Guild Wars 2

Mryul.8165:

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

The problem with burning in its current iteration is that you can essentially use it as burst damage, which defies its role as a condition (damage over time). Yes, you can cleanse it pretty quickly, but classes like Guard, Ele, and Engi can apply it frequently enough in multiple stacks that it’s still going to tick for 2k+ dmg even if it’s cleansed after just one second, and within the next 3 seconds you’ll have all of those stacks right back on you again.

It needs a nerf, not a buff.

Elbritil.3817:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Fire for example crit procing burn. Anyway its ood cuz the direct dps loss is minimal, so if u get perma cleansed than u have a chance sill. If not, then the rage of flames is pure advantage

Right, forgot about that, but with Radiance equipped you’ll have at least a 29-34% crit chance against burning targets with zero extra precision and Radiant Fire only procs once every 10 seconds, so it’s really not at all necessary. The vitality is far more valuable.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Oh man those generalizations. “Nobody” is going to use traps or longbow? I didn’t realize when you spoke for me or for every other person too. The kitten class hasn’t even been played live once yet, you have ZERO clue on how the traps will affect the metagame or how much of a game changer a heavy hitting 1200 CC/power weapon will help guardians.

But keep speaking for everyone anyways, you do not look anything like a fool.

Well, let’s be honest though: Traps are not going to be a game changer. They might be good for WvW zerg warfare where people are just going to blob and not pay attention to where they’re stepping, but other than that they are mechanically flawed by design.

There’s really no reason to run Sinister over Carrion on a Guardian, seeing as you don’t gain any on-crit condition procs with a condition build on the class.

Yashuoa.9527:

So there are no serious pvp builds with a shield?
I read about support guardian. Doesnt that one have a shield?

Shield on Guardian is just a really bad weapon, much to the chagrin of just about every Guardian player that ever was.

Use a focus instead.

Zatoichi.1049:

burning is OP. its got nothing to do with guardians.

I see burn guardians daily in pvp. Often more than 1

Pretty much this. Burning itself is unbalanced currently and should be toned down, not just Burn Guard specifically.

Mike.3460:

Black Box.9312:

Why the hell would I want a weapon that doesn’t attack the enemy that I have targeted?

To guard the squishies around you from the nearest thread… And if you focus on someone and land your F1 on him, the Skill will target them.

So it actually rewards landing your F1. As it’s supposed to be notably faster and only single target instead of the old puncturing shot, it’s allows for more focusing instead of less. If you use Warden’s Faith, you’d have your F1 up pretty much non-stop.

Sorry, but no. There are a lot of things that I don’t like about the dragonhunter, but this would most certainly make it even worse.

MidoriMarch.8067:

From what i know Anet already announced that shield will be totally redesigned in HoT.

I’m 99.999% sure that they didn’t say this. Sounds way too good to be true.

Why the hell would I want a weapon that doesn’t attack the enemy that I have targeted?

Whirling Wrath should really be reworked, but I wouldn’t say that retal should be the primary incentive for doing so. It’s just a poorly designed skill in the first place; the fact that you have to stand literally inside your target hitbox for maximum damage output is a pretty clear sign of that.

GS/hammer is a strong combo, however it’s severely lacking against anyone that knows how to properly kite.

lighter.2708:

Black Box.9312:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

it’s atleast way more original then making it the third heavy with weapon swap.

No…. No it’s not.

Yes….Yes it is.

Also nobody said making it like ele, does ele has a specific attunement only for condi like Mallyx? no..exactly..having legend swap and no weapon swap doesnt make him an ele…

Sorry, but “WE NEED A HEAVY CLASS WITHOUT WEAPON SWAP BECAUSE THEN THERE’S A THEME” is not original nor is it a valid reason at all. The class sucked terribly without it, and even with it it still needs some work. I really fail to see how adding weapon swap takes away from the “originality” of the class when it still has the legend swap mechanic as well.

