Guild Wars 2

I think part of the issue is the change of direction ANET made when they decided to go the expansion route.

I saw this mentioned in another thread, but thought it fit well in this discussion instead – what if, instead of selling us expansions, ANET sold season passes instead – that gave you access to everything developed in the next 18 months (that followed a specific story arc), freeing up all of their developers (and giving them the resources needed) to continue fleshing out the living world rather than the content drop → content drought → content drop → content drought – ad infinitum we are seeing now?

I think it would be a much much better method than what we are seeing now.

This will come across cynical, but I think they are just using the “quality versus quantity” cliché to justify the new, much slower, approach to content delivery.

Seasons one and two brought us some of the best content Ive ever seen in an MMO – Molten Facility, Aetherblade Retreat, Guild Missions, Fractals, Southsun, Marionette, Tower of Nightmares, the burning and rebuilding of LA, Glint’s Lair, Drytop, Silverwastes, Triple Trouble, Aetherpath, the fight against the nightmare dragon, just to name a few examples.

So, when they claim that the delay is to improve quality, that is the content we need to measure that quality against (and quantity given the time they are taking, imo).

So expectations need to be astronomical in scale at this point, because they have set the bar really high with the quality of their past work.

I expect:

• multiple new maps (at least 2) that rival Silverwastes in terms of fun/replayability/scale,
• story steps at the level of Glint’s Lair, Fort Salma or the final fight against the nightmare,
• world events on the scale of the LA invasion/reacquisition,
• new PVE guild missions (12-24 of them) that make the old ones feel mediocre
• Multiple fractals (4-6 of them) based on obscure historic events with mechanics and foes we haven’t seen before (ala Thaumanova Reactor)
• World bosses (at least 2) that require the coordination of the Marionette or even Triple Trouble

I expect these things because ANET has delivered on these things – and MUCH MORE – using the old living story model. If they are taking this much more time (MONTHS with nothing new to do) to deliver new content, then that content needs to be a level above the amazing content they have delivered in the past (because of their quality takes more time claim).

I love this freaking game. Since day one, I have been what many would call (and many did call) a white knight on the forums – passing out praise and arguing against detractors. I do not like the direction they have chosen to go in 2016. It is destroying the living world and creating a boring stale world with nothing new to do.

This claim that we have to wait 11 months between the expansion and living story because they need to up the quality level (over some of the examples I list above) feels hollow and more like an excuse to reallocate developers toward the same tired business model every other AAA MMO uses. It will cost them players – not all at once, but this game was obviously designed to center around the concept of the living story – and they are leaving it behind.

Ashen.2907:

How would other people feel if raids had an easy mode
which offered rewards on a par with dungeons?

I think most casual GW2 players would be perfectly fine with the idea of a less intensive experience with reduced reward.

Players who tackle the harder content should have a way of showing that off. As long as it doesn’t offer a power advantage (because all of this gear can be used in WvW), then I don’t see an issue.

As I’ve said before, I would fully support a tiered reward system based on how fast a group downed the boss. In the case of the Vale Guardian for example, kill in 8 minutes and earn gold status, which offers full access to everything their now; kill in 8-10 minutes and earn silver status, which offers access to ascended weapon/armor purchases and minis (but not the unique raid skin weapons) and kill in more than 10 minutes to earn bronze status, which gives a champion loot box and minis.

I think most people would find that very fair – and welcome the opportunity to take a greater variety of builds and player commitment levels to the content.

Yes, I know that a new story chapter is coming, but in the meantime, the world remains static – unchanged – for most of the year.

Every MMO has a story (or at least most do) – that isn’t the living world. Living World means the world feels alive – changing and growing regularly through new adventures, adversaries and heroic tasks. Whether you see it as a good or bad thing, that isn’t happening anymore – and will not be based on what we heard in the AMA.

Every (most) AAA mmos do major content drops between expansions. Most players are familiar with WoW raids, but Blizzard regularly gives players new maps/dungeons/etc as part of the non-expansion schedule as well – and have since the game came out. Pick just about any other AAA MMO and you will likely find the same.

What set GW2 apart from those games is that they historically tried to deliver that content in an organic form – giving the impression that the world was not static. While they didn’t always succeed at that task, it did (for a time) serve to keep many of us continually entertained and invested in the game.

Yes, we are getting a chapter 3 of the GW2 story, but it isn’t being delivered in that organic sense – nor are they even attempting to do anything other than what every other AAA MMO is doing with their content drops. It isn’t a living world any longer.

Maybe change the name of this section to Story Chapters or something like that, but what we are seeing in the game now is not a living story by any serious definition of the term.

I’m not advocating any particular season of living world or saying we should go back to the season one model. It just seems like they currently have abandoned even trying to create the feel of a living world in the game (instead relying on the rare feature drop approach every other AAA MMO takes), which I find disheartening.

It felt like they were fine tuning it and continually trying to hone the idea, but, now, it just feels like they’ve given up on it. If that is the case, there really is no need for this sub forum any longer.

