Guild Wars 2

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

the only good option for these runes if they are completely removed from game .. there is reason why they’re not in spvp and it’s same reason why the shouldn’t be in game at all

Their is nothing wrong with the runes themselves. However when you combine it with specific classes THAT is when it becomes a problem. So rather than nerfing a solid rune set they should be nerfing the access 2 specific classes get to Confusion.

Its strange everyone thinks the runeset is overpowered by Warrior has a trait that is a longer duration version of the 6/6 that has no cool down and everyone seems fine with that. Look at all the access engineer get to confusion as well…

Harper.4173:

Warriors do not have invulnerability skills – please learn the game.
The misinformation you’re spreading is not good.

So i used the wrong term, well unless they use them together in which case they would have Invul….

They were the skills i was talking about. Hell even the Shield Block needs to have the healing disabled when its active. They can still take over 2k healing with Endure Pain active and they take even more healing when Berserker stance is active.

For everything they have, which is simply too much of EVERYTHING. They don’t have to give anything up. Bunker ele gives up damage for example. What does the class that has the best of everything that can be put into a single build give up? Nothing.

oZii.2864:

The damage should be about 5% more and his damage reduction is also about 5% that’s really the biggest difference between the ascended and exotic.

If he wouldn’t have shown his gear I doubt the question of him in full ascended vs people not in ascended would have came up.

that 5% is from Exotic to Ascended, what if they are wearing Rare? what if they have no Ascended items at all. I mean the damage was nice and all but most of the fights were where HE had the upper hand from the start. It was always HIM starting the fights against non-moving and in some cases AFK/Semi-AFK players.

I just hope that some of the changes to the other runes open up more options, it just seems currently you have a few stand out Runes like Lyssa, Perplexity, Travelers and then the rest are garbage and rarely used.

Direksone.3867:

They’re toning down the healing signet though. Let’s first see how that works out.

The “nerf” means nothing. It is like a 38hps drop, that won’t stop them from still being insane. They need to make it that the Healing Signet doesnt work with the Invuls they have as well as a start.

dimyzuka.7051:

DE needs to be moved down or made inbuilt, Just like Thiefs mug trait it is a %100 necessity, except luckily for thieves mug is a adept trait. If mug can be a adept trait then DE should be aswell otherwise mesmers will continue to be forced to make builds with 20 pts less because we need DE.

The mesmer class feels incomplete without DE, which is a much deeper issue but i doubt it can be addressed without a expansion or something.

The ONLY way it should be allowed to be moved down/made part of the class is if it was nerfed.

1) 10 second cool down added before another dodge clone can be made
2) Won’t create another clone if you already have 3 clones/ 2 clones 1 phantasm / 1 clone 2 phantasm up.

That sort of change happens then i think it wouldn’t be so bad. The fact it is SO strong for Mesmers in its current state means that it should NOT be made into a class mechanic or moved down without it being nerfed.

That was part of the idea, remove the stupid low chance things with insane cool downs would be a start. Things like:

5% chance to gain vigor for 10 seconds when hit, 30second cool down (Rune of Baelfire. That is POINTLESS.

Things like gaining haste for 5 seconds when you reach 20% health with a 90second cool down. That is POINTLESS.

I find the Krait runes rather pointless as well. the 4 and 6 would have to be redesigned. I mean even the 2/6 isn’t that great

So i understand that Perplexity is getting nerfed and though i personally think it wasn’t the runeset that was the problem but specific classes i can accept that something needed to be done.

I also hear that some changes are happening to runesets, this is in my opinion great news especially for Condition builds if the changes are worth while. Perplexity has become sort of a must have for pretty much all condition builds for various reasons and that clearly shouldn’t have happened.

What Condition based runesets would you like to have changed? and how would you change them?

I have a couple: Tormenting and Sunless

Tormenting:

(1): +28 Condition Damage.png Condition Damage
(2): 15% Torment Duration
(3): +55 Condition Damage.png Condition Damage
(4): 15% Torment Duration. 20% chance on hit to inflict 3 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds (15 second ICD)
(5): +100 Condition Damage.png Condition Damage
(6): 15% Torment Duration and AoE 5 Stacks of Torment on Heal (30s cooldown)

The previous version was rather poor, of course before the 6/6 got a cool down it was insanely broken with 1 class. I think 2 stacks of torment for a 6/6 is rather poor. Upping it from 2 stacks to 5 stacks would be a nice change and as such the cool down would need to be increased a bit to compensate.

Added a new part to the 4/6 that would make it more worthwhile to use adding a 20% chance when hitting someone to proc it would be reasonable, 3 stacks as well isn’t too much and it isn’t too little, this would not be based on critical hit or anything just purely when you hit someone.The 6/6 would then do 795 damage when not moving and 1,595 damage when moving. This is with no condition damage. with 1,026 condition damage that would be 1,760 damage when not moving and 3,520 damage when moving. While this sounds strong, it would have a 5 second base duration with a 30second cool down. Both Warrior and Mesmer get MUCH better access to longer duration one on much shorter duration as well.

(1): +28 Condition Damage
(2): -10% Condition Duration
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): – 10% Condition Duration. You have 20% chance to Burn your target on hit. 5second Duration. 20second cool down
(5): + 100 Condition Damage
(6): When you use an elite skill, You become a Burning nova inflicting Burning (3seconds) on all enemies in range for 15 seconds. Proc every 3 seconds (120second cool down)

Removed the critical damage as it was rather pointless in a condition rune set. Moved the duration decrease to the 4/6 and added a Burning proc to it and then added 100 condition damage to the 5/6. A total replace of the very pointless 6/6 and made it in an AoE burn proc. It would proc a 3 second burn every 3 seconds. High cool down as it could be very powerful with some Elites.

So what Condition Runes would you like to see changed and how would you change them?

I dunno, i am going to wait and see what the rune changes offer up. I really hope that Anet really shakes them up. Because it says a lot when 1 rune set becomes the “best” over all the others. Is that because that rune set is just too strong or because the others are too weak?

aLovedhater.4096:

thanks for the responses, and why are do you guys recommend sigil of doom in place of any other condi dmg sigil?

Its a condition that you don’t have access to and it helps a LOT against Warriors and any other class with high regen. Those would be the key reasons why i use it.

oZii.2864:

Fixed? You want warrior, mesmer, engineer, to be fixed so that you can play condi Ele? What!

