Guild Wars 2

You realize that one elementalist skill is on a 60-70 second cooldown..

Quentin Fields.1295:

The funny part of this thread is actually the OP.

Who is a D/D Elementalist.Which is the best anti-Thief(any kind of build)

Why are you even get yourself to open a topic when you play the same uber kind or atleast second uber build of the game?

If you are dying to a HS spammer(which is called newbie player between us Thieves) as D/D Elementalist , sorry but either you are using a fail build or you are actually a bad player.

Do you actually think we don’t fight with enemy Thieves?Yes my friend we know how culling bug works

So you are saying that because an ability that constantly hits that hard has some sort of counter it should be allowed? You can dodge roll every single ability in the game, so everything has a counter does that mean every ability is perfectly balanced? I have seen lots of people complain about 100 blades and you can’t even move while doing that.. imagine if they gave warrior 100 blades every second while always making the ability rush the target before hand. People would complain about this and then the warriors would say l2p, which is exactly what the thieves do.

If they are going to make it deal so much damage they should make it like 100 blades where you can’t move while using it.

FourTwenty.4268:

Bunzy.8674:

If you want I can get video/picture proof of how much it hits me for, i can also get proof of a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second.

well now you’re just being silly. but thank you, i can disregard all your other posts because you just have no idea what you’re talking about lol

I am getting a video of this.. so be prepared to eat your words.

Alsonia.4753:

Twinklefairy.6739:

Bunzy.8674:

Twinklefairy.6739:

Bunzy.8674:

It’s currently doing too much damage to people
It constantly hits me for 5-7k each hit and that is with around ~1700 armor.
I don’t think any abilities should be able to constantly hit this much, especially spammable ones.

If you run around with 1700 armor then you deserve to be hit for stupidly high amounts.

I don’t know what profession you are, but I happen to have light armor. Every single one of my gear stats has toughness on it. I can’t stack anymore armor then I have right now without going 30 into the toughness tree, which only increases it to around ~1900

Then you mean 1700 toughness, as if you have 1700 armor you can’t really have any toughness whatsoever.

This with Knight’s Gear You can have a max of 1168 Toughness from Gear (Total includes Earth Runes) 1700 armor is low.

Yes I have corrected it to toughness but thanks.

Twinklefairy.6739:

Bunzy.8674:

Twinklefairy.6739:

Bunzy.8674:

It’s currently doing too much damage to people
It constantly hits me for 5-7k each hit and that is with around ~1700 armor.
I don’t think any abilities should be able to constantly hit this much, especially spammable ones.

If you run around with 1700 armor then you deserve to be hit for stupidly high amounts.

I don’t know what profession you are, but I happen to have light armor. Every single one of my gear stats has toughness on it. I can’t stack anymore armor then I have right now without going 30 into the toughness tree, which only increases it to around ~1900

Then you mean 1700 toughness, as if you have 1700 armor you can’t really have any toughness whatsoever.

Yes you were right. I have fixed it now.

thanks

Twinklefairy.6739:

Bunzy.8674:

It’s currently doing too much damage to people
It constantly hits me for 5-7k each hit and that is with around ~1700 armor.
I don’t think any abilities should be able to constantly hit this much, especially spammable ones.

If you run around with 1700 armor then you deserve to be hit for stupidly high amounts.

I don’t know what profession you are, but I happen to have light armor. Every single one of my gear stats has toughness on it. I can’t stack anymore armor then I have right now without going 30 into the toughness tree, which only increases it to around ~1900

Ender.3508:

HS only sucks when your cooldowns are up. HS spamming thieves are generally kitten tunnel-visioned players who are more than happy to blow all of their initiative against your (block, invuln, doges, or while theyre chilled, crippled or rooted).

Its not balance, it is l2p

You are missing the point of the argument, it shouldn’t be doing that much regardless of if they kitten tunnel-visioned players or not. No other ability can be spammed over and over and hit for that much damage, not to mention its also a gap closer.

brandon.6735:

For my thief i had around 14k health once and was somewhat 70-80% glass cannon. My heartseeker was never that close to that amount of damage to anyone.

If you want I can get video/picture proof of how much it hits me for, i can also get proof of a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second.

ashleydoll.8563:

Dude, I have my reasons to dislike Thieves in their current incarnation, as do a lot of people, but Heartseeker is not part of the problem.

