Guild Wars 2

Nerf Wars 2 – Final Act- ‘The Ranger’

Starring :
Gw2 Community

Special guest:
Anet Devs

August 27th In all cinemas

Blackjack.5621:

hello, my name is ele and i would really like to give up my burning speed tickling dmg after the initial burst because it attacks multiple times per seconds for 100 dmg only, that is less than retal and kills me against hgh engis.

why are there any skills in the game doing less dmg than retal? what is the benefit of it? in fire attunement i can manage to lose 60% of my hp in 3 seconds to retal by attacking 1 person. because of burning speed ticks and triple projectile autoattack.

Burning speed is fine as it is, after all, we do get a fire field with its use and the burst damage can be pretty amazing , regarding retaliation, it is advisable to recognize retaliation boon on guardian before attacking, save the multi hit skills for the time where the guardian has gone through all his utilities and skills that grant retaliation( symbol of wrath, dodge that chain pull)

Punitive mechanics are here to wise us up, ele also got really punitive mechanic:
scepter/focus condition ele against ranged/mele opponents for example or shocking/frost aura

You talk like to dodge a mesmer burst is an easy feat for a d/d ele, you need to stay at mele range to land any burst and your main burst skill need to be manually aimed on the contrary of any mesmer skill, if you don’t take the correct distance you simply sprint past the target dealing no dmg, and the mesmer can simply use its 10s CD invulnerability, phase retreat from any KD/stun while dealing aoe dmg that doesn’t need the target to sit 5s in it ( like staff)

In the video ,@intigo was able to land every single burning speed and that again a mesmer who spamm phase retreat, chaos field and armor, blink, decoy and more…it’s already a feat.

To land any hits the ele needs to go through a barrage of clones, chaos field and stealth/invulnerability skills, the mesmer can keep himself at safe distance while the illusions/clones do the job.

But really..do you see any mele player constantly able to dodge illusionary leap?
I see only warriors and d/d eles forced in playing cat and mouse with the slippery mesmer, the warrior get killed easily but mesmer players say is UP, ele can somehow land some hits on the mesmer by going tanky/healing specc…but mesmer players say ele is OP.

The warrior is your example of zerker mele without the ele condition removal and healing, but he’s got 8k more HP…still the warrior die 1v1 to the mesmer; now you expect the ele to use the same set up while having less and more predictable damage and less base HP….c’mon

Maybe you can show me how you dodge an illusionary leap at 200-300 range while you try to frantically reach the mesmer who’s hiding behind his clones, laughing at you

People should watch the stream of top team using “burst” ele, they’ve got somebody to babysit them 24/7 and all they do is join an already started battle or assault a point only to receive help a second later …maybe to ress them.
Again I don’t like extreme bunkering and don’t use it, but I hate to babysitted for all match and trying to play an ele like a thief

I can’t seem to find anything above average. This ele plays bunker build and that allows him to take so much punishment it’s obviously why anet had to nerf eles. He randomly dodges, I think that during 30 minutes he dodged 1 illusionary leap. Make him scrimm with zerker or at least valk+zerker gear with 1 untraited cantrip against any decent shatter mesmer and he’s dead in 5 seconds after he burns that cantrip for 1st leap.

On the sidenote, why zvzers like to duel with tanky builds? I sometimes encounter 2 people dueling at the bottom of the map for few minutes without any noticeable winner. What’s the point of 1v1 with bunker specs? Your mistakes hardly matter.

I can’t see how at equal level of skill, a zerker ele can compete against a zerker mesmer, all the ele attacks save arcane skills can be easily dodged without the need to use any defensive skills, a mesmer can simply zip out of any snare/kd attempt from the ele.

In a duel with no element of surprise, a full zerker ele got no chance, sorry but when even top 50 players play valkyrie amulet…I won’t be able to take seriously anybody suggesting that an ele can use zerker amulet and be competetive at high level of play.

Assuming the ele is using double arcana, once you survive the initial burst if caught…you can dodge the rest blindfolded.

To land phoenix reliably an ele must be at mele range where dodging an illusionary leap is basically impossible, the shatter build is anti-mele by definition and nobody can tell me that landing a mesmer burst is more difficult than an ele burst.

The mesmer may not have the healing of an ele, but he possess far superior survivability thx to in-built defensive skills, I’m not trying to justify extreme bunkerinh..but at the very least people should stop with staff like zerker ele….playing against top 50 players let you realize how predictable is the ele and any burst attempt by an ele only works if the enemy is distracted or simply a bad player

I believe the majority of ele players place more emphasis on healing and self sustain rather than improving direct damage and manouvreability during combat.

I’m a GW1 ele veteran and there the only source of healing for the ele was from few enchantments, people were more concerned with actual dmg and control rather than trying to facetank everything.

Maybe many won’t remember it but the initial description for the ele in GW2 was this :

" A highly versatile profession, very strong( not the best) in 1vs1 fights and during assault/support, you won’t be able to survive long on your own against multiple opponents"

The recent nerfs I believe is an attempt by Anet to push ele in this direction, nobody is supposed to be immortal and fight against multiple opponents and I’m not talking from a wvwvw point of view but from a tpvp perspective.

The mist form-ether renewal combo was getting really out of hand, I experienced firsthand these eles zipping in, getting loaded with conditions then mistform/ether renewal away….

Now is the ele useless after these nerfs?..absolutely not, mist form still remain the best skill on my bar:

ressing my ally under heavy fire? NP
getting away when heavy focused by enemy team with their dogs, cats, clones, minions etc etc? NP
out of dodges and about to be sent down by a mesmer/thief? NP

…mistform FOREVER
If you go down for bad use of it…well everybody does mistakes and you must pay for them.

Sure the ele still need help with the fire traits, we need better grandmaster/master traits ( fire embrace/pyromancer alacrity/burning precision are the best ones for me) and some skills need to be buffed:

Scepter
-shatterstone
-dust devil
-ice shard

Staff
-gust
-unsteady ground

Focus
-freezing gust

And of course the conjure utilities ( save the FGS), their stats are far too low to justify any possible use, but for now I’d like to thank Anet for the recent buffs on glyph and signets, the new elemental are amazing( well the lesser elemental are still good only for PvE) and glyph of storm is pretty sick now.

About the weapon sets diversity, in the end I had to accept the fact that every weapon set cannot be good at everything, we can’t have a staff user strong in 1v1 as a d/d..that would be a nightmare to face, likewise we can’t have a dragon’s tooth to land 100% of times, the scepter burst sit in air attunement along with phoenix, that’s more than enough to kill any opponent ( if you’re full burst).
Always start in earth, switch to air when enemy in range for double lightning strike, follow with ring of fire+phoenix and use dragon’s tooth during team fight or when the enemy is out of dodges and stunbreakers.

