Guild Wars 2

Brutus.5732:

oxide.8324:

Brutus.5732:

Those of you arguing against SOR getting SEA coverage, you are arguing to preserve your PvDoor.

From ~8am-12pm EST SOR is weak and we see maps like we see now. We probably have a single zerg of 40 jumping around trying to hold stuff. Waha comes by with 80 and a handful of omegas, BG is out in force on several maps and we have to start choosing between EB Keep and Garrison, if we hold anything. This is the daily schedule unless we get people staying up late\coming on early when we may tick between 100-200.

I understand you might think you need the PvDoor to be competitive but you are arguing to preserve your PvDoor make no mistake.

Congrats to BG for the win, you worked hard and we did not work hard enough.

Lol, why does SoR need more SEA coverage? SoR already zergs everything during NA and EU. SEA is the only break BG and JQ get.

You are arguing for a break from fighting so you can PvDoor.

Other than this week, which has been your people not showing up, you guys normally tick around 150-200, nothing personal but that is not PvDoor numbers from our side. You guys had one bad week and all of a sudden its “WE ARE SO OUTNUMBERED IN SEA”

salluks.6017:

is that why u keep avoiding GVG with IRON?

Because ramming 20 people into 20 other people is the perfect example of skill… Until they come out with an actual GvG mode that requires strategy and skill amongst players, not that interested personally.

@blasino lol I think the only class that really needs that type of attitude is ranger atm. Poor guys keep getting hit hard to the point of only being decent in spvp.

@liu
As far as using sword #3, and I do not like to say this often, is a L2P issue. You use it paired with an immobilize, ring of warding or just when the enemy is straight up in your face, not when chasing or trying to hit someone at mac range.

As far as an immobilize buff… No. 5 seconds of sitting still is way to strong in a game dedicated to movement and evading attacks. There is a reason there is added condition duration in this game, and you have to sacrifice things to get to it, because it can be powerful.

For judges intervention once again, no. It is literally the best gap closer in the game. Instant cast, does damage, burns, can be used to reach people at higher heights as long you can take a walking path to get there, (love teleporting onto people at the entrance to vale.) and the biggest thing is that it does not interupt skill use, meaning you can pre cast zealots defense or ring of warding, use JI and land right ontop of them as the skill activates.

Once again, there are options out there to help our mobility, you just have to use a decet amount of them to keep up with people sadly.

I am torn on the whole mobility issue honestly. We have a decent amount but the issue is you have to stack a fair amount of mobility + CC to keep much near us in WvW (spvp should not be an issue for guardians, ever) JI is amazing, GS leep is decent, when also paired with binding blades, Sword leap however i feel is lack luster, as anything with swiftness on is just going to outrun you due to the animation of it.

What honestly decides our mobility though, is condition removal, and being able to stay clear of chill/cripple. I personally run hoelbrak runes, condition duration reduction food, and Pure of voice, along with retreat to make sure I can get swiftness and keep CCs off me to keep up with the faster classes.

Also, two hand mastery with GS/Hammer is extremely good for keeping up with people with reduced cds on a gap closer, a pull, an immobilize, and Ring of Warding.

Just keep in mind, that there are still classes that you are never going to catch if they dedicate themselves to getting away, such as GS warrior, Thief, and most Eles. Engineers can also be an issue as well, just because the amount of lock down they can have.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h17|2.1g.h17|1n.79.1c.79.1n.79.1c.79.1n.79.1c.79|1k.61.1k.61.1k.61.1k.61.1k.61.1a.61|0.p64.a4.u28b.5|16.1|w.18.19.17.1i|e

Is my current build, add in a manual 250 power and 80 toughness for lust stacks and to fix strength in numbers.

For some reason I cant remember the trinket layout I had that was giving me better overall stats with the celestial gear, Once i figure it out I will edit this post.

For pure Damage / pure tank builds, no, celestial will not help. However for the hybrid builds like myself that already run a solid mix of all stats (3.4k attack after buffs pre might, 2.9k armor, 16k health, 650 healing power etc etc) the celestial armor is a pretty decent upgrade. the big difference is the amount of crit damage I get back since I don’t run 30 valor anymore. when I get more time I will show the comparison between my current and celestial with different trinkets.