Honest question – do players think the new model they outlined in the AMA a few weeks ago qualifies as living world? To me, the living world meant ongoing changes that made the game feel like it was growing alongside my character – even if those changes were small.

It really feels like they have made the decision to abandon the living world concept (that was the core of the game at launch) in lieu of an less intensive development path. What they have outlined is the same tired model every other game uses – and definitely not giving the feel of a living, changing world any longer.

I just don’t see the point of having a forum section dedicated to Living World when there really is no longer a living world in the game.

This post hits the issue I’m experiencing with the recent game direction head on.

The developers have moved further away from the idea of an online world that was continually changing (eg, giving us something new to do on a regular basis) and more toward the same tired model every other AAA MMO uses.

It is now less about the player’s story (“This is my story”) than it’s ever been and that is disappointing.

The developers need to read Vayne’s post closely and, in my opinion, realize they are rapidly drifting away from their core customers – and trying to force fit tired content models they have seen bring customers into other MMOs into a game they were never designed to be a part of. In summary, they need to get back to the basics and philosophy that made this game amazing.

The problem is that Anet took an inclusive stance with every other element of the game. They didn’t care what the other AAA MMOs were doing – they cared about all of their players.

With raids, all they have done is copy/paste the same old tired model used by other MMOs. Anet is better than this and should have tapped into that same spirit of innovation and anti-status quo to make raids unique to the GW2 model. While the fight mechanics are interesting, the implementation of raids in GW2 is a disappointment and (YES) enough to say that ANET has lost its focus. That may seem dramatic and alarmist, but the fact is that many of the players who enjoyed the game in the months following the launch are now shaking their heads wondering what the hell is going on with this game.

I have avoided this thread for a few days because it has become what these threads always become – a highly polarized argument in which the two sides have no hope of changing anyone’s mind.

I think the single biggest reason this is being discussed right now is the inexcusable lack of new content in other parts of the game. Raids aren’t for everyone, but right now, they are the only thing ANET is putting out (and will most likely be the only thing they put out until late into 2016). People are – rightfully so, imo – concerned about that. The current open world and living story content will not keep people entertained until May, much less July or August.

So, the alternative is, if raids are all we are getting for the majority of 2016, then those raids need to appeal to a much wider audience than they currently do – meaning there needs to be a way for casual players to experience the content – much like there is a way for them to experience fractals (lower levels) – without destroying the experience, or the reward, for more dedicated players (of which I am one, for the record – I am raiding regularly).

The very idea of this seems to make those more dedicated players angry. They have a special corner of the game that they can call all their own. I can kind of relate to that sentiment, but retaining the exclusivity of that corner isn’t worth the toll it will take on the game as a whole.

In my opinion, if raiding is going to be an ongoing part of the game, one of two things has to happen. Either ensure that the open world, living story, guild missions, fractals, etc are continually added at a regular pace – giving those audiences something to do when they log in; or start giving those audiences a low(er) stress experience to do in 10 player (raid) environments. I still say it can be done without killing the experience for everyone else.

It is hard keeping diverse groups of players entertained. The reality is, Anet is failing to do so right now and that is causing a backlash. They need to address that root issue, either through picking up the pace in other parts of the game or adding to the raiding experience (or both).

Difficulty does not have to come from multiple modes or instances. GW2 has a really good system already in place – the gold/silver/bronze system we see in open world. In the case of the Vale Guardian, it might be as simple as

• 8 minute kill = gold (full rewards)

• 10 minute kill – silver (access to minis and standard ascended chests via) vendor

• more than 10 minute kill = bronze (no access to vendor – just a champ box like any other world kill).

I realize this could take more effort than I envision (not a programmer), but it is just one example of a middle ground between completely redoing instances to make them easier and doing nothing (and addressing the effort = reward arguments as well).

As always, really appreciate the openness and hard work the developers put into the game. Know that we wouldn’t be making noise if we didn’t care about GW2.

Beorn Raukar.4328:

The harm it would do is that it would completely destroy the entire concept of Raiding. It is entirely based on the difficulty it has and by undermining that difficulty it would destroy everything they are built upon. Again, no one is excluded from raiding like in other games all it takes is the desire to do it.

This is your personal definition of raiding – nothing more. Googling MMO Raid, the best definition I found was “players banding together to succeed at a common goal- such as taking over territory, killing an opposing faction, or most commonly killing big scary internet monsters that drop coveted items.”

Even other MMOs with extensive raiding histories really dont go much further than that in defining the term.

The point is, the definition itself has nothing to do with difficulty. The idea that if it isn’t difficult, it cant be called a raid is silly.

What it should be is simple – a multi person (usually more than 5) instance with some fun fights inside – the one thing I’m sure we can all agree upon.

If there is a way to make that content accessible to all players – WITHOUT REDUCING THE DIFFICULTY of the experience you are currently having – then there is no down side. It doesn’t “corrupt the integrity” or “change the definition,” it simply adds more content to the game.

And, for the record, I am fully behind having difficult content in the game. In fact, I think there should a wider range of difficulties in all PVE areas of the game – from living story to open world to fractals to (yes) raids.

