Guild Wars 2

WhiteCrow.5310:

Black Box.9312:

I won’t deny being biased towards Guardian, but even so it kind of irks me that so far both the Mesmer and the Necro have gotten specs that are fully cohesive with the base class. By contrast, almost nothing in the Dragonhunter traitline complements the base Guardian skills and traits, and vice versa.

Welcome to Necro for the last several years. Condition Grandmaster traits in our crit line, an entire line that is useless and doesn’t work with our class mechanic (Blood magic). And yet I stuck it out and still PvP’ed with it. You can do the same.

Yes, because making the same mistakes with a different class previously completely justifies doing it again.

I’d be more happy about a DPS/range-oriented spec if it didn’t have traps and it actually reinforced the base class, instead of being almost an entirely different one. As it stands, I don’t care for what we’re getting at all and am more interested in dropping Guardian entirely for a Revenant.

HotHit.6783:

Unfortunately, “Watch out for the Plaguebringer’s poisonous breath!”, “Watch out! It’s dropped poison! Stay away from it!” and “Stay out of its reach! It’s calling for the dead to rise!” were deemed too traumatic to be implemented in the final version.

Am I the only one that was at least a little bit disappointed that we didn’t get “This Won’t End Well”?

1. Everything else.
-
-
-
9. Dragonhunter.

Ezeriel.9574:

What bizarro world is this?

Dragon Hunter fixes the guardian’s greatest area of weakness, long range.

Reaper offers necros nothing. No group buffs, no blast finishers, no mobility. Shortbow thieves, rangers, engineers, Dragon Knights… anything that can kite an undead skellie in Orr, will have nothing to fear from Reapers.

The traps work, they may not fit your theme of a guardian, but they are awesome. The shouts, necros got, will never be used.

Beyond pve melee aoe, the reaper has nothing to see.

And then suddenly, the Reaper pulls you. And then chills you. And then hits you with unblockable attacks for heavy damage. Good luck getting out of that situation with a longbow Guardian that sucks enough at disengage already without 66% reduced movement speed and increased cooldown.

Farzo.8410:

Sylent.3165:

Guardian was already in a great place.

This line is the bane of my existence.

SlayerSixx.5763:

A slow, hard hitting class like reaper is basically a god send for us guards who know how to actually block.

I dunno what stream you were watching yesterday, but Guardians are going to get kitten on by a good Reaper. As if our cooldowns weren’t long enough on their own, perma chill and a shout that makes attacks unblockable are going to wreak havoc on a medi guard that already has trouble disengaging without 66% less movement speed.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Black Box.9312:

It’s awful. The bow looks promising, but the traps are based on terrible mechanics and are just another source of area denial, which we absolutely did not need over mobile damage sources. The traitline has no synergy with any of our existing traits. What the hell is the point of giving us extra damage against crippled enemies when the only source of cripple we have is with the new bow? Why do we have a trait that increases our damage from > 600 range if the majority of our weapons are melee? And why do we have a trait that inflicts cripple on knockback if the only reliable way to proc it is from a different bow trait (or the use of the very underwhelming shield)?

The traits you listed are meant to enhance the elite spec itself, which is to be expected. I don’t see what’s wrong about that. Also, bow’s barrage can knockback on target’s movement. The shield being underwhelming is also not DH’s fault.

Isn’t the goal of the specialization to enhance the base class though? What’s the point of using anything not related to the spec if there’s no synergy? It just makes the entire class completely divisive; you can either be a Guardian or a DH, but don’t bother trying to be both because building for one side of the equation only removes opportunities from the other side. It’s stupid and it’s counterintuitive. With the Chronomancer, interrupt builds are going to be more powerful than ever. With the Reaper, Terrormancer is going to be crazy with damage inflicted with chill, which is guaranteed alongside the fear that already does crazy damage. With DH, there’s no reason to take it unless you plan on using the longbow. It doesn’t work with anything else.

And no, the shield’s status is not related to the new spec. But it serves to reinforce my point that a trait that procs on knockback is not very useful on a Guardian.

RabbitUp.8294:

Black Box.9312:

RabbitUp.8294:

It’s sad that there is barely any gameplay related feedback fof the spec on the front page. You are either extremely satisfied with it, or only care for something minor as its name.

The gameplay feedback is there too. It’s in the Guardian subforum, and sadly it’s not really all that positive. Unlike the other two revealed so far, our spec has little to no synergy with the rest of the class. Also traps are terrible because they’re based on terrible mechanics. We got shafted.

But this thread is about the name, specifically. If you want to talk about gameplay, go do it in a different thread.

“It’s sad that there is barely any gameplay related feedback for the spec on the front page.”

I wasn’t talking about this specific thread. And if you take gameplay related feedback to the class forum, take this argument with you, too.