Multiple chances to stealth, heal and reset the fight or simply run away so easily are why Thieves are problematic. Their damage is actually fine. The problem is having built-in failsafes to the Thief class which allow them to compensate for poor playing ability, it’s genuinely unfair to survive their initial burst from stealth, beat them in the aftermath and then have them just disappear for a ridiculous amount of time while they heal up and then get to attack you again. When you look at the total package of the Thief, they actually have the best survivability in the game, best single target burst damage, best single target CC and best/most escape abilities (Ele escape is close but it doesn’t involve them going completely invisible, so at least you get to see where they are running). I used to play a Guardian in many different builds and after playing a Thief for a while, I can say I feel safer on my glass cannon Thief than I ever did on my bunker Guardian.

Also try not to do what so many people do which is blame a Thief for jumping them in the middle of a fight with a backstab combo. It didn’t matter that it was a Thief, it mattered that you got jumped in the middle of a fight, any class jumping into your 1v1 would have killed you. The constant crutch of fight resets are what make Thieves stupidly unfair, because it is entirely possible for a Thief to do their job out of initial stealth, they don’t actually need as much invisibility as they have access to. This makes Thief players, whether they’re skilled or not, way too aggressive and gutsy, the supposedly squishy assassin class shouldn’t be brazenly attacking someone in a group, groups should deter them. But as it stands, you will commonly see a Thief try to jump another squishy even if they’re rolling with a few of their guild mates, because the Thief knows if it fails, he can just leave. Since there is no risk involved in these ambushes, it means the balance is off, the Thief class should be entirely about risk vs reward.

Stealth in general is a bad mechanic in MMOs. In every MMO I’ve played that involved any amount of long term stealth abilities, the classes that had them were always either overpowered or underpowered, it is incredibly hard to balance classes around this mechanic. Anet chose to stick with this cookie cutter assassin mechanic and now GW2 is yet another game where the Thief/Rogue/Assassin/whatever class will probably never see proper balance.

My thread is about heartseeker not about any other thief related problem you might have. please keep on topic.

ykyk.2740:

Didn’t you make this exact thread like half a day ago

No I didn’t ? However it wouldn’t surprise me if someone else made a thread though because its a pretty ridiculous ability.

It’s currently doing too much damage to people
It constantly hits me for 5-7k each hit and that is with around ~1700 armor.
I don’t think any abilities should be able to constantly hit this much, especially spammable ones.

EDIT:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

shagworth.5017:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I can’t dispute your experiences, since they are yours.

You do lose all credibility in my eyes with your willingness to make such sweeping generalisations.

Judging by last weeks TC/FA/YB thread your experiences aren’t shared by people on those servers either.

Don’t pay attention to the guy you quoted. I’m pretty the majority of the people who have ever read anything he’s said in team chat have him blocked. Typical guy that sits around kittening about commanders after the fact, without offering input while something is going on.

LOL I think you have the wrong guy.. I am one that is killing all the zergs with my group of 5.

My thoughts so far on both servers:

Ebay: Respectable and they have alot of talented people on their server. Had my toughest fights against Ebay.

YB: They remind me of CD apart from the fact they do seem to be better at combat overall, however their attitude is the worst I have seen out of any server I have ever versed.

konosh.4721:

The mesmer has to do the jumping puzzle.

And has to agree with opening portals.

Also, never mind the fact that people can bypass several traps in the JP with skills.

bypassing traps and not doing 3/4 of the jumping puzzle is an entirely different situation. You should have to complete the JP in order to get any loot, if you get ported to the end all the time whats the point of even having a jumping puzzle.

Nuzt.7894:

sounds to me like someone who couldn’t cut it in PvP is butt hurt because they can’t sit above killing ppl with no chance to fight back.

sounds to me like someone doesn’t know how to finish the jumping puzzle without getting ported to the end.

What is the point of the jumping puzzle when people don’t even need to jump to do it, they just run to a portal and bam they are at the end. Totally ridiculous ability that needs to be fixed.

ryan.3915:

Bones.5762:

It’s nice waking up to even maps, so glad it’s not all one color, looks to be a good fight, keep it clean guys, was kind of upset at how many hackers CD had, i know they aren’t all like that but they had ALOT of them which made it that much worst.

Probably as much as has been reported for Maguuma eh?

Why are CD still commenting on a match up that has nothing to do with them.. go back to your own thread.

Ender.3508:

We have 20 or so active people, a few are interested in WvW, many in dungeons. We’re looking for a server with low/no queues, good WvW organization, and a high enough population that dungeons are open and groups are easy to find.

Not interested in joining a server facerolling in WvW or one that has an elitist community.

Maguuma or Ehmry Bay would fit you needs very well. The other servers people have mentioned are very zergy (high tier) with que times.

Truearrow.3527:

Xavi.6591:

So Emery is an Alt-F4 server?

I have to say even with the “We’re better than you” vids they tend to post I have never had an EB player Alt-F4 on me +1 for them on that issue. I do find it comedic when players do this, it’s well worth the 2 badges I missed out on to have that player out of WvW for a good 5 minutes. Alt-F4 away people.

