Guild Wars 2

Azukas.1426:

Not sure if OP is serious

He can’t be, that or he is the WORST warrior in the history of GW2. I have seen one that has been able to keep insane numbers of immobilize, fear and insane damage meanwhile having blocks and immunities….

Warrior are FAR from terrible in Duels. They will win more than they lose. Unless the Warrior is awful.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Have you played Ele?
Scepter is a Power/burst weapon. The Earth Auto is useless in such builds. You wont be using. You may go in for the Toughness and the Line AoE Blind but then you will jump out. You dont waste time using the Auto attack because Air is MUCH better.

26 days old post

Kyskythyn.6471:

Hello all, I am a long time solo and small group roamer. Currently I am running a s/f condi ele. This build has been pretty successful for roaming, but I’d like to see if the ele community has any suggestions for changes and improvements.

Kyskythyn.6471:

As you said, I mostly use earth auto attack which proc’s the obsidian focus trait.

26 days old….
Do they still use it? It means nothing if they TRIED it. I have and i stopped rather quickly. Then look at the pros and cons….6 Cons Vs 4 pro. Says a lot.

Now rather then showing a post that was last replied to 26 days ago and then totally forgetton, maybe check to see if they are still using it. It means nothing if they if they tried and then gave up. I have tried it and gave up within a few days.

Maybe try and find something a little more recent. Maybe something that confirms they didn’t give it up after a day or 2. Maybe something with a few videos maybe? All in all, this is a rather pointless post. Congrats.

Toolbox.9375:

tweeve.3782:

vapor blade is actually a decent skill for a healing ele, it all depends on what you put between you and what you are attacking.
in PvE,
When I use vapor blade, I try and keep at least 1 or more players between me and my target, if I can throw in an enemy in there too I will. So I can hit 2 or more enemies and/or a player or two which at the same time does damage to the enemies, heals the friendlies.
Now while that wont keep my teammates from dying, what it does do is make it much longer before they have to pop their own heals or having me come in and throw in a large group aoe heal.

Wait, what? Do you mean you set it up this way so that you can use Cone of Cold to heal allies when you have the positioning right, or does Vapor Blade do healing? I can’t find anything anywhere about a healing component to Vapor Blade.

He is likely thinking of Cone of Cold. Vapor Blade does no healing. Minimal damage but inflicts a single stack of Vul per target hit. Very much sounds like he is getting the Auto attack (Vapor Blade) confused with the #2 skill (Cone of Cold)

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

Because they don’t. I can count: 70-30(burn)-20(terror)= 20 free trait points

As i have said Not everyone runs the same builds. I know that i didn’t run with Terror on my old Condition build. So no. Not everyone runs with them specific traits.

I can say the same about earth/scepter on elm.

Have you played Ele?
Scepter is a Power/burst weapon. The Earth Auto is useless in such builds. You wont be using. You may go in for the Toughness and the Line AoE Blind but then you will jump out. You dont waste time using the Auto attack because Air is MUCH better.

The same can be said for the Dagger Earth. While Bleeding is nice, the direct damage being linked to one target with a terrible animation and terrible design. You will spend more time in Fire and Air, going into Water for healing and such. You go into Earth for an attempt at immobilizing a target (though it bugs out a lot) and Ring of Earth and then you go out.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

Because they don’t. I can count: 70-30(burn)-20(terror)= 20 free trait points

As i have said Not everyone runs the same builds. I know that i didn’t run with Terror on my old Condition build. So no. Not everyone runs with them specific traits.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

and why are you assuming elm dont use specter or earth on dagger? maybe im the same expert as you when it comes to necromancer

No one goes into Earth Dagger to use Auto attack anyway. The same can be said for the Scepter with with its better auto attack, it isn’t used for its conditions but for the toughness and blind as people use Scepter as a Burst weapon with Air.

Because they don’t. Earth Auto attack is useless if you are any build other than Condition and as i have already stated Scepter is a TERRIBLE choice if you are going condition ele.

Even on Dagger the Auto attack is SHOCKING. It is just wasted time. You are wasting time trying to attack with Earth Dagger. You are not going to be using Earth Scepter because Scepter is a Burst/damage weapon and thus you will spend 99% of your time in Air.

Pretty much all the ele changes are rather poor. The Heal just doesnt work. Why make it copy another heal for its active part in that its different per an attunement. Earth is also terrible change.

How about No. Some power builds/skills need to be nerfed Backstab i am looking at you! However, Conditions do NOT need to be buffed. They are brokenly strong as it is.

Tom.8029:

I don’t think Auto-attacks should apply conditions. it just ends up becoming a spam-fest for condition users. Make them actually have to work for their results.

I personally think its okay for Ele before anyone screams about Bias i will say why – As long as its not burning on Dagger it is fine, i think Earth having Bleeding is okay because Earth isn’t a damaging attunement it is meant to be about conditions and defense. Now while the Dagger Earth auto attack could be the worst in the whole game that doesn’t mean it could not be fixed.

No one goes into Earth Dagger to use Auto attack anyway. The same can be said for the Scepter with with its better auto attack, it isn’t used for its conditions but for the toughness and blind as people use Scepter as a Burst weapon with Air.

With the lack of damaging conditions we only have Burning and Bleeding from the class having an Auto attack that applies one of them is okay because without trait and utility investment we would only apply ONE on any attunement auto attack. Unlike others which have plenty of access to conditions as well as plenty on auto attack and don’t lose 50% of their damaging conditions when they swap weapons. They will lose some of course but not to the extent that ele do.

