Guild Wars 2

I love my warrior:

Because it’s a warrior. For me it’s all a style thing. The archetype just pleases me.

Thieves/Rogues/Assassins are invisibility ganker sissies
Guardians/Paladins hide behind divine powers and “gods” doing their work for them
Mages… Dress wearing finger wagglers relying on cosmic powers to do their work for them

Warriors though, they rely on the strength of their arm and their fighting skill to take on all challenges. Like a man, like a soldier.

Yeah it’s a video game and there’s no real coorelation between a class and any sense of honor or bravery and all that but it’s still just a satisfying archetype for me on a basic psychological level.

I do the same in FPS’s too though. I respect the players skill at piloting/vehicular control, turrets, etc but I will always play a ground pounding assault trooper. Down in the thick of the battle, just a trooper and his gun/knife going against the tanks/helis/jets/snipers etc.

stefanplc

and look at the last minute or so where I fight a guardian together with 1-2 other people and eventually I just give up because all of us couldn’t kill him and he killed the other 2 people that were with me. I WANT THAT kind of survivability too.

Within the first 1:30 of that video you do a 1v3 and down 2 of the opponents while managing to survive and get away to heal up… I think you already have what you want.

Throwing out hyperbole and strawmen doesn’t help your case btw.

WvWvW isn’t balanced, isn’t MEANT to be balanced, and never will be balanced. Same with SPvP. Balance happens at the TPvP level. ANet were very clear about this from the very beginning of information releases about GW2 before the betas even got underway.

Now, are warriors balanced? No, they’re pretty underwhelming in TPvP. But in WvWvW and SPvP you don’t need to be balanced to contribute, follow the zerg, range spam, gank, etc. Hell you can be a longbow sword/sword warrior and succeed in WvWvW depending on gear/level and size of the zerg around you.

Pistol whip also provides evasion DURING the attack. Warriors have to spend 3 utility slots in order to get the same functionality out of HB as thieves have with PW.

Kanenas

Sure kids play warriors, let’s make kids happy.
I see Guild wars 2 becoming Kids Wars 2 really fast. WoW became this after giving up to kids demands…
I like this game, please do not let the kid’s demands ruin it..I try to bring my friends in to play with me…..Please do not make me tell them “a warrior is the only choice” when they will ask me which profession to play…

You are really insecure about something here son. “kids this, kids that” I’d wager my child is older than you, “kid”. /eyeroll

Show us on the doll where the warrior touched you.

Thieves have a place on tourney teams, warriors do not currently. You are mad. Get over it.

LonelyReaper.8075:

cookie cutter build you mean .

You mean phantasm build? Nah man, didn’t you hear? They nerfed that. People will have to L2P now and run bunkers, or shatter roamers or condi-support mers and such. The “cookie cutter build” of phantasms will be less used from now on.

Rejoice brother, tis a good thing.

Aelona.8572:

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

Indeed.

Real mesmers weren’t affected at all by what happened. If anything maybe more fotm mesbros will realize what the real power builds are for mesmers and l2p properly.

HA! That is freaking awesome!

GJ crappy spec’d engis! If you can’t be viable, troll! Well done.

LonelyReaper.8075:

same for mesmer, so why aren’t we getting the same treatment as necro by fixing their bugs before the nerf hammer.

lol
Not even remotely close. Necro pets have severe issues that cause viability problems, mesmers don’t.

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Frizz: anyway nerf to mesmer is needed in term of 1v1 pvp, but they should nv do a knee-jerk nerf . This will only affect a single build and utterly devastating to phantasm build and slight nerf to shatter build. One more thing is , if summon a single AI to kill an enemy is counted cheap, why wasn’t necro pet build nerf , which is able to have more than 3 AI that last more than a single fight not counted op.

Because necro pets are so utterly broken and sad that there’s no need to nerf them, the necro is kittening himself already by having them.

LonelyReaper.8075:

in a sword/sword and staff most mesmer uses

Uh, no. Most use sword pistol over sword/sword (and it’s not really a bad call) and far too many use GS over staff.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a phantasm mesmer worth a darn use sword/sword + staff. Ever. lol
That’d be a pretty aweful setup for it. Hell, GS+staff would be better, but sword/pistol + GS (or staff) would be more ideal.

Senai.1804:

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players?

Did you miss the part where I said “SPvP”? That really solidified that I wasn’t talking about fighting good players with that spec in Tourneys. lol I use my hybrid spec for that.