I am not sure about you but it takes me 15 seconds to get back into WvW

I actually came here to agree with you about the portals and downedstate.

Misleading title!

Downed state needs to be removed from pvp.
Portals need to be removed from jumping puzzles.

Xavi.6591:

So Emery is an Alt-F4 server?

You will find every server is an alt-f4 server

Doomdesire.9365:

Thief burst is extremely counterable. I used to do backstab thief, switched because it was so unreliable, and I could NEVER kill a great player. Our targets are squishies, low levels, ect. No thief is knowingly going to backstab a tank guardian or warrior, for instance. It’s a small spectrum of “OP”. I switched to P/D. Be worried about those guys, not the backstab thieves. Almost all classes have a way to counter backstab thieves.

There must be a build someone didn’t tell you, because they can chunk my 18khp in less then 1 second. If they catch me by surprise I have no time to react and I will die.

for the record my armor is at 2550

ExVoodoo.7586:

Bunzy.8674:

ExVoodoo.7586:

Bunzy.8674:

Kaimick.5109:

sparc.3649:

The ‘downed state’ itself is not what’s broke. The fact that other people can heal downed players and resurrect defeated players while in combat is the problem… Short example: a group of 25 run across a group of 40 and begin combating each other. Sure by numbers alone, the group of 40 has the odds of winning this ‘fight’. Well this mechanic almost guarantees it now. Hypothetical scenario, those 25 are actually ‘more skilled’ players and take out at least 10 of the larger group. Now it’s tilted more fair to 25 v 30, wont be for long though when 5 or so of those 30 (so it actually may become 25v25 or 25v20 for a moment) ‘bring back’ their 10 downed or defeated ‘buddies’. BAM, now it’s 25 v 40 AGAIN…! So yes, it takes battles/fights that are already outweighed and just outweighs them EVEN MORE…

So the simplest fix wouldn’t be removing the downed state, it’s a nice change to the MMO (like others have said as well). However, I fully support making it so that a player character cannot heal a downed or resurrect a defeated while in ‘combat mode’… That would be the ‘simple fix’. A player cannot waypoint while in combat mode, and you get an error message letting you know such if you try, they should just apply the same to attempting to heal a downed or resurrecting a defeated ‘friend’ while in combat mode… Then the player that’s been downed still has the opportunity to do exactly what the downed state is all about, fight for his/her life!!! It would also tilt the scale back toward balance for the battles that are already imbalanced, just as in my example above.

it is easy to discourage revive, do damage to that downed player spike him hard. Or do AoE damage. I been playing WvWvW lately and personally I have been running with a group of 15 to 18 players and we have come acrossed groups of 20 to 40 and won. Them resing was never a problem as we spiked the downed players, and others AoE’ed them. It is a matter of deterrence, not broken.

Try running with a group of 5 against 20 players and downing 10-12 of them, however the rest of the zerg just resses them up before you can finish them off. Then you will truly understand how i feel.

It’s quite awesome that you can down 10-12 people in a 5vs20, but I’m sorry to say that this game isn’t the same as the 300 movie.

To be honest, that’s just a stupid fight to get into. Running into any kind of zerg with less then half of their players, better yet only a quarter isn’t a smart idea to begin with. Though it’s just a matter of smarts on their side, if they know to keep rezing each other then good for them, they’re using teamwork and teamwork is how you beat people in WvW. I’ve been in WvW and ran with groups of people and no one revives anyone and we eventually get pushed back because of it.

I don’t really think it’s the mechanic that’s broken, just a matter of how team oriented that group is. Just remember that you have the downed state as well, so you can do the same thing under certain circumstances.

We have the skills to beat them if they remove the downed state. We are better players and highly coordinated yet we are unable to beat them all because of this kitten like mechanic. It does nothing but promote zerg beats all philosophy. The mechanic is one of the worst things I have ever had to deal with in any game. I don’t know why anyone would discourage skillfull gameplay by keeping this mechanic.

While I understand your frustration. I think you’re playing the wrong kind of PvP for what you seem to be looking for. While running around a big open map and attacking keeps is all good and fun, it’s a game type based around the efforts of an entire server, which is thousands of players and will eventually equate to a zerg no matter what.

If you want a less Zerg oriented PvP, I’d suggest tPvP or sPvP.

If they had a 5v5 deathmatch I would be all over sPvP, however in its current state I will never go near it, i have no interest in conquest.

Also does arenanet even look at these suggestions? My thread got moved here yet they didn’t even respond to my question.

Thieves spike damage is still way too high, you shouldn’t be able to instant kill someone in under 1 second.

