Guild Wars 2

Przemek Pro.1309:

Yeah but when u leave earth attument u still have attu,emt bonuses for 5 sec

No. Unless they change Lingering Elements which has yet to be confirmed it will not linger. Lingering Elements affects CERTAIN traits only.

shimmerless.4560:

You are absolutely crazy if you think blind on burning isn’t an amazing trait.

1 blind every 5 seconds as a GRANDMASTER trait and you think that is amazing? Remember this trait can be avoided by classes with condition immunity just for some examples. It is far from amazing. I would have preferred something like 50% Increase to Burning Damage or something.

Toolbox.9375:

I’m just wondering what the inevitable ICD will be. ArenaNet loves those stupid things.

I’m guessing ten seconds. Any other guesses?

No ICD. It just requires you to be in an Attunement that is no threat. Once you leave that attunement you will be burst target for atleast 10seconds.

Ele got some rather meh traits as well. Blind every 5 seconds as a master trait is rather poor. immune to crit inside a rather poor attunement, bonus healing to everyone bar the ele and a average arcana one that wouldnt be used in place of Evasive Arcana.

50% damage reduction in stealth – on a class that spends most of a fight in stealth was a terrible idea. Warrior got some very stupid traits as well.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

I blame Ash for saying people and burst.

Why blame me?

I have been hit for instant downed in Factuals. Burst isn’t always the best way to go. I am more of a Tankish-Burning sort of build. I only run with Staff in certain ones, The Atherblades one can be a nightmare. The one with the 2 dudes as the final boss is a nightmare as pure melee as well. These 2 i would go with staff 100%.

Bargaw.4832:

Zenith.7301:

Bargaw.4832:

Eles have access to protection.

Only with a 10 point trait in arcana or a 75 sec cd.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection

Ele has plenty ways to gain protection.

So “plenty” to you is…

1 skill that has no requirement.
1 skill that requires to be in Earth
1 skill that requires a Conjure (and the worst one) as well as enemies

1 trait at 50% Health
1 Trait going to Earth
1 Trait that requires Auras
1 Trait that requires a specific attunement

I wouldn’t really say any of these other than Attuning to Earth and Armor of Earth ar really taken.

FLiP.7680:

Elementalist – GC mage, ranged combat, great AoE damage

Curious, what about the melee ele? I mean you only take into account Staff and Scepter. What about those of us that run D/D which have NO counter to range attacks.

OneManArmy.9732:

Carighan.6758:

Elementalists are highly mobile and have teleports and above-average access to area healing.

are you sure about healing? shout warrior heals as good as ele, except they dont have water field, but they dont need them.
high mobility? blink 40 sec, rtl 40 sec. warrior rush 20 sec, whirlwind 10s, bull charge 40.
so dont tell me about mobility, heavy armored warrior with 30kg GS has more mobility than light armor mage with toothpicks.
18k ele counts as heavy bunker, while 18k warrior is just a base health.

lol.

This.

At the start it was acceptable that ele had the lowest health and armor due to how strong they were. Then the nerfs started and beat the class into near nothingness and the health and armor was not adjusted to account for this lower healing, lower mobility and lower damage ele.

Tip – Going full zerker on the class with the lowest health and armor is not the best of ideas. You might be able to kill people fast, you will also die in seconds if your burst misses.

Just the crit portion, it would be insanely broken if you took no direct damage in Earth when ever you were crit hit. I am guessing the Crit Damage portion is not added.

So say:

1,000 = Normal damage
2,000 = Crit damage

You would take 1,000damage rather than 2,000.

Now it would be great if it made them do 0 damage, though that is unlikely. Going to be interesting to see how they go about getting these too work.

oZii.2864:

Power builds rely on crit effects your ele relys on crits for vigor probably. Mesmers rely on crits for vigor, guardians rely on crits for vigor try playing anyone of them without vigor it is a really big difference.

Condi necros and engi rely on crit for burns. Do you have a Necro or Engi? I have both and the difference between not running your burn on crit trait and your burn on crit trait is huge!! More so for the engi then the necro but you notice the dps difference immediately.

