Guild Wars 2

pot.6805:

Really curious to see who has the bigger overnight presence between these 3 servers.

Its not SBI, sadly we never ever have the bigger presence except for maybe from 5-7 PST. So frustrating that we constantly lose simply because we have 1/2 to 1/3 the numbers of SoR or TC and WvW comes down to who has the bigger thoughtless zerg.

But of course nerfing AoE will address this /facepalm

Anyway I think we’ll do okay in T4 or T5

brunohstein.9038:

frans.8092:

brunohstein.9038:

…The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible …

Thief is primarily melee and you want stealth to break when they come into melee range?

You talk like you stay in stealth while in melee combat and it is not true. While playing D/D, for example, you will enter stealth to land a backstab and not much else. After that you will have your debuff.

And I don’t think stealth should break. You would stay in stealth all the time, semi-appearing just when you get that close to the opponent. Dodge back and you are invisible again. Also, the enemy would only partially see you, like your allies can do (https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27729/gw635.jpg).

I don’t think it would break any build a thief can use.

No offense but this is a terrible idea that would make things WORSE than they are now (and they’re already gamebreakingly bad). In a place as frantic as sPvP and WvW this would enable thieves to have constant stealth unless someone has time to look around, notice the slight shimmer of a thief out of stealth and respond accordingly, and how often does that happen. This would devolve into thieves waiting until a player is occupied, attacking them then simply running away knowing they’d auto-stealth beyond a certain range, rinse and repeat until OP.

Yea no, HELL no. I like the enthusiasm in posting this but it’s a bad idea.

As others have said thieves “seem” to suck at higher level fractals because thieves like to run squishy glass cannon builds without a thought to the stats EVERY class needs to survive.

Laiboch.4380:

Atticus.7194:

Personally I think they should nerf thieves to kitten until culling is fixed but not for the reason you think. From experience thieves tend to be rather… vocal, so if the collective whole of thieves suddenly feel the awful pain of their class suffering they’ll raise one hell of a cry and maybe MAYBE convince the development team to get around to addressing culling with some semblance of urgency (come on, it does seem like this has been going on a LONG time and it is a game breaking (in WvW at least) issue)

Laiboch.4380:

Better sustained damage and burst on par with warriors and most other burst damage classes: Issue resolved

Why does everyone use warriors as the baseline for massive DPS, they’re not the highest DPS class in either burst or sustained, I don’t get it.

I really could argue the point that warriors are the highest burst damage class in the game, and close to the highest sustained damage as well. That is unless you can show me any other class that can hit multiple targets for close to 28K damage in under 4 seconds. In their “Glass Cannon” build a warrior can do upwards of 18K with a SINGLE ATTACK both in melee and at the same range as a rangers long bow to boot, and still has better damage mitigation, survival and 10K more HP than a glass cannon Thief. If Warriors are “Balanced” where they are at then thieves are clearly not even close to balanced.

People do not seem capable of understanding how the class works. What a Thief has to sacrifice to do the same thing many other classes can do with out having to sacrifice anything at all, but still not do it nearly as well.

Thieves are quickly becoming relegated to obscurity and are even flat out refused groups in some Dungeons because they die to easy and cannot compete with the damage of many other classes. Put them side by side with most other classes and you see:

A class with with 6 to 10K less hit points than any other classes “Glass Cannon”. Even when they are not running a glass cannon build……

A class that does less damage regardless of build.

A class that has less survivability, No invulnerability skill, One condition removal skill that takes 3 seconds to kick in only if the trait is taken. Which usually means you are dead any way.

Has to sacrifice almost all of its below par melee damage to deal below par condition damage.

And has had so many of its abilities nerfed that players are forced to play gimmick builds like C&D or glass cannon spam builds in order to have any value or success in WvW or Spvp.

Thieves have many abilities that cost 4-5 initiative that do LESS DAMAGE than their auto attack… Pistol whip is an excellent example of this. Death blossom deals less damage and 1/4 the bleed duration/damage than a warriors auto attack with a long sword. Yes a warrior does more melee and bleed damage with their auto attack than a thief using 5 initiative skill.

No other class in the game is required to sacrifice as much to accomplish less.

Not even going to go into all the specifics of how you’re mistaken here but I will say that you’re opinion of warrior DPS is way off from anything resembling the truth and I do admire how you deliberately avoided mentioning any of a thieves strengths in your attempt to make them look maligned and looked down upon (which they’re not), that was… impressive.

Also while I can agree that thieves could use some love in PvE what really concerns me is their massively lopsided abilities in WvW and that is what I would really REALLY like addressed (it’s making me avoid this game like the plague, I hate getting taken out by a crappy thief just because he found me at an inopportune time knowing that I have no recourse against him)

Daecollo.9578:

Columba.9730:

Highest dps, best mobility and permastealth. Something needs to give.

Highest DPS? that would be warrior.

Highest Mobility, that would be warrior.

Permastealth? A liability to your server or team.

Uh, no way… not even close to sort of kinda true.