ExVoodoo.7586:

Bunzy.8674:

Kaimick.5109:

sparc.3649:

The ‘downed state’ itself is not what’s broke. The fact that other people can heal downed players and resurrect defeated players while in combat is the problem… Short example: a group of 25 run across a group of 40 and begin combating each other. Sure by numbers alone, the group of 40 has the odds of winning this ‘fight’. Well this mechanic almost guarantees it now. Hypothetical scenario, those 25 are actually ‘more skilled’ players and take out at least 10 of the larger group. Now it’s tilted more fair to 25 v 30, wont be for long though when 5 or so of those 30 (so it actually may become 25v25 or 25v20 for a moment) ‘bring back’ their 10 downed or defeated ‘buddies’. BAM, now it’s 25 v 40 AGAIN…! So yes, it takes battles/fights that are already outweighed and just outweighs them EVEN MORE…

So the simplest fix wouldn’t be removing the downed state, it’s a nice change to the MMO (like others have said as well). However, I fully support making it so that a player character cannot heal a downed or resurrect a defeated while in ‘combat mode’… That would be the ‘simple fix’. A player cannot waypoint while in combat mode, and you get an error message letting you know such if you try, they should just apply the same to attempting to heal a downed or resurrecting a defeated ‘friend’ while in combat mode… Then the player that’s been downed still has the opportunity to do exactly what the downed state is all about, fight for his/her life!!! It would also tilt the scale back toward balance for the battles that are already imbalanced, just as in my example above.

it is easy to discourage revive, do damage to that downed player spike him hard. Or do AoE damage. I been playing WvWvW lately and personally I have been running with a group of 15 to 18 players and we have come acrossed groups of 20 to 40 and won. Them resing was never a problem as we spiked the downed players, and others AoE’ed them. It is a matter of deterrence, not broken.

Try running with a group of 5 against 20 players and downing 10-12 of them, however the rest of the zerg just resses them up before you can finish them off. Then you will truly understand how i feel.

It’s quite awesome that you can down 10-12 people in a 5vs20, but I’m sorry to say that this game isn’t the same as the 300 movie.

To be honest, that’s just a stupid fight to get into. Running into any kind of zerg with less then half of their players, better yet only a quarter isn’t a smart idea to begin with. Though it’s just a matter of smarts on their side, if they know to keep rezing each other then good for them, they’re using teamwork and teamwork is how you beat people in WvW. I’ve been in WvW and ran with groups of people and no one revives anyone and we eventually get pushed back because of it.

I don’t really think it’s the mechanic that’s broken, just a matter of how team oriented that group is. Just remember that you have the downed state as well, so you can do the same thing under certain circumstances.

We have the skills to beat them if they remove the downed state. We are better players and highly coordinated yet we are unable to beat them all because of this kitten like mechanic. It does nothing but promote zerg beats all philosophy. The mechanic is one of the worst things I have ever had to deal with in any game. I don’t know why anyone would discourage skillfull gameplay by keeping this mechanic.

Kaimick.5109:

sparc.3649:

The ‘downed state’ itself is not what’s broke. The fact that other people can heal downed players and resurrect defeated players while in combat is the problem… Short example: a group of 25 run across a group of 40 and begin combating each other. Sure by numbers alone, the group of 40 has the odds of winning this ‘fight’. Well this mechanic almost guarantees it now. Hypothetical scenario, those 25 are actually ‘more skilled’ players and take out at least 10 of the larger group. Now it’s tilted more fair to 25 v 30, wont be for long though when 5 or so of those 30 (so it actually may become 25v25 or 25v20 for a moment) ‘bring back’ their 10 downed or defeated ‘buddies’. BAM, now it’s 25 v 40 AGAIN…! So yes, it takes battles/fights that are already outweighed and just outweighs them EVEN MORE…

So the simplest fix wouldn’t be removing the downed state, it’s a nice change to the MMO (like others have said as well). However, I fully support making it so that a player character cannot heal a downed or resurrect a defeated while in ‘combat mode’… That would be the ‘simple fix’. A player cannot waypoint while in combat mode, and you get an error message letting you know such if you try, they should just apply the same to attempting to heal a downed or resurrecting a defeated ‘friend’ while in combat mode… Then the player that’s been downed still has the opportunity to do exactly what the downed state is all about, fight for his/her life!!! It would also tilt the scale back toward balance for the battles that are already imbalanced, just as in my example above.

it is easy to discourage revive, do damage to that downed player spike him hard. Or do AoE damage. I been playing WvWvW lately and personally I have been running with a group of 15 to 18 players and we have come acrossed groups of 20 to 40 and won. Them resing was never a problem as we spiked the downed players, and others AoE’ed them. It is a matter of deterrence, not broken.

