Guild Wars 2

Chaotic Storm.2815:

possible it was being influenced by outside sources, WvW buffs, other players shared passives. hard to tell

The only thing it could be is the bonuses from WvW, seeing as i am seeing it when i am solo as well. It is just strange that the tool tip doesnt get properly updated to state the correct healing.

ThiBash.5634:

I didn’t. Could it be because of the PvP nerf not being shown in the tooltip by chance?

This is from WvW, which doesn’t get affected by the PvP nerf i believe. I tend to get MORE healing from it than the actual skill says.

ThiBash.5634:

No argument there. The topic has derailed but it did reveal something useful: warriors get the same healing regardless healing power.

Actually this is wrong. Even though it simply wouldn’t happen. A warrior COULD go full healing Power. It would make the heal from the Signet be 483 per a second (1817 Healing Power) while the heal from Signet of Restoration would be 384 Per a cast with the same Healing Power.

So that would mean:
warrior: 91 Healing Per a second increase
Ele: 182 Healing Per cast increase

But this is remember going to be lower due to channel skills only proccing the heal once and you have to continually attack – something that is simply impossible in fights. Due to fear, knockbacks, stuns and such.

Something to note: I have seen that the “Healing Per Cast” isn’t actually right, the number would actually be LOWER than the heal i was getting from it. Anyone else notice this?

pmnt.4067:

Tornado needs a rework. It’s an AoE skill that blows its target out of the AoE range. The blinds on cc’d targets are wasted. It locks all other skills but still lacks defense against ranged targets. It needs ridiculous stat boosts to deal damage that are better used for meteor shower.

Tornado needs a clear purpose. If it’s cc, get rid of the stat boosts (maybe even of all damaging components except the finsher), but give it projectile destruction like Swirling Winds. If it’s damage, delete the periodical blow out, but give it some active defenses. AoE blind/knockdown/blowout would make so much more sense if they were player-activated and not passive ticking.

It needs some tweaks for sure. The “Fake” patch notes listed that it was getting Projectile reflection IF this turns out to be true it would be a GREAT change to it. I do think that it needs to have Toughness increased though like other Melee Transformations.

You have to actually USE the knockback, if you don’t want to knock them back – Don’t. I use it in WvW and will use the Knockback when on bridges, near cliffs and such but if i am not then i will use the Blind and Lightening one.

It would be nice if the Knockback inflicted Bleeding and if they added one that could turn it into a Fiery-Tornado that inflicts burning.

As i said they are PLAYER activated. The knockback is the #3 skill. If you don’t want to knock them back – Don’t use it.

Jabberwock.9014:

negativeview.8615:

This trait needs to be looked at. It’s not just the trait but the build people are running with it. If you are playing any condi class beside say a warrior you simply cannot do enough damage to ‘break’ the diamond skin and eles know this. The trait should be reduced to 97% hp or just simply removed all together. The ele will just be immune, immune, immune. I dueled a diamond skin ele for 15 mins on my condi engi was only able to finally win by using smack when he was close enough and had his blink on CD.. otherwise he would just run away heal and come back into the fight. If people wonder why this game is dying its because of the people developing it. You guys need to fire the people that are working on your classes because seriously some of the things in this game are just straight kittened.

This is a riot. You WON the duel with a build that is MEANT TO BE COUNTERED by ds ele, yet are still complaining that ds is op. Is ele considered such a free kill these days that they are not allowed to put up a fight? It’s obvious that this ele had to sacrifice all damage in order to pick up diamond skin and good healing traits, so I doubt he could even scratch you. The idea that it took “too long” for you to kill him is the most entitled thing I’ve heard in a while. The arrogance of some players is astounding…

And 97% just makes me rofl. Almost any attack, even a necro mark will break 3% of ele’s tiny hp pool with ease.

This is the problem. People in this game expect to be handed free kills. The fact that he still WON and is still complaining that it is overpowered says it all. Some people just don’t any sort of challenge at all and would rather be handed everything on a silver spoon.

The fact the trait sucks and most eles want it to be replaced with something a little more useful should say enough about it. I havent even seen an ele run it for a long time and even if they do, it is SO easy to get them below the 90% health mark anyway that it makes very little difference.

I have fought against this build on my Condi Necro, Condi Mesmer and Condi Engineer who are no longer condition builds Due to the fact my Condi ele is much more fun and rewarding but i had NO issues killing ele with Diamond skin, does it take a few extra seconds sure, is it 30 trait point talent worthy? Not a chance.