CMF.5461:

Off a whim, I stacked every possible form of condition damage and condition damage conversion stats on a build website and came up with 3507 condition damage on a guardian with 25 might and 25 sigil of corruption stacks.

This results in a 1205 damage per a tick burn.

Against a moderatly geared person with 15000 hp it would take 12 seconds to kill
A stronger opponent with 20000 hp would take 16 seconds
and a max hp target with around 33300 hp would take 27 seconds

Very unrealistic numbers but kind of shows how little burning does alone, even with the best numbers.

Combined and with damage modifying traits it is good, but I just don’t think it is worth it for large amounts of condition damage for us. Condition duration is also tantalizing but just seems like not enough to push it, since it won’t help us kill in fewer seconds with more stacks.

Back on topic though, I just want to reaffirm that permeating wrath is a nice tool for AE damage when combined with radiant power or fiery wrath.

Also the best way to increase “dps” is through AE burns like foofad has explained, so it seems that multi target burning and AE damage is our niche with conditions.

I honestly think we just need one more condition just to make it worth it. Be it bleed, poison, confusion or torment, just something else to make it so burning isn’t our only source of condition damage.

Svarty.8019:

Celestial is for people who want a jack-of-all-trades/rubbish-at-everything build, depending on your perspective.

Depends on your build honestly. For me, celestial armor with the correct trinkets actually keeps my build fairly close to what I have, but increases a few certain areas (mostly crit damage) Alot of people go for more hybrid builds on guardians, so there is alot of stat mixing to achieve that, which ends up giving you celestial like stats in a way to begin with.

The weapon is at 79 per stat with 10% crit damage, so i would assume the armors to be correct as well. however i just realized that everything is account bound, which means im stuck leveling armorsmith at some point to do all of this -.-

The biggest thing I honestly get out of celestial is the added crit damage which my current build lacks. I do lose a very small amount of power, and some healing power, which I am looking at ways to make up, but overall my armor/health go up very slightly, while my crit chance/crit damage go up very nicely.

I am totally going to get the full armor set for my build, as it actually is a decent stat balance/ increase with the right trinkets.

Also for extra help, and if you don’t actually feel like putting stats on the armor, the basic manual for the clestial armor +2h weapon is

power: 224,
precision: 224,
toughness: 224,
vitality: 224,
healing power: 224,
condition damage: 224,
critical damage: 30,

without weapon it is
power: 145,
precision: 145,
toughness: 145,
vitality: 145,
healing power: 145,
condition damage: 145,
critical damage: 20,

Yeah, have to say, nice stats, but honestly, cool off with the “this is the best AH build ever” attitude.

1500 toughness as a limit has no basis what so ever. Not sure if you are aware, but our self healing scales directly with our toughness, as we can heal up better from smaller hits than larger ones. Not to discredit our need for vitality, but running any build with somewhat solid condition removal and a good amount of self healing will allow toughness to easily outshine vitality.

Second, You didn’t even know about sigil cool downs and you are lecturing people on min/maxing regarding stats? You do realize that foo’s build actually has around the same, possibly a bit more due to citadel runes and the fury up time they give? 5% chance may not seem like a lot, but in a zerg it is pretty easy to activate, and its not something that you have to sit there and keep activating, considering its a 1min cd with a 36 sec duration.

After actually punching in buffs and manual things such as full bloodlust stacks, and fixing certain traits (stupid strength in numbers) His build actually has a 5000 effective health difference, which by the way, is just what your health is, and then factoring in how much reduced damage you take due to your armor, so there really is no reason to shrug it off, as it has nothing to do with healing and dodging. And without the fiery wrath trait is only 300 effective power behind. with the trait he is 200 effective power ahead. Meaning that yes, you have more sustained damage, but he has more burst potential. and ALOT more survivablity

Current stats, with food/ bloodlust stacks/ while in combat, Working on finally getting some new trinkets, so the build isn’t fully complete yet though.

Darek.1836:

Oreoginal.1580:

Any chance this build will work with a Greatsword/Hammer build?

I really love the concept of uber sustain (definitely something I wish I had on my Warrior).

he’s depending a lot on sword mobility watching a couple mins of his videos
perma retalliation is pretty good but he’s missing a ton of extra healing w/o 30 in honor and AH..
personally I think he’s overhealing a bit considering all of his damage mitigation, healing that could be replaced with more dps. looking at his old vids he usually has 2 states, first being he’s 100% hp, 2nd being where he’s focused and is losing HP. he usually just heals up after being focused hard and its back to same old 100%.

