Guild Wars 2

Atoss.1056:

That Grenth elite is op, perma chill and poison in 1 skill.

I wouldn’t say its overpowered, it only ticks every 3 seconds, can be kited and is in a small radius. You have to be on the target 100% of the time. Plus its a 180second cool down for a max of 15 seconds of Poison and Chill at base and like 21 seconds with 40% added duration and again assuming you are on the target(s) 100% of the time so when it procs.

I mean every condition based build on other classes have much better class elites that is is rarely used – in fact i have ONLY seen it used by Human Elementalists and no one else. With that in mind, It is rather balanced.

It is strong but the fact it is only used by 1 build/class says it all really, that is only because Elementalists have NO condition based Elite or an Elite that helps in this sort of build, other classes have Elites that are useful in ALL builds, we are very limited with some of the worst in the game.

For Ele, i would like Duel Condition based Pistols. Though that being said, this should NOT happen – Why? Because they can’t balance the weapons as it is with many classes having weapons that are just not viable or worth using – why add more to the list?

Wait until they get the weapons balanced (if that ever happens) and then see what can be done, currently it is rather pointless adding more weapons when so many classes have weapons that are just not used because they are no where near as strong as other options.

Still kind of wanting to change Perplexity but just not sure what i could try :/
My latest roaming Video: http://youtu.be/GieXgGnX1Bs

Dolores.5471:

I will not argue with you about the triggering chance because I think you should just redo your tests… Same goes to your statement about weakness.

The way I see it your suggestions take us to two places:

A) the glyph being as useful as blinding ashes.

B) the glyph being out of control aoe confusion/torment.

I would be happy to retry the tests it has been a few months since i last tested it but we will see.

A) The difference being that 1 Blind every 5 seconds is terrible. Burning, Chill Confusion or Torment every 5 seconds would be very good, of course better for condition builds but i think it would be worth it for condition builds, currently its just “meh”

B) That can easily be fixed and adjusted. They could adjust it so that it can only proc on X number of people (normally 5) when it procs, so it would proc on the main target and others around that target within a reasonable radius.

No one wants it to be so insanely broken that it becomes a “i win” button pretty much like what Signet of Spite is, i would just like ele to be given a little bit more access to conditions, we (at base – no traits, gear, runes anything) have TWO damaging conditions. I think an increase to that would be beneficial both to condition eles but other builds as well giving them other options.

Dolores.5471:

25% chance ON HIT is just fine considering the speed and the amount of skills a d/d ele can put out, it has 6 seconds BASE duration for weakness and 5 for cripple , which is already larger than the icd + your condi duration food/gear. It lasts for 30 secs and has 45 sec cooldown, meaning you’ll be able to use it again every 15 secs, the icd is PER TARGET so minions, pets, clones, etc won’t ruin your party and on top of that it’s a stun breaker. How is that not good enough?

You want to turn it into an overpowered skill, think about it, if people already complain of 3 stacks of confusion in 25 secs icd how would they feel about it triggering every 5s? Additionally raising the proc to 50 or 100%(!!!!!) would make it more powerful than many sigils or entire runesets. Condi eles could use some love for sure, but it has to be something reasonable.

Yeah, so you will have to on average hit with 4 attacks to proc it once, which if luck isn’t on your side still won’t be enough. Now for Cripple you have to remember that several classes have traits to reduce Cripple duration. You are again making assumptions that it will proc the 6 times, i have NEVER had it proc 6 times on any test i have done with it.

The Stun break is SO useless, like it has NO use what so ever, you will want to use it as soon as you can in the battle, so the Stun break is wasted SO many times.

Overpowered? How exactly is adding Confusion and Torment to a class that lacks conditions. You are AGAIN making assumptions – tip it would ONLY proc 100% every 5 seconds if the proc chance was 100% – its not. It is 25%. Sure the stacks and duration could be adjusted.

Their are several ways they could add the new conditions, change it to 50% chance and still have it balanced. They could increase the ICD a few seconds, maybe make it go on cool down like Burning Ashes does so it goes on cool down as soon as it procs rather than per a target.

25% chance with some rather average conditions is simply not enough, I have not once encountered a situation where i thought “wow, i would totally have won that had i had more access to Weakness”

the Burning is average, nothing amazing. Same goes for the Chill and the Immobilize (imo) is the worst part. The duration on the Weakness is pretty much the only thing that is decent about it, i would rather be taking hits and then taking damage through Confusion seeing as i run very high toughness already.

Dolores.5471:

Because he could be using a glyph that provides perma weakness or cripple, you’ve already put little pressure on him, imagine if you had weakness on all the time? Or if you couldn’t run away from him? Condi builds already run enough thoughness in my opinion, the immob on the glyph is nice, but as we saw, he didn’t even needed to use it…. I just think that for roaming you could pick a better utility.

If you are talking about Glyph of Elemental Power, its not “perma” It is 6 seconds but that is 6 seconds every 5 seconds (assuming it procs right away) and with a 25% proc chance, that is unlikely. Overall, it is a VERY poor glyph.

Lets assume that it is 100% on chance with a 5 second cool down that is 6 procs. 6 seconds per a proc, that is 36 seconds of weakness total which sounds decent. However, remember that is it only a 25% chance and on average using Air i have gotten no more than 5 procs with 4 being the average in tests that i have done with it, so lets round that 36seconds down assuming an average of 4 that becomes 24 seconds.

To me, that is not worth it, while an extra condition is nice the way its applied just doesn’t work.45 second cool down for a skill that procs 4 maybe 5 times just doesnt seem worth it, they could buff this skill and actually make it worth using – 100% chance or at least a 50% chance would be a welcome start.

They could also remove the stun break (its pointless anyway!) and buff it that way. Maybe remove Immobilize and replace it with Torment, maybe even think about swapping Weakness out for a few stacks of Confusion as well would be very much welcome.

Wikie.2610:

the earth signet is actually pretty awesome free toughness who can complain but it provides immobilize when you need it so why he should get rid of it Dolores?; o

I don’t get it for the Immobilize, i use it for the Toughness and rarely will i activate it. It being an “Earth” signet and the Earth attunement about defense (the passive) i think the active could have been something more useful, Maybe a “weaker” version of Signet of Spite in that inflicts some conditions would have been nice Some Bleeding, Cripple and Torment would have been very welcome.

