The funny thing is that those fixes (lets be honest, we were to good) to elementalist will be enough for the bandwagon to choo choo away from our class and onto the next
Trap rangers, beware
Thx god!
I believe Anet has clearly stated that bunkers are here to remain, if anything the nerfs that you guys so much requested have affected only those eles ( like me) who were not running bunker ( and far what reasons? You do no dmg as bunker), so while the nerf on RTL is not the end of the world, it’s still an unnecessary nerf for eles who were not running bunker.
Anet has cleverly decided not go the “all nerfs” way with the bunkers because you know? the more you nerf bunker the less we can play balanced build as the survivability drop even more.
For me everytime I decided to use EA, I could expect at most 1.3k healing with a roll in water…now it’ll be around 500 HP healing…nearly worthless while bunkers still can heal themself for over 2k HP, if you nerf EA even more I’d have no healing at all from EA compared to bunkers…do you people get it or not?
Your nerf calls on bunkers only affetc bala build users….few of us don’t go running around with the 0/10/0/30/30 and neither use 3 cantrips like people as @Zoose who always acting all high and mighty while being a FOTM ele himself.
If you guys would be sensible enough, you could be asking for radical changes like base HP buff on eles and removal of water heals replaced by evasive water skills…but no instead you keep asking to simply nerf bunker which inevitably hit only eles who run balanced builds..what can I say? GG
I think the problem is Anet think ele is just slightly out of balance with the rest. When I think most people have the opinion that the ele is significantly OP and needed some fairly significant re-balancing. I still can’t work out if this patch buffed or nerfed the elementalist. I think its maybe the tiniest of nerfs??
So what does this mean? Well it means if you dont roll an ele then you have at least another month of playing against a class which basically is just an unfair advantage for your opponent. Its almost like a gear differential. I say an ele has full ascended gear whilst everyone else in in rares :P
I think the problem is that the developers know more than the players who in many cases are incapable of thinking logically, changing your gameplay “may” affect the way you see things…just maybe.
I stated many times before..if you were expecting the ele to be nerfed to the ground ..actually underneath the ground…you’d be sorry in the end, regardless of the nerfs Anet won’t make the profession completely unplayable just to please whiners on the forum .
Now go out there and enjoy the new content ^^
The system is still under test, as they explained rank got little to do with the way system run, as far as I know there is no way to tell what is your rating, therefore it’s hard to locate the exact problem..but I’m expecting improvements as the system become more and more polished, just have patience
I’m concerned myself that these balance changes are insufficient.
Hater’s tears are the sweetest!
If you thought eles would have been destroyed..you thought wrong as I predicted most of you got a nasty surprise…like buffs to other weapon sets and d/d skills slighty changed…and there is more to come, so stay there and wait ^^ LOL!
Hmmm…well guys
I have been asking for these changes on the focus for quite a long time…very long time ^^, finally they have increased both duration of fire shield and size of flame wall while comet travel even faster than before, furthermore fire aura now give mroe than simply burning..sweet..so rejoice!
Those minor nerfs really do nothing to the viability of balanced eles, if anything now the bunker eles will be slighty less survivable, I really like the 10% dmg reduction added to frost aura rather then simply giving it a flar nerf and again the minor nerfs do nothing to the viability of the d/d ele, if before you used to spamm frost aura at recharge…now you’ll have to think twice when to use it.
Aaannddd! Thx got for FIX ON STATIC FIELD, people were simply walking in it without getting stunned ( no stability used ), hopefully next patch they’ll fix gust which is broken also
All in all..ty devs for reading all the “Buff focus” threads lol
You guys should give the staff a chance, it does great in 1vs1 situations, sure a couple of skills need balancing( unsteady ground and gust) but other than that, the staff offer more support and damage than d/d..as long as you land the hits.
It’s better to train yourself in using different weapon sets and make them in different situations, don’t try to play staff ele as a necro would given its fast activation wells..but rather play a staff ele as you would with a trapper profession, with timing you can literally hit people with a 100% accuracy regardless of their build, mobile or not
Changes to the aura durations would do nothing to favour the whiners, if they were losing before it’s certainly not because of shocking aura and a rtl change would still means nothing as it was always supposed to be used as an escape so 5 or 10s more won’t change the outcome of a battle, I’d say these kind of changes would be due to knee jerk reaction and I believe Anet has gone past this now…
Yea, staff all the way in team setting. Awesome support and team utility.
But 1v1 with staff? No. Just no.
