Guild Wars 2

Honestly, I’ve always felt that GS is lackluster in PvP. The new immobilize on VoJ should make it more worthwhile, but other than that it’s just too easy to avoid. And the changes we were going to get suddenly being butchered doesn’t really help us either.

Amins.3710:

ventusthunder.5067:

Zeal vs. Radiance is a pretty close call, before today I was saying Radiance all the way, but then it took two very, very nasty hits. That’ll have to be determined in game, and Honor has inched its way back into the discussion, in my book at least.

2?

my 2/5/6/0/1 build just lost 23% +dmg.

GG.

More than that, if you count the vulnerability you’ll no longer get from blinds. All of my hopes for the spec changes on guardian are now dead.

Drennon.7190:

quaniesan.8497:

Drennon.7190:

You act like guardian will be unplayable now.

That’s your own conjecture. Mesmer or elem got buffed as if they are currently unplayable. So why not guardians?

Mesmer rarely sees top tier play and Ele is falling out because of shoutbow doing a better job. Can you name a time period where guardian wasn’t meta? Please inform me.

Let’s not kid ourselves here. The only thing keeping medi guard “meta” is the fact that it counters current thief builds so well, which is really kind of moot anyway when you’re against a thief that’s smart enough to outmaneuver you. One good player playing well with a decent build doesn’t make the decent build suddenly amazing.

Drennon.7190:

This is comic gold. Oh the sky is falling right into the guardian forums apparently. You act like guardian will be unplayable now.

I already don’t play either of my guardians anymore. After the update, I’d planned on changing that.

But now I have no reason to do that anymore.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Unless they’re planted beforehand out of sight, it’s not going to matter if they’re invisible.

BINGO! That’s usually how a trap works and I’m betting that’s the intention. Even if it is planted at someone’s feet and someone knows it, traps can still be used smartly to control area.

Until they dodge over it. And then your trap is useless and you die because you have no sustain and condi removal.

Fun.

To be fair, a 1200 radius was kind of excessive, but I’m also really upset by the changes. Pretty much every buff that people were hyped for either got slashed or completely reversed into a nerf.

I saw the finalized version of the changes and laughed. They basically took all of the buffs that people were excited about and did a complete 180, either making them near insignificant or outright nerfing them (i.e. block procs). They still seem to think that the shield trait is good even for people that are willing to kitten themselves with the shield, they still think that 3s of retal on a 30s cooldown is good, and we are still going to be the only class with no access to +25% movement speed.

I’m so done. No more guardian hype. It’s all a sham.

Drayos.8759:

1) longbow looks awesome, why insult it?

2) traps arnt “situational” the enemy cannot see the traps so they cannot be just Easily “dodged 99% of the time” u place them before fights… Not only when the enemies ontop of you.

3) u have no idea what they meta will be in HoT so how can u comment on what it will provide in the meta?…. trap ranger was once meta, it looks like its coming back into strength now also, so obviously traps are looking rather good in the upcoming meta putting Longbow straight into meta on its release.

theres 0 reason to be insulting and putting this new specialization down, traps do not suck, just currently they are not in meta, but then again neither are rangers so therefore how would it be? theres 0 proof to it not being viable and also theres nothing to say how Dragonhunter will fair in the new expansion..

try to actually WAIT to see what happens rather then QQing on it before its even in beta.

Sorry, but traps DO suck. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see an animation and know that there’s a trap placed at that person’s feet. Unless they’re planted beforehand out of sight, it’s not going to matter if they’re invisible.

This is what I run. It’s nice to be able to substitute in Valkyrie gear because of how easy it is to get a high crit chance while using RHS.

zinkz.7045:

Black Box.9312:

zinkz.7045:

That is some nice empty rhetoric you got there, try again when you have an actual response.

That’s all that I need to say. You have to figure things out for yourself; I’m not going to just give it all away.

That is some nice empty rhetoric you got there, try again when you have an actual response.

