The bleeds can be useful, if they actually land. It is too easy to kite them.
The bleeds aren’t bad, but they aren’t enough to synergize well imo.
A projectile minion could be good but bone fiend and wurm are kind of strong and the attacks are too slow, assuming their health decays within 5 to 10 seconds.
I think the best option is a new type of minion that has some type of finisher, is either ranged or has a 300+ range leap like the hounds do, applies some condition on AA, has decaying HP, and gives LF on death.
If they don’t live too long, AI issues are limited, as they will be summoned in combat and immediately be aggro’d on the enemy, no pathing issues to worry about, plus a leap or ranged AA allows for less issues with pathing, and means you don’t need a build that is super reliant on controlling the enemy to allow minions uptime, like a more proper MM build is.
Finishers allow them better synergy with whatever you are doing, since whatever fields you are using they will combo with; this also adds a level of extra play, so that you can add synergy. So if you have poison fields they can add poison/weakness, ice field gives ice armor/chill, it is a great way for the minions to be useful no matter what build is using them.
A condition on AA, either every AA or every 2-3 AAs depending on the condition strength, allows them further help for some builds. I would stray away from bleeds, poison, fear, immobilize, blind, burning, and vuln, as they are either too strong, stack too much with what we already have and so don’t provide anything special, or shouldn’t be easily accessed like this. Torment/confusion would work well for a damaging condition, since they would help cover our bleeds, weakness is a good utility condition, cripple/chill are nice snares.
I would also say the minions should deal relatively low passive DPS, to make sure not much power is tied up by their damage, and they are more utility based. The decaying HP also helps limit power a little bit, and means that as they die in between fights they won’t have so many AI issues. Plus with LF on death, this becomes a decent way to get some LF between and during fights, if they die quickly at the very least you still get LF out of them, though it might be more prudent to have them give 5% LF on death, instead of the full 10%.
Overall, I do think the best option is to make new minions so that those minions can be specifically balanced for this skill alone, and custom made to suit it, and these minions should suit all builds, not just MM ones.
Their plan, as they mentioned to us, was to give Vampiric Aura (more proof they definitely listen) through a trait, seemingly merged with Bloodthirst. They also briefly mentioned something about Transfusion ressing allies, but that wasn’t mentioned much so that might not be happening, I wouldn’t put too much weight on that.
The best part about them talking about Blood as the source of support is that it is our base profession. No worrying about support builds being forced into an Elite specialization, we can get at least some from Blood.
Thank you for the clarification Karl!
Also, I would like to make it official, no more complaining about red posts for at least a few months.
Signet of Vampirism’s active is fine, it is a possible 10k additional damage to a single target.
Its not like they can see it on the forums and see “oh people don’t like the AI, let me change it!” and then in 5 minutes fix it. Its tied into the AI of all mobs. The current AI system, assuming it worked properly, is great. It is simple, it gets the job done.
I dislike Jagged Horrors because they are worthless unless you have Death Nova, and that shouldn’t be a requirement to use the skill.
Life stealing should be good with Reaper in DS. But yeah the numbers are probably too small for regular necro in DS. Not sure how they can fix that without imbalancing it on Reaper though.
And this is why I think ICD (just for Vampiric) will be necessary. There is no way you can balance Vampiric to be useful to everyone when weapon proc speeds are so vastly different. So you either have to accept it will be essentially useless on all builds except whichever ones hit fastest.
I don’t really like on-death because of how badly it applies to the game. Almost all remotely-challenging content, where defensive traits begin to matter, involve very low numbers of strong enemies. Plus SC is just weak, a Master minor that gives only 2% extra LF on death?
I would much rather a trait that gives some kind of defense, an AoE blind of some sort tied to DS would be nice due to the various sources of synergy we get from it.
I know it works. Im wondering how it works.
My guess would be each instance of direct damage will strip a boon, as that is the easiest/best way for them to track “hits”.