I only had problems with well players staff necros as the wells activate way too fast, other than that I have beaten consistently every other profession with the staff in 1 sv1, as I stated before the way to play staff is not to try to hit the enemy directly but rather force him to walk into you aoes, that’s why I can hit people with eruptio-lava font-ice spike quite easily
The strategy with staff is to let enemies walk into your aoe not trying to hit them with aoes, strifing enemies can be hit safely with lightning surge and then place a lava font in the direction they’re walking, this type of tactics allow a staff user to deal with single targets in 1vs1 situation while 1vs2 situations definetely a staff user would fare better than a d/d.
Finally against strong anti mele build users you may want to switch to staff when possible, too funny to watch all those trap rangers-shatter mesmer-necro wells spammer having no clue on what to do next when you’re actually not trying to hit them upclose
It’s possible to spike with a staff too and the huge bleed dmg from eruption+flame burst guarantee a constant pressure on the enemy…still I wish unsteady ground and gust would be changed a little, while the first is barely usable the latter really need some serious changes, the arc of range is smaller than shockwave so you need to be facing the enemy at 90 degree to hit them..quite bad
I haven’t seen terrible balancing done for eles since release, to be honest. Staff builds were good because of the old Evasive Arcana? Yes, but that’s because the old EA was beyond broken. The old EA needed to be fixed. If staff builds are no longer useful because of a broken trait, then the problem lies on the weapon itself.
So far, Anet has polished our MH Dagger and OH Dagger skills to near perfection. There’s almost no underpowered skill left in either of them, one or two possible exceptions aside. Now, all they need to do is to repeat the same for the remaining options.
Scepter is probably the easiest to make buffs for at the moment. The fire and air lines are strong, and so is Water Trident (which will probably even get a nerf) and earth’s auto-attack. That leaves them 2 skills from water and 2 skills from earth to make them more appealing.
Lol gl with that..personally I have been asking for changes on shatterstones since BWE1, created many threads on different forums…nothing has been done, all they need to do is to add proper damage ( 800 base dmg) to dust devil and shatterstone ( 1k base dmg with 10s CD) , with these changes the scepter would be gold
Mesmers do exist…they’re called politicians….
The GW2 community never cease to amaze me, kitten I’m still waiting for the famous
" Chicken is OP , nerf it!" , seriously nobody noticed how OP are those chickens near Divinity Reach?
Engineer… that’s what i’m doing in college lol
And design a stealth detector or use thermo-missiles to blow off any stealthed enemy
They need to tone down RTL to the level of normal dash skills (actual range is 1500 right now despite the tooltip saying its 1200 and affected by cripples and chills).
The next nerf that I would say is to be deserved is probably updraft cooldown or the knockdown duration and catnip synergy with traits.
After that they should buff the stupid scepter already.
Lol what? 40s CD is short?
Rather than improving trait for signet and glyphs…you make worst the the only good traits we have, because you assume every ele is a bunker..thx god you’re not a developerAnd let’s stop complaining about RTL ,an immobilize and the ele goes nowhere ….you haven’t got an immobilize ready? too bad learn not to spamm skills
Yes because every single profession in the game has at least 5 immobilizes that they can place every 15 seconds >.>
So you use all your CC without even watching the attunement the ele is in and without planning ahead or read the battle, no wonder people keep losing over and over.
You see?… nothing would change even if you’d double the CD of rtl, I can still time your CC and use my escape ( in the case I…cough cough..need to escape) accordingly.
With a staff I can time static field and plan ahead where to better place it so that you can’t avoid it, I time your defenses to use shockwave+lava font and more….paying attention to the ongoing fight is what matter in the end, spamming skills on recharge bring you nowhere
This isn’t about staff ele, its about D/D ele
And the air atunement is just simply too good, you can create a distance of 1000 between you and the enemy and all it takes is 1 button to close that gap no matter what conditions you have on you, immobilizes also don’t affect RTL mid way through the channel.You can say whatever you want to save face, but having doubt you play that many other professions for more than 200 hours before I’m only going to believe that your answer is, “KEEP IMMOBILIZING”.
So? A short bow thief can even go horizontally and truly lose you , an ele can only go vertically with rtl, you can block its pathway, follow him with a leap and immobilize him later.
Say what you want dude, let the game be dumbed down to your level but don’t try to use logic with this argument, RTL cannot be compared to skills like: infiltrator arrow, phase retreat, decoy and more.
If I want I can chase a RTL ele np with a staff and even focus! An ele cannot get away with RTL alone like a thief or mesmer can, even engineers can escape more easily.
That you like it or not a mele spec is supposed to have mobility, tough luck if you get outsmarted..get better!