Huh? did i even say anything about what i said was about my ele?
I play more than one character you know. This goes for all of them. I mean Mesmer is okay as they have to trait for it and such but Warrior having a better Confusion on interrupt as a trait that has no cool down? Its insane. Look at all the Confusion Engineer has as well

oZii.2864:

The classes and traits have been around since launch the runes came later I am sure the runes get changed before classes will that is crazy to suggest. The duration doesn’t even work on the runes currently anyone with a interrupt could abuse the 6 before the icd was added. Now you get 1 interrupt then it goes on icd if you put them on your condi ele then you still can use them post patch.

Yeah and the traits weren’t much of an issue until the extra confusion came along. On there own okay, with the runeset insane. Now does that mean that the runeset should be nerfed for everyone because of certain classes?

I have them on my ele, it is the 4/6 that i am more worried about. On attack was much better. We can’t really just stand around getting hit for it to proc. With lowest health and lowest armor the last thing we want is to be attacked.

oZii.2864:

They are being nerfed because of interrupts on classes make them the best runes to run on your condi build. Really your condition ele will still be able to use the runes like you do now but the 4 piece is alot less controllable.

It is fine on classes that either have no other access to Confusion or classes that can’t really spam them. That is what makes them so strong on Warrior and Engineer. They can still be rather strong on Mesmer but not to the same extent.

When the 6/6 is combined with the Warrior trait, that is A LOT of confusion. Engineer has SO much access to confusion on rather low cool downs as it is. With plenty of interrupts.

oZii.2864:

Look at lyssa they didn’t nerf low cooldown elites like basi and signet of rage because of lyssa they nerfed lyssa same logic applies here.

Lyssa is rather different though. I mean that had specific classes that was very good and others that it was pointless and was pretty much taken for the 6/6. Perplexity on the other hand was balanced for some classes and broken on others, now its going to be balanced for some classes, average at best for others.

Hope they release the full details of changes for other runesets so i can have a look and see what options i have. Already some decent options out there but they could be improved a bit before they are really viable.

Simonoly.4352:

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Its not the runes that made them faceroll easy. It was specific classes that already had good/insane access to Confusion. Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer were the worst ones with it. Thief thanks to being able to spam interrupts 3 or 4 times in a row with certain builds weren’t exactly easy to fight either.

They will continue to be strong because the root issue has been ignored – the classes that can abuse them have not been fixed so they can’t. Even with the nerf to it this is still a very strong Runeset for them, it just means for other classes that used them because they were a new condition its just a big nerf.

ThiBash.5634:

If you want extra conditions, you could consider using Sigil of Torment and Sigil of Doom after the patch. You’d get 2 extra conditions which would give you room to use a rune that doesn’t add yet another condition.

I use them both already, it will be nice when they don’t share a cool down but the 250 condition damage loss will be a real pain. As i run with Corruption/Doom and then go Torment/Doom at 25 stacks. Won’t be possible come the update though

Punch.4231:

New runes of Balthazar might be worth a look. +175 condi dmg, +45% burn duration, +3s aoe burn on heal (10s cd).

Interesting. Though i would prefer one that adds a condition that we don’t have access to. That is the biggest reason to use Perplexity as we don’t have Confusion so we need as many different ways to get conditions as possible thanks to our rather low access to them.

If Tormenting was improved enough that could be a reasonable choice. However it would need a 4/6 that has a chance to proc on hit and the 6/6 would need to be buffed.

Zutha.5091:

I’ll probably get another infraction for this but I’d only be embarrassed if I was a balance dev with the time and decision making of balancing in gw2…. utterly embarrassed.

I doubt they are. They are so insanely bias towards certain classes that its becoming a joke. Just look at Warrior it is a complete and utter mess that has too much of everything and sacrifices NOTHING. Guess what class they all play as well….

It is time Anet said enough is enough removed them from the roles and replaced them with people that aren’t so insanely bias towards certain classes. Until that happens, this game will NEVER be anywhere near balanced. In fact, it has gotten WORSE the longer the game has gone on.

Nothing will be done about them because of how VERY bias the Devs are. It is that simple.

Just a thought, you are FULL ascended. Armor, weapons and Accessories. Have you thought that maybe, just maybe you were fighting people that weren’t full Ascended? I mean the damage is nice and all but you are full Ascended after all.

Don’t get me wrong, the damage is nice but as you have no idea about the other guys it could just be they were running rares for all you know and several of your fights involved people that were semi AFK as well which does help.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEEQJAoYncMcMonhwhFOsNwvhyB8rdJOAQUAzLDFi8R5BNzYDA-zkCB4MIIOBkWAg8Oh5RRMTaIrl1FRjVJTIVPLy6GYkCAmpRA-w

This is currently my build. It works well. If i am lucky enough to know that i will be fighting a Condi build i normally swap to Ether Renewal. Most helpful against Necro and Engineer i find. Mesmer you can use it but SoR works as well depending on the skill level as they can’t really spam you full of conditions from the get go.

I have been thinking about a possible change to 0/0/30/20/20 build that would increase my condition damage (currently around 2k when fully buffed) and increase my toughness to around 2100-2200 but also trying to see if i can cut down on the condition damage a little to grab some more healing power.

personally i don’t think Scepter is worth it in a condition build. I would take Dagger/Dagger instead. Has better access to Burning which is a key condition. The sigils arent the best either. Bleeding though decent won’t be your key condition, Burning will. I would go with Doom and Tormenting that would add 2 new conditions to your kitten nal that would need to be removed.

30 into Fire is a waste. You only need the +40% from food. All else while nice could be better elsewhere. The traits you picked while decent are not worth the loss of health, healing power, boon duration and attunement swap recharge.

I would go 0/0/20/20/30 myself its a solid basis, decent healing options and EA can be very good.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Pretty sure the devs just don’t play ele so they have no idea what its like having to be either a bunker ele that does 0 damage or a glass nerf gun that does only semi decent dmg and dies in 3 seconds.

This. Until they actually spend time playing the class in all modes they will not understand HOW to balance us.

The problem with the 4/6 is that we tend not to want to get hit. So that a lone is a nerf to the access we have with it. The cool down is rather high as well. The 6/6 isn’t that bad of a nerf really.

It is more about the 4/6 than anything else that is rather a big nerf for a class that tries its best not to get hit thanks to low health and low armor.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Took a long time to kill some terrible players and up levels. Ya ele is in an awful spot right now.

Well, he is a Condi build. Don’t be expecting to melt classes in seconds. Seeing as Ele is the second weakest condi build in the game (ahead of Guardian as all they have is burning) Condition builds on other classes kill fast for the simple fact that they can just easily spam conditions and conditions and even more conditions without even having to be in close range.