Balance is far more important than theme is (as any decent Guardian player would know well by this point), so it really doesn’t matter if you get personally offended by the fact that there isn’t a heavy class lacking weapon swap, because if you take it away again you’ll be left with the same class that will never see any decent playtime anyway because it will be terrible.

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

it’s atleast way more original then making it the third heavy with weapon swap.

No…. No it’s not.

iGuarDiaN.1925:

I guess what I’m trying to say when I say fluid is to make it streamlined in regards to their mechanic.

But that doesn’t make it more fluid. What if I needed the quickness burst from Impossible Odds to more quickly stack conditions on my enemy with my mace/axe? What if I wanted to run staff without having to take Ventari? The idea behind “streamlining” something is to make it more easily accessible without unnecessary complication, and by locking weapons to legends you’re doing the exact opposite.

Really? I see Burn Guard all the time in PvP. Seems like a lot of people I find don’t really know how to effectively play it though, and IMO it’s pretty easily outclassed by a d/d Ele with Blinding Ashes.

iGuarDiaN.1925:

Much appreciate that there are still some people who understand the point of forums. I was merely throwing in my personal feedback and was trying to see what players thought of it instead of, ermagerd anet do this exactly what I want. I’m going to play the rev regardless of if they keep it as is or not. I enjoy the game.

All I was doing was trying to propose a way to make the class more fluid and see what the community thought. I didn’t expect the WoW elitist mentality of your idea is stupid like everyone else’s and you shouldn’t have posted here.

In regards to the earlier reply, I guess my opinion is heavily biased based on my experience with the engineer.

Adding restrictions is a great way to make things more rigid, which is the polar opposite of fluidity. If you’re trying to make the class play more fluidly, then you’re going in the completely wrong direction.

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

Not this again…
Ele has 20 weaponskills and conjured weapons
Engi has 5 toolbelt skills and a crapton of kits

Seriously, have you played those classes? You don’t feel any need for weaponswap on them. I’ve played Revenant and it desperately needed weaponswap.

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

People have explained in rather fine detail why the addition of weapon swap was necessary. Choosing to ignore such reasoning does not make it any less valid.

Kholdstare.9608:

What shield?

You know, that paperweight you strap to your arm to play the game on a higher difficulty.

I can also confirm they didn’t even touch it. I bet they didn’t even look at it.

I’m pretty sure anet is like “what shield” too. I don’t even know why I bother anymore.

I joke, but I too am quite depressed about it in all honesty.

I have more than enough tomes to not have to worry about this, really.

Kholdstare.9608:

At work. Can anyone confirm if they stealth fixed the 180 bonus toughness for shield yet?

What shield?

XxsdgxX.8109:

I might try the bow but **** the traps, the loss of survivability for such long cds isn’t worth it. Don’t forget you still have the lowest HP pool and no access to passive movement speed.

Exactly. Trap builds will have no sustain and no condi clear. Stealth and superspeed are not going to save you from being kited by an enemy smart enough not to stand in that spot where you clearly just laid down all of your traps.

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

now rev didn’t have one at the start and that was perfect because you have 1 profession from each armor class without it, balancing them out but if you break this then you maze well give all professions weapon swap surely? it defiantly sends my OCD in a spin i will grant you that , i surely aren’t the only one that thinks this right?

At least i hope not :/

Sorry, but game balance from an objective standpoint is more important than your personal “OCD” (which probably isn’t even actual OCD).

Genesis.8572:

I was lamenting more the Dragonhunter’s traitline assumptions than the Revenant’s.

You’re not the only one. What a load of crap.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

By no means are weapons tied to a specific legend. Revenant weapons are usually themed in feel and playstyle with a legend to create a comprehensive package if you want to play a certain way, such as sword, shiro, and the devastation line for physical damage. But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t meant to be mixed and matched as well to create unique and interesting builds. There are a lot of really cool builds you can make by trying out different combinations.

i think the main issue with the weapons is there isn’t much in term of condi options. mace/axe is literally the only weapon combo that inflicts damaging conditions, and mace can really only be used in condi setups.

