Guild Wars 2

Didn’t Anet talk about visiting the damage formula?

Burning is meant to be easily applied and easily removed. This is balanced by Burning being the most damaging condition with the least amount of stat input.

With that and everything every other post has said in mind:
What you are suggesting wouldn’t work with the mechanics behind burning.

havoc.6814:

On topic: RTL does not need a reversal of the nerf.

The skill is not really comparable to Rush. Sure, both have 1200 range, but rush does not track it’s target as RTL does. RTL is effected by knockdowns, but not by other movement imparing effects (such as cripple). Rush, on the other hand, is effected by all movement-impairing effects. RTL can be used to negate fall damage, and to even attack a foe from off of an elevation ( a cliffside) without taking the falling damage that would normally result, or to cross gaps that are too far to jump. Rush can do none of that. RTL has an AOE attack at the end of it, Rush has a single player attack, which does not even cleave. Both skills are buggy, but that is a bug issue and not a balance issue. Comparing RTL and Rush also ignores other factors related to balance between both professions.

RTL needs to be bug-fixed, as does Rush, but does not need a reversal of the previous nerf.

You seemed to be misinformed about the RTL.

1. It is affected by another movement impairing condition: Immobilize
Also, it cannot be traited to break free from this condition

2. RTL cannot be used to negate fall damage: Neither by starting off in RTL at the beginning of the jump, nor by using RTL before landing. (Just tested this in the mist. Make an Ele and see for yourself.)

3. RTL in the beginning of the game was able to jump gaps. That has already been severely nerfed. If an ele tries to jump a gap with RTL they begin falling immediately after leaving the cliff.

I’m not quite sure but I do believe Fire storm is like Meteor Storm in that each individual fireball will hit up to 5 targets. As long as they stay within the glyph’s aoe zone.

I only looked at the trait setup.

I would suggest Earth V since it procs with Tempest defense.

To answer your question: I have attempted to use it in s/tPvp as a d/d ele with mild success. For me, it just didn’t proc as often as I needed.

And yes, it works with thief’s basilisk venom (the primary reason why I took it).

No, it isn’t always possible to avoid an attack that you didn’t see coming. That goes for any profession.

Most times, however, you will see the attacks of an Elementalist coming because there is no stealth mechanic to hide them (unless aided by another profession). Basically, the combo you were hit with isn’t anywhere near guaranteed to land—even in the hands of a skilled elementalist.

And the “one dodge” reasoning is very accurate. One dodge will disrupt the combo, and leave the opposing elementalist at a major disadvantage because of the lack of inherent defensive mechanics.

@J Night

I see that you haven’t yet dove into wvw/spvp so you may not understand some of our frustrations. The moving of traits did not hit pve as hard as it hit wvw and spvp. We CANT simply make a new build and continue you playing. It would be great if we could, but that is not possible in this current iteration of the game.

I’ve been playing the Ele since beta. I came to the game wanting to play a close-combat mage. From the previews, I thought mesmer would be closer to that, but I soon found that the execution didn’t match my preferred playstyle. D/D Ele was perfect for me (in the beginning), as I don’t like the archetype mage style of sitting back where it is safe (staff). I also do not like any of the skills on scepter.

And after a year of commitment to the Ele (being my only level 80 since I don’t enjoy the other professions), I’m stuck in a failing relationship. I’m not sure I even enjoy this game anymore.

It does reduce the trait CD for cleansing fire. That is working as intended. The earth trait equivalent will be fixed in the future so that the CD is lowered as well. Just going to have to wait for Anet to get around to it.

Am I the only one that wishes tornado had the effect of Pull instead of blowout?

If I have to slowly creep along giant neon sign “saying kill me”, I at least want something to make kiting this form somewhat more difficult.

I’ve been thinking about this as well. Even now, I have a tab open to GW2 Builder. My concern is about having access to protection and it’s duration.

I’ve thought about 20/15/15/20/0 or 20/20/10/20/0 or 20/20/20/10/0.

