playing it myself because (for lack of better term) I just spam the traps and win points.

So help me out. Too many matches have ended in a loss that clearly was carried by one dude on a Dragon Hunter, and I am willing to learn what to do to stop him. And save for getting salty in map chat and logging out after a match (which I am guilty of because of this class) I don’t know what to do.

Thank you kindly, and I look forward to learning something new.

PS: I am asking strictly about the full trapper set up. The ‘meditrapper’ variant isn’t as obnoxious and typically actually puts themselves at risk which gives chances for counter-play.

I would first suggest making a guardian/DH, then practicing comboes using traited longbow (Heavy Light), f1 pull, shield 5 and relevant traps. It’s the combinations of CCs + pull + traps that is probably getting you and if you get the hang of how those traps work, you’ll be better equipped to deal with them.

If you can strike the DH first and strike fast, you have a much better chance of exhausting their defensive cds before they exhaust yours. At that point, the fight is yours.

Now for actually fighting DH, I recommend the following: As a power mesmer, you have 1 stunbreak, a teleport, a block and an invuln in terms of solid defensive maneuvers. It’s best to match the appropriate defence to their offence.

• If you get pulled into a trap bomb: use your invuln.
• If you see an incoming trueshot, block with shield 4
• DH teleports to you and lays down traps: stunbreak/stealth, dodge out and move away until ToF trap subsides (about 5 seconds). You don’t wanna get pulled through this.
• DH lays down heal trap following a shatter: Sit at distance and use your auto + GS 3 + GS 5. Deny them that heal if they’re at very low health.
• DH has hit you with some nice ranged bursts, has CCed you and is coming in for melee now: Wait for them to use JI, then counter by using blink. GS5 them if they use another mobility skill.
• DH at low hp and is probably about to f2 leap away: interrupt them with your f3, follow up with a burst.
• DH is using Dragon’s Maw elite trap: Use your invuln and/or blink to escape it. Watch for their f3, then burst them HARD. No RF means they’re squishy as hell as soon as they use their block.

Do NOT: teleport through their ToF trap when caught inside, waste your invuln to just negate a trueshot (unless you’re at really low hp), sit around 1200 range or less from them if their ToF ring is up (they WILL pull you in), go on the offensive when their f3 shield is up; it’s best to use you defensive skills + blocks to negate the incoming burst.

If you’d like practice, I’d be happy to duel you in game! Best of luck fighting against DH!

If we’re talking solely about the aspect of class balance in roaming; then absolutely not. In fact, class balance in roaming is probably quite literally at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of class balancing priority. Here is a pleasant but arbitrary hierarchy that seems to hold true for most of the class balancing that is done in this game:

sPvP viability in Conquest> sPvP 5v5 thru 1v1 interactions > PvE Raids = PvE Fractals > PvE general and dungeons > WvW Zerg v Zerg > Roaming small group > Roaming 1v1.

^with the last two there being virtually untouched over-time

It does seem they do some balancing targeted towards roaming (i.e. the nerf to perplexity rune, nerfing DH trueshot….. off the top of my head) but these changes are far and few between.

Fact is, while roamers and small groups are apparently seen as important by the ANet, their interactions when fighting each other generally are not. If you want balancing to come to roaming, I’d say your best bet is to campaign for balancing in spvp since a lot of roaming class balance seems to be tied to spvp class balance.

Kuya.6495:

I would especially love feedback from esl players who still post around here.

What i’ve gathered is that:

1. it doesn’t have enough mobility

2. as a function of #1, it’s defensive cooldowns can be exhausted quickly without an option to disengage effectively, such as stealth or superspeed.

3. it could possibly be best at bunking but the meta isn’t set for bunking points right now, leaving it no other role to fill that isn’t already filled by something better (far point: mes, rezzer: engi, rng, healer: ele, dps: rev, necro, +1 roamer: rev, point bruiser: rng)

And depending on why you think dh isn’t competitive at higher skill levels of pvp, what would you change to make it more competitive?

I’d like to know too, because….

1. Mobility is an issue but it’s not the least mobile class out there (it’s actually pretty close to the middle of the totem pole).

2. This is true in a team setting. If 3 people focus a DH, s/he WILL go down in about 20 seconds. In a 1v1 or 2v2 though, the DH can last a very long time, mostly because of how OP purification is, meanwhile dishing out decent burst damage and cc.

3. It’s one of the best in terms of raw 1v1 potential. True, it is soft-countered by certain builds like shout-trooper druids, but in a 2v2 and up, a DH has a slight advantage (more aoe cc and boons) imo.

While it’s arguably supersceded by at least one build in every important aspect, I’d say DH currently has a good distribution of strengths that should make it playable at the esl level by any player who is passionate enough and likes playing guard.

I’m guessing the bad spot that it has been in historically combined with the fact that it likely won’t maintain its current level of power after the next patch is why esl players don’t touch it as much.

Don’t put too much weight on those hyped up claims. As many before me here have said, if all 3 players are of roughly equal skill, then the 2 should win 100% of the time. With more experience and time you’ll find this to be true.

The only exceptions I can think of would be:

• Very large difference in skill between the two and the one
• Builds match up very very poorly for the 2/very very fortuitiously for the one. For example: 1 Condi mes vs. a power rev and d/p thief
• The one starts with an immense advantage (as illustrated by Zero’s post, 5th post down from top).

Kuya.6495:

2. Nope. Fragments of Faith is a stun breaker. Making a stun breaker have a cast time is dumb.

I would argue that of Fragments of Faith worked like either Well of Power or Well of Precognition (stunbreaker + instant 1s stability + small cast time) then it wouldn’t be so bad. This would be a straight up nerf to an already underutilized skill though and I hope they would compensate elsewhere (cd reduction maybe?).

emkelly.2371:

1. both. you should be able to dodge both.

2. That’s another problem. a trap should not be a stun breaker.

1. You CAN dodge both. You just can’t teleport through the ring without activating it/taking damage from blades.

2. I disagree. Thematically, guardian “traps” aren’t a physically prepared entity but rather a magical force that materializes in the familiar form of a physical trap. Since there’s magic involved and magic is super arbitray (in like every fantasy IP ever), I don’t see why it couldn’t do something like unshackle one’s body from physical impairments.

Dawdler.8521:

The only thing I havent decided on is whether sw/f or sw/sh is the proper way to go for those scenarios.