I think one of the most important topics we can discuss, as a community with the developers, is difficulty level. Is there a place for ultra difficult encounters in open world? What would they look like? Is the current game difficult enough/too difficult/just right? How can they improve the 5 player instance experience? Should raids offer something across difficulty levels/for varying player skills? What kind of achievements can offer difficulty scaling in LS instances? Which should and should not be required for ascended level rewards?

The other topic I think they have to cover is, of course, World vs World. By their own admission, it isn’t where it should be. I’m sure more visibility and a frank discussion between players and developers would be appreciated.

It is time for ANET to realize, despite their best intentions, that there is a real issue here – one that needs to be addressed and fixed sooner rather than later – even if it means postponing the third wing of the current raid.

And, to be clear, I do not think raiding itself is the issue here. The issue is about the general design and direction of the game itself. At launch, GW2 was a huge success. I believe a big part of that success came because the game offered a fresh content model that was in stark contrast to other AAA MMOs. It brought players together in huge open world activities (both in PVE and WvW). Within that world, there were a variety of challenges and fun things to do. Instanced content was seen as an aside – and always something that anyone could jump into at any time.

Raiding, in the form they have chosen to release it, turns the game away from that direction. It also happens to happen (by design or not) during the longest open world content drought the game has ever seen.

ANET needs to get back to that original philosophy of inclusion and community building. That doesnt mean that raids cannot have an ultra difficult mode – it just means that the ultra-difficult mode CANNOT be the only mode.

Earlier, I outlined a concept for scaling raids based on a simple gold/silver/bronze reward system (just like we saw at game launch) that would allow raids to retain that difficulty while still offering a path forward for the general population – all without making major (or in many cases, any) changes to how the current fights are designed or scaled.

I really do not see what harm it would do – and it really is time the ANET team accepted that something has to be done sooner rather than later. This is an amazing game that I play with many old and many new friends. I hope we are all still here 10 years from now.

Regardless of which side of this argument you fall on, I think we can all agree – based on what we see in both the forums and in game – this topic has split the community and created a bit of a “rock and hard place” situation for ANET.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes them to actually respond and what they actual do.

Thaddeus.4891:

TexZero.7910:

You must not be reading the same thread i am then, where in people are indeed asking for them to gut the raids by adding an easy mode.

ADDING an easy mode. You still have the normal mode, which is as hard as the current raid. The raid would still be 100% the same. There is just another mode that is easier with less reward.

This 100%.

No one is asking anyone to gut the current content or take away the challenge raiders currently have.

More people playing a game mode = more incentive for the developers to keep that game mode alive and healthy. That seems like something all raiders should get behind.

TexZero.7910:

RyanCid.9270:

Rising Dusk.2408:

ANet is devoting more than 98% of its development effort on content and features outside of raids. If players move on to other games knowing that, then that’s their prerogative. ANet knows who their largest audience is, and will be working to support them in the coming months.

I did not come here to argue how ANet is supposed to distribute their resources.
Sorry for straying off the topic.

I stay by my arguments. I don’t see how a slightly longer enrage timer or what Blaeys.3102 mentioned requires any large amount of resources but I’m also not a game developer.

It was a simple Idea and I will leave it at that.

It’s the fact that none of the current encounters need a longer enrage timer. They are all easy enough to complete within the timer so long as you are willing to put in the time and effort.

Let’s not forget Raids are Challenging content, making them easier content is really an affront to their design and intent. Most of the calls for an easy mode (not saying yours) still want equal loot for half the effort, and that’s just not right by any means.

Actually most that I see are just interested in being able to experience the content itself, which is a fair request (and there are ways to do it without compromising design or belittling the effort of harder core raiders).

Thaddeus.4891:

True, but like me you have a team with your. A lot of people don’t have that and need to rely on pugs. By relying on pug, they can’t improve 3 hours a weeks for several weeks. For those players, each week they try the raid, they don’t know if they gonna have a decent team that will allow them to progress or not. Maybe they will be lucky this time and get into a team that are on the same level as you, or you gonna have a team with not enough experience to complete the first boss. From time to time, most player might be happy to help other new players, but maybe they will end up on those type of team week after week. That’s why people are picky about their pugs and ask full ascended, even if they can complete it without full ascended, or that they ask for insight.

And of course then you have new players in raid that then need to create learning group to improve. But once they improve themselves and they are ready to take on VG how will they do that? They can’t go into veteran group because they don’t have insight. But if they do a learning group then they might have a bunch of new players won’t kill VG.

Another option to create a group from scratch and it’s actually the best solution for most of these people. But that can take time. I’m the one organizing our raid group and most of them are my personal friends. I have their phone numbers, I have them on facebook and we know each other in real life. And It can still be hard to make everything work. One week that guy is outside of town, the other night someone is sick and we have to find someone else quick, the other week our Druid is not here and we now need someone new to the role that need to craft another gear, etc. If I ran into all these problem with my friend, they will be worst with a bunch of 10 strangers.

