Guild Wars 2

Les.4872:

How about you wait till the next test weekend before you start barking on the forums?

Maybe because we already saw every trait and skill, did our maths, and figured how far can go.

Anyway, I’ll wait until the weekend to chose either the 30 € or the 80 € version of the expansion; due I’m mostly involved in PvP/WvW my grade of support will be related about the level of usefulness of the Renegade in those landscapes.

I’ll drop to the floor every ud stuff I get, as I do with every sigil and rune from the mats I currently salvage. Yeah, I’ll lose “money”, but it’s comfy, and I play to get fun, not to be rich in virtual gol.

Fortunatelly is possible to use the Renegade traitline, wield the shortbow and then to ditch entirely the Kalla legend, using something like Mallyx + Shiro and Corruption/Invocation/Renegade with mace + axe and shortbow for an optimal build. And if the shot bow falls being subpar could be replaced for the staff; at least the traitline would offer a condition damage buff.

But yeah, Kalla is a weak choice both in terms of skills (“stances”) and lore.

You can mix up legends, weapons and traitlines, but some of them had sinergies so they are optimal and sub-optimal combos.

Starting for the weapons, the mace and axe are oriented towards condition damage or at least hybrid damage; Mallyx is the legend focused on this kind of damage and Corruption the traitline specialized towards condi.

The swords, hammer and staff only do physical damage. Shiro is an offensive legend wich benefits the most with the Devastation traitline and with the use of swords.

Jalis is a legend oriented towards (cof, cof) tankiness and Retribution is his traitline. The staff, the off hand sword, the hammer and (only if you use the Herald specialization) the shield do provide defensive skills (which can do well in any build, by the way).

Ventari is focused in healing and support, and his traitline Salvation has sinergies with the staff.

Glint and her traitline Herald is oriented towards boon sharing and support, providing also access to the shield. Due is one of the strongest legends, is pretty common to use Glint paired with almost every other legend.

Finally, Invocation is a “neutral” traitline which benefits the use and swap of legends. Oftenly people do chose their 2 legends and their associated traitlines and then do use Salvation as the third one.

Must be said also that the number of optimal traits in each line are small, so theres not much variety inside the builds.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Buran.3796:

ANet will give stealth + backstab to the Orr Abominations before letting a Rev to gain access to stability.

Except they have a legend and a traitline almost dedicated to defense and stability

Except Jalis doesn’t either work as a tank or as a bruiser. No one uses Jalis in Conquest or roaming; if you fight against any bruiser or tank in the game (including Ventari Rev) using Jalis in your build you will gonna die.

Something is wrong when your legend devoted to defense do reduce your sustain and chances of survival if you use it. And I’m not asking for stability: I’m now used to play without stab. What I’m searching for is for solutions to make the duels vs classes with high mobility and easy access to stealth and power/condition burst and cc (thieves, mesmers… ) to be less one-sided. That’s the reason due I don’t see things like shortbow #5 being a thing, outside PvE raids. I can’t land an interruptable AoE over a foe that I can’t watch, and the burn duration seems small (so I can’t figth in my own flames as easily as a Warrior).

Cenda.2814:

http://i.imgur.com/VGJFGxQ.jpg Renegade traits

Ruh-roh.

That seems a PvE oriented traitline.

I mean:

• You gain stacks of Fervor and enhanced damage and Fury as long as you don’t evade.

• Is mostly a dps enhancer vs non dangerous foes, with a couple of team oriented traits.

• There’s a single cripple, which is the only cc available (soft orhard).

• The traitline has 0 stunbreaks, 0 condition cleanses, 0 access to swiftness, quickness, motion gaps or invulnerability frames. And of course there’s no stability: ANet will give stealth + backstab to the Orr Abominations before letting a Rev to gain access to stability.

So, that is. I see very poor sinergy with the Corruption traitline. Theoretically the Renegade spec brings the condi Rev the ability to wield a ranged hybrid weapon (short bow), enhances the damage and that’s all. Summons are pretty much useless pets for anything besides fighting the A.I.