The changes to Perplexity:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Currently Live: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +28 Condition Damage
(2) 15% Confusion Duration
(3) +55 Condition Damage
(4) 20% chance to cause 3 stacks of confusions for 5s on hit. 15 ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +15% Confusion duration; Causes 5 stacks of confusion for 10 seconds on interrupt. 8s ICD

New Version: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) 10% Confusion Duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4)) 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. 25s ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +20% confusion duration; when you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. 15s ICD.

Now here are the changes bonus by bonus
(1) -3 Condition Damage
(2) -5% Confusion Duration
(3) -5 Condition Damage
(4) +5% trigger chance, +10s ICD, changed the trigger from on hit to when you are struck
(5) no change
(6) +5% Confusion Duration, -2s confusion duration, +7s ICD

So this is a rather big nerf, more so for those of us Ele that run Condition builds. With that in mind i am curious how many of you are thinking about changing the runeset out and if you dont run with it – what do you run with?

The annoying thing is, the Runeset isn’t even the problem its some classes having to much access to Confusion Engineer and Warrior being key examples of when this Runeset becomes broken.

Rune of Undead could be a decent alternative. No extra condition but an extra 5% of Toughness turned into Condition Damage which for most should be an extra 100 Condition damage (assuming 2k toughness)

Antitoxin, Sunless. Scavenging, Nightmare, Grenth and Tormenting could be viable options IF they get some changes.

Antitoxin – decent -25% Condition duration is welcome. the 6/6 would need to be changed and have a 4/6 that has a chance to reflect conditions back at the target. Change the 6/6 so that You gain the Might for 10 seconds but that it also offers something else. I think just affected by Poison and Torment is kind of weak for a 6/6

Sunless – More reduction in condition duration, though only 20% this time. the 4/6 needs to be changed. Don’t understand the reason for Critical damage in a condition rune. 5/6 needs to have 100 Condition damage added and 6/6 needs to be changed. Not quite sure what to but 1 second of fear on using an elite is pretty awful.

Scavenging – the 2/6 would need to be upped a bit, 5% chance is pretty awful. Make it 50% chance with 25-30second cool down. 4/6 is decent though i am pretty sure the healing gained is rather poor. So again this would need to be buffed a little bit same goes for the 2/6. The 6/6 is okay but would be a little weaker on Ele i think.

Nightmare – the Condition duration should be upped to 20-25% the 4/6 would need some effect added to it. Not fear something else, Maybe a chance to proc Poison or something? the 6/6 would need to be replaced. Terrible proc chance and insane cool down. Kind of useless for Ele as we need more Conditions on the target.

Grenth – Nice addition of Chill increase, Though only 20% is kind of weak considering others increase all conditions by either 20% or 25% The 4/6 Needs to be improved. Low proc chance and high cool down. The 6/6 could again be decent with Arcane Brilliance and Elemental Surge, though the duration could be improved.

Tormenting – Would need higher AoE stacks of Torment. This could work nicely with Arcane Brilliance and Elemental Surge. Maybe add a 4/6 that can proc it on attacks that would be nice as well.

Some decent options should the changes to Runesets make them more appealing. Most condi ele use Perplexity because it is a great runeset for another Condition that we dont have access to and that can be on the target a lot.

With the nerf it is getting i think most that use Perplexity will want to switch out to something else. Especially as the 4/6 has been to changed to when hit, rather than when attacking.

This sucks for most Condi ele builds. Hahving access to a new condition with a reasonable up time is what made the runeset valuable. Now i think it has lost all of that. Hoping the changes to other rune sets are good enough that we have solid alternatives to pick from.

I don’t see the reason for nerfing the runeset when it was certain classes that made it overpowered – Thief, Engineer and Warrior are the ones that made this Runeset amazingly strong.

All they needed to do was remove some of the confusion Engineer has (imo they shouldnt have any) remove the stupid warrior trait and increase the initiative cost of skills like Head Shot.

Chastein.9874:

-SNIP-

Isn’t that the exact opposite of what you were saying. I use Earth for a specific reason. I dont go in it just to spam the attacks before moving somewhere else to spam the attacks. I know when i want to go into Earth and i know when i want to use the attacks, it might not work every time but i don’t just go into it just to spam the attacks before moving to another attunement to spam attacks.

Sure, the protection is nice but if i am expecting an attack i go Air, not Earth. Shocking Aura is great against Thieves in Stealth plus with the short duration of Protection it means having to go into Earth at the very last second. Not always easy when you are fighting someone that has just gone stealth and not knowing when they will next attack.

Chastein.9874:

-SNIP-

Please, you hate them. All you have done is say how they all just spam attacks from every attunement. Which i will repeat not all Dagger/Dagger ele do. I also wonder why you think only they do it. Then again you make stupid assumptions based on nothing. You haven’t seen me fight yet just assume that i spam everything i have. Curious, what Server are you on? I would be interested in having a duel in OS if its possible.

How have i said the Ele is underpowered? Which though we aren’t exactly weak we aren’t powerhouses either when it comes to damage. Saying a trait or attunement is bad isn’t the same as saying the class is underpowered. Sure we could use some buffs here and there but we are close. We just lack sustain.

So i swap to an attunement when i need 2 skills how is that bad? Surely that is the POINT of attunements. Knowing when to swap and knowing what skills you want to use. The reason it is only 2 skills is due to the fact the other 2 and the auto attack are shockingly crap. That isn’t my fault. Why would i stay in an attunement and use the other skills if i know they are either terrible or not going to hit. Surely, surely it is better to know what skills you will want to use, get in use them skills and then move again…

Like i said, Give it a few months after release and see who is still using it. I guess everyone is different, i wouldn’t want a trait that has no effect on like 90% of a fight. So you stop one burst attempt – Then what? most classes have plenty fast recharging burst, Thief can do it every 4-5seconds if they want. As i ahve said, my issue isn’t with the trait but the attunement. If they make Earth more viable to actually spend more than 4 or 5seconds in then sure it could be great. Until then its just going to be rather pointless. stopping some burst but having no way of putting them on the defensive means you are going to be kinda stuck.

Chastein.9874:

-SNIP-

Oh right, silly me. Because peoples posts define how good of a player they are. Please, tell me what server are you on. I would love to duel you some time. Do i claim to be the best? Of course not but to just straight out assume that i am terrible is kinda stupid. So my invitation is open – Come duel me some time in OS assuming you are on the right server. If you are SO amazingly good and i am SO amazingly bad i should be no threat to you what so ever.

Chastein.9874:

-SNIP-

I played GW1, i found it to be pretty terrible. Does that have anything to do with my skill level? No, it just means i found the game rather poor. I have played plenty of MMO games and GW1 was by far the worst, well Tera Online came very close as well – man that game sucked.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Im pretty sure all the runes will be the same across all aspects of the game. Not just perplexity. So I suspect these changes will also affect PvE and WvW.