I do think some classes need to have theirs adjusted especially on range weapons. You should not be able to stay at range or open a fight from range with auto attack spamming with numerous conditions

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding?(from what i know elm have it too) The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well (same as easy access to healing skills/regeneration) a. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) (elm scepter offer 2sec burn every 1.25 sec) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds (dodge it ) Though the regen helps (to gain the regeneration on necromancer you have to decrease the distance between you and foe and its not easy when you have only 2 dodge and no access to stability) them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds (1,25 sec cast time). This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

Yes we have Bleeding as well. However you can’t Bleed and Burn someone at the same time unless you use a specific trait setup or waste a Utility on a TERRIBLE skill that will proc Burning (have activate in Fire then move) 3-4 times in 30 seconds on a 45 second cool down.

I would say that Constant healing is pretty much the top defense option for Ele, so they need it even with the insane cool downs and average numbers. does that mean that classes that have access to nearly every other condition should be able to perma Poison people? Of course not.

Yeah Scepter Auto attack offers Burning. However Scepter is a TERRIBLE weapon for a condition build. I have tested and tried all the weapons and it just can’t compete with Dagger main hand. I haven’t seen a SINGLE condition build using the Scepter – Why? Because it just isn’t worth it.

You get better access to Burning on Dagger and you get access to NEW conditions that the Scepter doesn’t have – Cripple, Chill, Weakness and immobilize. Sure the Auto Dagger is terrible but everything else makes up for it. That is what the Scepter doesnt have. While Earth auto on Scepter is great what you lose isn’t worth it because of the rest of the scepter skills.

Scepter:

Auto attack = Single Target Burn. Terrible damage
Dragons Tooth = Easily Dodged high damage, decent burn attack

That is it. That is all the Burning Scepter has. The ONLY good thing about the Scepter is the Earth Auto attack. Water Trident is pretty decent as well if you want a bit of healing. But concentrating only on the conditions you get:

Burning – 1 Single target, 1 AoE and easily avoided
Vul – 1 easily avoided AoE
Blind – 1 good. 1 decent but AoE
Bleeding – 1 good on auto attack.

So it offers NO cripple at all. NO Chill at all….

Why are you assuming they have no stability? Not every condition build is exactly the same you know. So they need to get close to the target, have you thought that maybe that is what they want? Spinal Shivers into DeathShroud and Dark Path is a pretty solid combo and it works MUCH better when at closer range.

oZii.2864:

What your bit getting ash is that necro and engi are condi based classes. If a necro made a thread complain about not having the healing ability of a ele it would be the same thing.

Necro has heals for pretty much any situation. Plus they have Deathshroud so i wouldn’t really see that being the case. Necromancer i agree is the condition class. Does that mean they should be left unchanged? No.

As for Engineer – Condition class? Really!? So the turrets and everything are what exactly? I would never call them a condition class. They have a VERY strong (in my opinion one of the best) condition builds but that doesnt mean they are a condition class.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Look what Condi Necro

and this is the only thing that they can do right now.
chill/cripple(mobility), weakness(vigor), poison(healing abilities), chill/weakness(immunity)

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding? The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds Though the regen helps them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds. This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

Then add in another weapon set. 6 condition application on a 60second cool down among other skills and you can see why Condition Necro is very strong. Fast easy to apply and spammable conditions. Poison should NOT be on an auto attack chain that takes 1.5seconds to complete and lasts for 4 seconds with no duration food or anything. Then you have The Bleeding, Chill, Torment, Immbolize and Fear from the DeathShroud skills as well.

coglin.1867:

I mean you contradict yourself in all of your elementailist post, demanding that they have more conditions

That is quite simple – If you can’t beat them. Join them. Though i have to say i enjoy playing my condition build MUCH more than i did when i played the condition build on other classes – Played Condi Engineer, Condi Necro and Condi Mesmer. The Ele just feels balanced when it comes to conditions.

We have to sacrifice Rune set, Sigils and damage to have a good condition condition build. I find hybrid to be the worst of both worlds.

Of course if i had the choice: Bring others to ele condition standard. In that they have to make sacrifices and can’t spam conditions. Examples being Engineer and Grenades. Plus Ele has no option of switching to range and spam conditions like Warrior, like Mesmer, like Necro.

Its not really the condition damage that is the problem. It is the NUMBER of conditions that can be easily applied without any thought at all. It is just spam, spam, spam. Then we get into Conditional removal which unless specifically built just to counter – not kill just counter condition builds mean you won’t be killing anyone and you will be killed by any hybrid or power build.

Pretty much every condition build has too many conditions, except Ele which have to rely on rune sets and Sigils to grab as many new Conditions as they can. Look what Condi Necro and Engineer can do compared to Condi Ele. Any build that is built for Anti conditions won’t have a problem with Ele because Ele can not spam numerous conditions over and over again. That is how ALL condition builds should be.

Rather than just spamming them from the moment you get into combat it should be about using the RIGHT condition at the RIGHT time. None of this Grenade spamming while at range and then spamming Pistol/Shield and Bombs. Or spamming auto attacks for conditions combined with Signet of Spite.

I am rather disappointed, 2 weeks old. I bumped it and got a ban and yet we still have no comment from Devs.

I wouldn’t mind as much for not having 4 Sigils IF as an Ele the 15 point traits were buffed to be really worth it. I only see Air and Water as being good and even that is dependent on the build you are running.

Fire – Increase Damage. Add Burning
Air – Increase Damage. Maybe add a 5second Blind?
Earth – Add 5 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds
Water – Increase The Healing by 50%

Not quite sure what could be done for Engineers though.

Kyon.9735:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Sunshine.5014:

Yes, it does have an icd of 5 seconds per target. Just do a test on the nondestructable golem in PvP lobby and see.

That is what i have tested it on. Using different weapons and different attunement auto attacks. It can proc more than once in 5 seconds but that seems to then make it so it doesn’t proc for like 10+ seconds.

Are you sure you don’t have 25 points in Arcana?

In some cases it could be affected by that. However i would use it in Fire (thus gaining Burning) and then switch to Air and it would still proc several times in seconds. It was rare – maybe a bug or something but it happened and would then mean that it would go 10+ seconds without a proc.