I keep running into the same fears though: “Will the reduced base recharge be enough?” “Is there enough protection duration without spending points in Arcane?”

I’m leaning more to adopting a ‘wait-n-see’ stance, because this is driving me a bit crazy.

Variation 1. Total points: 80+

No offense, but I am unconcerned with the gameplay.

I want to know about this ps3 controller setup you got going on.

UltraHiDef.4809:

Using a PS3 controller here.

How?

HOW?!

They updated the preview to the notes.
http://dulfy.net/2013/11/01/gw2-dec-10-class-balance-patch-preview/

I am in favor of arenas, specifically 3v3. Someone stated before that 2v2 is open to bunker/buster steamrolling pairs, not that enjoyable to play or watch.

If a moba-like mode were created, I would say look at SMITE. However, many among the community do not like the AI factor involved in the game in its current state. Adding a moba-mode wouldn’t help, but increase frustration.

I believe a Siege and Assault mode would be best, something involving Castles and Guild Lords.

Of course, to prevent stagnation there would need to be several resources to manage and more ways to gain entry to the castle than there are players to defend the castle.
And it should be a game mode consisting of 3 rounds so that both teams can play defenders at least once.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Would you, or would you not agree that this issue of it being evaded/blocked/blinded is a rather serious one, is all I’m simply stating. I’m not here to talk about the class as a whole, if you want to talk about the class as a whole go make a thread with that sort of topic in mind. This is about RTL. All I’m asking is that we talk about RTL. Nothing more, nothing less. Don’t you agree about this problem? If so, state your reasons. If not, elaborate.

I’m not here to talk about the class as a whole, nor am I here to talk about RTL. I’m only here to submit a friendly warning of ’don’t get your hopes up.’

As for me, I know there are problems, however I am simply tired of talking about them—posting into the void. If your thread gets Anet’s attention, awesome. Hopefully we’ll get answers. Until then, I’ve given up trying to talk about the issues of this profession (big or small). I’ve chosen to simply play the game and take long breaks when frustrated. Nothing more, nothing less.

The Game Slayer.7632:

This is the exact kind of behavior im talking about. Maybe it hasnt crossed your mind yet, but have you ever thought that ALLL those other times where people brought up RTL, that maybe, just maybe, they were being just a little bit rude and accusatory towards a-net?
If the ele community could ONCE have a real discussion about a nerf, then MAYBE we would get a Dev to answer us. Instead most of you ele players don’t have the forethought to understand that developers are PEOPLE like you, not machines. Put yourself in their shoes, i mean that.

I must agree with dreztina. You are being considerably naive in your statements. Ride the Lightning has been the subject of many posts dedicated to asking, demanding, and/or begging for the nerf to be revisited and reversed. These posts have ranged from positive to negative, constructive to toxic.

While the attitudes of each poster was different, they were all treated the same. These posts did not receive any visible acknowledgment from Anet.

Now, it is possible that the Devs are watching this forum. It is possible that they are indeed listening and considering our thoughts. Unfortunately, we do not have the proof that say this is indeed what is happening.

ArenaNet is lacking in the customer service department. Feelings aside: This is business. The customers are unhappy. They need to start communicating with their customers; and they need to go beyond hosting 30min to 1 hr “tutorial” streams.

On topic, I applaud your effort to address an issue that has been plaguing the elementalist community. However, I must agree with TheGuy. When it comes down to it, the elementalist has too many core issues. Even if RTL were reverted, the fix would be similar to applying a single band-aid to multiple gunshot wounds.

Zelyhn.8069:

Asurmir.7956:

I regret to inform you guys that this was working as described during beta. However! It proved to be one of the many elements that made Ele “OP”, so they nerf’d the application to just the first minor traits.

Unfortunately, it is now considered as “working as intended”

The trait is not doing what the tooltip says it should be doing, so there is a bug.