There IS a thread discussing the name there, too. And there were more, but most of them got merged into THIS one.

Also, if you look, there IS at least one thread in this subforum discussing the actual spec beyond just the name. Right now you’re just trying to belittle people for voicing their opinion for something that they are unsatisfied with. If you’re going to argue a point, please do so in a mature manner without resorting to passive-aggression.

It’s awful. The bow looks promising, but the traps are based on terrible mechanics and are just another source of area denial, which we absolutely did not need over mobile damage sources. The traitline has no synergy with any of our existing traits. What the hell is the point of giving us extra damage against crippled enemies when the only source of cripple we have is with the new bow? Why do we have a trait that increases our damage from > 600 range if the majority of our weapons are melee? And why do we have a trait that inflicts cripple on knockback if the only reliable way to proc it is from a different bow trait (or the use of the very underwhelming shield)?

Sure, guardian didn’t really need too many major buffs, but I still feel like we got ripped off. At the very least we could have gotten something cohesive instead of this random unrelated spec that doesn’t even have a worthwhile name.

RabbitUp.8294:

It’s sad that there is barely any gameplay related feedback fof the spec on the front page. You are either extremely satisfied with it, or only care for something minor as its name.

The gameplay feedback is there too. It’s in the Guardian subforum, and sadly it’s not really all that positive. Unlike the other two revealed so far, our spec has little to no synergy with the rest of the class. Also traps are terrible because they’re based on terrible mechanics. We got shafted.

But this thread is about the name, specifically. If you want to talk about gameplay, go do it in a different thread.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

I just get the impression that Robert has a much better grasp on what players want with these specializations than Karl does. If the rest of the specs look more like the Reaper and Chronomancer, we’ll have been completely shafted.

To be fair, I don’t think the specs are only worked on by a single dev at every stage of their development. We’ve only seen three and let’s be honest, we are biased for Guardian. I think that Of the three we have seen, the goal for Mesmer and Necro was to bring them up to the baseline of the other professions. Guardians IMO were already at that baseline.

I won’t deny being biased towards Guardian, but even so it kind of irks me that so far both the Mesmer and the Necro have gotten specs that are fully cohesive with the base class. By contrast, almost nothing in the Dragonhunter traitline complements the base Guardian skills and traits, and vice versa. Rather than receiving an extension of what we already have, they just tacked on a bow and traps, made the virtues more offensively oriented (and the block, which I think would really have made more sense as a reworked shield 4), and called it good without stopping to think about how well any of it would synergize with our current abilities.

Ranatoa.4869:

I will be sad if warriors get it, they already have a huge amount of CC negating abilities and besides, they are far to obvious a choice. With the way specs have been going I would say anyone could get it.

Pretty much this. If it goes to warriors, I might literally cry.

I just get the impression that Robert has a much better grasp on what players want with these specializations than Karl does. If the rest of the specs look more like the Reaper and Chronomancer, we’ll have been completely shafted.

Seeker seems like it’d be a good fit to me as well. Reminds me of the Seekers from Dragon Age, who search for demons and dark magic and bring the fight to them in an effort to cleanse the land.

Y’know, just like the “Dragonhunter”.

TyPin.9860:

Black Box.9312:

Tyreal.5230:

What difference does it make what the name is? Is this the type of crap people complain about now? Names of specializations? All the other things that could be discussed, like skills, combos, strategies, builds and theorycrafting; but the most viewed and discussed is about a name you are probably going to abbreviate anyways?

There are other things that people aren’t too thrilled about (traps, for example), but it’s much more feasible to expect a name change if it’s something people are unsatisfied with as opposed to having them implement an entirely different set of skills or traits.

Also not the point of Tyreal’s post.

Oh? Then what was it, because clearly you are so enlightened on the subject.

Toxsa.2701:

Black Box.9312:

Okay, as much as I hate the thought of traps, even I have to admit that this is quite a stretch. Invulnerability skills are a hard counter to pretty much any high damage/high cooldown skill.

If it were up to me, the only invulnerability skills in the game would have to be channeled like Renewed Focus. There’s nothing more obnoxious than someone being immune to everything while they unload their entire burst on you.

There’re only 2 classes that can do that, both with pretty long CD.
One is Ele’s earth focus 5, which is the selling point of the weapon, which kind of define it’s existence.
Another is mesmer’s distortion, but since mesmer has pretty low armor and pretty low sustain, it is justified to have it.

Other invulnerability, like mist form, elixir S all lock you down in empty bar, same as renew focus which they’re channeling.

There are SO many other things that ele focus is good for. Swirling Winds, Gale, Magnetic Wave, and even Comet can all be used to turn a fight in your favor. Saying that Obsidian Flesh is the defining skill of the weapon gives me the impression that you haven’t used it enough to really know any better. They could very easily change it to only partially mitigate damage, or require a channel, or at the very least render you unable to use skills while it’s up and focus would still be a very strong defensive weapon.

