Guild Wars 2

Lingering Elements used to work with all trait lines during the beta weekends.

They nerfed to the abomination we have today.

I have arcane shield and armor of earth on my utility bar. I usually pop the shield when the first fears hits so I can block the incoming conditions and get some free damage in as it busts. Then I use armor of earth while I close in to seal the deal.

I play a 0/30/0/20/20 beserker d/d in hot joins and tPvP.
It also helps that I played the terror build long before the buff, so I already knew how to deal with necros that were specc’d that way.

Still don’t have a solution for the minion master, other than gain high ground and spam FGS #1.

Will you be creating, in the near future, a PBE server so that the public can help you test some of the trait/skill changes before they go live?

Thieves were already the most mobile and slipperiest prof even before the ele nerf. You can look in the history of the forums and see that there were always complaints about catching and killing a thief. The elementalist only had one skill that could actually disengage with marginal success. I say marginal, because if any other prof, save for the necro, really wanted to catch us, they could.

The patch only made it easier for an Ele to die, which wasn’t that big of a change to the daily life of the profession.

D/D only has a leap on Earth…that needs a target to do the leap.
Burning speed has a range of 600 which won’t let you out run anyone (especially if crippled or chilled)

So yea, running is actually the worst option because you most likely won’t escape as a D/D; and if you used burning speed, you are now short on damage.

To the OP,

If we had a “exact time set for attunement recharge rate” that was short (10 seconds) I believe we would be fine.

I play d/d, and I spec only 20 into arcana for the vigor on crit and the elemental attuning—neither of which feel necessary/mandatory for my success. So, while I agree that we do need more worthwhile defensive traits and actives for fire and air, I don’t agree that making any trait placement changes to the arcana trait line will alleviate the problem.

Of course, we won’t know what works until we’ve actually been given a chance to try builds that don’t require arcana to lower our attunement rate.

Cleansing water has 5 ICD vs Generosity with a 10 ICD that only activates on crit.

Now, as for the Battle, more often than not you will have more than 3 stacks of might ,provided you are using your blast finishers, or you have more boon duration in your runes, or both. So, as stated above, it will contribute to your damage a great deal of the time.

If you are looking to switch out a sigil for Generosity, then your only option would be to take out Battle. The reason being is that Generosity and Battle share ICD which means using them together is a no-no. See, when one goes on cool down, both go on CD. Imagine cleansing a one second cripple with generosity. Now you can’t use Battle till after the 10 ICD.

In my opinion, if you really want more condi clear, grab cleansing fire. Otherwise, you should be fine with attunement swapping and dodge rolls.

@The Great Al

You can go with what Nikkinella said and do 0/10/10/20/30 or 0/10/10/30/20 or 0/10/10/25/25 or 0/0/10/30/30. The 10 pts in earth is for the “10 % damage while in 600 range of you target” trait.

All in all, there really isn’t much change as far as the “d/d staple” build is concerned.

Grasping earth may seem wonderful, Talindra, but you must understand: It didn’t stop people from stomping us.

Actually, in the very beginning, Grasping Earth was our #2 skill. However, the immobilize wasn’t and isn’t strong enough to actually delay the inevitable. Hence, Anet listened to the community and switched it to 3, giving us Vapor form on 2.

Navzar.2938:

Ptolomy.6984:

Funny thing is I haven’t seen anyone mention the swiftness you can repeatedly get using fresh air. so its like a stealth in combat mobility buff. Coz i don’t think i am making a huge mistake by saying that almost every ele uses elemental attunement.

I think no one mentioned it because it was already easily maintainable for those using zephyr’s boon, but yeah that is pretty nice.
As for the skills on cd thing, the way I see it Fresh Air basically allows you to fight while always in air attunement, but being able to swap out quickly to use other attunement skills. So it’s kind of nice for three reasons.
1. You’re spamming electric discharge a lot more often.
2. Air scepter and dagger have some pretty nice auto attacks for direct damage.
Lightning strike on air scepter also has a 5 sec recharge, so it lines up well with this for sustained single target damage if you choose not to stay in air attunement.
3. Lots of swapping= swiftness and fury, maybe enough to replace zephyr’s boon?