That’s a lot of barrier and it’s not honest to toss them aside as they do not exist and do not push a lot of people out of raid. As a raider I want more people to raid because that might mean that instead of 5-6 devs, they could put 10-15 of them. Look the amazing raid 5-6 devs were able to create and now imagine if they could double or triple that numbers.

I think this is a very well thought out and bipartisan response.

To me, there are two questions that can be (and should be) discussed.

The first is, what the hell is taking so long with all of the other non-raiding related content?

While many (including myself) have been quick to link that delay to raid development and a change in development philosophy, there may be (and probably are) deeper issues involved.

It doesn’t change the fact, however, that we are experiencing the longest content drought (other than raids) in the game’s history – which is something they need to address and fix sooner rather than later.

The second, and one you express eloquently, is “how can ANET make raids more appealing and accessible to more players?”

I think this one is important, but it is also extremely hard to discuss without people getting defensive and, in some cases, aggressive. There is a subset out there that want raids to be their thing – something special separated by a difficulty barrier from the masses. While I can kinda understand that, it doesn’t make sense from a business or community building perspective.

Bottom line, the only way to open raids to more players is to offer some kind of difficulty scaling. The hard part is doing that without taking away the special feeling the more hardcore players get when they do something unique. I still think that is possible (through scaling rewards – most notably some kind of gold/silver/bronze system).

I know me saying this will be unpopular with many people (even some of the people I raid with), but if the goal is to make raiding more popular – and justify it’s position in the GW2 end game, then it really is the only practical solution, no matter how easy or accessible some people feel the content is now.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Raids are already very accessible, there’s just this public stigma that it’s somehow impossibly difficult or takes insane amounts of time and so only elite players can experience the content. They’re even going to make the raids more accessible once they revamp the LFG tool to have sections for them.

For context, my extremely casual guild group spends less than 3 hours a week playing raids, and we’ve gotten through the entirety of wing 1 so far. All it takes is the willingness to adapt; half of us don’t even have appropriate ascended gear.

From what I’ve seen in game (as someone who raids regularly – and successfully – as well), this is not the case for most raiding groups.

I understand you do not see this as an issue, but for many it very much is. The problem isnt necessarily the difficulty of the fights, but rather the restrictive nature of 10 man grouping systems (which arent worth rehashing here).

We are in the middle of what looks to be an 11 month drought on any real substantial content other than raiding – that is the issue at hand here. You can justify by saying “the raid development team is smaller” or “raids are really easy, noobs,” but that doesn’t change that, for the longest period in the game’s history, there is nothing new for huge portions of the game population.

For many fights, adding an easier mode would probably be as simple as removing the enrage timer and replacing it with the tried and true “gold, silver, bronze” reward system.

For example – kill VG in 8 minutes, get gold (which rewards as it does now); kill in 10 minutes, get silver (can buy minis and ascended chests from vendor but not unique gear); kill in more than 10 minutes, get bronze (no purchases from vendor, but do get a champ bag and ability to move to next boss).

I dont expect to see anything happen anytime soon, but it would be a nice to do for the larger GW2 community.

tattyana.2356:

I’m not saying raids are bad I’m just saying make raids Lil more accessible to the masses something like wow did or something clever with an Anet spin on it this way that content isn’t being wasted.

Especially considering, based on the AMA last week, we are looking at a potential 11- month release window where the only new substantial content will be raid related (including major story elements). It doesn’t make sense and makes me think that ANET is either out of touch with their customers or very disorganized and directionless at this point.

The one saving grace is that ANET does have a history of actually listening to players on the forums and REDDIT. People need to keep this topic alive.

Danikat.8537:

What if they created a completely original story with new characters and villains (which as far as I know everyone assumed they had until now)?

Wouldn’t people who don’t get to play the raid be missing out on that?

They would have been better off using the “broken reality” theme from fractals – meaning that the story for that content really doesn’t matter. Most raiders dont care about story anyway, in my experience.

The biggest issue, imo, is that, following HOT, EVERYTHING new has been about raiding, and looks to be until at least July (probably later). Raiding is looking to be the sole release focus (regardless of the team size) for almost 11 months of the game. It is a disheartening direction many of us abhor for the game. Now the story is part of that focus as well?

It seems like the devs have really lost touch and are now taking the same easy path every other AAA MMO is taking (making GW2 potentially just another meh me-too MMO, imo).

NOTE: I say these things as someone who is actively raiding in the new content. Raiding has a place – I (and many others) are just unhappy with how much it is apparently taking from the rest of the game (and it doesn’t matter how many people are on the rading dev team – it is the current perception based on what is being released).

This is really is disappointing and disheartening. Hopefully, they are paying attention to posts like this one – and those on reddit – and realize the error before it continues too much further.

Renkku.7451:

It could still be that the Anet is just teasing us. Maybe this is just an opening for the story that will begin in living story 3 or 4.

The bigger issue is that this is a significant reveal that only a small percentage of players will get to be a part of – outside of a youtube video. You can’t unring that bell.

It really is about balance and spreading things out.

Based on what we learned last week, it will be close to a year after HOT before we see a single substantial update including anything other than raid content. While raids can have a place in the game, what we are currently seeing isn’t good for the game, it will result in eventual population drops and it should not be acceptable to anyone.