Your big wall post is literally all QQ and zero attempt to learn counterplay. If this is really all you have as a response, then I guess you’re beyond help.

I think, all things considered, an instant cast is all it really needs to make it competitive. Yes, it doesn’t block like Shelter does, but with Smiter’s Boon and Monk’s Focus together alongside it you’re looking at a pretty significant base heal from Litany, the double proc of Monk’s Focus, AND the damage dealt from Smiter’s Boon, along with 8 seconds of fury to keep the damage up for even more sustain. If you can avoid CC well enough, it’d probably be possible to outheal the damage that would be blocked by Shelter anyway.

But it needs to be instant cast. The “no interrupt counterplay” argument is complete BS when you have a skill like Withdraw that is instant cast AND provides a free evade.

zinkz.7045:

That is some nice empty rhetoric you got there, try again when you have an actual response.

That’s all that I need to say. You have to figure things out for yourself; I’m not going to just give it all away.

MattyP.6954:

skowcia.8257:

MattyP.6954:

Being able to hot-swap utilities in combat provides a level of flexibility that no other classes have, so of course the have to balance by removing flexibility in other places. It’s a new class, but it isn’t supposed to be better than any of the other classes.

Yeah, but what if you end up with other abilities that are useless in x situation?

For example Shiro most likely will get shadowsteps – why you would use that with hammer weapon where you want to stay at max range? Unless it ground targeted and can be used to escape you already ends up with useless utility. There are many examples like it. Mallyx pain absord..yeah cool for teamfights, whats about solo settings? Useless.

Then create your builds around legends and weapons that work together for the gametype you’re playing. Also, skills are only useless insofar as you can’t find a use for them—that doesn’t mean that they don’t actually have a use.

The problem is that each weapon set looks to be so specifically tailored to a certain playstyle that matches a specific legend that no matter how you build your Revenant you’re going to be stuck with a weapon that doesn’t synergize with one of your two legends.

zinkz.7045:

Black Box.9312:

zinkz.7045:

phokus.8934:

Nothing to see here, folks. Just another person who wants easy mode kills with no effort.

When I want easy mode kills with no effort I log out my shatter mes and go on my faceroll medi guard…

That’s funny, because I often swap to my CI interrupt mesmer and eat medi guards for breakfast.

Not really, as your CI mesmer is still vastly more unforgiving than the faceroll that is medi guard.

Where you can for example facetank a full condi bomb and clear it, assuming you get hit in the first place and aren’t saved by passive aegis BS, any damage you take from facetanking that condi burst, can then be healed up by BS passive healing that heals for 30 less than a master trait considered good on engi (and also has a 1.6k emergency heal, + 800 hp in regen + retal + removes three condies, instant of course, because you can never have enough skilless i-win buttons on a guard that do way too much for the input or thought required), plus the BS 2k uninterruptable heals on instant medi skills (apparently counterplay for your opponent or having to think on medi guard are not design considerations).

Then if that isn’t enough you can then use the brainless heal that is only susceptible to the few skills that can ignore a block, apparently positioning or covering your heal are only for classes like necro, mesmer, etc.

After that just instant teleport, start whacking away with the hammer, oh look your opponent is chilled from a passive proc that has no counterplay as it occurs on crit (also unblockable, so even someone having the “good fortune” to block when it procs does not stop this passive BS), goes well with the passive burning procs with no counterplay.

Medi guard has ridiculous sustain, ridiculous survivability, passive procs/healing and a kittenton of instant skills with no real counterplay, it is a fine example of everything that is wrong with this game, where skilless faceroll builds with minimal risk and lots of reward like medi guard, shoutbow, turret engi (they at least nerfed that crap), etc are the standard.

There’s plenty of counterplay. You just obviously haven’t found it, and decided to kitten about your failure here instead of looking into some pretty glaring flaws of the build.