First you are saying he is missing a ton of extra healing through not having AH, then you say he is overhealing? which is it?

I actually messed around with a 10/25/0/25/10 in spvp with full zerkers last night. There was no literal one shotting people even with SoW/MB/JI combo, even on other GCs. However it did leave alot of people low enough to finish them off with a few swings, and was actually alot of fun to play in hotjoin, but actually playing against a few good people really shows how much of a gimmick the spec is.

Broken spec is broken! Nerf it to the ground!

All kidding aside, I am amazed you re-posted it Chris, I figured I would have to do it eventually just to annoy you.

So foo, I have to ask how you feel about racial skills that give extra conditions instead of burning, such as the asuran utilities, some of the norn transforms, and reaper of grenth for humans. Do you think they are worth it to try or is it better just to run with just physical damage/burning?

I would honestly assume it to be a gimmick 10/25/0/25/10 build with full zerkers or something. 50% extra damage to burning targets when <100% endurance and with Aegis up. Use focus #5 and Judges intervention in a Mighty Blow just when it explodes, pretty much what stunningstyles showed in his vid but with MB instead of WW.

Not sure why you would bother with the glacial heart trait if you can kill someone that fast with the hammer anyways honestly… Seems like a complete waste for a CC that doesn’t even matter.

Something I just realized, It is actually possible to get up to 1k burn damage through just empower use and gear… If only it didn’t require almost glass cannon stats and lack of most defensive options to do -.-

Anyone know what part of the cast they talk about guardians? I am lazy and don’t feel like skimming trying to find it lol.

Nvm, found it, ooooo so much information /sarcasm

@lonewolf: I said right in my post that I would prefer an offensive offhand over another defensive offhand (which the OP suggest for offhand sword skills) so not sure why you think I want them to require only defensive ones.

I would honestly love for them to make spear an actual land weapon as well personally. Not the same exact skill set, but in general, just because I feel it fits the class better (being that is is pretty much a monk/paragon combination)

As for Mesmers, Sword I can see, being a fluid magic class that does not rely on straight casting, GS I never thought made sense in the least bit, and I am still not sure why they included it other than “well, we really do not have anything else that makes sense as a 2h.”

Wolfheart.1938:

Bash.7291:

Ummmm tome of wrath is horrible in wvw…. The daze takes forever and a year to cast, smiters boon does not affect the guardian, quickness and fury are ok, but 3s of quickness is honestly very weak after the nerf, and the #1 skill scales horribly with power. Maybe in a condition heavy build it might be ok, but even running full dps it was very very weak. All you are really left with is a decent weakness/cripple bouncing skill, and buffing your allies, while not contributing much to actual damage yourself.

Smiter’s boon now affects you, the quickness has been increased to 5s and the daze “only” takes 2s to cast (3s AoE daze should require a decent cast time). Also the first skill is ranged and aoe, two things that every guardian in WvW would love to have.

Wiki needs an update then, but still running 10/25/10/25 for 30% extra damage in a pure zerker build in spvp hits for about 1.4k on a heavy golem, compared to 1.1k for staff auto attack with same set up (1.3k if I feel like using empower), and I also get to keep my elite, heal, and utilities. Also, the daze requires you to stand still, which is pretty much horrible in wvw, It is great that boon now effects guardians, but even then you might as well use a staff that gives you access to all of your abilities, and has half the buffs (some even stronger) than an elite gives. As I said, the only awesome ability on the elite is affliction, just because it gives cripple/weakness/good damage.

The buff tooltip that appears on your buff bar just has not been updated, and still shows 70, however character panel shows a 150 point increase when it is active.

Ummmm tome of wrath is horrible in wvw…. The daze takes forever and a year to cast, smiters boon does not affect the guardian, quickness and fury are ok, but 3s of quickness is honestly very weak after the nerf, and the #1 skill scales horribly with power. Maybe in a condition heavy build it might be ok, but even running full dps it was very very weak. All you are really left with is a decent weakness/cripple bouncing skill, and buffing your allies, while not contributing much to actual damage yourself.