I am pretty sure i read that they are removing this. It is clearly unintended so it needs to be removed. Though, why Anet hasn’t bothered fixing this yet i don’t know – but then again so many times we wonder what Anet is doing so who knows….

juno.1840:

EscataFlayer.8470:

Honestly, change the skill. Every 25% health mark you hit, (75% 50% 25%) you remove 5 conditions from yourself. 15 sec cool down. It gives the benefit of condition protection and defense, but you aren’t over powering either side. No too heavy on preventing all conditions, allowing more conditions to be placed, no struggle to kill a target just to apply conditions, and a good balance to allow self sustainment for the ele to heal itself and not have to stay at a certain tier of health.

Thoughts?

I think would be more powerful than Diamond Skin — maybe OP as it should be easy to push your health back above one of those thresholds (and thereby gain the removal again when you tick back down from all the condi’s).

If they made it so that each “milestone” has a 30second cool down. Each one being separate of the others. So then if you fall below 75% you trigger the first and it goes on cool down, then you would want to try and stay as above 50% for as long as possible.

So in reality. It would be:

100% – 76% = nothing
75% = full clear 1 (30 second cool down)
74% – 51% = Nothing
50% = Full clear 2 (30 second cool down)
49% – 26% = Nothing
25% = Full Clear 3 (30 second cool down)
24% – 0% = Nothing

So you would want to stay in the “nothing” zones as long as possible so that the one above has time to come back off cool down.

Make it so that it removes ALL conditions at the set intervals, each with a cool down of 20 seconds each, that don’t share a cool down and it might be decent.

Then it would be next to useless considering all the condition spamming. Maybe make it so that it removes ALL conditions when you reach 75%, 50% and 25% and it might be okay.

Even then i dont think it would be enough to stop being killed by a condition spamming build.

Weapon swap is rather pointless, we have such a limited access to them. Once they add pistols and Hammers, then i would be interested in weapon swap. I am happy with D/D, it just needs a few tweaks here and there to bring it up to the standard of certain other classes.

I would LOVE D/D to get Magnetic Aura though. I was thinking that it could be done by changing Arcane Shield to Arcane Aura – grants a 5 second aura based on your attunement on a 45 second cool down.

It wasn’t that Ele were OP really, it was at the time most other classes weren’t strong enough to really counter it. You could put the old Bunker D/D back in the current Meta and it wouldn’t be as strong now due to all the buffs other classes have gotten and the fact that people know exactly how to play against ele now.

Iavra.8510:

Well, at least staff eles are capable of 6k autoattacks in fire. I wouldn’t really want to buff this one at least.

That is true. Some of them are “okay” Air Dagger Auto could do with a little tweak, Fire, Water and Earth Daggers range from “Meh” to “totally useless” Fire could do with a tweak, maybe add Burning to it. Water could have Torment maybe added to the auto? and Earth needs a redesign, the Bleeding is nice the animation and the way the skill deals damage is not so nice. Maybe make it like Scepter Earth? Throwing the dagger and it bleeds targets on way and on way back – kinda like a boomerang or how Water Auto works i guess would better say it lol

Muchacho.2390:

While i agree that eles autoattacks are most of the time are weak, there a weapons of other professions that have even worse autoattacks. Those also would need to be buffed then.

Except, they all have weapons that are strong attacks…Ele has none as it is. So at least other classes HAVE high damaging auto attacks already.

Lostwingman.5034:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

That would be WAY too hard, having to make a WHOLE other set of attunement skills for each weapon?

“independent of what weapon you are equipped with”
That means what weapon you are equipped with doesn’t matter, it will be the same skills.

That would be even harder considering Staff, Scepter and Dagger are all different range. How would the range of these skills be decided?

That would be WAY too hard, having to make a WHOLE other set of attunement skills for each weapon?

Maybe have it so this “deep attunement” buffs your currently set of skills but at a cost of putting all other attunements on a 10second cool down or something?

No, they all only affect direct damage as far as i know.

Personally, i think Elemental surge is a decent trait that could be amazing with a little work. The Blind it offers in Air attunement is AMAZING. Works so well with Arcane Shield and Arcane Power, The Burning is great as well. The Immbo from Earth is simply poor in my opinion.

What they should have done is make it so that each Arcane skill has something different when it comes to conditions. They could also add new conditions just for that like Torment in Earth attunement and Confusion in Air when using a certain Arcane Skill or something.

Yeah those 20 points are simply better invested elsewhere, we can’t and won’t melt people in seconds when it comes to condition builds which is the way ALL condition builds SHOULD work rather than bursting them with conditions and then spamming conditions until they die. We lack the defense that would make taking less points in Earth/Water a possibility in the classes current design.