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Hunter.4783:

Yet you must agree changing that to a minor trait is silly to say the least

Not really, no. And it’s hardly worth complaining about in comparison to Guardians, who get Aegis on demand as a baseline boon.

the maybe you agree to the fact that is contraproductive to making other ele traitlines more attractive?

Perhaps, but we currently have the same problem with Valor, Warriors currently have the same problem with Discipline, Mesmers currently have the same problem with Dueling, AND Engineers currently have the same problem with Explosives (although that will probably be fixed when Grenadier is made baseline). It’s really not an Elementalist-specific issue.

Hunter.4783:

Black Box.9312:

Hunter.4783:

Yet you must agree changing that to a minor trait is silly to say the least

Not really, no. And it’s hardly worth complaining about in comparison to Guardians, who get Aegis on demand as a baseline boon.

And yet eles are in a better spot in sPVP right now and equally as good in PVE, so the point is moot.

They change a GM worth trait into a minor one, which is a slap in the face to every class which has to make a choice about traits. heck the whole point of traits is so you HAVE to make a choice, not be able to get all the good ones at the same time.

It’s NOT a GM worthy trait. That’s the whole point. You’re making a very big deal out of something that’s really not that significant. We’re getting a bigger buff with Might of the Protector being tripled in effectiveness than they are with Elemental Attunement becoming a minor trait.

Have you SEEN what Mesmer is getting with the specialization rework? It’s getting arguably the biggest buff of the bunch as far as core specializations go.

Yeah, I’ve been thinking along these lines as well. From what I’ve heard from guildmates that have played through the betas, mace/axe didn’t fit very well with Jalis and hammer didn’t work very well with Mallyx. It just seems weird to me that they’d tie weapon sets so specifically to certain playstyles that reflect each legend, but remove the weapon swap so you’re essentially pigeonholed into specializing in only one of your two legends. It gives me the impression that most builds will have one effective legend, and a second one that’s pretty much only used when the other skills are on cooldown.

zinkz.7045:

phokus.8934:

Nothing to see here, folks. Just another person who wants easy mode kills with no effort.

When I want easy mode kills with no effort I log out my shatter mes and go on my faceroll medi guard…

That’s funny, because I often swap to my CI interrupt mesmer and eat medi guards for breakfast.

Hunter.4783:

Yet you must agree changing that to a minor trait is silly to say the least

Not really, no. And it’s hardly worth complaining about in comparison to Guardians, who get Aegis on demand as a baseline boon.

nearlight.3064:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

nearlight.3064:

The OP sounds like he literally only wants this because he has eternity. Theres already enough GS favoritism in this game.

Sounds like someone’s jeaaaaalous. :p

In all seriousness, I also think that the class needs dual swords, pretty much for the same reasons.

Okay, then I hope the elite rev spec gets to use warhorn, because I have howler, and I think it would be a perfect fit for revenant, since they can call the mists by blowing into their horns! It makes perfect sense and it would benefit me too so much!

Cool story bro. Not everyone is an kitten that doesn’t want other people to have something even when it has no effect on them personally.

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Elemental Attunement really isn’t even that good on its own. The only things that make it worthwhile are the protection and the condi clear from the regen if you’re running Cleansing Water. It was a silly idea for it to be competing with GM traits in the first place, if you ask me.

well thats kind of a downplay. pretty sure that even if it would only grant protection and regen people would still take it. It counters their core weakness of a low hp pool and light armor in one trait. on top it synergizes – as you said – extremely well with cleansing water.

I also think as a GM trait it is silly, yet making it a minor is just sick. you should have to sacrafice some choice for that kind of defense or even that level of QoL. Earth, Water, Arcane will be the go to build anyways. so you toss in rock solid and eles are unstopable for the most part.

The trait has virtually nothing to do with why d/d ele is in the current meta, though. Even without it, the regen can be obtained through traited cantrip use or after receiving a critical hit, and the protection can be gained through one of the 3 auras that the setup has access to. And even then, the reason why the build is so powerful is because of the combination of sustain through trickle heals and the damage built up by might stacking. Access to boons on swap is really just an added convenience.