I like you Ash but it just sounds like you don’t realize the extra depth to the combat that is there. Nobody sits in earth but everyone uses earth and ring of earth does alot of damage magnetic grasp is very strong immoblize on a short cooldown. I just can’t wrap my head around why you think stone heart is bad because earth doesn’t have fire attunement damage.

Power builds rely on the damage, not on the crit effects. Sure they are nice, but they are not relying on them. Condi Necro and condi Engi don’t even need the burning. They will still do fine without the burning. So i dont see that as being a huge issue.

Mesmers don’t need the Vigor, they have plenty of stealth and ways to stay out of the way of damage. Sure it will will be a little benefit but it wont be anything that decides the outcome.

No one sits in Earth because it is a terrible attunement. It might be okay to avoid a burst. But that is just delaying the next burst. Once you go Earth then you are no threat. They will just keep attacking and wait for you to leave before going full burst.

Now, if the trait no matter how very unlikely was affected by Lingering Elements, that could really make it something very interesting.

What classes rely on on crit effects to win a fight? That’s right – None.
Some people saying how this will be a huge advantage, it won’t be we will still be pumped full of conditions by pretty much every condition build so it will have no affect there.

We will be stuck in an attunement that is of little threat. The moment we leave it everyone will know to burst as hard as they can as they have have at least 10seconds of us being without it. A thief could melt us in them 10 seconds and still have a break in there.

What if the terrible Arcane Power was turned into:

Arcane Power: You have a 50% Chance to Crit, 1Second ICD. Lasts 30seconds. 45second Cool down

The Bleeding was no problem at all, the high direct damage. Constant Cripple and insane amount of Immobilize was the problem. All i know is he had Dual Pistols (possibly on both sets) and i constantly had Bleeding and Cripple on me, removed it and would instantly get it again. The high stacks of Vul i had didnt help either.

Yeah, the Bleeds were instantly removed. Then reapplied. I pretty much had Vul, Bleeding and Cripple on me constantly, no matter how many times i went Water to remove them all it didnt help with in seconds i will have them again. You can only do so much removal before you see it is pointless. Every time i removed within seconds i would have them all back on again. No idea what his build was other than low damaging, high duration conditions. High direct damage and crits

McFribble.2349:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

McFribble.2349:

You can’t be serious…

Fire – Wow a Blind every 5 seconds as a Grandmaster trait…

Air – I dunno. It just seems rather poor. Not quite sure about it until the damage is stated and such for this one

Water – Increased healing to everyone but the ele, who already have terrible sustain…

Earth – So immune to Crit inside a rather poor attunement. You wont be a threat what so ever inside it. It just means it will take longer to kill you. Doesnt work with Lingering elements either (currently)

Arcana – Meh. Wont ever be taken over Evasive Arcana.

Fire: Completely avoid an attack every 5 seconds. You take an offensive ability and also make it defensive. This is EXACTLY what Eles have been crying to have for what seems like forever. (If this was given to Warriors every time they bled someone, you would be SCREAMING OP at the top of your lungs).

Air: Fully agree. Until we see actual numbers, it is up in the air….heh.

Earth: This works amazingly with Power/Vit/Condition builds. Pop all your conditions on your opponent, and bunker him to death. It still works decently for any other build fighting against Zerker. I just don’t see how you CAN’T think this is good, and single handedly make Earth attunement worth focusing on.

Water: This grandmaster trait is not for solo play. It is for those looking to be a group healer. Not all traits need to focus on turning the Ele into a Pow/Pres/Crit damage class. Just admit it is a great trait that you will probably not use because you don’t want to be a group healer.

Arcane: For those looking to run a condition/bunker build (as stated above) it sure as hell will be picked. Seeing as how you can have two attunemnts active at a time, you can benefit from two of the effects in one proc if your timing is right. Getting Protection AND Retaliation at once is pretty great. Keep in mind too, that their duration is further increased from what is read, since going 30 points into Arcane grants 30% Boon Duration increase.

We won’t know until we can try these traits out ourselves, but I think you are having a bad case of, “Everyone but MY class is good” mentality with this update.