Mmmmm, that is a HUGE nerf to Condi Ele builds then. Perplexity was a must runeset for the added damage and condition. This is going to hurt us

Rune of Undead could be a decent alternative. No extra condition but an extra 5% of Toughness turned into Condition Damage which for most should be an extra 100 Condition damage.

Antitoxin, Sunless. Scavenging, Nightmare, Grenth and Tormenting could be viable options IF they get some changes.

Antitoxin – decent -25% Condition duration is welcome. the 6/6 would need to be changed and have a 4/6 that has a chance to reflect conditions back at the target. Change the 6/6 so that You gain the Might for 10 seconds but that it also offers something else. I think just affected by Poison and Torment is kind of weak for a 6/6

Sunless – More reduction in condition duration, though only 20% this time. the 4/6 needs to be changed. Don’t understand the reason for Critical damage in a condition rune. 5/6 needs to have 100 Condition damage added and 6/6 needs to be changed. Not quite sure what to but 1 second of fear on using an elite is pretty awful.

Scavenging – the 2/6 would need to be upped a bit, 5% chance is pretty awful. Make it 50% chance with 25-30second cool down. 4/6 is decent though i am pretty sure the healing gained is rather poor. So again this would need to be buffed a little bit same goes for the 2/6. The 6/6 is okay but would be a little weaker on Ele i think.

Nightmare – the Condition duration should be upped to 20-25% the 4/6 would need some effect added to it. Not fear something else, Maybe a chance to proc Poison or something? the 6/6 would need to be replaced. Terrible proc chance and insane cool down. Kind of useless for Ele as we need more Conditions on the target.

Grenth – Nice addition of Chill increase, Though only 20% is kind of weak considering others increase all conditions by either 20% or 25% The 4/6 Needs to be improved. Low proc chance and high cool down. The 6/6 could again be decent with Arcane Brilliance and Elemental Surge, though the duration could be improved.

Tormenting – Would need higher AoE stacks of Torment. This could work nicely with Arcane Brilliance and Elemental Surge. Maybe add a 4/6 that can proc it on attacks that would be nice as well.

Some decent options should the changes to Runesets make them more appealing. Most condi ele use Perplexity because it is a great runeset for another Condition that we dont have access to and that can be on the target a lot.

With the nerf it is getting i think most that use Perplexity will want to switch out to something else. Especially as the 4/6 has been to changed to when hit, rather than when attacking.

(The concluding part to my post…)

Chastein.9874:

TL;DR – Any Elementalist playing Scepter or staff worth their skills switch to Earth for defensive/control purposes. Playing the spammy style of dagger/dagger had degenerated the minds of Dagger/Dagger exclusive players into swapping into any attunement currently available which makes Stone Heart useless for them.

I wonder – are you able to read correctly? I mean i have stated several times that some weapons have good Earth skills but are let down by the other attunements and you seem to have ignored me saying it. I will repeat – Scepter and Focus have solid Earth skills even if they could be tweaked here and there the issue with them is not the Earth attunement but the other attunements. Staff doesn’t really count. It is pretty much a Zerg attack spamming weapon while trying to stay away from all the damage.

I have lost count now how many times i have said this: Stop assuming that all Dagger/Dagger users are just spamming everything they have in every attunement. You might have seen some that do it, that doesnt mean that we all do. This kind of comment just shows you have no idea what you are saying when you make such assumptions that “Most” Dagger/Dagger users just spam attacks.

No, using Dagger/Dagger HASN’T degenerated the minds of us that use Dagger/Dagger primarily into spamming the attunements. I know plenty that KNOW how the play the weaponset and switch at the right time. To make assumptions like this which you have done through out your post shows exactly what kind of person you are.

Chastein.9874:

On a side note, any decent Elementalist playing Dagger/Dagger will situationally switch to Earth for on-demand protection which will now be boosted by Stone Heart.

On a side note, this trait will be used for a month or so until they see it really has little effect on the out come of a fight (unless it gets fixed to work with Lingering Elements) As you are “stuck” in an attunement that for ALL weapon sets has issues, some against range, some against melee but all due to the weakness of the attunement skills.

Now i will repeat: This is NOT me saying that Earth should be an insane killing machine of an Attunement. This is me saying that the Earth Attunement needs to be worked on with most weapons and the weapons with good Earth attunements need the others to be worked on.

Chastein.9874:

That’s the problem. You’re a Dagger/Dagger exclusive player who spams earth attunement just for spamming available skills. Yes, MH DaggerEarth skills are crap but you’re blinded by your close-mindedness about Dagger/Dagger that you don’t even see the potential of Stone Heart on other weapon sets.

I actually spend less than 10% of a fight in Earth, i get in use the skills i need and then get out. Nothing more. Though i am curious how you can say such blind and stereotypical comments like: player who spams earth attunement without actually seeing me play.

As i said, out of all the attunements i spend the least amount of time in Earth. Because it just isn’t worth it. Once i have gotten Earthquake and Ring of Earth done i leave. I might on the occasion swap to try Magnetic Grasp but that is normally in a vein attempt to stop someone from running when i know it has more chance to fail than it does of working.

Chastein.9874:

So why do people who use Scepter or Staff attune to Earth? Because it’s a defensive weapon set that that has decent defensive skills that help them control their enemies and survive. Why do MOST Dagger/Dagger exclusive players like you attune to earth? To spam all available skills and to get the free protection boon.

Like i said, Scepter and Earth have some decent Earth skills. I am not denying that. What Scepter and Focus lack is quality skills in the other attunements though. Though i wouldnt really call Scepter that defensive. I mean all it has is a little added toughness which is nice even if the second part of the skill is terrible and a Blind that is rather easy to dodge unless you are in melee range.

Again, stop making assumptions due to the weapon set i use. I also use Staff and i also have Scepter. I attune to Earth when i need to normally to try and get Ring of Earth and Earthquake off, because that is really all it is good for. Magnetic Grasp hardly works, Churning Earth is a joke and the auto attack is shockingly bad.

So, no i don’t spam my attacks. I know how to play the class and your assumptions that me and “Most” D/D players just use it to spam attacks is rather annoying.

Chastein.9874:

The problem is not with Stone Heart. The problem lies with the Dagger/Dagger weaponset and the mindless playstyle of most Dagger/Dagger exclusive players that just spams Earth Attunement for spamming available skills and to get passive Protection.