Expansion one (HOT) was about building foundational systems upon which to release new content. So, first and foremost, the new expansion should focus almost exclusively on new content rather new systems. This time around, they can put more energy into actual content.

With that in mind, I would expect it to look something like this:

- new story arc
- 5-8 new maps
- 1-2 new specializations for each profession
- 12 to 15 new fractals
- Expansive additions to guild missions (10 new bounties, 3 new puzzles, 5-8 new challenges, etc)
- 4-5 new pvp maps
- New legendaries
- New dynamic events on every map (including old tyria)
- Two new world bosses + new elder dragon map
- One new raid

That said, I think the LS update in July should look similar to this, with new stories, 1 or 2 new world maps, updates to guild missions and new dynamic events/world bosses – maybe about half of what we would see in an expansion.

They have put their foundation in place. From here on out, we should be looking for content first and foremost.

The biggest issue comes down to priorities and resources.

Yes, they say the raid team is small and that raids aren’t taking over the end game developer resources, but the anecdotal evidence points down a much different path. Since HOT, the only new content added to the game has been in the form of raids. Now we hear that the next two content updates will also be raiding focused, and, that, only after those are out, will be see new story instances – and what looks to be a single new fractal map. To add to that, the WvW overhaul will now come in the form of minor updates spread over a longer period of time.

Just as disconcerting, there is no talk of new maps (ala Silverwastes/Drytop/Southsun), new guild missions, new pvp maps, new minigames, new hall upgrades, etc. Some of these items haven’t seen new content in one or more years (more than 2 years in the case of missions), yet there are three updates in 5 months dedicated solely to raiding.

Regardless of their rhetoric, the game focus is currently very clearly on raids, to the detriment of everything else (exactly like every other MMO out there).

I don’t think raids are inherently bad for an MMO – but when they put such a heavy focus on them, they most definitely can hurt the game – especially if they only come in one difficulty mode.

I worry that GW2 will lose what made it special as a result of this direction. This game did some things a lot of other MMOs simply fail at – they made open world fun and brought huge numbers of people together to play together. That large scale mentality has always driven GW2 and made it unique – one of the first MMOs to actually get the “massively multiplayer” part almost perfect. Moving toward a raiding focus will make it just another meh “me-too” MMO.

I do not think it is a coincidence that raiding and the end of regular content drops came at roughly the same time in GW2. The devs switched their end game philosophy to the same one they have seen sustain other MMOs, most notably WOW.

The problem is, this game isn’t WOW. In fact, a lot of the early players came here to get away from that kind of end game environment.

Do I think raids themselves are bad for a game? Not in a vacuum, no I do not. However, the accompanying change in game design/end game philosophy that invariably comes with them (and we are seeing first hand right now) is VERY BAD for the game and something I hope they turn away from sooner rather than later.

When GW2 launched, it received amazing reviews, from both media and players, for a single reason – the developers understood that the player is more important than the game itself. They understood that, in order to set this game apart, they had to be different than any other MMO out there.

Understanding that, they knew the key was keeping us entertained – giving us something new and fun to do on a continual basis – a reason to keep logging into the game that didn’t require a credit card. They understood how to keep the game fresh, to provide a constant flow of quality content that kept us logging in week after week. And, it was content for everyone to enjoy.

After yesterday’s AMA, I worry that those days are now over for this game. They have moved from something unique and special to a me-too content model designed to push out expansions faster, with only a few content dumps (most of which will be raids) in between (and months apart). This is EXACTLY what every other AAA mmo does.

The devs argued that the faster pacing had to go away for quality reasons. But that reason doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. The old system gave us Silverwastes, some amazing story experiences, the Marionette, the Breachmaker fight, Fractals, Guild Missions and much more. The new system will give us balance changes, a raid that fewer than 20 percent of the game will ever care about and MONTHS between actual new content updates.

The philosophy of “always give them something new and fun to do” that existed when the game launched is apparently gone, and that saddens me. It has been replaced with the EXACT SAME model used by the games I left to come here. In other words, they have moved the focus away from the players onto what is easiest for the studio.

GW2 gave me an experience I couldn’t find in other MMOs. Now the only reason to keep logging in (for many of us – not just me) is my friends and guild in the game.

The GW2 team needs to get back to the vision it had when the game launched – back to that concept of giving us something new and fun to do much more often than all of the me-too MMOs out there.

All of this said, I still hold out hope they will realize this again and get back to providing the great product that caused almost all media and millions of players to praise this game unlike any other MMO we had ever seen before. Only time will tell.

Ran into a few issues this week -

1. Yanonka still despawns if someone elsewhere on the map interacts with another rat (this issue has persisted for at least a year now).

2. Half-Baked’s shield cannot be removed via knockbacks as intended because, using the new break bar mechanic, he doesnt actual move when knocked back. This makes the fight tedious and virtually impossible for smaller groups. Im not sure, but I’m guessing Sotz has the same issue.