Used it in Earth with Scepter as well. Air D/D seemed to be the best at poccing as it would get 4-5 procs but it seems 4 being the most likely. That would mean if it does indeed have a cool down, it is higher than 5seconds. Or maybe they have limited have many procs it can have?

I was talking specifically about Arcane Power combined with it as he specifically mentioned Arcane Power. Even with the trait i find Arcane Power just like with all the Arcane skills just have too much of a cool down. All of the Arcane skills are rather lackluster when you consider the cool downs.

I think it would have been better if the different arcane skills inflicted some different conditions. To give the player more options. For example – Immobilize on Arcane Shield is rather pointless.

That is true that you can apply them on how you want. It just means Earth is going to be wasted pretty much all the time because no one is really going to want to take it in its current state.

Given the right Rune like Torment if the 6/6 got buffed (which it needs!) it could be a real solid combo with Arcane Brilliance and Elemental Surge. Inflicting Torment and Burning or Chill could be a real nice combo. Air still would be rather meh and would be one of those skills where having different conditions based on the Arcane skill could be quite good. Though it would be quite hard for all the attunements bar Earth maybe Water as they could go for Bleeding, Torment and such. Where as Fire has pretty much only Burning. Air could go with Weakness as well which would be nice.

Something like (Air as an example):

Arcane Brilliance: Weakness
Arcane Wave: Blind
Arcane Shield: Blind
Arcane Blast: Weakness

It would just give the player a little more in terms of options. As i said Earth one is just SO poor that it is hardly ever going to be used. However, what is some of them applied nice stacks of Bleeding or Torment then it could be really strong.

It is not the condition that is the problem – It is the duration. Take Warriors for example. They would LAUGH at getting a 1 second Immobilize. Even with 40% food you would need to be using Arcane Power to get them to be stuck for what about 6 seconds at best thats with the ele having +40% food and the Warrior having no traits, no food, no rune or anything that reduces that or even removes it.

Of course the Torment would need to be of reasonable duration and stacks but i think it would be a better option than a condition that has a terrible duration that would only be useful if using a specific weapon set or using Arcane Blast. D/D for example would have next to no use for it. While a Scepter or Staff could find decent uses for it. Rather than have a condition that requires a specific weapon set for it to be useful wouldn’t it be better to have a condition that is effective no matter the weapon.

Personally i don’t think its the duration of our conditions that are the problem its the lack of variety. I use Rune and both sigils to get access to more conditions. With +40% food i find the duration okay. What we kind of lack is more of the damaging conditions. We have Bleeding and Burning but the likes of Confusion, Poison and Torment especially when kiting could be really helpful to the class.

While it has some uses, it just isn’t worth taking over a EA. That is just my opinion having used both in both Condition builds and in more Zerk based builds. Maybe if the Changes to other runesets that include conditions on Heal (like Torment) and they get a reasonable buff. 2 stacks on a 30 second cool down is poor. Then i could see it having it’s uses, but right now i much prefer EA.

Vash Past.4385:

Lol. Ok, seriously guys.

Take Elemental Surge for once instead of Evasive Arcana, then equip at least Arcane Wave and Arcane Power. Preferably with Frost Bow or Arcane Blast as third choice. Equip armor to lengthen condition durations and sigils for more condition on proc. Realize you have practically everything you asked for in above posts.

I know you think Evasive Arcana can’t be lived without, but I assure you there are Many Possibilities with Elemental Surge, Arcane Power, and Arcane Wave

Elemental Surge is rather poor. I have used it and went back to EA because EA is much better. Wow, 5 condition procs every 45 seconds…yeah that is REALLY worth a 30point Grandmaster trait…

Sorry but Elemental Surge is A LONG way of being good enough for it to oust EA.

Burning – I have Perma Burning as it is. No need for it.
Chilled – Good
Air – Blind decent
Earth – Immobilize. Terrible.

I have no need for Burning when i have so much access as it is. The Chilled is good and the Blind is decent but even together they aren’t worth taking Elemental Surge. The Earth one though is SHOCKING.

Chilled and Blind can be great in different Arcane Skills. Like Arcane Shield and Blind is a great combo. AB and Chill is very nice AoE Chill. Even the Burning with AB is decent but Immobilize is SO poor. I would rather it be turned into a new condition we don’t have access to (with out sigils/runes) that condition would be Torment. A good stack and duration Torment added in place of Immobilize would be much more useful than a 1second immobilize. In groups they will have most likely anti condition food so the 1second goes down to like 1/2 second which is nothing.

Sunshine.5014:

Yes, it does have an icd of 5 seconds per target. Just do a test on the nondestructable golem in PvP lobby and see.

That is what i have tested it on. Using different weapons and different attunement auto attacks. It can proc more than once in 5 seconds but that seems to then make it so it doesn’t proc for like 10+ seconds.

An interesting idea.

I always thought a cool idea would be for each attunement to have its own sort of “Overdrive” sort of thing. So you press once to go into the Attunement and then you press it again and it would buff up and even change some of your skills while putting all other attunements on its max cool down. Each attunement would also have its own AoE sort of effect as well.

Fire – Burning – 3 seconds
Water – Chill – 2 seconds
Air – Weakness – 4 seconds
Earth – Torment(2 stacks) – 3 seconds

It would proc every 3 seconds in say a 240 range affecting all in its range. The skills of that attunement would be buffed up by 25% and some could even change altogether at the cost of putting all over attunements on its full cool down (30 into Arcana would be 10 seconds)

Example

Fire D/D

Auto Attack – Dragons Blast: Fling Fire in a claw shaped spread at your foe. Each hit inflicts 1 second of Burning

Drake’s Breath – Spray a cone of fire at foes while on the move. 8 Hits Each hit inflicts 3 seconds of Burning.

Burning Rage – Inflict Burning on yourself to turn yourself into a Burning Bomb. Charge at your foe and deal massive damage and inflict 6 seconds of burning on all targets hit. Gain 3stacks of Might for Each Target hit by your explosion.