Senai.1804:

I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

Well on my build it was once every 10 seconds (1/weapon swap) which worked excellent with the timing. On a phantasm build that actually uses a utility slot for a phantasm in theory you could summon one about every 6-7 seconds or so with proper rotation. Now it’s going to be about once every 12 seconds or so for my hybrid build which doesn’t really affect much at all, a slight timing readjustment, perhaps letting them get a 2nd attack off.

And what a 10 second drop-rate for an actual phantasms build now with weapon swaps. Not that big a deal really.

*Wow, the ever astounding triple post. Lonely, chill.
Phantasm build = turrets
Shatter = Delayed cast attack spells

That’s the difference.*

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

LonelyReaper.8075:

Mesmers are full or counters, which work really well 1v1 which make them so powerful. Phantasm feel op because now you have to figure out what the mesmer gonna do to prevent you from doing ur standard macro.

Um…

Phantasm builds didn’t really do anything to make people “figure out” anything tbh. Phantasm is pretty simple to figure out for most people:

Dude summons alot of crap to hide himself
Dude’s AI minions do some burst
Need to drop heavy AOE on Dude AND AI pets

I mean, when you’re talking about “vs noobs” a phantasm build was all about “summon my kitten, then hide until I need to resummon again. collect free kills” in SPvP matches. Hell I used it as my lulz spec for when I was just goofing off glory farming in SPvP cause it let you watch tv or do something else while still “winning fights”.

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Braxxus: 1 build is not fine!They promise variety not cookie cutter single masses build, which they are pigeon holing us into.

lol

Sorry was just kind of rubbing it in a bit I guess since my preferred tpvp build wasn’t altered in any significant way at all.

I guess if you were a “pet” pvper then yes it sucks, but as harsh as it sounds I never really had any great sympathy for AI based builds/players in any game on any class in any area (pve or pvp).

Always seemed like the iffy-kinda-botting-but not really botting cause the devs put it into the game this way manner of gaming.

That said I believe other shatter builds are still fine as well, so it’s not just one build.

20 Dom (I, III)
20 Duel (II, X)
30 Illusion (I, VII, XI)

Sword/Sword (or pistol if you must, but double sword mesmers are slicker :P)
Staff (GS if you must, but staff mesmers are better :P)
Sigil’s of energy on weapons

Divinity + zerkers of course

Blink
Decoy
Null Field/Portal as needed

Clone, Phantasm, Clone (phantasm attacks), gap closer, Shatter

The patch was fine, Mesmers still work as intended.

;)

o_o

lol!

Thanks, gonna go get a few more players on their guards to see what fun we can have with this.

Add in signet of mercy
10 Rad – Sig Mastery
10 Val – Strength of the Fallen
10 Hon – Protective reviver

…

Maybe just 2 guards and then a war with 30 in tactics for the fast reviver, might on revive and increased toughness on revive as the roamer support…

Sounds fun actually.

I would like FRENZY to go the way of the dodo for sure. I won’t say quickness in general because I don’t mind it on the weapon sigils and I never used it on my thief (D/D backstab or gtfo imo) or ranger (condi/traps) so I can’t really comment there.

However as other people have said, it seems that in order for an ability to be balanced assuming the possibility of on-demand quickness the abilities must suck kitten when used without quickness. This is part of the warrior problem. They are pigeon-holed into frenzy builds, pretty much regardless of weapon.

The class shouldn’t be balanced around that crappy kitten gimmick ability. Get rid of Frenzy and make warriors a decent class in general, not a “meh” class with a kitten powerful utility skill.

Doesn’t affect my Shatter/Phantasm hybrid build in the slightest.

So, don’t care.

:)

Scwahr you blissfully ignore what the thread is talking about. It has nothing to do with GS gimmick builds, which most of us dislike anyways, and are acting pretty kittening kitten in general for no apparent reason.

Schwahrheit

Get these things down and you get to have Balanced Stance, Endure Pain, and Frenzy on your 7-8-9.

lol so your huge fix to the blandness and lack of reason to bring a warrior to a tourney team is dropping BR so you can take EP or BS. Of course I notice you still keep Frenzy. Could that be because Frenzy is what gives warriors the illusion of viability? Methinketh so.

@Pan: I don’t really think having audio/text excerpts of the top tier tourney teams referring to wars as a waste of a comp spot the same as “wars are fine currently”. They’re fine in SPvP and WvWvW sure, but that’s all follow the zerg anyways and frankly you can go into it with a random class and no trait points, lay down some AoE and do fine in those modes. They don’t really matter at all.

