Guild Wars 2

Nike.2631:

Black Box.9312:

Bingo. The entirety of Dragonhunter is about as disjointed from the rest of the class as it can be without being two entirely separate entities.

And yet about half of my Guardians are gonna be rockin’ variations using this spec. It’s almost like some people have a broader vision of what the class could mean or be used for. It’s already proven good fun on my zerg-leader for WvW. As the changes get patched in it’s just gonna get better.

Name 3 things in the Guardian’s base traitlines that effectively synergize with the Dragonhunter spec, or vice versa. It has to be at least equally effective in comparison to a non-Dragonhunter (i.e. Absolute Resolution doesn’t count because it’s not nearly as reliable on a DH).

Wulf.5431:

I feel the bow is too disconnected from the guardian as a whole. The weapon feels like it has little to do with the profession. I get that it’s an attempt at a different play style, but it should have synergy with other guardian skills. I would love it if it would interact with some other traits. Throwing some kind of a block on it would let it interact with a ton of traits; aegis even more. It does have a symbol, which is good. A heal would be good, or maybe a trait that allows for some kind of sustain. Even boons are practically nowhere on bow, just stability when traited. My feeling if the bow were to have a few of these things, it would fit the guardian way more, and would mesh together much better.

Bingo. The entirety of Dragonhunter is about as disjointed from the rest of the class as it can be without being two entirely separate entities.

Hooglese.4860:

Saiyan.1704:

3s of resistance to allies would mean it just became the new Absolute Resolution.

Its protection (-33% damage), not resistance(condi immunity). Although now I do wish it was resistance.

(Whoosh.)

Nike.2631:

Black Box.9312:

You are literally sacrificing valuable utility skills from your utility skill slots to take traps. This couldn’t be more false.

Then stick with what you know & are comfortable with because they aren’t going to give you that and more. Elite-specs are not an upgrade… Dragonhunter is an under-tuned alternative that’s still being hammered out.

Something people really don’t get: If the Devs feel Guardians are “in a good place” there is ZERO chance that the new alternative is going to be better. And realistically it SHOULDN’T BE EVEN AS GOOD as a Guard meta-build. They’re aiming for “just about as good, though definitely a little less” because frankly what we do with Dragonhunter in the first 2-3 months is gonna be nothing like what evolves over the course of a half-a-year of hard evolution. Same as the current cluster of tricks that make up the Meditation-Meta builds took time to refine.

I’m not expecting something better. I’m just expecting something that isn’t objectively worse.

I don’t think it really has to be thematically appropriate. I think adding profession-specific tells to dodge animations would make it easier (particularly for players with low res or small screens) to see when a player is dodging. It wouldn’t have to be anything too elaborate, but some sort of extra audio/visual cue that would inform you that the enemy is currently evading could go a long way IMO.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Guardians aren’t sacrificing utility to take traps.

You are literally sacrificing valuable utility skills from your utility skill slots to take traps. This couldn’t be more false.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Burning guardians are kind of a cheese build. If you have enough condition cleansing then they won’t do much, but if you don’t you’ll die rather quickly.

Pretty much this. And I’m pretty confident that it’ll get overshadowed by Berserker Warriors once HoT is out, because Anet briefly forgot that Warriors are supposed to be better at being Guardians than Guardians when shoutbow got nerfed and have to make up for it elsewhere.

It’d still be a garbage trait even without an ICD, so no reason to take it to begin with, really.

The ironic thing is that you’ll be better off not taking Dragonhunter. It’s a piece of garbage.

The problem I have with this is that I so strongly dislike everything they’re giving us with the Dragonhunter that the only way I would be satisfied is if they restarted from the ground up. And gave it a different name.

rajule.8054:

Chainezo.1835:

percentages stack multiplicatively so it is 14.49% not 14%.

Is this also the case for percentages with different triggers. Like if I have fiery wrath and symbolic avenger and the enemy is on fire in my symbol.

will I do 17% more damage to him? or will it be 10.7%? I hope its the former otherwise it seems like a waste to get multiple damage multiplier traits.

It’d be neither because your math is a bit off here. The base coefficient needs to be included on both values, and they need to be multiplied, not added. 1.1 * 1.07 = 1.177, which translates to a 17.7% damage increase. Close to what it would be with addition, but having multiple different multipliers stacked makes those extra digits make a noticeable difference.

Amante.8109:

Black Box.9312:

True, but being master of one role is better than being master of zero.