Rise! will not be used on standard MM builds. It will be used on maybe condi MM, but otherwise it just doesn’t particularly supply what you need, and MM builds don’t want to be involved in fights large enough for Rise! to be effective. It will mostly be used on non-MM builds that are wanting to abuse Death Nova’s poison stacking for Putrid Defense upkeep.
However, MM has a lot of variety with the new spec. Blood Magic is absolutely not needed in any way, you can get enough sustain via Reaper to keep yourself alive. Blood Magic will be taken on builds that want to keep their minions alive better, while Soul Reaping or Spite can be used as sources of extra damage/sustain, especially Spite due to the really effective vuln stacking.
Bone Fiends would work. Up to 10 projectile finishers every 3s means near permanent 10 stacks of poison/burning/confusion or extra chill or 2k damage from dark fields, on top of 200 DPS each just base, with a bit of cripple mixed in. They are also the most reliable.
If they want to stick with the current minion idea they either need to use Bone Fiends, because of the projectile finishers (Flesh Wurms would suck since they can’t move), allow for active abilities of the minions summoned, or simply design a new minion type. Otherwise they’d have to make a new skill.
They should fix DS, absolutely. This is, however, the dumbest possible way of getting that to happen.
Well, Bone Fiends for example have decent damage (just about 200 DPS each), plus they’d provide a ton of finishers which is really nice, and they apply cripple every 10s. This is overall nice and works for any build, since it amplifies what you are already doing via combo fields.
As an example, if you are condi and have some poison fields, 5x bone fiends is 10 stacks of poison every 3 seconds, and the poison will last for 2s base. If you have dark fields down they deal around 2k extra damage (and heal themselves) every 3s on top of their passive damage. Through an Ice field they’d apply chill, fire = burning, etc. This makes them useful no matter what build uses them, plus they are the most reliable minion to use.
And is the damage static or is it based off condition damage?
Should be condition damage, but I’m not sure if this was confirmed.
Question: will deathly chill work like terror that each second of chill will proc damage? Or just application? I can’t watch video at work to try and answer question on my own.
It will work like Terror. And in fact will always work alongside terror since all fears apply 3s of chill.
The counterplay to all other shouts is playing around the boons and conditions they give with removal, kiting, etc. The boon and condition system inherently allows counterplay because boons and conditions can be removed, stalled out, etc. Reaper shouts do not need to be different; said counterplay is already baked into the game. Otherwise Warriors and Guardians and Rangers would not have instant shouts.
That’s like saying stuns shouldn’t have cast times because you can just remove them afterwards.
The shouts that take a strong, immediate, offensive threat should have appropriate cast times. The only shout in the game which currently has a direct offensive affect on the enemy is Fear Me!, which is far weaker than what we’re getting. All the other ones are buffs/debuffs which require follow up, which can then be counterplayed.
That isn’t to say our shouts need super long cast times, but they need appropriate cast times, which in this case means they actually need cast times. Some need to be reduced like the Elite and Rise, others are fine.
Blood Magic won’t be all support, it will just finally have useful support. Also the ability to heal through DS is a really big change, while our base DS is quite bad at procing siphons, RS will be amazing at it.
I enjoy that it is more directly synergetic than anything else. You track them, activate their abilities, combo long CC/burst rotations, and make sure to use defensive CDs to keep them alive. The changes will help this even more.
Fixes, loosely ordered:
1) AI (duh)
2) Reduction of cast times. 1/2s to summon minions, all minion actives except heal should be instant cast.