I would like to see Schwahr’s top tier team, stream, war guide/build that shows war’s filling a role on a team equal to or better than another class though. Sounds like he has it ALL figured out and AC/TP etc are all noobs right?

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

For almost every pvper i know it all goes the same with every new game (and i play mmos for like 15 yrs) :

1/ any racial advantage usable in pvp ?
2/ depending on the advantage, and ofc if no to #1, then whats the smallest race ?

In this game no racial advantage in pvp (excluding WvW) so any pvper will pick small race.
Now I know a few friends pvpers that dont care and always choose the race they like / looks coolest.

But wait … Why small race ?
Being small helps in 2 critical pvp things
1/ being able to hide about everywhere (rocks, bushes, .. or behind that random Norn)
2/ being harder to get targeted manually

Asura ftw !

Pretty much spot on.

I do it as well now because hey, “esports” are all about exploiting absolutely every little thing you can find so…

I really detest being an asura though, I like the basic human model to actually see the armor.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Like.. what? Giving Warrior an F2 F3 F4?

That would be one way yes. There’s been a few ideas, and I’m sure other people have more.

Someone suggested doing more with the “combo” concept for warrior weapon attacks.
I suggested having “stances” to use with f2-3-4 that change the weapon abilities on our bar (Kind of like ele attunements).

Someone else mentioned perhaps having our utility abilities adding a “kit” function like engi’s to f2-3-4

Of course the most basic solution is to just make the weapons DO something other than “Deal x damage”. Perhaps adding combo fields for our teammates to make use of.

Etc.

It’s just idea spitballing here, chances are none of it will come to pass, but at least it gets warrior fans communicating civilly (ideally) with each other about why the class seems to be lacking and potential ways to make it more engaging without just straight ‘nerf x, buff y’.

Payneful.7934:

You should not be looking at a player’s armor and and weapons to find out what kind of class they are. Their class icon is next to their health bar.

Well we all know this, but again this assumes you have every enemy tabbed on simultaneously at all times.

Right?

Where do we download this addon?

The game really is meant to go off visual cues more than tab targeting as far as battle awareness. I believe the devs have said so in their vlog things to that effect as well (the game dev/gameplay vids they were releasing pre-release).

Again it’s not a huge gamebreaking imbalance, but it is a definate advantage in a visual cue driven pvp setup.

Depends on the class really.

Thieves have a few builds for instance:
stealth utility
stealth backstab/unload
PW
DB unicorn

Ele’s really have 2:
Gibatron AOE doombringer
Bunker

Guardians have a plethora:
Roamer
About 3-4 different bunker builds
Offensive support variations

Engi has a few
Condineer
rifle roamer
bunker (a couple)
support roamer
etc

Mesmers…. well it’s hard to go wrong here tbh
Phantasm lazy build (I don’t want to play tbh)
Shatter
Hybrid (what I’m currently running, it’s kitten strong)

Necros…. I’m actually seeing more and more now, but we’re still developing the meta for them
Bunker
Condimancer (what I run cause it’s fun)

Rangers I only ever see 1 build tbh
1-spamming-trap/roots master
111111111111111111111111111111111111
evade
111111111111111111111111111111111111
trap trap condi condi
111111111111111111111111111111111111

;)

Warriors…. I haven’t actually run into a warrior in a serious TPvP team in a long time now. In theory though
Hammer control
GS roamer
Axe/mace roamer (I see oppa running it I guess so it’s worth a mention, I think defektive promoted the build as well on the forums)

But really I just don’t see any real teams with warriors anymore lol.

schwahrheit

Is it me or is my attack range longer/wider whenever I play Norn/Charr? The Myths of GW2 classes. Would be nice if we had Myth Busters, GW2 edition.

WTF are you talking about? The OP didn’t imply anything of the kind.

Do people even read what the subject is or just make it up as they go?

schwahrheit

Axe + Shield/GS and Bulls Charge + Frenzy is out-dated. Find a better build. And guess what? There are better builds.

Meh… yeah kinda. That’s not really the point of the thread though if you actually read it. It’s about finding something to make the warrior more dynamic and complex, with strategic group utility to contribute.

lol, so many people are missing the OP’s point completely.

I rerolled my toons to Asura long ago exactly for the reasons the OP describes:

Smaller model = Smaller visual cues

This game is molded around “visual cues”. For dodging, ability and class recognition, etc. Inherently the smaller model you have the more difficult (note I didn’t say impossible) it is for people to read those visual cues, especially in frantic fast paced combat.