I’ve been turning this over in my mind a lot as well. It really depends on the scenario and what you need to do. You have to weigh aoe protection/single block and a very effective aoe cc vs. slight damage increase, a blind and a versatile block/burst attack.

In general, shield tends to perform much better when small-group roaming whereas focus tends to do better vs. opponents with high stab uptime and slower attacks (like warriors).

Double 1h-guardian may have pretty good dueling/1v1 game but I really don’t think its ideal for roaming solo or group since you lack aoe and really lack burst if you miss that ToF combo. The ToF burst that build has can be emulated by GS & Sc/Sh, which is a far burstier, aoe capable and more active weapon combo, and even superseded by LB & Sw/Sh (as you gain an additional knocback with LB 3).

I’d say double 1h is pretty fun and effective, plus it has a bit better sustain than either of the weapon comboes I just mentioned, so to each, one’s own I suppose!

azyume.6321:

In case people don’t know: Only Test of Faith and Fragments of Faith don’t have a cast time. All the others traps have a ½ activation time.

Fragments of Faith being a stun break doesn’t make sense to have a cast, while Test of Faith is actually the only insta cast trap.

One could argue a cast time for Test of Faith won’t make much difference since when you activate it, you are inside the trap already so won’t receive any extra damage from crossing the blades, but, at least for me, it doesn’t matter if this trap gets an activation time or not.

Anet could reduce the radius of the traps, however, I think in the case of the Test of Faith is going to be a buff instead of a nerf since it will reduce the size of the “safe zone” inside the trap. It will be easier to push, pull and accidentally cross over the swords.

These are good points. It helps for people to really know how guardian/DH works before asking for nerfs and this comment illustrates that nicely. That being said, I’ll weigh in:

In a pvp setting, Guardian/DH at the moment has too good of aoe damage, burst and cc capabilities without actually giving up that much in terms of sustain/utility. It’s a very fun class to play and I think reverting any of the mechanical changes they made last patch (like the stability change on f3, symbols on 1h weapons, 2 condis cleared on f2) would be poor moves. Nerfing damage output would make non-berserker/marauder builds near useless (and also make berserker/marauder builds incapable of killing things like druid or scrapper) and nerfing cc access is something that needs to be done across the board.

Instead, something that could make guardians less problematic and actually killable would be small to moderate sustain nerfs. The biggest offender by far is Purification. At a half-second cast time with a very subtle animation and over 10k health given to the guardian, this gives DH monstrous sustain even with very little other sustain that would be traited for/selected as utility. A large nerf to the initial healing of this trap and/or a small nerf to the main healing portion of the trap would go a long ways in nerfing-without-gutting. Alternatively, the cooldown could be increased.

No other facets of guardian/DH really strike me as OP. Players often complain about high block uptime. A 1s nerf to the blocktime of our f3 would be a fair nerf, but any more would heavily decrease its value in even being activated. A cast time added to ToF could also be implemented as well. All traps on other classes have 1/2s cast times and this one should too. This is actually a lot less consequential of a nerf than many think though.

Kuya.6495:

So serious question: why is something that was there from the very beginning (guardian blocks) suddenly a problem now?

It stands to reason that if the blocks didn’t change, then something else must have that is actually the cause of your complaining.

People always do this when a class suddenly becomes propelled into the meta. The thing is, sometimes new buffs/changes should be kept in place as they make the class more competetive/fun/skill-based and it actually is those “old” things which should be nerfed (if nerfing is even necessary).

Imo, guardian’s blocking isn’t that big of a problem with the exception of our f3. It could stand to have a second shaved off of its block time which wouldn’t neuter it, but would also relatively increase the value of the Bulwark trait

Rodzynald.5897:

Arcaedus.7290:

Thematically this is a very cool elite spec idea and I really wish (but doubt) that they would bring spears to land, or give classes polearms. There are just too many reasons that this doesn’t seem likely.

Give me reasons or I’ll cry myself to sleep T^T
I’ll tell you what. I left WoW due to certain things and wanted something fresh so I looked at GW2
Of course I am a righteousfag for life so I always pick paladin archetype classes.
I say, Anet should update some info because year ago I found myself quite dissapointed when I found out that guardian’s tomes were made into underwhelming elites and spears turned out to be an underwater weapons even when a lot of skins for them look like a dangity dang polearm/halber which is nowhere near to be a spear to use underwater.
DANG IT MAN! There are even moments in certain cinematics where some fighters are seens with spears, using them in close combat. Just check out this battle sequence… I feel like Anet is teasing with me. Polearms is a fine chunk of new combat content.

https://youtu.be/TZxUUwKj2DU?t=2m34s

Almost every corrupted sylvari has some sort of a pole weapon (or a staff)

1. “Spears” in the game are already an underwater weapon. If we want a pole-arm type weapon that would involve either A.) “bringing spears to land,” or B.) design an entirely new class of pole-arm skins and animations. Both of these options while entirely possible and widely demanded by us would require a lot of effort, may cause confusion and probably don’t line up very well with what the game developers want to do in terms of future elite specializations.

2. There are already classes that use the staff as sort of a polearm, namely Daredevil and Revenant. Not to say that there couldn’t also be spears (since they’d be more stabbing oriented), but the fact that they already have melee animations for staves just makes it less likely.

3. Contingent on #1, even if they brought spears to land, that would give us new sets of skills which would heavily upset class balance. Devs would have to decide who gets spears and who doesn’t, what compensation the others would get and thematically, what would all spear skills have in common. A possible solution to this is that the next expac brings new weapons into the game (crossbow/bowgun, great axe, spear), and that each of the 9 classes would receive access to these weapons in subsequent expacs. This way all 9 classes would receive roughly equal access to these ‘new’ weapons.

I really want spears or polearms in the game too… there just seems to be too many barriers to their entry into this game which have only increased since HoT came out :/

koniallis.4736:

So new Mechanics would be

Mechanics: Stances and Brilliant Body
Virtues are replaced by stances.
The stances are,
Stance of Justice (The proverbial Dmg stance)
While in SoJ every 5th hit you take spreads Burning and might. When Briliant body is active it also gives quicknes

Stance of Resolve(Support stance)
When in SoR every 5th hit you take spreads blindness and regen. While BB is active also gain resistance

Stance of Courage(Pure Tank stance)
When in SoC every 5th hit you take spreads stability and aegis. When BB is active also spreads taunt

Yes, this is what I was trying to suggest! I think this would be an excellent direction for the devs to take guardian’s next elite spec in if nothing else. Really like the condition/boon you chose for each stance too.

