stealth, traps, lack of offensive mobility. Huh almost as if our moves are devised to help us GUARD an area
Because we sure aren’t any good at doing that with what we already have, or anything.
1. “Dragonhunter” sounds like it came from the mind of a child no older than 8 yrs.
To some people video games are for kids, using your extremely brilliant logic that you would also make you an 8 year old, since as we know video games are made by kids for kids.
Pot calling kettle black.
Sigh… And here I was thinking that society had finally moved past this stigma. Twice in this thread today I’ve been proven wrong on that.
Before today Guardians were screaming how much they wanted longbow. They get a longbow that works like a longbow. Now everyone is complaining.
What exactly did people think Guardian Longbow was going to be?
I don’t play guard but im pretty sure its obvious that the problem isnt the longbow itself, its the fact that they also gave them traps (and therefore stealth) and bleeds basically turning them into a trapper ranger 2.0 and doesnt sound like a guard at all.
It a mix of professions, they don’t have pets and are not ranger 2.0 you are not limited to LB+traps mix and match how you want or simply don’t get it if you are satisfied with current guardian we have been asking for long range and damage conditions other then burn. It fits right now with our needs and demands the future stream can confirm it, again if you have what you prefer don’t bash on those liking the dragonhunter concept.
You have to admit that there were plenty more unique ways to apply long range and condition builds than by almost literally copy+pasting a ranger skillset. They’re going to have to make these “traps” very NOT trap-like in order for people to want to use them over meditations, consecrations, or shouts.
1. I have heard this a few times today. Time to get off your high horse of maturity…you do play a VIDEO GAME, just dumb to make that correlation. Opinion w/o thought, sure.
Thank you for perpetuating the stereotype of video games being a juvenile hobby. You are a shining example to us all.
It reminds me of a trap ranger.
I have a ranger. I play him when I want to play ranger.
A guardian should not be a ranger.
1. “Dragonhunter” sounds like it came from the mind of a child no older than 8 yrs.
2. Traps are already underwhelming on rangers, and virtually NEVER used on thieves. As if this isn’t enough reason for skepticism already, it was mentioned in one of the recent livestreams that traps are going to be nerfed to have an activation period upon being set, meaning that you won’t be able to set them off by just planting them under an enemy’s feet. You have to set them ahead of time and HOPE that someone is dumb enough to run in it without dodging.
3. Thematically speaking, it’s basically a guardian playing ranger for a day. It feels very uninspired, unoriginal, and doesn’t feel like it’s going to bring anything new and exciting to the table like the chronomancer does.
4. The virtue rework is okay, but should really be baseline, honestly. Not only are they not adding a new virtue, but the reworks feel quite counterintuitive, to be honest. VoJ will no longer proc to allies by the looks of it, VoR will require a leap to heal alllies (as opposed to just, y’know, an instant 1200 radius heal), and while the block looks like it’ll be useful, we really shouldn’t have to trait an elite spec just for a duration-based block. If the spec is meant to be more backline support-oriented, then why are they making our virtues less effective support skills?
If the bow deals decent damage then I can maybe see myself taking it, but there’s no way I’m going to use traps (not wells), and there’s DEFINITELY no way I’m going to refer to my guardian as a “dragonhunter”.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
I don’t mind the name myself. Although I also like some suggestions I’ve heard elsewhere for it like “Dragon Knight” and “Draconeer”.
Plus if Dragonhunter is Guard/Ranger I have this great mental image of Guard/Necro being “Witchhunter”. I don’t mind so much that they didn’t use the other names suggested, I think they should be used for other mash ups. “Zealot” sounds great for a War/Guard, and I like “Paragon” for a Guard/Eng. Not sure what Justicar could fit though.
Sorry, got off topic naming things that don’t exist outside my thoughts.
A Guard/Necro hybrid is already going to be implemented. It’s being called “Revenant”.
Pretty much anything that isn’t a complete rehash of an existing class. I’d have loved to see something focused on CC. Or maybe a condition build that focused around the use of burning and torment. I feel like there’s a huge missed opportunity in not giving guardians access to torment. The idea of a guardian getting into someone’s mind and inflicting torment by having them contemplate their wrongdoings sounds really cool, and way more original and unique than this Dragonhunter crap.