Ring of Fire – Damage and Burn nearby foes with a ring of fire. Foes that cross the burning are inflicted with Burning. Duration = 10 seconds.

Phoenix Burst – Fire a burning Phoenix from yourself into the target area. Any foes that already have Burning condition take Critical damage and inflicted with 6 seconds of Burning. Those not affected take 3 seconds of Burning and normal damage Area Burnings for 5 seconds. Each seconds someone is in the fire they are inflicted with 5 seconds of Burning.

Of course, the wording could be improved but you get the idea.

Sunshine – Elemental Power doesn’t have a 5second ICD. I have tested it many times and gotten procs within seconds of other procs. It does have something wrong though. It seems to only proc 4-5 times. I have tested with various weapons in various attunements and got 5 procs once. The second time i tried with the same attunement and same weapon i only got 4. I have had it proc twice in like 2-3 seconds and then go 10+ seconds without a proc.

My ideas:

Arcane Precision: Chance on Hit to apply a condition
Fire – Burning 3seconds
Water – Vul(5 stacks) 10 seconds
Air – Weakness 6seconds
Earth – Torment (3 stacks) 5 seconds.
Chance on hit: 50%
ICD: 10 seconds

This change would mean its based on HIT rather on than on Crit. This would be a MUCH better trait with this change. With the added cool down I have increased the duration of Fire and Air while added another 4 stacks for Water and replaced Earth Bleeding for Torment. This is because i feel that we have plenty of access to Bleeding so it really isn’t needed but this change could really help Condition builds out with a new condition.

Glyph Of Elemental Power: Chance for spells to inflict a condition based on your attunement

Fire – Burning – 3 seconds
Water – Chill 2 seconds
Air – Weakness 6 seconds
Earth – Torment (3 stacks) 5 seconds
Chance on hit: 50%
Duration: 15 seconds
ICD: 2seconds
Cool down: 30seconds

Reduced the duration from 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Added a ICD of 2 seconds but now you have a 50% chance on a hit to inflict the condition. So you could get off about 7-8 procs. Maybe more depending on luck. With the duration decreased i have also decreased the cool down. Again, i changed Earth to Torment. I think having a high damage condition that does more damage when someone is moving is better than a condition that just slows them down a bit especially as certain classes laugh at getting Cripple on them.

Killface.1896:

This immune to crit is kinda crazy op,everyone that are going as crit dps get 66% of there stats removed when fighting a ele Oo

It is NOT overpowered. Its in a attunement that is NO threat. So you can’t crit them. You can continue to attack them and have no fear of anything because Earth attunement is simply no threat to anyone.

You just keep attacking them, force them out of earth to try and put you on the defensive at which point you can burst them. They could heal in Earth but Earth itself is no threat.

dulfy.1493:

Mesmer

• Chaos: Bountiful Disillusionment – Gain boons each time a shatter skill is used. Mind wrack – 3s of relitation. Cry of frusturation – 3 stacks of might for 15s; Diversion – 5s of fury; Distortion – 8 seconds of regeneration
• llusions: Maim the Disillusioned – Enemies hit by shatter skills are inflicted with torment.

These 2 could be pretty decent. Depending on the duration and stacks of the Torment. Both could be pretty good in Shatter builds.

Curunen.8729:

You’ve got to think what each shatter skill does: #1 direct damage, #2 condition (mediocre), #3 interrupts/daze, #4 panic button/secure stomp/etc…

For #1 to be effective, and especially if it is the focus of the build, you need high precision first (at least 40%), and to capitalise on burst you would be well off with at least 60% crit damage, though I’d push higher for at least 70 or 80%.

That is true. Though CoF can be pretty decent when taking the 5point trait so that it inflicts 6 stacks of Confusion. While not insane on its own, could work well when combined with the damage, Might and Confusion from Mind Wrack.

With all shatters inflicting Confusion. Granting Health and Might it could be pretty decent. Is the Torment trait going to be in Illusions? depending on the stacks i would say at least 2 stacks per a shattered illusion and that could be pretty solid option as well.

I do have Food and Sigils to use as well, so i could go with the Power and Crit Damage food as a starting point. Maybe swap a bit of stuff out, As 23k health isn’t really needed I could go with either some Cavalier or Knight Armor stats, keep the Toughness but swap the Vitality for Critical Damage could be worth it.

Curunen.8729:

Anything you take away from that and it loses it’s edge, especially if traited around – sure this can work with multiple sources of damage, but usually turns out to be less effective. Yes you’ve got the confusion on shatter trait, but it’s not significant.

For #2 you can do with any way of buffing conditions – but overall it is a lackluster shatter and mainly to supplement #1. You can build around retaliation, where the trait that gives retal on #2 comes in handy, but this is no longer as effective. After the patch, condition shatter looks like it might be an interesting spec so potentially you might get more mileage from this again.

Thinking about swapping precise Wrack out for Confusing Cry, for now at least. The Confusion and decent Retal up time would be nice. Would be about 15seconds of Retal if i shatter 3 illusions, combine that with the Might and the Healing.

Curunen.8729:

I would drop vitality down – use what you get from that to boost power and other damage output, as well as toughness if you like. 23k is pretty high, but not really worth going that high in vitality at the moment.

Grab some condition removal utility – such as mantra of resolve, arcane thievery or null field. I would avoid disenchanter if you’re frequently shattering, unless you can time it perfectly to get one or two attacks off before shatter.
Failing that, take mender’s purity.

yeah already thought about that, if changed the armor to Cavalier, I would have 1700 Power, just under 1500 Toughness, just under 21k health and my Critical damage would be increased to 60%. This could be further increased with Food adding another 10%

As for Condition removal i am split between taking Mantra of Resolve or changing Restorative Mantras out for Menders Purity. Would Mender’s Purity proc on the Charge and usage of the heal Mantra?