As for the BB effects, I’m not sure about the taunt on Courage. I suppose if it was single target and had a range (maybe 600) it wouldn’t be over powered in pvp/wvw. How exactly were you expecting the additional effects due to BB to work; would they be single-time activation upon activating that stance, or would they periodically pulse?

Thematically this is a very cool elite spec idea and I really wish (but doubt) that they would bring spears to land, or give classes polearms. There are just too many reasons that this doesn’t seem likely.

The main thing I don’t like about your design is it does not appear to be a specialization capable of synergy, but rather an elite spec that creates a class of its own. It’s very limiting in that you don’t get as much out of it if you don’t use the spear/staff/halberd as your weapon and physical skills as your utilities. Guardians need weapon-swap, and being able to mix and match utility types is pretty important for build-crafting.

Stances are a utility skill-type, not a class function. I doubt they will change this for future elite specs. Also, the way the weapon works (skill 4 and 5 change dramatically based on stance) is fairly unprecedented. I mean sure, there are ele weapon skills on different attunements but these feel more like half-weapon skills since they don’t get weapon swaps.

Even with Brilliant Body, the stances don’t seem incredibly impactful (except for courage which dances the fine line of being op). Mechanically speaking, I don’t really like that I would have to press two buttons (switch to stance 1, AND activate BB) just to get a passive effect. I do like your idea of only one stance being active at a time (it’s a unique twist on virtues), but consider making the meat of their effects be independent of BB. Maybe add the corollary of: Having BB active when you you swap out of/into a stance will activate an additional powerful effect based on which stance was switched out of, but send BB into cooldown for a few seconds.

One thing I do like about your design though is the concept of charging ‘Holy Fire.’ This could be a very very interesting way for the new class function and traits to add flavor to the class and also have other traitlines synergize with it.

I wouldn’t be saying anything that hasn’t already been said but:

I believe ANet still leaves the aegis visual on under the reasoning that it’s a “visual cue” to an opponent. The thing is, the visual cue for most opponents is often the boon bar. Also, having a shorter animation (the transparent shield forming along character’s left arm + a lingering blue aegis on the arm for a few seconds ) is really enough of a cue to anyone who pays attention when fighting.

Imo they should change aegis such that the blue shield does not linger for more than a few seconds. Only good could come of this: people would be able to see our beautiful shields and less visual clutter!

Supreme.3164:

Anet seems incapable of collecting sensible feedback, this leads always to overnerfs and overbuffs on professions..

Going to stop you right there. This is absolutely not true. ANet tends not to communicate with us very much in terms of balancing and making class changes but they definitely read the forums and listen to player input/feedback.

The guardian buffs this past patch reflect this. Many of the changes and buffs they made are verbatim changes that were suggested by myself and/or other players on the guardian forum:

• Change sword auto attack to a non-projectile (long overdue change)
• Let Shield of Courage’s stability duration begin the moment you press f3 (logical buff)
• Move the Heavy Light knockback to Longbow 3 only (adds more fun/skill to using LB)
• Every guardian weaponset should have access to at least 1 symbol (sword and scepter got symbols)
• Increase scepter attack speed (they half did this, and half increased projectile speed as far as I can tell).
• Increase speed of sword #3 projectiles (it was extremely unreliable before now)
• Removed the airborne component of Hammer #2 (so it could be used with JI again).

[foxy] black sylvari ranger/druid

Fought you on my guardian. You are one of the most skilled roamers and vicious fighters I’ve ever met. We had 4 encounters in an alpine BL (around N. camp) a couple months or more ago and I ended up stomping you after the fourth. Just know I did this out of respect; you were far too dangerous to let alive!

Fashion Mage.3712:

Arcaedus.7290:

Assigning a skill-type is about defining the skill’s role, not about buffing or nerfing. Doing so isn’t necessary (as is evidenced by 3 still unassigned healing skills), but it would be a very interesting update for the skills assuming the devs can find a balanced way to assign the skill types.

The ironic part is that changing shelter’s functionality so you can cram it into the consecration skill type would do the opposite of defining Shelter’s role.

Except that it wouldn’t? I’m not sure what you think I was getting it, but my suggestion was this: keeping shelter’s function identical to what it is now, then adding functionality isn’t going to take anything away from the skill.

@ Yannir: I really like your idea of making Litany a consecration which opens shelter to meditations. The only problem I see is that this would involve devs going back on their original decision that made Litany a meditation (which is something I can’t remember them ever having done before).

Daniel Handler.4816:

In my previous comment I was only thinking of the certain examples.
But I reassessed the all statement.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Ideas-for-Heals/first#post6315201

Now all heals that were good before HoT received nerfs from categorization. And are worse of unless traited.
Ether Renewal, Withdraw, Corrupt Conditions.

As for Withdraw it received a tool tip change to reflect the change almost a year latter
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Withdraw&direction=next&oldid=1162418

And it still is less dps than before. The cd was increased by 20% but the healing only by 10%. Ergo a 10%(or 20% if the tooltip is wrong) nerf to the hps of a heal skill on a class with 11k base health.

Shelter has all the usage characteristics of the heals that got buffed nerfed.

If that’s the case, then I would by default interpret this as the dev team implying that Withdraw is balanced (if not traited for) considering all of the other changes thief received after the trait overhaul patch. I can see your point though: withdraw could definitely be another example of a skill poorly adapted for skill categorization.

For your statement about shelter: If this was pre-HoT then I would absolutely agree with you. Now, if you compare shelter to both what we received (Purification) as well as what other classes received, it could stand to receive a few indirect buffs through skill categorization without coming across as OP or ruining its currently beloved place in the game.

To illustrate: If shelter maintained its current personal 2s block, healing value, cast time, 30s cd AND also had some sort of new functionality tacked on to it which would thematically categorize it as a consecration, I don’t think it would be OP. This of course all depends on what that functionality is. Realistic worst case scenario is that untraited, shelter becomes a 35s cd, and the new functionality just barely doesn’t make up for the additional 5s cd. Some builds would be screwed, others would be helped and new builds would arise. That’s just how change works though.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Tldr; all uncategorized heals are worse off from being categorized. They were nerfed for the potential to be slightly better if you traited them.