Don’t get me wrong Immobilize is decent, just not something that amazing when so many classes have ways to get out of it fast or use skills that make them immune to damage while having it on them.

Something like:

Signet of Earth:
Passive: Improve Toughness
Active: Inflict Bleeding, Cripple and Torment on your target
Cripple: 5 seconds
Bleeding 5 stacks, 5 seconds
Torment 5 stacks, 5 seconds
Cast time: 1/4second
Cool down 60 seconds

Dolores.5471:

I guess you’ll be paying attention to the burns and the bleeds from now on….
What a delightful turnout of events!
Congratulations Ash.

BUT

Get rid of that godkitten earth signet! And don’t forget to make use of your wind 2 skill when you’re fighting burst builds.

I can’t i love Earth Signet too much, even without being in Earth attunement i have more than 2,100Toughness with it, its great. It was a decent fight, i did not use some skills that i normally would, Ele isn’t that much of a threat with burst most of the time, i use it more on Warriors and Thieves

Dahir.4158:

Seeing that elite skill in action makes me question my decision on making a sylvari .

Then again… I do have seed turrets.

I am SO glad my ele is a Human, with my old specs i would laugh at Reaper of grenth but as a condition build, it is SO good, works great in pretty much all situations as well from duels, solo, groups and zergs

It is in my opinion better than all the class elites, they all have issues that make using them a bit either pointless (Tornado in about 99% of situations) or they just lack that something like FGS, it says a lot i see people using it MORE to escape a fight than they do to be offensive with…

Dolores.5471:

Reaper of Grenth is the gift that keeps on giving.

Yep, ties the build i use together very well. I have some times wished i could be another race but remember that Reaper of Grenth is SO good that the little gain i would get from being another race.

Dahir.4158:

Ash, destroy him

I’ll let the video show the fight.

I ran Condition food, duration and damage. Wikie ran -duration and precision. You can pretty much see what else she was running as its all signets.

Here is the fight: http://youtu.be/WcHB-_I76V4

Luimes.4281:

The only and the only one thing condi eles are DECENT at is dueling.

all the rest is just: HAHAHHAHA CONDI ELES

I run roaming, i have several videos of me roaming as well showing solo, out numbered and group fights as well, that is if you are actually interested or just like saying they are bad.

Dahir.4158:

Ash, destroy him

Their really isn’t any reason he should lose. Depending on the class he will bring, he will know exactly that i am Condi based so if he comes Ele he would likely take Diamond Skin for example. Not quite sure what his other characters are. He can change traits/food and such to be anti condition based.

Wikie.2610:

if your servers are battling Gandara I’m down to duel could be spvp but since some of you claim amulet options dire set or whatever are thaaat important for condi ele builds might as well be wvw

Well, look at that…I am facing Gandara this week ^^
I’ll duel you in WvW
Im on Piken.

Wikie.2610:

ok I agree thats a valid point I do much less WvW than tpvp and condi eles arent that common in any of those so my experience with fighting them is limited but still I feel like going for condis is kind of gimping yourselves :/

Wait until you have actually faced them in WvW before saying they are terrible, you can’t say they are bad based on a bad mode that limits you SO much.

Wikie.2610:

ah yeah right forgot about bleeds and the ones from runes and sigils…and why did I forget?….because I dont have to even worry about them as condition eles are crap… never lost 1v1 to a condition ele, or a dagger ele for that matter, whether its WvW or spvp…(dont counter this with the claim its about teamplay as you kitten right know necros and engies conditions are better at it)
so why wasting your potential on something so laughable as a condition ele and wasting your rune and sigil space for conditions…
you can say that I probably havent met decent ones but I play around 10 tpvp matches a day and sometimes some wvw few times a week and never ever I saw any that were even slightly challenging I could prolly even win by random skill and attunement buttonmashing lol just to prove a point

Luimes pretty much summarized this topic:

HAHA LOL CONDITION ELE"S

What server are you on? I’d be happy to have some duels with you. Just because (as you say…) you have beaten Condi eles, that doesn’t mean that Condi ele are bad, they just require certain builds and playstyles to get the most out of them.

I have faced quite a few condi eles on mine and while some are decent the builds most of them use (mostly Signet builds) just don’t work. I wouldn’t even comment on the S/TPvP part as they are just simply not viable in that broken and boring as hell mode, tried and it just can’t be done due to the stat options. No dire option really hurts Condi Ele.

So you consider it a “waste” if people play unconventional builds that they actually have fun playing? this game is meant to be about fun. Hell, i got laughed it in my guild when i joined them and they found out what my build was – yet now several of them are trying the same build type that they laughed at me about.

I mostly roam and have a lot of fun doing it, i CAN beat pretty much any build and have only encountered ONE that i simply can’t beat which could just be down to the players gear.

You can NOT compare Condi ele from S/TPvP to that of WvW, in WvW they can be a real threat to anyone. S/TPvP is SO limiting on build options that it shouldn’t even be considered when judging if a build is good or not. I WvW everyday on my Condi ele the most important thing is – I have fun.

the amount of players that have raged at me for beating them does give me a smile every time.

Some fights i have had with my Condi ele in WvW: http://youtu.be/4SpCJxrRNGY

Dolores.5471:

You understand this would completely break the skill right? We’re talking aoe confusion/torment at a very short per target icd, so yeah, no. The glyph is fine as it is.

An easy fix just make it so that its 5seconds per a target. Then AoE wouldnt be able to trigger it on everyone. The glyph as it is, is NOT fine.It is HUGELY lacking.

Wikie.2610:

Dahir.4158:

Wikie.2610:

Dahir.4158:

I don’t get the joke. What’s funny? Condition eles are good

“Condition eles are good” <-this is the funny part

They are. Have you played one before?

nope but I played against some of those few times and my sceptre fresh air burst ele just wrecked em without any trouble
the thing is the fact that you can do it doesnt mean you should as there are plenty of other ele builds which perform way better in pvp

condition necros and engies perform nicely in pvp because they got kittenload of damage conditions to apply whereas with ele it is just mainly burning so all that condition damage stat you stack for conditionalist build or whatever you call it is going to waste on just burning when instead you could get more other stats to for example enhance all of your damage instead of just burning

So you base them being “bad” on an incredibly poorly design game mode (S/TPvP) have you faced them in WvW? I play one in WvW running solo, in groups and duels and i win way more than i lose, i have only encountered 1 build/person that i just cant beat and that is Axe/Shield and Bow warrior

Atoss.1056:

GoEP has 25% chance to proc on hit with 5sec icd.