That kind of rationale is the worst type of shallow, sunny side up false optimism. At best, it represents misplaced idealism; at worst, it’s often a statement coming from someone not even representing the marginalized class in question, in an attempt to get them to shut up about their problems. Nothing has ever been solved by not talking about it, so I’m going to pass on that one.

Of course having “a” role is better than none… but it’s also a massive design failure if a class doesn’t have even one potentially viable role in sPvP. Fortunately, NO ONE fits that description, as GW2 is a game designed somewhat competently.

That’s where the chief complaint enters in… if other all the other classes can excel in 3-5 roles with a variety of trait and weapon choices, why should Thieves be forced into one role with one viable weapon choice? What is the silver lining in the cloud of the class that has the least diversity and build options in the game? We should be happy because things could somehow theoretically be worse for some other, even more worse off class that doesn’t actually exist? Get real.

You’re making the assumption that other classes can excel in multiple roles. In almost every case, that couldn’t be further from the truth. Most classes have literally ONE optimal build for PvE. It’s about tacking on the bare minimum as far as supportive traits/skills are concerned, and stacking damage, damage, damage. There is ONE optimal weapon set to use, other than maybe a ranged swap if you need it (in some cases just one weapon in general and not even a swap), and ONE specific rotation that might vary slightly based on whether the encounter is trash mobs or a boss.

PvP honestly isn’t much better. Meta Ele comp is celestial D/D. Guardian is offensively-challenged bunker. Engineer is rifle with grenades and tool kit. Mesmer is shatter burst. Running anything else is considered a liability from a competitive standpoint.

The update last month helped things out a bit, but role choice in this game is still only an illusion. Sure, you can play something else if you want, but in the end it’ll only be limiting your potential. The only difference between Thief and these other classes is that Thief players are only just now for the first time getting to know what it feels like to have to compete for that one role that you’re good at, and while it doesn’t feel good, any sort of outcry to other players is nothing more than preaching to the choir.

Aiden.5072:

Karl McLain.5604:

True Shot: To make this ability more rewarding for stopping you in place, we’re looking at further increasing the damage.

What if instead of rooting you in place, it just deals bonus damage if you aren’t moving? That way the player can decide, “Do I want to keep moving and deal less damage, or am I in position I can stop and make a True Shot while standing still thus dealing bonus damage?”

This seems like a cool idea on paper, but it would be difficult to implement in a game with combat as quickly paced as this one. Either players would end up missing out on the bonus too often because they’d accidentally misstep or not stop running in time before casting, or the skill would have to deliberately stop you when initially being cast, which would break the flow of things and be almost as jarring as the skill is currently.

Silhouette.5631:

Despite the fact that u can trick people into walking into 4 traps at once. and with wells you can only cast them one at a time and they get blocked and dodged. Oh ok. Guess that makes sense

Wells can be placed immediately wherever they are needed (within range, obviously) because they are ground targeted.

Wells have a much shorter cast/activation time.

Wells are triggered on the terms of the player casting it and are not dependent on the enemy making a misstep.

Wells typically have a wider radius and last longer.

Wells cannot be preemptively dodged by someone who knows where it is ahead of time to neutralize the entire threat.

I could go on and on about how traps completely counteract this game’s combat design and mechanics, but I think that should be enough to at least get the picture.

Amante.8109:

Like most in this forum, I’m not concerned with “doing fine” in a single preordained role. GW2 is ostensibly designed around player choice; I’d rather have more than one option on how to play my Thief (e.g., the tank, support, and/or condi builds that every other profession has).

True, but being master of one role is better than being master of zero.

Overworld.9613:

Black Box.9312:

Kodiak.3281:

Dragon Hunter is a predominately ranged Guardian something it lacked.

Ehhhhhhh not really. Other than the longbow (which has no CC to KEEP enemies back other than a passive gimmick trait), there’s really nothing ranged about the Dragonhunter. And even then, it’s really not a new playstyle. It’s a trap ranger wannabe.

Guardians are definitely not in any better shape than Eles as far as this whole “elite spec” thing is concerned.

So you’re saying that over the three year life of the game; most, if not all, of the current professions have been steadily pigeon-hole’d into a single “Best Build” as their options have either been nerfed into irrelevance or reworked into counter-intuitive version of themselves which are only useful at pretending to be a different profession’s pigeon-hole?