Yes, you can tab your way through the team until you find a person and know what class he is and whatnot, but really in the thick of combat you are suggesting we should have every player targeted at all times simultaneously in order to have a visual reference as to what is about to happen? No. The visual cue design is so that while you’re applying that group buff on the node to your ally, you can recognize that the enemy on the outside of the node is getting ready to moa someone, the other enemy to your left is getting ready to bulls rush.

Is it game breaking? Well no, we all deal with it, but to claim it’s not an advantage is rather blind and silly. Of course it is an advantage. If it takes even .5 seconds more for someone to tell “is that a thief or an engi? what ability is he casting?” then it’s an advantage.

Nope, other players should get their dirty hands off of banners. It’s pretty crap.

Banners should also not have a cd or disappear, they should act like engineer kits. A permanent bundle you use strategically as needed.

Wolfe.3097:

3-4x? thats straight up wrong.

we have evasion tied to certain attacks, depending on weapon spec and build. not all.

perma vigor is a very specific spec that does mainly condition damage. msot thieves get about 3 dodges

20 points in acro provides 2x dodges than normal, most thieves I see in tourney’s take it.

HS, PW, and DB provide evasion while attacking (consequently the main spammable attack for those builds as well).

Stealth every 3 seconds causing target dropping (yes aoe damage still works).

3-4x mitigation is probably on the conservative side tbh when compared to warriors “block with face” mitigation technique.

Knyx.5926:

If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Yet the thief has 3-4x the actual mitigation than the warrior. Evasion/dodging are the real mitigation mechanics in GW2, armor is meaningless. A thief has evasion tied to his attacks, perma-vigor pretty much and target dropping through stealth mechanics as well. A warrior… well, he blocks with his face.

Now, I actually would be happy to endorse some kind of hp normalization as long as classes are given equal mitigation/evasion mechanics as well.

Perhaps much much shorter cooldowns on warrior blocking mechanics for instance (reactionary blocking rather than silly 3-second delay the inevitable style that shield has now)

I wouldn’t mind seeing something with the f2-f4 keys to do with either some kind of stance dancing (similar to ele attunement, different attacks for the weapon we’re using based off what stance we’re in) or perhaps like the engi’s belt kit with say our physical moves (taking ‘stomp’ gives you the 20 second ‘kick’ on the f2 key, instead of that being it’s own ability, for example).

Though i would really like to see some kind of stance dancing personally. Something simple like:
f2= defensive stance: Abilities are more evasion/block/weakness condi in nature
f3= balanced stance: Abilities are about what we have now with cripple condi’s and gap closers
F4= offensive stance: Abilities are reckless and agressive in nature perhaps with on-crit effects and more bleeding/vunerability condi’s

Give them a swap timer like ele attunements and it becomes a tactical/strategic decision. Might give certain weapon setups some actual viability as well (sword’n’shield for instance, which I admit I really wish I could run).

I know it’d be a lot of animation/new abilities to come up with but it would definately add some dynamics/complexity to the class.

Just an idea.

Vaerah.4907:

So, you rolled an high health, low skill cap class to own noobs with two buttons and now want utility and whatsnot.

Actually I rolled a warrior because I like warriors. I tend to roll one in every game given the opportunity. I don’t like the “paladin” who uses some divine power to fight for him, I don’t really like the “stealthy” guy that uses invis and stunlocking to fight dirty and gank people, I don’t like dress wearing finger wagglers (spellchuckers). I like the concept of the guy that has only himself to do the job. Has nothing to do with “owning noobs with two buttons”, which btw I can do on a thief with 1, but with the style preference I have. There’s no reason it has to be some bland vanilla concept.

Believe it or not I actually prefer as much complexity as I can get with my warrior. I like “stance dancing” I like weapon swapping, I like chains/combos, I like setting up for that perfect moment where you get in the opponents face and lock him down while you beat him to a pulp with some random slab of metal. If you could give me ele/engi versatility (kit engi mind you) along with their same utility, damage and whatnot on a warrior class I’d be totally happy.

Vaerah.4907:

Do you know that means you woud have to lose the two buttons properties to be given that utility?

And that would be a happy day and welcome trade indeed. If you notice from the warrior forum, VERY VERY few of us actually like/enjoy that whole gimmicky BR>FZ>HB minute-warrior thing. It’s tacky, it’s boring, it’s just “meh”.

Defektive.7283:

Today, for the first time since the game released I played a Mesmer. I was amazed at how many of their abilities do multiple things at once. After toying around I realized that the Warrior class, in MY opinion need attack diversity as well.