Distortion, on the other hand, is a different story. Blurred Frenzy I’d say is fine because it requires you to stand in place and channel the sword flurry, but the Distortion shatter I’d say should be the same, where it prevents you from using other skills when it’s up. It’s meant to be a defensive mechanic, and it’s completely unfair to be able to burst someone down while they can do nothing but sit there watching their attacks do 0 damage.

I’d personally argue this for every “pseudo-invulnerability” skill as well, such as Endure Pain and Signet of Stone. Hopefully the introduction of Resistance as a boon will make Berserker’s Stance a bit more fair, but any sort of 100% damage mitigation that allows the use of other skills and can’t be stripped while it’s up just kittens up balancing pretty badly.

Tyreal.5230:

What difference does it make what the name is? Is this the type of crap people complain about now? Names of specializations? All the other things that could be discussed, like skills, combos, strategies, builds and theorycrafting; but the most viewed and discussed is about a name you are probably going to abbreviate anyways?

There are other things that people aren’t too thrilled about (traps, for example), but it’s much more feasible to expect a name change if it’s something people are unsatisfied with as opposed to having them implement an entirely different set of skills or traits.

Okay, as much as I hate the thought of traps, even I have to admit that this is quite a stretch. Invulnerability skills are a hard counter to pretty much any high damage/high cooldown skill.

If it were up to me, the only invulnerability skills in the game would have to be channeled like Renewed Focus. There’s nothing more obnoxious than someone being immune to everything while they unload their entire burst on you.

Regardless, it’s probably less coding than the actual skills and mechanics, so it’s comparatively more feasible. And it’s not like we’re on the verge of release; there hasn’t even been an actual release date announced yet.

Obtena.7952:

Let’s be clear, I’ve not said I dislike the name. I’m neutral about it. Put it this way, good or bad, the name is the last place I want devs to pontificate and focus their efforts; give me good skills, traits and weapons instead.

My feedback is as follows:

1. I can understand where the name comes from based on the explanation Jon gave us.
2. I see how the tools fit the concept and address some concerns Guardians have had since day 1.
3. I understand that Anet has provided their logic behind the naming; it is not an invitation for collaboration with players into changing the spec name.
4. Whether I like it or not means little through the forum. I’m a customer, I speak with my money.

I think the reason why people are so insistent on the name being changed over any gripes about the spec itself is because the mechanics are more likely to be set in stone than just a simple set of text.

Obtena.7952:

dietzero.3514:

What are you talking about? Jon’s statement was just flat-out wrong. It did not make any sense. He used words incorrectly. He came across as condescending. He contradicted the movie.

Are my short sentences getting to you?

Jon’s idea (and his team’s) are wrong about what they want the concept of the Guardian elite spec to be? Wow. Perhaps he wasn’t condescending and straight forward enough considering people are implying they are absolute idiots for how wrong they are about how they want the concept developed.

Not necessarily that they’re wrong per sé, but just that their ideas contradict each other and don’t make sense.

Bash.7291:

Black Box.9312:

Bash.7291:

Obviously was a typo and was meant to be Vulnerability (i just got done reading the necro forums and the comments about needing stability for GS)

Who said anything about dragonhunter being back line support? we have backline support, its called staff/shouts. If anything DH is meant to be a more kite based damage build, that is effecient at killing enemies before they even get to you, hence the VoC change, the VoR change (which can be used to make distance) the traps, and the fact that you get a knockback on trait every 7 seconds with LB when enemies get close. So where does any of that sound like backline support?

As far as avoiding and dodging traps, we are getting the mechanics to help with that or already have them, Hammer alone with immob/warding will hold people in them, add in the snares from LB/ward from LB, and heck even the trap that does significant damage to enemies trying to leave it. Are some going to be dodged? sure are they will. will all of them with the tools we have? most likely not, since there are other abilities that need to be dodged as well. Once again, not you are not looking at the big picture of how this is going to fit into builds, and looking at it ONLY has LB and traps, nothing else.

And if i want to call people out that is my right, just like its your right to call me out. I do think its insane that people are doing most of the complaining regarding the name instead of the mechanics, and if you RP i get that, i understand that, but if not, its just a name, get over it.

“… the dragonhunter—a ferocious big-game hunter that specializes in ranged combat and back-line support.”
-Karl McLain, https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-dragonhunter-guardians-elite-specialization/

I’d take that as a sure sign that it’s at least partially intended to be a backline supporter. Which, let’s be honest, is a terrible fit for something close-range like traps, even if the traps themselves weren’t terrible. But, they will be, because eliminating ground targeting and forcing an activation time on them will ensure that no smart player will ever fall into one unless you plant it beforehand without them seeing it. And that’s provided that you don’t put it in an obvious location where they can just activate it by dodging over it without taking any damage. Oh, and that’s also neglecting how traps lack any sort of sustain or condition removal, which are kind of important.