How about the name: BetterRanger
InB4 it’s not even better than ranger.
You guys do realize they’re doing the same thing for everyone? Mesmers are getting Wells – which used to be Necromancers. Guardians are getting Traps. Mesmer wells are thematically different from Necromancer wells, so expect the same.
The chronomancer may have wells, which originated with the necro, but the spec itself looks nothing like a necro clone. It has its own new profession mechanic, and it takes a shield, which was not inspired by the necro.
This just looks like they took a guardian to ranger school for a day and called it good. EVERYTHING about it just screams ranger with blue glowy effects.
I’m so glad that both of my guard’s Bolt and Flameseeker can be inherited by my mesmer.
Same, although for me it’ll be Bolt and Eternity. Maybe I’ll have to get a FSP; it’s one of my favorite legendaries but I never got it because lol guardian shield.
In the video a little barrier trap activates that traps the dino in a little cage of light. That’s pretty cool imo and fits the overall guardian theme well.
That’s not a trap, it was a longbow skill. There’s a very clear barrage-type cast animation to be seen.
Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.
That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.
Not sure what you expected when they said they were going to be re-using other class utility types… Beyond that you have no idea what the skills will even do. o.o
With the chronomancer, mesmer is receiving a new buff (alacrity), a new profession mechanic addition (F5 shatter), a shield with more blocks than the guardian shield (the irony continues), and the option for more team-support oriented builds.
By contrast, the dragonhunter is giving the guardian nothing new except for traps, which are already lackluster on the classes that currently have it, and a longbow which looks like it could be nice, but is really dependent on whether or not it will do decent damage. The LEAST they could have done would be to add a 4th virtue to give us something else new for people who aren’t interested in the longbow or traps.
The leap sounds like it could be neat, but I can only imagine it being used offensively as a gap closer, honestly. I really wish they would have given us a 4th virtue to tinker with instead, and just made these changes baseline so that virtues feel more important.
Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.
That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.
Guardians already have great area denial in the form of symbols. The PROBLEM is that we have no means to keep enemies in them. Traps are not going to be of any use because it’s just more of what we already have, but even easier to avoid.
You realize many traps deliver their full effect instantaneously? You don’t need to “keep enemies in them.” If their benefits are scaled correctly they’ll be better than symbols.
They’re also completely nullified by a single dodge. Unless you plant it ahead of time when the enemy isn’t looking, you’re not gonna get much out of it.
Necro Marks can also be dodge through, yet almost every Necromancer build out there uses a staff.
Marks also are ground targeted, and will activate instantly if cast underneath a target. Traps currently do neither of these (other than if you trait ground targeting for rangers, but it seems like they will be getting rid of that anyway).
Anything except dragonhunter.
Guardians already have great area denial in the form of symbols. The PROBLEM is that we have no means to keep enemies in them. Traps are not going to be of any use because it’s just more of what we already have, but even easier to avoid.
You realize many traps deliver their full effect instantaneously? You don’t need to “keep enemies in them.” If their benefits are scaled correctly they’ll be better than symbols.
They’re also completely nullified by a single dodge. Unless you plant it ahead of time when the enemy isn’t looking, you’re not gonna get much out of it.
Guardians already have great area denial in the form of symbols. The PROBLEM is that we have no means to keep enemies in them. Traps are not going to be of any use because it’s just more of what we already have, but even easier to avoid.
Because we know so much, what traps are doing, therefore the right choice is to better start QQing right away!
What was that chain-thingy keeping the dragon in place? Probably only a display bug, can’t be that there is something immobilizing people -.- QQ
That looked like it was a longbow skill, actually, given the channeling animation. I’d say people have the right to be skeptical about the use of traps considering how under-utilized they currently are on the two classes that feature them already.
They won’t work out great. It’s quite simple to beat a trapper build, you just don’t walk in it. We have disappointing skills and a disappointing weapon, no need for the “hey it may not be entirely useless” stuff.
You know, that you can (currently) throw the traps on the target to let them proc instantly?