Because if its on the charge and use of Mantras that would be 6 conditions cured every 10 seconds. Though good, would it be worth the loss of the heal on charge of Mantras?

Curunen.8729:

You need to think how you will execute attacks – taking advantage of openings and how you can maximise damage when the opportunity arises. Just having a mix of condition and direct damage stats (when both are at mediocre levels) is not necessarily going to work out, unless you have a specific game plan.

Yeah just need to find the right balance. I mean with the Killing stacks and the crit damage i would have 3,100 Attack Power and 70% Crit Damage with just over 600Condition damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAR8al0npRtdqxINcrNSc6RyBwzR9Y7g/7kK0aA-zECBoeAYLRmgAIVtIaslhFRjVJLyKkYaXCpiCIiA-w

Another little bit of tweaking. I could go with Condition Crystal that would increase my Condition damage to just over 750 and would still have 3 Sigils to decide what to use.

The Inspiration 20 trait i am not sure about, i could go with the remove Conditions on heal but lose the Heal on Mantra charge or grab the Mantra charge heal and use Mantra of resolve.

Curunen.8729:

Some interesting choices, but overall I have no idea what you’re trying to do. I’ll start off by saying 10 in chaos there is a waste – better off putting 10 in duelling or domination (mental torment).

Taking the 10 in Choas for the little added Boon Duration, Toughness and Debilitating Dissipation. The added conditions can be pretty decent and help a little bit as well. Though Mental Torment seems like a decent alternative though.

Curunen.8729:

A few other things:
- you’ve take precise wrack, but your crit chance and damage is incredibly low.
- phantasmal haste, when two of your GM traits, and vigorous revelation revolve around shatters.

I wouldn’t really call 44% Crit damage incredibly low, the Crit Chance is rather low i can agree with that. I could swap it out for the Shatter Recharge trait though. I could also grab Confusing Cry maybe to replace Precise Wrack?

Curunen.8729:

-pretty much zero condition removal – you need some way to remove dangerous conditions at a key moment in a fight, fast, or you’ll melt.
- Healing power gear – negligable difference to traited heals – eg mantras, and overall the least useful stat for any mesmer build.

Yeah conditions are a serious worry. Not quite sure how i could really get around that. Any tips would be much welcome. Yeah i do agree their, it seems that 101 Healing Power is like 20 added to the healing of Restorative Illusions. Removing the healing Power from Armor and accessories still means i would heal for 1,300 from Restorative Illusions so i could replace that gear with Solider Armor and Bers+Valk accessories that would increase my Precision to 22% and my Critical damage to 60% or maybe replace the rings with Dire+Rapid seeing as i would be shattering a lot and the Confusion from them would be decent damage.

Curunen.8729:

- mediocre condition damage, and powers to apply them.
- very low power and direct damage in general.
- there’s more, but I’ll leave it at that…

Yeah the Condition damage is a bit low but would be primarily used for the Confusion from Shatters. Though i wouldn’t really call nearly 2,000Power (with sigil) Plus i would have 3 other sigils and both types of food to decide on. 3,000Attack Power and 44% crit Damage doesnt seem that bad.

Curunen.8729:

What it seems to me is that you’re going for some sort of support shatter hybrid? Please correct me if I’m wrong. Unfortunately you’ve crippled all your damage output sources, while not gaining much in the form of survivability.

Maybe when the patch hits, a condition shatter/support could be viable and work for you?

crippled my damage output sources? The Phantasms would still be doing solid damage, the Shatters when combined with the healing, the Might and the Confusion would be quite strong as well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAR8al0npRtdqxENcrNSc6Ryd+zR9Y7g/7kK0aA-zECBoeAYLRmgAI7pIaslhFRjVJLyKkYaXCpAA-w

How about this? Moved the 10 points from Chaos into Domination for the increased Mind Wrack damage. swapped the Illusions traits to Confusing Cry (for now) and Illusionary Invigoration.

Removed the Cleric armor and replaced with soldiers and replaced the Apothecary accessories with Dire+Rabid

Compared to the other build it would be a Increase to Power, Attack Power, Precision, Vitality, Health, Condition Damage, Condition Duration, at the cost of a loss in Toughness, Healing Power, Boon Duration. I would still have Both sets of food and 3 sigils to decide on as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAR8al0npRtdqxENcrNSYqQwP9I5O/5oeodv/dA-zUCBoeAYLRmgAI7ZIrZRRsMsIas6ZRWhET7SIFA-w

This is the build i am currently looking at. Though kind of a worry not having PU or DE in the build. Now if that bug is correct i would get like 2,600 every shatter. That would be rather nice.

Not sure about the food or other Sigils.
What would you guys change?

Any views on this build? Terrible? Decent?

runeblade.7514:

• Vapor blade is range.
• Even Warrior Longbow can’t even kill from range. Unless enemies is at low hp. Even then, Ele Vapor blade can do the same.
• Pre-nerfed D/D probably did the same amount of damage or slightly more and still wreck things up as the Kings of PvP.

Lol, Vapor Blade is mid range at best and deals like no damage what so ever. So that doesn’t really count due to the fact that it is NOT a ranged skill, its mid-range and deals like no damage what so ever.

Really you comparing a weapon set that CAN kill people from range to Vapor Blade that couldn’t kill ANYONE due to the fact the damage is awful and its mid-range. Tip – A Longbow warrior WILL kill a Vapor Blade Ele and won’t even take any damage.

Melee = 0 – 240Range
Mid-Range 240 – 600 Range
Range – 600+ Range

D/D ele has NO range skill.

mango.9267:

Pretty much this. You shouldn’t be thinking about what to do after taking a backstab. You should be thinking about how to avoid a backstab in the first place, since that’s where mesmers excel. Abuse your blocks, distortion, daze, evades, blinks, aegis, and stealth. That should be more than enough defensive maneuvers to avoid backstabs.