Just popping in to up-vote your statement/opinion here. In my opinion I believe this is the underlying issue that causes much of the ruckus in the warrior forums and in-game. The overall vanilla “meh” feeling of the class once you start playing other classes and realize what they’re capable of, the synergy inherent in their design and the benefits it can provide a tourney team in competitive play.

I do also like the concept of warrior “combos” as it seems to fit the thematic concept of the warrior being a “master of arms”. Unsure if that’s the way ANet would go but at least it’s a jumping off point for brainstorming.

In my opinion I believe much of it comes down to a lack of secondary utility in much of what a warrior does, some weapon ability design characteristics I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind…
*The self root on hammer 4 and perhaps even 3 when it’s as slow as it is already

*HB being the 2 attack instead of the burst ability and some other attack going in it’s spot – surely you’ve noticed nobody wastes adrenaline on the GS burst ability

*1h sword being…. well, pretty much used for a gap closer only as the bleeds stack so slow and “auto attack” being the only fall-back. Ideally the cripple from 3 would be tied to 2 and a new attack put in the 3 position. Perhaps like the ranger evade attack or thief’s sword/dagger evade attack.

*Shield abilities being very bland with 5 only functioning as a stall unless traited into in order to get a basic secondary effect – reflect missles

*Why do banners disappear? Why don’t they function like engineer kits? Choose to grab it, use the abilities (charge, haste buff for the team, knockback or stability, etc) when it’s beneficial to the team and then plant that sucker when you need your weapon attacks, pick it up again when you move to another location. It would make actually make them engaging and might even have a purpose on the utility bar. Also it be visually appealing to charge a node with your banner held high on the initial push.

Also unless running EP>traited EP>traited shield block the warrior’s damage mitigation seems to be fairly bottom end. Again it’s going to seem like class envy I’m sure but thieves (I’ve run one yes) get called out as squishy, except evasion is the games primary damage mitigation which thieves have tied to their attacks and dodge ability out the butt with nigh perma-vigor. On my engi I have perma-vigor, my mesmer has evasion abilities on demand, etc. Only the necro really seems to “face-tank” like warriors but at least on my necro I have 2 HP bars (though I’m in no way saying necros are “fine” or anything, just bringing them up).

Also most every serious warrior tied to tourney streams runs frenzy… most of us hate it, but it’s the one thing that seems to give us the burst required to get that kill and seem threatening. It’s also the only one with such a severe penalty, and usually is tied to the most easily used countermeasures (dodge). Can’t say I’m a fan of frenzy but it’s almost like the warrior class was built AROUND it.

I’ll stop my ranting here, I hope it doesn’t come off too harsh as I do really enjoy the game overall and I do really want to enjoy my warrior more but currently as with most of the top tier teams (and I am pretty sure you’ve heard their comments on this issue as well) I just don’t see any reason where a warrior is deserving of a place on a tourney team when other classes fill the same function on the team and better.

Defektive.7283:

Hey guys since we’re all pretty passionate as to how the Warrior class could be performing better in PvP I created a thread on the sPvP Forum. (yes I concede, after playing a Mesmer a little today we are slightly vanilla ish)

The thread is about improvements to the Warrior class in an open dialog to Jon.

Very nice, I think that it’s a wonderful idea (I do actually like the concept of having weapon combo’s somehow as it seems to fit the “feel” of the warrior “master of arms”.) I do believe this whole thing comes down to being passionate about warriors which is a good thing.

(I have a mesmer I main for TPvP now as well due to how well designed the class is for TPvP so I totally understand how playing one can cause a person to see warriors in a slightly different light. Also an engi, which I think is designed brilliantly as well, a necro cause it’s fun and an Ele, also designed beautifully for engaging play.)

Cogbyrn

Perhaps I don’t know you well enough to recognize your light-heartedness on his light-heartedness, but civility hasn’t exactly been your modus operandi since your initial post in this thread. The only impression I’ve gotten out of your content is an aggressive attempt at convincing others that Warriors aren’t good enough for tPvP, instead of trying to brainstorm innovative ways to fit them into a comp.

Well I’m not sure why the‘s were taken out of my post, but then again the moderators have been deleting our lighthearted quips and comments all day so you’re missing a lot of the context, which is totally not your fault since the posts keep getting deleted (having a chuckle with another poster is “off-topic” and thusly removed sadly, lol).