Ranael.6423:

Have you played an ele recently ? Do you really think they don’t swap attunement and only auto attack? Have you ever tried to take an ele and stack might and fury for your group by just pressing 11111 ?

To be fair, staff ele in PvE is essentially camping fire and spamming 1 and 2, with the occasional 5 when it’s off cooldown. Might is stacked up beforehand.

Not exactly a complex rotation.

Elemental Attunement really isn’t even that good on its own. The only things that make it worthwhile are the protection and the condi clear from the regen if you’re running Cleansing Water. It was a silly idea for it to be competing with GM traits in the first place, if you ask me.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Nerf Merciful Intervention Kappa

WTB Kappa emote that can be used outside of Twitch.

Sagat.3285:

Black Box.9312:

What is the point of actively not wanting GS on the Revenant? If you’re not a fan of the idea, then don’t use it, dummies.

It can take a role we wanted another weapon to use, look at hammer vs staff and mace stands out as well, I’m not anti GS activist I just don’t want rev’s GS doing the same thing as every other GS.

It probably wouldn’t though? Every GS skillset we’ve seen so far differs greatly from any of the others. Warrior GS is about mobility and DPS, Guardian GS specializes in area control, Ranger GS is defensive, and Mesmer GS is a RANGED weapon. Obviously there can be some overlap, and it’s more important for it to fill a role that the Revenant does not have with any of the current weapons, but even so it shouldn’t be that difficult to make it unique.

spoj.9672:

Black Box.9312:

NikeEU.7690:

What you find out when attempting to solo or duo a lot of this “faceroll content” is that it isn’t that easy afterall and if you don’t play well you die very quickly in Berserker gear.

Of course it’s supposed to be difficult to solo/duo, because the content is meant to be balanced around 5 man teams. IMO the fact that dungeon content can be done solo or duo at all suggests that it really isn’t as challenging as it should be.

Exactly which means the problem isnt berserker. Its the difficulty level. Fractals bosses at scale 50 are much better balanced for 5 man groups.

My point with that earlier argument is that you can’t have the argument that “gear isn’t the problem” while also badmouthing players that use suboptimal gear and look down on them as if the gear they’re using is the reason why your dungeon run is going bad. It’s a ridiculous double standard. If gear IS the problem, then fine. If it’s NOT the problem, then why fling kitten at each other over it in the first place?

Diovid.9506:

Black Box.9312:

What is the point of actively not wanting GS on the Revenant? If you’re not a fan of the idea, then don’t use it, dummies.

Well.. Them getting a greatsword reduces the chance that they will get a different weapon (i.e. they get a limited number of weapons so either they get a greatsword or they get some other weapon). In addition, some people feel that there are too many greatswords wielded in the game already. So it’s not as easy as just not using them.

So what? Lots of people have iPhones, but does that have any bearing on what phone you choose to buy? No. If you don’t like other people using iPhones, though, you’re just gonna have to get over it. The amount of self-proclaimed entitlement that comes with a mindset like that astounds me.

NikeEU.7690:

What you find out when attempting to solo or duo a lot of this “faceroll content” is that it isn’t that easy afterall and if you don’t play well you die very quickly in Berserker gear.

Of course it’s supposed to be difficult to solo/duo, because the content is meant to be balanced around 5 man teams. IMO the fact that dungeon content can be done solo or duo at all suggests that it really isn’t as challenging as it should be.

What is the point of actively not wanting GS on the Revenant? If you’re not a fan of the idea, then don’t use it, dummies.

60s on JI? Hahahaha, no.

Yeah, I only used shield back when you could keep the bubble without having to channel it, and even then it was used sparingly. It needs a decent block and a removal of the channel requirement for the bubble to be of any worth to me.

Toxsa.2701:

Azure.8670:

I kinda like this though. Let the Rev be the defense class, Guardian really isn’t anyway. It’s a high dps Class that excels and mitigating damage for those around it.