Blood Fiend – passive heal should scale with your healing power, and should either ignore defenses (so the blood fiend simply heals you every few seconds it is alive, with its attack being totally separate) or split into passive and active healing (so some small heal per seconds plus a heal that needs him to hit is attack with) in some way
Bone Minion – active should blow up the minion closest to your targeted enemy, and they should stand directly to the sides of your feet when not aggro’d (like a dog that is heeling) to allow better blasting
Shadow Fiend – should cleave and the minion should take 1/2s to cast his ability after he is ordered to
Bone Fiend – active now has more noticeable particles so enemies can tell he is going to immobilize, and his active is now an attack-timer reset
Flesh Wurm – now combo finishes at your location before teleporting you away
Flesh Golem – cleaves 3 targets, no longer gets stuck on tiny pebbles, has a 1s noticeable animation before charging (but his active is instant cast), charge speed nerf is reverted, grants 3 stacks of 3s of stability every 3s
3) Death Nova should drop to Master Tier in place of Reaper’s Protection, which should be pushed to GM and appropriately buffed in some way
4) When minions are a certain range from their target (land distance, so the actual distance they’d have to run to get to the target) or further they gain increased speed for 1-2s to lessen how easily they can be kited by simply going up/down ledges
Can’t think of anything else atm, but there might be more.
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
At the very, very least signet passives should persist while in DS, even if they don’t add utilities (though I think they should).
The -50%, are you talking about about vital persistance? You do know that reduces natural degeneration right? not incoming damage
Death Shroud naturally takes 50% reduced direct damage. It has been the case for an extremely long time.
Oh rekt, yeah I thought I saw it was 2s on the wiki. Then yeah change that, it is essentially comparable to supply crate.
You only get 1s of stability, and it is only 1 stack of stability, it is JUST enough to cover the cast animation. It is not strictly better, because if you are interrupted you just lost an entire skill CD just to get a stun break.
Axe trait does affect DS damage while using axe.
I keep forgetting YAAW is a stun break. It should be instant, and I think Suffer deserves a stun break/instant cast or an increase to 2 condis per hit.
But yeah, not-instant stun breaks suck, especially on abilities with very little direct effect. For example YAAW is strong, however it has very little direct effect on cast, its counterplay is more tied into avoiding the Reaper after they have acquired that might, not on preventing them from getting it. Same with Arise! it has almost no direct effect, you should counterplay the minions themselves not their summon.
Yeah SC could be replaced without any complaints.
Cast times are absolutely necessary for at least some of the shouts. Counterplay is not only important for a healthy game, but by allowing a skill to have counterplay you can increase its strength.
Basically, the skills that have large effects warrant long cast times. CttB is completely warranted, though it needs to be buffed slightly. NCSY is plenty strong as it is. YSIM is short cast, YAAW is fine. Arise! is probably just inheriting cast time from minion summons, but that’s stupid minion’s shouldn’t take 1.5s to summon anyway, and Suffer is basically a defensive skill and should have a shorter cast time, if any.
But really, if you want strong offensive shouts, they will have cast times. Get used to the idea, because instant cast shouts would be so weak they’d be worthless.
Yeah, you walk slowly after you kill somebody, next time you came again in the range of your steal or one of your other teleports, or shortbow it does have again no effect isn’t?
When I try to kite a thief, chill does absolutely nothing for me, one button 10 m teleport, one more button another teleport
You ever see a thief try to heartseeker while chilled? You ever seen one try to backstab while chilled? Just because the thief can run away doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect them.
I’m wondering how these effects will work with larger hitboxes in PvE.
The shouts have the potential to be extremely strong. If anything I’d rather they buff their effects (and there are a few effects that could be buffed), but leave the cast times, than have no cast time and force them to be weak.
I want the scythe to be so large that when I swing it at mid point the visuals look like I’m hitting people on both side points at once.
Chill absolutely hurts thieves, the idea that it doesn’t is absolutely ridiculous and only spread by people who have never touched thief.
Chill is a strong condition, arguably the strongest condition outside of immobilize when you consider how easily it will reach 100% duration, and how well it synergizes with everything else we do.
Actually Reaper doesn’t really stack vuln all that much, it simply provides good access to chill and a reason to stay in DS, so it allows Spite’s vuln stacking to max out.
Two actually, you’d also be poisoning, and if you have Curses w/ some crit chance you would bleed every so often as well. Still not unmanageable though, it seems pretty balanced already.