Additionally, the confusion surrounding guild races is still very much an issue that should be looked at. It is impossible to know when your guild’s race begins and ends if another guild has already triggered a race – and, as a result, guilds find themselves sitting at the start for protracted periods of time.

And, I know it seems like a little thing, but is it possible to avoid putting two of the exact same race, puzzle or challenge on the list in the same week. In addition to causing even more confusion (in the case of races), it adds tedium to what should be a fun night of guild activity.

Finally (and Ive said this before), missions are the one area of the game that needs the most work, currently. We havent seen anything new in years. There are so many great things you could be doing with missions.

perry.9645:

@blaeys, People have been running double ranger/druid there is nothing thats bad about that also the difference between ranger and warrior is way way way smaller than between warrior and ele

My point is that, yes, some professions will always do more damage than others, but currently, those differences are way too disparate, which leads to exclusionary behavior.

A (arguably, THE) primary component of raiding is “kill fast.” Players proficient at professions that cannot “kill fast” are at a severe disadvantage and, thus, have fewer opportunities to raid. From a raid leader perspective, this means potentially leaving people (friends) out, even if they are really good at playing their profession.

I agree that people should have to strategically alter their build, gear and playstyle to beat raids. My group has been doing exactly that.

To Heibi’s point however, there is a huge disparity between specific professions in terms of potential damage output – and that does hurt the experience and create a lot of the nastiness we are seeing in game.

Yes, rangers can spec to druid and play competitively, but realistically they are limited to one per raid. That is a flawed perspective for a couple of reasons. First, the raids are designed around minimal damage requirements. This means that any profession that is significantly behind all of the others in terms of damage or group damage buffing is hobbled and will never have the same opportunities as others. People who played those professions for 3+ years or enjoy playing them are SOL. Second, it move the dynamic toward “bring the profession even if it means leaving players out.”

People who know how to play their professions well should have a realistic (and competitive) place on raid teams. Given the current direction of fight design, that means competitive damage capabilities. We currently have a huge gap between, for example, warriors and rangers.

If they are committed to using enrage timers to define difficulty, then they need to make sure every player capable of maximizing damage on their profession of choice should have a realistic role in a raid group. It isn’t rocket science. Furthermore, they need to do this even if it means (and it will) separating coefficients between pve and pvp.

That said, I do believe the raid fights are well designed – they just need to even the playing field so we can bring those players who are ready for raids rather than having to worry about whether or not they are on a dud profession.

I agree with the OP on this one.

I would be (kinda) okay with a dps check if all professions could bring competitive dps to the fight. As it stands, they most definitely cannot, meaning the raids favor those who have played the high dps professions for the past three years. In other words, bringing the right profession is MUCH more important than bringing the right player, which makes for much of the nastiness you see associated with raids.

If they want to use enrage timers to provide the illusion of difficulty, then they need to fix that disparity. If not, they need to build fights without enrage timers (imo).

The biggest issue with raids is that there are still some professions that have little to no place in raids – at least as groups are first encountering them. Players who have spent the last three years focusing on mastering those professions are being left on the sidelines – even if they are really good players.

Every profession needs to be in generally the same place in terms of damage and group support. They can (should) fill different roles, but given the focus on enrage timers, they all need to be comparable in terms of at least damage. Currently a few are not – and that is making raids exclusive not because they are challenging, but rather because they favor a tiny group of professions to the (at least when you are learning the fights) exclusion of others.

If they would fix that issue (which unfortunately, would probably require splitting PVE and PVP abilities/numbers, which Im not sure they are willing to do), raids would be in a much better place.

The raids are well designed and fun if you have the right group, but they do bring to light a major flaw with the current game.

As it stands, there are specific group compositions and professions that better ensure success by an extremely large margin – to the detriment/exclusion of others. Worse, putting together those groups doesnt require skill – it requires the ability to use Google and being enough of an kitten to tell people proficient in the professions that aren’t part of that composition they can’t play with you.

I know it’s impossible for every profession to be just as viable as every other profession in terms of damage output (given the crazy reliance on enrage timers by the devs), but they should be close enough to offer roughly the same chance of success. For example, a warrior shouldn’t be able to do double the damage of a ranger (maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but Im guessing it is close to accurate).

The goal should be to “bring the player, not the profession.” Unfortunately, the opposite is true – especially as groups just begin to raid (I realize experienced groups can down it with many comps – Im not talking about that). Anet needs to level the playing field – make raids about player skill and group cohesion rather than making success so dependant upon specific group compositions.

If the rewards for any single part of the game outshine all others by too large a margin, then that part of the game becomes the focus of the entire game for many people.

Like it or not (and some of us do like it), the whole point is that rewards should be balanced across all activities in order to encourage people to play the aspects of the game they most want to play (which can include raids, but doesn’t have to). In other words, you should want to raid because you enjoy raiding rather than because of the pixelated reward (just as you should be able to do any part of the game for the same reason).

At the same time, each part of the game can have some unique rewards – which raids definitely do in the form of unique ascended weapons and, eventually, legendary armor.

Anet has to be careful to walk a fine line, however, and not let raid rewards outshine the rest of the game – or they risk not having anything in the end game other than raiding (which has happened with many other MMOs).