And then Shiro Legend comes in and beats all zerk classes lol..

I’ve been having the feeling that the DPS legend (probably Shiro) is going to essentially function like a Thief, but just be tankier.

I’m kind of hoping for this too. If not I’m not TOO worried, though. I should hopefully at least be able to slap Bolt on and call it good.

Drennon.7190:

Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"

You’re missing the point. A thief should not be able to steal an ability that we don’t even have.

Cyninja.2954:

Black Box.9312:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Black Box.9312:

My point is that it should never be easier to run a 5 zerker party as opposed to a 4 zerker and 1 non-zerker party, and yet that is exactly the case, particularly with bosses like the CoF P1 Slave Driver that essentially punish players that do not provide enough party DPS to end the fight before a wipe. Sure, it makes sense for a run to take longer with less damage, but it should never be more difficult at the same time.

Why think that? Given the nature of glass gear, it makes perfect sense for the addition of one member who is under-contributing toward the intended tactic to increase difficulty. All that does is underscore the potential for risk in all-out damage and the thin margin between success and failure in some glass groups.

Look at the flip side. All-clerics parties have a very easy time. There’s even a video showing such a party doing an Arah path without using dodge at all. I believe one of the participants already linked it in this thread, but here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

How many players not contributing to a sustain tactic would it take to make that experience harder? I doubt that anyone tested that. I also very much doubt one player not adding to the tactic would do it because there’s less risk in a sustain build.

You’re missing the point entirely. If defensive gear is meant to be easymode, then why does it make things harder in some cases than running with a full zerker party, which is supposed to be the most difficult team composition to run with? It makes sense for it to make runs last longer, but it should NEVER be more difficult. The difficulty of any given encounter based on gear used by each party member should scale in a purely linear fashion, with full defensive gear being the easiest, and full offensive gear being the hardest. It should NOT be harder to run with 4 zerker 1 cleric than with 5 zerker, in any case. No exceptions.

No. Who ever said full defensive gear was supposed to be easier? Where do people get this notion of tanky = easy?!

Full defensive gear does exactly 1 thing, it makes you tankier. It has no desired effect on how hard or easy content is.

Now if endgame content damage scales so high that this extra protection is of no help, well tough noodles. Do you see zerker players complain about tanky builds being able to run through 80% of the pve game without ever having to dodge or pay attention to what is happening around them? No.

Yes, it is supposed to be easier. Because if it’s not, you have the current predicament where it is literally of no value to the game. How do we fix that? Either make it easier to use, or make it more effective than zerker gear. And doing the latter would be silly, don’t you agree?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Black Box.9312:

My point is that it should never be easier to run a 5 zerker party as opposed to a 4 zerker and 1 non-zerker party, and yet that is exactly the case, particularly with bosses like the CoF P1 Slave Driver that essentially punish players that do not provide enough party DPS to end the fight before a wipe. Sure, it makes sense for a run to take longer with less damage, but it should never be more difficult at the same time.

Why think that? Given the nature of glass gear, it makes perfect sense for the addition of one member who is under-contributing toward the intended tactic to increase difficulty. All that does is underscore the potential for risk in all-out damage and the thin margin between success and failure in some glass groups.

Look at the flip side. All-clerics parties have a very easy time. There’s even a video showing such a party doing an Arah path without using dodge at all. I believe one of the participants already linked it in this thread, but here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

How many players not contributing to a sustain tactic would it take to make that experience harder? I doubt that anyone tested that. I also very much doubt one player not adding to the tactic would do it because there’s less risk in a sustain build.