Though you are assuming that they have no -condition duration, it does last for 5 seconds only. It is rather poor for a grandmaster trait. I will repeat – for a grandmaster trait, it isnt that great. That ignores the rather weak tree it is in as well.

Yeah of course the Water trait is for group play. Trying to promote something they said the game wouldnt have – Healer. Its just trying to make the ele a healer class. I just think for a grandmaster trait – it should attect the ele as well.

I run a condition build. This will not be taken over Evasive Arcana. You are wrong. Unless they actually change Lingering Elements this nor Earth Grandmasters wont work with it. So with that in mind – do you think it will still be taken over Evasive Arcana?

McFribble.2349:

You can’t be serious…

Fire – Wow a Blind every 5 seconds as a Grandmaster trait…

Air – I dunno. It just seems rather poor. Not quite sure about it until the damage is stated and such for this one

Water – Increased healing to everyone but the ele, who already have terrible sustain…

Earth – So immune to Crit inside a rather poor attunement. You wont be a threat what so ever inside it. It just means it will take longer to kill you. Doesnt work with Lingering elements either (currently)

Arcana – Meh. Wont ever be taken over Evasive Arcana.

Columbo.5924:

You might want to re-read what lingering elements actually does (despite displaying a completely incorrect description): http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Elements

The most important part is at the bottom:

This trait only functions with Soothing Mist, Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed and Stone Flesh

So it works only with the five point minors, not with any other minor and very much less any selectable trait. So it won’t extend the duration of stone heart either. So were talking about 1-3 seconds uptime of stone heart in a normal rotation.

They could always change the trait. I mean, it would be rather wasted if they made it so that it would have such a SHORT duration when in combat. Decent potential with Lingering Elements if it works, if not – Rather weaker.

After playing with Scepter:

Fire:

Flamestrike – Cast time is rather long Decrease the Burning to 1 second. Reduce the cast time to 1/2second. Could do with a little damage buff as well.

Dragons Tooth – This is just SO much worse than Drake’s Breath. Lower Burning potential by quite a bit. On my current build Drakes Breath is 9k potential Burning for all those in range. That Burning alone is 4 times stronger with a 1 second lower cool down. Just for the added Blast. The delay in it is rather annoying as well.

What i would change : Make it leave a Lava Font sort of thing and lasts 3-4seconds that applies 3second Burning to foes in the Lava Font. Speed it up a bit from the cast to the drop by like 50%

Phoenix – Rather long cool down. No Burning. Decent damage

What i would change: Targets in the way of the Phoenix get a 3second Burn so potential of 6seconds if they get hit on both times.Targets at the explosion area are inflicted with 6seconds of Burning. Decrease the cool down to 10seconds. Decrease the Vigor down to compensate(?)

Water:

Ice Shards – Decent cast time. Low damage. Maybe increase it a little bit.

Shatterstone – Cast time is rather long. I would increase the damage a little bit and reduce the cast time to 1/2second.

Water Trident – Damage a bit low, could do with a little reduction in cool down. The rest is pretty solid.

Air:

Arc Lightning – Okay. Not much possible without making a bit too strong for burst builds.

Lightning Strike – Can be very strong. Okay the way it is.

Blinding Flash – Okay. I would maybe make it AoE in like a 180-240radius

Earth:

Stone Shards – Okay. I would maybe make the direct damage a little and make it Peirce the targets would be really good.

Rock Barrier – I don’t know, just don’t really like it. Toughness is okay. The damage is rather weak and makes it not really worth using it. Not quite sure what to do with it. Maybe make it so that it Cripples with each each hit.

Dust Devil -AoE Blind in a line isnt so bad. Maybe Reduce the Blind duration to 5 seconds. Decrease the cool down to 10seconds. Increase the damage a little.

Xaylin.1860:

I’m not so sure about that. They said it got a unique animation. This implies that the fiery Life Blast might actually be a totally different skill, not just a proc. In this case he is right about the piercing and burning multiple targets.

Or it might work like Engineer and Pistol Explosive Shot explodes when it hits targets, but they have a trait that makes it pierce but it doesnt (iirc) explode for targets other than the first.