As much as I would love off-hand sword, it just does not really fit the whole devout psuedo-holy warrior concept of gaurdian. Also, i dont think either skill would really work, as the last thing we need is more defensive abilities, and also 2/3 of our offhands are more defensive in nature anyways.

foofad.5162:

I added another sample build. I played around with it for a bit and had a good time in AC and low level fractals. Very bizarre to play though, the style is pretty radically different from the norm. Going to add a defensive pseudo-boonway/healway next.

I actually made a partial healway with a might stacking burn base but honestly was not a fan of it. The requirement to use empower ASAP when possible just did not feel right in a zerg setting where I am so used to movement. However you can get almost 1k condition damage just from sigil of battle swapping and empower might stacks. I used GS/Staff, where GS was the more power weapon with burning as a supplement, and staff was the true condition weapon. Also, I may have gone overboard with condition removal, so pure of voice could also be changed to EM to get even more might stacks. But as I said, I just did not really like the play style of the build but others might.

Oh and things to make sure you manual input: 250 power for bloodlust stacks, 80 toughness because of lack of update on strength in numbers, 90 condition damage from signet not being updated.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h1h|6.1f.h1h|1n.79.1c.79.1n.79.1c.79.1n.79.1c.79|1k.67.1k.67.1k.67.1k.67.1k.67.1c.67|0.0.a6.u28b.u29b|16.d|w.18.19.1d.1i|e

Human personally, Just because Reaper of Grenth will wreck someone’s day in a 1v1 wvw roaming fight lol. Honestly though, unless you are trying to get something that guardians don’t already have, race does not matter. And most of the racial skills are pretty crappy, along with most racial elites having extremely long CDs. (well compared to renewed focus at least)

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h1h|2.1g.h1l|1n.79.1c.79.1n.79.1c.79.1n.79.1c.79|1k.61.1k.61.1k.61.1k.61.1k.61.1a.61|0.p46.a4.u29b.5|15.1|w.18.19.17.1i|e

This is my personal build at the moment. I know some people run a 0/30/10/30/0 build as well but I have not seen many use the gear layout I use. To see the full stats you will need to manually enter in 250 power for bloodlust stacks (I always have an off weapon staff to get stacks until at 25) and 80 more toughness for the strength in numbers update that has not been put in the build calc yet.

I use this build for everything from roaming to small groups to zergs and it has yet to really fail me. Conditions do almost nothing with the 56% condition duration reduction, and pure of voice turning them into boons on shouts. You get decent damage, 4k MB crits on average light armor, 2-3k on heavies depending on toughness. but you also get good self sustain through regen healing from SY, and virtue use, also virtue passive, and dodge roll healing, which gives you almost 800 every time you dodge. You also get plenty of aegis and AoE blinds to help negate damage as well.

Mobility is also a non issue, as you get good swiftness uptime, as previously mentioned, low condition uptime on you, which helps against snares and immobilize, and also a good gap closing weapon in GS, and a great CC weapon in Hammer. However this build is suitable to be played with pretty much all weapons, Though I do suggest at least one set containing sword or GS, to make sure Blind exposure is still worth it to have. Also, you can go with EM in honor over two hand mastery, I just prefer it to get faster leap of faith and zealots embrace activations, which really help with keeping up with people.

I may have an extremely nice pure hybrid build (Healing, burning damage, pure damage, and condition removal) that might work, it is going to cost me a bit of gold and some testing (which I cant do because of reset night in wvw) but this thread may have sparked me onto something amazing.

You know, there was a build that I put in a build calc but I was not sure how well it would work, I may have to go get the gear and try it out. it is essentially a AoE condition support build with apoth gear. I never really thought to try staff with it, I will have to re-calc it and see what is possible with it.

I think the biggest issue with burning builds in WvW would be the people running condition duration reduction, such as myself. since I run 56% most guardian’s VoJ procs would not even have time to tick on me, and would require some sort of burning duration increase to actually make it worth it. However my question since i cant really test it out now. How does +condition duration and -condition duration work. Do they just cancel each other out until one is + or -, or does it up the condition duration being applied first, and then if you hit a target it lowers it by the % they have (which would actually lead to a net loss in condition up time)

Hunter.4783:

Outside of AH Valor is good due to:

30% crit dmg
Retributive Armor (3-5%) crit chance depending on gear
Purity (lets you drop heal signet for shelter which IMO is far superior)

When you combine these with AH, you can see how useful this entire traitline is.