As for duration, The 40% food is enough anyway. Burning is our key condition and we have PLENTY of access to it that we dont really need to try and force as much as we could. I tried a 10/0/10/20/30 build and while i was getting 85% duration for Burning and 50% duration for other conditions the loss of condition damage, which was about 350 in total was much worse than what i gained going 10 into Fire that i changed back – it just simply isn’t worth it currently

Lostwingman.5034:

They are setting us up to nerf us even harder down the line.
You know, no fun to hit someone when they are already down and all that.
/paranoia

…Is it still Paranoia if you are right? I can see us ending in a WORSE state than we are now if they over buff us and we become the new Warrior broken class. We do need buffs, but rather just tweaks and little improvements here and there. We don’t need huge changes or anything.

your first build would have been owned hard by quite a lot of different builds. Your newest build isn’t that much better in my opinion. You lack health. Even with 2,000Toughness you will still be hit HARD by BS thieves and can do anywhere from 6-10k+ in a single hit.

While healing Power is nice, i would swap some of the Settlers gear out for Dire which will also increase your Condition damage at the cost of Toughness as well. You could then make up for that with a weapon that has Corruption on it and swap it out once you hit 25 stacks.

I run with Apothacary weapons myself, they add 90Healing which is nice, As i run with all but the Chest and Legs as Toughness/Vit/Condition Damage and the Chest and Legs as Toughness/Condition Damage/healing Power.

Traits wise, i would swap Earth’s Embrace(III) for Elemental Shielding(V) The utilities i run with are Glyph of Elemental Power, Armor of Earth and Arcane Shield. Personally i wouldnt run a triple cantrip condition build. Now with that in mind – i would swap Cantrip Mastery(III) for Soothing Wave(V) and Soothing Disruption(IX) for Aquamancer’s Alacrity(VIII) the Arcane traits are the same as the ones i run.

This is my exact build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEEQJAoYncMcMonhwhFOsNwohyB8rdJOAQUAzLDFh8R5BNzYDA-zkCB4MIIOBk8OhkHA5RRMTaIrl1FRjVJTIVPLy6GYkCYRpRA-w

I swap SoR out for Ether Renewal against condition builds. Inside WvW i run with the Vitality Buff so normally have about 19-20k health at this time of the week thanks to the other buffs that you get.

I also run with a 3rd dagger in place of the one with Torment on that grants Corruption stacks so when that is full i run with about 1,800Condition Damage

It works rather well, I mean its not as easy as the spam happy condition builds of other classes but i like it, works really good in group fights which i mostly do with my guild either during raids or small parties. Solo wise, it really depends. You can win, but you can also lose which i guess is true for every ele build it isn’t going to be a 100% win ratio.

Even with Ether Renewal and such, condition builds are going to be a big threat. I find Mesmer condition builds to be the easiest to fight against because they have rather poor condition cleansing. The rest can be VERY tough and its about knowing when you stand no chance and can make your escape.

The problem with the Fire trait line is the same for all ele builds – it offers nothing that outsets the BIG loss you take from losing traits and points elsewhere. It has some interesting traits that is for sure, the problem is they are not currently worth losing other traits for.

Though Razor, curious as to where you got your other 10 trait points from

Baladir.2736:

Whit.2385:

Vash Past.4385:

If conditions/burning were really that useful, why is Berserker build massively prevalent in meta?

Umm, except that berserker is only the “meta” in pve. In pvp its condi-tank all the way….

Yes, and eles don’t get to play.

I play Condi Ele. I do fine in PvE but i rarely play that anyway. In WvW i solo, small group, zerg and blob with the same build and i do great in all of them. When solo i have to watch out for other condition builds due to the fact every other condition build is about spamming conditions and even with Ether Renewal we just dont have the condition removal possible for it.

Mesmer I think is the one best to go against as they have even worse condition removal than anyone else. I have had duels against them in OS. Won some lost some. Warrior can be one of those if they don’t trait for condition removal even as a condi spec they can still be killed. Necro, Engineer and Thief are just near impossible. Necro has the “I win button” aka Spite. Engineer just spams bombs and Grenades and Thief will spam conditions, jump into stealth and spam the same conditions again until they go back into stealth and just repeat it. The Venomshare and Thieves Guild combo is pretty insane as well.

Vash Past.4385:

If conditions/burning were really that useful, why is Berserker build massively prevalent in meta? Because condition builds don’t apply any real pressure, which is what they are supposed to do. Enemy should know when they get hit with lots of condit. damage that it’s time to end battle quick or retreat, but instead, they ignore the petty damage and continue doing whatever they were doing. Again, burning was massively more relevant in GW1…

I am guessing all you play is PvE. Condi has been the Meta in WvW and in STPvP for A LONG time. To the point the ONLY class i havent seen in a Condi build is Guardian, i believe they have like 1 condition anyway so….

Roaming it is Condi, Group play it is Condi. The only area where Condi is weakened is Zergs and Blob fighting and even then as a Condi ele myself, i still get LOADS of kills even with my Condi set up. Because the defense against condi is weakened the moment the fighting starts because it is simply impossible for everyone to stick 100% together because they would die to zerker builds but splitting up and they become targets for condi builds.