As for the name, people have every right to complain about it. Some people just don’t like it and want it changed because it sounds stupid and is a poor fit for a guardian spec, even if they aren’t into RP. And yes, you also have the right to tell people to just get over the name. In a similar sense, you also have the freedom of speech required to tell a Jew to get over the Holocaust. But having that right doesn’t mean that using it for that purpose exempts you from being an kitten.

Considering you just compared me telling people to get over a name and look at the mechanics of a GAME to telling a race of people to get over one of the wost genocides in history… yeah… im done even considering responding to you now.

Not comparing the two at all. If that’s what you read from it, then you misinterpreted.

Bash.7291:

Obviously was a typo and was meant to be Vulnerability (i just got done reading the necro forums and the comments about needing stability for GS)

Who said anything about dragonhunter being back line support? we have backline support, its called staff/shouts. If anything DH is meant to be a more kite based damage build, that is effecient at killing enemies before they even get to you, hence the VoC change, the VoR change (which can be used to make distance) the traps, and the fact that you get a knockback on trait every 7 seconds with LB when enemies get close. So where does any of that sound like backline support?

As far as avoiding and dodging traps, we are getting the mechanics to help with that or already have them, Hammer alone with immob/warding will hold people in them, add in the snares from LB/ward from LB, and heck even the trap that does significant damage to enemies trying to leave it. Are some going to be dodged? sure are they will. will all of them with the tools we have? most likely not, since there are other abilities that need to be dodged as well. Once again, not you are not looking at the big picture of how this is going to fit into builds, and looking at it ONLY has LB and traps, nothing else.

And if i want to call people out that is my right, just like its your right to call me out. I do think its insane that people are doing most of the complaining regarding the name instead of the mechanics, and if you RP i get that, i understand that, but if not, its just a name, get over it.

“… the dragonhunter—a ferocious big-game hunter that specializes in ranged combat and back-line support.”
-Karl McLain, https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-dragonhunter-guardians-elite-specialization/

I’d take that as a sure sign that it’s at least partially intended to be a backline supporter. Which, let’s be honest, is a terrible fit for something close-range like traps, even if the traps themselves weren’t terrible. But, they will be, because eliminating ground targeting and forcing an activation time on them will ensure that no smart player will ever fall into one unless you plant it beforehand without them seeing it. And that’s provided that you don’t put it in an obvious location where they can just activate it by dodging over it without taking any damage. Oh, and that’s also neglecting how traps lack any sort of sustain or condition removal, which are kind of important.

As for the name, people have every right to complain about it. Some people just don’t like it and want it changed because it sounds stupid and is a poor fit for a guardian spec, even if they aren’t into RP. And yes, you also have the right to tell people to just get over the name. In a similar sense, you also have the freedom of speech required to tell a Jew to get over the Holocaust. But having that right doesn’t mean that using it for that purpose exempts you from being an kitten.

Probably nothing. I like the idea behind my Zeal/Radiance/Valor build, but I figure I’ll probably at least try trading out Zeal for DH just to get the bow.

Bash.7291:

Wow, is the sky falling or what… We got extra conditions, a long range option with some pretty freaking good damage, a trap that gives 25 STACKS OF STABILITY, much better soft CC (and whoever said immob is soft cc earlier, you need to learn what hard/soft CC is…) And update to virtues with some nifty effects, and some good condensing of traits that will really help along the way.

And seriously, can we STOP complaining about the name? Oh no, it isnt what you wanted for the name of your specialization… seriously? Its a specialization that focuses on traps and a long bow, and the main evil is… a dragon… traps… going after dragons… hmmm maybe a dragon hunter for a name actually makes sense as a name FOR WHAT THEY GAVE US.

I know its a game forum and i should expect complaining, but lord when 50% of it is about the name alone, is pretty sad. And considering that we havent even had our hands on the abilities to see how well they will actually work and how well they will fit together into a build, there is just way to much complaining and not enough thought of what might actually work with them.

/endrant

Were we watching the same video? I definitely didn’t see any traps granting 25 stacks of stability.

That aside, the bow is really the only truly good thing to come from this spec IMO. The traps suck because the poor mechanics will overshadow any benefits, the “extra condition” is one bleed stack per trap hit which again, relies on poor mechanics and isn’t going to be very effective once you realize that people will just dodge out of traps or avoid them altogether, the virtues are less support-oriented despite Anet’s aim to make a backline support spec, and the name is kittening terrible and should be criticized because it doesn’t fit what we actually have, not to mention the fact that it sounds like it came from someone’s second grade kid.