That is poor. It is need of a serious buff.

what i would change to make it actually WORTH using:

fire: Burning 5 seconds an increase to 5 seconds up from 3 seconds would be a nice buff but nothing that would be really overpowered

Water: Chill 3 seconds a 1 second increase on chill would be nice, again i don’t think it would be anything really overpowered in the change or anything.

Air: Change to confusion, this would be a interesting change – condition builds would love it but i think all others wouldn’t like it. I think 3-4 stacks for 5 seconds would be reasonable.

Earth: Change to Torment, while Cripple is nice, a change to Torment would be very welcome. 5 stacks for 5 seconds would be a reasonable change, would be around 1,500damage on moving targets with a normal non-condition build.

Duration: 30 seconds
Skill cool down: 45 seconds
Proc chance: 50% chance on hit.
ICD: 5 seconds.

I have a Razer Naga – I have Fire attunement set to the scroll wheel, water to the button just below it and Air set as the next one down with 10 on the mouse button pad set to Earth, it works so well and i love it, great mouse.

I just wish the game had its controls set as character bound rather than account bound, such a poor decision.

Dolores.5471:

I personally think signets are a waste in our build, they’re single target, have long cooldowns and don’t really add anything that my weapon skills cannot do (magnetic grasp might be a mess of a leap but it does immob in a much shorter cooldown compared to signet of earth). You should consider changing it for a conjured weapon or another utility that actually adds to the build.

Signet of Restoration is our best heal as D/D in my opinion, works great with Diamond Skin and most condition builds as well, i just wish we didnt have to keep spamming skills just to get the heal.

Signet of Earth is also very good, very nice amount of Toughness and that pushes mine back 2,100 and the immobilize is very welcome as well, though you have to time it just right and its mostly useless on warriors

Though i use these more for the passive bonus than the active one so i rarely use Signet of Earth, Restoration i do if i really need it. I would never waste a slot on a conjured weapon. They are currently nothing but a equip use one skill and then drop and forget. I would take Signet of earth over any of the Conjure skills because they are just not worth it currently, the duration isn’t too bad but the limited number of uses and it being affected by auto attacks makes the utility conjures worthless in most situations.

Grimreaper.5370:

D/F + perplexity is win, try hyrdo sigil + battle. Use Glyph of elemental Power in water attunement. You’ll be chilling your target left and right while they have nothing but crappy auto attacks. 2 points in fire means .5 more seconds of chill from both every time they proc too.

Elemental Power is a wasted slot. It procs 4 maybe 5 times depending on the attunement you use after activating it. I have tested it with various weapons, different attunements and different skills. It has never procced more than 5 times and for something on a 45 second cool down, that simply isnt enough.

The ICD or what ever it has seems to be broken as well, i have had it proc twice within seconds and then not have it proc again for 10+ seconds.

Dolores.5471:

CONDIMENTALISTs are effective if you run the right build, I mean, I see people trying signets, elemental surge, the freaking FGS…… That just doesn’t work.

I use signet of restoration and earth. Elemental surge and FGS just dont work.

Rayti.6531:

-SNIP-

Bugged? How so, can’t say i have really noticed anything bug wise when it comes to the Runeset. I would like to try something else, unfortunately i just dont see it being viable currently.

perplexity has very solid uptime and has great damage, getting 2k ticks with it is really good, something that i dont think other runesets can really offer currently.

I run Human myself, Reaper of Grenth is such a great Elite, i find it the best Condition Ele can get. I mean FGS could be decent, i just don’t really like it myself it just seems better as a “run away” option

Dolores.5471:

-SNIP-

Yeah, currently Perplexity just out does everything else by such a big margin it just doesn’t seem really viable to lose the new condition and the rather high damage it does, getting 2k ticks from it are SO nice.

Grevender.9235:

-SNIP-

Sure it is not as great as it is on other condition builds but that isn’t to say its by far the best option for Condi Ele currently. I roam a lot on my ele and it works great. I have only found one build of one player that just destroyed me no matter what i did – Axe/Shield and Bow Warrior just nothing i could do against it no matter what i did, Everything else i can win if i play right.

I actually disagree, i find myself doing a lot better on my Condi build than i did on other builds, I having my built perfect that i can counter Direct damage (unless Axe/Shield – Bow warrior -.-) as well condition builds with just a few trait changes.

Dolores.5471:

-SNIP-

I think only D/D works, I have tried various different weapon sets and none are up to the standard of D/D. Scepter has a GREAT auto attack but everything else it has is lacking, the Fire skills which are just as important are weak – the Fire on auto is meh, low Burning access as well. Focus is very weak as well, it like 2 skills that good in earth but everything else is poor. The Staff is another poor weapon for conditions.

I actually run D/D solo, small groups and zergs and it works SO well, you have to go in do your stuff and then get out fast. I will normally use my Reaper of Grenth is SO useful in these sort of situations as well.

Hactid.6253:

LOL a necro complaining about not having enough condition, you seriously can’t be serious about this

Pretty much this. Don’t they have access to every condition in the game? Now that Fear Interrupts they could have Confusion as well. they have great access to conditions already, why do they think they need the BEST access to every condition that is in the game….

Yeah i am stuck with perplexity which is a real shame, they could have really improved some of the other runesets and made it a hard choice between what ones to use, currently Perplexity, even with limited Interrupts is just too strong and too important.

The bigger problem i thought with Krait was just how weak the conditions were, they should have made it something like:

when you use an elite skill, you inflict bleeding(3 stacks), torment(3stacks) and poison and for 10 seconds to nearby foes. (Cooldown: 90 seconds)

This would have been pretty solid especially with Reaper of Grenth Elite.

So i am wondering what your condition eles are running for Runets? I am still running my Perplexity but wondering if i could manage to change it. It just kind of sucks just how important Perplexity is. The fact its a new condition and the damage it does is very good.

Flame Legion seems a decent option. 175 Power, 10% Burning Duration, 25% chance to cause 1 second of burning (10second ICD) and 7% Damage to Burning foes.