3. It is enough to replace zephyr’s boon

Demon.5082:

CuRtoKy.8576:

If Arcane Shield broke stun then it has an extra benefit over mist form. You can use your skills and utilities with arcane shield up. The question is what you like more: block 3 hits or invul.

What people forget is the damage AS does when it blows. Its easily equal to the damage of a firegrab on non burning targets. Making it a stunbreak alerts your enemies to go on the defensive and you lose the explosion damage.

This already occurs when AS is used defensively anyway. Making it a stunbreaker wouldn’t significantly increase or decrease this from happening.

I was thinking the same thing.

Also: What advantage does this give us over swiftness?

You have the option to use the utility. If you don’t, then you have made your choice. If I want to kill a guardian (engineer, warrior, ranger) before his team nukes me down, I have to use a utility (Armor of Earth) for the stability.

Why should you have to be able to kill me without working for it?

Yuujin.1067:

Nikkinella.8254:

You lost all credibility you MIGHT have had right there. Even before all the massive nerfs, ele NEVER had the best mobility in the game. We were always below thieves, rangers and warriors if all 3 were specced for mobility. Most eles do spec for mobility because we have to thanks to our crappy stats. Thieves who don’t know how to play and spec only for damage and refuse to bring any type of CC abilities to battle kitten ed and moaned till they nerfed us to the point where we are now tied with necros and engineers on mobility. Eles having the best mobility was a myth created by bad thieves who refuse to spec to be mobile with CC yet expect to catch a mobile specced ele who can CC them.

Even with the increase on Ride the Lightning, you guys still have access to additional mobility oriented skills and swiftness more often than a thief. Thieves have not seen any increase to their mobility since March and you guys got an extra 20 seconds stamped onto Ride the Lightning.

After reading some of these responses, I can see you guys need to keep Vapor Form. Not because it requires skill to use, or its fair, or anything else for that matter, but because it’s clear you need it.

Roll an Ele and level it to 80 for wvw. Do it. I dare you.

You’ll realize that the so called “King of Mobility” sits on an empty throne of lies.

And if by chance, you’ve been outrun by an ele . I think you need to rethink how you play your thief. In other words, L2P.

Yuujin.1067:

Sunflowers.1729:

Yuujin.1067:

The reason I haven’t bothered to reply to any of your post is because you are clearly ignorant to the fact that has already been acknowledged by ANet. Since you’ve asked me to respond directly to you, I will.

Proof?

Yuujin.1067:

Strangely enough, neither of those abilities allows a thief to dive into a situation where he is outnumbered, die, and then retreat backs inside of his keep to safely heal himself out of his downed state. Come to think of it! They occupy utility slots and you lose then when you die.

Strangely enough, it lets me do just that, and I don’t even have to die to use it.

I’m done here. You are obviously unable to comprehend any argument, so talking any more with you is futile. Hope the patch hits you hard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCUvIrH2BlU

59:40 onward comparing Thief mobility to Elementalist mobility. Continue on, to 1:00:15.

As for you being done, good. You have your own argument you want to bring to the forums, but it has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread.

They are talking about sPvP. Did you not even watch the video?

I’ve read this whole thread, and I still cannot get over it.

Whether you be a thief or not, really doesn’t matter because now I have to question your actual skill level. Are you upset because an Ele got away, thereby costing you a loot bag? Were you 1v1 against an Ele next to his territory? If so, then you made a bad judgment call. You fought on his home turf, not yours. So of course he is going to get away.

Get over it.

The down state is there to help the player extend their life in various situations before eventually dying. Not all down states work in the same situation. And not, comparatively speaking, most classes don’t go into a downstate as often as an ele. Vapor form is obviously intended for the ele to get to safety. In the open field, that is back with her party, if she isn’t solo roaming. While defending on the rampart, its back inside their keep.

Whether it is cheap, or not, is a matter of opinion. The skill is meant to give Elementalist a chance to survive (run away), and where better than outside his own front door.

What if you wanted to use two attunements?

Toolbelt skills trigger sigils

You must also take into consideration that we have more available to us than other classes ( as far as skills are concerned). Our mechanic (and engineers) specializes in multiple skills, multiple weapon swaps.

For instance, think of how often we naturally trigger the weapon swap sigils as compared to other professions. I think you’ll see that the advantage is still ours, even under the effect of chill.