Zerker is pretty much out numbered when it comes to both Solo and Small group fights. It is only more numerous in Zerg blob fights because that is where most of the zerker builds stay.

I would say that even the defensive skills, warrior is better. Better duration, lower cool down the works. I wish that Arcane Shield was turned into Arcane Aura:

Arcane Aura:
Grant yourself an Aura based on your attunement.
Fire: Fire Shield – 5 second duration
Water: Frost Aura – 5 second duration
Air: Shocking Aura – 5 second duration
Earth: Magnetic Aura – 5 second duration
45second cool down

This would in my opinion be a MUCH better skill than Arcane Shield is currently. Would be useful for every build, every weapon as well as each of them are missing Aura that would really benefit them.

ThiBash.5634:

Fine, Healing Signet is better. But that doesn’t mean anything, because skills and traits cannot be compared without considering everything else.

You compared SoR with Soothing Mists, Regen and using the heals in Water against Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing. Could we take into account the immunity skills and such that the warrior has?

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it.

Funny how you dismiss several posts of arguments and calculations just by saying that. I think I’m done discussing things with you. In general I mean. It always ends up the same way. No arguments, just repeating that you’re right and that everyone agrees with you.

I am talking about How strong it is as a heal, comparing Healing Signet to Signet of Restoration ALONE nothing else, Healing Signet is MILES better. Anyone can see that. For you to have to spend trait points and use other skills JUST to be a tiny bit better than a Heal that is equip and forget, no constant skill use to get healed or anything.

I do Kinda like the Signet of Malice idea, Heal per a target hit would be a nice change i think, not really a fan of the spam auto attacks even if you are hitting no one just to get heals way that it currently is.

I have already proven that using the heal Vs Heal which one is better. That is simply it. Having to go into other skills and gain traits to make it just a little better while continually having to use skills Vs someone who equips it and does nothing says it all.

Though it is strange that a class that has so much more health and armor from the start, has better defensive skills and on lower cool downs as well also need a heal that is that much stronger than ours…

It would be broken. It would need to have some sort of requirement. Like the Lower your health is the higher the increase of damage done by Burning or/and other conditions. For example:

100%-90% : 10% Increase
90%-80% : 15% Increase
80% – 70% : 20% Increase
60% – 50% : 25% Increase
50% – 40% : 30% increase
40% – 30% : 35% Increase
30% – 20% : 40% increase
20% – 10% : 45% increase
10% – 0% : 50% Increase

I am D/D, we have INSANE access to Burning. Having it deal double the damage at no cost would be insanely broken. I run with Perplexity runes, Torment and Geomancy Sigils as well. I can get some nice number of conditions out to cover Burning – this was introduced we would be just another broken Condition Build.

I agree that Ele could use some help when it comes to conditions, but we DON’T want to become just another broken Condition build.

well they have traits that make you immune to Conditions from either being below 25% or being above 90% – why not a trait that increases Condition damage by say 25-50% -100% would simply be too much while being under 50% Health.

They could even make it the lower our health is the bigger the increase is

I would simply be broken. I deal like 850Tick Burning as it is. Imagine that Burning Doubled and i have near Perma access to it as well. No chance this idea would ever get into the game. It would have to be like while the Ele is under 50% health or something so you risk dying for the higher Burning Damage or something

oZii.2864:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

The reason you cannot make Signet of Restoration as powerful as Healing Signet is because of the rest of the skills in the elementalist’s kitten nal.

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it. Persoanlly i don’t like the current PER a cast design. Personally think it would be better when you take damage and it heals you for a set % of the damage taken or something.

Though, i don’t think we will ever have it “just right” currently its on the extreme side with Healing Signet on one side where you do nothing and the ele on the other side where you have to be using/spamming skills to be getting heals.

Like signet of Vamperism for Necros who never use that? They can’t even touch a elementalists sustain/burst healing and they get a really weak version of life style on this.

Per cast is fine.

Suggestions = turn Ele in warriors.

Nobody complains about SOR because you have to do something to get the heals

The problem with SOR is channel skills have channels proc the heal should fix the problem with other sets not being able to maximize the heal.

To be fair, they nerfed that skill into the ground before they released it. It was actually pretty decent before they nerfed it, removed stuff and added a 1second ICD. Had it stayed the way it was in the previews i think more people would actually use it.

I would rather see a Trait that decreases the cool down of ALL weapon skills myself, Make it a grand master and 50% and i would be sold. Though again, you would be losing something.

I think the best way for it would be to move Evasive Arcana, split it up and have each affect as part of the 5point traits and then add a new trait in Arcana at Grandmaster for the all in 1 weapon cool down reduction.

ThiBash.5634:

The reason you cannot make Signet of Restoration as powerful as Healing Signet is because of the rest of the skills in the elementalist’s kitten nal.