Yet again, You need to STOP with this hatred against Dagger/Dagger users. I have seen PLENTY of staff and Scepter users spamming attacks pointlessly – do i assume or even suggest that they all do it? No because i am not stupid. The problem is with Dagger/Dagger in that the Auto attack is a joke, Magnetic Grasp hates the slightest change and that Churning Earth is useless in like 99.9% of situations. It is NOT because as you wrongly (again!) assume that Dagger/Dagger just mindlessly spam attacks.

As i have said several times. I spend the least time in a fight in Earth, some times i dont even go into it at all during fights. This is due to skills that Dagger/Dagger more than anything else.

Chastein.9874:

If you have time to cry about Stone Heart being useless to your Dagger/Dagger build, maybe you should spend that time crying about Dagger Earth skills because that’s the source of the problem for main hand dagger players.

Again, making stupid assuptions. Me saying this trait is wasted and IS going to end up like Diamond Skin isn’t “crying” at all. It is simply stating putting such a trait in a useless attunement means nothing. I have said many times that the problem is not with the trait but with the attunement skills. Even for a defensive attunement it needs to offer something to make the attacker THINK if they should continue attacking and risk dying or pull back a bit. Currently NO Earth attunement weapons offer this. Because Earth is no threat what so ever.

(Too be continued in next post…)

Sunshine.4680:

I’m confused, how’s a condi ele played? like most of the time in earth? >.>

No. You spend as little time as possible in Earth at least for D/D. You would spend most of your time in Fire and Air. Going Water for healing and such as you normally would. Burning is such a key condition for us that we would want to have it on as much as possible.

Combine that with the right gear and such you would be getting 800+ Burning Tick damage. Add into that Torment, Perplexity, Doom (Torment, Confusion, Poison) via runes and sigils and you still have some pretty decent condition numbers.

You are going to be tanky and when combined with Healing Power it can be very hard. Of course all other Condition builds are “stronger” but they rely on condition spamming. On ele as with any ele build when playing condi you want to use specific skills at the right time. Of course a few are pretty much use as often as possible – Drakes Breath being right at the top. Burning Speed and Ring of Fire are pretty key as well.

You also have Air and its skills that can be VERY useful. Shocking Aura is great against Melee though useless against range so no point using against them unless you have it traited for Protection and/or Fury/swiftness Ride The Lightening and Updraft can be very helpful as well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEEQJAoYncMcMonhwhFOsNwvhyB8rdJOAQUAzLDFi8R5BNzYDA-zkCB4MIIOBkWAg8Oh5RRMTaIrl1FRjVJTIVPLy6GYkCAmpRA-w

This is currently my build. It works well. If i am lucky enough to know that i will be fighting a Condi build i normally swap to Ether Renewal. Most helpful against Necro and Engineer i find. Mesmer you can use it but SoR works as well depending on the skill level as they can’t really spam you full of conditions from the get go.

I have been thinking about a possible change to 0/0/30/20/20 build that would increase my condition damage (currently around 2k when fully buffed) and increase my toughness to around 2100-2200 but also trying to see if i can cut down on the condition damage a little to grab some more healing power.

Chastein.9874:

Earth Attunement is supposed to be defensive.

Their is defensive and then their is useless and in most cases Earth is useless.

Dagger/Dagger – Terrible and pretty much useless auto attack. A decent at best skill #2 still nothing that great. Then we get onto Magnetic Grasp that loves to bug out and not work – i have had it give out the good old “obstructed” message due to a slight change in the terrain. Earthquake is decent but the cool down is insane and Churning Earth, well that is just useless in 99/9% of situations.

Scepter – Solid Auto attack. A nice defensive skill #2 though the second part could really be better and an average blind. Nothing amazing but i guess its not hugely terrible. Though Scepter Earth isn’t the problem, its the rest of the Scepter skills that aren’t up to it (imo)

Focus – Same issue as Scepter, decent(ish) Earth skills, terrible skills elsewhere. Magnetic Wave is pretty solid and the invul be it on an insane cool down (what a shock, i know) isn’t to bad. It is just let down in all other attunements (again imo)

Staff – Decent, if slow auto attack the condition is rather poor considering its slow speed and damage. Will never under stand why Staff has a MUCH better version of Churning Earth that ground targetable, on a MUCH lower cool down and deals more damage, be it in a smaller range. Magnetic Aura is nice. Unsteady ground is useless most of the time thanks to the insane AoE access to stability and same goes for Shockwave, decent but nothing more.

Part of the problem of Earth being no threat isn’t because it can’t burst people down or anything and NO one is actually saying it should. It is because what it does have on most weapons is rather poor and the few weapons (ignoring staff) that has decent Earth skills is let down by all the other attunements being terrible them being Scepter and Focus.

I have not once said that Earth should be like a powerhourse melt people and take no damage. What it should be able to do and currently what it can’t is make people think about if they should carry on attacking and risk something bad happening. What risk does other classes currently have fighting an Ele in Earth? None.

Now this issue isn’t as bad for all of the weapons. Scepter/Focus has some really nice Earth skills, it just lacks everywhere else and that is the exact opposite of Dagger/Dagger great skills in every attunement – except Earth.

Chastein.9874:

Does Earth in scepter apply any pressure offensively at all?
Stone Shards – clunky auto attack that applies 3 stacks of bleeds.
Rock Barrier – increases toughness
Dust Devil – slow AoE blind

Do you even play staff?
Stoning – clunky auto attack with low damage that applies weakness.
Eruption – More commonly used as a Blast Finisher. Clunky activation time which makes it hard to hit without pairing it with stuns/chills.
Magnetic Aura – Reflects Projectile
Unsteady Ground – Line of Warding clone.
Shockwave – Weak Damage. Applies bleed and a soft CC in form of immobilize.

Have you played D/D and seen the Earth skills? I mean they are pretty much useless and you spend as little time as possible in the attunement. Maybe get a Earthquake knockdown off. “Use” Churning Earth to give yourself a little bit of space before cancelling and going into another attunement. Dagger/Dagger has by far the WORST Earth Skills of ALL the weapons.

If i could make a “Perfect” Earth skill set using all the skills we have. it would be:

1) Stone Shards Auto attack. Solid skill. Can be used at range. Great for Condition builds.

2) Rock Barrier. Decent skill, used for the added Toughness. The 2nd part would need to be buffed a bit though

3) Magnetic Wave – beats out Magnetic Aura due to its melee damage, cripple and its Blast finisher. i think worth the loss of 2 seconds of the reflection as it can be used against other classes as well. Same cool down as well.

4) Eruption. Would need a tweak or 2. I would say lower duration but higher Bleed stacks would be reasonable. make it drop on the current player position rather than it being ground targetable. This beats out Churning Earth in my opinion.