Try running with a group of 5 against 20 players and downing 10-12 of them, however the rest of the zerg just resses them up before you can finish them off. Then you will truly understand how i feel.

Vigrith.8136:

Bunzy.8674:

Vigrith.8136:

Bunzy.8674:

Plok.6145:

It has no need to be changed, its one of the best new dynamics added to combat I have seen in the many games i have played. Don’t let the door hit you in the kitten

The truth is, it’s a great mechanic for bad players. I am sorry but that’s the truth of the matter.

The actual truth is that good players adapt and learn how to excel. Bad players complain and point the blame away from themselves.

Great players know what is adaptable and what is broken. The downed state is so broken it’s not even funny, it’s not even balanced.

I love how you indirectly declare yourself great and then proceed to admit that you cannot adapt to a mechanic that thousands of people all have been able to adapt to.

So let me get this straight, you are a great player but you are unable to adapt to the downed state. By virtue of you clearly infallible logic I, being one who enjoys the downed state am bad. Yet somehow in my badness I am able to adapt to a mechanic that you cannot. Awesome =)

The downed state encourages a numbers > skill wins. If you run with a zerg and pick of smaller groups no wonder you love it. You don’t adapt you abuse there is a difference. The downed state is a horrible mechanic for everyone who is skilled and a great mechanic for everyone who is bad, that’s why i have such a problem with it.

Vigrith.8136:

Bunzy.8674:

Plok.6145:

It has no need to be changed, its one of the best new dynamics added to combat I have seen in the many games i have played. Don’t let the door hit you in the kitten

The truth is, it’s a great mechanic for bad players. I am sorry but that’s the truth of the matter.

The actual truth is that good players adapt and learn how to excel. Bad players complain and point the blame away from themselves.

Great players know what is adaptable and what is broken. The downed state is so broken it’s not even funny, it’s not even balanced.

Plok.6145:

It has no need to be changed, its one of the best new dynamics added to combat I have seen in the many games i have played. Don’t let the door hit you in the kitten

The truth is, it’s a great mechanic for bad players. I am sorry but that’s the truth of the matter.

Can you stop ignoring posts made and actually respond to one for once? If you have no intentions of changing the downed state can you let me know now so I can leave this game already!?

tl;dr Remove it or change it simple. If you have no intentions to do so let me know!

Moonlite.7536:

Bunzy.8674:

@ren My guild is Original Gankstars [OG] if CD have a problem with me they can come kill me in game

While we understand you have pride for Maguuma. I would rather you not go troll the other servers as though you’ve been on Maguuma the entire time. I know I’m not the only person who frequents these forums. But as a person who came fresh from Sorrows Furnace right after there fight against HoD and ET (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Sorrows-Furnace-World-Record) i believe that is your post you started. You don’t have the right to flame the other servers as you were not here last week. I’ve loved the past 2 weeks worth of fights against Ebay and CD. CD i wish you the best of luck next week in Tier 3 and Ebay it’s round 3 against a new server.

I’m glad Ebay and Maguuma have started to get off on a better footing as I can’t remember how many times we’ve gotten our forums closed down.

PS: Before you start flaming the other servers remember there are some ppl who recognize where you come from and some of us don’t appreciate the bad reps you bring with yourself.

Yes I came from Sorrows Furnace (The reason I left was because we dominated that matchup against HoD and ET). Unlike alot of the people who play WvW I do not enjoy being on the winning server, I play WvW to kill people that is all. I don’t care about objectives or score as long as there is people to kill I am happy. I actually respect Ehmry Bay as they actually seem to have competent players who don’t need to rely on numbers to win.

Creslin.1758:

Bunzy.8674:

You don’t need certain professions to make good roaming comps just players who know what they are doing.

Try doing it with ranger…

And I mean that seriously, I would love to see someone who can make a great ranger roamer.

If you can find me a ranger who is a good player i will gladly roam with them

You don’t need certain professions to make good roaming comps just players who know what they are doing.

@ren My guild is Original Gankstars [OG] if CD have a problem with me they can come kill me in game

Speaking of skilled Maguumans if you are often running alone and would like to join a roaming guild send me a tell/mail in game.

I am with you, When I got this game I never expected to have to grind dungeons for gear. They went back on everything they said about vertical gear progression.

just dodge it as he is about to fire

Fiction.6418:

Well if titan war says it I guess it must be true… but cd? Superior tactics? I wasn’t there but in 3 weeks against your server now I have never seen anyone on your server employ tactics. I have my doubts that you even know what the word means.

there is a reason i asked for evidence

Guilds to watch out for:

AoN and OG on Maguuma
N/A on Crystal Desert (I have yet to find a challenging guild)
LzSG on Ehmry Bay

If you manage to kill any of these guilds with equal or similar numbers you have done a great job.