Disagreeing with the criticism does not entitle you to call others out for it. Much of it is very valid, and quite obviously there’s a very sizeable crowd that is not satisfied with the name at least.

RabbitUp.8294:

Leo G.4501:

RabbitUp.8294:

No, you just operate solely based on habit. A description like big game hunter, which tells you nothing more than the size of the game the hunter specializes in, simply can’t have any input on that hunter’s motives.

The descriptor of “big game hunter” tells you exactly the hunter’s motives: Game. Sport. Or Food. The definition of game in this context is:

a (1) : animals under pursuit or taken in hunting; especially : wild animals hunted for sport or food (2) : the flesh of game animals
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game

RabbitUp.8294:

The archetype of the witch hunter has been recycled a lot, each time adapted to different kinds of evil, like vampire hunter, werewolf hunter, ghost hunter, demon hunter, etc. So, does it have to be dark and spooky to be acceptable?

Dragonhunter is a hunter that hunts dragons and their minions to purge Tyria from their evil.

Well, witches aren’t particularly spooky, but as your last quoted sentence indicates, the prey likely has to be evil if it’s to qualify as purging Tyria of evil. This does not mesh with the concept of “big game hunting” as the motive isn’t to hunt for sport or resources but instead for personal preservation.

The context contradicts. Are you hunting game or evil? Are you hunting evil to USE their resources and turn them against them? No? Then that evil is not game and game is not evil.

You know what would work best for this situation? Coming up with a NEW word that the devs could define themselves, with pinpoint accuracy instead of dealing with all this outside context.

You add this context yourself and say it’s contradictory.

Hunters in general hunt game for food, profit or sport. It’s not an exclusive characteristic of big game hunters.

If you insist on assigning “hunter” its proper definition, then the argument that everyone hunts dragons is rendered completely invalid.

It’s pointless to argue if you use different definitions for each instance of the word.

Well, they’re both adequate standalone arguments, and I don’t think anyone here is trying to argue both at the same time, and even if they were the two don’t cancel each other out. So take your pick. Either way it shows that the current name is not a good match.

coglin.1867:

Alice.5360:

Reaper is not two words mashed together.

As a matter of fact it is two words mashed together.

er : person occupationally connected with <furrier> <lawyer> …………one that does or performs (a specified action) <batter> —sometimes added to both elements of a compound <builder-upper>

reap : to cut with a sickle, scythe, or reaping machine

When the two words are smashed together, it means “one who reaps, or one who uses a reaper”

Just one more example of uninformed posters, making uninformed claims, I guess.

“-er” is a suffix, not a word. Please don’t lecture others about improper grammar if you do not understand it yourself.

RabbitUp.8294:

Black Box.9312:

You’re still just mashing two contradictory themes together. Yes, it’s possible to combine two different aspects to create a name like “Dragonhunter”. No, that does not mean that it fits the object being named, let alone that it makes sense at all.

No, you just operate solely based on habit. A description like big game hunter, which tells you nothing more than the size of the game the hunter specializes in, simply can’t have any input on that hunter’s motives.

The concept of the witch hunter has been recycled a lot, and even adopted to different kinds of evil, like vampire hunter, werewolf hunter, etc. So, does it have to be dark and spooky to be acceptable?

Dragonhunter is a hunter that hunts big game to purge Tyria from their evil. That’s all.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t agree. It’s way too far-fetched for me.

Sorin.4310:

lordkrall.7241:

And yet Dragonhunter makes sense for a Guardian as well, seeing as one of the parts of being a hunter is hunting down dangerous beasts that threatens the people/community. Which is exactly what the Guardian is all about.

Yes I can’t wait to hunt down bubbles with my longbow and ground targeted point-blank range traps as a dragon hunter….

FTFY

RabbitUp.8294:

Black Box.9312:

RabbitUp.8294:

Black Box.9312:

A “big game hunter” gives the impression of hunting for pure sport

All real-life hunters do that, regardless of the size of the game they specialize in. The concept of the witch hunter is already in violation of that definition.

That does nothing but reinforce my point. It can’t be both.

No, it doesn’t reinforce your point at all. If you can accept that witch hunters, who don’t hunt for sport, can still be called hunters, you have no base to oppose the use of the same descriptor by dragon hunters.

They are not called witch hunters, because they don’t hunt witches, but “big game” and that’s where the second title comes from.

You’re still just mashing two contradictory themes together. Yes, it’s possible to combine two different aspects to create a name like “Dragonhunter”. No, that does not mean that it fits the object being named, let alone that it makes sense at all.

lordkrall.7241:

And yet Dragonhunter makes sense for a Guardian as well, seeing as one of the parts of being a hunter is hunting down dangerous beasts that threatens the people/community. Which is exactly what the Guardian is all about.