It could be that it just has a fiery aura so that players know about it and have the ability to dodge it. I am guessing it will burn the first target and not the rest. It would be rather powerful if it burned all targets with the trait.

Fenrina.2954:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How much Toughness would someone need to make Crit hits hit like normal damage?

The actual answer is that it will vary depending upon the enemy’s build and attack skill. Using ozii’s backstab numbers, around 7.2k toughness. Good luck with that…

Lol.

Mmmmmmm, So what would say a 6k hit become if you had 3,000Toughness which would be about 4,000Armor.

Now, they just need to make Earth skills actually be useful. Or is this just another attempt to try and force us into attunement dancing. Because the moment you go into Earth – You are no threat.

Now of course this isn’t to say that i want Earth to be the best all aorund amazing damage, amazing support, amazing mobility everything sort of attunement but it is currently lacking in my opinion.

Dagger – The Auto attack is shockingly poor and next to useless in most cases. Ring of Earth is okay. Can be decent but nothing more than that. Magnetic Grasp again, okay when it works. Very slow projectile and easily dodged or moved out of range from.

Scepter – Better auto attack than Dagger, requires a target which makes useless against stealth. Though if used as they go into stealth the attack will continue to hit. After that you have a blind and thats it that could affect them. This is an issue with the Scepter in every attunement. You would be stuck in Fire dropping Dragons Tooth and using Phoenix hoping to get a lucky hit

I just think, the trait while decent won’t really be that effective considering that everyone will know about it and will just keep attacking the ele until they are forced out of Earth to heal. Once that happens thats when all the burst will happen.

Question:

How much Toughness would someone need to make Crit hits hit like normal damage?

Not sure if its possible to get that much though. Thinking maybe a direct Toughness increase trait say 50% increase would be a better option seeing as that would be effective in all attunements

Kyon.9735:

From little to none fighting chance at all to being immune to their burst. That’s a really big change. During the time you’re sitting in Earth you should think of how to counter them the moment you go out of Earth. I know you’re a D/D player, remember you have Lingering Elements. Make the most out of the 5 seconds after you leave Earth.

Immune while in a attunement that is no threat. That is the problem. Sure immune to crits in that attunement but then you are no threat. Have we actually had that Lingering Elements will work with this trait yet? i would actually hold off assuming that it will work until it has been confirmed.

I would rather then change it to give either:

1) Increase Toughness by 50%

or

2) Increase Toughness by 50% of Condition Damage

I reallyt dont think conjures (other than FGS) are really that viable. Either until they reduce the cool down or make them so we dont have charges. Of course this would require adjustments to them (minus FGS – leave as is)

You would also be losing out on a rather lot of stuff by ignoring both Water and Arcane lines.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoYhMMKgWExnBrEBA9AMhCDMe0xGAIPYBA-zUBBofBMHtIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqWMAMB-w

Maybe something like that could work. Changed a few things. Not too sure about the Conjures still. Wouldn’t Scepter/Dagger also be a better option considering the power?

Kyon.9735:

This. TBH I’m kind of confused why people insist that they need to sit in Earth attunement. This trait is an Active Defense which allows them to nullify an entire burst. If they choose to stay in Earth to permanently get the trait’s effect which cripples their DPS greatly, then they’re doing it wrong.

Except, Thief can redo that burst within 4seconds. So While you may avoid the first burst, the moment you leave it you will be burst down anyway.

So they do there burst, it is reduced by the trait and being in earth. Then what? You’re in an attunement that offers very little. The thief will just wait until you leave it and burst you down. That isnt exactly great play, that is just waiting for you to leave an attunement.

In the mean time they will keep attacking you and have little to fear because Earth skills are rather weak and of little threat to pretty much anyone. So the thief is just bididng his time knowing thaqt you will have no choice but to leave the attunement sooner or later and as soon as that happens, back into easily obtained stealth ready to backstab you know that you will have at least 10seconds before you can go back into it.