Titan.3472:

Hello here Titan War Commander of Omega Warlord CD [LORD] Guild

Last 3 hours in EB we had the pleasure to show our ennemies some superior tactics.

Dear Maguma, we let you take Quentin with your great zerg of 50 people as it was not upgraded and we knew that you would come to our side to hit the camp after the Hylek area.
We could provide you some nice memory pic’ of that cute zerg that met 20balistas and standed like 30sec :p

Second great move was our zerg split in 2 forces : first took lord and your zerg trying backstabbing them get backstabbed by our second team and once again (CD 20 fighters vs 50mag zerg :p)

We can provide you some video or screen on every moves you fail if you really want.

We could follow your steps posting videos but flaming a server is just not CD way of gaming we are not from the same world and we are proud to spank you because of how you troll.

Sad people can’t just play and keep their mouth close that would be fine for all to keep that thread clean but as always we wonder who has the biggest no???

As far as I have fun as CD player i don’t mind score and i wish we stay in T4 to keep learning you how to play better.

Always First in charge and last standing !

Was a great fun evening thanks to our opponents !

I want to see the videos and pictures!
Evidence is key in todays modern society.

Sotaudi.1265:

Phzt.9864:

The downed state puts a soft limit on small group warfare. Too many posts are focusing on even numbers or 1v2, 1v3. What people are complaining about is how it effects those numbers magnified to 5v15, 10v20, etc. The downed state mechanic gets more favorable for the larger/defending side the larger the fight is, which is a detriment to this game becoming something like DAOC, among other things. I understand why they put downed state in for spvp and pve, and I think they should stay there, but in WvW, it’s hindering the game’s progress toward a skill driven, small scale warfare game.

There’s nothing more discouraging then fighting a 5v13 and downing 20 people, losing none of your own because of the inability to finish. You will eventually lose or just need to run simply because they had more people that pressed a single button. In small scale, sacrificing one utility/weapon skill/class skill that ensures a finish is acceptable, but as numbers increase, the value of survival abilities scales higher as well. Popping them for finishers means you will probably die.

This idea that the revive mechanic greatly favors the larger gorup is an idea that keeps coming up in these threads. It is a flawed concept.

Attrition favors numbers; therefore, attrition favors the larger group. The revive mechanic does nothing to change that in respect to the larger group. If the larger group is able to control the fight enough to revive its players while preventing the smaller group from doing the same, then they are in enough control of the fight to win because of numbers alone.

On the other hand, if the smaller group can keep itself from over extending and can revive its own downed players while largely denying the larger group the same privilege, the smaller group becomes larger than its numbers suggest and can actually make attrition work in its favor. Thus, the claims that this mechanic works against a smaller, more skilled group are actually wrong. If you are skilled enough to take out a larger group to begin with, then you are skilled enough to turn this mechanic to your favor. Otherwise, it is simply a wash or a way to speed up the inevitable.

Its literally out of the smaller groups hand to decide if the larger group will win or not. If the larger group decides to res all their downed allies there is no possible way the smaller group can win.

Brendar.3548:

From what I gather reading all this, bunzy attacks the person downed instead of the ressers. I face palmed from that. You attack the ressers, knock them back, don’t let them res. That’s your problem. Right there. Use aoe’s to attack both the downed person and the resser, guaranteed the resser will move on their own. Attack them, and they will more likely attack back, keep pegging the downed person every few seconds to cause them to have to wait for heal cool down, but focus on the ressers. Downed state is not your problem. Your tactics are.

P.S. Going solo in WvW is also part of your problem, that’s just asking to be killed.

I have plenty of AOEs however the damage done compared to how fast people can heal is ridiculous. I do not have enough burst to do more damage then the amount of healing that is being received. I only have 2 knockbacks both are which normally on cooldown most of the time due to fighting larger enemies. So you can’t just simple AOE them or knock them back and hope to be successful. You do realise people can heal you faster then I can channel my stomp, that in itself is such a flawed game mechanic.

mischwoof.9785:

Bunzy.8674:

mischwoof.9785:

Bunzy.8674:

mischwoof.9785:

Hi guys, i’m Nisha the Medicat.

I play the game, and, indeed, have built my entire character, from the name, to my role in wvwvw, around the downed state.

Since BWE 1 i’ve been a tank spec engineer built to ressurect allies. (Hence MediCat)

Please consider what removing downed state would do to team players. You CAN have people in your group that can finish people off. Just because your class can’t do it, doesn’t mean that it’s imbalanced. The game is built around teamwork, and the downed state encourages more teamwork than any other MMO i’ve played. :>

This reminds me of healing classes from other MMOs. I thought we were all meant to be diverse in our roles in this game however now you are suggesting that we should build our team strictly around comp roles (certain res masters , and downed stompers)? You have to expand on how you say it encourages more team then any other MMO – Why? Because I have yet to see how it encourages teamwork.