I personally run hydromancy sigil on my weapons for the added chill. So my opinion is going to be biased.

My answer to your question: yes, it should be affected by chill.

I’m an Elementalist, so I understand what you are concerned about. However, if you burn through 3 of 4 attunements and then get chilled, I think you’ve been outplayed at that point.

Chill affects our class mechanic, and, hopefully, it affects the other classes as well (their mechanic, not the weapon swap). Really, I’ve been wondering if chill affects the thief initiative regen since they are resource dependent.

But overall, chill increasing our attunement swaps when we are hit with it seems more “working as intended.”

1. You’ll have to clarify what you mean by worthless. Vital Striking while adding dmg (as I have used it before) is easily lost during the course of a fight. I don’t rely on my cantrips (as I haven’t traited them for boons of any sort) so the cd reduction wouldn’t be as beneficial to me.
2. Again, you will need to clarify what you mean by worthless. Elemental shielding is good and I have used it before, but I find I have enough protection duration between attunement swaps and earth’s embrace.
3. personal preference on my part
4. Tired typing. I meant Wave not Blast. Will edit.
5. Cleansing is there because I solo tpvp. I use LF only when I am rolling with my guild mates.
6. Not the end of the world. I still have 25 % crit damage and enough fury to crit when I need (and don’t really need) too.

Goal: Tanky damage dealer? I suppose. I find that with this build, I am less reliant on burst and more a sustain damage dealer who likes to stay in the opponents face. The condition damage (from the 210 I get normally + the minimum of 5 stacks of might), cripple/chill combo, and normal cc makes it easy to stick to a target.

I believe I’ve already addressed this, but I’ll say it again for clarity’s sake. Since might has a good enough duration as is, I didn’t feel the need to grab battle. I’m still have access to might stacks from the normal Fire 2 + Arcane blast and Fire 4 + Earth 4+ Earth 5 (“get the kitten off my point” skill). I have my might when I need it, and can get it back over the course of the fight when necessary. Read as "I’ve not been caught with my pants down, even when focused.

The thinking behind this is being able to stay in the fight longer and still put out the necessary offense (whether 1 v 1 or in teamfights—especially in teamfights). I use to play 0/20/0/20/30, so I know that my damage has taken a slight hit. However, the hit I took to damage was in favor of increasing my ability to survive as well as provide some extra cc—there is something magical about crippling and chilling an opponent in 1 attunement swap—and condition dmg.

It feels…sturdier than the burstier 0/20/0/20/30 build.

Give it a try and tell me what you think afterwards. Not on the NPCs, please. You could kill them while going 0/0/0/0/0.

http://tinyurl.com/kvcs2r8

0/0/20/20/30

D/D (because it fits my flow)

Taking “Earth’s Embrace” and “Geomancer’s Freedom” in Earth, and “Cleansing Wave” and “Stop Drop and Roll” in Water.

Standard Arcane Traits- V, VI, and XI

5 Ogre’s and 1 Divinity

Hydromancy and Accuracy Sigil

Valkyrie Amulet with a Berserker’s eye shoved into the middle of it.

Signet of Restoration

Cleansing Flame
Arcane Wave (edit 6/4/13)
Mist form

Glyph of Elementals

What are your thoughts?

If you take 10/20/10/20/10 and grab Earth trait III- Earth’s Embrace, you’ll then have 2 Ar of Ea. So if you want Ether Renewal, you can still use it. Or you can keep using signet of restoration. Either way, you’ve got 4 cantrips now (12 might stacks) so something should die within that time.

Or, you can take 0/20/10/20/20 and grab Final Shielding to couple with your two Armor of Earths, keeping sigil of battle since you won’t betting might from cantrips anymore.

Just be careful when you trait into arcane. It’s very tempting to just go back to 30. I assure you, we can live at 20 and below.

If you are feeling up to it, try this variation: http://tinyurl.com/baa7qgf
10/15/10/20/15

Attunement Recharge- 11.5s (~12s on your utility bar since the display rounds up)

Fire – IV
Air- VI (you can take ‘I’ if you wish. I personally favor ‘VI’ over ‘I’)
Earth- III
Water- III and V
Arcane- V

Sigil of battle and accuracy
4 Ogre runes and 2 Fire (might duration)

With four cantrips, attunement swaps, and significant might duration you are looking at an avg of 18 stacks of might (+ or – 3) over the course of a fight. The rest is up to you.