Actually thinking it over, I think a new minion type would work best. The problem with using current minions is that you end up being forced to balance the shout around them, instead of balancing the minions to suit the shout. If you create a new minion type then the minions themselves can be balanced in order to make sure that they aren’t too strong. It also means you can do unique things like minions that siphon HP for themselves, or inflict a certain condition (probably every X AAs), have finishers, etc.
Something ranged with some kind of finisher or condition via autos.
It would act like Terror, so it would be just like a damaging condition.
snip
Great look at coefficients, they aren’t at all amazing considering how much they talked about high damage. If its super slow it should be dealing high damage on the abilities that aren’t heavy on utility.
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
I’m not sure what you all are smoking, the utilities are absolutely worth taking. The only changes needed would be making Suffer! a stun break again, making Rise! have some decent minions like Bone Fiends, and Your Soul is Mine! having a scaling heal/ratio with people hit (not a ton).
But these shouts are very strong. Don’t think of them like other shouts, these are very offensive utilities, and they scale into teamfights crazy well.
2 seconds is absolutely fair, interrupts don’t put the skill on full CD. Supply Crate for example has the same cast time and stun, with a full minute higher CD, and it is really strong.
It would be great if it was condi, because the specialization has nice synergy with a tankier condi setup.
I don’t think Life Blast is the issue with old DS, the lack of internal synergy is. Compare the strength of being able to lay down a field then double finish on it, as well as stability and all the other really cool stuff it does. The problem isn’t that our old DS skills are weak in a direct 1 to 1 comparison, but that overall the lack of comboing makes them collectively weaker, and more boring.
When I watched the stream it seemed to be missing the beginning part.
Does the recharge bonus on gravedigger mean it recharges 100% faster (ie: 4s CD) or recharge 100% (ie: use it immediately after).
It has no CD when it hits something below 50% HP. RIP AI builds.
And yes, you can move while casting it.
Not all power builds need to nuke people. The elite is absolutely strong.
Impossible to know until it is finished with no more balance tweaks imminent, and would also highly depend on build. Reaper synergizes with so many different spec combos you can’t just say one is the best.
Also i bet the shouts have cast times or their effects will be pathetic on long cds. Probably cast times cos anet will be worried about insta cast damage
Told you
20s heal
25/35/40/40 for utilities
120 for elite
These aren’t remotely too long, and they can be heavily reduced (35%) to 13/16.25/22.75/26/78. Both CDs are absolutely reasonable, and the effects are extremely strong, and in very large areas of effect (600 radius).
Is not Chill Element belong to Elementalist Profession? What connection/relationship does communicating with the dead and raising the dead spirits have with an element?
Absolutely~ Nothing!!
You honestly could have just said “I know literally nothing about GW2’s Necromancer, but here is my opinion anyway!” Chill is absolutely core to the theme of Necromancer, has been for 10 years.
I think the shouts are great. Only the minion one is somewhat questionable, mainly because I think they need to look into the types of minions being summoned.
I do think the specialization is so well made that it really points out some of the deficiencies of the base profession. For example, when you compare our normal weapons and Death Shroud to greatsword and Reaper’s Shroud, you notice the real lack of fields/finishers, and overall synergy. Greatsword has really cool combos you can use with its abilities (blind/cripple field→ pull enemies → immediately start casting Gravedigger so that once they get to you you are already basically done), as does Reaper’s Shroud. Really great synergy all around, and we could use a lot more of it.
However, power wise I think it is balanced relatively fine.
Reaper gets all of the AoE bonus of teamfight in a 1v1 against a Mesmer. So we get our shout CD reductions, and all the highest effects against a mesmer.
Reaper Shroud is a minor trait, so if you are Reaper specialization you have to have Reaper’s Shroud.
Let’s be honest though, Reaper Shroud 3 is stronger than any form of defiance we ever would have gotten.