As i have already stated. That only works if you see them coming. If you have no idea they are there then you stand little chance of avoiding it. I have noticed some that will go right for backstab and save Bask venom for later in the fight.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Firstly, you’re not talking about actual defense, you’re talking about recovery. Defense prevents you from taking the hits, recovery allows you to keep going after taking them. Mesmer has both.

On mesmer, you shouldn’t be taking that 6k backstab. You should dodge it with blurred frenzy, block it with the sword or scepter block, aegis it with chaos storm, let a clone eat it with deceptive evasion, etc.

Sorry, yeah meant more in the recovery. It’s not as easy as “dodge” or “blurred Frenzy” it, you have to KNOW its coming first. IF you know its coming you do have a few options. However if you don’t know that it is coming and you take the damage which can be done when they have such access to stealth. It is after that that i am having issues with.

Pyroathiest.4168:

However, in the event that you do take the backstab, you’ve got a lot of options for recovery. First, mesmers have a ton of access to the regeneration boon, so that’s just sorta a static ticking that will heal you. Additionally, the mesmer main heal ether feast will heal for 7500 health with 3 illusions, scaling 1.3 with healing power. This is a huge chunk of health, even for a class with medium hp. On top of that, if you so choose, you can trait to do aoe heals of 2600 every time you charge a mantra.

Ton of regeneration? I am guessing you are talking about PU and the trait for granting Regen from Phantasms. Yeah so you take 6k Backstab, Heal back up after using the heal – then what? This is my problem. I can survive the first BS but after that is where it becomes a bit tougher to recover.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Looking at ele skills, ether renewal heals for 5000. However, that’s over a long, easily interruptable 4s channel. You can also trait to heal for about 1.2k when you attune to water, can trait to heal for 1.2k when you dodge in water, can use skills that heal you for between 800 and 1.2k (trident, cone of cold, cleansing wave, geyser). However, when you do this you sacrifice all offensive capability, burn multiple long cooldowns, and are potentially forced into several specific traits and traitlines. Mesmer just needs to press their main heal.

My Ether Renewal heals for around 6,500 in total but i only use that when i know i am going to be fighting Condition builds. outside of that i have heals from going into water, heals from rolling in water, 2 heal skills in water as well. of course i run awith around 800Healing Power so its a bit higher. Going into water and Dodging in Water can be upwards of 5k healing. Ignoring the Regen that i get which is about 1.5k as well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAR8al0npRtdqxENcrNSYqQwP9I5O/5oeodv/dA-zUCBoeAYLRmgAI7ZIrZRRsMsIas6ZRWhET7SIFA-w

This is the build i am currently looking at. Though kind of a worry not having PU or DE in the build. Now if that bug is correct i would get like 2,600 every shatter. That would be rather nice.

Not sure about the food or other Sigils.
What would you guys change?

Does Illuionary Persona work with Restorative Illusions? I mean if i had 3 our would i get extra healing seeing as the shatter effect happens on me as well?

Khalic.3561:

Huh. I can’t see anything either, even though if I manually look up the thread it says it has nearly 50 posts and isn’t locked. Never seen anything like that before.

I personally wouldn’t be shocked if the Mods messed it up on purpose. Pretty much nothing bad was being said in it just wondering why that Ele and Engineer only get 2 slots No idea on how to fix it either.

Yeah i looked at Restorative Mantras. Shame that its only on the charge that grants the health. Though guess having it on the Charge and usage could be a little too strong. Restorative Illusions seems solid as well, Just a shame that i can’t go 30 into Inspiration without being hit hard elsewhere and the Healing isn’t that amazing. 1.2k Health isn’t that great for a 30point trait.

Also a shame that IM has a 15seocnd cool down, combined with Phantasmal Healing it would have been VERY good.

As Condi Ele the only real issues i have are with Necro and Engineer, i mean i CAN kill them if everything goes exactly right. Engineer is easier in terms of that they don’t really have that much to offer in condition cleanse and with the nerf to that auto mated response trait it will make it a bit easier.

The problem comes when i have to be in melee to deal any damage or inflict conditions and they can just spam marks and grenades until i get into melee range which means a lot of conditions and having to use removals even before getting anything on them. Engineers will just spam EVERY Grenade kit skill as you are getting into range and then just go with Tool belt or Pistol/Shield until the cooldowns are back off. The insane access to Poison and Confusion hurts a lot.

Mesmer the aim is simple – pressure them as much as you can, AoE Burning works great against them and the illusions. Don’t let up. They go stealth kill the phantasms and clones. until they return. I run with Doom and Reaper of Grenth as well which helps a little bit.

When they go stealth use that little bit of time to remove conditions. Going Water, Dodge roll and then Dagger #5 is pretty solid. Save Ether Renewal until you are about 70% if you can.

Looking more towards Regen and such. It just seems because Mesmer have Stealth and PU that they have been rather shafted when it comes to recovering health.

Seras.5702:

Staff alone is great defense
Staff #2, Blink, and perma-vigor from minor Dueling trait
Decoy is my fav

Not really a fan of the staff. Decoy is nice but i am talking about defense after you have taken a 6k back stab. With my ele i would go Water and be pretty much full health in seconds. Mesmer doesnt seem to have any of that. Even the new Heal they got is kinda weak seeing as its every 3 seconds.

runeblade.7514:

D/D ele sacrifice less than a mobility warrior. If Mobility warrior wants to be more mobile than Ele, then he has to give up something. A mobility warrior is not a 30/30/30/30/30 build. Ele still has everything because his mechanics gives him everything.

Try killing some from range as a D/D ele. You saying that ele give up nothing is just silly. With D/D we are 100% melee. We go out of that and we do NO damage, we cant swap to another weapon set like everyone else.

So no, Ele doesn’t have “everything” Pretty much EVERY ele build sacrifices something.

Zerk – Toughness, Health, Survivability, Sustain
Bunker – Damage
Condi – Damage, Sustain

Unlike everyone else, An ele build has advantages and disadvantages. We can’t go zerker and still have good defense unlike most classes. We can’t go bunker and still do good damage unlike most others.