When I beat somebody, I want them to say :" GG you’re good", rather than " lol you can win because you play that noob profession"

I don’t want Anet to introduce something similar to the KD lock combo like in GW1 where after that I had to quit because 80% of the playerbase were eles spamming KD-shockwave…playing an ele after that was really embarassing

Here a signet build I have tested during the last couple of days, my main aim was to design something which would counter the new thief sword attack , this build is able to stack multiple conditions very rapidly and poison helps alot in keeping the pressure on the enemy, you’ll have a dodge always at disposal so that you can match the thief sword evasion while you burn/bleed him away with ease

Haven’t tested yet the build in tPvP, only tried it in private 5vs5 and 2vs2 matches where I have yet to lose a single 1vs1, in 1vs2 you won’t live for long given the low HP and average toughness.

This is just an idea but so far has worked pretty well for me, even against top list players at r40+.

[url]
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArdhEmYbuR5gjEAEFmoSQhAIMKASRRO8A-ToAAzCpIISRkjIDRSisEN6YWB[/url]

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Those aren’t lies, all of those things are achievable with build specification, and some are achievable at the same time through hybrids.

It’s hilarious, all I see are Elementalist mainers savagely defending their class from any form of criticism or belief of unbalance… it’s like they’re expecting a inevitable highly necessary nerf of some sort…

The one who’s expecting excessive nerfs…would be you, if yout think the cantrip ele is what you need to be afraid of…what can I say
Anyway so far your own lack of knowledge of the game in general…it’s mindblowing, you say that with build specification an ele can have burst or go bunker, that’s funny because every profession can do it in their own way…BUT there is no burst/bunker build, do not confuse the damage a bunker can deal on a glass thief or mesmer with pure burst damage, most eles go hybrid ( valkrye) because the trait air line and fire have been poorly designed

The amount of entertainment that I gain by visiting this forum..it’s unparalleled, between a laugh and and another, I can keep my sanity in check while writing this 10000 words report….what I can say..ty lol.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Is this topic about mesmers or eles? I don’t know anymore because the 2 best Mesmers of the world are argueing about what confusion is doing.
I hope you can stop your little war and be adults again. Thanks

At this point ..it doesn’t really matter, between cleric amulet eles hitting harder than a zerker ele with their 6k fire grab and 7k+ churning earth and confusion mesmers dealing no dmg ( like the 20k dmg from confusion when I open my death log..surely must be a graphic mistake) and mesmers with portal unable to cover reasonable distance ( surely those mesmers who teleport from the orb shrine to the crow shrine, in reality must be hiding behind the corner)…I believe the credibility of some posters has already been confirmed -_-….

@Jportel

Yeah right….tPvP bunker mesmers using scepters on a node…where do I find you again on the leader board? Top 50 or Top 10?
I’m sure with your 400 victories in tPvP against high tier teams, you will have lot to teach us and how mesmer is played….-_- can’t wait to hear your expertise.

P.S my bad I believe mesmer in Foefire use another type of portal, surely it must be the one purchased on the gem store, the portal you normally use, won’t allow you to travel from graveyard to quarry or waterfall as you clearly explained Ty again for letting me know

@Jportel

No dude…confusion mesmers are not lame at all, I mean have you ever played one to start with?.
It’s hard to explain when you still claim that a cleric amulet ele can hit people for 6k fire grab, when me at 2004 power – 43-48% crit dmg and 22-44% crit chance(using valkyrie or berserker amulet) can deal that much damage on glass cannon exclusively while still having 12-13 stack of mights, while waiting for the screen shots of your amazing feat with the super cleric amulet ele.

In the meantime let me explain condition mesmer : he comes then, chaos field “trap” , 3 conditions applied, chaos armor- Iwarlock and ta-daaa..6k HP is gone..and you’re still dazed, then you try to do something abut ..“oh kitten got confusion on me” ..and BAM here goes more HP…then comes the fatality, Iwarlock strike again..BAM…and sayonara 13k HP ele.

And about bunker mesmer with portal, in Foefire Map, Mesmers can use portal from graveyard np..do we really play the same game, dude? And what about Spirit watch? blasted bunker mesmer travellling with kittening thief, all of sudded you get hit by a 6k backstab followed by a 4k HS ( reminder for everybody as demonstrated by @Archaon= thieves with no quickness deal no damage, indeed 6k backstab and 4k HS count as no damage)

Yeah @Jportel..I really hate to play against r50+ teams from top 150, I really hate to go against a kittening r59 Necro or super skilled BM ranger and his mighty cat dealing godly damage or Engineer throwing the impossible on that node or the freaking bunker guardian that doesn’t go down even with half team beating him up…or against thieves that deal “no damage” and warriors that are “trash” and suck in PvP

But pls..let’s continue with you guys hotjoin adventures against these cleric amulet eles dealing 6k dmg firegrab, 2x armor of earth and undodgeable 7k+ dmg lightning flash/churning earth combo…

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

A zerker mesmer will deal well over 15k dmg within half the CD required for you to heal up for 6k

lolwhat? Are you talking about real shatter mesmers or just some fantasy forum’s spec? You know they fixed 4k shatter bug months ago…

- Iduellist = 6-7k direct dmg + bleeding
- Izerker= 5-6k direct dmg
- Mindwrack = 2-3k direct dmg +confusion ( 20/20/0/0/30)

Zerker ele = 916 toguhness /1836 armor

Yeah sure because ppl usually go with both phantasm spec and shatter spec at the same time….didn’t know mesmers actually have 120 trait points instead of 70…2 amulets too? full berserker + full rabid i suppose…you know that confusion dealing so much dmg…

/facepalm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD3VhjQCEME&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPPASbjDRrQ&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

Amount of builds available to mesmer ( 5x the number of possible ele builds)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/List-Find-your-Mesmer-Build-Guides/first

You don’t belong here, dunno what level you’re playing at…but it’s extremely low, your level of disiformation is mindblowing, it’s pretty much guaranteed that we will never find your name on the leaderboard, why are you even here?

Ok tell me how many tournaments builds do mesmers actually play at YOUR level, really curious about it…seems your knowledge on mesmers is so great, or you just google some random stuff knowing pretty much nothing about what you’re saying?

Please tell me all those viable tpvp builds. Thank you.

LOL linking builds with moa (Even from jan with pre-nerf tw available) and without portal and talkin’ about how great you are, i know stuff because i’m sooo proo…lol are you serious or what?

The main problem is that you don’t know what it means to play against decent opponents or worst against skilled opponents, even more you have never played as ele against decent opponents..so based on what you even dare to comment?
Not only your 3-4 eles team are non-existent, but also professions like necro or thief for example show none of the weaknesses these forum “heroes” so much cry about

Regarding the tPvP builds met, I’ll list them even though you’ve never played them or against them:

- bunker mesmer with portal
- staff/sword+pistol mesmer
- confusion mesmer
- greatsword /sword+pistol mesmer

And against confusion mesmer, omfg did you just say that confusion mesmers deal no damage in PvP? god forbid you…you really know nothing, you know less than zero about eles…

Finally..do you really know how to read english?
I have clearly stated that the mesmer atm possess 5x the number of builds available to ele, I didn’t say anything specific about tPvP or PvP…I was talking in general

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

A zerker mesmer will deal well over 15k dmg within half the CD required for you to heal up for 6k

lolwhat? Are you talking about real shatter mesmers or just some fantasy forum’s spec? You know they fixed 4k shatter bug months ago…