5) Obsidian Flesh. Could do with a cool down reduction but another solid defensive skill

Other contenders:

Earthquake – A nice skill, just let down by its insane cool down.
Shockwave – Has potential would need to be tweaked here and there though cool down would also need to be reduced.
Dust Devil – Kinda feel like its lacking something. Maybe a Cripple or Torment or something

Will the runeset in PvE/WvW be nerfed? or will it just have another version added for S/TPvP? I wonder if the duration bug will even get fixed…

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Perplexity is getting added to sPvP.

Thats terrible news. Pretty much all condition builds except Necro will run this. Condi warriors would be insane with that trait they have for Confusion on Interrupt (which has no ICD) as well as this…

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

D/D eles will get 3x methods of interrupt… with perplexity being applied on interrupt, as well as weakness, as well as damage…

It’s gonna be mean.

I don’t see it ever being “mean”. Earthquake is easy to dodge, Updraft is pretty much excepted after Ride The Lightening. Guessing the third one you mean is Shocking Aura, which doesn’t really work unless its against Chain skills.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Well, what would you want? A trait in earth that makes you invulnerable while attuned to earth?

Combined with elemental attunement, this trait is going to make switching to earth make you be extremely tanky.

Did you want a god mode? That’s what it seems like you’re asking for. I’m actually thoroughly surprised they made THIS a trait!

It’s all about adaptability, and with this trait were going to see ele’s make a come-back into the meta.

I don’t see how we can complain about these buffs.

PS, the 6 steps in which you named is how I already play but with elemental attunement and the protection it gives. I’m quite positive it’s how a bunch of other eles play as well.

No. I would rather have had a Condition based trait. Maybe change the 25point trait as well because considering its in the defense and condition line, it being about power damage makes no sense.

Its all well and good not being able to be crit hit, the problem comes with the fact that the attunement is just simply awful when it comes to pressure. It doesn’t matter that you are just taking say 3k damage from high damaging skills when the fact you are no threat what so ever means they CAN just keep attacking and attacking until they force you out of the attunement.

It will become just like Diamond Skin after its newness has worn off.

ThiBash.5634:

Have you tried Zealot’s gear?

I have no need for Power or Precision. It might be okay on some condition builds but due to the fact that our attacks with auto attacks being particulary weak compared to other classes i find having Power in a condition build to be pointless.

As for Precision, it depends on the build i guess. Mine has little use of Precision bar for the terrible 25point trait in Arcane. Other than that i have no need for it.

oZii.2864:

Glass half empty

A thief 90% in stealth isn’t doing damage! Or only doing damage 10% of the time.
Thief takes that trait loses sustain no shadow rejuvenation!
How often do you think you actually hit good thieves in stealth?

Sure, maybe not dealing damage. Just getting into a position where they can do insane burst. While in stealth AoE damage is, well was a threat to them with this trait they will be even harder to kill. True they lose that, not all of them take it. It would all depend on how much damage they could reduce compared to the healing they would gain.

Often enough if you are at least semi decent yourself. Using Burning Speed, Ring of Fire, Cold of Cold and such can still be great against them while in stealth. Though now they would take 50% less damage.

Trying to see if i can get around 1,000Healing Power without sacrificing too much. 1,000 Healing Power would grant around 3000 healing per a cast. If you could get that along with Written In Stone then it would be pretty decent.

Rather hard to get around 2,000Toughness, 1,000 Healing Power and a reasonable amount of Health. Debating if i could some how sacrifice some Condition damage. I have nearly 2,000 when fully buffed.

Its just tricky trying to decrease Condition damage but increase Healing Power

Thief get a trait that gives them a 50% damage reduction while in stealth…they spend like 90% of a fight in stealth. Ele get a trait that stops crit hits in a a attunement you don’t want to use as much as possible.

oZii.2864:

@1600 condition damage

Burning = 728 DPS

Poison = 240
Bleeding = 123
Torment = 91

Total= 454 DPS w/ no burning (LOL)

6 bleeds = 738 DPS

Interesting, never used Burning on either so i haven’t really noticed it. I mean Flamethrower (Engi) is solid enough. Even just for the Tool skill. So never really used the trait. Taking the Might and Toughness trait for it as well, but think i am in the few that even use Flamethrower, but it just rocks on a Asura hahaha

Chastein.9874:

If Burning is useless on Necro, then why are there specific builds that take advantage of Dhuumfire? Free burning is also huge for Engineers since it will allow to have access to that condition while using the more defensive set of Pistol/Shield.Why do you think Burning is not a huge deal for both classes? Because you don’t even use it as you stated yourself.

Now you cry about Stone Heart? Because you obviously won’t be able to utilize it as you’re probably one of those Dagger/Dagger Eles that just swap attunements to spam available skills. If it doesn’t help you specifically means it’s useless? Grow up dude.

Not every Condition build uses it. Most use it because it is easy. That and the fact that They feel the need to take it after all the nerfs the class got just to get it. “Cry” How exactly am i “crying” about it? I just don’t think it will be around after its new feel has worn off, just like what happened with Diamond Skin.

It could be a decent trait, it won’t be the savior of the class though. It will just be expected for ele to be

sorrow.2364:

Meteor Shower does not get the red circle. It was in the fake patchnotes.
Also, I can’t find anywhere devs saying that tornado+MS combo will not be possible after patch.

The FGS fix was much needed though.

Not sure where i heard about Tornado and MS, i know it was on the forums somewhere. Maybe not from a dev. Dunno it was awhile ago. Should really be fixed anyway.

Interesting, i am sure i read a Dev comment in a post about it. Maybe i misread it.

Meteor Shower is getting the red circle. I heard that it also wont be possible to use the Meteor Storm and Tornado combo that they are making the buff from Tornado ONLY affect Tornado skills. Not sure how true, but that would be a nerf to another Elite that is below average as it is.

Tornado and GoE both need some big changes and buffs they are both lacking and both near pointless in most situations. Would be nice if Tornado got projectile reflection and increased toughness. I would remove GoE and make an elite that turns US into big elementals

sorrow.2364:

Blaming WvW imbalances to PvP was the most hilarious post I’ve ever seen in this forum from ages.

How many changes have been made to this game based around S/TPvP. The mode is dead and Anet can’t see that still thinking they can turn it into an eSport. S/TPvP IS the reason why this game has such poor balance.

sorrow.2364:

Remove burning from necros and you’ll wipe away almost half of its DPS.
Again, if you want a trait to carry you and to make yourself an invulnerable god, then I think you should change game. Perhaps, try some singleplayer games.