I don’t get what you’re saying. You thought we were all meant to be diverse in our roles in the game, but.. me playing a team-oriented resurrection build isn’t diversity?

Don’t you think there would be LESS diversity if downed state was removed?

I never said you should build your team around roles, and I don’t know where that assumption came from. You don’t have to fill a niche role to finish players off. All you have to do is be aware, and have a skill in your arsenal that can secure a finish.

It’s kind of shocking to hear that you don’t know how teamwork and the downed state tie in together! Allow me to explain (Because I love to!)

Teamwork is quite simply, people working together. Whenever Team A’s ally goes down, teamwork is encouraged on both sides. Team A is going to try to push up and save that ally, because if they don’t, they’ll lose manpower, and more importantly, if they die, they’ll rally any Team B members that are downed.

Team B is going to actively seek and try to finish that downed Team A member, because it will rally downed allies, and it will reduce Team A’s forces. Likewise, Team A is trying to do the same thing to any downed Team B forces.

I have never seen so many people that don’t know each other at all work together in a game until now. I’ve been in assaults where the entire group of people that were retreating, would go back and extract one person. Downed State brings players closer together!

So you are saying I should be complaining about my class rather then the downed state? The other day I was in a 3v1 and must of taken each one down twice however was unable to finish them off as the other two just kept ressing their fallen ally up before I could even finish any kind of channeling ability, I also couldn’t out dps the healing they were doing. The mechanic is so wrong on all levels and eventually people will see this.

Judging from your post history, you seem to do both. :<

Can’t you finish while mist forming? Maybe that fight would’ve been different if you did. I don’t see how a game mechanic is wrong on all levels because you weren’t outfitted to fight multiple people.

I tried using Mist Form, however the majority of the time I was still on cooldown having used it to survive the three enemies. This mechanic encourages numbers beat skill. That’s my problem with it.

Brooke.9741:

Why make 2 threads on the same subject?

One is Old and One is New.

I feel the old one has more insight on the issues.

silverphoenix.6571:

Bunzy.8674:

Dimk.5293:

I have nothing against ability of resurrect. Downed state what I’m against.

Yer this is exactly how I feel hopefully I am not confusing people when I say downed state.

Wait, now I’m confused. You’d rather immediately die, tie up teammates who need to rez you (and be useless to them while they do so) rather than try to pick yourself back up or stay in the fight while they help you?

Yes! Exactly this I would love it if this happened.

mischwoof.9785:

Bunzy.8674:

mischwoof.9785:

Hi guys, i’m Nisha the Medicat.

I play the game, and, indeed, have built my entire character, from the name, to my role in wvwvw, around the downed state.

Since BWE 1 i’ve been a tank spec engineer built to ressurect allies. (Hence MediCat)

Please consider what removing downed state would do to team players. You CAN have people in your group that can finish people off. Just because your class can’t do it, doesn’t mean that it’s imbalanced. The game is built around teamwork, and the downed state encourages more teamwork than any other MMO i’ve played. :>

This reminds me of healing classes from other MMOs. I thought we were all meant to be diverse in our roles in this game however now you are suggesting that we should build our team strictly around comp roles (certain res masters , and downed stompers)? You have to expand on how you say it encourages more team then any other MMO – Why? Because I have yet to see how it encourages teamwork.

I don’t get what you’re saying. You thought we were all meant to be diverse in our roles in the game, but.. me playing a team-oriented resurrection build isn’t diversity?

Don’t you think there would be LESS diversity if downed state was removed?

I never said you should build your team around roles, and I don’t know where that assumption came from. You don’t have to fill a niche role to finish players off. All you have to do is be aware, and have a skill in your arsenal that can secure a finish.

It’s kind of shocking to hear that you don’t know how teamwork and the downed state tie in together! Allow me to explain (Because I love to!)

Teamwork is quite simply, people working together. Whenever Team A’s ally goes down, teamwork is encouraged on both sides. Team A is going to try to push up and save that ally, because if they don’t, they’ll lose manpower, and more importantly, if they die, they’ll rally any Team B members that are downed.

Team B is going to actively seek and try to finish that downed Team A member, because it will rally downed allies, and it will reduce Team A’s forces. Likewise, Team A is trying to do the same thing to any downed Team B forces.

I have never seen so many people that don’t know each other at all work together in a game until now. I’ve been in assaults where the entire group of people that were retreating, would go back and extract one person. Downed State brings players closer together!