You’re missing the point entirely. If defensive gear is meant to be easymode, then why does it make things harder in some cases than running with a full zerker party, which is supposed to be the most difficult team composition to run with? It makes sense for it to make runs last longer, but it should NEVER be more difficult. The difficulty of any given encounter based on gear used by each party member should scale in a purely linear fashion, with full defensive gear being the easiest, and full offensive gear being the hardest. It should NOT be harder to run with 4 zerker 1 cleric than with 5 zerker, in any case. No exceptions.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Black Box.9312:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

Nothing that you’ve just said has any bearing on the fact that the toxic behavior that players express over gear types is completely unfounded if the gear is not the actual problem. If people were willing to stop being such kittens to each other, maybe there wouldn’t be such an issue with how other people choose to play the game.

Your challenge has no meaning to me, by the way. You need to look at and understand what I actually said before I’ll even bother imagining any sort of witch hunt you choose to throw at me.

As to the first paragraph, above, it sure looks like you’re assuming that people would be more inclusive if gear was not a factor. I will guarantee you that that wouldn’t happen. If Anet were to put everyone in Celestial gear, no other options, there would still be exclusion. Those inclined to exclude would just use other criteria than gear.

As to the second… I guess I must be misinterpreting the statements you made to the effect that there is a lack of balance between cleric and berserker gear, and that there is a gear discrepancy that might be causing the perceived problem. If those statements don’t mean that you believe that there is a numbers issue with gear stats, what do they mean?

My point is that it should never be easier to run a 5 zerker party as opposed to a 4 zerker and 1 non-zerker party, and yet that is exactly the case, particularly with bosses like the CoF P1 Slave Driver that essentially punish players that do not provide enough party DPS to end the fight before a wipe. Sure, it makes sense for a run to take longer with less damage, but it should never be more difficult at the same time.

The Revenant is going to be both a better Guardian than Guardian and a better Necromancer than Necromancer. Might as well just accept it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Diovid.9506:

Ironically it was just now mentioned in the livestream that the Revenant’s staff was a DPS weapon at one point in development.

I heard that, and choked on my soda laughing.

I just facepalmed when I heard that. Literally.

IndigoSundown.5419:

You’re basing this on the idea that maximum efficiency is the primary criteria that motivates the exclusionary PuG dungeon-goers. It isn’t. Convenience is. Efficiency matters, but is secondary to convenience. Players who want real max efficiency put a dungeon group together using their friends’ and/or guild list because they know the other players’ capabilities. If someone wants convenience, they use LFG. Because it’s more convenient to control group membership, they try to do so. Because it’s more convenient to do so before the run starts that’s when they do it using the only available criteria.

Changes to game mechanics will not change this. All a change will do is shift what the pre-run criteria are. That’s because it’s a human psychology issue.

Gear stats determine personal survival v. personal damage and the choice between direct and condition damage. That’s all. Profession choices and weapon/utility choices determine max efficiency. Want to know where the poor balance really is? It’s in the fact that Necromancers just don’t bring as much to the party for PvE group play as the other seven professions. Maybe Reaper will change this — maybe not

Sure, there’s a disparity between the efficiency of condition damage v. direct damage. There’s also a difference between the kill efficiency of glass stats over survival stats. What’s surprising is not that that’s so, but that some posters are surprised about it. Think about it. Higher damage stats kill mobs faster. Flawed? Really?

I’ll close with the same challenge I’ve posted in several of these threads. If the survival/damage numbers are off-kilter, then prove it with math. Remember to control the experiment by ensuring that stats from gear are the only variable. No one’s taken me up on it so far. I’d be surprised if anyone does, and more surprised if the numbers support the contention, because the observable facts don’t.

Nothing that you’ve just said has any bearing on the fact that the toxic behavior that players express over gear types is completely unfounded if the gear is not the actual problem. If people were willing to stop being such kittens to each other, maybe there wouldn’t be such an issue with how other people choose to play the game.

Your challenge has no meaning to me, by the way. You need to look at and understand what I actually said before I’ll even bother imagining any sort of witch hunt you choose to throw at me.

Gnat.9405:

Revenant just doesn’t make sense to me. I feel like they’re going to be pigeonholed into using two complimenting legends rather than whatever combo you want because of the lack of weapon swapping.