Highest burst? Thieves (warriors don’t even have the highest sustained damage anymore)

Highest Mobility? Thieves

Most “Oh kitten” buttons? Thieves

Best class ability? Thieves

Right on though, keep trying to play the martyr and convince everyone that this 39 page thread that exists on the thieves forum alone is completely unjustified and unfounded.

Faeyd.5094:

jan.9745:

Since leveling to 80 is easy and people ask what will you do if you get the higher level., this idea will help., example all players will start on weak level server to go to the next lvl they need to do some task for example they need to kill 100 different players in WvsW w/out dying., to go to the next lvl., for last lvl of server they need to kill 500 player w/out dying and specially there’s a reward for mid level you can farm 2x you farm on weak server + title rank so that people saw and know you you are in different lvl when you go back on normal world., for 3rd level of server it needs 2x you farm on a mid server + rank + statue on lion arch but only 3 statue will be stand and those statue will be rank from bronze silver to gold., only 3 best people need to have statue., so that people will fight for the statue., its like hey i will do my best to have the statue. Looks like more thrilling right? And maybe they can put additional task so that it takes a long time to get the (professional server and the rank and the statue)

It’s actually a nice idea but I expect Anet devs already feel they have this… it’s the PvP system, which is tiered and graded. You can just grind it even if you lose all your sPvP bouts but that is a very poor definition of fun and if folks can’t hack it there they don’t progress in it any further and just do WvW instead.

Where I am in PvP at the moment means every single fight is hard whether I play thief, ranger, mesmer, Ele, etc. It’s because the folks at that level have been through the same baptism of PvP that I have. And the only glass canons I see are newly rolled thieves or warriors who don’t understand why they are dying so badly in there because they read the forums and were told they should be overpowered.

I hate to say it but this is actually TERRIBLE idea; first of all this game doesn’t need another grind which is exactly what this would amount to (this is straight out of a Korean MMO mentality and doesn’t work), 2nd of all the last thing we need to do is segregate the player population into ranks so you front load encounters between servers, 3rd of all your constant references to “professional” players doesn’t mean what you think it means, under your system “professional” players would amount to individuals who can devote huge amounts of time to grinding their way into higher tiers and once again that is not what this game is supposed to be about.

Not trying to be a jerk here and I know this games core concepts have already been horribly kittenized but the last thing GW2 needs is to be pushed even farther down the slope with an idea like this.

Onionknight.7186:

Really, Warriors getting up a few times from the downed state in a fight when surrounded by friends bug me a lot more than princes and princesses Stabbity doing stab stab kill kill.

Lets not exaggerate warriors can “get up” when downed once and only once unless they are allowed to heal then they go back down in what 6 seconds? 8 sec? Sounds super hard to simply move away and let them die again, so lets not exaggerate about that one.

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

1.) What you mean by being “in trouble” against a tanky warrior, guardian, necro or ranger is not what most of think of. You’re “in trouble” means that you can’t just pop out and burst him down, however you’re not actually worried about getting killed by these players. For the rest of us that aren’t thieves and don’t have a free get out of jail card when we go up against a character that we can’t kill we have to worry about dying ourselves. So please be realistic and stop trying to trivialize what your class can do and be aware of what the rest of us CAN’T do (like simply vanish if we’re in trouble).

2.) So tell me what hard counter does a mesmer or elementalist have against a stealth specced thief again? Sure they do have certain abilities that help them survive against thieves but what do they have that can hard counter a thieves stealth? Oh that’s right, nothing just like the rest of us. See the problem here? Almost every other class with powerful skills doesn’t have a 31 page thread complaining about them because all those abilities have ways to be addressed, stealth however… doesn’t. So yea, either stealth needs to be made so it’s used MUCH more sparingly (as in you have to think when and how it’s going to be used for a tactical advantage rather than just incorporating into your attack rotation mindlessly) or it needs to be completely redesigned so there is some way for all classes to directly counter it (means of detection, visual indicators of stealth, common ways of breaking it ect ect).

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nate Rush, bless his soul, has already summed up my general opinion. I don’t necessarily want a “nerf”, per se, but I want Stealth Thieves to have to do a modicum of work to get their results. When a class mechanic has such high reward for basically no risk, it makes me sad.

I want counter-play. That’s all. When there’s counter-play mechanics involved in a fight, the fight is infinitely more fun. Fighting other good Warriors is amazingly enjoyable. The act of fighting a Guardian is also highly enjoyable. Fighting Mesmers if often extremely enjoyable. D/D Elementalists are an intense fight, even if I think their ability to regen and keep Prot up is a little on the lame side. I haven’t fought as many Rangers/Engis, but they can both be enjoyable as well.

Fighting a Thief is either the easiest thing in the world, or impossible. The ability to spam stealth would be fine if, and only if, the game were designed around detected and revealing stealthed enemies. It isn’t. There’s no reveal mechanic that I know of or have. There’s no detection mechanic besides randomly throwing abilities around and just hoping they hit. Counter-play is a complete guessing game with almost no reward.

At the end of the day, they’re simply frustrating to the point of being nonsensical to fight when they spam stealth. As someone else mentioned, it’s only fun for the Thief, really. Or other Thieves, from what I’ve heard. I want to respect a Thief that I fight because of intelligent use of mobility and counter-play. I don’t want to feel no respect whatsoever for Thieves because of a mechanic that just feels abused.