The shortbow itself has his own set of problems (no defensive skill in a 5 skill weapon, no cc, no mobility), and I guess that most of Revs interested in using a hybrid build for roaming or PvP will use Mallyx + Shiro. Is possible that some of them even resign the shorbow because as pure damage dealers the mace + axe combo seems stronger and due the lack of defensive capabilities of both setups (shortbow/mace+axe) one of them should make room for the staff (otherwise two evades and a couple of stunbreaks are the only obstacle between you and the death).

Those two are the best ones.

Zenith.7301:

Well, staff is garbage anyways and needs buffs and significant energy reductions.

Staff is a must in PvP and roaming, no matter if you use a power or condition build. Even more, taking in consideration that aparently the shortbow has NO DEFENSIVE SKILLS I highly doubt about the Renegade being able to bring to the table a viable PvP/roaming build. And even if you’re talking about PvE, staff is the best defiant bar breaker tool in the game.

^ As always. I mean: you can use 2 spears in HoT. I use one with zerker stats and another with viper stats. You didn’t known?

Rev only has one aquatic weapon (spear), but you can equip 2 of them to get at least the advantages of the sigils and stats based on what you fight against. Nothing new here.

The cursor is the main offense here. There’s a reason due 90+% of top PvP players are using Yolomouse.

instead of selling weapon skins and armor outfits the Black Lion should sell for gems different kinds of cursors with different shapes, sizes and colors. I’ll bought without regrets.

The UI should also have options to scale up the size: some icons are barely visible on a 27" 2560 × 1440 display… And some of us are thinking about changing to 4k…

Draven.4397:

Devastation trait swap is suboptimal. Hopefully the buffs to Focused Symphoning, Assasins Annihilation and Enchanted Daggers stayed 20%.

I agree, no longer is possible to combo Malicious Reprisal + Assassin’s Presence, so AP falls in disgrace to me and goes right to the paper bin. On paper seems that Malicious Reprisal got a buff (more damage, cd reduced to 20) but now it triggers also when you block, so you have a lot less control over when goes active and probably you will lose seconds of attacks due the duration of your own blocks. Overall could be even counter productive.

Despite that, the patch could have been worse (way worse); a lot of classes and builds were hit by a truck; Revenant escaped unscathed and with a few buffs (mostly PvE oriented).

Glint is the better legend to either team up with Shiro (power builds) or Mallyx (condition builds). At least in PvP/WvW roaming and duelling. Glint provides too much useful tools (swiftness, boons, blind, reveal…) plus huge cc/area damage to replace it in competitive enviroments. Of course in team PvE other choices are made due some classes do fill the weakness of some builds, kitten happens in raid WvW where the Guardians and Warriors do provide swiftness, so Rev can be relegated to be a resistance bot and road paving works.

My fear about the renegade is about the bow being its only redeeming quality and the legend becoming useless at roaming/duelling/pvping, so you end using a couple of weapons + Mallyx, and don’t touch the new legend ever.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

The new elite spec has all targetted skills, does that mean we won’t be able to use kalla underwater?

Mallyx has some targeted skills and is usable under water, albeit due Glint lacks underwater skills the Renegade spec probably won’t add anything to the issue.

@Wishmaster.7693

Mounts will be available in WvW and PvP? Call me surprised! Otherwise, if you’re talking about mobility in PvE, mobility is never an issue in PvE, no matter the class.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Revenant has easy access to swiftness, it’s just people don’t know how to blast the road :p
Also there’s a trait in invocation that grants you perma swiftness

Good to hear about that trait, because using Jalis and a blast combo to move around seems a waste of time for roaming/PvP.

Correct me if I’m wrong but… the new spec has 0 access to swiftness, quickness or close gaps in the #6 – #10 skill bar? So, in trade for a ranged condition weapon (finally) we must move like a snail or use the Traveller runes and lose damage?

MaximumSquid.6074:

The PvP was what kept me playing GW:1 for years
I burned out of GW:2 PvP in <3 months

PoF has ~0% new content for PvP (aside from the new specs). And the pace of balancing patches in PvP is one each 3 months. Plus, base population in this game mode is so low that matchmaking oftenly mixes players of several tiers of difference.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The lack of any mention of PvP leads me to assume we’ll be seeing another two years of Conquest-only PvP. Are new specs really all we can expect for a five-year-old game?