No, it doesn’t. It’s meant to be “evocative of a medieval witch hunter”, but it fails on that front because it also carries the theme of being a “big game hunter”, which is nothing like a witch hunter, and even further from how a Guardian is supposed to feel. The Reaper also, by the looks of it, is bringing something new to the table, and hopefully won’t be a simple rehash of an existing class and build like the Guardian is getting.

lordkrall.7241:

So… how is Reaper any less generic than the Dragonhunter, which people raged like mad about being so generic?

It’s a little boring, maybe, but it makes sense, given the context of the class, and it appears to be more of an extension of the necromancer, instead of just throwing warrior mechanics at its face and calling it a Dragonbrawler.

RabbitUp.8294:

Black Box.9312:

A “big game hunter” gives the impression of hunting for pure sport

All real-life hunters do that, regardless of the size of the game they specialize in. The concept of the witch hunter is already in violation of that definition.

That does nothing but reinforce my point. It can’t be both.

Xaylin.1860:

Arken.3725:

I suggested the same thing earlier about doubling the cool down Xaylin. I honestly think that would be the only necessary change. Maybe a small CD reduction of the #5

I know. I’ve been a good boy and watched the video.

The cooldown on #5 indeed is insanely long. However, so is it’s power. Torn on that one.

I’d honestly much rather have the damage nerfed if that means we can have the cooldown lowered to compensate. If I use it, it’ll be for the CC, not the damage.

Totbot.4583:

Really?

Dragonhunter addressed issues people actually had with Guardian. It gave us a long range weapon, potential condition damage, and soft CC with Cripple.

While the Necro spec looks cool, it hasn’t addressed a single concern the Necro community has.

Here’s something I pulled from another thread regarding this.

Black Box.9312:

It seems like Anet is very wishy-washy about the spec in general, honestly. They want it to be a backline support, but they’re making the virtues less supportive, and they’re trying to justify an obviously divisive name for it by saying that it’s inspired by witch hunters who actively seek to purify evil by destroying dragons, but yet it’s still supposed to be supportive and stay in the backlines and let other people do the grunt work, but then they’re giving us traps that aren’t ground targeted that you can only drop right in front of you, even though you’re supposed to be on the backlines and also actively chasing the enemy to vanquish evil.

That’s why I’m pretty peeved about the whole thing. It’s very scatterbrained and just feels poorly planned out.

So at best, they kind of gave us what we wanted? We got a more reliable ranged weapon, but it’s certainly not a support-oriented spec like they’re claiming, and traps are terrible regardless of what role you play. Furthermore, the entire Dragonhunter spec feels like it came from the minds of at least 3 or 4 different people who refused to compromise and just threw their input in it individually. There are so many contrasting elements to it that it lacks any decent amount of cohesion, both with the base Guardian class as well as itself, even.

As for the Reaper, we haven’t seen any of the shouts yet. All we have detail on to go from right now is one new GS skill and one new Death Shroud skill. In the video it looked like GS could be getting a pull skill as well, but we don’t have any skill facts to determine if it has other effects alongside the pull. I’d say wait to judge whether or not it fills the gap for what Necro players need until we get some details on the skills and traits.

Nephrite.6954:

Chromemancer

New elite: 24" Spinners – You enter your sick new ride. All melee attacks now miss you because you are now too high up for them to reach you. Lasts 10 seconds. 180 sec CD.

RabbitUp.8294:

dietzero.3514:

Anyone ever work out if the Dragonhunter is a big game hunter or a witch hunter type? Anet said both, even though that is not possible.

It’s both, I don’t see how the two are incompatible. Witch hunter in spirit and motivation (purge all evil), and big game hunters in method (some of their skills look like electric fences even).

The two themes are contradictory. A witch hunter (in the less offensive fictional sense) has a certain sense of fanaticism when it comes to purging evil from the world for the benefit of all things good. They feel as though it is their sworn duty to eradicate these threats in the world wherever they may be.

A “big game hunter” gives the impression of hunting for pure sport, and has nothing to do with good and evil, light and dark. There’s no intrinsic motivational drive for it, only “hey, I feel like killing a big animal/monster just for fun.”

These two themes clash with each other so hard that it’s a wonder how Anet managed to haphazardly meld them together in the first place. Is it one, or is it the other? The issue that I have (as well as many others here I’m assuming) is that if we go with the first theme, the name feels like it doesn’t fit, and if we go with the latter theme, it feels like far too much of a stretch to be compatible with the current guardian theme, which is based upon the idea of using protective light magic alongside heavy armor and weaponry.