Another great idea is to just stand ontop of them, so if a melee wants to attack you, he will get hit … wow, who would have thought of that?Edit: Even just using them for stealth and superspeed through the runes makes low CD traps a great survivalability utility.
Yeah, not to mention wells get used. Wells are the same kitten thing but slower for full effect and WAY more visible. I think people are being silly honestly. If this class was named something else the mood would be much different.
Guardians already have great area denial in the form of symbols. The PROBLEM is that we have no means to keep enemies in them. Traps are not going to be of any use because it’s just more of what we already have, but even easier to avoid.
You guys already have strong positions in pvp, pve, and wvw. Why aren’t you excited about getting specialisation skills that make your class more intricate and unique. Or would you prefer adding another 5 shouts to your utility bar?
I was dreading the thought of guardian getting the 6 shout spec. In hindsight, I would have preferred it to what we are getting.
I find that incredibly sad.
they should never have called it traps… they belong to the ranger domain… rangers are the hunters… not guardians…
specialization should not be mixing classes together… especially in this case, it is an outright copy and dump… with a less than desirable name…
I think this is what I’m MOST disappointed about. The chronomancer feels like it’s unique, and new, and exciting, and most importantly something totally different than anything we have currently.
THIS feels like they seriously took a guardian to ranger school for a day. If I wanted to play like a ranger I’d play my ranger. Why don’t we get to have something unique too?
Gaining stealth is not worth taking traps AND this rune set over utilities and runes that will actually be useful.
I wanted axe over longbow, but I figured that guardian could make good use of a ranged alternative to scepter.
But godkitten , was I not expecting something as disappointing as a “Dragonhunter” with traps.
This reveal diminishes my hopes not just for the Guardian but for the rest of the professions to come.
Pretty much this. I was so excited after seeing the Chronomancer, but now all of that hype is totally gone.
Because we needed more static AoE that people can just not run into, right?
/smh
Dragonhunter…
I would not have guessed that. o_O
Rewarding a random sample is in poor taste.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Black Box.9312
Wait..
So..OP is mad that people that had a discountinued version of the game had to be compensated because anet switched the type of accounts they had?You realize how petty this sounds?
It was a bug, anet fixed it, end of story.Life isn’t fair, nor will it ever be.
Secondly, not every beta tester got a heroic chest, only people that had old, discontinued versions of the game.
Grow the kitten up
Clearly you and I are not on the same page.
That’s my suggestion Thaddeus, remove the healing ticks and make it a Master in Zeal to fit the symbol theme that Zeal represents. It still feels like even with the merging of the symbol traits that PoV will still be the superior option to support Guardians regardless so I see this being left in the dust.
Honestly, I’m of the opinion that PoV has been obsolete ever since they “fixed” it back to one condition per shout. I think running two shouts with soldier/trooper runes along with Purging Flames and healing symbols is more effective. I know I’ll be running WoP over PoV on my reworked bunker build, at least.
Scrap the shield and go mace/focus.
Inagoodplacerightnow
I would literally cry.
Rewarding a random sample is in poor taste.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Black Box.9312
Yes it is. The intention and the contents are both irrelevant. Players who were invited to participate in the beta received a bonus item that players who were not picked for the beta did not receive, and that’s poor practice.
Ok, read careful and try to understand…
I understand perfectly what the reasoning was. But you don’t seem to understand that it’s still giving preferential treatment to a random sample, regardless of whether or not that was the intention.
Rewarding a random sample is in poor taste.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Black Box.9312
It’s still just rewarding people that were in the randomly sampled beta test.
It’s NOT a reward…
Yes it is. The intention and the contents are both irrelevant. Players who were invited to participate in the beta received a bonus item that players who were not picked for the beta did not receive, and that’s poor practice.
Rewarding a random sample is in poor taste.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Black Box.9312
Source? If this is the case I’d have appreciated it if this were made more clear from the outset, because I frequent these forums as well as the GW2 subreddit and receive emails regarding the game, and none of these sources had told me anything about this. I, like many others, took to asking others what the cause was, and it seemed to be a common consensus that players who participated in the stress test were the ones receiving the in-game mail.
There you go.
It’s still just rewarding people that were in the randomly sampled beta test. It should stand to reason that for the sake of consistency, they should upgrade ALL accounts that have the discontinued SKU.