Both WvW and PvP are ded parts of the game; they are trying to stop the gangrene to reach other parts to prevent a peritonitis. For the moment both are still attached to the body (but isolated by tourniques like lack of gains/incentives), but further amputations can’t be discarded…

Temihal.8651:

Obtena.7952:

A little off topic … Glint in condition damage is a thing to begin with?. I suspect this elite spec, if it supplies a condi shortbow … will suspect it supports a condi and/or shortbow build in the first place. At least much better than Glint ever did.

Glint has a burn, a good heal and might + fury are never bad. But even then it’s not the best choice in a condi build.
So no, Renegade will not miss Glint.

Glint provides through Elemental Blast fire damage and chill (which also provides torment when properly traited). I did spent most of my time in the current PvP season playing a condition build with Glint + Mallyx and the Deadshot amulet (albeit most of the time was in gold 3 and wasn’t able to reach plat). I do think that Glint is better than Shiro for condi builds (way better cleave damage and cc) but anyway the new legend should be way better with conditions and I do expect Mallyx + whatever to be a decent combo… Or at least was what I hoped until I saw the pets. The only pet build that works in the game is Mesmer and only because has stealth…

Should have been a tank spec or a full healing spec. Currently Guardian is far from being the best tank in the game nor the best healer. Guardian only shines as support class in WvW raids or as dps class in in low to mid PvP matches.

All Matters Fecal.9560:

How is this build in the meta tier and how are other people using it with success? I am so at a loss.

Power Rev only works if you’re able to read the mid of the enemy player and to use evade/block/blind to neuter the important attacks and to play (very) patiently.

Against players as smart/skilled as you is extremely hard to win a fight, specially in roaming, where enemies aren’t constricted to try to defend or break a control point, and where most of the other classes have better tools to pressure you at range and/or disengage or reset the skirmish.

In PvP is a bit better because control points matter, but anyway the main goal of this build in PvP is to roam and being a +1 (a role in which is worse than the current Thief builds). You have no balance access, no stealth, almost no condition cleanses and your skills have both cooldowns and high energy cost, so no one is expecting you to being able to beat similar skilled players using other classes. Is a high risk – low reward clas which also happens to be hard to use. Deal with it.

Everything seems as was leaked. The shorbow is a good selection (albeit I would prefer pistol or longbow) but the pet AI thing is a total waste (the game already has a bunch of classes using pets). Also, the rate of fire seems glacial.

I have no clue about if it’s going to help the Rev to win duels, specially taking in consideration that the Thief and Mesmer specs will have access to EVEN MORE stealth.

Vayne.8563:

WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.

The two WvW guilds in which I’ve been on along four years (which peaked around ~40 and ~30 members, respectively) did entitely fade, so also fade ~3/4 of the ones I known. Hell, even 1/3 of the initial servers no longer exist.

Score is decided basically in absence: the first rated server if fighting against no one. My server (Gandara) is scoring this weekend 7,1k vs 4,7k vs 2,7k, which means that really there’s no one out there. “Life support” is truly an euphemism here. Same goes with PvP.

Most of the people which I made friendship in the game did leave BECAUSE HoT, and the next expansion looks alike to go in the same way. I known that those players WON’T return, so ANet should cross fingers to try to appeal as much new players as possibur, because the old, milked cow is dry.

Kadj.6725:

Olympics are a bad comparison because at the end of the day, in a game of skill, Abj won.

Bad response. The right answer should be: because sports and olympics is real life and it matters, while this thing was just a kitten game and nobody cares.

Next time train for the olympics, guys, instead of losing time facing a display full of colorful pixels.

Captain Obvious.6951:

And lastly one of the most important things in this game is the ability to stomp downed players in pvp. There’s no safe way for Rev to do this. Guardians can use block, Engi can elixer to shrink, hell even necro can block and gain stability. Ele can pop block skill i mean on an on. Our only option would be to use Dwarf legend to make a road to gain stability? That’s asking a lot, using a kitten Legend in pvp just to be able to stomp. It’s rather sad.