Not sure why you feel I’ve come across as aggressive, for that surely isn’t my intention. However unlike Defektive it’s against my nature, very much against it, to dance around words. I’m blunt, I don’t believe in “tact” or any of that crap. Just spit out what you want to say and be done with it. I understand if that’s come across as abrasive or whatnot but well….. /shrug

The thing is that it’s not just my opinion. I’ve tried all the builds, and believe it or not I STILL play my warrior (in pugs, I won’t drag my team down in actual competitive tourney’s by playing a sub-par class) and try to figure out SOMETHING he does better, or at least as good as another class all around. But as I said it’s not just my opinion, I follow the “pro” teams pretty heavily, I watch their game streams, I read their opinions on the meta/class balance, I listen to the podcasts. Again there is a reason that major players from teams such as TP, AC and such have dropped wars from the roster and come out to say that wars are a waste of a class spot. I trust the truly hardcore tourney guys to know since they ARE the ones that are pushing the meta.

You’re right however, wars are fine in WvWvW and SPvP (follow the zerg modes basically) because it’s less reliant on actual balance and the devs have even said since the beginning that neither mode is supposed to be balanced. You can blend into the zerg, important CD’s are probably used up more often allowing you to burst without as much interference, etc.

All my posts are in regards to TPvP and I won’t begrudge you that I’m biased because I feel that competitive tourney play is the only pvp that really matters when it comes to the meta/balance argument. Of course everyone else’s opinions are just as valid and I don’t pretend to claim otherwise.

I think the biggest problem with a mesmer condition build is that any serious TPvP already runs condi removal out the kitten as is. So it’s rather poo. It’s all about control and burst. And the more you watch the top tier teams play the more this is emphasized. Control, burst, or gtfo.

So with that said:

YES THE STAFF IS AWESOME regardless of build. It’s our best overall weapon by far.

As for specific build advice I’ve finally settled on my final build which for the most part brings together the best things about the mesmer (imo).

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.8.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.180.191.196.0.0.2.2.6.526.528.0.542.550.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.586.592.596.20.20.0.0.30

The way you play it is like a mix between a phantasm build and a shatter build. Let your phantasms get in an attack, or two if there is time, then use your shatter for burst. Since you shatter on yourself as well it synergizes with the sword 3 MH attack to load the burst.

The extra bounces are insanely useful with your staff and warlock phantasm, especially in larger fights and when CS is down. Also it lets you swap out your non-staff weapon to GS for PvE without changing builds. The 3rd utility is preference, usually between portal and null void. The elite is preference as well (time warp is OP, group stealth CAN be OP and moa is 1v1 OP).

The offhand is either sword or pistol (sword/sword or sword/pistol). The sword OH gives your more straight up burst and raw damage output, though the pistol brings the CC and respectable burst as well.

Hope it helps man.

I hadn’t really noticed people complaining about lack of AoE tbh.

In PvP I use sword/(sword or pistol depending on mood) and staff. In PvE I use GS/Staff.

I trait 30 into illusions for shatter on self, and all bouncing attacks get extra bounce (same build for TPvP and PvE as well). Staff obviously has CS and between staff 1 and phantasms copied staff 1 there’s a ton of AoE bouncing around. My shatters are all AoE (and 4 of them because of myself as well). Sword 2 is melee range aoe, and with GS I get 2, 4 and 3 as aoe attacks as well.

There’s actually quite a bit of AoE in the mesmer class it’s just a bit different than “drop big colored circle on ground, watch kitten die” style aoe.

Just to be clear. I dance around things for a living.

Ew… Well I’ll try not to let that dissuade me from remaining civil.

Defektive

While yes Warriors compared to some classes like Mesmers or Guardians have a handicap, I’m more concerned with how much of an over reaction people are having to it. I see us as 10% less effective in certain areas (like damage compared to survivability). But I firmly believe we make up for it in control utility.

Enh….. I dunno man. Hammer has control yes, mace 5 as well. You could have more if you picked up bola/kick/stomp/fear but can’t have all of those and really stability is practically required for every class/build for warriors that expects to get any melee uptime in a group fight. Yes I said kick, I’ve tried to run it, I like the animation (very chuck) but really….. meh. Stomp’s CD is too long too.

Still I do actually agree that it’s not so much a damage/survivability thing as a generic and bland skillset with very little in regards to overall synergy and group utility.

Again with the shield comparison (it’s the easiest to bring up).
Shield 4 is a short rush with a daze, cd is ok once traited… ish. Shield 5 only works as a delay, unless you trait missle deflection. CD is far too long even when traited.