I agree with many others in this thread – with GW2, you really have to move away from the loot=happiness mentality that other games rely on.

for me, I can tell you two times in the past 1.5 weeks that Ive felt that tinge of excitement – the first was in killing the Vinetooth Prime and the second was participating, with my guild, in a successful Tangled Depths meta event. Now, while many would argue that neither are overly difficult achievements, the accomplishment is definitely more satisfying than some arbitrary RNG loot drop.

Do you plan to retrofit any of the creatures in old Tyria with any of the new mechanics (beyond what you did with Branded around the Shatterer, of course)?

When (if) you bring back the Queen’s Gauntlet, will you be incorporating any new creatures based around some of the new mechanics and abilities you have placed into the game?

Also – and this is probably more a bug than a feature request, but there are some creatures in old content that are now broken due to updated game mechanics – such as Half Baked Komali and Sotz the Scalliwag (both need to be knocked back or pulled in order to do more than minimal damage, but those ccs no longer work on champions due to the new break bar system). Are there plans to address those issues in the near future?

I think there is a place for both in the game, but I would prefer to see the developers focus most (80+%) of their energy on an engaging and fun open world experience. It really is what sets GW2 apart from almost every other MMO out there.

As someone who enjoys playing with large groups of friends, I can say it is what caused me to buy the game when it launched. Yes, it is easier to tweak difficulty levels when you control the precise number of participants, but you do sacrifice something when you have to do that. Because of that concession, I would rather raiding and instanced content take a back seat (way back) to those things we can do as a community.

Raptor’s Perch in Gendarran Fields is also currently inaccessible.

Tequatl and gliding were both home runs. The balance updates made sense – even if they were a little painful to some.

Still, I would rate this update as disappointing – and that is coming from someone that LOVES this game. When I think about a quarterly update to GW2, I think about things like the Tower of Nightmares, the Flame and Frost upgrades, Silverwastes/DryTop and the Assault on LA. Those felt like labors of love – the excitement level from developers, the breadth of content, the pure joy that came through in the story. Most importantly, they were things that brought the community together (a fresh approach compared to other MMOs – the thing that really set GW2 apart). In comparison, this patch doesn’t live up to expectations or to what should be Anet standards. It is just not very meaty.

In short, there is little new to do in this patch until the hour/minute of Tequatl rolls around – when we get the few minutes of an actually interesting fight. There is no story advancement, no updates to systems that have gone years without being touched content-wise (notably missions and fractals).

My biggest concern, however, comes from what you say is “coming soon.” We see no excitement or developer involvement for anything with one exception – raids. Unfortunately, by your own admission, that is something designed for only a small percentage of the player base.

It makes me worry that you are dedicating resources to a single element to the detriment of everything else.

The direction of the game really feels random and possibly even off course. You say you plan to focus on building on core elements, but (again with the exception of raids) you dont really define what those elements/foundations are. We get a lackluster patch (compared to what you’ve given us in the past in the same time frame) that makes me worry about where you plan to take the game.

You can place marks over the Lieutenant’s heads using the new squad markers – which make great lieutenant tags. Go to the options panel and keybinds and it will show you which keys to use.

Only drawback is, since there are now eight potential markers (which is AWESOME!), a squad leader can get a little silly with it if you aren’t careful (this is where I plead the fifth ).

The general rule is that people who are happy with something have considerably less motivation to speak up. Most effective critical communication is about soliciting change and people who are happy don’t really want things to change. I still think this group is the larger of the two – it is just harder to see.

Among those who are critical of the game, I see two distinct groups – those who criticize because they care about the game and want Anet to succeed and those who just like to complain and hear themselves talk. Unfortunately, the Internet and its inherent anonymity seems to encourage the second category much more than the first.

It falls to Anet to know the difference, which Im sure can be a painful task at times. I think as players, the best thing we can do when we have (legitimate) criticisms is follow a few simple guidelines -

a. keep it civil.
b. remember that there are many types of players and not everyone will agree that something should be changed.
c. be constructive and try to focus on potential solutions to problems more than harp on the problems themselves.

Anet listens to players – imo, sometimes more than they should (still miss LS Season 1 ). It falls to us to make it as easy as possible for them to understand what we expect and want out of GW2.

Kraggy.4169:

Don’t see how this idea helps “random players”, but maybe I don’t understand Guild World Events, never done one.

OtterPaws.2036:

Idk why you expected it to work, its just a normal world boss like SB, FE and such.

I’ve never understood why KQ was an event seeing as how it’s a totally free-form DPS zerg with zero group tactics, at last the other two require a modicum of organisation, albeit not a great amount.

I can see why Blaeys is thinking the new Shatterer should be, Anet’s description seems to imply it will need some coordination along the lines of Teq. if it isn’t to fail.

My thinking is, if guilds are able to trigger more world bosses, they will be active more often – giving random players more access to those fights, especially if those said guilds use LFG to promote activating those bosses (which they would).

This just seems like a natural thing for them to do (not just for Shatterer – but all world bosses, imo).