Stealth.9324:

Asurmir.7956:

@Justbob
I haven’t been keeping record of my crit damage with arcane blast since I typically use it to either bait a dodge or finish an escaping opponent. I could start using it more often for the middle of the fights and get back to you.

Recently, I’ve started taking cleansing fire for the condition removal instead of arcane blast. My reason for this is because A. Wave feels like just enough to keep the pressure on for most fights. I’v also been switching between LF and MF depending on whether the enemy has a thief or mesmer (MF against burst) on their team.

Arcane shielding would be a great substitute for blast, since it would aid in getting off churning earth. Even if you do not use it for churning, the block is still work it.

@Stealth
This build can work quite well in duels. With that said, I believe a disclaimer is in order. If you were/are having issues fighting engis, rangers, thieves, and mesmers in their fotm builds while using Ele bunker/hybrid, don’t expect to do well with this build.

The reason I say this is because of the 3.25 second increase on the attunement recharge. Typically, we swap into water when are having trouble. The first swap is fine. However, if you find that you swap in and out of water whenever it is up, you’re going to have a bad time. You need (read: it is absolutely necessary) to have good micro-managing skills and dodging skills. Or else you will meet your fate over and over—which may drive you to pick up the bunker set-up again.

It takes time, and patience to get use to the higher CD on swaps. But, I believe it is worth it.
I would actually like to make a detailed comparison of what 30 in arcane actually gives us.

Yes, I am using this build against all class, but except Eles (thanks to their low dams as a bunker) Warrior (able to burst them down thanks to their squishiness),Mesmer is 50/50 ,pretty much all other class, I have trouble dealing with, including Guardian. It is not direct dams that worries me, it is the condition dams that eat me alive due to no longer have access to Water as fast as bf,what is your tips on dealing with in this matter?

Stealth, tell me the traits you are using and the utilities. If possible, tell me your opponent’s profession.

Conditions are a nightmare, plain and simple. Not to say that you can’t do anything about them, but it will be an uphill battle the whole way. You’ll need to create pressure on your opponent from start to finish. Depending on the opponent, this can be difficult or insufferably hard. So, give me your set-up and we’ll workout a strategy.

I’ve been playing around with Chill and its duration. I really love that condition. http://tinyurl.com/aszbmnf

Never underestimate the power of a 66% increase in enemy CDs. It is magical.

@Justbob
I haven’t been keeping record of my crit damage with arcane blast since I typically use it to either bait a dodge or finish an escaping opponent. I could start using it more often for the middle of the fights and get back to you.

Recently, I’ve started taking cleansing fire for the condition removal instead of arcane blast. My reason for this is because A. Wave feels like just enough to keep the pressure on for most fights. I’v also been switching between LF and MF depending on whether the enemy has a thief or mesmer (MF against burst) on their team.

Arcane shielding would be a great substitute for blast, since it would aid in getting off churning earth. Even if you do not use it for churning, the block is still work it.

@Stealth
This build can work quite well in duels. With that said, I believe a disclaimer is in order. If you were/are having issues fighting engis, rangers, thieves, and mesmers in their fotm builds while using Ele bunker/hybrid, don’t expect to do well with this build.

The reason I say this is because of the 3.25 second increase on the attunement recharge. Typically, we swap into water when are having trouble. The first swap is fine. However, if you find that you swap in and out of water whenever it is up, you’re going to have a bad time. You need (read: it is absolutely necessary) to have good micro-managing skills and dodging skills. Or else you will meet your fate over and over—which may drive you to pick up the bunker set-up again.

It takes time, and patience to get use to the higher CD on swaps. But, I believe it is worth it.
I would actually like to make a detailed comparison of what 30 in arcane actually gives us.

Which one is the real one?

Are you having problems discerning between the real mesmer and his clones? Go to options and unclick “Show all enemy names” “NPC Names” and make sure to click “Show all player names”
Now you can see the real mesmer’s name tag. The rest is up to you.