Not true. Your example for necros is applicable but counterexamples lie in warrior’s “To the Limit!” and ranger’s “We Heal as One,” as well as Troll Unguent. Also your point on Withdraw’s healing value not being updated to compensate for extra cd is not a valid argument to support your tldr statement there. That failure can credited more to the dev team’s forgetfulness or neglect; as far as I’m aware they have not ever stated that Withdraw is fine and doesn’t need its heal updated since they announced that its healing would be updated during big skill/trait overhauls back in the July 26, 2015 patch.

The key lies in balancing the skill’s untraited version, traited version and previously uncategorized version. Do I think they can balance this in a desirable way? Absolutely, and you should too. I’ll admit that the balance team did not balance as well as they should have with certain skills but it’s not an impossible task to do for the remaining 3 heals. It is, however, more difficult for shelter since there aren’t a lot of options for an easy as well as balanced skill-type assignment.

Shelter is in a good spot but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be in a better one. I never claimed that my suggestion was a solution. It’s part of the brainstorming process. You can be a part of it too if you want.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Why does everything have to be categorized? If they wanted to buff Shelter then they would’ve done so already, with or without categorization (although they specifically chose not to categorize Shelter). I don’t think Shelter is weak at all either, especially since it’s used and preferred in virtually all game modes except PvP (where it’s still an alternative to Purification).
I can’t see any reason to categorize Shelter as a consecration besides the fact that people want an easy buff to the skill since a lot of guardians use virtues and there’s almost no trade-off for picking the consecration trait.

ANet stated as part of that trait/skill overhaul that they wanted all heal/utility/elite skills to be more well-defined in their roles and thus embarked on a journey to assign a skill-type to all type-less skills. That journey remained incomplete for pretty good reasons; certain skills (like shelter) would either be OP if assigned a skill-type or would need to be redesigned to thematically fit the skill type which could essentially ruin the place that skill currently had in any of the game modes.

Assigning a skill-type is about defining the skill’s role, not about buffing or nerfing. Doing so isn’t necessary (as is evidenced by 3 still unassigned healing skills), but it would be a very interesting update for the skills assuming the devs can find a balanced way to assign the skill types.

Fashion Mage.3712:

So if you think Shelter competes with Purification, which is probably one of the best heals in the game, why exactly do you think Shelter should be buffed? Just because it isn’t flat-out the best heal for guardians doesn’t mean it needs buffs. If anything, Signet of Resolve/Litany of Wrath should be the ones getting buffs, and Purification should get some nerfs if it’s so much better than the other heals (and it seems like it is).

I wasn’t arguing for a direct buff to shelter. My point is that all uncategorized skills should be categorized and the argument that “categorizing them would make them op!” is no longer valid. Assigning a skill-type to shelter would be an indirect buff, which is fine as it wouldn’t be fair to assign a skill-type which inadvertently nerfs shelter.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Shelter becoming a consecration wouldn’t be logical at all. Literally the only similarity Shelter has with consecrations is that it has a duration, which isn’t really much of a similarity. It isn’t ranged, it isn’t targeted, it isn’t AoE, and it isn’t supportive.
Shelter would fit into meditations, but meditations already have a heal, technically speaking. Not that meditations or shelter should be made even stronger by Shelter becoming a meditation, but I wouldn’t mind Shelter becoming a meditation assuming a balanced way to do it was implemented.

Well Shelter obviously can’t be contorted into a spirit weapon and having two heal skills assigned to one skill-type is completely unprecedented (it would also show favoritism) so that only leaves consecrations. With a bit of creativity one can see shelter as a consecration: You’re affecting the space around you to effectively block harm from coming to yourself/allies. We do currently have a skill like that and it’s called Sanctuary, but there are other ways to modify shelter so that it seems unique. One such way is adding functionality. For example: upon casting you still receive your 2s blocking bubble and heal (so the core of the skill is still there) and additionally create a field which benefits/buffs allies in some way that current consecrations do not. This would encapsulate the “consecration” theme quite well if you ask me.

EremiteAngel.9765:

how do you guys fare though against condi heavy enemies like condi phantasm chronos and condi trap or evade daredevils?

Not just the regular condi chrono, but those that uses phantasm with lifesteal sigils.

Or maybe you guys don’t have these opponents on your server / timezone that you are running…

Depends on what build I’m running when I happen upon them.

Best case scenario: between Smite Condition, CoP, traited F2, RF, traited heal and focus 4, I have more than enough condi cleanse to outlast just about any condi build.

As for the ones you mentioned:

I have yet to encounter a phantasm mesmer…. like ever. I imagine these aren’t that great for roaming and are used in niche dueling builds. Either way, destroy the phantasms is what I’ve been told.

Condi Mesmer: If they’re running condi-shatter, it’s a very tough fight but doable. If they’re running a tankier build with dire stats, then your best bet is baiting them into overextending/blowing their utilities then bursting. As long as you don’t do that yourself, you can stalemate them.

Condi trap thief: I just…. walk away. These are quite the trolliest of builds lol.

Condi evade daredevils are pretty problematic. I have found though that they do go down, but you must be more patient, approach carefully and make smart use of condi cleanses (don’t use smite condi just as an offensive attack).

Daniel Handler.4816:

sorrychief.2563:

Just categorize shelter as a meditation.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_skills
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable

The only instances where your health can be denied are if you run into a ward/wall that ccs, an engie/necro/guardian uses an unblockable cc, or for some reason a warrior/revenant is making their ccs unblockable with skills/traits.

So only 20ish skills out of hundreds can stop you from healing.

Shelter is arguably the best heal in the game, being slightly above withdraw (which can only be stopped with wards/walls or guardian pull skills) because the evade on withdraw is half the duration of the block from shelter.

You don’t know what you have.

Oh, I think I do. Been playing guardian for over 2 years now across all game modes. I have a pretty good idea of what Shelter can and can’t do. When HoT came out, I was extremely reluctant to switch over to Purification. After a lot of deliberation, talking with fellow players and advice from excellent duelists (in both pvp and wvw) I made that switch and it helped me to see that Shelter really isn’t all that. Don’t get me wrong, Shelter is an outstanding heal and is still a strong choice that competes exquisitely with Purification. I still use it often, but it’s not the be-all-end-all for guardians like some make it out to be.