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it. Persoanlly i don’t like the current PER a cast design. Personally think it would be better when you take damage and it heals you for a set % of the damage taken or something.

Though, i don’t think we will ever have it “just right” currently its on the extreme side with Healing Signet on one side where you do nothing and the ele on the other side where you have to be using/spamming skills to be getting heals.

They should have thought of this from the start. The person mentioning Ele and Engineer – not quite sure what you are getting at, surely this change will buff EVERYONE with Warrior getting buffed the most thanks to the broken trait they have that is a minor trait at that – the only 2 classes that are limited to 2 sigils…Them being Ele and Engineer are the ones that should be questioning this.

Elemental Darkness – Blinds you apply cause other conditions based on attunement (Earth – Torment; Air – Confusion; water – vulnerability; fire – burn) this would open up a lot of combo potentials with the lingering elements

Rather pointless trait because we have one way to apply Blind without having to be in a specific attunement and have a specific weapon on.

Arcane Disenchanter – Arcane skills remove one boom when they hit

It would be better if it stole the Boon in my opinion.

Zephyr Speed – move faster the longer you are attuned to air. (0s – 10%; 5s – 15%; 10s – 20% – 15s – 25%) Make this trait useful at least to walk around out of combat.

No thanks. We have Traveler runes, Signet and trait that can already give 25% Movement speed without having to stay in a specific attunement. Could be useful for Staff maybe but even then it is rather meh.

Elemental recharge – When an att goes on CD all skills from that Att have 20% reduced recharge rate. (We have too long CD for skills making fast att swap almost pointless if we cant use the skills on that att)

Not quite sure, so it would basically mean that you would be pretty much forced into using all the skills in that attunement before swapping out to make the most of the trait? I would rather just have a trait that reduces cool downs of all attunements.

We have decent access to conditions already when you include Sigils and Runes. The problem we have Is that we have no way of bursting all of them and they all have the restriction of having to be in a specific attunement for them to work

Another part of our problem is the Fire trait line, while the Condition Duration trait lines for other classes grant some VERY nice traits. The Fire trait line is very poor and even if it wasn’t the fact we are pretty much forced into Earth, Water and Arcana to some degree it means going fire trait line would not be possible as we would lose to much.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Though you are missing the glaring issue: The fact that the Ele is forced into a specific atatunement and has to cast skills and use skills (CoC and CW) in order to beat a Warrior that is doing NOTHING…

You mean forcing the elementalist to be played like an elementalist? Switching into attunements and using a few skills is part of our normal gameplay.

what Ele stays in Water for that long? Warrior gets just as good healing no matter what weapon they are using and without even having to do anything so you can’t really compare them.

Warrior will get the exact same healing no matter what he is doing (unless he uses the heal active) An ele has to be in Water, has to attack. All a warrior has to do is equip and hes done.

This would NEVER get into the game. I already do up to 850 per a tick Burning. My Drakes Breath does near to 15k Burning…In an AoE and you would want that doubled? As much as i would love it, it would never happen.

Maybe they could add a Trait that gives a bonus effect if you have Burning and Chill on the target or something?

I would also like to see Fire Grab changed -make it so that it instantly removes the Burning you had on a target but does say 75% of its damage upfront that would be pretty nice it should also be a 100% Crit chance against Burning foes, dont understand why it doesnt.

ThiBash.5634:

As you can see in the example above, even at just 15 trait points, the ele outheals the warrior.

Though you are missing the glaring issue: The fact that the Ele is forced into a specific atatunement and has to cast skills and use skills (CoC and CW) in order to beat a Warrior that is doing NOTHING…

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Exactly, i tried to make it so that it was just the healing Signet Vs Restoration, but someone had to include traits.

But as you can see, they do make a difference. In your example, you have the elementalist auto-attacking in water only. In a real fight, the ele would also get their weapon’s healing skills, but soothing mist and regeneration probably wouldn’t get full uptime. But at the same time, the ele could get either healing ripple or lingering elements. Then again, the warrior could get regeneration from an ally. So that makes the actual combat fairly complex. And I can see how you want to avoid that.

However, isolating an issue only works if you can logically assume that there are no other factors and in this case, that doesn’t apply.

My main point here is that if you look at the skills in a vaccuum, you don’t get a fair picture. The warrior wins if it’s just the signet. But if you look at the professions as a whole, then eles can have more (semi-)passive healing than the warrior. But even that doesn’t mean the ele will win because there’s also armor, defensive utilities, etc.

That is true if they use the other skills as well but Cone of cold would only tick once and Cleansing Wave has a rather long cool down. Which at base heals for 1,352 on a 40 second cool down that is 33.8Healing Per second which again isn’t really that great.

Also have to remember that healing is when the Warrior is doing NOTHING. If they attacked with say Hammer, how much healing would the Ele lose out on? Because Signet of Restoration ONLY works while attacking, if you are stunned, knocked down or what ever then you get no healing at all from it.