Lol @Rookni
Are you trying to teach people how to play against an ele? Give it up , don’t even try dude, you won’t change their minds, “ELE IS OP” it’s all they know..can’t you see the way he talks to you? He calls you 12 years old for trying to help him…
I’d be a norn elementalist and drink ale all day long, when I’m not drinking ale I’d be outside hunting deers and boar, FREE MEAT IT’S ALL YOU NEED! After my meal..I’d go back to drink ale
They need to tone down RTL to the level of normal dash skills (actual range is 1500 right now despite the tooltip saying its 1200 and affected by cripples and chills).
The next nerf that I would say is to be deserved is probably updraft cooldown or the knockdown duration and catnip synergy with traits.
After that they should buff the stupid scepter already.
Lol what? 40s CD is short?
Rather than improving trait for signet and glyphs…you make worst the the only good traits we have, because you assume every ele is a bunker..thx god you’re not a developerAnd let’s stop complaining about RTL ,an immobilize and the ele goes nowhere ….you haven’t got an immobilize ready? too bad learn not to spamm skills
Yes because every single profession in the game has at least 5 immobilizes that they can place every 15 seconds >.>
So you use all your CC without even watching the attunement the ele is in and without planning ahead or read the battle, no wonder people keep losing over and over.
You see?… nothing would change even if you’d double the CD of rtl, I can still time your CC and use my escape ( in the case I…cough cough..need to escape) accordingly.
With a staff I can time static field and plan ahead where to better place it so that you can’t avoid it, I time your defenses to use shockwave+lava font and more….paying attention to the ongoing fight is what matter in the end, spamming skills on recharge bring you nowhere
Maybe one day we won’t have to hope, and instead will know what is coming in the patch a few weeks ahead of time.
PvP communities hate surprises, and Anet is chock full of them.
You can more or less predict what will happen…nothing too bad for the good players and nothing too good for the bad players, the first will adapt to the few changes and welcome the obvious buffs to other facets..the latter will keep crying as the changes won’t level the field in their favour.
But more than anything..changes are not permanent, that’s a concept that few realize
They need to tone down RTL to the level of normal dash skills (actual range is 1500 right now despite the tooltip saying its 1200 and affected by cripples and chills).
The next nerf that I would say is to be deserved is probably updraft cooldown or the knockdown duration and catnip synergy with traits.
After that they should buff the stupid scepter already.
Lol what? 40s CD is short?
Rather than improving trait for signet and glyphs…you make worst the the only good traits we have, because you assume every ele is a bunker..thx god you’re not a developer
And let’s stop complaining about RTL ,an immobilize and the ele goes nowhere ….you haven’t got an immobilize ready? too bad learn not to spamm skills
Maybe they have removed water heals and the ele base HP has been increased by 5k along with few inbuilt dodge skills like ice wall, burning retreat, maybe they have reduced execution time of dragon’s tooth and buffed shatterstone, maybe they fixed bugged traits, maybe they have buffed focus,signets and glyphs, maybe our elites are finally worthwile……yeah yeah I know I’m dreaming
sigh :-(….it will never happen unfortunately
1- Cosmic overlord
2 – God Tier
3 – Too good for this game’s standard tier
4 – Above average Tier
5 – Okay Tier
6 – Below Average tier
1.) Me
2.) Ele
3.) Mesmer
4.) Ranger
4.) Thief
4.) Guardian
5.) Engi
5.) Necro
6.) Warrior
The one and only warranted nerf against bunker eles would be to fix their condition removal . like said countless times before the pvp trinity of guild wars should be bunker>glass cannon, condition> bunker, glass cannon> condition.
If you nerf eles condition removal , wich is absurd as it is now playing one myself, you basicly keep everything that makes this skill setup viable for tanking burst but it opens them up to more condition builds other than necros with corrupted boon.
I completely agree on that D/D eles survivability is too good as it is now but that isnt because of the sustained heals but because of a kittenton of condition removal ontop of it.
If you take away the heals/tankability and leave the condition removal as it is you basicly solve nothing other than keeping eles somewhat good vs condition specs (that arent necros) while making them bad vs glass cannons , i dont see the point in that. I hope the dev´s make the smart decision and take some of our condition removal and actually try to establish some kind of PvP dynamic instead of nerfing yet another weapon set to oblivion.
What condition removal? Outside cleansing wave, d/d got nothing to cleanse conditions and not everybody run with 3 cantrips+30 water
From the wiki:
Grandmaster Trait:Cleansing Water
Remove a condition when granting regeneration to yourself or an ally.Huh? You’re talking about a trait like everybody use it, I was talking about the weapon set itself, there is almost no condition removal at all on d/d
the thing is looking at other bunker builds their condition removal just isnt as good.
like for example look at a bunker mesmer (granted mesmers have kittening good utilitys) they have null field and the boon/condi swap on lengthy cooldowns while attunement switching and evasive arcana dodges are semi spammable.Arguably bunker D/D or S/D eles perform great vs sustained and burst dmg atm, the sustained healing and condition removal and even some kind of burst healing via attunement switch/dagger5 (~4.5k). I just think our good condition removal coupled with the tools we have to avoid/reduce incoming burst (mistform, earth armor, shock aura ect) and the mobility is a bit over the top even if it comes at the price of dmg output.