If they “fixed” this bug to work only with adept minor traits I would be angry, very angry.

Be very very angry. This was complained and talked about since before release. Go ahead and check. I did some forum diving, and it made my heart sink.

I regret to inform you guys that this was working as described during beta. However! It proved to be one of the many elements that made Ele “OP”, so they nerf’d the application to just the first minor traits.

Unfortunately, it is now considered as “working as intended”

Adastra, you spoke about the CD of a Staff Skill in a thread about a Dagger skill.

Do you even play the Elementalist?

In any case, the number of skills does not make up for the cool downs, the skill delays, or the poor hitboxes on our skills. The skills of the elementalist are lacking in quality. I am sure many here on the forum would prefer to have 10 reliable, low cool down skills at their disposal, rather than the 20 skills that barely allow us to affect our environment.

Before you continue, I want to ask you: In all seriousness, what is the point in digging into the damage difference between skills?

What is the aim, the overall goal, of this post?

Nero, what profession did you play before ele?

You should practice more against that profession as you learn the elementalist because of your previous knowledge. From that point on it becomes trial and error.

Granted, Daphoenix’s guide is good, but it is not nearly to get you ready for sPvP teamfights or duels. So, I suggest you practice against friends and professions that you’ve played for a lengthy amount of time.

Also, search around these forums because there are plenty of individuals who can help. Like Nikkinella, Raif, or LightningBlaze.

Retaliation is not fine. As stated before, there are those that have near permanent upkeep of retal; and not hitting your opponent is by far the worst strategy you could use to defeat a bunker.

At the same time, retal doesn’t punish single attacks that do a serious amount of damage. Changing it to a % base would bring down the damage on multi-hits and up the damage done on big hits. And changing how often it can be applied would serve to make its use based more around strategic application.

Oozo.7856:

Silentstorm.7531:

Brings a tear to my eye. I remember when I first made a GS/Staff build. Dudes here hated on it. And people hated on a clicker well yea….suck it on both counts lol.

Clicking utilities and weapon skills is still not good. That is not to say that someone who clicks is a bad player. It is however very true that they would be better if they stopped clicking and used keybinds.

There isn’t an actual guarantee that if a person went from clicking to keybinding he/she would improve upon his/her skill. In fact, there isn’t really a guarantee that said person would even be able to maintain the same skill level. So, while it may seem optimal for one person, it could very well be sub-optimal for another.

Stunningstyles has video proof that he can hang with the big dogs using a combination of keybinding and clicking.

The game even supports his clicking thanks to skill buffering. So, even if he did only use keybinding, the speed increase in keystrokes wouldn’t be as noticeable.

Those most likely benefit Styles would get from stopping clicking, would be reduced stress on the wrist and forearm. Even then, that isn’t guaranteed either.

Asurmir Ravenclaw

Asurmir is my newest name thanks to other games like LoL and Skyrim.

Okay. I was concerned since both Earth Embrace and Final Shielding are the only two traits that have a visual when they activate. It made me concerned as to whether the other traits were acting in a similar manner.

Do Bolt to the Heart, ,Vital Striking, Earth’s Embrace, and Scholar Runes apply to total hp or base hp?

I ask because I have noticed that Earth’s Embrace activates when I am well beyond the 50% marker of my total hp.

Kodiak, while I do not agree with Aether’s attitude, he (or she) has a point.

In pve, any build (or most builds) are possible because the stats on armor, accessories, and equipment makes up the difference. So, while you’ve found a build that works in that environment, I’m afraid it is nothing to be proud of or boast about.

PvE is an environment where the skill floor is set really low. And really, that says more about the content than it does the players.

Romek.4201:

Ele have most combofields available and all classes can do some fields

Actually, Engineers have the most combo fields available

MarkPhilips.5169:

Basically i think combo fields should be a great way to promote a better team play. I think Anet should improve combo fields in the game because is a great idea but now more combo fields are useless or not much effective.

eg. It would be nice if the combo fields made ??by 2 or more teammates were more powerful than make by one player.