If a Thief goes stealth in front of me, and I anticipate his direction and Earthshaker on top of him, I want some sign other than losing Adrenaline that I landed the hit. If I guess properly and counter-play the stealth, what’s my reward? Knowing I did some damage that will be shrugged off because there’s no strong follow-up. Even if I land it, and know I land it, I have no idea if the Thief is within range of a Staggering Blow, or where to aim a subsequent Hammer Shock or Backbreaker. Why shouldn’t I be rewarded for appropriately countering the stealth escape with an anticipatory attack? Why shouldn’t the Thief be punished for stealthing directly in front of enemies instead of just being able to frolick around even if damaged?

I want to see Thieves dancing through a fight, bouncing from enemy to enemy or appearing, harassing, drawing attention, and then bounding away. I want to say kitten that was a clever use of stealth" instead of “Well, he stealthed for the 5th time using (Shadow Refuge OR Hide in Shadows OR Steal -> CnD OR just Stealing (traited) OR Blinding Powder OR hitting 25% health (5 point minor, traited) OR Leap Finisher in a Smoke Field (both available to the Thief)), I guess that’s nice. I’ll just keep using abilities into the air and running in directions praying I’m correct.”

If it takes buffing other areas, then good. Go for it. Buff Thieves, make their other weapons viable, but please redesign Stealth so it isn’t completely unenjoyable for everyone except the Thief. Aegis has counter-play, and rewards good timing. Blind has counter-play, and rewards good timing. Shattering can be spotted and dodged, as can Burst abilities. Eles have all sorts of visual cues for when you need to counter-play. Ranger pets can even involve counter-play.

So please. Let me have some semblance of rewarding counter-play against a Thief.

Well said, can’t agree more just having some modicum of a chance to beat a thief without having to rely on random chance (because once again stealth has no hard counter… which designer thought that was a good idea?) would be amazing. As Cogbyrn said stealth should be something thieves use to pull off a quick or clever move in specific situations not as an automatic means to avoid death, perform stealth finishers (that’s another thing that needs to be outright removed), or to annoy and harass whole groups knowing there is no direct way to counter it.

Vax Tezhme.7128:

The character of Trahearne never bothered me that much, but I think that’s because I played a Sylvari first, so I had a general feel for him by the time any of my characters made it to the later story missions. I had the basic context of Trahearne. But I agree, anyone who hadn’t come that way would be blindsided by his inclusion.

There are several things throughout the personal stories that hint that Trahearne has been an adventurer for a while and built up a lot of goodwill and respect. The heads of the Orders treat him like he’s already a well-known hero, he has this Largos who owes him, etc. Yet we as players never really see anything about that. If there was some time put into showing him in that light, that would go a long way. Even just side dialog as you go through missions (“Hey is that Trahearne?” “Yeah, he saved my whole village once from a bunch of Grawl – he convinced them that this bone minion he summoned was their new god.” etc) would have gone a long way. I get this feeling that Trahearne has this really interesting history, but we’ve never seen it.

I hate to disagree but I have to, I just played through the personal story through Claw island as a sylvari and I still feel like shoving Trahearne into a woodchipper every time he comes on screen. His back story consists of “Awww man, you spent all this time studying and trying to figure out how to accomplish your wylde hunt of restoring Orr and you’re still no closer to your goal, that sucks I totally I feel bad for you”. Like this justifies him just waltzing into your personal story taking over everything and telling you what to do? Come on, that’s his problem not yours.

It’s even worse playing as a Charr too, you’re hole attitude prior Trahearne deciding to be Neo says that your character would have never stood by and let some random scholar and untested commander take control of all 3 orders (that’s just not how Charr logic works, you have to fight and earn your command). Hell if he even tried the PC would have reduced him to kindling and picked his teeth with the remains (he’ll that’s your 2nd personal story mission, to get rid of an unworthy leader) so why he just rolls over for Trahearne and asks for a belly rub is beyond me.

jan.9745:

Lol., stop this the truth are nobody can kill thief if the player are pro! The only thing you can kill thief if the player who use it is noob, weak or greedy! The percentage of surving in combat by class playable by a pro player., lowest rate is the ranger w/60% the engineer 65%, necro 66%, warrior 70%, mesmer 80% or 100% if use portal, guardian 91%., elementalist 98% thief 50% if noob player but 100% if pro.,

Sorry sir but I believe your mistaken, rangers actually survive 59.9999998126%, get your facts right >_>

Honestly though I’m trying to cut you some leeway but your constant references to “noob” or “pro” players and completely nonsensical survival percentages is making it hard not to point how crazy your post is.

AlBundy.7851:

Glad to see the thief forum is carrying on the tradition of posting any warrior glass cannon video to justify any issue they might have.

Hey showing 3 sec clips of super lucky crits in slow motion while a glass cannon warrior has frenzy up is an accurate depiction of ALL THE TIME.

Clearly.