The problem is
1: The last auto attack can often miss enemies
2: the last auto attack works as a ranged attack but does not count as one, thus it can be reflected
3: The number 3 skill projectiles are slow & can be easily avoided by anything outside of melee range
4: Despite saying it’s a block the number 3 skill doesn’t actually block anything it absorbs. This means there are allot of traits it does not interact with.
5: Even if all the attacks hit the number 3 skill is a DPS loss when compared to the auto attack.
6: The auto attack cleave is incredibly small, enemies literally have to be standing on top of each other to hit multiple targets. (this also makes it miss vs strafing enemies.
The first 2 attacks in the chain are like anything else, they have a normal arc. The last one is a 300 range, piercing, projectile attack. It’s more like a cone then an arc, this is probably to balance the fact that it has better range and damage(if it had a large arc then you couldn’t hit 1 person with all 3 projectiles unless on top of them). Zealot’s defense projectiles do suck if you’re chasing someone, you really want to use it on CC’d enemies or to block ranged attacks. And you wouldn’t want to use it if there are 2 enemies next to each other because it doesn’t pierce. I’m sure they could do something to guardian sword but it doesn’t seem to be in a terrible spot.
The issue is that many of us don’t want it to be a projectile attack. For whatever reason, most of the guardian’s melee weapons were designed with the idea of using projectile-based attacks from melee range, which does nothing but hinder the class considerably against foes with personal projectile reflection. It would be more beneficial to scrap the triple hit on a single target in favor of a single hit on 3 targets IMO, because then it would at least be a reliable melee weapon.
Rewarding a random sample is in poor taste.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Black Box.9312
Nothing in this surprise mini-bonus is so uniquely amazing or impossible to get that anyone should feel “slapped” for not receiving it, in my opinion. I’d be saying that even if I hadn’t been one of the old accounts that got brought up to date.
It’s more about the principle than it is about the contents of the gift. If two people want to participate in an activity, and you randomly choose one of them, it’s almost insulting to then further reward the participant with a bonus souvenir just to “thank them for participating”. The participation IS the reward already.
If you read carefully, their account was upgraded to the Heroic Edition because the game edition these players had previously is not offered for sale anymore. The basic edition is now the Heroic edition. So when they wanted to downgrade their beta tester’s beta game edition to their previous one, that was the easiest way to do it.
If a player already had the heroic edition or a better one, he probably received nothing.
Source? If this is the case I’d have appreciated it if this were made more clear from the outset, because I frequent these forums as well as the GW2 subreddit and receive emails regarding the game, and none of these sources had told me anything about this. I, like many others, took to asking others what the cause was, and it seemed to be a common consensus that players who participated in the stress test were the ones receiving the in-game mail.
imho in order for sword to actually work it needs a few things
3rd auto attack chain made into something useful which cannot be reflected back in your face
higher damage on AA or a condi (pref cripple/chill/weakness)
skill 2 to have an aoe chill so we can follow up better
skill 3 needs to cast a symbol doesnt matter what it is (could also be the same for scepter’s skill 2)
skill 3 needs to do more than just absorb projectiles but block it to trigger on block effects as a poster here noted.
right now scepter is just better…even mace is better
Definitely agree that the guardian needs either a chill or cripple.
That being said I think it should be a trait.
There should also be another trait in the same slot area that gives you the choice of a cripple/chill or torment on blind/burn.
That way physical damage builds & condi builds get some love.
“Searing Tendons” – Apply cripple when you burn a foe. 10s ICD.
There. The dumb “cripple doesn’t fit the guardian theme” problem solved.
Rewarding a random sample is in poor taste.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Black Box.9312
Giving heroic chests via in-game mail to players who participated in the previous HoT stress test is a bit of a slap in the face to those who were eager to get in but did not receive access. It’s a bit like paying people for having their names drawn from a hat.
Hopefully this doesn’t become a trend.
The current guardian meta is an offensive build because defensive guardian builds have been consistently nerfed for being “too strong”.