And i tend to lol when people bash the valor line yet they are willing to drop 30 points in radiance which has kitten traits in general just to get an overrated minor trait

….. Radiance is actually very good for damage specs as long as your are running at least one of GS or Sword. Blind on vulnerability stacks quickly with all of our sources and inner fire is great in WvW or Spvp as you end up getting burning alot, which leads to great fury uptime. The 25 point trait is honestly just extra an extra bonus after those. And if you do run one hands 15% crit is huge. The valor line itself is good, and works for almost all weapons, but people rely way too heavily on it and need to start thinking outside the box.

ODB.6891:

foofad.5162:

ODB.6891:

Setun.4368:

foofad.5162:

I haven’t run Altruistic Healing since November. Don’t need it, don’t want it, enjoying the buff to Greatsword Power when I’m not busy demolishing things with sword/shield and staff.

So, y’know.

Learn to play, and the build diversity skyrockets.

Amen brother.

+1 to the pair of unskilled and clueless tools. Make sure to get that wool sheared off yourselves so you look good after this awesome patch.

Lmao. Since when did not needing a crutch like AH make me unskilled? I’m not the one having issues building my character away from Altruistic Healing.

Pretty sure you are so clueless that you managed to miss the point of every post in this thread. The entire point of the advertised build diversity was to get people to do something different than what the majority has and still are doing. That being 30 honor/30 valor builds. The fact that you keep specifically talking so much about not needing AH (despite my initial post not even mentioning it) makes me think you are actually an AH user. I don’t, have never, and will never trait any into valor and i’ve only gone as far into honor to pick up EM. This thread has nothing to do with my ability to build my character…my character has been built and is built for dps with a little thrown in to honor for EM. This thread was about the lack of the advertised build diversity when it comes to guardians. The current set up for guardians remains focused on GS/hammer/staff/mace. This patch just reinforced that majority instead of promoting different choices. It didn’t even promote exploring zeal for anyone other than GS users (zealous blade).

Once again….+1 bro

How does bragging about not going into valor make you any different from his point of not using AH? Hypocrit much? Also, avoiding valor entirely is stupid as well. There are some good strong self traits in there aside from AH/EM. People play the builds they want, the issue is getting people to actually think outside the AH box, because its been forced into peoples minds thakittens the only way to survive.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Bash ok, when You are not supportive and “boonless” so I agree Virtues isn’t traitline for You.
but for players focused on support that is great traitline.
about Permeathing Wrath trait – as for me that is one of the strongest boost to the virtues – and You cannot pick just the best boost and forget about lesser one didn’t You? that is the thing that ANet wanted to avoid – thats the reason we have adept master and grandmaster traits.
anyway you can take 30 into virtues just to upgrade VIRTUES – if I remember well each tier grants some virtue trait so If You are making use of Your virtues so that traitline still can be good

My poiny was that from a damage stand point there really is no reason to even try for that trait, as there is not many if any other damage based traits in the line. At least none that compare to other traitlines at least. Maybe if they added some more offense support options other than justice procs on 4 hits (which isnt really that great) and aoe justice procs, which would be great for wvw but I just lose too many stats/useful traits to get there.

Danicco.3568:

Amins.3710:

The patch was good for solo / very small roaming group play.

It did very little for the overall Meta of Guardian play and the focus of Honor/Valor being ‘just too good’.

But that’s a good thing too, for those who enjoy the Honor/Valor builds, they didn’t felt nerfed, and instead of nerfing this particular build to become in par with others, they buffed the others.
Everyone wins…

Bash.7291:

Sorry but spirit weapons in WvW are a joke. There is too much kiting room and too much AoE to make them even close to worthwhile. Also, if you are playing support roles then yes, there are alot of options, but damage roles in large groups tend to fall into that 1-2 build trap, mostly because they need the added healing of MF/AH to sustain the lower health pool.

They’re situational, and how you make the best use of them it’s up to you.
They’re not like Meditations which you instantly gain all benefits of the skill just by pressing the button, but exactly for that their effects are immensely more powerful.
I’m not talking about the Sword alone, because it’s damage sucked before, but the Bow and Shield were always great assets for Guardians in WvW and vastly underused.