Yeah, I think I kind of have to agree at least in the sense of Mallyx and mace/axe. Loading all of the DPS conditions onto a single weapon set kind of limits the potential for condi builds to excel with anything else. Every other class with weapon swap has at least two weapon sets that feature damaging conditions (other than Guardian, who instead has access to burning passively through its profession mechanic). I don’t think it’d really be too much of a stretch to add some sort of bleeding or poison to one of the swords, at least.

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

It’s really not going to be that good, guys…

You said the exact same thing about burn guards… lol.

Burn Guard is still a gimmick though…

I think more people are suggesting that this is already alluded to by the weapon and legend mechanics we are going to be receiving, as opposed to suggesting that that’s what they want. I know I personally would actually prefer the opposite. I’d like to have a greater degree of freedom between what weapons I choose and what legends I bring.

Mine will be either asura or charr, depending on whose animations I end up liking better.

I don’t think any Guardian players ever wanted traps.

It’s really not going to be that good, guys…

lighter.2708:

Loex.5104:

lighter.2708:

HarbingerAzrael.5691:

Weapon swap solves a lot of proplems for Rev given that certain wapons synergyse well with certain weapons eg axe/mace goes with Mallyx.
most of what has been shown and used in beta is subject to change so stop kittening

Yea, then why engi and ele dont have these problems? lets give them weapon swap as well? you will say that’s too op? exactly.
you are just going for the lazy solution that doesnt fix anything while removing the class unique feature..
revenant was supposed to be the heavy that doesnt weapon swap,, if you want to play a heavy with weapon swap go play warrior or guardian, seriously.

Revenant was maybe intended to fit the pattern “1 class per armor type has no Weaponswap” – but Gameplay is more important than stupid patterns.

and the class unique feature is the Legend swap – the Weapon Swap has NOTHING to do with that

And yeah – ws is the maybe most obvious and easy solution – but it does its job

Are you saying that Elementalist and engineer give bad gameplay by saying gameplay is more important than stupid patterns?
no. exactly, you don’t need weaponswap to have good gameplay, as long as you change the skills and values. you think GW2 played like this during beta? no…GW2 had clunky movements and everything.

This class is supposed to be the one set heavy, if you want to play two sets, go play warrior or guardian that’s why there’s multiple different classes, to have different design and cover up different gameplays for all players, i’m not sure why people keep trying to remove unique features, in the end it will just be like a warrior or a guardian then whats the point of playing a new class? just so you can show off? if you can’t become the best at your current class, you can’t become the best at this new class, simple as that.

You’re completely neglecting the fact that weapon skills are far more widely applicable than the situational utility skills. An Elementalist with 20 weapon skills and 5 utility skills still has more versatility than a Revenant with 10 weapon skills and 10 utility skills with weapon swap. Same with Engineer, who, with kits, can have up to 30 weapon skills.

Weapon swap on Ele and Engi would be near pointless, because there wouldn’t be enough room in their respective rotations for a second weapon anyway. The Revenant, on the other hand, was severely lacking without it, and even with it there is still quite a bit left to be desired.

There are two stickies at the top of the forum that discuss Guardian bugs…

Spartacus.9743:

For those who’s complaining about the gambling when you throw it, just learn to shoot it watching the area you are in…

This is really no excuse for a bugged mechanic. I’ve had it obstructed on completely flat ground before.

Cirian.8917:

All I want is to occasionally shout “Shoryuken!” when I throw torch #4, and I will be happy.

(I’m just kidding. I’m already happy with the torch.)

I think you’re looking for “Hadouken!”

The problem with not having weapon swap was that each of the Revenant’s weapon sets are too specifically tailored to a certain build/legend for the class mechanic to work without it. What this did was create a disconnect between the two legends that you chose to work with, because your weapon only synergized with one of them, and the second legend was essentially just filler skills that weren’t useful for your build (which was especially apparent with builds featuring mace/axe or Mallyx). That made the idea of legend swapping pointless to begin with, which left the Revenant at a severe disadvantage with an effective total of 10 skills to work with AND an energy bar to maintain on top of it.