The things i dont like about it – 1 second Burning every 10 seconds is like 100damage, if that depending on the build. I run with around 2,000Condition damage when fully buffed. Would have 50% burning duration which would be okay the 6/6 i don’t like – i have NO power on any of my gear currently so this wouldnt be that big of a buff.

Really disappointed that Torment runeset got barely a change at all. It needed a chance on hit added as 4/6 and the 6/6 needed to be buffed. Krait could be better as well.

cheshirefox.7026:

see attachment
problem solved, also leave elemental attunement as it is and move it to the grandmaster bracket as a quip to all the keyspamming boon junkies who conformed to arena net’s horrible vision of what elementalist should be

This would be a stupid and simply broken change, it would be nothing more than a huge nerf. We’re trying to find ways of making it so that ele aren’t so reliant on Arcane trait line – Elemental Attunement is a HUGE part of the classes defense. Moving it up to grandmaster would limit the builds even more and make the class weaker.

1) Make Elemental Attunement part of the class mechanic
2) Make the current Elemental Attunement apply it to allies

3) Combine Lingering Elements with Arcane Fury
4) Add new 3 point trait

5) Move Arcane Precision to Grandmaster slot and change proc chance to 50% on a hit.
6) Move Elemental Surge to Grandmaster Minor

As for making the attunement cool down 10 second by default, it would leave us needing something for Arcane Power Line. Something they could do:

Introduce a class mechanic that buffs a specific stat while in a certain attunement. For example:

Fire: Power Increase
Air: Ferocity Increase
Earth: Condition Damage Increase
Water: Healing Power Increase

Then make it so that the Arcane Power trait line buffs these stats further. Thinking something like a standard 100stat increase at base and a 25point stat increase for every point spent in Arcane Power?

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

ok if that happened this is what it would do:

Goes tornado with a tanky build – knocks everyone off point, reflects projectiles and melee classes can’t come close because well… y’r a tornado. Only thing able to hit you then are aoe’s but hey y’r tanky and have extra toughness.

The projectile reflection would only happen with Debris Tornado and would only last a certain number of seconds with an ICD. Thinking something like a 3 second duration, 9 second cooldown.

It would still be easily removed/corrupted by by several classes – Corrupt Boon for example, Spinal Shivers. Their are plenty of ways for the stability to be removed. This is more of a WvW change but it could be adjusted slightly to make it so its strong but not overpowered for S/TPvP for those poor souls that like torture.

You go with a tanky build you wont be killing anyone, would it really be worth knocking people off a point once every 150seconds…

This change would make using the skill especially in WvW viable not and an instant kill marker thanks to the fact you get no added toughness or anything.

Erm – No thanks. While changes need to be made – this isn’t one of them. they should just make Elemental Attunment into the class mechanic but make it affect only the ele with a Master trait that makes it affect allies.

this way the ele will still have Elemental Attunement without the need to go 20 into Arcana and will still have the option of making it affect allies (thus no change) with a trait. However those of us that run quite a bit in Solo could then have the option to move a few points around. Combing Lingering Elements with Arcane Fury and creating a new 3point trait would be quite great as well.

Currently, going 4 at least into Arcane Power line is pretty much a must of most, if not all Ele builds builds as the Regen and protection help SO much with our survivability

They could also make it so that attunement swap is 10seconds all the time and that Arcane Trait line affects something else, i wouldn’t go with your change personally. This being if you are anything higher than 4 you will only have 2 of the 3 point traits in other trait lines without having a terribly weak build.

With it being about Arcane Power, maybe it could be used to increase the effectiveness of Arcane skills?

for example. Every 2 points into Arcana would grant:

Arcane Shield = 1 extra block from Arcane Shield. and decrease cool down by 5 seconds. So if running 6 into Arcana it would mean that the shield blocks 6 attacks and the cool down would be 50seconds.

Arcane Blast = 10% Extra damage + something This would mean going 6 into Arcana would increase its damage by 30% with some other to be determined affect. Maybe Condition transfer? 2 conditions transferred for every 2 points spent in the tree?

Arcane Wave = Not quite sure about this one, the added affect could be AoE boon removal? like 2 boons per 2 points for a possible 6 boons removed.

Swim.6830:

Tornado form should give me double the HP during the duration and make 3k crits at minimum.

In my opinion all it needs:

1) Projectile reflection
2) Increased Toughness

These 2 changes alone i think would make the skill actually useful. Its more of a death sentence using it currently :/

Maybe they could add in a 4th skill that is changed depending on your attunement. Something like:

Fire – Fiery Boulder: Turn Your Tornado into a Firenado. Sending out chucks of fiery rock that inflicts Burning on those that it hits.

Water – Icy Boulder: Turn your tornado into a Icenado. Sending out chunks of frozen rock that inflicts Chill on those it hits

Air: needs name Turn your tornado into a Airnado. Sending out chunks of something that inflicts confusion on those it hits

Earth – Rock Boulder – Turn your tornado into a Rocknado. Sending out chunks of Razor sharp rock that inflicts Torment on those it hits.

Burning = 3 seconds
Chill = 2 seconds
Confusion(3 stacks) = 5 seconds
Torment (3 stacks) = 5 seconds

Skill would have a 10 second cool down. Fires say 20 rocks in random directions. The effects continue even after you use any of the 1-3 skills.

Grimreaper.5370:

1. )I actually find stone splinters to be one of the better adept traits for d/d
2.) Diamond skin would become far too OP with that kind of an HP threshold. The engineers automated response actually got nerfed to reduce the duration of conditions by 50% when under a 33% hp threshold. The whole idea behind diamond skin disgusts me, I hate the idea of a trait that hard counters other classes. This trait makes me feel completely unskilled and noob when VSing pure condi builds.

I’d really like to see it become less mandatory putting 20-30 points into the arcana line.
-Make elemental attunement a passive part of the ele.
-Lingering elements fused into 1 point arcana trait.
-10 seconds cool down on attunements regardless of points spent in arcana.
-Add renewing samina to the 15 point trait line.

This would allow you to actually have a choice when looking into the adept and master traits in arcana and it would allow for more diverse builds. The other adept and master trait choices in the Arcana line are not anything significant so you really wouldn’t see the current meta build for Ele shoot through the roof because of these changes. A couple of the adept traits are actually quite pitiful.