There’s some ways to stomp outisde Jalis, as using Glazing of Darkness to blind and cross the fingers to not lose the single balance stack. But after the nerf to Unwavering Avoidance in October of the last year I just take on that the Rev isn’t designed to stomp or to have stability at all, so I cleave everyyhing that falls to the floor. Stomping isn’t a part of the Rev gameplay. You simply don’t have stomp, as neither you have access to stealth.

Shield isn’t really as important due is a spec weapon, and as soon as the next spec arrives Glint and shield will probably rest obsolete for at least 6-18 months, as happened with the core builds. And I say this a a player which waste time crafting the Flameseeker.

Is not anywhere close to your power/tanky reaper, but for HoT maps I find that the tankiest, most faster mob killer DH is a Dire build based on fire damage: you will be extra tankier while being able to decimate the fauna effortlessly, and can even work with base Guardian.

Being said that, HoT maps should give 0 problems to a full zerker DH using longbow and sword + focus (or shield). If you’re having problems of survability you should care first to your gameplay and skill/trait selection and use before taking a look over the stats. In this game the best way to negate damage is evading, blocking, blinding, using cc… Instead of having big numbers in your HP and armor stats.

I mean, you can win a match and join WvW instantly from the end screen, but you can’t do the same in you lose. Before the changes you can login to WvW after the match no matter the result, as long as you were outside combat…

So I waste time leaving the PvP match to join the PvP hall just to leave it again… Makes no sense.

Also, why the selection of the map in a PvP match STILL covers the center of the screen? Oftenly it does interfere with the things you’re doing (trading, duelling, mining ore… ).

Kaburro.4712:

You cant allow any class or combo to cc someone till the death, as someone said in WoW (I’ve traded wow for gw2 because of graphics, shame on me) this doesn’t happen. and that why they still in business and you not.

Shame on you, yes. People come to GW2 from WoW, some stay, some leave, but very few will return from GW2/BDO PvP to WoW. Despite still being big in numbers, WoW wasn’t but hemorraging players in a row in the last 5 years. And Blizzard since the Activision merge isn’t but a clusterkitten.

Ragnarox.9601:

Srry but I have 3k armor and being hit by 12k CoR or 5k autoattacks does not make it non viable at all. They nerfed TS 3x times and it does not even hit that amount of dmg now with a 6 sec cd.

Guard hammer is also slowest weapon in the game and imagine its 3rd hit with simbol doing 12k dmg…

Sorry but Rev’s hammer #1 is one of the slowest auto attacks in the game (1s), which means that despite the damage x hit is big, the overall damage over time is not exceptional (DH’s Longbow has better dps). CoR was already nerfed (from a 4s cd to 6s) and as Justine said the Rev hammer is a very telegraphed weapon.

If you are below the 50% HP treshold is perfectly fine for a power Rev with Rolling Mist + Swift Termination + Enchanted Daggers to hit you for 12k+ critical damage, because power hammer Rev is essentially a glass canon with no access to stability and pos access to condition cleansing which lacks the survability, sustain or disengaging tools which makes other classes to shine in roaming.

At this moment condition builds are prevalent in WvW roaming; Revenant is currently a underrepresented class in that landscape because is hard to use and doesn’t have clear advantages (high risk, low reward). Power hammer Rev is even less used. I’m not against a nerf per se, but you’re aiming towards a underperforming build from a underperforming class which no one is abusing of, which makes no sense.

PlagueParade.7942:

Lately I have been seeing revs using mace/axe and staff, which works pretty well. Anyone know of the build setup for it?

I’m using this one:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXmn3geNSuQvJRfoLlsR0kS4G6RJ4EtrklTlhNpmmyO93nPNgDaA-TpRHQBiY/B/VG4hPAAmdIAK4RAAAnAAA

Copy & pasting myself from another thread:

Equilibrium & Rapid Flow can be interchanged, and there’s room to replace the weapon sigils (since the last balance update all are almost equally bad).

Pros: 21500 HP, high base crit chance (more torment procs), good access to chill (Unyielding Anguish, Elemental Blast, Frigid Blitz and both heals thanx to the Rune of Grenth) which also procs more torment, +30% chill duration, decent mobility, excellent AoE cc and condi damage.