So you are saying I should be complaining about my class rather then the downed state? The other day I was in a 3v1 and must of taken each one down twice however was unable to finish them off as the other two just kept ressing their fallen ally up before I could even finish any kind of channeling ability, I also couldn’t out dps the healing they were doing. The mechanic is so wrong on all levels and eventually people will see this.

Kirrund.2654:

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

That’s not me. Your reading comprehension is pretty atrocious tbh. Also, the first one is not just one single fight. There’s several fights where players don’t go down, and we fight 6-8 times our number and come out on top. Your argument was also about how downed state only helps skilless players. So, because we use downed state when far outnumbered we’re obviously not skilled.

Your argument is quickly breaking down. If you run a small group and can’t take out larger numbers, complaining that the downed skill is the reason why, but we can, but yet we’re bad because we used the downed skill(something that is only supposed to help zergs and hurt small groups); wait a minute, what?

You don’t want to accept that you’re wrong, and that you’re not god’s gift to pvp and that you need more practice and should re-evaluate how you play.

You aren’t taking out large numbers -.- you are fighting like ~10 people. They are also underlevelled and undergeared. You are lucky you are on a bottom tier match up. I think if you guys are serious you should transfer to Ehmry Bay.

Yep, you clearly opened and immediately closed the link. I’m not going to do the work for you and find the timestamps. The fights are in there. You’re the one with the problem, who can’t figure out how to win. I also said we already transferred to dragonbrand. Nothing changed. Still wiping outnumbering groups. Do you just like skim everything or what?

Well hopefully Dragonbrand ends up versing Maguuma thats all I am going to say on this matter.

Also if you want to watch a video where the enemy actually attempts to res their fallen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npQFOrc4Gxg for you.

Right, because there’s nothing else you can say. You’ve already been proven wrong, you won’t admit to it, and that’s fine. Go ahead and make a few more threads complaining about the downed state, instead of swallowing your pride and trying to approach your problem from a better angle. I look forward to squashing zergs on Maguuma if/when it ever happens. I am not saying that we’re the best in the world or that we never lose. There are zergs that are simply so unmanageable in numbers that they are too much. But there is certainly video evidence of at least one 3-7 man group taking on numbers 30, 40, and 50 at a time, and winning, whether you want to accept that or not. Good players look for ways to win and accept that there is always something to learn, always a way to get better. Bad players refuse to adapt, and instead complain about stuff they blame for their loss.

As for the video, you 4 were fighting about 8 players. You also went down and died at 2:45, and your group was scattered and not sticking together. Amazing video play. 10/10

If people had your attitude that you always just have to adapt, technology would not be where it is today. While you can adapt to a certain degree you also have to look at how to better the environment you are in. There is always a better way to do something and it’s only a few gifted individuals that can see this. This is why our technology is always improving because people question can we do this better and if so how?

Dimk.5293:

SpaceLord.4590:

Not really. Your view is very narrow.

The rez function also helps the small group trying to defend a keep or tower against a zerg as well. If you are on the wall on seige and get AOE’d by the zerg, one of the other 5 can rez you so you can keep defending.

It goes both ways.

I have nothing against ability of resurrect. Downed state what I’m against.

Yer this is exactly how I feel hopefully I am not confusing people when I say downed state.

Kirrund.2654:

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

That’s not me. Your reading comprehension is pretty atrocious tbh. Also, the first one is not just one single fight. There’s several fights where players don’t go down, and we fight 6-8 times our number and come out on top. Your argument was also about how downed state only helps skilless players. So, because we use downed state when far outnumbered we’re obviously not skilled.

Your argument is quickly breaking down. If you run a small group and can’t take out larger numbers, complaining that the downed skill is the reason why, but we can, but yet we’re bad because we used the downed skill(something that is only supposed to help zergs and hurt small groups); wait a minute, what?

You don’t want to accept that you’re wrong, and that you’re not god’s gift to pvp and that you need more practice and should re-evaluate how you play.

You aren’t taking out large numbers -.- you are fighting like ~10 people. They are also underlevelled and undergeared. You are lucky you are on a bottom tier match up. I think if you guys are serious you should transfer to Ehmry Bay.

Yep, you clearly opened and immediately closed the link. I’m not going to do the work for you and find the timestamps. The fights are in there. You’re the one with the problem, who can’t figure out how to win. I also said we already transferred to dragonbrand. Nothing changed. Still wiping outnumbering groups. Do you just like skim everything or what?

Well hopefully Dragonbrand ends up versing Maguuma thats all I am going to say on this matter.

Also if you want to watch a video where the enemy actually attempts to res their fallen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npQFOrc4Gxg for you. Unfortunate for us we don’t have a thief that spams #2 all day on the downed people