The difference is if that crappy warrior video didn’t constantly cut away constantly you’d notice that the warrior is getting killed… a lot because he unlike a thief can’t just pop stealth and run away if their burst attempt doesn’t work. In fact every other class BUT thief has to actually deal with the repercussions trying to get quick kills like this… except thieves.

Glass cannon builds mean all or nothing to every other class but to thieves it’s “all or just pop stealth and come back later” there is the problem. No one class should have complete control over when combat starts and ends like a thief currently does.

Korrtz.3510:

oellph.9450:

My first 80 was a thief but I currently spend most of my time playing my 80 Guardian and I have to say I’ve seen the problem from the other side. Many times our group was getting harassed by a lone thief who was just uncatchable. He wasn’t able to kill anyone but it was frustrating not being able to lay some consistent damage down before he disappeared again.

I really want to see the thief be a viable class which isn’t nerfed to obscurity but something needs changing, if only culling.

Wait, so in WvW you are being harassed, not killed, by a lone thief and want to nerf the class so a group to which the thief poses no real threat, has an easier time catching and killing? Do I have that right? It’s no longer about balance, it’s about the annoyance factor? If that is the case then I for one have a laundry list of things classes do that I think are annoying and want nerfed too.

The thief is supposed to be a slippery class, otherwise the class wouldn’t be called thief. The name implies some sort of getting away with it, thieves that get caught all the time are called convicts.

Lets don’t bring Roleplaying generalizations into this please, just because a thief is called a thief doesn’t mean he should be able to break into your characters bank and steal your stuff?

Also I think the point that was being made is that no other class has so much control over when they enter and leave combat as a thief and that alone is fairly game breaking. Stealth and culling allow a thief to constantly attack and harass without ever having to think about the consequences of entering combat like every single other class in the game, that’s the problem. Combat should never be so one sided that one class has access to a skill that doesn’t have a hard counter, and in an open world a thief simply trying to escape with stealth is almost impossible to stop (yea yea, AoE… the likelihood that catches them is extraordinarily low).

Enough with thieves being able to enter and leave combat at their leisure, by their choice, if they enter combat with someone then they need to go through the same arduous process of leaving it as every other class, kill, run away (not stealth away) or die.

Marduh.4603:

Rayya.2591:

the skill is called 100 blades – it has 3.25 seconds cast time and is imobile, Moreever is casted on an npc with vulnerability up. Warrior has 23 sacks of might , arround 4300-4500 p attack. In order to cast 100 B on an player at full potential , you must find an player without condition removal , stunbreaker , invulnerability / mobility skills. and 2 guardians to buff you with might ^^. good luck on that
compared with backstab , 0.25 cast time -12.000 you can cast also 5 heartseekers in that time and 3 normal hits ^^ , and move meantime.
I do not complain about thief, but do not make ridiculous comparations

Before using stunbreak you get 3-4 Shot by 6-8k(with Frenzy) then instantly Whirlwind Attack is 6k.
1 sec – thief dead from AOE

This post made me dumber by reading it. Frenzy is quickness, it makes ANY class seem OP in conjunction with it not just warriors so stop trying to single our warriors, thieves themselves would be just as redic with it.

Also if you’re getting hit with 6-8k white non crit damage and 6k WW then you’re dealing with an extreme glass cannon who is taking double damage so feel free to blow on that warrior and I assure you he will die.

PopeUrban.2578:

What does this have to do with Wintersday?

Nothing, it’s in the wrong kitten board also this has been suggested 12,000,000 times before

FourTwenty.4268:

Atticus.7194:

then please don’t be the guy who thinks that telling everyone they need to l2p will hide the fact that there is an actual reason people are complaining about something no matter what their supposed skill level is.

“You’re prius got stuck accelerating no matter what you did? Noob l2drive and you wouldn’t have that problem!”

I agree, there is a reason people are complaining. they’re getting stomped by people that play the game better than they do and they can’t take it. they can’t face the fact that they suck at a game they spent 60+ dollars and potentially hundreds of hours of their time playing.

Go in the Warrior forums, there’s complaints that they’re OP. Go in the Elementalist forums there’s complaints that they’re OP.

Guess what? This game gives an advantage to people who know how to play their class, know how to counter their opponents, and have faster twitch skills. And it will happen no matter what class they play /thread

Okay.

So I went over to the warrior and elementalist forums and I couldn’t seem to find a 24 page thread on either one of those started by a mod for the specific purpose of collecting all the complaints about the class in one location. But I guess that’s all just baseless QQers who need “faster twitch skills” amirite?

Oh and just because you type /thread doesn’t mean the thread is over it just means you got bored or lazy or both and left to maintain a sense of deluded superiority. So once again, don’t be that guy

pssst, you know you can kite people in the game right? you know you cant facetank everyone and mash 1, 2, 3, 4 in order to win right?

there’s dozens and dozens of tips on how to counter each and every class in the game. it’s not my fault, or the developers fault that you refuse to learn how to counter the mechanic

Can you please tell us all what some of these counters are? Please, I’d love to know what we’re all doing wrong, so please come down off your mountain and share your divine knowledge oh wise one with us unenlightened masses

FourTwenty.4268:

Atticus.7194:

Please don’t be that guy… don’t be the guy that tells us all we just need to l2p and that since you are apparently Jesus and have no problem killing thieves with a butter knife and turning water to wine we are all doing something wrong. No really believes you’re that amazing (especially when you just mention you CAN counter thieves on any profession at any time under any circumstances and not HOW you accomplish this) and even if you were no one likes that guy so just stop…

Like I said before thieves are hated because they can be incredibly cheesy, have too much control in combat and the margin for error in either getting killed or getting A kill to a relatively low skill thief is way WAY higher than any other class, so yea people have issue with thieves and rightfully so.