- Iduellist = 6-7k direct dmg + bleeding
- Izerker= 5-6k direct dmg
- Mindwrack = 2-3k direct dmg +confusion ( 20/20/0/0/30)

Zerker ele = 916 toguhness /1836 armor

Yeah sure because ppl usually go with both phantasm spec and shatter spec at the same time….didn’t know mesmers actually have 120 trait points instead of 70…2 amulets too? full berserker + full rabid i suppose…you know that confusion dealing so much dmg…

/facepalm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD3VhjQCEME&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPPASbjDRrQ&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

Amount of builds available to mesmer ( 5x the number of possible ele builds)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/List-Find-your-Mesmer-Build-Guides/first

You don’t belong here, dunno what level you’re playing at…but it’s extremely low, your level of disiformation is mindblowing, it’s pretty much guaranteed that we will never find your name on the leaderboard, why are you even here? You’re not helping new players with the disinformation you’re spreading, maybe going back to the PvE subforoum is suggestable for you

-edit- just another information which could help you even at the low PvE level you’re playing, EA trait dodge count as skill activation and mesmer apply confusion on shatter..for clone, removing confusion will still deal damage be it the water dodge or normal skill

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

kostbabis.8791:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

kostbabis.8791:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Make eles choose 2 attunements like how everyone else chooses two weapon sets.
Boom balance

Very interesting!!!
But i have some questions..Are you gonna do/ pay for the hundreds of hours of work of many people done to redesign just the weaponsetsThen the traits and then do a very good markting strategy so that people dont laugh at you for attempting something like that almost a year after release..And probably enable refunds for those that have grinded their kitten in pve and possibly pay them some return for the emotional damage you just did
Come on guys..Thats the spirit!Keep the ideas flowing!!

Why would you need to redesign? I think you just select two and the others become locked out for example. Traits would not need changing because everyone’s traits are weaponset selective, meaning you only pick the ones that would benefit the attunes you want. I think it could work, but attunement swap recharge would have to be changed to 10 sec like weapon swaps and the arcane effect would have to be something different probably instead of attune recharge. It is just a thought.

Wait you are seriously proposing to have them stuck with only 2 as a balancing factor?
With attunements be just th way they are?No offence you can me an amazing player(of another class ofcourse :P )but you honestly must have not even touch this class.
No seriously just play 10-20 tournament games or just hot join with using only 2 of them and you ll see .The heck go to pve land and level up to 10 or whatever and you still will understand !No point in writing walls of text why this doesnt make sence

AlBundy.7851:

And probably enable refunds for those that have grinded their kitten in pve and possibly pay them some return for the emotional damage you just did!

Ohh please make change so this fgt emo kills him/herself. I don’t care what changes you make just anything that emotionally damages this doooucher. Please please please!!!???

I dont even have max gear you kitten :P

What are you even saying here… Why I think two attunements would be balanced? We all have two weapon sets, and seeing as that is the basis of balance, what is your point. You could still build offensively or defensively or hybrid if you prefer, just pick your two elements.

To be in line with the other professions I should then be able to pick scepter air and dagger OH fire as my first set, and then equip a staff fire in my second set.
Or I could have scepter fire and dagger earth on my first set and then equip dagger MH fire and dagger OH air on my second set…..

This must be the best idea that I ever had the pleasure to read on this forum, basically you’d bring back the ele from GW1…kitten Anet remove karl from the design team and employ @Interpret, I’m not kidding, do it now!

I can only pray a dev read your post

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

A zerker mesmer will deal well over 15k dmg within half the CD required for you to heal up for 6k

lolwhat? Are you talking about real shatter mesmers or just some fantasy forum’s spec? You know they fixed 4k shatter bug months ago…

- Iduellist = 6-7k direct dmg + bleeding
- Izerker= 5-6k direct dmg
- Mindwrack = 2-3k direct dmg +confusion ( 20/20/0/0/30)

Zerker ele = 916 toguhness /1836 armor

Swim.6830:

kostbabis.8791:

yep this thread is a big pile of bs..rangers that dont have cond removal,zerkers eles that heal t full,undodgeable ce..i just give up.
Pick up your torches and bring ele to the fire and then probably engie and whatever,,You guys are legitimately stupid

Aye so true, I haven’t seen any specific valid counter to my argument.

I also want a screenshot of that churning earth bunker ele that does 6k dmg (which by the way equals one CnD on average).

Just so everyone knows, a bunker Ele with proper healing will have at the most 15k HP and can be easily killed with some burst. But I suppose since condition tries to be the new Meta, everyone starts crying because there is one class they cannot kill with their ZOMG SUPER BUILD!!!

They’ve got no counter to your argument, they never had them to start with, this should give you a clear indication of the nature of these claims
I can give you a brief overview on what has bees said so far about eles:

First instance:
- Ele is so OP and easy to use that anybody can make one and owns people
- Ele is OP..but you need to play a specific build
- While being OP and easy to use, you still need to be decent for you not to die while using an ele
- Only a skilled opponent can beat an ele

So ele is OP but you need to learn to play and use a specific build and will win for sure against unskilled opponents…kk

Second instance
-Bunker cleric ele is OP but burst is little
-Burst zerker ele is OP and can bunker
- Bunker eles ( with cleric amulet) can deal 6-7k fire grab and use double arcane utilities(O_o?)
- Burst ele can bunker with double arcane utilities, have 2x armor of earth and heal himself for over 6k HP ( O_o??)

I’d be you…I wouldn’t take seriously this game, it will be never an e-sport for as long as you find these level of comments on the PvP forum, a developing company that take seriously these complaints..shouldn’t be taken seriously either

kaplis.7195:

jportell.2197:

Swim.6830:

@jportell.2197 – Please show me a screenshot of a bunker Ele that firegrabs over 4k. And if they do, that’s all the damage in burst they will be able to do. If you can’t avoid the air auto attacks, you simply aren’t moving good enough.

Don’t need to… The churning earth combo hits for 6-7k… See the thing about bunker eles as opposed to other bunkers is they can use a berserkers amulet with some toughness runes and still be hard to kill… and before you say “OMG churning earth so easy to dodge” that is why there is lightning flash (instant teleport before channel ends) The healing on eles is so insane that they don’t need a clerics amulet or a valk for that matter they can heal to full without even touching their heal skills or utilities just swap to water dodge dodge cleansing wave and tada full health….. Firegrab is good if you can land it churning earth is a lot easier to land (if you know what you are doing)

So you can dodge churning earth alone but when lightning flash comes into play it becomes undodgeable!? What….?
As for healing – have you even played a berserker ele? No way you can heal to full health without investing into healing power. With 150 healing power (15 points in water) you get 1.45k (switch to water) + 1.6k (water trident) + 1.45k (dodgeroll) + 1.45k (cleansing wave) health using all your cooldowns. That’s 6k health out of 15k while being VERY squishy. I’m pretty sure you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And the most funny thing you know what is?
A zerker mesmer will deal well over 15k dmg within half the CD required for you to heal up for 6k on your zerker s/d build and from distance, if you’re playing a d/d zerker not only you’ll never heal yourself for 6k but also you’ll be killed without being able to even touch the mesmer

SwickHobo.5096:

Swim.6830:

@SwickHobo.5096 – I don’t see you complaining about bunker rangers that are even more mobile and actually EVADE your attacks WHILE rooted and WHILE executing said movement abilities… Also if you don’t know how to force an Ele to use up all the cantrips, please ask or don’t post BS. I have no issues on my Warrior or Necro. You simply have to scare the Ele away in the example you made.