Id just rather see a dynamic established where bunkers are just bad vs condition specs and so on (like i said in my first post) because then we can talk about further rebalancing. Destroying another weaponset(or better said build) completely doesnt solve anything in the long run.
As for the glasscannon D/D´s there isnt realy much to worry about since generally as a glass cannon you win with burst vs conditions not with cleansing and outsustaining and that is very well possible as an D/D ele.
Another thing id like to point out concering builds in general is: why are all the stun breaks cantrips? i get why obsidian armor and mistform have that effect but cleansing fires? Like shift atleast 1 stunbreak from cantrips onto arcanes to give more offensive D/D builds something to toy with .
Not at all….played against unkillable bunker engineers-thieves-rangers that perform much better than d/d ele, the thing is once you know how a profession play it’s easy to counter it…NO BUNKER ELE up this very moment has been able to survive against me and another decent player on any class, because there is no way the bunker can kill any of us…but a bunker mesmer and engineers can easily kill you off with clones spamming and confusion stack, just because eles are known for bunekr builds doesn’t mean they are the strongets bunker build: no CC, no de-capping capability and not enough dmg in general…you’re just a stationary target that can be easily killed if the 2 players got half-brain
Ohhhh?..so thieves can only be glass cannon..well then other professions can only be bunkers, case closed!^^
How laughable…from “everybody can play an ele and be a god” to " when you face decent eles"
Your entire being can be explained with this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
A glass cannon user complaining that he cannot beat a more balanced build…how original.
Glass Cannon
Game Term. Refers to a class of vehicle or sometimes a unit that has very high attack strength and sometimes long range but generally poor defense and low health as a result.
The general strategy for them is to either destroy the enemy before being attacked or hides behind other, stronger ally units.
The artillery unit in that game is great. But it’s a Glass Cannon, I only use it for defense.
Learn to play your favourite role before whining, it seems you lack knowledge on the all “different roles” setting.
The one and only warranted nerf against bunker eles would be to fix their condition removal . like said countless times before the pvp trinity of guild wars should be bunker>glass cannon, condition> bunker, glass cannon> condition.
If you nerf eles condition removal , wich is absurd as it is now playing one myself, you basicly keep everything that makes this skill setup viable for tanking burst but it opens them up to more condition builds other than necros with corrupted boon.
I completely agree on that D/D eles survivability is too good as it is now but that isnt because of the sustained heals but because of a kittenton of condition removal ontop of it.
If you take away the heals/tankability and leave the condition removal as it is you basicly solve nothing other than keeping eles somewhat good vs condition specs (that arent necros) while making them bad vs glass cannons , i dont see the point in that. I hope the dev´s make the smart decision and take some of our condition removal and actually try to establish some kind of PvP dynamic instead of nerfing yet another weapon set to oblivion.
What condition removal? Outside cleansing wave, d/d got nothing to cleanse conditions and not everybody run with 3 cantrips+30 water
From the wiki:
Grandmaster Trait:Cleansing Water
Remove a condition when granting regeneration to yourself or an ally.
Huh? You’re talking about a trait like everybody use it, I was talking about the weapon set itself, there is almost no condition removal at all on d/d
Pretty fun how ppl actually think thieves are so easy to play…thief is probably one of the hardest classes to play properly in tpvp that’s why you don’t see so many good ones around…apparently ppl base their judjement on hotjoin crap where everyone can pretty much kill everyone else with almost everything…. Spamming hs is one thing, but i don’t consider hs spammers at all, we can say thief has a really low floor skill just haste and spam hs…but ceiling is well above let’s say eles, with ele once you get into skill rotation you’re pretty much done and if you run valkirie you can make lots of mistakes and still survive (You know..mist form, rtl, op heals, vigor, regen and so on…), in high end pvp if you make one, just one, mistake with a thief you’re down…no matter what. Low floor? Yes maybe, aswell as pew pew or trap rangers or hb wars and so on…ceiling? Very very high…a thief needs to be really really good to match up even with mediocre eles, you know you can’t just go in steal.c&d.bs -> stomp, if you think so you never played a dps thief in paids and i suggest you to try running one with all this low skill floor and survive more than 5 secs in a paids team fight, really give it a try before talkin’ bullkitten
What kind of skill do you need to go stealth and land a 6k backstab? Well it’s pointless trying to reason with you…..