Forzani.2584:

I have played the last month in WvW with a S/D dire condition/perplexity build. 2600 toughness and 20000 HPs. With full 9+ seconds duration on bleeds Scepter 1 does insane damage because you can get 4 stacks (12 bleeds) in that time. Plus the melee has to back out when you show churn all while he bleeds. Plus with sigil changes you can proc say lightning or poison with a hit…don’t need crits.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJArIIQoHAgQBCY8QD+gOseQHA-z0BBoOAk0AZSFRjtsuIas6GYKWER1eFFRrmUALKNC-w

The only problem i can see, no non-targetable auto attacks. They can be very helpful against Stealth users as well as the fact they can hit multiple targets. Shocking Aura would be a big loss as well. As would the loss of Drake’s Breath and Burning Speed as well as Cone of Cold. Doom isnt a crit sigil.

Kyon.9735:

First of all, Earth Attunement is supposed to be a Defensive set. Why do you insist that it needs to do superior damage as well?

Second, if you want to deal damage and still have the effects of Stone Heart, do something in your build which allows you to have 30 points in Earth and 15 points in Arcana for Lingering Attunements. That way you can switch to Fire or Air if you want to deal damage while still having the effects of Stone Heart.

Lastly, I think it’s fair to let the thief to still get a time window where he can burst you.

Did i say anything about superior damage? Earth, especially Dagger/x Earth is rather terrible and is no threat. By no threat i mean no threat not that i think it should have insane burst damage or anything – it just isnt a threat to anyone. So while in that attunement, sure you wont be crit hit but you will also not be a threat. We have no indication that Lingering Elements will actually work with this trait.

Forzani.2584:

I think it would be an interesting test. Glass Cannon melee vs S/D condi ele in Earth.

Mmmmm, i have been looking into Scepter. Not quite sure how a Condition build would work. Burning is better on Dagger which is the best condition we have access to. a double heal with Scepter/Dagger with Water Trident and Cleansing Wave would be decent though.

Kyon.9735:

Wait, how did we end up with Weapon Skill Sets when we’re talking about Traits?

But yes, I agree Dagger mainhand is somewhat lacking for Earth Attunement.

Earth Magic increases Toughness and Condition Damage, and focuses on Earth Attunement skills, additional defensive abilities and signets.

Attune to earth, gaining superior damage-over-time and defensive abilities.

Scepter main hand offers Additional Toughness and AoE Blind. (Defensive)
Focus Offhand offers Condition Cleansing with projectile reflect and Invulnerability. (Defensive)
Staff offers Bleeds, Projectile Reflect, and Crowd Control (Offensive and Defensive)
Dagger Offhand offers AoE crowd control and a channeling skill that applies 4 stacks of bleeding. (Offensive and Defensive)

What does Mainhand dagger offer?
A lackluster melee skill that applies cripple and 1 stack of bleed, and a single target soft crowd control.

Dagger Mainhand on Earth does not provide “superior damage-over-time” nor does it offer good defensive abilities.

Because the trait is only useable in Earth. Unless you plan on doing nothing while in Earth.

Scepter does have decent skills in Earth. Shame the rest of the skills are lacking for my kind of build.

Dagger Earth main hand has a Terrible auto attack, average #2 skill and a decent #3 skill. Its the Auto attack that annoys me the most.

Razor.6392:

Earth, this one I don’t even know. I don’t even know how can people say that it sounds lackluster. It screams grossly overpowered to me and I’m considering abusing it. Can you imagine thieves backstabbing you for 2500 at most? It’s a ridiculous counter for power builds and even hurts condi builds that rely on applying stuff through crits.

The problem is the fact that Earth attunement skills offer no threat what so ever. So while you take less damage, you are also yourself much less of a threat. They can just continue to attack you until you are forced into changing Attunements to heal up at which point you are vulnerable to crits for at least 10seconds. That is enough time for at least 2 Backstabs and plenty of HS spamming.

Yes and while the Ele might have survived that Backstab, the Thief will know that the ele is no threat what so ever while being in Earth so can continue to attack without fear until the ele is forced to change to water for healing and which point the Thief will stealth and go back in with a BS.