Fact of the matter is that it’s not strong enough of a skill that it merits remaining uncategorized. Uncategorized skills are an artifact of the July 26th patch of 2015 which heavily revamped traits. At that time, categorizing particular skills would have made them OP, but nearly a year out from HoT, that wouldn’t be the case.

The only logical categorization for Shelter would be a consecration. The problem is that having Master of Consecrations add on 2s to the current Shelter would make it grossly op whereas nerfing shelter’s block time to a low enough duration (such that when traited, it would no longer be op) would make it completely useless if not traited. That’s why many are so willing to propose new ideas for Shelter so that it can become a consecration.

Here’s an idea for shelter as a consecration:

Consecrate the ground beneath you with a field of light. Allies that pass through the field gain a Shelter which blocks attacks for 1.5 seconds. (Combo field: Light)

Field duration: 3 seconds, Cast time: 1/2s, Healing: same as shelter’s current value, Cooldown: 35 seconds.

It seems rather messy, but if we simply converted the current shelter to a consecration it would be quite op when traited (24s cd, 4 seconds of blocking. Heck, I’d use this over purification easily). If shelter were changed to act like this, it would function as more of a team utility/defence (for which guardian is already specialized in) and wouldn’t be horribly op if traited.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

There’s blocking. I’m fine with blocking. It has counterplay, it has it’s role and price. Take a look at warrior or engi blocks. These are fine and healthy – a block is channeled leaving room for conterplay (unblockable interrupt) or at least doing what it should do – blocking damage while at the same time nor allowing for excessive damage from the character which is blocking – if you’re defending, then you’re defending.

And there’s the dragon hunter F3 cancer.

Is it channeled? Nope.
Does it respect proper counterplay? (unblockable interrupt) – Nope.
Can you prevent it’s casting, given you can’t kill it when it’s already up? – Nope.
Does it in some way limit dps loadout options, given you’re supposed to be blocking at that time? – nope.
Can you bypass it in 1v1 matchup? If you got unblockable immobilize then that’s a big..maybe. If not, no way guard will show you his back for longer then it takes to break stun on fear (given it wasn’t blocked before it even happened).
Does it have at least a long cooldown? Well yes…ah wait, elite that renews all virtues…sooo…nope!

Yeah, this move has more cheese in it then swiss cheese factory, about time to look into it and do some balancing…

How exactly do you propose it get nerfed? It’s a unique skill that’s fun to use albeit mildly overpowered. It may need a small shave, but not a nerfbat. I’ll address the plausability of a nerf with respect to each of your complaints:

“Is it channeled?” – Having f3 be channeled wouldn’t at all be an acceptable tradeoff (compared to base guard) unless it blocked 360 degrees. Even then it’d still be too big a nerf. DHs wouldn’t ever use f3 anymore unlessthey were retreating or playing bunker.

“Does it respect proper counterplay?” / “Can you prevent its casting…” – It is a 1/4s cast. You couldn’t interrupt that purposefully anyways. Also, it’s 1/4 of a second that the DH must spend not attacking. The obvious animation and resulting huge shield in front of them should be enough of a tell for you to change gears.

“Does it in some way limit dps loadout options, given you’re supposed to be blocking at that time?” – You’re correct but there are plenty of other skills like this that can be made out as op when compared to similar skills across other classes.

“Can you bypass it in a 1v1 matchup?” – Yes. Disengage, kite, stealth, use your own defensive utilities/skills because you know when a DH uses f3, they’re about to lay on the hurt.

“Does it at least have a long cooldown?” – A valid argument. The cooldown could stand to have a few seconds added to it as one possible nerf.

I’d say really the only two things then that would be reasonable nerfs to this skill would be 1. a reduction in blocking time. Reduce it from 5 to 4 seconds for example or…. 2. An increase to the skill’s cd. It doesn’t have a whole lot of counterplay but it’s supposed to function as a very powerful skill, not just as a tradeoff like other blocks.

Scrappers are definitely killable, even in 1v1. I was able to regularly down them last season and since then we’ve been buffed and they, nerfed. As far as I know, they have no stab/stunbreak on cc traits so watching their stability and ccing them appropriately should allow you to get in plenty of bursts. They do have plenty of on-demand stunbreak though, so limit your comboes to 1 or 2 hits following cc. Stay out of their melee range (unless you have protection/f3 shield up), save your stunbreak/gap opener for after they use hammer 5 & 3, and consider using GS & Sc/X as you have plenty of non-projectile options against them with this weapon set. I usually kill them by pulling/knocking them through ToF, and then dpsing them down from there.

All factors considered, it’s a pretty close fight. A skilled scrapper only needs to get a few key skills off on you in a row, and the battle goes down-hill but once you learn to recognize their burst (it’s quite predictable), and they yours, the battle becomes a stalemate.

The DoT on binding blade seems odd and also very insignificant (even for a condi build). I’d like either of your changes but think Choice 2 makes more sense since the animation is that of chains wrapping around the target which can arguably be seen as physical.

It is going to be a bit difficult for you to down a dire or trailblazer’s condi chrono with this build but not impossible. Your crit chance and vitality are a bit low.

Here are tips that may help you:

Your gear – good benchmarks to aim for as a guard roamer are as follows: 2200+ power, around 50% crit, 15k+ hp, 2200+ armor, 200% crit damage. These are NOT absolute by any means, but I find straying from any one of these measures will kitten you as a guard roamer.

Your build – full melee is going to have trouble vs. any class that stealths frequently. I recommend picking up scepter in place of sword, or longbow in place of greatsword.

Your skills – Purification helps a lot more vs. Condi chronos than shelter. With shelter you MIGHT cure 1 condition through blocking, but with purification you’re just going to flat out heal 5k more hp. Also, JI doesn’t help vs. Condi chrono much (unless you’re ganking). Try ToF instead and rely on your f2, GS3 or Sword 2 for mobility. Condi chronos aren’t that mobile.

While fighting:

Watch for shatters – Always. Do NOT stay close to chronos when they have 2+ clones up. When they stealth, destroy those clones. When clones are down, get in melee range so you can hit them with smite condi.

Watch for blink – after they use blink is generally a good time to land your burst on them.

Count seconds – after about 3 seconds is when they’ll reappear from stealth. Take advantage of this with your blocks if possible.

Use your condi cleanses defensively. Do not smite condi after only having a couple stacks of confusion on you. Use each utility defensively except for ToF.