It might be that the combo fields are not something to be depended on during the course of a fight—you can go through a whole fight without using a combo field and still win. This is most likely due to each profession becoming more and more self-reliant with the needed heals, boon access, and defense mechanics (stealth, distortion, blocks, evades) already built into the class utilities and weapons. Combos from what the OP is saying, and from my own experience, combos don’t have the biggest impact in combat.

I’m game. Though, my guild requires representation.

Granted, I wouldnt call this idea horrible, but I do see where Isaac is coming from.

This would definitely slow down the pace of the conquest game, but possibly too much.

How would you remedy such a situation?

Airwolf, having more health wont solve the problem of being able to defend said health. Guardians have the same base health, but it feels like they have more because of their armor and upkeep of aegis and protection.

Ehecatl.9172:

Asurmir.7956:

Sunspot and flame barriers effects could be combined.

Something like Sunfire cape from League of Legends

Damage every second to enemies within a certain range. The numbers would need tweaking, as would the range (needs to be effective for all weapons). Doesn’t scale with power, and acts much like a condition where it bypasses armor. That way it will encourage the elementalist to stay in fire attunement for a lengthier time.

That one would be pretty interesting. If not to replace Sun Spot itself certainly to replace Flame Barrier. If we’re traiting for heavy fire we generally want to AVOID being hit. But a constant, low key damage to nearby enemies would do well for spvp where we have to stand on a point anyway.

… Though I can see it bugging like all Hell considering anet’s track record with traits. Remember when switching to air struck non-aggressive creatures or creatures we weren’t fighting? I’m imagining that on an AoE scale. lol

Anet and bugs, an issue for another day.

My concern would be for how it would help staff play. I’ve thought of it as a gradual increase on the DOT is opponents get closer—like getting too close to the sun.

Ehecatl.9172:

Projectile Reflect would be extremely powerful for a 15 point minor trait on any profession. 2 seconds of it every 10-15 seconds…

Though I wouldn’t dismiss it outright as a 25 point minor trait. Or maybe a Master level major trait. Even then it might be a bit overpowered.

Endurance drain… Seems a little out of place for Fire line. Thematically speaking it feels more like an Earth thing.

Asurmir: We’re gonna have to agree to disagree here. A minor trait shouldn’t heavily influence how the profession is played because if you want to invest in that line it isn’t optional. What if I wanted a 20 point trait but didn’t want to suddenly turn into a stealth profession? I could just ignore the fields, but then I wouldn’t be using my profession to it’s limits. If we do get smoke fields, it should be a major trait that you have to actively choose to get. That’s all I’m saying.

You realize that you do this already, right? Whether you use the fury proc from the 5 pt minor in arcana or not is completely up to you and your play-style. Many would argue that is one of the necessities that makes arcana so good, despite it only giving fury for 2 seconds.

It would be no different from the 15 pts in water, or in air. Both encourage swapping to those attunements more frequently.

I get what you are saying, but you’re not getting what I’m after. I would rather the profession have more options, especially in the case of survival, because we are limited in this field.

Sunspot and flame barriers effects could be combined.

Something like Sunfire cape from League of Legends

Damage every second to enemies within a certain range. The numbers would need tweaking, as would the range (needs to be effective for all weapons). Doesn’t scale with power, and acts much like a condition where it bypasses armor. That way it will encourage the elementalist to stay in fire attunement for a lengthier time.

Ehecatl.9172:

Asurmir.7956:

Ehecatl.9172:

A smoke field would actually be useful, but also very, very strong for a 15 point minor trait. Or at least potentially so. At the very least it’d considerably alter how the elementalist is played.

As it should. A smoke field would not be that strong of a trait considering that our attunement cd for fire can only go down to 9.25 seconds. And the field doesnt need to last long (2 or 3 seconds) for it to be useful in combat.