You could ask someone who mains engineer what role their weapons provide that their kits don’t do better, it’s not a matter of the kits being the best option, it’s a matter of their main weapons are irrelevant. You could ask a thief main how they plan to survive an extended combat scenario without relying heavily on stealth, it’s not a matter of stealth being a very good solution to slowly losing a fight; it’s a matter of the thief having no other way to protect their tiny health pool. There’s a terrible design point that all the base professions suffer from, and it’s not a matter of just looking at what they have that works and telling them not to complain, it’s a matter of having a wide variety of “options” and there being a correct choice.

Just think, if any profession has a choice between 5-7 different weapon skill sets and 5-7 elite skills, but 90% of players use the same weapon set and the same elite skill, then those “options” feel wasted, and the game feels unloved. (keep in mind building video games is a huge endeavour and takes a lot of time and effort simply to produce a facsimile of a working game and the results I’ve been discussing here are what it seems like from a player’s perspective without good communication from the developers)

I really don’t know what point you’re trying to get across. Are you agreeing with me, or arguing the opposite?

Renewed Focus is more defensive/supportive utility than FMW. Use it when you need the invulnerability after your other active defenses are burned. Or, if you’ve already used your virtues and you feel like you’ll need that extra condition cleanse or clutch aegis.

In the former case, make sure to pop your virtues during the channel, since they are refreshed anyway when the skill completes.

Ghotistyx.6942:

ITT:

People complaining unnecessarily
Arm chair developers
mmrbl flrbgl WAAUGH!

“Unnecessarily”? There’s a video linked above that shows the bow getting literally “obstructed” by nothing in < 600 range. Stop binge drinking the kool aid.

Amante.8109:

Black Box.9312:

I feel bad for you guys. The Karl McLain bulldozer has already smashed Guardian and Ele players into the ground. You’re next.

Nice try, but we’re already in the ground.

In all seriousness, I know those elite specs seem pretty underwhelming so far, but they’re also on professions that are already fairly complete in their non-elite forms (especially Ele). Thieves are struggling just to get their profession to function on a basic level in more than one extremely narrow, over-emphasized niche.

Guardian really hasn’t been anything special ever since the original bunker setup went out of fashion. Sure, Medi Guard could win fights, but the only thing it really did best was counter Thieves, who could just end up outmaneuvering them anyway because lol melee class with hardly any mobility and even less CC. Now Bunker Guard is back again it seems, but it’s still just as terrible at dealing damage as it’s always been.

As for PvE, I guess they’re pretty decent now with FMW, but PvE is still a trainwreck in general as far as balance is concerned.

Thieves, on the other hand, have been meta in PvP from day 1, and are only just now receiving competition for their role. Did the class get shafted with the spec update? Maybe a bit, but you guys really shouldn’t be throwing a fit over it. A good Thief player can still do just fine.

Kodiak.3281:

Dragon Hunter is a predominately ranged Guardian something it lacked.

Ehhhhhhh not really. Other than the longbow (which has no CC to KEEP enemies back other than a passive gimmick trait), there’s really nothing ranged about the Dragonhunter. And even then, it’s really not a new playstyle. It’s a trap ranger wannabe.

Guardians are definitely not in any better shape than Eles as far as this whole “elite spec” thing is concerned.

This would be decent, at least. Traps are just horrendous skills in this game.

Silhouette.5631:

I think the solution to this issue..is that none of you want to use traps. Because you obviously want wells.

Yes.

Yes, that’s exactly it.

Because wells are just flat out superior to traps in every conceivable way.

There we go. Better, but there’s still plenty of work to be done.

Silhouette.5631:

Traps are traps. You set them. You lure people into them. They are not fireballs or explosives, you don’t cast them at people.
You people don’t like traps. That’s ok. But please stop trying to get them changed. You want ground targeting? GO GRAB SOME CONSECRATION

People want the traps changed because the way they’re designed makes them very ineffective. Nobody likes anticipating something new only to be disappointed by receiving something that isn’t going to be used anyway.

They should really just merge the symbol minors in Zeal into Symbolic Avenger and have more practical minor traits in place. Fiery Wrath, Shattered Aegis, and Binding Jeopardy would all make for far more effective minor traits.

I feel bad for you guys. The Karl McLain bulldozer has already smashed Guardian and Ele players into the ground. You’re next.

Karl McLain. He’s also leading the team that is designing the Tempest, and soon enough he will be making Thief players everywhere incredibly disappointed as well.

Soryuju.8164:

Back for another round!

@Black Box: Glad to hear you think these traits could help the specialization! I’m a little curious about what you mean more specifically with some of your comments, though. You say that you probably still wouldn’t use Traps, for instance – do you think that the loss of ground targeting is too much to compensate for, or is there something else you feel is missing from my suggestions? Also, since you mention that this version of the DH seems much improved, but still a little disjointed, is there anything else in particular you’d still try to polish?