-Vigorous scepter- Completely useless due to renewing stamina being a much better option. (they don’t stack)

-Windbourne Dagger- Fairly(but not completely) useless with any meta build in mind due to high swiftness uptime with d/d

Personally i take Elemental Shielding. I just find Stone Splinters in a Condition trait line to be rather poor, then again it has what like 4 traits in the whole line that are based around conditions which is really stupid. I guess you are right. It is just pretty useless against Hybrid builds which is kind of annoying but we cant have everything i guess.

I actually use Windborne Dagger as i run solo so it is very helpful. What would you do with Arcane Fury? The current 1 point minor trait?

Sheppy.9306:

While i think there needs to be a little bit of improvement to earth magic for DD i think idea of giving an elementalist such easy access to torment is ridiculous. that means even a full zerker elementalist with sigil of doom has access to 3 high damage conditions. When keeping burning on a target comes so naturally to an elementalist and when even runnning full zerker it still seems to be in the top 5 highest damage effects when killing an opponent torment is simply not going to be given to elementalists so freely. it would make them the most OP class in the game by a seriously long way. I mean 5 stacks on a skill that has a 15 second cooldown? naaaaaaaaaaaah

I have yet to encounter 1 D/D burst ele, and even then if they aren’t built for conditions the damage is SO minor. for example with no condition damage 1 stack of Torment that lasts 4 seconds would do 255 damage and only if the target is moving for the whole 4 seconds.

So it would be an added like 130ish damage with the Torment on auto attack chain, thats nothing really. It would of course be increased for Condition builds which is to be expected but for Zerker builds i dont really see a problem, would you really go into Earth as a Zerk D/D ele for damage? Then again, i havent actually seen any Zerker D/D ele

You do know that Warrior has a longer duration one right? Sword off hand has 5 stacks for 8 seconds on the same cool down So i don’t think it would be that huge, sure cool downs could be adjusted to balance it a bit Also Magnetic Grasp is easily dodged and bugs out as it is so again it wouldnt be that huge compared to how the Warrior does the same thing. Even if it means increasing the cool down to say 20 seconds, i would be fine with that myself. It just seems the attunement for conditions is rather lacking the conditions…

No way would it suddenly make them the most OP class in the game giving them Torment, not by a long way. Remember this is on the 100% melee only based weapon set as well

I run D/D so only possible one – Signet of Restro. Over 300per a cast is quite nice. Others would be solid in other builds but not mine.

Durzlla.6295:

Navzar.2938:

2. I’m guessing the answer is no, but does Stone Heart work with lingering elements?

2) I’m almost positive it does since lingering elements makes you stay in your attumenets for X seconds after it ends. If you look down above your utility skills when you shift attunements while lingering attunements is equipped you’ll technically still be in the previous attunement.

Im afraid you are wrong. The devs have already confirmed that Lingering Elements only affects the 5point traits and does NOT work with Stone Heart

(i will be concentrating on Earth and D/D in particular)

Skills:

Impale – Seriously poor skill. I would prefer it if it was changed. Maybe something kind of like Vapor Blade with a solid range that can hit more than one person and inflict conditions to each one.

Idea: Turn it into a Chain skill.
Chain 1 – 1/2second cast Damage targets and inflict Bleeding 1 stack (8seconds)
Chain 2 – 1/2 second cast Damage targets and inflict bleeding 1 stack (8 seconds)
Chain 2 – 1/2second cast Damage targets and inflict Torment 1 stack (2 seconds)

the “projectile” would look the same for Chain 1 and 2 but differ for chain 3 due to it inflicting a different condition. Would be like a Boomerang of rock sort of deal. The range would be increased to 900 so D/D has some reasonable kitting ability.

Ring of Earth – It is decent but could be improved.

Idea: Bleeding. Reduce the duration to 6 seconds, increase the stacks from 1 to 2. Keep Cripple the way it is, add 3 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds.

Magnetic Grasp/Magnetic Leap – This is needed, we just need it to be redesigned so that it doesn’t bug out and miss the target so much.

Idea: Magnetic Grasp, maybe add some Bleeding stacks to the initial attack as well 3 stacks of Bleeding for 3 seconds or something. Magnetic Leap could do with a buff. 5 stacks of Torment on leaping to your target in an AoE would be nice.

Earthquake. Good skill. Lower cool down.

Idea: Decrease the cool down from 45 to 30 seconds. I would kind of be interested in maybe it knocking people back rather than down as well.

Churning Earth – Threat yes, viable – No.

Idea: This needs to have quite a bit of work. Reduce the cast time to 2 seconds. Increase the Cripple duration per a stack to 2 seconds because even with it being 1 second people can still just walk out before it goes off. Finally make it more punishing just to leave. Like you have to decide what would be more damaging leaving it or staying and trying to block, dodge invul the actual attack. This could be done with high stacking Torment that gets applied during the channel, kind of like how Cripple works.

Traits:

Serrated Stones – I find this rather lacking. Who actually uses it?
Idea: Remove the damage increase, Increase duration increase to 50% and add chance on hit to inflict Bleeding (works in ALL attunements) for 8 seconds, 2 second cool down. 50% Chance. This would be on HIT and not on Crit.

Stone Splinters – Another rather terrible trait.
Idea: Remove damage increase and change it to 10% Increase to Condition damage when within 600range of your target. This is the Condition trait line after all.

Geomancers Freedom – Decent, could be better
Idea: Increase duration reduction from 33% to 50% These conditions are a killer to pretty much any Ele and not being able to change weaponset and changing from melee to range or range to melee is rather annoying and punishing.

Geomancer’s Alacrity – Average. Average. Average.
Idea – This goes for ALL the skill reduction traits. Rather than just decrease the cool down they should also have a secondary affect like others do. An increase to Toughness and Condition damage would be solid here. Say 5% increase to both.

Diamond Skin – Works well….against some classes.
Idea: change the health threshold from 90% to 75% Engineer has it so that it is immune from 0 – 25% so why is ours only 10% on a squishy class that can take that much damage from auto attacks…

Auesis.7301:

If you do this, then change the system so that only one stance can be used at a time. Using a second stance overwrites the first.

You can’t be in two different stances in a martial art at the same time unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms.

I’d prefer it just being the boons, honestly.

This. It would be INSANELY overpowered if you could have unremovable Stability – as if you dont have enough access to stability now you want it so that it can be removed but the amount of times i see Warrior using several stances at once is a joke.