It shouldn’t change the way you play the profession. It’s a low tier minor trait. If it were a selected trait or an upper tier minor trait you’d have a point.

Your logic about the placement of the trait ‘not affecting how you play’ makes no sense. If the trait doesn’t change how you play the profession, then it is like it was never implemented. A wasted 5 pts on a trait that does nothing. Which is what we already have.

Ehecatl.9172:

A smoke field would actually be useful, but also very, very strong for a 15 point minor trait. Or at least potentially so. At the very least it’d considerably alter how the elementalist is played.

As it should. A smoke field would not be that strong of a trait considering that our attunement cd for fire can only go down to 9.25 seconds. And the field doesnt need to last long (2 or 3 seconds) for it to be useful in combat.

You should be able to put 15 points into any trait line and see a noticeable difference. It is meant to be game changing. Else the game gets stagnant, more so than it already has.

Look, the position of the trait means little to nothing when you actually look at all professions trait lines.

Example-

Elementalist: Major trait in Arcana- Renewing Stamina
Mesmer: Minor trait in Dueling- Critical Infusion
Guardian: Minor trait in Honor- Vigorous Precision

If anything, the minor traits are to be just as valuable, just as potent and worthy of 5 trait points like the major traits.

I understand that a buff to might sharing sounds good to you; but I have to disagree with any addition like that.

Especially since you already go 20 points into arcana, more might stacking in fire would be more redundant and wouldn’t save the class anymore than it does now.

As far as supporting goes—the best support comes from a teammate that can kill fast and keep himself alive while doing it.

I can’t imagine them fitting a smoke field on fire though. That would definitely help in defying our opponents.

emikochan.8504:

Oh well, we’ll see. But in the last sotg anet said that the new high speed boots were intentional due to the large elixir R nerf.

They want eles to be middle of the road for mobility, not as slow as necros, not as fast as thief. Our active defence is our heals and constant vigor, with energy sigil it’s a million dodges. Though I think the way we are stuck in arcane/water is an issue (and one Anet wants to solve)

I’m pretty confident for the future. nerfing rtl in non-critter environments isn’t that bad.

Our heals and vigors are traited defense (basically passive defenses we have little control over), not active defense (defensive skills ingrained into our attunement mechanic or weapons). It wouldn’t be so bad to have traited defenses if these defenses were present in each trait line.

This is quite the problem because other professions can trait for vigor, have the necessary healing, and put in an energy sigil for the same amount of dodges. And they still have defensive mechanics to fall back on in the meantime.

Turbo Whale.1738:

Mek.2947:

Maybe it’s perspective. I certainly wanted to play my ele because I like the fact that it is a class that relies on synergy on multiple ability combinations rather than hitting 2,2,2,2,2,2,2 stealth, 2,2,2,2,2 like a thief. Definitely not bored playing an ele. Just get frustrated with the little reward you get from playing it well.

I really think you are just a terrible player which explains why you even mention HS spam and it also explains why you get little reward. Because you don’t play it well. Also I’ve noticed that a lot of elementalists (not all but a nice chunk) seem to think in their minds that they are superior to all other players because they have to click more buttons. Kinda funny really.

A good chunk of the elementalist communist plays other professions and can compare their efforts between classes. It has nothing to do with feeling superior to other players, and everything to do with the sense that something is off with the profession.

Winds.3087:

Asurmir.7956:

You show me the pvp proof, and I will jump ship.

It was like this, I still can’t accept screwed mesmer’s best melee defense in last patch. :c

Are you saying that mesmer can no longer be a force within the 600 range? Because, if you are, then I’m afraid that you cannot help me.

Winds.3087:

I don’t get why anet thinks ele shouldn’t be mobile. Why did they add easy 100% swiftness uptime, various blinks and dashes then?

Obviously, I was wrong, since the best use of a mesmer is staying out of range whilst clones do the damage.

Melee mesmer does way more damage, besides, full ranged is for wuss.

You show me the pvp proof, and I will jump ship.