Rangers have little to no con removal so poison will literally destroy them and make them 1v1able in a respectable time. They also have maybe 1 Stun break that doesn’t come from some garbage unreliable trait. They also have no stability, the strongest bunker boon (apart from protection maybe) except on RoA which has a very very lomg CD. You can only bait out breaks on average players. A good player will not panic when stunned or feared and auto break it, but see what you do to follow that stun. If its worth breaking they’ll do it on reaction to w/e your using. Not just cause they’re stunned. Ele’s stun breaks are on respectable CD’s. especially lightning flash. And of course Armor of earth x2 is pretty anti CC for a lot longer then it takes for a person to respawn. My problem with the ele isn’t how good it is, but the fact that it has no hard counter. Conditions will melt a bunker ranger/mesmer. Heavy sustained damage will down a bunker guardian. A bunker thief can’t reliably stay on point so he can tank forever with no plus side. Engies are extremely weak against conditions on some builds, burst on others. Ele is good against everything. Has an answer for everything. Isn’t countered by anything except in excess. Its poor design. Period.

Rangers have little to no con removal so poison will literally destroy them

-Emphatic Bond
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
-Evasive Purity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
-Signet of Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal
-Shake it off
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off
-Healing spring
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring
-Nature’s Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature%27s_Renewal

They also have maybe 1 Stun break

-Lightning Reflex
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes
-Signet of Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes

The rest is just a mix of disinformation, biased opinion and what I see is just another “pro soloer” trying to kill a full bunker with his trusted “build” used for the last 4-5 months

Thanks God!

At least this time I’ll have somebody who will tell the devs how rubbish are : conjure/signets/glyph, how ridicolous are fire/air traits , how garbage is the staff, how shatterstone and dust devil on scepter are utter trash and how close to UP are ele elites.

As long as @Phantaram will tell the devs: how much the ele community kittening hate conjure and other non cantrip utilities, how frustating is the lack of defense and reasonable direct damage on staff, the scepter which need few buffs there and there and how ridicolously UP the focus is…I’ll be happy, He can then have bunker ele build nerfed all He wants

Viprek.6730:

I cant help but notice the sudden appearance of posts to nerf us eles when, coincidentally, spirit watch is in the rotation….

I wonder why…

It was the same few weeks ago when Spirit watch was in rotation, the week that Kylo was the map you couldn’t find any ele QQ thread except of course the ones opened by the same 2-3 die hard haters( no need to name them…they’re pretty obvious), until the next map get in rotation, you can easily expect 3-4 more QQ ele threads with the same 2-3 die hard haters making their contribution

Aza.2105:

Well ele is suppose to be the jack of all trade class. The problem I see is, they forgot to include the “master of none” part. As it stands ele can outperform the primary strengths that other classes are suppose to be good at. They have better mobility than thieves, and probably better heals and boon up time than guardians.

And while they are suppose to have access to those type of strengths they aren’t suppose to out do those classes who are built around those functions. I think as a whole the ele class (this applies to all the classes in game) will be difficult to fix without breaking something and making them entirely unplayable.

From the beginning the pvp system in this game has been extreme, its either THIS or THAT but nothing in between. So far, nothing has really changed. I’d blame the dev simplifying the gw1 pvp system so much and forgetting to keep intact the things that made gw1 pvp great in the first place.

At this point its probably best to rework the entire pvp foundation than to continue to build upon a flawed one.

You’re better off looking for a new game as you’ll never get that level of changes

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Grizledorf.5290:

Swim.6830:

Frankly these posts are quite annoying now. I am done pointing out to people the weaknesses and strengths of an Ele to the bads, so I will now only say this… QQ moar

Agreed, it’s just spam now. Meanwhile my ele just died to a backstab for 10k damage in tPvP and then hit by eviscerate for 8k. I got hit by heart seeker that did 5.9k earlier and got mugged for nearly 7k then Ice shard stabbed for 4k

This is either you are not using proper build or playing it incorrectly.

Wait…so now you need the correct build and need to play it in the correct way in order to be OP?So once we nerf this “OP” build, everything else will fall in the same scene as depicted by @Grizledorf, where regardless of what spec you use on ele you’ll get killed by a thief with those numbers…it’s extremely hard for me to see this game become a serious e-sport material any time soon

..I WON!
Call me Nostradamus the prophet! XD

Soon somebody will show up and tell you that mesmer and thieves are fine..but eles are OP, also you’re lying and people run only 3-4 eles for team, I can bet all you want!

-edit-
LOL! Man I was sure , sorry OP but @mursie has beaten me by few secs, so let’s change the bet..soon you’ll get somebody telling that only eles are found in tPvP, like 3-4 for team.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I think other classes don’t need a buff. I think other traitlines than water/arcana from the elementalist need buffs, so we could see some other setups in traitlines as the usual 0/0/10/30/30 or 0/10/0/30/30.

The other traitlines have been nerfed before launch..because people were crying on how good was the dmg on eles…but know you people are crying on how good ele is at surviving so you ask to buff back the dmg trait lines.
I see that the crying go always both directions….

Ultima.8673:

Arheundel.6451:

Ultima.8673:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Ultima.8673:

maybe anet should ask some elementalists who made more than 2k tourneygames than a necroplayer. people cry about elebunker because it seems to be unkillable in a 1v1 ???? (engi will rip apart eles, good ranger can do the same…)

cantrip ele is not broken imo (many people just suck 1v1 and have no theorycrafting skills and play bad builds) …just buff warrior

Even Phantaram said the same Thing. If you wanna offend ppl then make sure you’re above their skill Level. Otherwise it’s just embarassing.

well phantaram was not making such a big show and he said it maybe needs lil fixing and he didnt say ele cantripbuild is totally broken. and besides of that phantaram plays a different role in his team than i do : he is more offensive roamer while i am more support/ tanky teambuild with ability to fight/hold a node and maybe win 1v1 2v2 situations >:D
and i think i play on the same skilllevel than phantaram so…

Would you agree on having a weapon set specifically for bunkering and another for pure dmg offensive role?
-switch cleansing wave (skill) with comet and change animations, making the new comet a PBaoe daze
In this way I think the weapon sets would have more defined role compared to know and both you adn Phantaram can keep play the ele in whichever way you want

nope cleansing wave is a great aoe heal /condiremover that daze is a joke keep it on focus. on high pvp noone plays focus nor staff because it is kitten compared to daggers rtl and the healing and earthquake.
ele truely shines in a balanced build if u fix too much it becomes nothing —- a thief is still best roamer imo… and the nrole as support tanky healy with some damage as ele fits best for that class..