But it’s very very amusing how a thief come here and tell others that they’re bad players because they use loads of defensive utility and build set up to counter….lol…a newb friendly profession that can deal over 12k dmg within 1.5s while invisible, not only the same developers have admitted that thief is a very low skill cap profession compared to elementalist but also few months ago, thief players used to call nabs anybody who used to go in PvP without defensive builds including stun breakers , anybody who used to complain about thieves ( and still does) get quickly deemed as noob for not bringing stun breakers, basically thief players consider their profession legitimate because you can still survive by being forced in using extreme defensive set up…amusing.
Plus..want to compare RTL with shortbow thieves? I can’t surely teleport on top f the stairs from the bottom of the arc in Forest of Nifheel and neither I can teleport on top of the tower from the bottom, I can’t cover the same distance of a thief using his shortbow three times consecutively so I can’t catch a thief at all…as he can still go stealth, in wvwvw a short bow thief can outrun 20+ people where a rtl ele can’t
You complain about mistform? You forget: elixir S, endure pain, distortion and more
Sorry when I beat 1vs1 these r40+ mesmers/warriors/thieves ….with a staff where are my OP heal if I use soldier amulet and a single cantrip ?
sorry dude there are no low skill cap builds on ele or you suck or you don’t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0togRMEc_o
You’re delusional if you think an ele need to have healing power to beat a thief and there are very nasty surprises coming your way dude
The one and only warranted nerf against bunker eles would be to fix their condition removal . like said countless times before the pvp trinity of guild wars should be bunker>glass cannon, condition> bunker, glass cannon> condition.
If you nerf eles condition removal , wich is absurd as it is now playing one myself, you basicly keep everything that makes this skill setup viable for tanking burst but it opens them up to more condition builds other than necros with corrupted boon.
I completely agree on that D/D eles survivability is too good as it is now but that isnt because of the sustained heals but because of a kittenton of condition removal ontop of it.
If you take away the heals/tankability and leave the condition removal as it is you basicly solve nothing other than keeping eles somewhat good vs condition specs (that arent necros) while making them bad vs glass cannons , i dont see the point in that. I hope the dev´s make the smart decision and take some of our condition removal and actually try to establish some kind of PvP dynamic instead of nerfing yet another weapon set to oblivion.
What condition removal? Outside cleansing wave, d/d got nothing to cleanse conditions and not everybody run with 3 cantrips+30 water
Based on player performance and rate of success.
1 – Most hated profession
2 – Professions that kill me with no fail
3 – Professions I normally get killed by
4 – Professions I can beat…sometimes
5 – My profession1.) Ele
2.) Mesmer
3.) Ranger
3.) Thief
3.) Guardian
4.) Engi
4.) Necro
5.) WarriorI was gonna make a post but this guy did it for me. I agree with this entirely. Good post sir.
There! changed for both of you^^
I’m going to guess you play an Ele.
And I’m going to guess..you got beaten by eles over and over again…
Based on player performance and rate of success.
1 – Most hated profession
2 – Professions that kill me with no fail
3 – Professions I normally get killed by
4 – Professions I can beat…sometimes
5 – My profession1.) Ele
2.) Mesmer
3.) Ranger
3.) Thief
3.) Guardian
4.) Engi
4.) Necro
5.) WarriorI was gonna make a post but this guy did it for me. I agree with this entirely. Good post sir.
There! changed for both of you^^
mist form ress x2 , armor of earth x 2/4 (ress and stomp), mist form on downed state x 2 ( pair this with the above list) + sustained healing and damage.
Yes, it’s OP.
Not by themselves for sure ( aside the S/D bunker), but when you stack eles in a team up to 2 or even 3, yes, it becomes clearly OP.
Only skilled eles paired together are OP, but then again skilled players paired together are OP on every profession
Thieves in SPVP where culling issues are non-existent are absolutely fine.
Thieves in WvW where they can nail you for their burst, render for .5 seconds (if you’re lucky) before stealthing again due to culling issues are insanely broken and stupid.
Please clarify which area of pvp you are talking about, OP.
*inb4 elitists and ‘wvw isn’t pvp dawg’ bullkitten
Ha ty, that’s should explian why these thieves were able to stealth for so long
Both offensive and defensive a staff ele is far superior, sorry
Arena net is aware that eles are too strong. Has commented on this.
And informed us they are getting a (small ) nerf.Which is fair, they only need a small adjustment.