Also people don’t like that they have the best resource system, the highest burst, the easiest combos, the most oh kitten buttons and the most mobility in the game and they like to pretend they’re some sort of martyr because other players call for them to lose some of that and have to come down to earth with the rest of us.

then please dont be the guy that cries on the forums because you got beat 1v1 in the game.

then please don’t be the guy who thinks that telling everyone they need to l2p will hide the fact that there is an actual reason people are complaining about something no matter what their supposed skill level is.

“You’re prius got stuck accelerating no matter what you did? Noob l2drive and you wouldn’t have that problem!”

Archonis.7249:

Mister Mustard.7203:

Archonis.7249:

People hate thieves because they don’t want to have to think to hard when fighting them. They are only concerned with how their profession performs. [] Here in lies the problem, people don’t want to actually learn how to deal with a thief. Instead it is easier to complain about them.

Archonis.7249:

I am simply astonished at how many people never dodge or read their opponent.

Some professions are more forgiving with it, because they have innately more health and armor. As a Thief, you have the lowest and you have to learn how to read your opponent. Otherwise Thieves will come into the forums crying about how OP Warriors etc are because you got one shot with full endurance.

Again with this argument.

All the fast-twitch, super skilled, genius ninjas who play blindfolded in yoga positions and anticipate your every move, ALL ROLLED THIEF. Meanwhile, every other class is populated by the mouth-breathing idiots of the general populous. AMAZING HOW THAT HAPPENED, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES??!?

I play Warrior, Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger too. Guess what. I have no issues against Thieves or any other professions, so your point is stillborn.

I anticipate, dodge and use my utilities and elite. I would suggest that others do the same.

Please don’t be that guy… don’t be the guy that tells us all we just need to l2p and that since you are apparently Jesus and have no problem killing thieves with a butter knife and turning water to wine we are all doing something wrong. No really believes you’re that amazing (especially when you just mention you CAN counter thieves on any profession at any time under any circumstances and not HOW you accomplish this) and even if you were no one likes that guy so just stop…

Like I said before thieves are hated because they can be incredibly cheesy, have too much control in combat and the margin for error in either getting killed or getting a kill to a relatively low skill thief is way WAY higher than any other class, so yea people have issue with thieves and rightfully so.

Also people don’t like that they have the best resource system, the highest burst, the easiest combos, the most oh kitten buttons and the most mobility in the game and they like to pretend they’re some sort of martyr because people have a problem with them having all of that and a bar of soap too.

Thieves are hated because generally they’re played in very cheesy, spamable, annoying ways (pop some cooldowns and spam one or 2 moves as fast as you can to do as much as you can then either vanish and wait for CD’s again if alive or teabag corpse if dead). Thieves like to think they play their class like “ninjas” but actually they play them more like kids ding-dong ditching your house over and over again.

In other words thieves people are just sick of one class having the best resource system in the game, the highest burst, the most mobility and the most “oh kitten” buttons in the game and constantly playing the martyr card and acting victimized because people (rightfully so) have issue with this.

Korrtz.3510:

Bastionhawk.7120:

Hyper-defensive as you are, I still got a nice laugh out of your severity. You take yourself and this class too seriously. Facts are facts. The class needs tweaking.

It’s not being hypersensitive bub, you nerfers are the one whining and moaning about “imbalance” and crying like 5 year old girls with skinned knees. I’m getting a little tired of this entitlement attitude players have, because its blatantly obvious you are plain lazy.

Myself, I see a situation and get owned a few times while adjusting my playstyle and end up being a better player because of it. I engage in active critical thinking, something which I am guessing you read as too many big words put together. Each class has its pros and cons, as a thief I enjoy mobility and dps yes, but the mesmer is regarded as the best 1v1 class in the game. Ele’s can knock out siege in a way nobody else can, hunters have meatshields, Necros can lay waste to a confined zerg pretty easily, mesmer mobility is highlighted in the EB JP, etc etc. Getting the picture Champ? Sorry if you think losing means the other guy is OP’d, ever stop to think this might not be your game if you can’t sack up and improve?

Sorry but much of the supposed imbalances with elementalists, hunters, necros and mesmers isn’t a fair comparison at all to thieves current abilities (in fact most of what you describe is either an inconvenience or just plain untrue). So yea while many of us can and do apart to thieves when we encounter them that in no way means that we’re all crazy and paranoid when we complain about thieves, there is reason behind the QQ. Right now thieves have the highest damage in the game, the most mobility, the most “oh kitten” buttons and some of the some extraordinary group utilities, so all this together and thieves are kind of unbalanced.