ele proper played = best allrounder if u like or not :P

allrounder = constant QQ
Just have a tank and roamer option on different sets..and we can finally start to see the light at the end of this tunnel, where we can hope for decent buff and not like the recent ones ( comet now drop faster….you obtain a single stack of might everytime somebody hit you while using fire shield…-_-)

Necro is a support/debuffer class, as it was in GW1, of course this doesn’t sit well with the current community..hence the QQ and UP cries on necro, while this profession in a tPvP match can come and land a pandemonium on a point, killing all your team ( not kidding and we’re talking about r50+)…still you get people crying about necros..yeah I know

Ultima.8673:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Ultima.8673:

maybe anet should ask some elementalists who made more than 2k tourneygames than a necroplayer. people cry about elebunker because it seems to be unkillable in a 1v1 ???? (engi will rip apart eles, good ranger can do the same…)

cantrip ele is not broken imo (many people just suck 1v1 and have no theorycrafting skills and play bad builds) …just buff warrior

Even Phantaram said the same Thing. If you wanna offend ppl then make sure you’re above their skill Level. Otherwise it’s just embarassing.

well phantaram was not making such a big show and he said it maybe needs lil fixing and he didnt say ele cantripbuild is totally broken. and besides of that phantaram plays a different role in his team than i do : he is more offensive roamer while i am more support/ tanky teambuild with ability to fight/hold a node and maybe win 1v1 2v2 situations >:D
and i think i play on the same skilllevel than phantaram so…

Would you agree on having a weapon set specifically for bunkering and another for pure dmg offensive role?
-switch cleansing wave (skill) with comet and change animations, making the new comet a PBaoe daze
In this way I think the weapon sets would have more defined role compared to know and both you adn Phantaram can keep play the ele in whichever way you want

I’m aware of the reason why Anet is reluctant in implementing a solo Que system, potentially pre-made teams could end waiting for mins ( hours?) before a viable match can be started.

That’d be a reasonable explanation still if the system is left as it is, before long pre-made teams will end up waiting for long periods of time anyway..because no-one will want to solo Q and get steamrolled in the process everytime.

This is what killed the PvP community in GW1 and it’s already happening now in GW2, solo Q teams don’t pop out anymore for me.
Personally I don’t know if the matchmaking system is working atm, yesterday night my PUG team was able to beat a top 150 team by 200 pts difference, then the second time we lost by 20 pts to the same team and I had a quitter and a r1, how that r1 got in my team…no idea, but why I got matched with a top 150 team..it’s really something I’d like to know.

At this point I wonder if this matchmaking system is working correctly, in theory I shouldn’t be able to play against a top 150 team..and neither a r1 should appear in my team ^^ ( hey he got 40 pts in the end, no idea how did he got those 40 pts but fun nevertheless)

Zenith.7301:

Med.6150:

Great post, but I really think the OP and others underestimate the impact and potential of non-bunker Elementalists and very few if any of the proposed changes are going to affect those, if we start increasing the base heal and simply lower the healing coefficients.

You take an elementalist with a Valkyrie’s amulet and the common 0/20(15)/0/20(25)/30 build with 2 arcane abilities and you can potentially deal 10k damage instantly to any glass cannon without them being able to react (switch to air for Electric Discharge, Lightning Strike, Arcane Blast and Arcane Wave). In fact you can even do all that while performing a dodge roll.

I really don’t want to punish a class more than necessary (while I do believe that bunker elementalists are too strong, I am not convinced that they are the strongest build to play currently in terms of sheer impact in fights), but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that not only can you have 4 instant damaging abilities on a low cool down like described above, but that 2 of them (3 if we include Arcane Shield) are utilities that auto-crit and thus can deal great single and AoE burst damage regardless of your crit chance.

If you want to crit on an ability, you’re supposed to invest in crit chance.

?

Arcane blast/wave both hit for around 3k a piece under best case scenarios, Lightning Strike for about 4k. Arcane utilities have 20-30 sec cd. It takes a mesmer 12 seconds or less to deal more than that in cooldowns, and the same applies to thieves.

And the efficacy of this combo all relies on the opponent not dodging/invulnerability any single one of them while being glass cannon. You can’t pull this combo on a thief that goes in and out of stealth, and if you’re dealing that kind of damage it means a thief can likely kill you in a mug>backstab>heartseeker sequence.

If the opponent has any decent amount of toughness, the ele will die. Scepter has garbage sustained and requires heavy team support compared to dagger to land his hits.

Arcane wave : with 2104 Power, 48% crit dmg, 44% crit chance on light armor golem = 1980 dmg at 30s CD…dunno where the 3k dmg come from, it must be against a pure glass cannon with base toughness 916

JonathanSharp.7094:

Very well written Symbolic.

Great write-up. Just so you guys know, we’re trying to bring down the cantrip Ele, while also being careful to let other Ele builds work. We don’t want to just take all Ele’s out of play, but we do need to bring a few things down (traits/skills) in efficacy.

While doing that I hope you’ll remember other things the OP has mentioned in his blog :

1) Useless utilities outside cantrips ( conjures should be deleted and replaced with something else)

2) Lack of viable ranged damage ( scepter/dagger practically require you to play at mele range to land the overly slow moving phoenix..while landing dragon’s tooth still remain impossible without a min of 3s CC)
3) A single barely usable elite : Glyph of elementals

4) Completely useless fire trait line and partially usable air trait line ( 2-3 traits are decent )

5) Focus need a serious look, there is good defense, but the fire/water skills are UP

6)Staff is far too slow while not enough CC skill ( 2s cripple unsteady ground 30s CD and ground targeting small hit box: gust and shockwave are close to garbage)

Personally I think the water heals should be removed entirely, I can assure the devs that 100% of the players in the ele community has chosen this profession thinking it’d be something similar to the GW1 version, loads of control and very decent damage, we’d be more than happy to have a 3-5k base HP more along with more damage and control and you can then give the heals to some other profession

Med.6150:

Great post, but I really think the OP and others underestimate the impact and potential of non-bunker Elementalists and very few if any of the proposed changes are going to affect those, if we start increasing the base heal and simply lower the healing coefficients.

You take an elementalist with a Valkyrie’s amulet and the common 0/20(15)/0/20(25)/30 build with 2 arcane abilities and you can potentially deal 10k damage instantly to any glass cannon without them being able to react (switch to air for Electric Discharge, Lightning Strike, Arcane Blast and Arcane Wave). In fact you can even do all that while performing a dodge roll.

I really don’t want to punish a class more than necessary (while I do believe that bunker elementalists are too strong, I am not convinced that they are the strongest build to play currently in terms of sheer impact in fights), but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that not only can you have 4 instant damaging abilities on a low cool down like described above, but that 2 of them (3 if we include Arcane Shield) are utilities that auto-crit and thus can deal great single and AoE burst damage regardless of your crit chance.

If you want to crit on an ability, you’re supposed to invest in crit chance.