Dragon Claw

d/ auto attack.
Not dragon tooth.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Those that consider reduced attunement recharge rate is a complete must, are usually players that spam buttons without paying attention at anything else coming from your opponent. Those that are perfectly fine with 0 in arcana in pvp pay more attention in combat and never run out of useful skills to use while waiting for attunement to recharge. Again the easy mode will always be taken as a must.

And when you lose to another player that takes 30 in arcane, do you say that he was just spamming buttons and has no skill?

Come off the high horse for a moment and reason with me. Players that say it is a must to take 30 in arcane usually play with a different rhythm than those who take 20, 10, or none at all. There is no actual hierarchy between the groups, just a different play-style. We all have 70 traits to spend. If you are not spending 30 in arcane, then you are spending it some where else. In other words, you have something that other players miss out on. Something to augment the higher cool down on your attunement swapping that works for your play-style.

I like to use duels as a way to test myself for tourneys. I find that if you can’t take care of yourself in a 1v1 fight, then you’re more likely to be the weakest link on your team. I’ve attempted to play with 0 in arcane, and just didn’t feel right for me. It didn’t feel like a smooth transition from element to element. That is just me, though, and I’m sure others have found success with the base cd. (I’ve yet to see evidence of this, but I am still hopeful for a video.)
Some time ago, I posted that a lower base cool down would help with creating build diversity—something like 12 1/2 seconds. I find that that is a more reasonable recharge than 15.

Justbob.5897:

innocent ouarior.1954:

Nice vids, great teamplay.

However I fail to understand how is 25 air better than 30 water.

I guess it depends on play style. Sure the vulnerability on crit may not seem worth it, I think of it as just another boon the enemy has to take off. In most cases saving my fire or bleed from getting removed. I’ve had success of getting 10+ stacks (very quickly) while auto attacking in water on a bunker. Also switching to berserker will drastically improve results.

Im not ignorant of the survivability of the water trait line, but my goal is to get away from both water and arcana trait line. Its mostly due to my personal vendetta with the bunker builds. lol

This right here is like my own personal mantra written by another man. Bob, I admire your endeavor.

I also happened to see that you’ve played two builds that I played as well. Though, I dont go for might stacks via Battle. I figure, sense we are a close-quarters profession, Hydromancy’s chill will help with slowing enemy CDs.

Have you tried 10/20/10/20/10, taking Earth’s Embrace and substituting armor of earth with Arcane Wave. Since you like might stacks the blast will help, and you still have Armor of Earth when you get low.

I, myself, play with two arcanes (wave and blast) because I figure that the best way to ensure my survival is by killing my opponent as quickly as possible.

Vaugh.7193:

I got 0 points in arcana and I can still survive alot longer than other classes and players that I play with. I used to have 30 points there, but I put them into fire instead, works better for me.

There is no need to base all your builds on arcana.

When you speak about surviving a lot longer than other classes and players, in what context are you speaking? PvE? s/tPvP? in WvW? small group skirmish? or large group battles?

Lupanic.6502:

With this build you will die always first. 1 condition remove every 20 sec. low HP, low armour. I guess this will be funny in hotjoins but not really in tPvP

I’m not an Engi player by no means, but would this alleviate some of the problem? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piYH5y2F17IyoHdmoRagKYXfewWtFEC-TkAg0CvI2RtjbHzOyds7MsA

Edit: I’m here because the class fascinates me.

blackgoat.5172:

I’m experimenting with a non bunker D/D build in sPvP right now with only 20 points in Arcane (11 sec cooldown) and it’s working, the 2 extra seconds have tripped me up a few times but I’m getting used to it. Also been enjoying catching people off guard since most people see a D/D coming at them and assume bunker. You’ve got me thinking though, maybe I’ll give it a shot with only 10 points. I could definitely put those points to use somewhere else

I’ve come to realize that the higher your cooldown, the more you’ll be auto-attacking. A helpful warning: water attunement is the last attunement you want to be stuck in. Believe it, or not, I actually use water first for a few auto attacks, frozen burst and frost aura. And then I use fire, because its easier to land burst on a chilled opponent.

But yeah, haven’t quite gotten use to 15 seconds yet. Still working on it with a 25/15/10/20/0 set up.

In regards to attunement swapping: Have any of you found success in PvP while using the base cool down?