Use focus 4 on a clone. The clone won’t dodge, so this is a great way to cleanse 2 condis off yourself.

Stand still and do nothing – hard pressed on condi clear? Need to wait out that 2 second blind so you can cleanse confuse and torment? Standing still and not attacking will protect you from confusion and torment a little.

Against a good condi chrono you honestly probably won’t kill them. But you CAN stalemate them or cause them to retreat. I get this outcome about 75% of the time I fight one. Good luck!

I’m in favor of a moderate resistance nerf (such as immunity to the movement impairing condis and only reducing damaging condis by 50%) only if other classes get more access to it.

It will quite possibly become the new go-to bruiser or even bunker. I ran a very similar build with shouts and honor instead of valor a couple days ago. I found myself survivng under heavy 2v1 pressure for a good 30s +, and could easily tank a couple good condi necro bursts as well. Only downside I’d say is if you miss that ToF, there is next to zero chance of you being able to kill someone since you have no ranged attacks and poor ability to chase someone down.

I honestly don’t have mobility problems between GS 3 (or sword 2), f2, renewed focus for another f2, and JI. Ranged attacks on longbow or scepter + f1 pull (and now cripple) really help me to keep up with foes, so I don’t struggle in 1v1 or skirmish situations either.

Main reason I think guards should receive +25% movement speed is not to balance us in pvp. We’re fine there imo. But the +25% ms would be a huge qol for all guardians when not in combat! We could equip a trait for +25% ms, then when getting closer to our intended destination, switch out the trait. It could even be attached to unscathed contender (since the trait becomes nearly useless in combat)! Pretty please, ANet, consider giving guardians that +25% ms? It’s not so we can be spoiled and “keep up” with others, but rather so we can move around outside of combat and not feel so slow.

joe ooga booga.4287:

Dang, so LB is out?! Awesome I always hated that thing. Scepter is my one true love.

LB and Sw/F works pretty well, but I honestly think GS and Sc/F provides a better combination of dps, burst and sustain against the vast majority of opponents. It finally feels like we have a bit of build variety!

The build mrauls submitted is here in case anyone was wondering: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Scepter_Greatsword

I think mrauls’ build is pretty solid. It relies on GS 3, f2 and traveler’s runes for mobility. For most encounters this is plenty of mobility (this is essentially all the mobility I sport in wvw and it serves me very well). For a version of this build that uses JI instead of CoP, I would indeed take SB over Focus Mastery as you’ll need that extra condi clear. However, mrauls’ build focuses on sustain, damage and on-point pressure and you need more protection up-time to do that. Focus mastery gives you this protection (albeit it’s mildly wasted since it’s behind either 3 blocks or a blind). It’s pretty creative and a good choice.

The biggest problem I have with the scepter/greatsword build is that you are using ToF. You essentially only have one way to force someone across the barrier, so ToF loses a bit of its value compared to a meditrapper with longbow. I would actually opt for Fragments of Faith instead; you get another stunbreak, similar activation damage as ToF, aegis shards help you a bit (synergizes with hunter’s fortification) and you get a chunky amount of stability which is something this build lacks since it doesn’t take heavy light.

sublime goes doggy.4826:

• You can always swap CoP for Smite Condition, just forgot to mention it.

Smite condi + JI + ToF is what I tried running yesterday on hambow. It’s extremely strong vs. other power builds, and can hold its own vs. hybrids but has a lot of trouble vs. a condi necro on your tail & literally any other +1. Classes like condi necro and war which can reapply condi bursts repeatedly are pretty problematic unless you run CoP.

So if you’re facing a comp with at least 1 strong condi build, I think CoP + JI + ToF is a good middle ground between damage and sustain.

Saiyan.1704:

In the old days, conditions stacked in duration and took ages for condi damages to finalize. A 10s+ condi would get cleansed in 5s. The game is evolving in more ways than one so I don’t mind the new condi burst meta Anet brought in to make conditions a threat again.

Only thing I can agree is how easy it is for a War, Mesmer, and Necro comp to stack condi after a full cleanse. I ran a shout cleanse guard prepatch vs these comps and condition bursts were still insane. Granted Necros were stacked in that game so they had higher team dmges.

As far as whether condi is easier played than power builds? Only if you’re a perma stealthed class who just needs to face roll the keyboard to win. Otherwise, they’re skillfloor is very similar to other power builds in the game.

This is a pretty accurate assessment. Condi-bursts should be a thing, it’s already difficult enough for condi builds to get kills against those with powerful cleanses. However, certain builds have too much condi-burst and reapplication, namely the ones Saiyan mentioned.

For me, it would be:

1. Spirit Weapon rework
2. Signet buffs
3. Combining of symbol traits into less traits, or all in 1 traitline.
4. Rework of various traits in Radiance/Zeal (particularly Radiant Retaliation)
5. Some small buffs for staff/torch/focus; these seem to have been left out now.

They took a step in the right direction with the last balance patch for sure!

sublime goes doggy.4826:

Saiyan.1704:

Vikkela.7261:

About the Healway build, Purification might be a better choice simply because receive the light is a bit clumsy to use (allies can dodge it) and you will go down if you get focused

Also since you are using Shield you might want to consider going Heavy Light since you get stability from Shield #5 and possibly stability from Protective Reviver (haven’t tested) when you knock enemies back. You also get stability if your Sanctuary knocks anyone back.
It is only 1 stack with 10s icd however

Good point!

• I dont think that it’s a good idea. Doing that will be a big loss, since you already have enough stab( FragOfaith) and the trait “HunterFortification” synergize way better with your blocks(aegis etc).

---

This is what I Think will be good on Guardian/Dh for the next season.

Great
—————-

- [Hambow](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJASTn8cCVdilDBeDB8DhlEiSe5j+sPL/+wA8aZDgEA-TpBFABiXGAgjAQN7PIwFAghHAABHCAA)

• I really like this build, hammer always been fun to play and its been a while since we saw in Pvp. Theres really good plays that can be made ( like Banish+Ji stomp, Ji+Ring, SpearOJustice(pull)+ring, etc.)

- [MediTrapper](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsdTn8cCVdiVDBeDB8DhlEiSe5j+sPL/+vA8aZDgEA-TpBFABMcCAA4IAIwDAQ8yA1s/ABHCAA)

• Not much to say, everyone is familiar with this build.