If you use one stance, no matter the duration used it should be removed and replaced with the new one.

I think the biggest problem is just how quickly they kill people. Being able to burst people down with conditions in 5-10 seconds (or less!) should not happen with a condition build….Or any build for that matter.

The fact that classes can spam 5+ conditions on you in seconds. It just doesn’t seem right. Even classes that aren’t really billed as Condition classes can do it. In My opinion ALL condition builds should be a bit different.

Necromancer – Low condition damage compared to others but the sheer number of conditions is the threat.

Elementalist – lack in conditions (already have that!) High damage with them.

Engineer – Reasonable conditions, not amazing damage but countered with all the stuns and interrupts to stop the enemy.

I think Warrior needs Torment to be removed or the cool down to at least be doubled. Engineer remove Burning – i know they have it on Flamethrower but i don’t ever seen condition builds with it. They normally spam Grenades and Bombs. Reduce the stacks and durations of all the Confusion they have, it is a bit TOO much currently.

Immobilize needs to be fixed. The durations need to be fixed, need to have it not stack.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

why does everyone else have the ability to change range at choice during combat and have MUCH lower cool downs on weapon skills, heals, utilities, defensive skills, elites….

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Bonus Question

Of all the new GM traits, do you use any of them in your ‘Go-To’ build, and why?

Yes. Stone Heart. SO useful in pretty much any build but works really well in my condition D/D build. Of course it gets swapped out for Diamond Skin against Condition builds though.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Just curious, what do Condi builds give up exactly? If anti-condi builds ONLY work against condi classes and weak to everything else. What exactly does Condi give up when they go that route? Nothing.

Fast kill speed, which means they are slower to take capture points. They also generally sacrifice mobility (even condition thieves are considerably less mobile on average) and have the disadvantage that their assault can be more easily survived, as you can kill them, then heal/cleanse.

Ah, so you are viewing this from a S/TPvP viewpoint? I am thinking of only WvW. S/TPvP is rather stale and boring, for me at least so that mode has no interest to me. Which makes it rather annoying that Anet insists on trying (and failing) to balance the whole game around the least played mode in the game, all in the hope of it becoming something that it wont be – an eSport

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problem being that the removals are NO where near that of the application. So in the end the result doesnt change. You having Condition removal doesn’t change the fight. Unless you are FULL anti-condi and in most situations it will just be a draw and not a win.

By Full anti-condi you mean “conditon cleans” ?

If you are condi ele with only Burning and Bleeding as your damaging conditions then you are going to struggle. So yes if you actually want to be able to kill people with condition removal then you need to have others.

I think that i won, i have only bleed on my necro.

By “full anti-condi” i mean taking EVERYTHING you can to counter conditions – traits, runes, sigils, food. everything.

If you only have bleeding – you are not a condi necro.

coglin.1867:

BurrTheKing.8571:

To specialize so much requires sacrificing a lot of offensive power.

Exactly. This is the point exactly. You chose not to specialize away from heavy direct damage, then complain and that the disadvantage to your build should be specifically nerfed or that it is over powered after you chose not to counter it in your build.

Just curious, what do Condi builds give up exactly? If anti-condi builds ONLY work against condi classes and weak to everything else. What exactly does Condi give up when they go that route? Nothing.

dancingmonkey.4902:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problem being that spamming of conditions is MUCH easier than the removal of conditions.

Wait…Wha……What? Well DUH. If cleanses kept pace with condition removal, then condition builds would be completely useless. This already occurs in WvW any time you have and groups of significant size clashing at all. It is one thing to offer a reasonable argument, but to expect a 100% counter 100% of the time doesn’t make a lot of sense.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Because we are FORCED into using them. Try going condi without them. It simply can not be done because of the lack of condition covers.

It appears you do not understand the definition of “forced”. You really should work on that. Proclaiming “optimal” to mean the same as “forced” does nothing for your argument. Your making way to many blind assumptions here. We do not all follow your build perspective in out professions, and we do not all build for 10% damage optimization all the time, if ever.

I do go conditions without them easily. In my condition build, I generally run with generosity and purity.

The problem being that the removals are NO where near that of the application. So in the end the result doesnt change. You having Condition removal doesn’t change the fight. Unless you are FULL anti-condi and in most situations it will just be a draw and not a win.

Of course i am not saying that the removal should be as strong as the application, but they do need to be stronger. An example i gave of a possible way to deal with it, make some skills remove specific conditions, not 3 or 4 but just one but of a specific kind. Like Ring of Fire removing Chill, Burning Speed removing Cripple, Frozen Burst removing Burning that sort of thing.

If you are condi ele with only Burning and Bleeding as your damaging conditions then you are going to struggle. So yes if you actually want to be able to kill people with condition removal then you need to have others.

I have met quite a few condi ele since i started threads about them and posting my condi ele builds, You however would be the first that doesnt use them. What Runeset do you run with out of curiosity?

coglin.1867:

stuff

The problem being that spamming of conditions is MUCH easier than the removal of conditions. The application is ALWAYS stronger. Pretty much every class has quick, easy and some times spammable access to conditions. While the removal of conditions just isn’t strong enough to cope with the spam, spam, spam.

When you can apply 5-6 conditions in the first few seconds of a fight (that is without even using Sig of Spite) you have issues. these conditions will normally involve Cripples, Bleeding and Burning some times even chill for the added cool downs and Poison for the healing reduction.

That is at range as well, so even before you have gotten to your target to attack them you are already at a disadvantage that only grows from there. Unless of course you have enough condition removal to remove them all, in which case seconds later you will have more conditions and be running out of ways to remove them.

Maybe if they added condition removal to skills, but in specific ways. For example. If you (using ele as an example) use Burning Speed or Ring of Fire, it could remove Chill. Use Frozen Burst to remove Burning. Sure their would be ways for this to be done with other classes as well, though cool downs would need to be adjusted on the skills that are under 10 seconds cool down.

Yeah, however. That condition build will be able to fight pretty much every other build – Zerker, Bunker and even other condition builds depending on who they are. So while we are limited to countering ONE build the build they are using counters many more.

Oh yeah, i forgot. No one wants to actually play the game with the limitations of the ele, because most of them would quit after getting beaten. The attunements, the thing that actually damages the class more than anything else. We have INSANE cool downs on pretty much everything.