Guardian 4 creates a shielding wave in front of you that damages foes and gives protection to yourself and up to five allies. So protection, damage and group utility.

Guard shield5 creats a dome around you that pushes foes back and absorbs projectiles. Detonate the dome to heal nearby allies. So area control/knockback/interrupt, inherent missle deflection, and a group heal.

Vanilla vs flavored.

Then there’s a few weapon isses. 1h sword for instance. Cripple from 3 should be tied to 2 and some kind of other attack should be put in 3’s place (perhaps with an evade attached or something like ranger/thief). Self root on hammer 3 and 4 is silly and doesn’t need to be there.

Hundred blades should be the burst ability and GS should get another 2 attack.

Etc. Just QoL and functionality fixes.

*Apparently my posts are getting deleted for being too short. So expect walls of text from now on. XD

Nice, I lol’d.

Like the 2nd poster my opinion after watching paradigm and AC streams and interviews/podcasts (probably too much tbh) and playing the game in TPvP would be to change it up a bit.

God Tier: Mesmer, Guardian,
Demi-God Tier: Engineer, Elementalist.
Cat tier: Thief, Ranger
Mice tier: Warrior, Necromancer

p.s. .. all the serious guys on this topic should seriously relax and see the humor of it..

Agreed

Derps.7421:

sarcasm its hard to read <3

Just confused by whether you meant you ran against a 5 thief team and lost, or ran AS a 5 thief team and lost (your sig says you mesmer).

Game.3085:

MMO games are changing to fevor the player who plays 2 or 3 hours a day or less than the player who spends 9 to 10 hours or more playing an mmo game

Good. It’s healthier for all mankind.

Defektive

maybe slightly handicapped compared to other classes

That’s kind of the whole point though Defekt (it’s nice to see you finally admit it without dancing around it). In TPvP you can’t have “slightly handicapped” compared to other classes. That means you’re crap. It’s 110% power/efficiency or gtfo of the competition.

Defektive

And we should have to trait to do certain things, if anything the classes you’re referring to should be toned down to our level instead of us buffed up to theirs.

I highly disagree. On a few levels.
Firstly: It’s easier to buff one class than to nerf 5-6.
Secondly: The warrior doesn’t need blanket stat ‘buffs’ anyways. That’s counter to the issue with warriors. It needs a trait/weapon ability overhaul. Minor, but important things. QoL improvements really and some changes to bring warrior abilities up to par with their sister abilities the other classes use (for instance compare guardian shield vs warrior shield, or even engi shield vs warrior shield.).

The warrior is “vanilla” and standing next to 31 flavors of creativity. It really just needs to have something mixed into it so it’s not vanilla anymore.

Yukishiro

Your video shows you trying to use a thief at mid and failing miserably yet still winning because mesmer is so powerful. I do not think this video shows what you think it shows.

Basically what your post actually shows is how unbalanced the game is. You are just relying on a being carried by one overpowered class to make up for not having another.

^
This. I’m sorry.
It’s a nice vid and I enjoyed it but really all the video shows is how crazy powerful and useful mesmers are (especially on Khylo).

While I don’t believe ANet has completely kittened up, after all the game is quite fun and all games need some balancing done for pvp, we shouldn’t be trying to gloss over the nature of class usefulness and purpose with rose-tinted goggles.

What your video showed was that mesmers are game changers, and that had your team used the ele to bunker mid, or replaced that warrior (why on earth would you bring a warrior over a guard or any other class?) with a guard/engi to bunker mid the match wouldn’t have had so much “OMG I’M LOSING MID” every few seconds in the voice chat.

Funny, I always prefer to play a warrior in these types of game however the warrior is complete garbage for TPvP currently. I’m actually having more fun and bringing more to the TEAM as a necro.

Oh, you were talking about SPvP? My bad, I don’t do follow the zerg mode.

Cogbyrn.7283:

This poor man has resigned himself to a lifetime of mediocrity. Almost brings a tear to my eye.

Sure man. It couldn’t be a simple case of reading and math. There’s a reason EVERY major team has dropped wars from their team roster and has either in forum posts, blogs or streams commented to the fact that anything a warrior can be spec’d to do another class can do just as well, if not better, while bringing more to the team as a whole.

Warriors would be fine, if other classes didn’t do the same thing but better. It’s just facts, has nothing to do with the quality of players and trying to pawn it off as such is simply a case of ignoring the actual mechanics. Can you have a great player on a warrior and a bad player on another class? Of course, but it’s irrelevent. That same great player would get more bang for the buck by rolling a different class to perform the same role on the team.