- [Support DHunter](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWn8cCVDhFdCeDB8DhlGi6aYXgAAbCiguUe4T+nH-TZRIABAcCAm9JA0z+DdfIAgvMAA)

• I love this build, its remind me of old time. But there is less AOE cleanses, if your team fight against a heavy condi comp theres nothing much you can do.

- [Shout DHunter](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWn8cClCh97AeDB8DhlGi6aYXgAAbCigQQe4T+nH-TZRIABdfIAgvMAAnAgZfCA4s/AA)

• You can swap ’’Retreat’’ with ‘’Hold the line’’ for better protection uptime. This build has more AOE Cleanse, but a bit less of peeling and self sustain. Good if your team is facing alot of conditions.

Vanilla
—————-

- [Bunker/Shout Guard](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWlsAh6hYtQwVIwPEHLEU+F7v/3A8gBgvQFKBA-TZBGAB5XGAgTAAvPBAzPEABt/AA)

• Who can forget ShoutGuard.

Testing
——————-

- [In memory O’Davinci](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAreSn8cClCh1CBuCB8DhlGi6aYXgAAbCigQQe4T+nH-TpBGABBt/AAPAg8LDY+hAg3TAACHBAA)

• If you remember Davinci & Scepter/Shield+Hammer BunkerGuard this is for you.

---

What do you guys think of those builds, hit me up with your POV.
Thx

Namatse,
Sublime

Haha, I hadn’t actually thought of running hambow without smite condi. This looks like an interesting build, and on paper looks viable. You rely a lot more on bow to dps, then hammer for a killshot burst (and the burst really doesn’t rely on smite condi at all in the first place). Only problem is I doubt this build would sustain for very long in a 1v1 or 1vX unless you hit the burst reliably. Build looks like it would be a very strong +1er/mid fighter though.

Kudos for the builds!

Thanks for taking the time to dps test hammer and sword!

On a side note; have you dps-tested either of those weapons against scepter (traited in zeal)? Apparently Writ of Persistence in Honor doesn’t jive so well with scepter, but I imagine the scepter trait + symbolic avenger do.

People arguing this perplexity change is a buff should at LEAST have anecdotal evidence. Sure, on paper you can argue that this is a buff as it gives more condition builds access to confusion but according to the individuals who actually usedbthe runeset before and after the patch, it’s a nerf.

Tested these builds in pvp (and some duels) today!

Burn burst: I unfortunately only tested this in duels (as well as dueled someone who used it in wvw) so my feedback here is limited. In a 1v1 scenario, torch in place of shield is preferrable. The build outputs fantastic burn uptime, and traiting merciful sanctuary instead of absolute resolution (AR) gives you great anti-burst tool as long as you aren’t fighting condi.

Burst Hambow: this is essentially the hambow build I ran before this patch. The only major differences now are that you have increased burst (due to glacial heart) and much better cripple access (thru f1). So this build works like a charm in 1v1s and holding a point. The main problem I’ve run into is low mobility. Unless you run traveler runes or have a herald/tempest/bunker guard to give you swiftness, this build will suffer against an organized team.

Alternatively, sacrifice some of your condi clear for mobility; change out CoP for JI. Hammer + JI is a match made in heaven. This is the build my friend and I tried out today. You get amazing burst, great +1s and have a lot of options opened up to you. One particular combo I became fond of was: Hammer 2 + JI + f1 + ToF. Then wait to see what they do: if they dodge out, f1 them back in then Hammer 4. If they stay in, Hammer 4 them out then f1 them back in. This build is so anti-thief that I cackled like an evil genius and nefariously stroked my goatee a couple times. The main drawback of this alternative build though is condi clear. Against condi necro, mes and war, you will suffer.

Healaway Mace/Shield: this one was actually a lot of fun. I ran Menders Amulet instead of magi, sword/focus in place of staff, and ran “Retreat!”. The idea was to focus on maximizing personal blocks and aegis for self sustain and sanctuary + shield bubbles for cc/support while outputting some small dps. The build worked well for bunkering with a small bit of rotating and felt like something in between old bunker guard and medi guard. I think bunker guard has the potential to return through mender’s or magi amulet.

@mrauls: I think LB3 is a more reliable KB now. True, against certain foes (thief, rev and mesmer especially) you’re less likely to land it, but this is offset by the fact that you can knockback multiple foes with a single attack (GREAT in outnumbered fights or vs. Mesmers)! You also can use the KB on it as part of a combo rather than as a sudden cc: f1 + ToF + LB3. You’ll definitely hit thieves with this.

Also, I’m very excited to see your new vid! Scepter is pretty great! After seeing your post here earlier I decided to take it for a spin. Couldn’t decide what utilities were best, but scepter 2 + immob + Procession of Blades worked great as on-point pressure and the set overall gave me better sustain than X and LB.

Who else logged in, grabbed their sword, rubbed it against their face (sheathed of course) and said “I so deserve this!” ….. anyone? Well someone may have to get my sword a restraining order against me, just sayin.

A big thanks to ANet for going above and beyond, and implementing not only changes the players asked for, but fun new ones! Also, great job to the rational voices of logic on the forums here (looking at you Ghosti!) whose suggestions and ideas actually made it into the game! Keep up the good work.

Straegen.2938:

I have gotten to a point where I can solo flip a camp just as the swords on the camp pop. That is FAR too late unless someone is basically already very near the camp.

Swords on camps should pop the instant a player (and not a PvE creature) hits or is noticed by a guard. Even better in my opinion is if camps worked like flag scouts where players were instantly marked.

+1 for the swords popping sooner, but I think the marking/flag scouts should be an upgrade.

mrauls.6519:

Arcaedus.7290:

Asmodal.6489:

Aeolus.3615:

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

ähm… no?

mace 2 has a traited uptime of 95% can provide a around 500 hp/s in comboed with AH, triggers passiv VoJ more often then any other weapon when fighting 2+ enemies, it can burn, cast vurnability and is basically a 7%10%10% damage modifier in itself and 17% for anything else.

how is that nothing?

In pvp or wvw it’s a pretty disappointing skill. The cast time is far too long, the regen pulse is also way too short which is odd because regen has never at any point been op. Restricted access to boons is usually indicative of the boon’s strength.