I think it would have just been better to make each weapon linked to a specific attunement or something and get rid of the attunements altogether but of course it is too late now.

That is just an example of ONE build on ONE class. I can give you examples for Warrior, Thief, Engineer and Necromancer if you like as well. None of them easily stacked? Lol, i have a Mesmer and it is FAR from hard stacking them, especially with staff clones, on death traits (which should have a cool down imo) but

As i have said many times it is NOT the damage that is the problem, it is the number of conditions when you have Burning, Poison, Confusion as well as stacks of Torment, Bleeding and others it simply is an up hill battle JUST to remove them but then, they are back on you in seconds anyway.

dancingmonkey.4902:

What is sacrificial about using runes and sigils that compliment your build or help you reach a goal of the build?

Where did I say vulnerability was a damaging condition? In a group, the engineer for example, excels at stacking vulnerability and group might. This game is multiplayer oriented. These one on one fight comparisons are irrelavent, as the game is niether balanced for one on one, nor is one on one any game mode.

Because we are FORCED into using them. Try going condi without them. It simply can not be done because of the lack of condition covers. That is what every other condition build has without even needing runes or sigils. Thus they can use these for more offensive or defensive options like Sigil of Battle or Energy.

Sure, it is multiplayer based – the group that has more access to conditions than the other group has access to removals will win more than they lose. Because they are built defensive and thus not as weak to zerk builds but have high condition damage and easy access to conditions and can reapply y faster than you can remove.

That is what all condition builds should be. Other than Necro no class should have access to nearly every condition in the game without needing specific runes or sigils. The Mesmer one i mentioned the ONLY conditions the weapon set and trait load out i mentioned doesnt have is Fear and Immboilzie. The traits alone give them access to Bleeding, Confusion, Torment, Weakness and Vul.

dancingmonkey.4902:

That doesn’t make any sense. My elementalist has bleeds, torment(superior sigil of torment), poison(superior sigil of doom), and if I chose, confusion with perplexity, and of course burning. That is 5 damaging conditions, besides the obvious vulnerability, blind, and chill.

Yeah, now take out the runes and sigil. What are you left with? This is what makes a BALANCED condition build. Having to make sacrifices when it comes to runes and sigils and other such items.

What other class (other than Guardian) has to give up Sigils, runes and such in order to get a reasonable amount of conditions. Even with Doom, Perplexity and Torment. Mesmer still has us beat for number of conditions and they can apply more than 1 or 2 at a time.

I mean we have to go into separate attunements to get access to our other class based condition. While Mesmer and other condition classes need not switch weapons, need not worry about lack of conditions.

That is what i am saying, when you have to make sacrifices to make your build work, that is GOOD. When you don’t that is BAD. When combined with our low health, low armor and insane cool downs on our “defensive” skills it just adds to it.

Also, Vul is not a damaging condition. It increases damage taken yeah but the condition itself does no damage. Same goes for Blind and Chill. I would like to see you be able to get all of them without having to swap attunements….

Poison, Blind, Chill, Vul all require either swapping attunements or being in a specific attunement. Yet with all of thaqt we still have LESS conditions than a Mesmer has with just 1 weapon and a trait load out.

As i have said before. The damage the conditions do isn’t the problem. It is and always has been the NUMBER of conditions. Conditions shouldn’t be what decides a fight spamming everything you have over and over again until the target runs out of condition removals and dies.

Unless you are built SPECIFICALLY to counter conditions you are going to have a hard time. This is taking runes, traits, sigils and everything else you can to counter them. However, you counter ONE build type but are weak to balanced builds, zerker builds and bunker builds (in that you wont kill them)

Rather than just nerf all conditions, all that needs to be done really, adjust the number of conditions these classes have. I mean look at Ele they have TWO damaging conditions. No matter the weapon, no matter the trait load out they have TWO.

A staff Mesmer with 0/30/10/30 has access to – Bleeding, Blind, Burning, Chill, Confusion, Cripple, Poison, Torment, Vul and Weakness. Now while some of that is RNG based – Poison, Blind and Chill mostly they can EASILY stack the other conditions

This is the kind of thing i am talking about. That is just ONE weapon set. No runeset, no sigils or anything just ONE weapon set and trait load out.

http://youtu.be/rFDy2n3FLAg

My build is Condi Dagger/Dagger. Build is in the video description. Just started making videos of my gameplay after many requests. Will be making a thread for them all once i get the limits on posting (and making new threads) lifted

emikochan.8504:

I feel that our long range options are weaker than our short/mid range, rifle is just what the class needs, then you could get to the more fun stuff after that :p

Hate rifle!
Pistols are SO much better.

Make them condition based and i would be sold

I would love to see Pistols added, Though i would prefer if they were fully condition based weapons with Burning, Bleeding, Torment and Confusion as damaging conditions. Chill, Cripple and such as other condition.

Mix of Single target and AoE damage with a trait that decreases cool down and makes attacks pierce.

I would like to see the attunement cool down traits given something extra. Why is it other classes get cool down reduction AND for example stat increases?

Pyromancer’s Alacrity – 20% skill reduction and 250 Power
Aeromancer’s Alacrity – 20% Skill reduction and 250 Ferocity
Geomancer’s Alacrity – 20% skill reduction and 250 Condition Damage
Aquamancer’s Alacrity – 20% skill reduction and 250 Healing Power

I have gone with the 250 instead as you don’t spend as much time in the attunement and it having 10-13 second cool down.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, you attacked into the Mesmer’s block skill to get the Torment, you took the full channel of Confusing Images (plus a probable Cry of Frustration shatter with the clone), then a weapon swap with Sigil of Doom to Sword nailed you with Blurred Frenzy (probably doubling as a defensive play on the Mesmer’s part), and a Sharper Images I. Deulist was pounding away at you. Weakness on Mesmers can only come from Chaos Storm (and he wasn’t using a staff) or Debilitating Dissipation, which means you killed his clones.

You took the full brunt of multiple channeled attacks and mis-played against your opponent’s active defense, and were attacking his clones, and your excuse for losing is that conditions are broken and easy to play?

I actually didnt get the proc from the Scepter block, otherwise it would have been 5 stacks of Torment and not 3. He didn’t shatter once. So i know its not that. I am guessing running Doom and Torment Sigils, running Perplexity runes as as well.