Traps, just by their inherent design, are poor utilities. Back when they were ground targeted and could activate under someone’s feet instantly they were decent at least, but apparently that wasn’t “traplike” enough. This game is just too fast-paced for a preparation-based skill set to be useful over skills that can actually be used in the heat of battle. Setting a trap costs you valuable time that could be spent doing something with a more immediate payoff, and even when the trap activates a player can simply dodge out of the AoE (or better yet, just not step over it at all) and in doing so entirely neutralize the threat it poses. I quite literally would have taken any other existing utility set over traps, because they’re just bad, bad, bad in this game. Another classic example of Anet trying really hard to make something work when it should be rather clear that it’s not going to work.

As for being disjointed, there’s not really much that can be done about that without scrapping the spec entirely. It’s an extension of the ranger with a slight light magic theme. Furthermore, the longbow, traps, and traits all have little to no synergy with the base class, and nothing short of rebuilding from the ground up is going to solve that. The dev team behind the Dragonhunter just did a terrible job, plain and simple, and although your proposed changes are definitely a step in the right direction, it’s unfortunately still not enough to salvage it IMO.

x indigo x.6981:

Reading through the guardian forums i can’t help but see 95% rants, yelling, screaming, stating that everything just “sucks” .. and 5% constructive… Now if i was having a conversation with you and the content of that conversation was 95% rants yelling screaming at me telling me i suck and that i should be fired, guess what, i wouldn’t be listening to those 5%.

It certainly hasn’t always been like that. 3 years’ worth of consistently being ignored despite a good portion of the feedback this forum has received being entirely constructive and perfectly reasonable is a great way to upset people.

The difference in feedback (in both magnitude from the players’ end and quality from the devs’ end) between the elite specs Robert Gee’s team is handling and the elite specs that Karl McLain’s team is handling is nearly polarizing. The devs need to earn the respect of the players, not the other way around, and Karl’s team clearly has not grasped onto such a concept well enough.

I think it’s silly to propose that feedback no longer be given entirely, however I learned quite a long time ago that the dev team is very selective with which feedback they choose to pay attention to. Unfortunately, that related to Guardian players is not within such categories.

Oh, so it’s because Warrior is yet again supposed to be better at Guardian than Guardian.

Makes sense.

Knox.8962:

I’m fully aware of the ability to stack might on PS warriors. It isn’t like it is news to people that they do that amazingly well. I’ve also been very clear that this trait shouldn’t be compared to PS. It is a master tier trait that provides might to a group. Not everyone runs in a group with a PS warrior at all times, and this trait evaluated on merit alone is quite strong.

If you’d like to make an argument for nerfing might stacking with PS, I’d certainly be willing to hear that as I think it is absurd that one class can singlehandedly keep up 25 might on an entire group without sacrificing a ton of DPS to do so.

I’m also in favor of gutting banners as they exist today, because as long as they are the sole source of those buffs, any group that doesn’t have a warrior dropping banners is going to be significantly sub-optimal (which will be a big problem if we ever see truly challenging content). That means any group attempting “challenging content” will basically be comprised of 20% warriors for the buffs they provide.

I think this is really more the problem, honestly. It’s not so much that it’s too hard to keep up might stacking on other classes as it is just far too easy for Warrior and Ele to do so. It helps trivialize PvE content and throws off balance in PvP. While I still think that 5s might every 1 second is a bit meh, it’d be more productive to first nerf things like PS and the duration of fire blasted might.

Sorry, but this looks like you’ve done a terrific job of doing absolutely nothing that anybody asked for. Please try again.

As someone who has seen very little promise in the Dragonhunter from the beginning, I think these changes would actually do a lot of good. I still probably wouldn’t run traps, but at the very least the bow would provide more viability outside of backline zergs and the traits would be consistent. You’ve provided excellent rationale behind your proposed changes, and while the overall result still feels a little disjointed from the base class, it’s many steps closer than the mess we’ve been given.

“Feel My Wrath” is pretty silly. At the very least the cooldown needs to be bumped up. Also burning could definitely use a nerf, but that’d honestly have just as much (if not more) of an impact on Ele and Engi as opposed to Guardian.

Beyond that, I think putting a 1/4 cast time on Smite Condition would be okay. It’s a little unfair that you can CC a Guardian and they can just slap you back for ~3k AoE damage and heal themselves for 2k while they’re still on the ground.