Cons: 0 access to stability, almost no range game, low armor.
So far 16/10 w/l ratio with this one in t3 gold, should push me to platinum in a week or so.

I’m using this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXmn3geNSuQvJRfoLlsR0kS4G6RJ4EtrklTlJNgDagNpmmyO93nH-TpRHQB+rMgI2fgZHCgCeEAe4DAAAnAAA

Equilibrium & Rapid Flow can be interchanged, and there’s room to replace the weapon sigils (since the last balance update all are almost equally bad).

Pros: 21500 HP, high base crit chance (more torment procs), good access to chill (Unyielding Anguish, Elemental Blast, Frigid Blitz and both heals thanx to the Rune of Grenth) which also procs more torment, +30% chill duration, decent mobility, excellent AoE cc and condi damage.

Cons: 0 access to stability, almost no range game, low armor.

So far 16/10 w/l ratio with this one in t3 gold, should push me to platinum in a week or so (not playing much at this moment, focused in Tekken 7 and other things at this moment).

fashion.6712:

But i feel the traps are ok while the bow is pretty much garbage. Autoattack is like pinching the enemy with needles. The “burst” shot, trueshot, has a long cooldown and does just underpar damage compared to ranger.

[…]

So DH isnt actually a hunter but a melee with an emergency range option?

True Shot was nerfed two times (-20% damage, +50% cooldown). At the HoT release the DH longbow was like 5x times better than the only other ranged weapon from the Guardian: the Scepter.

The DH is a great roamer/duellist, and that’s all.

Nephrenka.4789:

- Would Rev be a good choice for solo/duo roaming in WvW
- If so, which build is currently efficient in that regard ?

In solo you’ll be hardcounter by a lot of stealth users, specially if they use condition builds and ranged attacks.

If you’re roaming alone as a power Rev you need to master every block/evade/blind and being able to read every enemy animation and react in time to success, but played at the highest level is the strongest build this class has.

Solo condi Rev isn’t as strong but requieres less skill,because you can fight inside your AoE condis and the build can be customized to be tanky, which leaves more room for mistakes. Still, ranged kitting and classes with tools to reset the fight will be your bane.

Roaming in a duo or small team I’ll advise to go condi: power Rev loses burst potential when is more than one target involved, and is very vulnerable to cc. If you roam with a partnes I’ll recomend you to either an Ele (for the cleanses and the combined AoE cc potential) or a ranged class with stealth access (Ranger, DH, Mesmer… even Thief). Essentially you can work as the bait, putting a lot of pressure due torment, chills and fire, whereas your partner should save its ranged burst against any attempt to disengage.

Stealth (disengage and fight reset) is the only thing that stands between those pesky thieves and your victory. So if you gonna play with a friend chose one with a good ranged burst or cc (better if can stealth himself) and just crush your enemies.

1) Most of the skills have now larger coodowns, bigger energy cost or both (albeit there’s some exceptions).

2) Power Rev lost ~1/3 of its damage at both range and mele; still, is the most effective 1 vs 1 and roaming build available, albeit does have a lot of disfavorable matchups and in PvP is used more as +1 and decapper.

3) Condi Rev was recently enhanced and is viable in small skirmishes, but lacks pressure at range; heal/support Rev was both nerfed in terms of boon sharing but the Ventari legend was buffed, so can somewhat work in Conquest.

4) In WvW Mallyx Rev is still crucial for raids because how can cleanse conditions and null its damage, albeit both as range damage provider and as bot boonsharing is weaker that with the HoT expansion; is also arguably one of the weakest roamers in the game because after the nerfs has no answer vs enemies poking at range or abusing stealth (which happens to be the most valuable tool in the current roaming landscape).

5) In PvE works, but after the Naturalistic Resonance huge nerf (-34%) this class is no longer required for an optimal team class distribution in raids so most of the pugs won’t want a Rev in their grup since any aspect of the game (dps, cleansing, support…) can be provided by other classes with either better damage or stronger support.

Conditions aren’t a problem. The true problem is how broken is stealth in this game (which happens in most of MMOs: invisibility is alway a pest, and most of developers aren’t unable to balance it in action games).