Toxsa.2701:

anduriell.6280:

The traps is being useless from ever. Although those DragonHater traps looks amazing and the effects are great, the mechanics itself are crap. In any trap.
First it depends on so many variables that is almost impossible to get the great numbers you are imagining.
Second you are thinking about numbers they are not yet there. Until the class is balanced there is no point to talk about 300K damage lol

I foretell that most DragonHaters will be PewPew Medi-Guards sharing their hate from distance.
About the true shot. RF is a 10 impacts attack. That means when you realize you are been targeted by it, even if you didn’t see the ranger you can counter it. True Shot is a 14K shot + 400 burning of pure hate that will run across you and everyone else (remember is a piercing shot) if you aren’t lucky enough to be watching the DragonHater just in the moment of shooting.
At least the could put a very flamboyant and unique animation like the Maul has, but it doesn’t, it looks almost as any other AA.

I think DH’s traps work entirely different from ranger’s trap. From the video, it works much like wells, but last for way longer periods than ranger’s traps, and tick many times.

The only reason why traps are useless are not because of the mechanic, but the fact that old traps’ effect are designed useless against zerg to begin with due to target limit and all condition base damage. Otherwise it’s actually better than wells that you cannot see traps while you can clearly see wells and dodge through them.

Wells are ground targeted and do not have an activation time beyond the casting animation. I’ll take that over a trap any day of the week.

Einlanzer.1627:

Jasher.6580:

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

Jon, I love you. I really do. You are one of my favorite people associated with this game. That’s a lot coming from me because I do not like people. Nevertheless, I like you.

I digress…

Jon… I think the name sucks. A lot of people don’t like it either. Is there any way that you could possibly change the name?

For the sake of the community. Do it for us. Do it for the people.

Yours sincerely,

Jasher “The Slasher”

You just don’t understand it. lol.

(Takes 10 seconds to draw a kittenty stick figure with terrible proportioning and calls it a masterpiece.)

“Dude, that art sucks.”

“NO, YOU JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND IT!” (cries in corner)

anduriell.6280:

The traps is being useless from ever. Although those DragonHater traps looks amazing and the effects are great, the mechanics itself are crap. In any trap.
First it depends on so many variables that is almost impossible to get the great numbers you are imagining.
Second you are thinking about numbers they are not yet there. Until the class is balanced there is no point to talk about 300K damage lol

Exactly. It doesn’t matter how appealing the effects of each trap look, because the fact remains that the actual mechanics of traps make them very lackluster in a fast-paced, mobile game like this.

Sytherek.7689:

Snow.2048:

My final issue with the name at this point is how it applies better to other professions. You could easily say new Ranger spec: Dragon Hunter, new Warrior spec: Dragon Hunter, without anyone blinking an eye (still some muttering about it being generic and unimaginative I’m sure but what can you do). These are profs who you can see hunting Dragons for a living, being an offensive force against Dragons. Guardians protect others, are pillars of strength and virtue that you can look up upon, not obsessive hunters who will stoop to anything to kill their prey, as I personally assume a Dragon Hunter would.

The “Dragonhunter” sobriquet indicates a worrisome homogenization of the classes. When I think “Guardian”, I think “Protector” and “Defender”, not “Aggressor.” In my mind, this heralds a shift toward making all the classes interchangable and generic, giving each some aspects of the others. Taken to an extreme, what point is there to classes if they all do the same things?

I’m expecting the Ranger “druid” to be a healer/buffer, taking on aspects of the Guardian.

The new Chronomancer gave me great hope that classes would gain enhancements reflecting their base design.

The Dragonhunter erased that optimism.

But we’ll see.

Exactly how I feel. They could have easily given us a longbow without giving it a very ranger-like theme. Specializations are supposed to add new depth to the classes, not make them overlap with each other.

Staves are only designed for magical combat? Fine, pretend that the Revenant is channeling magical energy into the tip of his staff, which he then uses to bludgeon his enemy from melee range.

Problem solved.

Shifu.4321:

Tarsius.3170:

to be honest I think the traps will be game breaking/changing for t1 WvW and will most like see some kind of nerf before release. Zergs already have a large composition of Guardians and if they’re all dropping traps left-right-and-centre it’ll be pretty insane. ( a dozen 6-8k dmg spike traps parked behind a gate? – you have to run through both edges ).

If we’re lucky it’ll stop mindless zerging and promote more careful tactics – forcing smaller suicide squads – if we’re unlucky it’ll be unmitigated chaos.

In other game modes they are fine however – and will probably see limited use.

That 6-8k damage will be reduced quite a significant amount when 3k+ armor frontline run over them. We already have a version of that with power necro wells, which can do comparable damage to low armor targets.

The advantage of necro wells is that they’re targetable when traited, which means you can drop them on the backline, where they’ll be most effective. You can also use them while kiting, or while fighting a running battle. They’re extremely versatile skills which can be used both offensively and defensively.