Wyrden.4713:

k for serious now..

tell what build u r running, including gears and weapons etc, can help u out after that

I am currently running Greatsword and Sword/Pistol. I know the Sword has Blurred Frenzy but the fact you can’t move or anything makes it a little bit weaker and now that its a Evade rather than Invul means that i can still be damaged through it.

Gear wise a bit of everything. I have 1,700 Power, just under 1,600 Toughness, 18.6k Health, 693 Condition Damage 35% Crit Chance and 69% Crit Damage.

Traits wise i am:

Domination(0) :
Dueling(25) : II, X
Chaos(30) : IV, V, XII
Inspiration(0)
Illusions(15) : II

Not quite sure what the idea of this build was when i actually first started making it.

NinjaEd.3946:

It only goes on a 40 second cooldown if you use it to escape, and don’t target anything.

In wvw, you can target an ambient creature.

In pvp, certain maps have boxes you can hit.

Ever try catching an ele with per-nerf rtl? It was literally impossible, it moved way to quickly and over the moon and it was a joke. Maybe 40 seconds was too much but hey, your #5 is also a 40 second cd so it has synergy even for being the most predictable combo out of any profession.

Non-ele player: “Here comes an ele, with rtl, and updraft… dodge…”
Ele player: “aww man how did I miss?”

Scene.

So, you haven’t heard of dodge, Aegis, Invul and other skills then? ALL of which even if you HIT the target put it on a 40 second cool down. It is strange that Ele mobility was broken and nerfed yet Warrior who currently have MUCH better mobility is perfectly fine….

To be fair like 90% of our weapon, utility and Elite skills have cool downs that are simply a joke.

Khalic.3561:

EDIT: I would really like to see a red comment on whether this was considering at some point.

Don’t hold your breathe i have a thread i made in the general balance forum. Has to be several weeks old now and not a single red message.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Sigils-Ele-and-Engineer-punished/page/2#post3816911

Though seeing as how it has conveniently bugged out and not showing (for me at least) any of the posts in it. I wouldnt be shocked if Anet broke it on purpose.

I main a Ele and i very much have fun with it. I do however like to play my Mesmer from time to time. The problem i have is defense. Sure we have Stealth, PU and Disoration but that is pretty much it.

When on my ele, i can take hits better (due to having very high Toughness) though that is countered by my lower health and i have plenty of access to mobility skills in combat as well as plenty of ways to heal in combat.

On my mesmer it seems seems i am rather weak. I know the big difference in Toughness accounts for some of it but it seems once i take damage i don’t really have any ways of regaining health without using my heal.

To me, it just seems Stealth and PU aren’t really enough to counter that. On my ele i have heals, i have boons, i have defensive skills and it just seems i can last that little bit longer in a fight. How do you guys go about building for defense?

Pteor.6421:

Elementalist has two less sigil sockets because they have twice as many weapon skills. More than a fair trade.

It is far from a fair trade when you actually look at them. Most have insane Cool downs and are sub par as well. Others are easily dodged and no threat at all. That is Anets problem. They think because ele have more skills that they are fine. They dont however take into account that most of the skills even though they are subpar compared to other classes they are also given an insane cool down as well.

Solori.6025:

Well with the new patch we are going to see some condi shatter’s because of the news GM trait.

Mesmer has in my experience great access to conditions mainly because of the stealth uptime which, depending on how you are built, is really decent.

You forgot to add that on top of having confusion last 33% longer we also have a phantasm that add’s 3 stacks of confusion on a relatively low CD and we can have multiple of them.

Shattering illusions can grant you anywhere from 3-8 stacks of confusion ( the 8 comes from the runes that will be nerfed ((lol)) )

I wouldn’t say our confusion upkeep is worse than an engineer’s. I would say our burst confusion is worse, but our sustain is much greater.

From my experience from playing both classes I fear mesmer condi’s much more than I fear engineer’s

That is true, though i didn’t see any number of how many Stacks the Torment would inflict, it could be a VERY solid option when you combine it with the 5point trait. The problem with Mesmer is when they go up against another Condi build. They have terrible access to condition removal.

The Phantasm though is rather poor. I just never really have liked the Torch. that is true Mesmer does have that extending trait. If you are like me and only 15 into Illusions (currently) i prefer Confusing Cry. Combined with IR it can be very helpful

Without any outside help you could get 6stacks of Confusion trait the traits. If you got lucky with the hit you could get more though as you said that won’t happen with the nerfs coming to Perplexity.

Totally agree. You have better sustain of confusion where as Engineer as MUCH the better burst and that itself is part of the problem. Who would take sustain of a couple of stacks of Confusion throughout the fight over being able to burst Confusion i have seen some Engineers alone hitting upwards of 16 stacks and that is without Perplexity and all the knockbacks and everything they have.

Having played Condi builds against both, Engineer is much harder to fight. If the Mesmer is pure Condi they just don’t have enough direct damage to really get you down faster than you can heal up (i play Condi Ele) Where as Engineer just has SO many conditions that they can easily spam, unless you are specifically built to counter them and they are semi decent you will lose.

Marquis.7412:

On the other hand, this is great for D/D Eles, who get wrecked pretty hard by confusion

Bu not great to D/D Condi eles who use this Runeset. I just hope that we are given alternatives when the update comes. Because we used it not because it was broken which it wasnt on Ele thanks to our low number of CC and the high cool downs they have but because the 4/6 meant we had reasonable up time on a new condition that would protect the damaging ones we have.

Pavel.8531:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thief: Head Shot – increase Initiative from 4 to 6

… So basically. The skill deals close no dmg. It deals 0.25s daze. Its only utility is being an interrupt. And you want the skill nerfed, because of a runeset. Well, kitten logic.