I’m not the only one here that envisioned being a mage that preferred close-combat, am I? Surely, others of you enjoyed the power and control over your character in games like SKYRIM, right?

I loved GW1. I enjoyed it immensely. So, when GW2 was announced way back when, of course I was ecstatic.

I was looking for a melee mage, because I grew tired of sitting on the back lines. At first, I thought it was going to be the mesmer, and it seemed like the skills of the sword favored such a play-style. Obviously, I was wrong, since the best use of a mesmer is staying out of range whilst clones do the damage.

I realized early, that Necros are just not speedy enough to keep up. So, I went to Ele. And I fell in love with d/d. Then came the nerfs; the denial that Anet didn’t know what they were doing; then more nerfs; and finally a loss of hope.

I don’t want to play any other archetype other than a mage. And I don’t want to rely on AI to do my dirty work. I just want to be able to have fights where when I win:

1. I didn’t need my teammate to come turn a 1v1 into a 2v1
2. I didn’t win by sheer dumb luck (I’ve gotten to the point where if someone loses to an ele, then I question their skill level.)

Is that too much to ask?

I just want balance: Defenses I can actually rely on (healing is a poor defense that must be traited for). And decent traits options in all trait lines.

Centaur’s were right, my will may be broken.

/Soapbox

RTL is anymore reliable of an escape skill than Rush.

Yes, Rush is affected by cripple and chill, but it is also affected by swiftness. And, when traited, can break through immobilize.

RTL is unaffected by swiftness, cripple, and chill. However, immobilize can stop it dead in its tracks.

I’d rather have Rush. At least I am still moving. And since on a greatsword with another movement ability and a short cooldown, I’m positive that I can get away.

@Benji

The pre-nerf D/D 0/10/0/30/30 bunker Ele with a clerics amulet and boon duration runes COULD NOT DO IT ALL.

The perception was that the Ele could do it all. The reality was that build did and STILL DOES hit for squat. The build succeeded at outlasting the opponent whilst hitting like a downy pillow. Even then, they still nerfed the WRONG parts of that god-forsaken build.

The so called problems with that build?
Bountiful Power (2% damage per boon)
Cleansing Water (cleanse on regen)
Ether + Mist Form

RTL was not the problem. Why? Because if an Ele left the point to heal, he was essentially doing the same thing as a stealthed thief: leaving the point uncontested

People complained that they couldn’t kill the bunker Ele. And they were right. The kitten build was focused around playing defensive and waiting for teammates. Even other Eles hated the build because you didn’t actually do damage.

If they had really wanted to squash that build, then they should have hit Bountiful Power sooner. That’s where the so called “great damage” was coming from.

The bunker build still exists. And it still heals and all that jazz. It also still hits for nothing.

As you’ve said, yes, it can happen in Zerg vs Zerg. Also, as you’ve said, if you’ve been under fire long enough to receive 25 stacks, then you are probably dead anyway.

However, just because bleeds seem more potent in Zerg vs Zerg, doesn’t mean that it wins in damage on the regular. This is mainly because not all combat consists of zergs duking it out for a keep.

Confusion and Bleeds work best when they can be stacked to the cap; this is best accomplished when around others who can cast the same condition on the same target.

Burns and Poisons work best against single targets and small groups. Where you can’t always rely on someone else to keep the stacks up.

You are using two extremes to validate your point, but it doesn’t work in a pvp scenario. If anyone allows you to get 25 stacks of any condition on them, then they must have AFK’d.

That being said, as Shar stated, it takes 7-8 stacks of bleed for there to be any noticeable between burning and bleeding.

Yes, at some point bleed stacks will surpass burning in damage—provided that you are able to stack a considerable number of them. That is, however, a very unlikely situation for an elementalist. That is more likely to happen for other professions ( like a bleed thief).

Bah! Scholar > Ogre > Divinity.

If you are building your d/d to have enough healing power and toughness, then you will stay above 90% more often than not.