I admit I play a warrior and while I can take most thieves it’s only if the circumstances are right and the fact is there is far too small a margin of error when dealing with them. It all comes down to staying spot on them to mitigate as many of their abilities as possible and making sure they can’t use their superior mobility however if you mess up at all, you end up either dead or frustrated because they’re able to escape from seemingly inescapable situations. All of this is just because too many of their abilities are far to exploitable/spammable with initiative and work far too well together, so my suggestion to fix thieves is to slightly lengthen the duration of their stealth but dramatically reduce it’s availability by removing it from many skills to make stealth something that comes down to a deliberate choice rather than a throw away button click. Also as others have said add diminishing returns to abilities if they’re spammed over and over to encourage thieves to actually have to play to win rather than just try to see how many times they can drop 1 or 2 skills before they need to vanish and try again.

All in all, while it would be great if just l2p was the answer to thieves but it’s not, they are unbalanced and ArenaNet NEEDS to listen to feedback and do what they’ve been so reluctant to do these last few months and take a very serious look at thieves in spvp and wvw and work on a fix from the ground up, I know personally seeing this issue unaddressed and feeling the consequences of this really makes me wonder if I even want to bother with this game in the future.

xman.4576:

Why weren’t Warriors nerfed?

Because they don’t need nerfs.

End of Discussion.

I have to agree, Warriors actually kinda okay where they are now, they’re viable but they’re not overpowered. In fact pretty much all of their abilities have hard counters so most classes shouldn’t be left with “no recourse” when fighting a warrior.

Also for anyone complaining about HB or Eviscerate well, you’re doing something wrong if you have problems with those. HB roots the warrior with a 4 second cast time so ya know… move out of the way if that happens, eviscerate is a very short gap closer so if you’re standing close enough to be hit by this you’re kinda asking for it.

Same problem in Heart of the Mists, makes Jade Quarry very interesting (and annoying)

Hell how long has everyone been calling for a fix for the stealth rendering bug in WvW and nope despite promises and assurances that still goes unfixed so I am in no way surprised.

Login server is still down in North America =/

I can’t agree more with the OP, the level segregation by this dungeon is already overwhelming, I’m experiencing the same thing right now, chat is filled with people looking for a group but no one seems to be able to form a group because everyone is at different levels and no one wants to take a step back (which is understandable). So once again I think ANet kinda dropped the ball due to a lack of real playtesting.

Did you hear me ArenaNet? You need to let players really test your content and listen to their feedback and you could avoid SOOO many of your mistakes (they become very apparent once actual players get their hands on this stuff)

One time events yea… they’re a bad idea, they really are. As a Developer one of your goals should be trying to allow as many players as possible access to the content you develop and including events that only launch one time only makes sure that there are going to be MANY players who couldn’t make these and feel excluded and disgruntled that they weren’t able to experience the game like other players.

Not only that but (for me personally) if I wanted to have to work a real life schedule around a game I would raid in World of Warcraft… many of us don’t want that and in fact had thought that the ability to just login and play was one of the things GW2 was trying to foster.

routine maintenance my kitten >_<

Anyone still have any working US overflows with the event?

Lordmordane.4067:

yup, it’s up on mine. right at the beginning apparently.

I’d kill for an invite as well

In-Game Name: Wulf Ironfang

Leite.9475:

i have a part open for the purpose of getting people into an overflow with the event running ….. if anyone is interested

Yea, still very much interested in getting an invite

In-game name: Wulf Ironfang

Broken Angel.4956:

Leite.9475:

i have a part open for the purpose of getting people into an overflow with the event running ….. if anyone is interested

Whats your in game name

If you have an overflow with this still running and have room I would very much appreciate an invite to this event

In-Game Name: Wulf Ironfang

Leite.9475:

i have a part open for the purpose of getting people into an overflow with the event running ….. if anyone is interested

Wait really? How would I get to your overflow?

I’m not sure that’s true, while unhappy players are more vocal than sated players who had their fill of this it doesn’t negate the fact that through out the course of the day you have more and more players logging in who would have liked to have been part of this event yet for one reason or another couldn’t and don’t appreciate being left out because they couldn’t schedule their lives around this game (if I wanted to do that I would raid in WoW still).

So let me ask you Hermes what would be so wrong with having this event run on say… a 5 hour or so loop so more people can experience it at some point?

Uh, yea Ive been checking the overflows the this event is done on all of them now

Phase 3 yea… had something unavoidable to do today, got home at 2:15 PST and logged on thinking this event would run for the last day of this event, checked out the mail telling me to go check out the epic finale of this event, got over there and found out this ran one time and one time only, looked in my mail again and saw a big middle finger signed “compliments of ArenaNet”, so its safe to say this has been a bit of a disappointment.

I don’t understand why this event wouldn’t run every few hours for the last day of this like a normal world boss so folks (like myself) that weren’t able to schedule our lives around this can experience this event.

My suggestion for future “One Time Events”… don’t do them.