It is the fact it can be spammed over and over again. Combine that with Perplexity and its insane. Sure now that the 6/6 has a cool down it can’t proc Confusion every time but having an Interrupt on such a cost just doesn’t fit.

Even without the Runset being able to interrupt someone up to 4 to times one right after another isn’t skillful play, its spamming 1 button until you can’t spam it any more. Look at all the cool downs other classes get. The lowest is what 7 seconds with a trait and a specific weapon. Even without the Runset is is still a little bit too powerful. Seeing as it pretty much has a 4second cool down (1 initiative earned every 1 second) of course ignoring all other traits and such that grant more.

Solori.6025:

If you are going to nerf confusion for one class you do it for all..not just conveniently leave the class that has access to a lot of confusion and decent stealth up-time out of the equation.

Or…we could just nerf warrior’s

..like…
Why do they even have confusion?! 0_o

To be honest, i don’t think Warrior or Engineer should have Confusion at all. Also i count nerfs to 3 classes – Warrior Engineer and a minor one to Thief. Remember Engineer has access to stealth AND has better confusion access than Mesmer.

Mesmer Confusion:

Confusing Images – Channeled 1 stack per 1 second. 12second Cool down
Chaos Armor – RNG Proc. 35second cool down
Cry of Frustration – 30 second cool down. Max 3 stacks

Confusing Combatants – 25point trait. 1 stack of Confusion on clone death.
Illisionary Retribution – 5 point trait. Adds 1-3 stack of confusion to each shatter skill
Blinding Befuddlement – 1 stack of confusion on blind. 5 second cool down

That is the access Mesmer get. It looks decent, but in actual gameplay it doesnt really work out like that. For the class that was meant to be the Confusion class they have rather poor access to it compared to say Engineer. No one takes (or should take) Blinding Befuddlement. IR is rather weak unless you are high up in Illusions, in which case you are more than likely a shatter build. Could be Condi-Shatter.

NinjaEd.3946:

Why would they nerf the class, who was here to start with, and not nerf the runes? Can you explain that? So because Mesmer and engineer already have confusion and cc, and perplex adds more, you think they should just nerf the class? What if they don’t use perplex?

People are ridiculous in thinking these nerfs were unjustified. Runes were meant to fill the shoes of a build, not the meta (conditions).

So you think that nerfing a trait on a warrior and nerfing access to a condition on Engineer is really that big of a class nerf? They clearly felt the Confusion was too much and yet they have a trait on Warrior that gives LONGER duration Confusion with NO cool down and think that is fine? This is what i am talking about. That trait shouldn’t even be in the game or at least be given a 25-30second cool down and the amount of access to Confusion Engineer already has is insane.

You put this runeset on a Condition class that DOESN’T either have insane access to confusion or a insane amount of interrupts and it is fine. However when it is given to classes that have all of them it becomes VERY strong.

So why nerf the rune that was BALANCED for some classes instead of nerfing the few that was able to abuse it. This is Anets problem, it always has been they are terrible when it comes to balance.

All it would have taken is add a cool down to the Warrior trait and reduce the insane access to Confusion that Engineers have and it would have been fine.

As i have already said Mesmer is pretty much fine. They don’t have a lot of spammable CC or anything that can abuse it and the Confusion they do have is rather low in duration. Then look at Warrior insane number of interrupts and a trait that has NO cool down that can spam Confusion. Then look at Engineer who has A LOT of access to both confusion AND Interrupts. All that needed to be done:

Warrior:
Distracting Strikes: Add a 25-30 second Cool down.

Engineer:
Static Shot – reduce duration from 3 to 2seconds.
Pry Bar – Reduce Stacks from 5 to 3. Increase cool down to 20 seconds
Concussion Bomb – Reduce stacks from 5 to 3. Increase cool down to 25 seconds.

Thief:
Head Shot – increase Initiative from 4 to 6

That is pretty much it. That would mean the Runeset would still be strong but not insanely strong with specific classes that can abuse them unlike other classes that can’t. Of course anyone that actually plays these classes would say no because who would want the class you play to be nerfed (well really fixed) even when its something that is SO obviously broken and abused they still would rather it stay that way (Warrior Mobility for example)

Atoss.1056:

They said they changed a bit in every rune.

Yeah “a bit” is not good enough. Some of the runes need a total overhaul.

For me it was good because of the 4/6. The 6/6 was decent as well but the 4/6 was an easy to apply extra condition that covered the key conditions while still doing decent damage.

Making it so that it has gone from on hit to when hit is a rather big nerf for us, we want to be hit as least we can. That is the reason why i am hoping that some of the other Condition runes will get a real shake up to give us other options

Frightlight.3796:

yeah i like this idea remove our burning trait and give flamethrower burning on every hit to balance it out what you think guys?

The Flamethrower could be buffed a bit with Burning. They should require using FT if they really want Burning. Seeing as they have SO much access to easily spammable conditions.

Auto attack – Increase Burning to 2 seconds.
Flame Blast – Increase cool down to 10 seconds. Add 3 second Burning to the 2nd part.

I think this would be enough of a change.

Atoss.1056:

Wait for the changes then complain

I am not complaining. I am hoping that some of the less used and useless condition based runesets get turned into something that would be worth using. Made a post about it in the general balance forum with a couple of ideas how some could be changed.

I mean they could go all out and shake up EVERY runeset that would be pretty nice. Currently everyone pretty much uses Perplexity, Lyssa or Travelers. So many other rune sets wasted because they are not up to the standard they need to be.

I know. Keep it the way it is. However:

1) Make it Unblockable So that when i hit someone just because they have Aegis it should NOT put it on full cool down

2) Removes all Control CC – Cripple, Immbo, Chill, ect.

3) Immune to CC while in the Lightening form thing.

These changes happen and i would be fine for it to stay the way it is. The amount of times i have used it and been instantly given Immbo and such so i dont move is insane. It is VERY easy to dodge as it is. At least it could be used to remove things like Immbo, Chill and Cripple.