*@Fadeaway: I don’t recall which server I ended up on in WoW, I did a few transfers. I did however have a druid named braxxus though my main was a prot warrior named Gorath, and my other one was a DK named Daegoni. Yes, I have a thing for melee tanks with warriors being my favorite class in every game (typically).

Thundar.3910:

Defektive.7283:

Example of Support/Pressure:

http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/b/334138943

Really great build. You want to help your team? Play this build.

Or stop being selfish and reroll to a class that does the job better. OMG HAMMAR WAR? Hell just roll a hammer guard, 200% more beneficial to your team. HURR DPS WAR?! Go thief, engi, ranger, mesmer, or even a dps guard. Doesn’t take much to simply look at what the abilities the other classes offer in relation to similar warrior abilities to realize you get more out of another class.

It has a community. A rather large community in fact. It’s just a community with a very large mass of narcissistic aggro “bro’s” talking kitten 25/8/366 so if you’re liberal with the block function it ends up seeming pretty vacant.

;)

Raltay.7613:

Maybe in pugs – in more organized pvp modes (like tournaments) warriors are nonexistent:

1. Their utility skills are clearly inferior to guardian (just take skills with similar effects side-by-side and compare them),
2. They have no real escape mechanism – in any Xv1 (with X > 1) if warrior isn’t heavily traited for defense and packs defensive utility (balanced stance, “shake it off”, endure pain) – kittening his DPS in the process – the warrior WILL DIE – and even if he is traited/specced defensively, it will only prolong his agony by those few seconds and not be something that can save him,
3. As a follow-up to previous point – as somebody said in warrior subforum – armor means NOTHING in this game, it’s stealth/clones/evasiveness/distortion that are true kings of survivability,
4. They have almost no skills that can make significant change on the battlefield – just compare for example warrior’s and guardian’s shield skills,
5. Many skills having only single effect or/and having too long CDs for what they have to offer (and how much they have to offer) and/or being simply UP (Rampage, all banners, most of physical),
6. Warriors only excel in bursts – even in constant DPS field they are easily matched by Guardians,
7. The whole warrior class design makes me feel like it has been dashed off in less than 10 min by somebody who couldn’t decide what roles should warrior perform in game – they can do a bit of this, a bit of that, but overall every their role is performed better by other classes,

Note: just my humble opinion on the current state of Warrior – feel free to disagree

Couldn’t agree more.

In TPvP warriors are kind of like having half a player on your team. Considering pretty much every team that’s worth a kitten has dropped wars from their roster if not outright stated that warriors suck and are outperformed at any role by another class it’s pretty much GG wars until something happens to restructure the class.

BTW, actually writing up a point by point comparison of warrior skills/traits vs those of other classes who perform the same function. Even engineer kit shield skills surpass warrior shield skills for instance, which is kittened up on a whole new level.

I feel bad for:
Death shroud

and lets me play my character the way I want to play it (and not being forced into a build in reaction to some other characters cheese)

Oh, you mean like warriors being forced into running that terrible terrible cheese spec because it’s the only one that is even REMOTELY viable because the class as a whole is subpar at every single role when compared to another class that can fulfill the same function? Hell as an engi you outperform them as a bunker, as a roamer, as support and as a condi build if you so choose, but go ahead and kitten about the “ganker” spec’d warriors… Hell it’s the only game I can recall where “warriors” were the ganker class whose key to success was either catching noobs or people who were already occupied and defenseless to fight back, because it’s their only option for success.

You don’t HAVE to run with a stun breaker btw. Dodge is your freely given anti-CC maneuver. However if you WANT to you can run with even more anti-CC on your utility bar.

I enjoyed the video very much since that’s pretty close to how I run (ran actually) my warrior. However since I really focus on TPvP he’s been shelved due to lack of… something (dunno the right word to describe it). Anything we try to do on a warrior as a focus for a spec/build another class can do better and bring more to the group while doing it. Still awesome vid, wish things were different in TPvP as I was really looking forward to levelling up to 80 with my war for WvWvW, but alas…

I agree with you in spirit, however:

Don’t give me your pansy excuse that it promotes bad behavior and elitist attitude. This is PvP. Man up

This is a terrible excuse for being an kitten to people. You kind of prove their point about the behavior here man. There used to be a thing called sportsmanship (also respect and decency) that existed in competitions. Sadly it’s going extinct.