Though we were simply comparing Healing Signet to Signet of Restoration, granted you added traits and so did i, even if i spent 15 trait points Vs your 25 trait points.

Though we also then get into the health each class has, the armor, the skills. So really it would be to hard to really compare them, though saying that i think the conditions that Warrior has would be enough to negate the passive healing the ele has, then you have the Hammer which would do a good job at stopping the Signet of Restoration heal as well.

I wonder, if the heal would be better suited for when you take damage, rather than when you deal it? Say given a set % of damage dealt is returned as healing. Because i find the current version having to spam skills and auto attacks to get healed is rather a poor design.

You are forgetting that we dont really have 70 trait points to spend. This is because we are pretty forced into certain trait lines, even if they are not what we plan on doing. For example – Water is pretty much a must for at least 10, personally i go 20 for the healing Power and the Vitality. Earth and Arcana can be pretty much must traitlines as well.

Then you have the fact that the trainlines already pretty much have “must” have traits as well.

Fire – rarely see anyone with it so no idea
Air – Fresh Air, Bolt to The Heart, Inscription, Zepyr’s Boon, Air Trainning
Earth – Signet Mastery, Earth’s Embrace, Elemental Shielding, Strength of Stone, Rock Solid, Geomancer’s Freedom, Diamond Skin, Written In Stone
Water – Soothing Wave, Soothing Disruption, Cleansing Wave, Cleansing Water, Powerful Aura
Arcana – Arcane Mastery, Renewing Stamina, Blasting Staff, Elemental Attunement, Evasive Arcana, Elemental Surge

thats just some of them – what one would you replace?
Some of these really could become part of the class as a whole to free up space but until then i don’t think they could be taken without losing another key trait.

Right its been a while since i updated this last – So far its working quite well, great in group fights. Okay in Solo fights, though it loses to other condition builds simply due to the fact we have to fully spec to counter condi so its either Burst them down which wont be happening in a condi build, lose or draw.

So i see after a few posts of mine about Condition builds we seem to have a few more people mentioning and even posting theres

Well, this question is more for you though would help anyone else thinking about a Conditionalist build:

Do you go with Condition Damage or Condition Duration?

My build that i normally run with is 0/0/20/20/30. This build gives me 1,600 Condition damage when i get Corruption stacks. Most of my threat comes from Burning as i run D/D and we have so much access to it Currently i have:

Drakes Breath: 8,736 Potential Burning Damage
Churning Earth: 7,840 Potential Bleeding Damage

Now i was thinking of moving 10 points from Earth and losing Strength of Stone and putting it into Fire and grabbing Ember’s Might – this would be a Condition damage loss of 275 (100 from Trait line and 175 from the Trait) and gaining 10% Condition duration but more importantly (maybe?) 35% increase to Burning Duration

With this change the above skills would look like

Drakes Breath: 10,548 Potential Damage
Churning Earth: 6,960 Potential Bleeding Damage

Churning Earth would be a 880 total damage loss. Which would be like 100 damage per a second or something

But

Drakes Breath would be an increase of 1,812 damage. It would mean 2,637 Potential burning damage from one tick of Drakes Breath Vs 2,184 potential Burning damage per a tick without Burning Embers or any points in Fire.

So what do you guys concentrate on?
Duration or Damage?

This is done with NO food, just 25 stacks of Corruption

Strang.8170:

Well, i once counted the average skill usage in actual combat for fairly spammy d/d (for myself that is), got somewhere around 0.7-0.8 casts per second.

Why is there regen and such included? those are additional investments into traits/weapon choices, both of which warriors can do too to boost the healing.

Exactly, i tried to make it so that it was just the healing Signet Vs Restoration, but someone had to include traits. So i did the same, even spent 15 traits less and only came out as like 700 healing less in 10 seconds and that is with the Warrior doing NOTHING and the Ele going into Water at the very start and then spamming Auto Attack which is 1/2 second cast.

It becomes a bit fuzzy when other skills and such are included but even then when taking account of the cool downs and such i dont think it would make such a huge difference in the end.

ThiBash.5634:

I’ve updated my post and made some calculations on how much healing we can get as an ele (with almost 0 trait investment) compared to the warrior.

Updated my post as well

ThiBash.5634:

phaeris.7604:

Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive

Thats with 0 points in healing.

How much does it heal exactly per second?

392 with just the Signet, no healing Power or anything. So in a way ours is stronger but it requires CONSTANT skill use to be able to get it like that. I think only D/D can keep up with it – if they constantly keep up using skills. Would only be skills that have a cast time of 1/2 second or less.