I think many of us expected this item to work with the new Shatterer fight the same way it does for Tequatl/TT/Karka Queen.

Anet should consider adding many of the current bosses to this item (and definitely Shatterer – mind boggling that they did not) – it would benefit both guilds and random players in the world/using LFG.

To be fair, there were a lot of “I quit” and complaint threads the first few weeks after GW2 came out (and pretty much every week since). It is just what happens on online forums (for pretty much any game).

Reality is, even though I disagree with a development or design decision from time to time (recently even), GW2 is still the best MMO playable today (because it is fun, simple as that – and, imo, some of the HOT content – especially DS – is some of the best content they have designed to date) – and can still boast one of the greatest communities in gaming (love my guild and the people I play alongside).

eldrin.6471:

Raids say nothing about your skill as a player,maybe more about your skill at making in game friends.And to be giving out exclusive rewards based on your ability to have made friends in game is ludicrous.When it comes to raids lfg is not worth the hassle
.

I think this hits the issue pretty closely. The difficulty behind raids doesn’t come from the actual mechanics. While they are fun and take a little practice to master, the real difficulty, unfortunately, comes from administrative and, I would argue, arbitrary elements. You have to get exactly 10 people (god forbid you have 11, 12, 13, etc friends wanting to raid with the guild), they have to have (for the most part) very specific armor stats and builds, and ideally, they have very specific professions. Pulling together a raid, when you actually care about the people you play with, is extremely stressful and not really fun.

The worst part is, they don’t have to be that way. It is very possible for them to design 10 player content that rewards and recognizes player skill without locking them away from everyone else (simplest way, imo – implement gold/silver/bronze reward system similar to what is found in the rest of the game).

My guild is raiding and many have beaten raid fights, but I’m not sure it is worth the aggravation and general weariness I hear in teamspeak every time we talk about that particular part of the game. I worry that it is alienating people and hurting the game.

New guild missions.

The problem I have with raiding is that the difficulty comes from arbitrary restrictions implemented – seemingly – for the sole purpose of exclusion. This is bad design and it leads to this general feeling that GW2 is moving away from its base.

Anet wanted to be able to tell potential new players – specifically raiders from other games – that they had this extra hard content that only a few people could see. The problem is they only created the illusion of difficulty by enforcing extremely restrictive set numbers, very specific builds and simplistic pass/fail enrage timers.

In other words, the fights themselves aren’t difficult, but the hoops you have to jump through to organize the fights are. This gives them the numbers and semi-exclusion they need to tout the “difficult raids for hardcore raiders” in a news release to potentially entice new players from other games.

The reality is they could open up the raiding experience to everyone without impacting the hardcore experience – by simply tier-ing the rewards through either scaling or time it takes to kill. In other words, reward performance but don’t effectively close off the content to those who don’t enjoy specific builds or those who simply play for the experience/camaraderie through arbitrary mechanics.

I can say with 100% confidence that this single aspect of the game, while it isn’t mandatory, is changing the feel and atmosphere of GW2 in a negative way – and, more importantly, is driving away many of the more casual players (something that should worry everyone – they are the core customers keeping the game alive).

I have proposed this a few times before and not seen much of a discussion, but I do think it is a way to go -

It is VERY possible to offer casual content without taking the teeth or reward away from hardcore players.

In raids, they could easily use a gold/silver/bronze reward system that worked to open the content to everyone without taking anything away from the fights. Remove the enrage and reward gold level for hitting first time marker, silver for second and bronze for third.

Gold would be identical to current rewards. Silver would similar but with far fewer shards/gold/etc. Bronze would reward a champ box like any world event, but no access to the new vendor (that would require at least silver or gold).

This would allow everyone to experience the content while still giving the more serious players the rewards they deserve for their performance.

A side effect would be to give them a reason to focus ongoing resources on raids – since the content would no longer be for a tiny subset of the population.

I don’t really see issues with open world, fractals, etc. Those seem like they offer a pretty diverse experience now.

Just my take on it.

My guild is stronger than its ever been in terms of number of active players. It is almost always possible to find an active map for any of the new zones, Dry Top, Silverwastes, Southsun and Orr. The world boss events are well attended. It is simple to find fractal groups. WvW is starting to pick back up now that people are getting their bearings in the new maps.

I guess it depends on how you define failure.

Guild representations – or even membership – shouldn’t be something that feels forced or required because of buffs or guild level.

Players should participate in a guild because the leadership and other members of that guild make the game more enjoyable – and because it feels like a place where you can play alongside people with the same ingame (and possibly out of game) interests. The beauty of the new system allows that to include multiple groups simultaneously without cutting ties with others.

I personally love the new system. Before HOT, there were a lot of friends that I didn’t talk to as often as I wanted because they were in smaller guilds focused on other things (for example, a small guild of military veterans with tight out of game ties). Now, they can retain that autonomy yet still be a part of my larger more diverse guild (even if they dont rep).

Most importantly, the new system puts the onus on us – the leaders and players in the game – to define the value of our guilds through our activities and support for our members. It is a major improvement over the old system, imo, and one my guild is taking full advantage of.