Ohhh…..you missed quite a lot of stuff, the devs have stated that ele got few strong aspects when using bunker build but in general there are a lot of weak stuff which will be buffed in return ^^, so yeah while bunker eles will get nerfed…the balanced eles will be buffed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0togRMEc_o&feature=player_detailpage#t=2344s
The only class getting close to balance is..ele, they nerfed the extreme burst of eles and now they’ll nerf extreme bunker builds, everything will affect positively the balanced eles..and this is good for the game, who need to worry now are those too used to extreme burst builds^^
All I see is Ele’s that think their op qualities are just their skill coming through the class, just like browser build thieves in hotjoins, and people who are complaining about Frost Armor which is legitimate. Every other source of Chill is perfectly fine. Frost armor is one button that doesnt require a target and puts max stacks of chill on a gs mesmer/sb ranger in a few auto attacks, which means for the regular person its still ridiculous.
One button, no target, lots of skill. Right? Eles require skill, right? LOL
Think this way..you should be grateful at least you’ve got the option to stop attacking to avoid being chilled to death…if I wanted I could chill you for much longer and more frequently in a far easier way while staying at ranged distance…with you completely unable to avoid the attacks^^, trust me..you’re lucky as you are now , see? some eles actually got an heart^^
There are a few different knobs we can turn in regards to AoE some of the bigger ones being:
Radius of the AoE
Frequency of the AoE Damage
Damage of the AoE
Max Targets of the AoE
Currently, some players causing the AoE are able to do more damage to one person while also controlling a portion of the field, compared to a player with single target damage.
In our balance discussions we always look at what these changes could do to PvE as well as PvP. Any changes we make will undergo a lot of testing, both internal and by our trusted alpha team. It is important to understand that we are not doing a blanket nerf to all AE’s or a dramatic adjustment of the damage AoE’s can do. There may be some cases where players can build for AoE damage, but are just not viable or other cases where AoE is clearly the dominate way to build, and as such the other builds get left on the side lines. Its these classes/builds that we are concerned about.-Jonhatan Sharp
Ironically the aoe nerf will eventually hit much harder shortbow thieves than any other build that can switch between single and multiple targets.
Mesmers/eles/necros/engis got no possible way to use single target builds on the contrary of the thief/warrior, I believe the OP and others will be left very disappointed by the upcoming changes
Where to start…
The damage output of s/f is higher than d/d although the skills are that much harder to land and damage is not equally distributed as in the d/d case, hence unless played quite strategically you may lose quicker on a s/f compared to d/d, and of course the lack of mobility make it so that s/f is not suggested for 8vs8 hot join or any situation where there is a zerg involved.
True an ele doesn’t lack the means to achieve perma swiftness but a sudden movement burst ( RTL) it favourable to quick movement therefore people go for d/d over focus but…..there are situations where s/f is best option
1) Fightning a ranged opponent
2) Fightning a static opponent
In the first case by using a well time magnetic wave against quickness rangers/engineers/unload thieves will guarantee a good dose of laughters ..for you, while swirling winds can buy you some time to recover
In the second case you’ve got fire attunement, against a static enemy who think to tank your dmg, you can make great use of flamewall and fireshield(used after flamewall as burning stacks in duration and not intentisty), at close distance you can’t miss with phoenix and dragon’s tooth, prior to your burst you can use gale quickly followed by flamewall – dragons’tooth-phoenix( which will hit before dragon’s tooth giving you 3 stacks of might)
I wouldn’t use the combo straight away but rather wait for the right time, of course this is easier said than done because s/f lack dmg outside the above mentioned combo and while arc lightning+lightning strike deal good dmg, it doesn’t happen fast enough, not enough pressure, reason why the base dmg on these two attack is quite low even with 2k power+, you’d normally total 2k dmg on a 2800 armor target..not a lot given the time required to reach that dmg.
Anyway by using a combination of defensive tools and small dmg source you can reach the time where the combo can be executed for devastating results, should the target survive the ordeal , quickly follow with frozen gust comet to crush any hopes of recovery, if all goes well after the combo you should have 9 stacks of might and with a soldier amulet your air attacks will total 3k, that should be enough to finish off the enemy.