Like, it wouldn’t make sense to use Mallyx and Ventari, because Staff has support skills. And even if I did find a way for it to work, what gear stats would I seek? Settler’s?

Or what if I wanted Ventari and Shiro (assumed to be high dps)? What weapon would I use? My Ventari skills would be useless because I wouldn’t run staff with Shiro, and my (assumed DPS) swords would be useless with Ventari because they’re not support? And again, what gear stats do I wear?

This has been my issue with the Revenant since introduction. Am I looking at it incorrectly?

I’ve been thinking the same. The weapons seem to carry too much of a theme around them based on what legend they’re associated with. Removing weapon swap seems okay on paper since you’re getting extra utility skills, but those skills won’t do much good if they aren’t compatible with your build that you had to center around one weapon set. It gives the feeling of having to build primarily around a single legend, with the legend swap just being there so that you have a couple of buttons to press while you’re waiting for that primary legend to go off cooldown.

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Intentions are irrelevant to criticism.

I am not sure that New Criticism applies here fully since DH is an addition to an exisiting system and not a creation of its own. As in many posts before I do understand where you coming from and that you are unshakable in your opnion.

BUT your opinion derives from your argument that guardians can not make any “reliable” use from

1) cripple damage modifiers outside of LB … and
2) knock backs
3) Defenders Dogma (useless in your eyes)
4) the (indeed questionable) minor trait pure of sight
5) traps
6) all other traits are stupid

I stil think you are too hung up on 4+5 to see the potential od DH and come on too strong to anyone suggesting otherwise.

Does DH add to other exisiting builds better then the exisiting traitlines?
I dont think so either. Simply because of the strength of Valor and Virtues

Does it create new ones even without LB?
Definitely Yes

Are they viable?
too soon to tell

First of all, thank you for taking the time to address my actual argument. I’m rather tired of having to repeat myself. :/

But anyway, perhaps I am coming on a bit strongly, but in my defense, I was basically hinging my decision to keep Guardian as my main on how the new spec would turn out, and this is pretty far from what I was hoping for. Since I’ve been pretty consistently disappointed with the directions they’re taking the class, I figure I’ll give the Revenant a try. It looks a bit more up my alley.

It looks like to me that it was designed with the mindset that someone would want to just camp the longbow and maintain distance, despite the fact that there’s nothing about the guardian in its current iteration that works in this fashion. The introduction of another ranged weapon doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a primarily melee-oriented class, and swapping to your melee weapon is going to render half of the DH’s benefits useless. The traits feel almost exclusively centered around the new stuff. Why didn’t they give us anything that boosts the potential of any of our existing setups?

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think all of you are missing the point.

They can now daze you from range!

Steal -> then once steal finish CD -> activate F2 daze -> while its casting, quickly activate steal to teleport to you and daze you

they don’t need to be near you now to activate daze

and if they time it right, they got a 2nd daze in their F2 to use again.

can you imagine a blink daze on you now?

But they can already do that with something like Infiltrator’s Signet? It’s not even that powerful of a combo. I don’t really get what the big deal is.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Black Box.9312:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Black Box.9312:

spoj.9672:

Yeah i admit that was a poor example. However I can expand on that example. That was basically the worst possible composition and builds yet it wasnt that bad for time. If we had actually used proper strategies and stacked buffs with those terrible builds we would have saved 15 minutes easily.

The gap between berserker and other builds is not enormous. Its trivial. Its all the other factors that make the gap.

If that’s the case, then I still don’t get why people make such a big deal about zerker/meta setups. If the build and gear aren’t that great of a factor, then why are so many people so snobbish about it? Most pug groups don’t go trying to shatter time records, so how come people emphasize having zerker gear/meta build groups, over simply asking for people with adequate dungeon knowledge? The two aren’t necessarily directly related to each other.

Gear and AP are the common criteria because they can be checked/verified before the dungeon starts. Proper use of active skills and knowledge cannot be.

But my point is that neither of those are wholly representative of a player’s skill level and expertise. So what’s the point of having them judged as such?