Then again, ours is 202 per a cast with no healing Power or anything so if you manage to get 2 casts of every second for say a fight that lasts 10seconds. They would get 3,920 healing and we would get 4,040 if we used ONLY Auto attacks from Dagger/Dagger (ignoring Earth as it has a 3/4second cast time) the rest are all 1/2 second so if they have no aftercast or anything we would get an amazing – 120 extra healing, all that for having to spam attacks for the WHOLE of the 10 second fight…

Personally, i don’t it is really worth the trade off. Now we then have to account for all the instant cast skills, but then account for the very long cool downs they have as well…

ThiBash.5634:

At 0 healing power, the ele gets:
Soothing Mist: 80 hp/s
Regeneration: 130 hp/s
Signet of Restoration passive: 202 hp/s
Signet of Restoration active: 131 hp/s
Total: 543 hp/s (412 without Written in Stone)

So assuming you get all the basics, and excluding any heals from weapons, the ele gets more healing than the warrior gets from their signet (you could lose one of them, but then there’s still the weapon heals so that balances it).

So now having to make assumptions on what attunement the they are in, AND having to spend trait points. I was actually being fair with mine. None had any traits or anything.

But okay.

regeneration = 20 Point Trait
Soothing Mists = 5ppoint trait

Adrenal health = 15 Trait points 125 – 360Healing Per 3 seconds. Lets say for arguments sake they have full adrenaline. That is 360 Healing every 3 seconds. Which is 120Healing Per second. Taking this trait then means Healing Signet heals for 400 Per a second, combined with AH that is 520Healing Per a second if they don’t use Burst skills.

So it takes An ele using Healing Signet 25 Trait points to get 207 Healing Per a cast. Lets assume that the Ele stays in Water for the whole fight and just uses Auto attack

207 × 20 = 4,140
So that is Signet of Restoration does 4140 Healing in 10 seconds

816 × 1 = 816
Water Attunement heal is 816 in 10 seconds, lasts for 6 seconds but stays in water

825 × 1 = 825
Soothing Mists lasts 10 seconds so it heals for 825

So that makes it
4140 + 816+ 825 = 5,781.
That is how much healing The Ele would get spamming auto attack for the whole 10 seconds.

400 × 10 = 4,000
That is the healing done by Healing Signet

360 × 3 = 1,080
That is how much Healing Signet would heal in 9seconds. As it procs every 3 seconds

4,000 + 1,080 = 5,080
That is how much healing the Warrior would take in 10 seconds…without doing ANYTHING

So the Ele, has to spend 25 Trait points Vs 15 AND use auto attack in Water to get a massive 701 extra healing in that time…

Lets not forget that Healing Signet active would be 3,560 Vs 3,300 and have a 5second lower cool down. Hell the VERY base with just the healing signet is ONLY 25 healing LESS than the healing of Restoration WITH 150healing power and STILL is 5 seconds lower cool down.

Prysin.8542:

Best solution is to nerf warrior and remove fast hands altogether.
No more need to impose special nerfs to everyone else when one profession can be brought down alongside the rest of us.

Its a stupid trait anyway. So best solution would be to remove the trait altogether and that would solve the issue 100% – Now what is the likelihood of that happening? Slim, Very slim

The Game Slayer.7632:

There would be some serious issues when it comes to meteor shower.

No it wouldnt, The heal is pathetically weak anyway. During the cast you would get what maybe 1k – 2k health. Depending on Healing power and how often it procs, this being Anet it would likely be once every 2 seconds so even that would reduce it.

Compared to Healing Signet, simply put – the heal is a joke.
A passive that heals for MORE and requires NO action on the player side

Vs

A passive that heals for LESS and requires us to pretty much spam auto attacks just to get healing.

eleshazar.6902:

Pretty sure that the developers commented on this in an earlier post, and confirmed that warriors will get more out of this than other classes. Just one more thing to give to warriors that no other class gets…..

#WarriorOP

Don’t all the devs play Warrior as well, thats…convenient.
Sorry but no excuse for this, the Sigils HAVE to be made to work the same for EVERY class they should NOT be better for one specific class

Maybe just remove the Fast Hands trait?

Aveneo.2068:

Rynn.1324:

I once saw someone get burst down by the asura power suit 3 ability, so it obviously needs to be nerfed.

You mean an uplevelled in lvl20 blues who didn’t know he had a dodge button? Or was your response meant as sarcasm?

Someone in a Power Suit is less threatening than someone using their regular weapon skills imo.

or they confused the Asura Elite with Omega Golem lol

Yeah i was around when D/D was insane, personally i dont think it would be as strong now even if they reversed some of the nerf’s due to other classes being buffed so heavily. So think some of them could easily be reverted without actually breaking the class or anything.

Of course we don’t need to be hugely buffed, we just need a few tweaks here and there just to get us up to a point where we dont have to pick Toughness/Vit gear if we don’t want to be one shot. Or don’t have to go Earth, Water or Arcana due to some pretty mandatory traits and lower cool downs on attunement swapping.