They still have the issue of not moving with you once you engage in combat, but if you can benefit from their skills, they’re anything but a joke.
A 20~30 seconds nearly total projectile protection? (with weakness improved it’s even better)
A 4500×2 AoE Healing every 48 seconds with occasional condition removal?

I still want to test more to see how they last in larger fights, but so far they’re not going down instantly before I pop their skills.

And yeah, if you really want to be the melee tank/DpS there’s nothing wrong with going Valor/Honor, it has everything you require for your gameplay so I wouldn’t call it a “trap” too.
But now the thing is, we don’t have only that role to play, our other roles are much, much better, to say they’re on par in performance to our melee/DpS one.

Still, I need to test in some various situations to see if it’s really that awesome, but so far, they’re great.

Great, but the issue is keeping them alive in wvw. There is way yop much ground target AoE to make the shield last that long, and the healing on the bow falls into the issue of people needing to stay and stand in it. Also the AI is horrible ln them which can lead to you not even being near them when their regular skills activate, let alone chasing the bow down to get the healing. There are just way too many flaws to them compared to shouts, mediations, and consecrations, which are all more consistant, and are actualy controlled by you.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Bash.7291:

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

So You wouldn’t want to have condi removal on resolve?
nor possibility of placing just for example wall of reflection where it will be best option?

also that is good traitline for supporters – +30% to boon duration.
really as for know I don’t see a possibility for my guardian to don’t have 30 in virtues
btw. spirit weapons isn’t that bad – it have pretty nice synergies with burning builds

Nope, and nope, i already have plenty of condition reduction/removal so it doesnt appeal to me at all. Wall of reflection is honestly fine without traits in the first place anyways as well, but I don’t use it that often anyways.

As far as being a good traitline for supporters i agree, but personally I dont run support builds so it is a pretty wasted traitline for me. And 30% boon duration does nothing for someone that runs fairly boonless lol

Also as far as burn builds with spirit weapons, it is pretty pointless as you can generally
Keep close to 100% burning uptime on a target already, at least in pve, if your running a burn build in WvW them you are missing out on alot of damage. Switch the trait to make spirit weapons bleed and then we could talk.

Danicco.3568:

Amins.3710:

Thieves – Stealth
Rangers – Evades
Mesmers – Blinks / Stealth
Ele’s – running all over the map (simply, ability to disengage)
Engineers – invulns/stealth/root/snares

Guardians have Blocks & Blinds, and when used well, can be game-breaking.

Amins.3710:

Are guardians ‘shorted’, no. Are we pigeon holed into 1 or 2 builds in WvW that focus almost entirely in the Honor / Valor tree lines: YES.

I disagree with that. Ever since release I’ve been playing around with Zeal/Honor and Spirit Weapons & Consecrations, and it’s by far the most effective WvW build I’ve played.

While some Guardians are happy thinking “hey look I’m healing nuts here with AH! Over 375 HP per second!”, I’m like “hey look, I’m healing my party for 9000 every 48 seconds!”.
Some Guardians are happy thinking “Hahaha I can take hits”, I’m happier thinking “Hahaha I’m absorbing your projectiles!”.

This sort of build, while it’s good for groups, it sucked for roam and 1v1, and the last patch just made it godlike.
So no, Guardians aren’t pigeon holed into one or two builds, they’re pigeon holed in their own mentality.

This patch was awesome. Just awesome.

Sorry but spirit weapons in WvW are a joke. There is too much kiting room and too much AoE to make them even close to worthwhile. Also, if you are playing support roles then yes, there are alot of options, but damage roles in large groups tend to fall into that 1-2 build trap, mostly because they need the added healing of MF/AH to sustain the lower health pool.

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

Ok there is a huge issue regarding your phantasm comparison. Mesmers have them on every single weapon and as utilities. It makes sense that they are spread out in that fashion as you get a huge boost to almost every weapon. With guardians, we have symbols on only our 2h weapons, and a single main hand. Any of those traits are wasted on all of our offhands and 2/3 of our main hands.