In the end s/f offer greater versatility combat wise compared to d/d as you can fight both mele and range, the problem is ( and I believe this is for balance) scepter lack versatility in damage department compared to d/d and it also lack the roamer capabilities of the latter, the perfect use for s/f users is assault supporter where you can be of greater help compared to d/d eles
I doubt ( even if I strongly hope so) we will ever see improvement in the dmg department for water/earth scepter, should that happen the only difference between s/f and d/d will be the role covered , one as assaulter/support and the other as roamer/assaulter; in the meantime is you like to tag along a team I’d suggest to use s/f, you can quickly dispose of a single target while remaining at relatively speaking safe distances and not become an obvious target
About your build…
If you liek soldier amulet ( like me ^^) then I’d suggest to use fire traits, yeah the grandmaster traits are quite useless but we still got some good traits, as build I suggest to use : 20(III – VI)/0/10(III)/20(V -VII)/20(I -V) + 6 strength runes , your combo will have like 20% base increase and like 25% base dmg increase for when you’re outside fire ( for as long as burning last)
As utilities I’d suggest to use arcane wave – arcane shield – mist form, you’ve got enough condition removal, enough defense and outstanding damage.
A MMO community should be considered as a small example of the society, I bet most of you got experience of situation where few individuals where able to change the general consesus of the masses for their own personal gains.
What happen on a MMO forum is not much different, when dealing with balance few people propose ideas and suggestions which would benefit nobody more than themselves, these people stir the crowd by using the momentum, a previous lost fight a lost tournament maybe, anything that can be used to change your mind for the worst.
Balance changes are necessary to maintain a fun environment for everybody and we’re all agree on that!But these few individuals care not for this principle and only to push their own agenda, how to recongize them?..it’s easy
Try to give them a counter proposal and see if you an answer.
E.G:
- Player A = AoE attacks in this game are too strong!
- Player B = Ok I understand..shall we give more single target options and less aoes?
- Player A =…..Aoe attacks in this game are too strong!
- Player B = so..what about my suggestion?
- Player A =…..AoE professions in this game are OP!
- Player B =…….
See what I did here? If you try to give a reasonable change, an alternative, you receive no answer because these few indiduals do not care of having a healthy game where everybody can choose their own way of having fun, they only care on their own way of having fun and anything which hinders it…must be removed, and to do that they’ll “appeal” to you, who maybe got killed by an aoe and while you had no extreme thoughts of removing aoe from the game since that moment, they will manipulate you toward such extreme way of thinking in the end.
Beware of such individuals, next time you join a discussionn about balance , post a simple question for the original poster: “Ok we can remove this but add this other thing in return, what aobut it?”…see if you get answer back…
For further reference I link this thread ( which of course has been ignored )
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Players-concerned-with-balance/first#post1465137
Looking at Mesmers. They can duel, they can team fight. You have to be really stupid to not understand how imbalanced this class’ mechanics are. You’re telling me turtling based on blurred Frenzy’s cool down is so hard in a duel? You’re telling me getting a shatter off in team fights is hard? Apply what you learned as a Mesmer on a class that takes effort, chances are you’re going to fail.
If you want to play glass cannon GS warrior hero and still charge head down in a zerg fight..you deserve to be bursted down, if you want to to charge in a zerg fight..you don’t build glass cannon.
But hey why don’t you propose to change D/D ele and mesmer aoes to single target skills which of course will deal more dmg? So shall we change ele aoe to single target skills with more dmg? …oh boy I gonna back you up all the way if you suggest that
So here is a design principle for MMOs that ANET designers failed hard:
You cannot let AOE class/build to be comparable or stronger than single target class/build in 1v1 and then let AOE dmg scale linearly (5x dmg on 5 targets) for team fights.
AOE class/build needs to be slightly weaker than single target class/build in 1v1 and slightly stronger in team fights (only achievable through diminishing returns on multiple targets of AOE dmg)./discuss
According to who? Horrible PvP MMOs like WoW?
AoE has drawbacks like delays before activation (compare Dragon’s Tooth to Newb Seeker), aiming (skillshots), longer cooldowns, and they already do less damage than zero skill newb classes like thief.
If anything, AoE is weaker than it should be in GW2 because of the sPvP game design focusing on holding tiny little shoe box sized capture points.
According to who WHAT?
Do you disagree with the principle?
Or do you disagree that d/d elementalists and shatter mesmers violate the principle?Details you mention comparing skills and stealth etc are irrelevant. All of that is already encompassed into 1v1 strength. Do you think d/d elementalists or shatter mesmers are weak in 1v1 against single target dmg classes?
D/D ELE AND SHATTER MESMERS HAVEN’T GOT A SINGLE TARGET SKILL COMPARABLE TO HEART SEEKERS SPAMMERS, GET YOUR FACT STRAIGHT!
Thieves lacking aoe dmg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlWzXy1ZQVI&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=39Thief single target dmg +aoe dmg in a single build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYZ_fBP8TmIAnd all this is nothing much a small fraction of what thief does
Are you serious?
wvw and hotjoin videos. Hotjoin video is from oct15 before thief aoe got 15% nerf. LOL
Thief aoe 15% dmg nerf lol?