Fire for example, i rarely see that used. Maybe 10 points or something but nothing really big into it. Part of that is due to the many crappy traits it has which is fine but what if the traits in it were good….Where would you take points from? Water at the loss of much needed health and healing? out of Arcana at the loss of longer attunement cool downs?

The fact i take a Racial elite 90% of the time as the others are simply lackluster for my build is kind of disappointing. Sure the odd Tornado at thr right time but that may be once or twice a day – if that.

I have made plenty of “what do you think of this build” threads, The last about my Condition build that i am currently using. Its okay. Could it be better with tweaks to the class? Sure, would it ever be as strong as some of the other condition builds? Not a chance. Is it fun? Yes. That’s all that counts to me. Just getting killed by a class that either spend 90% of the fight in stealth or by a class that spams CC with a hammer knowing that we have VERY little access to Stability.

I do think that the Signet needs some improvements, with them it could be rather good.

You must have about 1,200-1,500 Healing Power. I have 798 Healing Power and i get 282 per a cast.

1) Channels – I think skills like Drakes Breath and Cone of Cold should proc the heal on each tick of the channel. Using this heal and then channeled skills is a rather big Healing loss if you go during a reasonable fight.

or

2) Make it per a second. The fact that we have to keep using skills in order to get the heal is rather annoying and broken when you add in the long channel skills we have, the long cool down skills we have and the fact you can’t heal when stunned and such.

If we went with option 2 i think the Healing Per second would need to be improved as it would actually be a loss if it was changed to that but still kept the current healing. I think something in the region of 350-400Healing Per Second would be okay, considering our low health and low armor that is a decent amount

cheese.4739:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Our Niche: Average at everything, best at nothing.

Fixed that for you.

I had a feeling that specifically you would have something to say on that. If you ignore traits then we are good at nothing. So really unless we go full cele on everything and 15 points into each tree we arent really specializing in anything and we are still then just average at everything.

The problem comes when we TRY to specialize at something. We always have a disadvantage that the other classes don’t have. That being our defensive options are SHOCKINGLY weak – Sure we have AoE, Arcane Shield and Mist Form but then take into account the cool downs and such and the effectiveness other classes similar kind of skills and it shows alot.

Then we get into the fact That we NEED points in Water and Arcana. We have no choice. The choice comes in how many points we point in, some think 10 is fine, others 20 and others still think 30 is a must.

The problem is that we can’t really try anything new Earth, Water and Arcana are just to important. Sure you get those that go the Fresh Air scepter build but they have the problem that if someone blocks, immunes, dodges there burst they are pretty much going to down.

It would be nice if we were given a bit more defense in terms of Health/armor and lower cool downs so that we could try other things. Fire trait line for example, seems interesting but i can’t spare any points currently in my build Earth is needed for toughness, Water needed for the healing and Arcana for the attunement cool down reduction and other things like Evasive Arcana.

our niche is pretty much: Meteor Storm and then going Tornado.

Kraljevo.2801:

Agree. I hope they will implement elites with shorter cooldowns. Even 90 seconds (e.g. Renewed focus, Mass invisibility) is quite long, considering that the basilisk venom can be traited to 36 seconds.

I believe this has been discussed before, the only thing we can do is wait and hope for new elites.

Or they could add a specific cool down to the runes instead.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is already, actually. Summons of all types are affected by their master’s condition duration and condition damage. Remember that Ranger Pets are not summons, though (they have their own stats for both).

I know that they are increased by player condition duration, but before that they need to be at least 2-3seconds. 1 second base is AWFUL for an elite that has SUCH a high cool down and is EASILY killed by normal AI mobs, let alone another player.

The only problem i have with most condition builds is that they are all the same it is pretty much just spam as many conditions as you can and keep spamming them. Until that is fixed then Condition builds will continue to control everything as they have more access to conditions on either low cool downs or on auto attacks than anyone has access to removals.

Sure you can make a build PURELY to counter conditions but you won’t beat them and in the end you will still likely die, it will just take longer. Then what happens when you come up against other types of build? That ONE build you have JUST to counter conditions is simply useless against the new one and you will get killed rather easily.

Engineers: Remove Confusion. They do not need it. Tweak Grenades and bombs so its not AoE condition spamming.

Necromancer: Remove Conditions on auto attacks. Tweak other skills with a lot of condition access (Smite for example)

Warrior: Remove that stupid Confusion trait. They should NOT have it. If that is not acceptable. Give it a 20-30second cool down. nerf the trait that increases bleeding by 50%

Thief: Dunno about this one thanks to Initiative it would be kinda hard to adjust, maybe just decrease the duration and/or stacks of some of the conditions they have? Venom builds need to be tweaked as well.

Ranger: Another hard class to fix when it comes to condition spamming. Sure something could be done though.