That’s not the reason why the traditional AH Bunker Guard was pushed out of the meta at all. Guardian rarely got neither buffs nor nerfs. Pure bunker roles as a whole were pushed out of the meta due to the lack of flexibility compared to bruisers like D/D Ele, Shoutbow and Cele Rifle Engi where everyone on the team can freely rotate to where they’re needed the most due to being able to both do damage and bunker points to some extent.
Although they did receive nerfs to things like Save Yourselves and Selfless Daring, perhaps it’d be more accurate to say that bunker guardian builds got indirectly nerfed. Point is that bunker guardians have never been able to deal adequate damage other than maybe before the PvP retal nerf, but when the game was first starting out they were the de facto defenders. Anet decided that they didn’t like that there was no competition for this role, so they buffed the defensive capabilities of other classes. All the while, they did very little to compensate on the part of the guardian, who still has to trait very heavily into defensive lines and sacrifice any sort of decent damage in order to compete in the first place.
THAT is why defensive guardians fell out of the meta. Medi guard is only really a thing because it counters other zerker builds. It can’t do much against a d/d ele or celestial engi.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
Guardian already has support flying out their butt.
Spec’s are supposed to add something new & what the class desperately lacks is
1: CC
2: Ranged damage potential
3: ConditionsIf they want to toss some ranged support on fine, but it really needs those 3 things
If their support is so great, why is their meta build generally selfish? :p
I don’t believe guardians need any of those things (especially not conditions), but the ability to do things at a range sounds very fun. As such, I hope it allows one to support from a long range as well as deal damage from a long range.
Personally, I also hope it lets me further give up selfish defense for more support. I couldn’t care less about being tanky.
The current meta guardian build is a selfish DPS build because the bunker/support builds have been consistently nerfed, both directly and indirectly, since launch for being “too powerful”.
Hopefully the Guardian bow will be party support and not DPS. Imagine long range AoE healing arrows. Or blinding arrows. Or arrows that lay down protective fields. That would be much cooler than just rehashing the thief, ranger, and warrior bow skills.
No thank you. I’d much rather have a DPS-oriented weapon. Guardians already sacrifice way too much in the name of “support”.
The support capability is what separates Guardians from warriors.
The expansions should emphasize what makes the classes different instead of making them all homogenous and clones of each other
No, what separates guardians from warriors is the fact that guardians use light and fire magic, whereas warriors rely on physical prowess. Balance needs to be placed in front of theme, and right now guardian already HAS enough support elements in a game that isn’t even very support-friendly in the first place.
Hopefully the Guardian bow will be party support and not DPS. Imagine long range AoE healing arrows. Or blinding arrows. Or arrows that lay down protective fields. That would be much cooler than just rehashing the thief, ranger, and warrior bow skills.
No thank you. I’d much rather have a DPS-oriented weapon. Guardians already sacrifice way too much in the name of “support”.
..A med guardian with a bow…just what we needed…
Keep in mind that the elite spec will only leave you with two other specs to choose from, and also that it will feature an entirely new skillset. It could very well be incorporated into an entirely different build instead.
https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/595256909587951616
Looks like this is official confirmation that it will feature a bow, as well.
Sword’s autoattack is actually higher DPS than mace. The problem is the fact that the third hit of the chain is a melee-range projectile that doesn’t cleave.
That being said, however, the mobility it offers is really what makes it so appealing. Mace and GS aren’t much good against an enemy on the move.
Anyone know how Virtue of Justice will be with the burning changes?
I’m a bit worried about this as well, honestly. It’s hard to say what will happen with guardian’s burning upkeep, and by association Fiery Wrath upkeep, without knowing how they’re going to change VoJ to compensate for the change to burning.
Guardians already have support coming out the butt.
I really hope the new spec will be decently offensive with some good CC.
Otherwise they are just giving the guardian more of what it already has.
Considering that the current guardian meta is a fairly selfish meditation build, I disagree. The specialization should be supportive, but offer a different kind of support than what shouts do (the longbow is a good start already).
The current guardian meta is an offensive build because defensive guardian builds have been consistently nerfed for being “too strong”. I’d be all for something offensive with CC, because it’s way too easy to kite a medi guard.
Oh and is anyone else annoyed that the Mesmer’s Shield can block? Why the satire humor Anet!?
Yep.