Weapon swap is needed, and while the class still needs work, adding it certainly helped close a rather large balancing gap.

Medi Guard has always been a pretty hard counter to thief…

Or you could just, y’know, swap both your legend and weapon at the same time, and let the people who don’t want to be restricted do their thing.

starlinvf.1358:

Black Box.9312:

starlinvf.1358:

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

I really don’t get why this is so difficult to understand. It will only kill you if you continue to proc it. It’s essentially an indirect way of killing yourself. If you’re ending up downed from 100% because of a 2 second block, then you just really need to l2p.

I don’t understand why you think its so difficult to understand. Its like performing an an association test where I show you pictures of fruits, and you only response is “stop attacking”.

Except instead of pictures of fruits, it’s a problem of what to do if blocking hurts you, and my answer is the exact solution to the problem.

Burn Guard is pretty effective in standard level play, but it’s a bit of a gimmick that’s likely to be nerfed eventually. Power Medi Guard lost quite a bit of damage, and isn’t really as effective anymore, sadly.

starlinvf.1358:

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

I really don’t get why this is so difficult to understand. It will only kill you if you continue to proc it. It’s essentially an indirect way of killing yourself. If you’re ending up downed from 100% because of a 2 second block, then you just really need to l2p.

maha.7902:

Obtena.7952:

It makes sense that some people might be crusty that burning is a thing now. Hats don’t taste good.

not really.

i’m in awe that what was once a troll build is now so powerful but I’ve always wanted conditions to be strong.

it just so happens that someone makes a lame “joke” and it isn’t funny. imagine that, unfunny people are unfunny!

Whoa kitten , these pretzels just got really salty.

Shelter only killed people that were dumb enough to keep attacking the Guardian using it. If stacking might for every hit without an ICD is such a big deal, then why does the Warrior, who already can stack plenty more might on his own than a Guardian without having to rely on the enemy, get the same might on block, but doesn’t have to have it wrecked by a limiting ICD?

Block procs from Shelter should not be the determining factor in a fight, and if it is, then it’s your own kitten fault and you deserve to lose for it. It’s nothing like a Warrior dealing 5-10k with his heal skill. It’s much closer to an Ele using Magnetic Aura, and you being enough of an idiot to try to Killshot through it.

MHE Tiger.4875:

I think focus 5 and shield 5 should be switched. makes more sense to me

That would have been the best way to go about it before launch, but it’s 3 years too late for that. People who made the Minstrel would be pretty kittened.

Asmodal.6489:

Gav.1425:

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Retreat – swiftness shout
Save Yourselves – swiftness shout
Staff – swiftness aoe
GS – leap on a short cd
JI – instant teleport-to-tgt 1200 range
Sword – shadowstep-esque teleport-to-tgt

What the hell are you talking about?

actual viable swiftness that does not force you to stand still or uses up a utility slot for 50% uptime.

Don’t bother. They clearly don’t understand how WvW roaming works.

Nope. Using a focus and pretending that it’s not just a little stick in your hand that nonsensically blocks better than an actual defensive weapon made to block is about as good as you’re gonna get.

Hanako.1827:

Really erks me that Karl pretty visibly went out of his way to not mention scepter to address what a clunky piece of kitten it is.

Pretty much this. Especially after the Fresh Air build nerf, scepter really needed this kind of boost to make it more viable much, much more than dagger mainhand. Looks like it could be a cool spec, but as someone who got the most enjoyment out of Fresh Air w/ scepter I’m a bit disappointed.

To be honest, I’ve been playing Mesmer mostly recently, and I completely forgot that this trait was a thing. That’s how insignificant it really is in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, a Medi Guard already has Smite Condition on a 16s cooldown, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about the one that procs on heal.

Are you this much of a buzzkill everywhere you go?

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Burn Guard is meta, but it’s certainly the most effective offensive build we have now, seeing as our direct damage builds received an overall nerf. But once burning is inevitably nerfed, we’ll be back to our traditional no-damage-bunker-only role.

It was a joke.

RIP zerker meta.