Ele aoe has been nerfed by 30% before launch, meteor storm-eruption-lava font..all of them …and here again a thief complaining, but hey you can remove the aoe from eles and give them all single target skills but with the same dmg coefficient of thief skill, would that fix your " problem"?
P.S To the moderators!
Every day there are dozen more of nerf ele threads popping out and started from the same people over and over again, every thief nerf thread get closed and people get redirected to the theif sub-forum..but here there are currently like 10 threads asking for nerfs on eles, do we really need more?
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
Aoe dmg is the only counter to stealth spammers, when Anet will re-desing stealth to work like in other games then we’ll talk about aoes, in other games stealth professions cannot bot stealth every 2s making impossible to target them.
In other games you’re allowed to stealth for a sneak attack and then can only re-stealth outside combat.
In the profession description is clearly stated that stealth professions can be countered..and the OP is a backstab thief( check his previosu posts), he’ just whining about counters to his stealth spamming while calling noobs aoe class users and pro those who play stealth spammersSorry but you are going into unnecessary details that obscure the issue.
The crux of the issue is this:
Despite the stealth mechanic, everyone knows d/d elementalist is stronger 1v1 than d/d thief for example (at the same skill level).
Then elementalist’s dmg scales up to 5x in group fights and d/d thief’s does not scale at all.
That is simply ridiculously bad design.You want to derail discussion into discussion on ‘fairness’ of this or that mechanic, but that is actually irrelevant. If thieves even with stealth still lose to d/d eles in 1v1 at the same skill level, then obviously it is irrelevant to discuss each individual skill and mechanic. Result is what it is, and it is wrong.
You should stay on topic and not try to derail it with irrelevant details. I know you want to protect the insanely bad design of your class, but that is not good for the game.
You should really discuss the principle and if you agree or disagree with it. Everyone knows that shatter mesmers and d/d elementalists violate the principle.
Really?
Shatter mesmer are glass cannon and a d/d ele doing dmg is not a bunker and his HP reach 20% after a single backstab+heart seeker…the bunker d/d deal max 800 dmg with ring of fire and not d/d doesn’t win automatically against thieves…maybe the common BS spammer but that’s hardly the only thief build and it’s not for 1vs1 either, there is the sword/pistol build played by many thieves who got no troubles against d/d ( the hot join ones)
JUst uploaded videos of shortbow thief and pistol thieves along with aoe attack like death blossom, this skill is not aoe am I right? and what about caltrops aren’t those aoe as well?
Thieves lacking aoe dmg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlWzXy1ZQVI&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=39
Thief single target dmg +aoe dmg in a single build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYZ_fBP8TmI
And all this is nothing much a small fraction of what thief does
Aoe dmg is the only counter to stealth spammers, when Anet will re-desing stealth to work like in other games then we’ll talk about aoes, in other games stealth professions cannot bot stealth every 2s making impossible to target them.
In other games you’re allowed to stealth for a sneak attack and then can only re-stealth outside combat.
In the profession description is clearly stated that stealth professions can be countered..and the OP is a backstab thief( check his previosu posts), he’ just whining about counters to his stealth spamming while calling noobs aoe class users and pro those who play stealth spammers
The only skill which I can live with atm is static field, I can find some partial use when blcoking gateways and forcing enemies into staying in the red circle, other than that gale need a buff asap, I can wait for a fix on US, but gale too UP
I think we will end up with nerfs to evasive arcana (30 second internal cd instead of 10) . This could well be coupled with a minor increase to RTL cd and a slight nerf to soothing mist.
I dont think this is enough. But it would be a start at least and maybe the meta could then develop.
Just remove the ele profession and you can develop the meta even quickier
Someone afraid once they finish with ele…they start with bunker guardian haha
I remember the list where us elementalists were bottem tier lol
I remember when people were laughing at me for running an ele way back in August/September, rofl
Only way to guarantee a fire grab hit is to literally “kiss” your opponent, in the sense that you need to stay face to face to land the burst skill at 100%, choose any other way and you better pray to land that burst
Why don’t we just move some bunker abilities to the focus (cleansing wave mainly) and make the off dagger better for dps (adding some kind of other heal to water 5 dagger that is not a 2.5k heal)? Then bunker eles will use the focus which has 0 movement skills but good bunker skills and the off dagger is now a movement weapon with good damage skills
+100
When will you apply for the game developer position at Arena net?
I swear to god that I’m not joking, yes pls give the cleansing to the focus and give maybe daze or an evasive water based skill similar to ice wall for the OH dagger, for god sake Anet pls give healing to these warriors so they can play WoW paladin and give evasive skills to the ele + more dmg, PLS!