They’re assuming there is a greater likelihood that a person wearing the gear they prefer thinks like them and wants the same things from a run that they do. It’s not a perfect indicator (or in the case of AP, not even a particularly accurate one). They’re substituting a criteria they can see before the run starts for one that can only be determined after seeing performance in one or more fights. Finally, people who are less than perfect themselves may not be the best judges of others’ skill. Anyone, though, can judge whether someone’s gear matches the LFG post or not.

What I’m getting at here is that the debate over zerker gear vs. other gear is either a big enough deal that the efficiency gap needs to be reduced, or it’s not a big enough deal, meaning that the toxicity that players express toward others over it is entirely unfounded and the scrutiny should be made based on factors that actually matter.

I’m completely okay with the zerker meta being how it is. My issue is that it is currently easy enough to run a full zerker team that adding one player with cleric’s gear actually makes it more difficult for everyone else. It should be a purely linear tradeoff between speed/efficiency and difficulty based on how offensively/defensively your team is geared, and the current lack of that is a sign of poor balance. Whether the primary cause of it lies with the gear disparity, or flawed mob AI and dungeon design, or a combination of the two, is up for debate.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Why are people acting like you need to use a specific legend to use each weapon? Your weapon affects your 1-5 skills, your legend affects your 6-0 skills. There will be some synergy between support weapons and support legends, but that’s true of any class that can choose their utility skills, too.

It looks like each weapon set we’ve seen so far is pretty heavily tied to a specific legend. From what I’ve heard from buddies who have been in the beta tests, mace/axe doesn’t really do too much for a build centered around Jalis, and likewise for hammer with Mallyx. This is my primary concern behind the decision to remove the weapon swap on Revenant, because they’ll need to find a way to make it viable to build around 2 legends with a single weapon set rather than just centering around one legend, and just having one as backup for a few extra skills.

I was kind of speculating on how this combo would work. I really like the idea behind a melee staff, and the skills sound pretty good, but it’d have to be able to deal some good damage with an offensive build at least, because I don’t really plan on playing my Revenant as a hard support.

If not though, I suppose Bolt would still look pretty nice on him, so I’m not too worried.

Bash.7291:

Cleansing flame + Big game hunter’s vuln on hit + wvw fight/spvp team fight

Damage, Vuln on hit, Cond Cleanse on allies, requires no target, can hit stealth, and through obsticles, and its multi target….

I’m like, 99.9999% sure that that trait applies one stack of vulnerability per second while the spear is tethered to your target, and has nothing to do with vuln on hit.

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.

This has to be the single most ridiculous statement in the entire thread… so someone w/ a different opinion about what’s occurring (in any situation – right or wrong), has nothing to add to said discussion….

wow.

You’ve outdone yourself this time.

That statement being ridiculous has more to do with your comprehension than anything else. I said nothing about someone having a different opinion not adding to a discussion.

While you’re pointing out the strawman, how about you stop making one yourself please? Thanks.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Black Box.9312:

spoj.9672:

Yeah i admit that was a poor example. However I can expand on that example. That was basically the worst possible composition and builds yet it wasnt that bad for time. If we had actually used proper strategies and stacked buffs with those terrible builds we would have saved 15 minutes easily.

The gap between berserker and other builds is not enormous. Its trivial. Its all the other factors that make the gap.

If that’s the case, then I still don’t get why people make such a big deal about zerker/meta setups. If the build and gear aren’t that great of a factor, then why are so many people so snobbish about it? Most pug groups don’t go trying to shatter time records, so how come people emphasize having zerker gear/meta build groups, over simply asking for people with adequate dungeon knowledge? The two aren’t necessarily directly related to each other.

Gear and AP are the common criteria because they can be checked/verified before the dungeon starts. Proper use of active skills and knowledge cannot be.

But my point is that neither of those are wholly representative of a player’s skill level and expertise. So what’s the point of having them judged as such?