An ele with valkyrie amulet practically got 13k HP and no stealth or clones, I dunno why somebody should go 13k HP if He doesn’t receive anything in return, both arcane utilities have already been nerfed not once but twice both in damage and CD, furthermore an ele with double-arcana has got a single stun-breaker, couple this with the 13k HP and glass cannon or not, you die with a single mistake, you get a mesmer with duellist and berseker than you don’t see coming and mist form on CD, pretty much you’re dead as duellist deal 7-8k dmg and izerker deal 6-7k dmg..the end

Seriously is that something this class is allowed to do without people complaining?
People have been constantly whining about ele even before launch, Anet has already massacrated the damage, you need to perform some crazy kitten with a s/d to let every single skill to hit, while you need a borderline suicide build to do close to the damage a mesmer or thief can do from safe distance or stealth

How people can complain when a mesmer can deal close to 10k dmg with Iduellist ( 8k dmg + bleeding ) from distance, instantly for half the CD of arcane wave?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Its a good post and I would wish anet would read it. But they see things differently. I wouldnt except any ele nerfs in the near future. They already said in the last sotg that they thought ele healing was fine after their tiny evasive arcana nerf.

So good post which puts in detailed form what we all know. But it wont matter because anet dont think ele is op. So w/e

The difference between you and the OP, is that he knows perfectly how “balanced” ( it’s actually below by a moderate level) is the elementalist outside the “well known” full heal bunker build.
Not once the OP has stated that the ele in its entirety is broken! He gives good suggestions that would improve the ele and break the OP build you so much whine about, I’d rather have Anet spend the whole year with these type of suggestions than taking your “suggestions” in consideration even for 10s worth of reading, the ele could be deleted if they’d implement anything suggested by you!

Ralathar.7236:

Fishbait.6723:

They became Op when every single one of them got sick of being 1-2 shot in 1-2 seconds by everyone & their granny, so were forced into going tanky so they could tolerate the “balance” in this game ;p

Funny, in WvW I play super glass with 12k hp and 2k armor and I do fine. Rampagers. sPVP of course is another story I’m sure. I actually outlive 90% of players and lay down crazy amounts of damage with staff AOE + good utility OR run my scepter/dagger for small scale single target burst/chase.

I have no survivability problems. I adjust my utility skills to the danger of the situation and change weapons before combat for different fights. Ele is flexible and dangerous.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Since first week of open beta ele has always being overpowered. The only difference is that thanks to a unselfish person that decided to share one of the many builds that make ele great at pvp that even amateurs can be decent with.

Ele has indeed been OP since beta, the instant mist form just heightened it. Also they gain strength in groups and the bunker build became well known.

To all you saying Bunker Ele is not OP: They should be killable like anyone else. IF they are nigh unkillable their damage should be pathetic. Currently their damage is average or better and they have some of the best survivability in the game played right. There is no tradeoff. Also, immobs only work when not cleansed.

You cannot have decent or better damage and excellent surviability combined with mobility and cleansing or you get the fabled tank-mage. It’s as simple as that.

A bunker ele is unkillable only for low skilled players, at top tier , a bunker ele will go down easily against 2 average players, being a bunker you can outlat at least one opponent not two opponent of equal or superior skill, all other ele specs( semin bunker- glass cannon) require way more skill than: thief-warrior-ranger combined

If any of you still claim that bunker ele are unkillable..pls let me know, I’m ready to show you why you’re not unkillable

Mrbig.8019:

Now i believe no one should ever solo que.

Not only you are risking your rating, but you’re also lowering the level of your pre-made, if you create one, making your team to face worse enemies, slowing your ( and their) rating increase.

Solo queing is actually bad and not beneficial in any shape or form.

The only positive note is that MMR will make the same teams to face each other over and over, so the super cheese will soon get discovered, abused, AND NERFED, with subsequentially buffs to other classes.

Maybe balance will come from it, who knows.

Did you check the leaderboards? 2/4 of them is thieves/rangers..yeah so much for “cheesy” classes

Eliyahu.1467:

Calae.1738:

Elementalists have the lowest health and armor in the game.

We spec into fast attunement switching, healing and condition removal while wearing vitality and toughness gear in order to not get destroyed. You nerf the Elementalist and you destroy the only viable spec we have because everyone is specced roughly the same way.

Once that is done the class itself is destroyed.

I have prepared for this day; in case the developers decided to get stupid. I have enough gold saved up to power level any class to 80 in 3 hours and buy an entire set of exotics. 20 pristine relics for 2 ascended rings and 70 laurels for an ascended amulet. Guild commendations are rolling in at 3 per week and saving them up for 2 ascended accessories.

Ele have other “viable” specs, but non-dagger weapons could do with some buffs and daggers need some nerfs. Right now there is only one Elementalist weapon set worth taking and that’s D/D. It does everything better than all the other weapon sets unless you need something extremely specialized like long range AoE. Bunker, healing, mobility, damage, CC, team support, conditions, condition removal, combo fields/finishers — all of this is better on D/D.

You can totally play with other weapons, but they are nowhere near as complete as D/D. Staff, scepter, focus — these are all highly specialized weapons sets with defined strengths and weaknesses. D/D is as universal as it gets — the only weakness is range and it has everything else.

What are you on about? You nerf d/d and buff the rest, then people start whining about the rest, so we nerf the rest and buff the d/d back..are you for real?
The d/d has already been nerfed enough, now it’s the other weapon sets which must be buffed to equal level, the ele is supposed to be able to do everything at medium level on every weapon set BECAUSE WE CAN’T SWITCH SET during combat and the range weakness is the main weakness and a big one also and that must be the only weakness for each weapon set : range.

You can’t have specialized weapons on the ele, if I wanted specialized weapons I’d play another class and specialize myself how I see fit: range/mele? np…range/range? np…mele/mele? np, for ele each weapon set should be good at everything at its given range, that’s the design of the profession so now I want all weapon sets to be good as d/d… or completely re-make the profession, starting from scratch, your choice!

Login.5102:

I’m 40+ r from mostly tourni’s and main a condi necro. In my experience I dominate most classes in 1v1 situations and feel like the MVP in team fights . Not trying to toot my own horn, but I feel a well played necro is beyond good, so reading the threads about tier lists and overall hate for the necro came as a shock.

Why do people feel that way about the necromancer?

Nothing stop baddies from chatting crap, that’s why

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

Really…..why don’t you post your build and possibly a video of you losing to an engy?

paleeshi.1924:

Arheundel.6451:

Donut.6914:

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

People will just dodge through them and get to you in no time

I don’t know if it’s just me or do people not know how to CC people inside AoE fields? Also by putting up AoE fields, if people are automatically want to dodge them, makes them run out endurance faster and gives you more advantage.

Other than that, you don’t need you’re AoE to kill someone with staff. A strategic rotation through the attunements with their AoE fields and CC will put pressure on the target, giving you time to nuke it with single target spells in between.

The biggest different between D/D and Staff is that D/D makes you more mobile and allows you to reset the fights whenever you wish to. However it allows has a lot of “dead time” when you are not attacking your target, unlike the Staff which allows you to put constant pressure. It is true that you cannot handle as big amount of people as with daggers, but in 1v1 situations and small scale fights (say 4v4 or so), it’s still a workable tool.

Using your CC inside your aoe?
I think every ele has already tried that multiple times, what you don’t get it is that you use your long CD “CC” skills to land few dmg skill whose total dmg can be summed up to the same dmg any other class can deal in 1/4 of the time and without using any CC, and about CC .