Yeah. That is wrong. I have NEVER used Dhuumfire on my Condi Necro. Never have and never will. Burning being half its DPS lol. Sure its a decent bit, 50% not a chance. As i have said, they have plenty of other conditions that are just as much a threat.

sorrow.2364:

You have Ether Renewal to counter Signet of Spite.
Also, if you let the Necromancer stack conditions on you by autoattacking, then you’re putting no pressure at all on him while you’re doing absolutely nothing to avoid the conditions being stacked on you.
In that case, I think you deserve to just die because you’re pretty much standing still doing nothing.

Ah, you are talking about specific scenarios where you KNOW you will be fighting a specific build type. That doesn’t happen in WvW. I have gone DAYS without even seeing some classes. That is just how it is. Sure if you are dueling or something and KNOW what will happen, then yeah that could be viable. Long channel time and easily interrupted but yeah its possible.

sorrow.2364:

SoR makes sense only on S/x fresh air builds, otherwise other heals are just better. In that case, you can easily outheal the condition pressure along with poison by just doing your average DPS rotation, which includes loads of casts.
You really have no idea of how much DPS burning supplies to condition builds.

So it makes more sense on a weapon that has long cast times of its skills and the fact it doesnt proc on channel skills more than once. You think its BETTER on Scepter than on dagger that has 3/4second cast time auto attacks? O.o

sorrow.2364:

Again, Stone Heart does not makes you an invulnerable beast, but of course it helps, mainly against direct damage builds, but also against condition builds.

Barely against Condition builds. even without Burning both Engineer and Necromancer have the conditions to kill you. Even Warrior and Thief have builds that would melt you even inside on Earth with this trait.

I think it could be decent, i don’t think it will be anything that saves the class or anything. Within a week everyone will expect all eles to be running it so will just hold back when they know you are in Earth.

Conjures need serious work, they are pretty much picked up. Hvae one skill used example – Ice Bow and its AoE and then dropped. The charge limit is to low, the fact that auto attacks towards it is stupid.

1) Remove Charge Limit
2) Adjust the damage of skills
3) remove the second dropped version, make it a optional trait.

Estarioll.5781:

d/d or s/d bunker condition build theorycrafting using Stone heart (yes, i’m aware there’s no giver’s ascended items, was just too lazy to click on exotic)

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoYhcMqc25wxBf0AARhLmMeoxIAUUkzMA-z0BBohBk8Gk6AIFtIasl1FRjVJjIqWpEjQAKmDA-w

My opinion:

Don’t go with Rabid. The Precision is pretty pointless. Even with Torment sigil. I have that and no Precision (about 8% crit chance) and it still procs nicely. We also don’t have any traits or skills that have added effect for condition builds.

I would go with a mix of Dire and Apothecary. I would also change the weapons to apothecary as well. The added condition Duration isn’t needed. The food Duration will be fine enough and you can still keep plenty of Conditions on the target with just 40% duration (Koi Cakes are the way to go, only 20min duration but a lot cheaper)

The accessories are pretty much the same as mine. Though i have Apothecary rings. Everything else is the same. Same sigils, same runes.

Traits Wise, i would replace Rock Solid and go with the Condition one instead. Strength of Stone that would increase your Condition damage to just over 1,700. Serrated Stones is decent but i take the protection on Auras trait myself. Soothing Mists and 20% lower Water cool downs are my Water traits.

Utilities wise – I take Arcane Shield, Armor of Earth and Signet of Earth with Reaper of Grenth as my elite (condi Human elite) the added toughness from SoE is very nice and both Arcane Shield and AoE both have great uses.

Zephyron.7081:

What made you think it wasn’t serious? Yes, it is a serious post.

The fact you want ele to have 18k health.
The fact you want the attunement swap to be 3 seconds.
The fact you want ele to have stealth

…

1) No. 18k would be over kill. 13k-15k would be more ideal.

2) Something like effectiveness of Arcane skills could be interesting.

3) I agree, some of the weapon and utilities are overkill on the cool down front.

4) No. No more stealth. they could just up our defensive options by adjusting our heals and defensive skills.

5) Would much prefer Pistols and/or Hammer myself. Or they could just make Conjure weapons actually viable. Excluding FGS, though when its used more for mobility than anything else that says something.

6) Personally don’t like the trait and it will become niche and barely used after a while. We have decent survivability, we just need tweaks to healing and starting health.

Rocketmist.5436:

Looking at your build now, drake’s breath seems to be hitting pretty hard XD, still you gotta get up and close with 15k hp and only 2700 armor, also it doesn’t seem like you have any good auto attacks the stack conditions wells like scepter has in earth. But yeah you still have decent power on d/d attacks and way better healing. Are you thinking about trying to use stone heart at all with d/d condi?

I just did a bunch of 1v1s just now with my build still missing the traits in obsidian sceptum and won a couple vs mesmers, won another vs a staff ele, and lost vs eviscerate warrior. These new traits will do wonders vs these crit warriors and crit thieves, can’t wait XD.

Overall I think your build is pretty neat and would like to test it out myself maybe too, but I don’t think its fully able to take advantage of stone heart. Also earth 25 punishes you for dodging slightly too, so you have some dis-synergies with evasive arcana.

Anyway, its cool to see condi builds, im sure we’ll see more after the patch ^^

I run with Fortitude buff, so i have between 18-20k health when it hits 5 stacks. I have plenty high Toughness as well. Not quite sure why i had Elemental Power selected as i don’t run that – i run with Signet of Earth and run with around 2,000Toughness which helps a lot with the lowish health.

Yeah the Scepter Auto attack in Earth is rather nice and wish D/D Earth had the same thing. Auto attacks don’t really bother me. I normally auto attack in Air as its better for damage, faster and such. With my Burns alone doing 800+ Tick damage, auto attacks aren’t really a worry if they are rather low damage wise.

I am not sure about Stone Heart. Having it work in what is rather a terrible attunement especially on D/D isn’t that great. So you take less damage. Being in that attunement means you are no threat anyway. I have been thinking about seeing what my build would be like with a 0/0/30/20/20 build.

Written in Stone could be quite handy with the fact i run with Signet of Restro and Signet of Earth a lot. Other options could be Signet Mastery, Earth’s Embrace, Serrated Stones, Stone Splinters, Rock Solid and Geomancers Freedom. Some varying traits some offense, some defensive. The added Toughness and Condition damage could be welcome as well. Could Mean that i could swap a few bits out and maybe grab that little bit more Healing Power See if i can get Signet of Restro to give 300+ healing per a cast would be quite nice.

The only real issue i have (which most eles have) is Condition classes. I mean i CAN beat some, but it comes down to the player and such. Dagger main hand helps a lot with the direct damage builds with Thieves and Warriors that stun/interrupt can be a life saver and with Confusion it works great.