That means taking points in zeal without using those weapons (of which 2 traits are cd reductions for weapons without symbols are wasted. As a mesmer, there isnt a single phantasm trait that is wasted.

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

The issue isn’t w/ the Buff’s in thier singularity… but w/ the overall effectiveness and synergy of builds…. specifically, in WvW.

I think that what we see with these changes is a balance for making less effective aspects of the Guardian profession better. We see improvements to spirit weapons, CDamage build, and specific things like the scepter, Zeal, etc… ALL of those things have been identified by players as main targets. Whether they are applicable to a specific element of the game isn’t relevant. I doubt very much that’s how Anet choose to change things.

If you feel like WvW aspect of Guardian was ‘shorted’ in some way, I don’t doubt that is simply a perception issue. Are Guardians so poorly performing in WvW that the approach to improve their weaker aspects is a poor way to choose targets for improvement instead of focusing on ‘WvW-specific’ aspects? I’m hard pressed to think that’s actually the case.

While I appreciate your objective point of view, you do seem to not take into account that my perspective is purely one of WvW and that I’ve already stated, that this patch was focused primarily on PvP, and more in between the lines, small solo/roaming builds where 1h’s are utilized more often then not.

Are guardians ‘shorted’, no. Are we pigeon holed into 1 or 2 builds in WvW that focus almost entirely in the Honor / Valor tree lines: YES.

That was and still is, the point. I think the vast majority of WvW Guardians understand this: GS, Hammer, Staff…. Honor/Valor.

Very little diversity and synergy… primarily due to our SEVERE lack of HP’s and the massive hit guardians take when going “Glass Cannon”, rather, any DPS/Burst focused build in comparison to ~every other class~ out there (bar Necro).

Again, I appreciate your objectivity and ability to take a step back when formulating your thoughts, but please, if you’re going to address me specifically, consider my perspective from which I’m formulating my position, along w/ the statements I’ve already laid out.

When i eventually get the chance i will be looking into a new build based partially on my leech build that might work in all walks of wvw life like my current one does. The only issue I am hitting is consistant condition removal at the moment, and the fact that i finnaly found a build that gives me pretty much everything i wanted lol. It will most likely be a while before i get to mess with this too much though, as I will be busy with a new little one at home, but it is something i plan on getting to eventually.

Pecar.1236:

you dont gain 450 toughness only 300 150 trait work only for allies not for you

No, it works for you too just like EM/AH it just only activates in combat. Go attack something and look at your buffbar and your stat sheet.

akamon.2769:

sorry for the double post. lol. just really wanted to highlight Bash’s comments on Glacial Heart suggestions. those are awesome and i would love chill on symbols for a Zeal Grandmaster. definitely big enough reason to go 30 deep.

@Bash or any others, you reckon we’ll be getting Torment or more reliable ways of inflicting other conditions? highly unlikely.. but i can’t fathom how they seem to be pushing for more CD builds for Guards, yet all we get are burns, which stack duration.

hopefully they’ll keep revamping.

Amins, sad to hear. : (( ANet really needs to shape up!!!

do keep in mind everyone, that these again are only preview of patchnotes from GW2hub. we will only know all the changes come the patch notes tomorrow / today. also, i want to think that these are only the changes to trait lines. there is no mention of skill changes, etc. so i am still holding my breath.

Honestly I wouldn’t have minded only getting a slight buff to glacial heart had we gotten torment, as it would have helped with some type of condition build, and with snares. My current issue is that mesmers will now get amazing confusion stacking, torment, burning, and possible bleeds all on one weapon set. While thieves will get decent bleed stacking, almost perm poison, and torment.

Say your enemy mesmer has 1150 condition damage on their character. (this leads to 100 damage bleed ticks, and is also most likely, a gross underestimate) For a mesmer, that would mean 615 damage per second from burns. 100 damage per second per bleed stack, 151 per action per confusion stack. and 150 damage per second while trying to move with torment. 4 stacks of bleed, 4 stacks of torment and 4 stacks of confusion and just 1 second of burning could cause you 2215 damage just for walking for one second and pressing a single attack key. Now imagine that on a class that can kite and clone spam… I don’t even want to think of thieves who can easily stack bleeds higher than that, along with poison, which also kills your healing on top of it.