Personally i think this is a rather terrible trait. Mainly because Earth offers VERY little in terms of offense. So you are sacrificing not being a threat to survive a BS at which point what do you do? you are stuck in a attunement that is no threat you are stlll taking damage. You go to Water to heal and that means you are a free target for Crits for at least 10seconds. That is enough time for several Backstabs.

I think this will just make Thief even harder to kill, as they will be expecting this will build for more power so even if they arent critting they are still doing solid damage and they will just keep attacking and attacking until you are forced to move out of Earth into Water to dodge roll heal, use other healing skills and such. Then you are an easy target again.

Personally i would rather have had a trait that increases Toughness by 50%. Or maybe have it increase Toughness by 50% of Condition Damage, seeing as its in the condition damage line it fits. This would be useable in ALL attunements as well.

tmac.9172:

Condi Necro will have only bleed for dps…i think it s a real heavy nerf. Anet could have put a cd or few % on crit…not remove it completely!

You’re ignoring Poison. Necro threat is the number of conditions they have. Easily applied perma Poison, Perma Bleeding and that’s just from Scepter Auto attack. Then you have the Blinds, Chill, Weakness, Fear, Cripple and lets not forget the “I Win” button either.

This is not as big a nerf as some people are trying to make out it out to be, the class should never have been given Burning to begin with. Necro will be just fine without the Burning. It just means it will actually require the Necro doing SOME work itself rather than just spamming conditions and watching the target melt.

Have you guys seen Ele full Cele Ascended builds? They are rather broken as it is and you want them to have a BIGGER buff?

Cele was a terrible stat combo to introduce in the first place.

The class should NEVER have gotten the trait to begin with. They have PLENTY of access to conditions as it is, losing Burning will not suddenly make them the worst condition build in the game.

Mmmmm, Maybe they could have done a Burning version of Parasitic Contagion. That it heals for say 25% – 50% of the Burning damage, considering its just ONE condition versus ALL the conditions the necromancer has (i assume)

Yeah we seemed to get rather poor ones with no imagination put into them what so ever.

It depends on the build. I quite like Travelers if you are a damage sort of build. The added 25% movement speed free up utilities and trait slots as well which is always a bonus. Condition wise i would go with Perplexity. Another condition and solid condition damage increase

Not played many other builds so not sure what else could be viable. I would be careful though they are changing rune bonuses so that now you dont get a big benefit from going 2/2/2 or even 2/4.

So i am not really liking any of the new ele traits myself. I was wondering if you could have a say as to how these traits could be changed – whats would yours be?

Fire: Inferno – Your Burning Damage is increased by 50%

Air: No idea :/

Earth: Stone heart – Your Toughness is increased by 50% or Your Toughness is increased by 50% of your Condition damage

Water: Aquatic Benevolence- your healing to yourself and Allies is increased by 25%

Arcane: Elemental Contingency- Gain a boon when you are stuck, based on your current attunement, coodown; 5 seconds. Fire: 4s of retaliation; air: 5 seconds of fury; Earth: 3s of protection; Water: 3 seconds of Regeneration

Water and Arcane just need tweaks. I would make Water so it affects both ourselves and Allies and i would make Arcane have a reduced ICD change Water Vigor to Regeneration. Increase Retal and Protection up to whole seconds.

Change Fire so that it increases Burning Damage by 50%. I would take that over the terrible (in my opinion) blinding trait that it currently is.

Change Earth so that you get a Toughness boost in EVERY attunement rather than not being able to be critically hit in a terrible (offensive wise) attunement because having an increase in Toughness for EVERY attunement 100% of the time is much better than having it in 1 attunement that is no threat to anyone. This would also be affected by Strength of Stone, either way you would be increasing Toughness and Condition damage as well as any food you take as well.

Relshdan.6854:

this.
on swap cooldown levels the playing field.
as an ele…fresh air gives me fast “on swap”…..multiple kits do the same thing on my engi………….cooldown doesn’t change.

the problem is the on kill sigils

If it is true and they are going to make it so you have to keep the kill stacking Sigil on, this is just another nerf to both Ele and Engineer and the ONLY way to counter that would be to make it so that all other classes have to keep the sigil on BOTH weapon sets. Sure they would still have 2 Sigils versus our 1 sigil but i would take that over them having 3 sigils Vs our 1 sigil.