Other than that, I really don’t think there’s anything OP about Guardian left that hasn’t been nerfed already, usually to the point of overcompensation. Plenty of things that still need some love, though.

Yeah, I kind of have to agree. I’ve never been very impressed with Empowering Might on Guardian either. I get the idea of wanting to avoid might stacking overload, but 5s of might every 1 second is pretty underwhelming. Either the duration should be increased, or (the more practical option IMO because of the Herald’s extended boon duration) it should apply more than one stack per boon application.

And while you’re at it, can Empowering Might get a little bit of love too? I’d love to be able to make a might stacking Guardian build but it’s just too ineffective.

Odyssey.6523:

The way I read Pure of Sight, it applies to all skills, meaning it is also effective for scepter skills and a few staff skills as well at 1-2 utilities. This means you are no pigeon holed into playing a DH with a long bow.

Scepter is pretty easily dodged from > 600 range, and staff has only 2 skills that work from that distance, one being on a 3s cooldown and also traveling incredibly slowly, and the other being near instant but a static AoE with a 15s cooldown.

The trait is built with the assumption that people should be camping longbow; let’s not kid ourselves with this.

Amineo.8951:

Black Box.9312:

Amineo.8951:

Black Box.9312:

Power Medi Guard actually received a net loss in damage, I believe, particularly sword builds. It’s nice that Bunker Guard is effective again, but for those of us who like actually dealing damage we got shafted pretty hard, and the Dragonhunter is most certainly not going to fix that.

I have fun playing Condi Guard but it’s probably gonna get nerfed so Mesmer PU dominates, hell Mesmer will dominate everywhere, it’s not even funny…

Burning in general needs a nerf if you ask me, and not even really because of Guardian. Once that happens though we’ll be pretty much pigeonholed back into purely defensive builds again, oh joy.

You mean back when we were subpar in comparison to Warrior? I’m so excited! (joke)

Meh, you’re right. If the past is any indication, we’re never going to get the proper attention the class needs, so I guess we’ll just have to settle for the gimmicks that we do get.

Nowhere near worthwhile.

Amineo.8951:

Black Box.9312:

Power Medi Guard actually received a net loss in damage, I believe, particularly sword builds. It’s nice that Bunker Guard is effective again, but for those of us who like actually dealing damage we got shafted pretty hard, and the Dragonhunter is most certainly not going to fix that.

I have fun playing Condi Guard but it’s probably gonna get nerfed so Mesmer PU dominates, hell Mesmer will dominate everywhere, it’s not even funny…

Burning in general needs a nerf if you ask me, and not even really because of Guardian. Once that happens though we’ll be pretty much pigeonholed back into purely defensive builds again, oh joy.

If you’re not careful and don’t stop attacking when your attacks are clearly being blocked, I say it’s completely fair for you to be punished for it. I really don’t see the problem with this.

Power Medi Guard actually received a net loss in damage, I believe, particularly sword builds. It’s nice that Bunker Guard is effective again, but for those of us who like actually dealing damage we got shafted pretty hard, and the Dragonhunter is most certainly not going to fix that.

Lepre.2519:

Black Box.9312:

Silhouette.5631:

What bothers us most isn’t that guardian doesn’t get some attention. What bothers us most is how little the attention the guardian would need to fix 90% of its problems

Honestly, this. The class has so much potential, but just a small handful of silly design choices (a melee class with very limited CC & mobility, the apparent obsession with projectile-based melee attacks, a shield that feels more like a wet noodle than a shield, etc.) are really holding it back so hard, and it really wouldn’t take all that much effort to fix these issues.

Holding it back so hard from what? We are viable in every game mode and are welcomed by all parties. I agree there are things to fix and tweak, but when I’m on my other characters party members regularly ask me to switch to my guardian.

Holding it back so hard from being a class that can actually function without requiring assistance to make up for the glaring flaws it has.

Adamantium.3682:

Black Box.9312:

Rym.1469:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Facets deactivate by running out of energy, using the active skill or invoking a new legend. Switching legends does not cancel facet of nature though, since it is not tied to legendary dragon stance.

Then please add F3 which would cancel all facets.

Without this option, there won’t be much decision-making, timing or energy management – if you press wrong button, you’re pretty much screwed and forced out of Legend/forced to misplay.

This really has to be dealt with ASAP.

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with this. I’d hate to have to put the elite facet on its full cooldown just because I needed 3s of protection to mitigate a burst. Slapping on an F3 command to cancel active facets without putting them on the active skill cooldown would go a long way. If it helps, maybe add an initial energy cost or shorter cooldown to the base facet to prevent spamming, but I definitely would prefer to be able to deactivate them without wasting the active skill in a situation where I wouldn’t need it.