I ask because I am trying to learn the flow of the elementalist that doesn’t dip into the arcane line. I’ve been able to play effectively with only 10 pts (12 1/2s cd) in arcane, but it seems—it feels like the extra 2 seconds is an insurmountable wall.

So, I am curious if there are any other brave souls attempting to live—to thrive with a higher cd.

Hello ello Bas,
I’m game for another round

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I’m done, I spent all day theorycrafting with Elementalist to see if they are underpowered without their soon-to-be-nerfed things. They aren’t.

As for the builds, figure them out yourself, if I can figure out these builds, you should be able to as well.

I sincerely doubt that you have created anything that would be considered an effective build in just one sitting of theorycrafting (which is just that: theory).

I’ve grown tired of the constant nerfs to the elementalist. Yes, the bunker D/D needed a nerf. However, everyone should know that not every elementalist that uses x/D or x/F is a bunker. The nerf that this profession receives tomorrow will not stop bunker builds. It will only hinder other builds. That is the big issue that has been bothering the Elementalist community.

The majority of the Elementalist community wants to be able to actually a fighting chance outside of some lame, point holding, barely viable sustained damage build. It is incredibly frustrating to be forced (yes, “forced” thanks to the nature of the game mode that is conquest) into playing bunker/hybrid bunker if you want to have a real chance at winning.

That’s why there is QQ. Because we are still waiting for ANet to aid the other builds.

I have come to see that the recharge rate is necessary, because it force us to pace ourselves. Think about switching in to fire and air attunement too eary, most of my skills on cooldown—disrupting my flow of combat. So, for the elementalist, Im glad that we have this kind of mechanic. At the same time, i recognize that it isnt able to stand alone like the rangers per or the guards virtue…on and on—you get my point. So, I would like to see that happen.

And as someone said before, we’d still trait into arcane 30. Its just so worth it. I just want to help out my staff and scepter brothers too.

@TheGuy
I take no offense to what is true. I have also posted about this very topic before.

It seems like we are beating a dead horse, but it has been a problem for a very long time. I’ve attempted to go into pvp with no points in arcane. It doesnt work. Mainly because the 15 seconds is too high.

Mesmers, Thieves, warriors, Guardians, Rangers, necroes and engis can ignore their special trait line and still be effective.

Elementalist need to be able to do the same.

I was thinking about the core of the elemental build problem. It really does come down to the arcane trait line and its relationship to attunement recharge rate.

I was inspired by the warrior trait line Discipline which offered 1% bonus damage per 10 points.

So, what if our attunement recharge was a base 12 1/2 seconds, and the arcane trait line offered a flat 1 second cool down per 10 points.

I think that alone would open up more build possibilities.

You’re links do not work.

I’m game.
IGN: Asurmir Ravenclaw
Availability: 5:30-8:30
Recording: None

frostflare.6390:

I am against this gung-hoe. The way it is now is not great-But it certainly does not lock weapons into traits. You don’t have to be a FIRE ELE to weild a staff right now. If we go along the proposed ideal-That would mean that if I ever want to be Faster usesing a staff, I HAVE to be a fire ele, I have to take that power trait. That is wrong.

Then we get pushed back into 3-builds that everyone runs because everything else sucks.
Fire/Arcana Staff ele
Air/Arcana Dagger Ele
Earth/Arcana Scepter Ele.

That is way to limiting. Not to mention I have 2 alacrities, Hydro and Geo and combined with fast attunment swapping I actually USE all of those on cooldown. Yet in the middle of a dungeon if I need more survivability I can grab my focus and scepter and still work it. I am not locked into being a staff fire ele. It would just really harm the ele if anything.

Hmmmmm….

20pts in Fire =200 power. Cool.
Blasters alacrity= 20% lowered CD on ALL staff skills? (Earth, Wind, Fire, Water…Heart?)

50pts left for whatever you want?

I…I don’t see how this would limit us.

After fighting and killing two thieves in an attempt to defend the Red Lord.

Thief 1: Lmboooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Me: /bow

The archetype mage no longer focuses around spamming spells at a distance. There are many different variations. In fact, to suggest that mesmer are able to fight up close because they use illusions isn’t really a sound argument.