Remember that on swap sigils have 9-10second cool downs. So you can swap to kits as fast as you want, you are only going to get the proc once every 9-10seconds. It’s not just the kill sigils that are the problem, having a much more limited number of sigil slots makes having new builds or something simply isn’t possible or is made a LOT harder.

Currently my condition build relies on being able to swap out my Corruption sigil once i get 25stacks so that i have 2 condition applying Sigils to counter the low access to conditions we have. Make it so that i can only have ONE of them and it makes my build all the more weaker.

@Glenstorm.

I agree, All they have to do is equip the sigil and boom. We have to spend 15 trait points JUST to get the on swap effect and then spend even more trait points to make it so that we can actually use them every 10 seconds like everyone else.

The terrible excuse about having more skills is just silly. at anyone time we have 5 skills, just like everyone else. We are infact PUNISHED by our class mechanic due to the fact the not only are all the skills subpar they all also have insane cool downs.

Cleansing Wave – 1,300 healing and condition removed on a FORTY second cool down
Churning Earth – THIRTY second cool down, 3 second cast time = never used
Earthquake – FORTY FIVE second cool down more than FOUR times longer than Warrior version that can be traited to be even lower…

Our skills simply are on too long a cool down and not strong enough. As i have said if they are making it so that on kill sigils have to stay equipped – they should make it so that other classes need them on both weapon sets to reduce the buff they are getting from these changes when compared to Ele and Engineer

Zanaraxtarus.3954:

Agreed, it is near impossible to fight heavy ranged damage builds as a D/D Ele… Which is why you shouldn’t.
Again – Not every build for every class should be able to beat every other build of every other class… That is just not a realistic expectation…
Specific class builds are SUPPOSED to be counters to other class builds (and p/p thief is a very good counter to d/d ele) That doesn’t show a problem, quite the contrary, the fact that classes can build in ways that counter other builds shows success in development and balance.
Part of being good at pvp is learning which fights you simply can not win.

If that is the case – what does D/D ele counter? From my experience – Nothing.

Kyon.9735:

Precisely. Stop thinking Eles are locked to certain Trait lines.

Having 30 points in 1 attunement doesn’t mean you’ll be locked in it. Even now, I swap to Earth for Protection if I know that my enemy will burst me. It’ll be even better when Stone Heart comes because you will basically be immune to bursts if you use Earth properly.

I’d love to try out Blinding Ashes too. With 30 points in Fire it will be so easy to proc Burns and blinds especially on Main Hand Dagger.

The problem is Earth skills are really lackluster. Outside Ring of Earth, Magnetic Grasp if you can get it off in time and Earthquake (in D/D) it offers nothing. The auto attack is shockingly poor and you stand VERY little chance of getting Churning Earth off.

Now if Earth had a VIABLE skillset that meant you would still be a threat, great. However that is not the case, you lose so much threat just being in Earth and all you show for it is taking a little less damage than you would in another attunement where you would pose a greater threat to them as well…

while i agree that not every build should be able to counter every other build. It makes it near impossible to fight these kind of builds when you have no defense against them. Something like projectile reflection on D/D would make it a little easier for us to stand a chance. The same can be said against the constantly evading Short Bow Thief. All they do is spam attacks and then evade back several times to get back out of range.

Thief being the hardest one, sure Ranger has that knock back but they can’t really keep you at range as easily. Just seems for everything that i could do and that i did P/P had an easy and quick counter.

What they should do. Make it so every class has to have the stacking sigil on BOTH weapon sets for them to keep the buff. This would remove the bonus they get from the fact they aren’t limited to 2 Sigils like Ele and Engi. Sure they would still get 2 sigil slots versus our 1 slot but at least it would make it that little bit more fair for those of us that play ele and Engi.

Dolores.5471:

It’s not just a counter to backstab, it’s a counter to everything that triggers “on crit” and that is a lot. I’m excited to test this new earth trait, seems like the best of the bunch, blinding from fire might help scepter builds, but I don’t think its worth going 30 on fire, I don’t think anyone would drop fresh air for the new air trait, same to the arcana one.. water is just.. meh.