Content needs to be available for decent window of time to allow as many players as possible to enjoy it so they hopefully get excited about the game, not disappointed they weren’t able to schedule their lives around ArenaNet

Seriously these one time events are such a terrible idea in an MMO that it’s not even funny, ArenaNet should know that one of the goals of any event is to get it out to as many players as possible so that they can enjoy it and hopefully enjoy it and stay excited about the game. However there is nothing worse than logging in and being provided with a mail that tells you to go take part in the epic end of this event and then find out that because you had considerations in your life other than this game that you are out of luck because you missed that one 2-hour time frame in which this was running. It’s like ArenaNet telling you that if you don’t dedicate your life to their time frame to be on when they want you on you are going to miss out, and they’re okay with that.

That is not the mentality a MMO Dev should have and frankly it’s completely at odds with the manifesto (which expect means less than nothing now) that so many were sold on this game by.

Furiousbeard.7602:

JonPeters.5630:

Fast hands only is broken on the very first swap after you turn it on our load a map. After that it works. Fixing that first time bug is extraordinarily difficult, but we think it is worth it to keep the trait.

Keep up the good work Peter!

I appreciate all your team is doing and I hope the players can adjust to the changes or provide insightful comments regarding other changes needed to their class.

:)

Stop, just stop… they’re not really doing “good work” by just saying it’s hard to fix so we’re over fixing this. So yea when some actual issues are addressed Devs can have a pat on the back but I don’t think a congratulations is in order for fixing very minor issues and ignoring everything else.

BTW: Not trying to be a jerk it’s just… some of the balance changes this patch are a bit disappointing in their 1 sidedness

Frvwfr.4307:

aaron.7850:

Mesmer here, I was fully expecting a nerf akin to putting charges to portal, so a maximum of 3 or 5 people can use the portal only.

I agree and totally understand that teleporting a huge zerg instantly from one location to another is game breaking in wvwvw. But all this “nerf” did was make my puzzle jumping a bit harder now.

Revert the cooldown to 60 seconds and put a maximum of 3 or 5 charges on portal use. That will fix its opness in wvwvw and mesmer’s personal use is unchanged.

How is it game-breaking? It takes one intelligent engineer, or guardian with line of warding to make an entire portal useless and to scatter a group trying to use it. If one person can counter it, why is it a problem that one person can create it?

I do understand that having groups of mesmers chaining can be crazy. So maybe my suggestion would be to have a 30s debuff effect on a player after using a portal, so they cannot portal again in that time? That would stop people from charging into a fight, and having a fallback mesmer to just portal out again if the fight gets rough.

Because in the real world “portal bombs” or moving massive zergs through portals doesn’t always happen when and where people are ready to counter it. So yea you can bemoan the loss of this all you want but it is completely balanced to ask for portals to be able to used by a LIMITED number of players.

Why ArenaNet can’t figure out this themselves is beyond me…

So here’s a nice current video for anyone saying that thieves burst isn’t still completely redic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x9o0LJor-HQ#!

You seem to be confusing players with professions. Hi, I am a player. I am not a warrior, nor a thief. I’m a real life person and I play a pretty cool video game. You’ve probably heard of it. In this game, I have a bunch of characters that I play, one of them is in fact a warrior, and another is a thief, among several others as well. But I myself am not the profession my character is. Because I’m not confusing a game with reality or misplacing identities in my perceptions of other people playing this same game. I am not delusional, in this sense, and can perfectly differentiate between the two.

I encourage you to try it. Coming to terms with the fact that you’re not talking to a bunch of thieves will probably help in the clarity of your perceptions too. Things like “thieves didn’t care when warriors got a nerf and now it is your turn, haha!” are complete nonsense when you adopt my perspective… and you can see them for what they really are, gibberish from a confused mind.

And finally, to your rebuttal. If you are not lying or embellishing, then you’re simply just wrong. After a thief backstabs, they get a revealed debuff that prevents reentering stealth for exactly 3 seconds. They would then have to use a skill to reenter stealth to be able to backstab again. So it is not possible, in this game, guild wars 2, for a thief to backstab “constantly” or hit with backstab numerous times in a few seconds…. just isn’t possible in the game for it to happen man.

Any attempt you make to say it is happening will show that you really don’t know what is going on at all in combat vs a thief.

Wow, condescending much?

Well first off your comment about my supposed confusion between a character and the person playing it has no real bearing on my comments and from what I can tell serves to allow you to attempt to belittle me and nothing more so please stop. Just because I use the common vernacular “You might be doing something” or “your ability” instead of saying “your character is able to do something” or “your characters ability” doesn’t invalidate my comments (and frankly it’s really petty).

Also my mention about eviscerate was to hopefully provide some perspective that thieves really aren’t being singled out amongst all other professions by calling for reappraisal of a skill that seems a bit overpowered in conjunction with several other factors like thieves extreme mobility/survivability.

And finally while I’m really not going to get dragged into a semantics debate with you I think most would agree that however or why ever thieves are able to run a full glass cannon build in WvW and remain viable is frankly a bit much. Through out this thread many many players have pointed some of the amazing things thieves (not the players playing them but the profession itself which is not to say in anyway I am referring to the person playing the profession and not the profession itself and it’s inherent abilities which are limited to the profession and not the player (happy?)) are able to do right now and all together it’s just a bit much, so all I’m mentioning is that some of this just needs balancing, your character shouldn’t be considered dead on sight if a thief sees you and you’re running anything but a fairly “tanky” build.