Seeing as Earth 25 only affects direct damage, i have no need for it. I wouldn’t waste traits on a condition build for direct damage. When you have plenty Burning that can tick for 800+ damage as well as Poison, Torment, Confusion and such as well. Direct damage isn’t that great. I actually don’t like the Earth 25 trait. It doesn’t fit the Trait line nor the attunement seeing as its more about defense and conditions than it is about Direct damage. Now if that was a 10% increase to condition damage when at full endurance, then we would have something decent.

Even less so when you have such low Power. I would take dodging and having that damage removed from a dodge than i would not want to dodge just to get a tiny increase in damage – not that great an idea with Condition builds on ele.

Condi is much better with D/D much better access to Burning which is our key condition. Most of the skills in Scepter is more about direct damage than condition. The only area where Scepter is better is Earth Auto attack, much better on Scepter but that is about it when it comes to Scepter Vs Dagger when thinking about Condition Builds.

Drakes Breath has AoE Burning that in my build is potential for more than 14,000 Burning Damage. Burning Speed is solid direct damage ans the Burning is very nice and works great against groups. Scepter Just can’t do the same Burning. The Auto attack is single target and slow. Dragons Tooth is nice direct damage but in a condition build it is rather poor and easily dodged. Phoenix is exactly the same, great in power builds near useless in condition builds.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEEQJAoYncMcMonhwhFOsNwohyB8rdJOAQUAzLDFi8R5BNzYDA-zkCB4MIIOBkWAg8Oh5RRMTaIrl1FRjVJTIVPLy6GYkCAmpRA-w

My current Condition build, i swap Corruption out once it hits 25 stacks for Sigil of Doom for more access to different conditions.

Also those talking about Glyph of Elemental Power – Don’t waste your time. I did some testing with it. It has a TERRIBLE proc rate. It would proc 4-5 times during the 30second duration. Some times it would proc within a few seconds of another proc and then go 10+ seconds without proccing at all.

I tried it with Scepter and Dagger in different attunements and it was just not worth it. It can’t have a 20% chance to proc because even using Dagger Air for the full duration like 55-60 attacks and it would never proc more than 5 times. It just isn’t worth it.

Rocketmist.5436:

Question though, why would we need any precision in a build like this? Seems like one of the best things about condition damage is to have high dps it only takes up 1/3 slots in gear you need.

I have no Precision gear in my build. No traits or anything proc with Crit effects so it is pretty much wasted. Sure you get a little extra damage but at the cost of defensive stats. I run with Toughness and Vitality on a lot of my gear. I have 8% Crit Chance and 3% Crit damage from a Jewel that i have been to lazy to replace and it doesn’t really bother me.

All my conditions do the work, i just have to keep myself alive and Air D/D is great as it is very fast attacking and deals like 5-600 damage per a hit which is fine for me.

Amulet? I am talking WvW. Who cares about S/TPvP. Its a terrible game mode. Which is also the reason why this game is SO unbalanced. As i have said – i have played with BOTH characters as condition builds and not taken either Burning trait. Sure, it will take longer – does not taking it really decide who will win and who will lose? No.

Slow? Like all Necromancer attacks stack conditions. Even Auto attack Scepter stacks 2 different conditions every 1.5seconds. Then you have the Spite signet and PLENTY of other access to conditions. They DON’T need Burning, they did just fine before it was introduced the only reason some take it is because of the nerfs they got because of it so it kind of seems a loss if they don’t. That doesn’t mean it is a defeat if they don’t take it.

You mean Signet of Restoration – i have over 800Helaing Power. It heals for not even 300 per a cast and remember the signet becomes weaker with certain weapons as well. Now, if only these condition classes didnt have easy access to Poison as well as the MANY other conditions…Oh wait. They do.

TheflamingWolf.5861:

tornado = 15 sec
armor of earth= 6sec another 6sec from trait
rock solid = 2sec
also mistform is a bit similar to stability
boonduration is quite strong on ele so the 6s from earth armor become 9s if you spec for it

Oh so you’re counting Elites. That is just silly seeing as its removed once you leave it. Even if you leave early the stability is removed. The MOMENT an ele goes Tornado he is a HUGE target thanks to the fact you are pretty much cannon fodder for all the range and anyone that has stability on themselves. With no added Toughness or anything you’re going to melt.

I have already stated the duration the cool down of BOTH Armor of Earth and its trait. I see you don’t mention the cool down of either, strange huh. Also Boon duration is getting nerfed, which hurts ele the most because they rely on boons to you know – not die.

Mist Form, in which you can still be affected by certain skills. Also, with a nice long cool down. Intersting as well that you have no comment about ele having the lowest health, lowest armor, highest cool downs. The stability they have is fine. It is in no way in need of fixing.

hooma.9642:

sure, thats why no condition builds trait for burning on crit or bleed on crit with traits and runes. oh and because that extra condiapplication via trait without cooldown is so bad, that all condi players use settlers amulett and not rabid.

somehow i must missed the qq about dhuumfire.

/sarcasm

You think that ONE condition is the WHOLE build of Necro. Burning is but one condition, it means nothing when they have SO much access to pretty much every other condition the game.

Removing Burning – will it hurt? Of course, its a nice damaging condition. Will it affect the outcome? No. People seem to think that this trait is going to be some super trait against power and condition builds – it wont be.

When classes (Engi and Necro) can just spam conditions to their hearts content, losing ONE condition won’t define how the fight goes. It will just mean it will take them a little longer to kill you. Though the same will be said about Power builds this will just mean it takes longer to kill the ele. Nothing else.

My condi Necro NEVER ran Dhuumfire. Because it wasn’t needed. Necro have plenty of access to conditions that Dhuumfire isn’t needed. Same goes for Engi my Engi never ran Incendiary Powder. Because again it wasn’t needed. Sure it means you won’t kill people as quickly but it doesn’t change the fight.

My Mesmer deals 2k damage without even critting on auto attack. This trait might be decent but after a while it will end up like Diamond Skin, barely used.

What do you do when the duration or usage limit on the Conjure is up? You are back with the TERRIBLE Earth skills . This is unless you stay with your dropped Conjure (and no one else steals it) this is simply not possible in so much of the game that it doesn’t mean anything.

25 skill presses (with trait) means nothing. The usage limit is affected by auto attacks, counts when you hit nothing, count when blocked, Aegis, invul and everything else. The duration limit should be enough that they should not need charges at all.

They should turn Conjures into something like Kits except FGS of course and the skills themselves would need to be adjusted but if that were to happen (which it wont :/) then it could have something good but until then Conjures won’t be viable – just a niche used mostly for a single skill and then dropped.