The d/d set got no “dead times” compared to staff and scepter, you’ve got effective dmg on all attunement low CD CC skills and low CD gap closer/creator, basically it’s with d/d that you can keep constant pressure.
The overly long casting animation of staff allow the opponent to recover quite easily

Malkavan.9613:

the problem that the operation to craft them is not that exciting…not to mention is a click fest when you want to craft multiple dyes….

This^ , plus the fact that on 200 dyes I didn’t get anything worth selling, maybe 20 rare of which white gold was the most exclusive

Donut.6914:

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

People will just dodge through them and get to you in no time

Lert.6287:

Don’t get me wrong, but expecting from staff exact same as D/D is like saying warrior would do great on versus with longbow and riftle. Staff is good ranged weapon, surely better for zerging, but for vs there are better options (d/d).

People complain they want same mobility with staff, same survivability, same combo, same damage (or greater) yet all that staying in range. Ah, ye, they also want the abilities to stay perma on range. Best when enemy gets even close to you, skill that evades you back 1000 yards and grant every possible boon for unlimited time.

Enough is enough.

Cmon people. Drop some decent feedback. Not your imaginary vision of staff as best possible weapon choice.
I do know how much D/D is more powerful in 90% cases and situations, but staff isn’t really that bad. I myself run in pretty often lately to get more out of it.
All I could possibly expect is some tiny improvment, nothing really else.

Yeah but warrior can switch to mele weapon from longbow/rifle…we can’t switch to d/d that’s why many requests should be considered reasonable.
We can’t have a whole weapon set entirely based on support, in PvP if you use glassc annon build, you’ll get slaughtered once thieves or warrior close in, but you still need a glass cannon staff build to do any decent damage those few times you can actually hit the enemu.
On the other hand if you build tank for support, you deal no dmg and won’t be able to support at all once somebody close on you, because you’ll be busy dealing with him..there is no backline in this game, so the the design of staff is flawed

Fortus.6175:

Claudia De Anar.6304:

I’m still leveling up but…
I’ve played staff since Day one, and D/D only about 2 days, it is so much more powerful; there is no comparing the two. Staff really does need some love that way.
Still when you want to go Staff say in a Champion fight the present situation is aweful;

If any devs read this please give us a weapon swap button/option even if it requires a significant ‘cast time’ and cool down; having to literally retreat out of combat, and open ones hero inventory just to change weapons; well its painfully inelegant; and it blinds you while your fumbling round the open Hero GUI; again no other class has to blind fold themselves to change weapons. (Do they?)

As with any other class we need to have our full array of options available.. we are Ele’s not mystics; we can’t always know in advance what the next fight will be, and what weapon we need to equip.

Lastly if I may,
While ‘Area Denial’ and other considerations discussed about might have some value in a PvP situation; I would not know; what I do know is the Staff is the Iconic weapon of a Mage, I dont recall ever reading a story about a Dagger wielding Wizard. Some of Us are not self described gamers first thinking only in terms of PvP roles,

I dont think is should be too much to ask that we have real access to the Iconic weapons of our classes; these should be not nerfed to a speciality item only useful in a situation/format a good many of use will never particiapate in really. Sorry but the Devs got this one Backwards, make the Dagger build the Specialty Item that appeals to self described Gamers; the staff should be a viable option in the hands of any reasonably competent (not Elite) player.

couldnt have said it better; staff IS the iconic weapon of wizards/mages/sages, it should feel powerful, scary, overwhelming, epic……. not the “run around like a chicken casting some AoEs and hope for the best…oops did someone jump on you? might as well stand there cuz there isnothing much you can do, but run like a chicken” seriosuly…… make D/D THE support weapon and let staff be viable.

Also the self-blind UI is getting old too tbh……. Like Claudia said, we are not clairvoyants, we are no supposed to be looking into the future to decide whats coming next, maybe in a dungeon its ok, but in sPvP and WvW we dont really have a choice….

I want to have a viable weapon set first of all whichever it is then I will decide how I want to play it, not the devs and not the players will tell me how to play if I want an offensive d/d and offensive staff both good in 1vs1 situations, then yes it should be allowed

You should have a representative from each profession with a list of possible topics to cover for each one, or at the very least you must have only people who really care for the Pvp in general and not follow their personal agenda, for this reason I’d love to see again the following people:

@Nero
@Vain
@Java

jportell.2197:

Arheundel.6451:

Oareo.1604:

I love that everyone thinks d/d ele’s are “gods of everything” I play a d/d ele and have played against the top d/d ele’s in NA. There’s nothing magical, in fact it gets predictable.

Yes d/d ele is very strong, and easy to learn. There are a lot of mediocre ele’s that seem strong to other mediocre players. But it’s just like a trap ranger. They are only OP if you are bad. At the top level they are fairly balanced.

Mesmer is the opposite. Most mesmers are easy to kill because they haven’t mastered the class. However a good mesmer makes a much bigger impact than a good ele.

Most people have never seen a good mesmer because it’s too challenging to be a FotM, while anyone can pick up an ele and do pretty well. Once enough mesmers get good enough everyone will be crying about them even though nothing has changed.

Anyone can pick a bunker build and do good, still have to see a single ele using arcane utilities rather than triple cantrip and cleansing water trait

Because when an ele doesn’t take those stun breaks they die quick to BS thieves/Shatter Mes/100B warr… and just about everything else… Plus the water trait line GM minor allows additional damage for each boon on you… So you are already giving yourself an advantage by having boons plus the extra damage from the trait…. It is just one of those things that works way to well together…

For example that minor water trait is something which should be given to the fire trait line, and about stun breaker, yeah you need to have at least 1, but 3 is overkill and unnecessary

Oareo.1604:

I love that everyone thinks d/d ele’s are “gods of everything” I play a d/d ele and have played against the top d/d ele’s in NA. There’s nothing magical, in fact it gets predictable.

Yes d/d ele is very strong, and easy to learn. There are a lot of mediocre ele’s that seem strong to other mediocre players. But it’s just like a trap ranger. They are only OP if you are bad. At the top level they are fairly balanced.

Mesmer is the opposite. Most mesmers are easy to kill because they haven’t mastered the class. However a good mesmer makes a much bigger impact than a good ele.

Most people have never seen a good mesmer because it’s too challenging to be a FotM, while anyone can pick up an ele and do pretty well. Once enough mesmers get good enough everyone will be crying about them even though nothing has changed.

Anyone can pick a bunker build and do good, still have to see a single ele using arcane utilities rather than triple cantrip and cleansing water trait

Laxuar.3504:

jportell you have right with the stacks of might.

Anyway i’m angry with anet because it is too many time that the mesmer is the best class with defensive and offensive skill and the warrior is useless.

You should ask for buffs on warrior rather than nerfs on mesmer, Anet will more likely listen to a well constructed post rather than another whining joke, you did start good with the trait suggestions, so there is no reason to end it bad.