Edit: The censor is so sensitive that I can’t even use the numeric value for the elite facet’s active cooldown. >_>

I think adding F3 to cancel all facets is a “cop out” (not the perfect term but it works). It lets you have the best of both worlds, you could use the passive whenever you want for no cooldown. This is exactly the opposite of how this Legend was presented and intended for use.

It’s not that these are bad ideas in and of themselves, it’s just contrary to everything previewed about how Glint is intended to play.

That’s why I also gave a suggestion for potentially adding either an initial energy cost or a small cooldown for the base facet skill. The problem isn’t that there’s a cost to using the facet, the problem is that the cost for needing 3s of protection is virtually the same as the cost for needing an AoE knockback that deals massive damage.

If you need just the protection for now but need to save the knockback for later when your buddy is being stomped you’re purely SoL unless you want to drain your energy and make yourself absolutely powerless for a good few seconds. It just seems like very poor design choice, and I really hope to see a QoL change to address it.

Silhouette.5631:

What bothers us most isn’t that guardian doesn’t get some attention. What bothers us most is how little the attention the guardian would need to fix 90% of its problems

Honestly, this. The class has so much potential, but just a small handful of silly design choices (a melee class with very limited CC & mobility, the apparent obsession with projectile-based melee attacks, a shield that feels more like a wet noodle than a shield, etc.) are really holding it back so hard, and it really wouldn’t take all that much effort to fix these issues.

Bummer. I was hoping that the longbow would be the one saving grace to the spec, but it seems they couldn’t even manage to get that right.

Makes sense that the bow would suck in melee range though, seeing as whoever designed the Dragonhunter clearly had no intention of using anything that the base class has to offer.

Zenith.7301:

Remove the knockback

Please don’t remove the knockback, that’s literally the only thing shield is currently good for.

Meanwhile, the Revenant gets more team support with a single 15s cooldown shield skill than the Guardian gets with two shield skills on 20s and 25s cooldowns.

Sounds about right.

Rym.1469:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Facets deactivate by running out of energy, using the active skill or invoking a new legend. Switching legends does not cancel facet of nature though, since it is not tied to legendary dragon stance.

Then please add F3 which would cancel all facets.

Without this option, there won’t be much decision-making, timing or energy management – if you press wrong button, you’re pretty much screwed and forced out of Legend/forced to misplay.

This really has to be dealt with ASAP.

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with this. I’d hate to have to put the elite facet on its full cooldown just because I needed 3s of protection to mitigate a burst. Slapping on an F3 command to cancel active facets without putting them on the active skill cooldown would go a long way. If it helps, maybe add an initial energy cost or shorter cooldown to the base facet to prevent spamming, but I definitely would prefer to be able to deactivate them without wasting the active skill in a situation where I wouldn’t need it.

Edit: The censor is so sensitive that I can’t even use the numeric value for the elite facet’s active cooldown. >_>

x indigo x.6981:

Black Box.9312:

Mryul.8165:

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

The problem with burning in its current iteration is that you can essentially use it as burst damage, which defies its role as a condition (damage over time). Yes, you can cleanse it pretty quickly, but classes like Guard, Ele, and Engi can apply it frequently enough in multiple stacks that it’s still going to tick for 2k+ dmg even if it’s cleansed after just one second, and within the next 3 seconds you’ll have all of those stacks right back on you again.

It needs a nerf, not a buff.

It doesn’t need a nerd .. It needs a buff .. What you should be asking for is limit burning access on eles and engis since they have access to many other condis. But to complain about a guard causing burning when it’s literally the only damaging condi he can inflict? That’s just absurd.

I’ll say it once again .. If burn is to be nerfed (I don’t think it should) condi guardian burn needs to be buffed to compensate to the loss on the nerf. ITS OUR ONLY kitten CONDI ! I mean have you seen how Appel a condi ranger, condi engi, condi necro can burst people with condi bombs and how FAST they can reapply them ?? What’s with the a about burning now.

If it’s to be nerfed, the guardian needs to be compensated by making virtue of justice proc apply more stacks not just duration as duration isn’t useful in pvp as stacks are.

Burn Guardian will still have Amplified Wrath, which will partially make up for the lack of other DPS conditions. Since Burn Guard relies on carrion gear anyway, you don’t really need anything else because you should have sufficient power to make up for the rest of it.