Blurred Frenzy barely touched me as i was in Earth, think it did like 1k damage total. So that wasn’t a threat. The duelist did 2 rounds of damage but again barely any actual damage. It was the insane number of conditions. Again, didnt take the Torment damage from the block so that means nothing.

Conditions are easy to play. EVERY condition build should be like Ele. For us when going conditions we give up A LOT. We do next to no direct damage. Have to make quite a bit of sacrifice and we have a MUCH lower number of conditions. That is how it should be. We have TWO damaging conditions. Look at what other classes have damage wise when it comes to conditions.

Yeah i lost. Though spamming conditions does tend to do that. When even Ether Renewal can’t save you it is rather pointless. Seeing as all but 1 of my attacks is an AoE (running D/D) it makes it kind of hard NOT to hit clones….

But i guess even after using ER and within 5 second having all the conditions back on me is perfectly fine. That is just one example. You can say “oh you were at fault, you did this, you did that” but the fact that my defence against conditions was totally useless seeing as how i was pumped full of conditions again. THIS is the problem, it is FAR too easy to apply conditions with SO many being rather TOO easy to apply – Debilitating Dissipation, Crippling Dissipation, Confusing Combatants all being prime examples and that is just from a few Mesmer traits.

coglin.1867:

Wat makes it cheap? How does it require little skill? Would you have had all of those conditions on you had you dodges, blocked, or interrupted any of the skills that applied those conditions?

Are you suggesting he button mashed and burnt all of his condition applying skills? If so, did you cleanse them and pound on him as you now had 8ish-20ish seconds before he could do any more significant damage? Did you lose the fight?

I feel you need to answer the legitimate question I am asking to add context and legitimize your complaint. Otherwise your just blurting out random. broad complaints. Not to mention everything Drarnor Kunoram mentioned about how you causes some of it to yourself with your poor actions in play.

My “Blocks” i have ONE and it is on a 75second cool down, yeah that aint going to really do much of anything. Though gotta laugh, i mean other classes get blocks that block all damage for its full duration – we get 3 blocks on a 75second cool down….

The problem being that only ONE of them skills (Scepter Confusion) has a cast time and do remember i am an ele. You know how long the cool downs are on our interrupts? They are INSANE. So that would be wasted. The biggest issue are the on clone death traits with no cool down or anything, when ALL but one of my attacks is an AoE it pretty much guarantees that clones will die. It is rather strong, too strong (imo) for a Adapt trait that has no cool down.

You do know just how little cast time they can get on the Scepter right? Hell my Mesmer can make the Confusion from Confusing Images last LONGER than its cool down when built right…

Dahir.4158:

I’m also thinking of switching to the changed Krait rune. Perplexity is fun but I need something new now. One thing that is off-putting about going for elite-based runes is the fact that the elites I am able to use have a ridiculously long cool down.

Summon Druid Spirit – 240 sec (racial)
Summon Sylvan Hound – 180 sec (racial)
Conjure Fiery Greatsword – 180 sec
Take Root – 150 sec (racial)
Glyph of Elemental – 120 sec

I see the Krait runes benefiting classes that have a lower cooldown for their elite skills like Thieves, Warriors and possibly Necromancers if they don’t summon their Flesh Golems pre-fight. Although I could be wrong, I would still like to give it a try… when I have money, haha.

Personally, i don’t think it is worth it. As you have said it being attached to the Elite is the killer. It loses all potential due to the fact its single stacks for about 8 seconds. That simply isn’t worth it when we have INSANE elite cool downs.

I was really hoping we would get some good changes to others – Krait, Torment and such but the Krait change is terrible. Torment i don’t think has even been changed.

I too would love to change runeset but i can’t not only does Perplexity do great damage, it procs often enough to make it a great added condition as well. Having 8 seconds of Bleeding, Poison and Torment every like 150seconds simply is not worth it.

Yeah it doesn’t work for Stone Heart. i think this is good. It would be INSANELY broken if it did and would have likely meant just a reduction in crit damage rather then total removal of it. TWO thieves used back stab on me at the same time while i was in Earth – i took just over 2,000 total damage

An example. I just fought a condition Mesmer. At one point i had 8 stacks of confusion, 3 stacks of Torment, Poison, Wekaness, 7 stacks of Bleeding, Vul and Cripple. This is what i am talking about. The attacks i was hit with: Blurred Frenzy, iDuelist, Confusing Images, and a few auto attacks (according to “battle log”)

This is an example of cheap Condition builds. They require SO little actual skill. You win not because you are good but because you can easily spam conditions.

My list:

1. Stone Heart
2. Lightning Rod
3. Aquatic Benevolence
4. Blinding Ashes
5. Elemental Contingency

I have to admit here, i was wrong. When i heard about the trait i thought man that its terrible but it has won me over, Stone Skin is SO useful and works in pretty much any build. Helps against burst SO well. The most i have taken is like 3k from a Kill shot, we were just testing it compared to other attunements. In water i took nearly 6k damage, in Earth with the trait i took just over 3k damage.

The biggest issue i had (and still have) is the usefulness of being in Earth, especially D/D with its terrible auto attack. Ring of Earth is okay (would like Torment!) Magnetic Grasp bugs out SO much but useful when/if it decides to work. Earthquake is decent but on an insane cool down and Churning Earth, we all know about Churning Earth – insane cast time, no threat or punishment for just walking out of AoE and the cool down is insane. Really think it needs like the Cripple increased to 2-3 seconds per an application and have Torment in it as well as a threat so the player(s) have to choose – go out and take big Torment damage or stay in take less torment damage and try and dodge, invul, interrupt the cast.

Lightening Rod, i can’t comment. I havent used it so i think it would be pointless to say. The others i would say are poor. The healing, how does that help the ele? the class that needs it the most and gets no benefit? Pointless.

Blind a target every 5 seconds? Wow, totally worth going 30 into a terrible traitline..Oh wait. Its not. I was REALLY hoping for a Burning Damage increase or maybe something that makes having Burning and Chill on the target inflict a new ele only (and stay ele only!) condition. The Arcana one, pointless. Less than useless. a average set of boons most of which we already have access to tied to getting HIT the ONE thing we don’t want and even then the duration and stacks are pathetic combine that with the 10 second shared (as far as i could test) cool down makes it useless in every build.