First:
-Explain in your own words what’s wrong with warrior and how would you like to change it

Second:
-You must realize that skill level counts, try to understand if you did mistakes and if you can avoid them later, make a mesmer for example, play with it for a while and try to understand their weaknesses.
You need to know what each weapon for them can do:

greatsword= izerker to cripple you, illusionary wave to push/kd you
staff= chaos armor and chaos field, phase retreat
sword= blurred frenzy
pistol= daze bullet+duellist

Memorize the range, CD ( traited also) and effects of each skill…bam after a while you’ll start to get few wins against mesmers and you’ll get better eventually, also you could have a trait like this on warriors:

-cleansing adrenaline= remove one condition for each level of adrenaline when you use a burst skill (adept trait)

-edit- The only change which would benefit warriors would be the 3 boons rip on burst, as warriors got problems with boon stacking targets

lLobo.7960:

Its harder to learn the rotations, but after your fingers got used to it its easier than most classes.
The ammont of AoE, fields, and ground target skills (and the ammount of skills) means that you need to pay more attention on your rotation and CD than on your opponent (not saying that you can just face-roll, but kinda, yea).
Other classes need to pay more attention on the oponents so they dont miss their burst/defense or they are stuck with CD. Eles just have another big set of skills and diferent rotations and combos to go to, and nearly never need to stay on auto-attacks (again, after you get used to your rotations).

I think the props to GW is that, everything is easy to get it working, but most things get some extra effort to master it and make it really shine.

Other classes can jump from mele to range, changing their tactics on the fly, other classes can have mele/range combos (rangers-necros-warrior-thieves-mesmers) and thus is harder to fight them, an ele..once you know what weapon set they’re using they’re easy to counter.
Given the huge visual cue left by eles skills, it’s very easy to miss with them unless you time: CC-distance and enemy defenses, the idea that you go there and spamm kills on every attunement is simply ridicolous…I mean are we talking about wvwvw or high end pvp?

Yiyojin.3241:

Daishi.6027:

I think they about as OP as Phant mes. You’ll rarely win 1v1, but they will suck in team fights for life.

I do think their abillity to midigate damage AND THEN Heal to pretty much full with a heal that also midigates burst is a little OP. ONLY on the fact that a bunker should not outlast burst and end a fight with close to if not full HP.

As far as I can tell, they pretty much hard counter glass cannons and they only suffer in team fights.

Backstab can get it if set up properly, But I think Ranger needs more play against it, I know it’s not balanced for 1v1 but I kind of feel it’s like the ele situation all over again but with more sustain and less burst.

(and imho I never really thought eles were OP, but Rangers I did find much much more frustrating)

@Yiyojin

Just be happy that you counter most things and really only one maybe two things are a hard counter for you.

and sorry to say the ele part is a L2 kitten ue, but I’m sure you’ll learn how to fight them over time.

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Yea mate, now listen.
Ele
*DPS ele.. Is easy to kill.
*Bad eles.. Easy to kill.
*A bit tanky/bunker ele.. This is impossible to kill. why?
1: You should never burst him down at start when is is “fresh” 100%hp
2:Take him down to 60-70% hp then DPS him down.
-He has atleast 2 utilities to avoid DPS
-He has ton of skills to save him for DPS + dodges or destroy clones.
3: Even your partial DPS damage taken by him will be healed by his heals.
Even the full DPS he can recover from it.
4: Basicly ele has to survive your burst (That is not hard)
and then he can make you use utilities and slowly kill you.
In time you are ready for second or third DPS burst you are already without utilities, heals, CD-es.
Eles can neutralize your burst.
BOTTOM LINE, IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE YOU DIE.

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Rangers… When eles get nerfed or and mesmers, this will be next class in discussion for nerfs on forums.;)
Rangers are the most anti-mesmer class in the game.
Bunker Rangers.. I saw 1 fight against 3 people and he killed 1 or 2 of them when I came help. I was just wtf?
Rangers is the class I hope the most that gets nerffed.
For me is impossible to kill.

If is good ranger, Ranger will always win against mesmer.
This is matematic, they don’t need even to try.
And if they won’t kill, their pets will for them :P
You can’t try to kill pets or you get nuked down with short bow+ full combo.
You can’t turn back or side to them. They can force you to use utilities at begining of the fight.

HOW to describe their damage?
I would describe is as “slow” continiued burst until you die.
They don’t deal 9k with 1 hit bursts like thiefs.
They do c/o 800,800,800 per sec + pet’s + pets skills+ bleeds+ utilities if they use+ cond+ QUICKNESS.

So basically they should nerf eles, because you can’t beat below average eles going bunker while you can beat newb eles playing dps ( because of course you’ll die 10x faster against experience dps eles trust me), same story for rangers, because you can’t beat below average rangers..they should nerf them.
Guess you’re another of those mesmers who use the daze to land their burst, so that people can recover a sec later, lmao

eldain stenlund.4306:

Arheundel.6451:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Mackapacka.9462:

Eles are way to powerful atm, luckely u got nerfs inc
The reasons are the cc, hard to kill, heals, utilty and still maintain good dmg.

I dont like nerfs in mmos.

But i do hope you are right, and DD gets nerfed hard.
It will be SOOO much fun to see when their precious DD specc is nerfed.

“but but, iam not imortal anymore ?? i cant not troll 15 people solo and kill them slowly ??? "

hopefully the other weapons will come in more focus then and also fixed.

I strongly doubt a weapon set will be nerfed because it can be used against a bunch of newbs pve players in WvWvW, unless you personally wanna come and show me how you perform so great at r50 tPvP with D/D! Pls come and show me how much of a pro you are with d/d at that level

hmm.. no.. they will hopefully nerf DD because you get absolutely everything from it.
ALL boons. ALL survival. ALL mobility… everything. and you keep it constantly.

hmm.. no.. they will hopefully nerf DD because you get absolutely everything from it.
ALL boons. ALL survival. ALL mobility… everything. and you keep it constantly.The weight of the scale is on the wrong side.
TANK — DMG.
elemental should be on dmg side.

Again you talk like your typical wvwvw bunker with boon extension runes and cleric amulet, you can keep enjoy your wvwvw setting playing against full zerker warriors controlled by a 12 years old and think you’re cool, when you’re ready to show me this “all survival-tank-dmg” godly build…give me a shout and you’ll join a r40+ team and see how you play this “godly” build of yours..of course we’ll stream

And finally in case you missed it.. ele is supposed to have everything because they don’t excel in anything..as said by Anet devs

Next they begin discussing each class in the game, starting with Elementalist. Karl immediately notes that the class has only one real build in high-level play. It is a single build that can do quite literally anything it needs to, from bunkering a point to heavy DPS. This was somewhat deliberate, as the class was intended to be a jack of all trades but master of none. Naturally Arenanet wants to correct this by making other builds more viable.

The class is also known very much for its healing ability. Karl confirmed that is a design decision, and that the goal is for Guardian to be more capable of healing in small doses over time, but for the Elementalist to retain its burst healing.

Xeph pointed out that the combination of self-protection and heavy burst healing makes the class almost unbeatable one on one in the hands of a skilled player. Arenanet noted that they are considering increasing the cast time on the heal and also giving other classes benefits against target stacking boons like an elementalist can.

now you can keep trolling if you want….