Heh, you’d think Engies wouldn’t have so much access to stability or Eles to protection

You’re definitely right. I don’t personally agree with what I said, but it’s what I perceive ANet’s policy on boons to be. Arguably though, eles need that protection uptime to survive and engis stab application is selfish in nature and has some counterplay.

Asmodal.6489:

Aeolus.3615:

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

ähm… no?

mace 2 has a traited uptime of 95% can provide a around 500 hp/s in comboed with AH, triggers passiv VoJ more often then any other weapon when fighting 2+ enemies, it can burn, cast vurnability and is basically a 7%10%10% damage modifier in itself and 17% for anything else.

how is that nothing?

In pvp or wvw it’s a pretty disappointing skill. The cast time is far too long, the regen pulse is also way too short which is odd because regen has never at any point been op. Restricted access to boons is usually indicative of the boon’s strength.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Quite frankly, I hope they completely destroy the “lootstick” aspect of it. It really bothers me that the most supportive weapon that was on what used to be the most supportive class has an auto-attack used purely for farming. The fact that some people are actually in favour for this awful design really irritates me.

If they can improve staff without doing away with the loot-sticking aspect, then they should. The fact that it can be used as a loot stick shouldn’t factor into staff’s balance at all. It’s just a benefit at this point.

That being said, a rework which makes staff an overall stronger support weapon (but removes the loot stick somehow) would be overall welcome.

Obtena.7952:

.

I don’t think that there is much value in putting resources into make things that don’t work well better; especially if there is alternatives; some people accuse me of tunnel vision; I’m just realistic. That’s probably my biggest disappointment with how Anet has proceeded with fixes in the past; just seems it’s never done well the first time and each need a few kicks at the can. The last attempt to buff spirit weapons was a good example of that. They just didn’t quite get them to the point where they find a place in people’s builds. They won’t get there unless Anet look at them at least one more, maybe two more times.

You make some logical arguments here. I would like to add though that the last attempt at buffing spirit weapons wasn’t necessarily a whole-hearted or focused buff, but rather just ANet making the old spirit weapon traits fit into the new trait system. There was also that buff that made spirit weapons take greatly reduced damage in pve but alas it did nothing for spirit weps in wvw or spvp.

I would somewhat disagree with your first point though. I think there is a value in fixing what does not work well. Realistically though, since any class with underperforming utilities has other viable options, ANet probably figures the class can last for a while on these and places low priority on fixing those underperformers. I think this is a fairly good plan of action but the problem is how long they wait to fix those underperformers. 2 months? We’re peachy. 2 years? Not cool.

Aeolus.3615:

Guardian has no trade off to be this counterable.

(edit), forgot to mention bow skills….

This is exactly why I keep proposing they change third sword auto attack and GS 2. They’re projectiles literally JUST for counterplay and have none of the benefits of being projectiles. At least with longbow you get a projectile finisher and 1200 range fast hitting attacks. I’m okay with that tool of ours being counterable by reflecting, but NOT 40% of GS skills and 66% of sword skills.

Aeolus.3615:

Rodzynald.5897:

I’d like to point out that F1 pull does not always work… I had countless situations when I needed to pull someone on clear ground (no obstacles and no elevation). The animation showed my enemy beside me for a second or two and then they just pop get back to the same spot they were before pull.
I thought it was just some teleport at first but well… guess that warriors, scrappers can’t teleport, let’s not forget ranger and guardians and necros (guard needs a target and necro needs a wurm up and running but I was sure they didn’t have those circumstances).
Sounds like a lag issue, but even then the pull should have worked anyway, but with some kind of delay.

Had similiar experiences in good terrain and low elevation, “target is obstructed while” nothing was there…

There are certain areas in WvW (a couple of camps in EBG that I can think of) and a certain node in Legacy of Foefire where projectiles become “obstructed” on otherwise flat ground due to some poorly designed terrain/barriers. Doesn’t seem to be a guardian-specific issue.

Although a bit more focused on other game modes, here are mine:

Top 3 Buffs:
-Guardian sword auto attack #3 and GS #2 no longer have projectile properties
-Revenant weapon auto attacks generate a small amount of energy
-Assigned skill-types to all of the typeless utilities/heals that classes currently have

Top 3 Nerfs:
-Damage of Precision Strike reduced by 7%,
-Adrenal Health has a 10s icd
-Changed Defense field from a projectile reflect to a projectile destroy/block

Aeolus.3615:

The flaws is that medi trapper is a easy build to defeat, and anything besides that dont work.. you wont be able to fight with other than that.

DH trapper even w/o meditations is a very very weak build, what saves the traitline its JI+trap combos.

And guardian survibility exist when leeching other players, even defensive builds aka shouts + mace shield are not that defensive, guardian looses damage, support is still almost zero, it is a build that will make any player beign killed also in very easy situations.
So outside power creep situations guardian dont exist.

Relying on JI + trap comboes is exactly why medi-trapper is “easy to defeat.” Granted, there are some individuals like mrauls who make incredible use of JI but for the most part it’s a very easy to read combo for the experienced players.

I’d like to point this out: There is at least one variant of the medi-trapper that works fairly well and can play competetively against skilled opponents. It’s also possible to perform very well without JI, you just lose some mobility, and can no longer +1 with quite as much of a punch. This leaves the DH with either the duty of holding a side point, or playing a bruiser, and the problem here lies in the fact that all it takes is a single tempest or scrapper and DH’s damage potential is gone. Longbow or not, too many of our weapon skills are projectiles. Reworking (and also buffing some of) our weapon-skills would be a great first-step in bringing core-guardian up to date and would also likely bring guard/DH back into the meta.

Chingiz.9167:

Arcaedus.7290:

I’m not disagreeing with your suggestions, but why is it you think these skills should be changed as such? Imo, to better make the staff a team support weapon, the only one of these changes I’d really like is the change to #4. Other changes should focus on staff 1 and staff 2 as they’re some of the most underwhelming weapon skills in the game and don’t really work well for either support or damage.

Don’t even think about doing anything to our lootstick. >:(

I was thinking it could also heal allies! The fact that it’s an excellent loot stick in wvw is NOT enough of a reason to not buff it. The loot stick property should be a side effect, or a fringe benefit if you will.

It’s pretty crummy that our f2 and f3 DH virtues get completely wasted and go on full cooldown by being interrupted. Imo the f2 should evade while leaping (at least during part of the leap), and the f3 should retain the 1/4s cast time, but the shield should materialize whether or not you’re interrupted.