All three of the casters, Mesmers/Eles/Necros, are able to use staves, scepters, and foci if they wish to pursue mid- to long-range fighting. For close-range, mesmers have swords (not the G Sword because that does more damage at mid and long range), elementalist have daggers, and necros have daggers/axes/warhorns (close to mid range).

The notion of a squishy mage is but one type of mage that either profession is capable of playing.

As for the topic, we probably wont be getting a great sword for two reasons.
As mentioned before, we have the fiery great sword elite (which I fancy in pvp). Anet would most likely have to retire that elite, create another in its place, and come up with the three other attunement skills.

Also, as mentioned before, mesmers would lose a bit of their uniqueness which I am not to keen on.

The second, and arguably most important, problem is with the traits.

As they are now, they lack in synergy and need more reworkings (save for water line and cantrips). Really, before we can have ANY new weapon the traits need to be worked over.

Apolo.5942:

- Armor/Toughness in this game is inconsequential.
- Eles should not have melee builds period.

I’m curious as to why you believe that Eles shouldn’t have melee.

Intigo.1653:

What ‘top tier players’ are you talking about?

Note the usage of quotes in the OP. I use it because its a familiar term that is used frequently on the forums to recognize popular streamers. As for my actual feelings on the matter…GW2 isn’t big enough for a real distinction among players in PvP.

Anyway, I am pretty much in agreement with what everyone has stated. I was just hoping that maybe…just maybe, someone found something with a different flavor. As for me, I am using 0/20/15/15/20. I’m still not the biggest fan of the Arcane line limiting choices, and I never will be. But yeah, I was hoping that some one found another useful build.

Since that doesn’t seem to be happening, I really wonder what will happen if the Elementalist is nerfed in the future.

I’ve been sifting through the forums, focusing primarily on the profession of Elementalist. Having been a part of this profession since launch, taking a hiatus due to work, and then coming back to, what many claim as refuse. I have to wonder about the state of the Elementalist.

I’ve seen and played with the 0/10/0/30/30 bunker build and its variations. I must be honest, while it survives in a war of attrition, it still doesn’t feel powerful. It feels more around the realm of “ok, I can heal myself through this and wait for an opening.” In short, I don’t feel proactive, but reactive in my bouts.

I’ve spent my time watching the streams of other Elementalists and, much to my dismay, the builds do not vary much. When I left GW2 the fist time, Elementalist were expected to trait 30 into Arcane. Now, I have learned that the requirements to play well have increased to include 30 points into Water (or no less than 15 ).

Now, it seems that this build, or the healing aspect, has come under the ever watchful eye of ANet. It is quite possible that a nerf is on the horizon (I hope not for my brethren’s sake).

Amid the hubba, though, some of the “top tier” players are even welcoming the possibility of a nerf. Some even mention that there are other viable builds.

Other viable builds. These words caught my interest. I would love to see these builds, tried and tested in the fires of the arena. More specifically, I am interested in builds that do not rely heavily on Arcane or Water (those bases have been covered).

In short, are there really other viable builds? What are they? And, most importantly, why are they not used regularly?

“Any data that is collected from player vs player will be based on player skill level…”

Agreed. And that is how it should be. The Elementalist needs to be examined at all skill levels in order for an appropriate fix can be made. Otherwise, its just guess work of buff and nerf…like the horrible mmo-coaster that was/is Ragnarok Online.

“The amount of data you have to collect to even out the deviation will be huge..”
That just made me smile because you’re speaking my language. And, unfortunately, you are right. That, however, does not make the task insurmountable.

“And there will be trolls there too, whose data will you trust?…”
You basically described the world of research. Trolls exist. They can’t be weeded out completely.

“Instead collect statistical numerical data if you want to.. Open up a bunch of characters, equip them with same amulets/sigils etc in the mists, record your auto-attack dps / full on attack dps, heals… Compare character stats, buff stacking capabilities etc… If they are significantly lower… Well you have your definitive answer.. Since active defenses part can only be theorized under these cirumcstances, there’s a margin of error.. But that margin is a lot lower than what you’re proposing if you ask me…”
You’re right. I am looking for something greater.