EDIT: Also once more, really… tone down the condescension please you’re laying it on really thick and it’s not appreciated. If I’m wrong well that’s fine that’s certainly a possibility however at no point do I (or anyone else) ever need you looking down your nose at anyone else trying to make them feel like kitten in a constructive conversation.

Ravnodaus.5130:

The problem you’re describing Atti, is the rendering issue. I’ve never heard a thief player claim anything other than that it should be fixed asap. We all know it needs to be fixed, everyone admits it… nothing to see, move along. But they’re not actually in stealth longer than intended, for clarity sake you should know the difference. Not rendering in quickly, and being stealthed, are not identical. You may not be able to fully see them, but their location is actually noticeable while unrendered, and they can be targeted while not rendered in too.

Exaggeration leads to people discrediting you as an unreliable source of information, and can render your opinions meaningless and pointless, as people will tune you out. There are plenty enough real issues, you don’t have to pretend they are something they aren’t for people to listen, quite the contrary.

“dropping backstabs fast enough to do 20k+ damage in a few seconds” though, is patently false. You can only do 1 backstab in a few seconds, it isn’t even mechanically possible to more than one in a few seconds, ever. No amount of personal skill, gear, traits or combination thereof can alter that either. Simply, not, possible.

So again to that whole exaggerating thing. Best practice if you want to be heard? Don’t embellish, it just casts doubt on everything you have to say.

The sad fact is I’m neither lying or embellishing the facts, next time I go down I’ll screen shot the combat logs and post a link to them (I honestly will). But yes I have been hit by thieves fast and hard enough so that I do go down in several seconds (not saying how many since I wouldn’t want to be seen untruthful… but yes just a few) and yes I have looked at my combat log and seen a string of hits ranging from 5-9k each, and further more I do recognize the backstab animation well enough to know that this particular skill is being used often enough that (as in constantly) so that it is most likely the source of that damage (coupled with some really high mugs on occasion).

So you can believe whatever you like however regardless of supposed exaggeration or otherwise that sort of burst is unbalanced plain and simple. In fact the crux of the issue is that thieves can run a complete glass cannon build in WvW and be viable whereas almost every other profession knows that’s suicide and that’s just not okay. So yes, backstab does need some balancing, in fact I’d venture to guess that thieves didn’t care for the redic eviscerates warriors were dropping back in the day and were more than happy to call for some balance on that skill, well now it’s your turn for some balance as well.

No offense but in WvW thieves need a nerf, a heavy one at that and soon. Due to the whole render distance thing being able to stay in stealth far longer than intended you should be able to and being able to drop backstabs fast enough to do 20k+ damage in a few seconds is very OP and frankly… you thieves know it. In my WvW gear I usually have around 1500 toughness and somewhere around 25k health (not a ton I know but I’m just saying I’m not running a glass cannon build either) and I regularly get taken down by thieves in (not joking or exaggerating) 3-4 sec if I don’t have endure pain up, if I do you just disappear run away and I have no recourse, that… isn’t really balanced at all. So yea, every other class knows running a glass cannon build isn’t really viable for PvP or WvW and it’s time for the kings of that to know it too.

You guys need a serious look over several of your skills as horribly exploitable at the moment, and you’re lying to yourself if you think that folks aren’t using these to have some rather unreasonable abilities compared to all the other classes.

TheBob.9863:

First suggestion seems to fit best, when you’re done with personal story you get to choose, if you want 2x token A or 1x token B. Two-handers are purchasable with 1x tokenB and 1handers are purchasable with 1x tokenA, what is the downside for this?

That some people just salvage the items straight off for mats and now you have someone who potentially can get twice the items as another. So you’d have to make 2h weps result in twice as much salvageable materials.

Really though this is such nitpicking, I play a dual wielding warrior and I could care less because it is so painfully easy to get weapons that are even better than the ones offered as a reward from this. So if I was the OP I would stop trying to turn molehills into mountains, this just isn’t that big a deal.

Dunno, I love the Norn Tier 3 medium set I think it looks great

powercore.7021:

heres the shield!

Wow, that’s better than I expected very nice

Shaileya.7063:

Atticus.7194:

@Shaileya those are the Deathly Avian Shoulderpads correct?

Yep. I just went ahead and got the medium ones from the TP after realizing they are tradeable and way cheaper to buy from other disappointed users, lol. Considering they appear identical.. Why seperate the skins into armor types, Anet? Just adding even more lottery into it for no good reason.

[The feathers are color-changeable. I didn’t notice before taking the screenshots.]

Thanks and yea I’m with you, they don’t look bad with medium armor but heavy… they don’t really fit

@Shaileya those are the Deathly Avian Shoulderpads correct?

Hmmm, sounds odd the mail sent with the item for him mentions Fort Trinity specifically. Hope we get an ANet response

I too would love to see what those look like