Honestly, I can see condition duration reduction is going to become the required meta now, just because of this one condition making kiting classes even more powerful. Why they didn’t think to give it to the easiest to kite classes in the game I really do not know. At least Necro’s get it, so that’s a step in the right direction I guess.

I am just glad I already run a heavy condition removal damage spec…. last thing I need is to take damage while I am horribly failing at trying to hit someone just out of range of me. -.-

Well, at least they made it worthwhile to go 20 points into zeal now? Honestly none of the other trait changes are good enough to be worth it. Spirit weapons are still insanely niche of a utility compared to shouts/meditations/consecrations, and have very little strength in any sort of AoE based fight. 10% condition damage off power? Give us something other than burn and this would be great, but with just one damaging condition this trait isn’t worth the extra 10 you have to put into it.

Radiant fire is a good strong buff, more CD reduction on torch, and extra burn duration is nice, however you still need 100% extra condition duration to get VoJ ticks to actually hit more than once, and also in any group setting any condition based build is going to trump your burn damage very hard.

Glacial Heart: This skill actually needs a revamp, not a number change like what they actually did. Hammer already has the best CC out of all of our weapons, the weapons like Mace and sword however, need one more than anything else. (mace the most) I still think glacial heart should have A) been changed to apply to all weapon crits, 25% chance of activating, 15s cd, 2s duration. This would have given us a semi constant outflow of snare, without it being OP, or being completely useless due to a quick cleanse. Or apply chill to symbols. Moving this trait as a grandmaster in zeal would have actually made it worth going 30 into zeal for along with the new zealous blade trait, and would have given us a decent amount of new builds, instead of just slightly buffing something in a trait line almost everyone uses.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Bash.7291:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Bash but for enemies without stability it is “You Shall not pass!”

Unless properly dodged/jumped over :/

That is no possibility to jump over line of warding – eventually If You place it under wall and enemy will jump over it to you – but this isn’t how it should be used.
and I’ve never had a situation when enemy dodged through my line of warding (and I also tried phew times – didn’t work :P) and as for now I found it as great zerg-divider-skill
(seeing coming zerg – place line of warding before them – half of ppl stayed on this – isn’t that just great? already I had countless situation, when enemy atack have failed because of well-placed line of warding)

I have banished an ele over a ring of warding, that was set on level ground. It is completely possible to jump over them with the right timing.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Bash but for enemies without stability it is “You Shall not pass!”

Unless properly dodged/jumped over :/

Dear SoR, WHY YOU OVERKILL ME SO MUCH

I don’t personally think the wiki is correct, and that it should be labeled as a knockback, as generally people bounce off it very very slightly. Its the the same reason that if it is cast directly on top of someone they don’t get perma knockeddown, only if they run back into it. However, this whole tread is just a minor tool tip issue, there are only so many types of control effects in this game, that is just how the coding they have set up works. There is no “YOU CAN NOT PASS!” effect, just a line/ring/random orb shelter thing that creates a knockback/down effect.

Yeah, good bunker condition engineers are a pain to deal with 1v1. Big thing to do is when they drop the supply crate is to AoE the turrets hard and get them down, between the snares, the conditions, and the healing that one elite gives them it can wreck your day pretty bad. Otherwise you have to try to get away from it, but that just works in the engineer’s favor when they start bursting grenades.

One thing to make sure you have on you when going against a condition engi though is a scepter, used like a melee weapon with a 300 range you can keep constant damage on them, which is big for negating their regen. I personally run hoelbrak + poultry and leek soup for 56% condition reduction, along with whatever other removals i have (either Pure of voice, or smite condition/contemplation of purity when solo meditation built) All of this also helps with being kited as snares fall off fast, and are fairly easy to remove.

Overall though, Engineers when in the right hands are EXTREMELY good against guardians, and are going to be a tough fight no matter what.

Arken.3725:

Nike.2631:

Just a word to people considering new Spirit Weapon builds: Battle Presence affects the spirit weapons and can keep them in the fight quite a bit longer than otherwise.

Spirit weapons actually seem to benefit from all your party buffs. You have a LOT of options for enhancing spirit weapon builds .

I agree completely, the only problem I see is that the spirit weapon traits are scattered throughout multiple trees.

Yeah. really annoying, and also its still going to be almost impossible to keep them up in WvW unless you are roaming, even then it depends.