“And Anet can get all the numerical data they want themselves, if they want to.. I guess that’s what they were refering to as gathering data.. Every point of damage you deal to any mob or player can be recorded…They can event collect your client data like your cpu/gpu usage, fps etc… What they cannot collect, is situational bugs of skills, like ride the lightning problems etc.. And that’s the only kind of help they seem to appreciate..”
That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t/won’t appreciate the help of the community in other areas. Bugs are instances that need an immediate fix. The performance of the Elementalist as a profession, not so much.

“I do have an idea of my own on how those numbers do look like…”
As do I, however, the go to evidence is lacking. Therefore, stating such ideas would only continue the flames agony that is the argument on the State of the Elementalist.

Thank you, ThiBash, for your post.

“Using numbers for things like that suggests an accuracy that doesn’t exist. The player could be very poor at aiming, or excellent and we wouldn’t know.”

You are correct in this statement, but what you’re missing is that individual differences disappear as the data is collected. By collecting from every skill level an accurate picture of the profession as a whole can be depicted.

Besides, I’d say that having to write down whether your skills hit or not will greatly affect your playing effectiveness as a whole.

That can be solved through programs that record gameplay. Record and review, which is something any player truly wants to improve should be doing anyway.

You may value numbers more but ‘our skills are to difficult to hit stuff with’ is actually valid feedback."

Valid feedback? Yes.
Reliable? No.
That’s why such data is needed. By giving reliable feedback—statistics of performance—the problem becomes clearer.

Keep in mind, this is something that ANet Testers must do on their own. I am merely asking for the community to provide aid.

Hammerheart.1426:

Hammerheart, oh Hammerheart, you’re posting what has been posted long ago. And, while I would agree with you on some points, I must say that what you see as “fact” others can call “fiction.” Numbers, my friend, must be added to back up your claims.

The amount of hard numbers you’re asking for is unrealistic. You can’t reasonably expect a community of strangers to start putting their nose to the grindstone to come up with enough data to support your “idea.”

I’m positive Anet has seen where they fouled up with the Elementalist and is in the process of fixing us.

Quite honestly, ANet has already stated that they are looking for actual data from the community as a whole. This is really an idea to help get the community involved to speed up the idea. A good alternative to complaining here in the forums, don’t you think?
And my idea is just that, an idea. It isn’t perfect and needs work, but with the community that doesn’t have to be all that difficult.
When gathering data, if you collect from everyone’s input it is possible to create the necessary curve without anyone having to go through strenuous work. Stranger, or not, I’d rather fight for this profession than idly twiddling my thumbs.

Hammerheart.1426:

Fact: Attunement twisting CD’s are almost twice that of other classes weapon switching

Fact: Attunement twisting is a built in neccessity to obtain not laughable damage.

Fact: Our damage is easier to avoid. (looking at you dragon’s tooth)

Fact: Our glass cannon builds do not come close to the damage of other classes.

Fact: You can’t trust pvp videos.

Hammerheart, oh Hammerheart, you’re posting what has been posted long ago. And, while I would agree with you on some points, I must say that what you see as “fact” others can call “fiction.” Numbers, my friend, must be added to back up your claims.

mickers.2715:

Ive played all the classes and i can say our damage is too easy to avoid, I cant say for dagger dagger though , dont like the sound of dagger. Sceptre dagger dragontooth and phoenix are pretty sluggish. And staying in air isnt a option because it hits for less than most classes auto hits. Our heal abilities are also significantly lower.

Rangers heals without traits, 6.5k 20 second cd

healing spring about 15k if you stand in the regen for full duration 25s cooldown, also heals nearby allies for 5k if they stay in the regen

Troll unget 8.5k heal 25 second cd

Ele with 20 points in water ill redo it again probs later but im going bed soon and cba to reset traits
signet of restoration 3.3k heal 222 heal on spell cast 25s cd, you cant use it though unless you want to trait heavily into earth for signets passive stays.

Glyph heal 5k with 25 second cd gives a short buff, if you attune to water it can heal about 6.5k

Im not sure about ether renewal but its a 4 second channel so you cant move or do damage.

Good sir, I thank you for your post. Unfortunately, you’re posting what I like to call ‘stagnant data’. We need specifics from being in combat. Instead of “our damage is too easily avoidable”, we need “I’ve hit 37 out of 100 dragontooths.” I know its a difficult task, but it can be done. The more precise the data, the better we can see where the chips have fallen.