On the other hand, the main problem I see with traps is that they’re too situational. You need an obvious chokepoint and an enemy willing to go in guns blazing for them to be effective. In an open area where enemies can hit from multiple directions, you basically have to guess where they’re coming from. Setup time also means they’ll be ineffective during a running battle, which is probably 80% of WvW fights.

And with a loooong cooldown (almost 33% longer than your average well), this means that the enemy commander would just wait for the trap durations to end before pushing. Best case scenario, you get a chokepoint, an enemy who didn’t see the traps being planted, and a nice timely CC to get them right in the middle of the trap area. But I’d wager it won’t happen often.

This is pretty much how I feel about traps. They’re just bad skills in general, let alone the fact that they’re something the class did not need at all.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Apparently so, because it’s not that hard to get. Dragon Hunter. I’m going to guess and say … has something to do with hunting dragons. Where youi are wrong is that it’s not a highly complex theme. It’s brain dead easy, like most other things in this game. People just trying to overthink it because they don’t like the name.

But how does their aim of a “backline support” spec match up with their idea of a “big game hunter that actively seeks the dragons to destroy them”? It’s completely contradictory.

Who cares? Just like the name, it doesn’t matter. You’re overthinking completely academic points. The relevant question is: do I get skills that are worth having? I don’t care what what it’s called or what contradiction in the concept exists.

The lowdown is pretty simple. Anet wants the new specialization concept to be traps, long range, etc… to give us options in PVP/WvW where we had some gaps with mobility/long range, etc… The traits and skills do that so that’s a win if you ask me. The name, or whatever cartoony theme that’s attached to those things does not matter. Call it whatever you want, the skills/traits change zero with exception for balancing. No argument you’re going to make is going to convince Mr. Peters (the guy telling us its a pretty done deal) that it NEEDS to change.

I care, because the name is just one of a host of things that makes the spec completely self-contradictory.

Maybe my arguments won’t sway Jon or the rest of Anet, but I’m kitten well going to tell them what I think anyway, because I think they’re completely off base with this entire spec, including the name.

RabbitUp.8294:

They said that the new weapons are exclusive to the elite spec that introduced them. So, no Chrono, no shield.

They didn’t say whether we will be able to choose 2 or more elite specs at the same in the future (like Dueling/Chronomancer/Disco Diva), though, and it’s too early to discuss that.

I think they actually did confirm that you’d be limited to one elite spec at a time in the original specialization reveal stream.

Artaz.3819:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

But I dont get it…with longbow we are supposed to be backliners but our virtues need to be in almost melee range to work especially justice. Nah I’ll just wait for expansion to go out in 2016 to try it out

Good observation. But I guess that’s why we get the leap on Resolve so we can get closer.

The radius of the new Resolve will only be 1/5 of the current one, so it’s not really going to be any good for team support.

Not that anyone will use it for anything other than the mobility, anyway.

AoE 3s immobilize when traited

I meant mobility as in both an escape and as a gap closer. I’d figured the immobilize trait to fall under the latter.

Toxsa.2701:

LMAO…
That blade traps will destroy an entire zerg when you place mutiple of them on grounds.

It lasts for so long, triggers on infinite targets, and tick like 3k damage per walk through. It’d potentially does 300k damage to a whole zerg with one placement. Imagine having 10 Guardians and place 10 of them. Instant spike. Even if they don’t stack in same location, just place them around WVW choke point and you’ll see alot of dead bodies.

10 secs reveals, good aoe damage, and 25 stacks of vulnerable to 5 targets instantly. Way to kill all thieves in PVP. The damage is very good too.

If you say these powerful traps are underwhelming, then go check ranger’s worthless traps. You Guardians know so little about other classes, that you don’t know those skills are actually good..

I’ve actually played trap ranger, thank you very much. It’s not the effects of the skills, but rather the design of the skills themselves that will make them terrible.

Medi guard already hard counters thieves. Reveal is cool and all, but it’s unnecessary for a medi guard build comp.

Aaaaaaaaaand zergs are zergs. You can use almost anything that isn’t single target in a zerg and be successful. Not really much in terms of balance there.

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

But I dont get it…with longbow we are supposed to be backliners but our virtues need to be in almost melee range to work especially justice. Nah I’ll just wait for expansion to go out in 2016 to try it out

Good observation. But I guess that’s why we get the leap on Resolve so we can get closer.

The radius of the new Resolve will only be 1/5 of the current one, so it’s not really going to be any good for team support.

Not that anyone will use it for anything other than the mobility, anyway.

I think getting rid of one of the first two minor traits in Valor in favor of a movement speed bonus would be optimal. We’re already pigeonholed into it with every build anyway, so we might as well get something that’s less kittenty than aegis at 50% HP and recharged VoC upon rally.