At the cost of being no threat at all…
The Earth skills in pretty much every weapon set are rather poor. No threat. It would just mean dying slower than normal. Of course this is going to be a expect burst is coming – go earth. Do poor damage but dont get 1hit.

Ulion.5476:

With D/F I find P/D thieves easy to deal with. With D/D you have burning speed, magnetic grasp and Rtl to close the gap. Frost burst, earthquake, and updraft to disable them a bit to keep them in range. I am starting to think it maybe your spec, if you were outplayed this badly.

As i said. The moment i sued Ride The Lightening he dodged it meaning that it was on cool down for the rest of the fight. The moment after he evaded back gaining more ground.

I used Magnetic Grasp and Burning Speed. Neither were enough to keep him in range long enough to do anything meaningful. Got him down to about 60% health at which point he stealthed up. went back to range and repeated spamming the same attacks.

Not much that could be done against someone who has better ways to stay at range. Maybe i would have stood a better chance with a different weapon set but thats not really the point, the point being the ONLY weapon combo that is 100% melee has no way to counter builds that can still easily stay at range.

sorrychief.2563:

If you can’t get close to a P/P thief who has limited stealth through utilties. . . troll thread? I don’t believe armageddonAsh because his story doesn’t make sense.

edit: everyone below this line is posting in a troll™ thread.

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This isnt a troll thread. I think they had the Stealth heal as well as that roll back utility and something else. How it started. He started out spamming Unload. I used Ride The Lightening, he dodged with ease. Then moved away. Continued spamming Unload, Then went into stealth and used the Stealth version which gave me 6stacks of bleeding.

This is pretty much it. Every time i got close they stealthed, or evaded back away meaning that i am not in range to deal any damage at all. I tried everything. Knocked him down and he vanished. Immobilized them and it wasnt enough. Got close managed to get a few attacks before they managed to disappear

LightningBlaze.4913:

True, I won’t deny that the water and arcana tree have strong traits for sustain and support but you can gain more than enough of sustain and support from utilities, sigils, runes, weapon skills, balanced stats, burst, and dodges. That is why the choice is not limited to only invest a lot of points into these 2 traitlines. I remember you were trying condition build and you were liking it, how was your experience on trying something new?

The problem is. Low health, Low Armor. Some of the traits are pretty important to counter Thief burst and such. Like Water – used pretty much for the health gain after you take that insane burst

I still run my condition build, gave a try putting some into Fire and Air. First i tried Fire but the added duration and Burning wasnt worth the condition damage and Toughness loss. As well as the loss of Healing Ripple. Tried Air as well, the damage was decent but again the loss of Condition damage, Toughness, Healing Power, Vitality as well as traits just wasnt worth the loss.

I guess the biggest problem is the requirement for Perplexity, Torment and Doom Sigils for the added conditions and damage. So i can’t really can’t experiment on that side either.

They have that new change to a Rune that is going to have a similar affect to the new water grandmaster trait as well…

It seems everything we have is getting given to everyone else.

LightningBlaze.4913:

+1 to this reply. I believe so many playere have become so dependent on specific traitlines and traits that they are unable to expand on the many other viable options the Ele already possesses(a lot more choices with these changes).

…Maybe because them trait lines have very good traits. Water and Arcana have great traits that can be very important for many builds. Its the traits that are important, until we get traits in other lines that are just as strong, Water and Arcana will continue to be taken by many.

Axelifus.3269:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave yw ash

Mmmmmm, didn’t see that it also reflected projectiles. Not too bad for a 25second cool down. Shame its on Focus.

sorrychief.2563:

Sounds like to me you need more practice with your mainhand dagger skills. Between Ring of Earth, EA earth dodge, hydromancy sigil and frost burst you should have no problem sticking to targets.

Did you not read. The moment i got close they stealthed and moved away. I could not get close enough to use anything. I used everything i could to get close to him. Every time i got close he just stealthed up and moved to range again.

Hydromancy would have no affect if you cant actually get close and stay close enough to swap attunement and same goes for Frozen Burst and Ring of Earth…