Thief is the clas with wider access to stealth, so in good hands the only two outcomes of a 1 vs 1 againts a thief are either 1) defeat or 2) the Thief reset the fight using his mobility or steatlh and then comes again with his stats/cooldowns restored.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Can I just say I’m happy that Ventari, once considered the most worthless legend, is actually getting serious use?

Did anyone used it at the tournament? Because if doesn’t work vs decent teams then “worthless legend” is still a term in good use.

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Victory screens are actually quite common in PvP games. Aside from being able to finish fights, which isn’t really a big deal imo, I can’t see why such a feature would be fine in other games, but not in GW2…

I was once recruited in a small PvP clan after fighting (and losing) in a fierce match. Chat usually has so much bile that players probably wouldn’t ever worry to reply any incoming message coming a team desecrating their corpses.

Also I always saw the “dancing upon the defeated enemy” in Unreal Tournament a bit a combo between being childish and having some mental kittenation.

I just did play a match (gold) in which the enemy team had 2 DH and a Necro, while ours had 2 Necro and I was playing a condi Rev. Fighting the DH in 1 vs 1 was hard but not overwhelming; in teamfights instead we demolished them every time. Our combined cc and AoE condi damage was just off of the charts.

I agree in which is bad: prevents interesting duels on run at the end of the match and no one uses the new stage since I see that both most of the winners and all the losers leave the match instantly after is done.

I guess that is a poor ANet attempt to make the matches faster.

Thoth Divine.8642:

Thoughts?

The ones interested in the PvP ascended armor got 5 of 6 pieces in season 5 (like me), then the skin for the latest one in the 6th.

After that there’s no reason to play PvP for monetary gains, is all about trolling, and anyway PvP is ded.

igotswings.7520:

I made it to platinum with a condi rev. It can’t be that bad =/

I scored 100 points below plat using condi Rev in the classification matches, no big deal. Is a disgusting ballast. Is mostly a PvE pony and the tournament roster shows it.

Kuya.6495:

Buran.3796:

Kuya.6495:

Why don’t you just use condi rev instead.

Did any team use a condi Rev in UGO tournament?

Not necessarily what works in solo queue is also great for organized 5v5s. Take for example DH.

But DH was used in the tournament, so at least has some viability at top game, aside from being good vs mediocre players. Condi Rev has both no use at top game and is also a poor choice vs unorganized teams.

Kuya.6495:

Why don’t you just use condi rev instead.

Did any team use a condi Rev in UGO tournament?

I disagree. Both Mallyx, Jalis and Ventari have stat requirements so far away from what’s optimal for power Shiro+Glint than adding a third legend swap does nothing for the theoretical builds.

Condition cleansing is a relatively minor problem compared with the other problems the class has (0 access to reliable stability, no availability of a ranged condition weapon, easy to be poked to death by classes with access to stealth or high mobility because the huge cost of energy + the cooldowns makes us ultra weak vs “hit & run” tactics.

What you get from 120 matches?

Saiyan.1704:

Buran.3796:

Hunter’s Determination is a garbage trait to use. A random proc with 75 sec cd? Any of the alternatives is better.

Any trait that can proc and prevent a down by denying a burst CC, is a darn good trait.

Any trait that promotes passive play should be discouraged, and any trait with random passive activation which so long cooldown deserves to be discarded.

For the people which likes that kind of gameplay I would fervently suggest to play the Warrior (which is rich in passive procs, way more powerful and with smaller cooldowns).

Hunter’s Determination is a garbage trait to use. A random proc with 75 sec cd? Any of the alternatives is better.

Esquilax.3491:

. Or maybe try hammer to fill the gaps as it is now.

If you gear to condi then you hammer damage will be meaningless. And your condi damage will happen only with crits (too random) and chills from Phase Smash.

Which is why condi Rev lacks range game: mace and axe “ranged damage” doesn’t work if your foe can fight at range and doesn’t need to stay in an area (like the control points in PvP).

Crinn.7864:

Buran.3796:

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.

Condi rev yes, power rev no.

Condi Rev isn’t even a thing. At high skill level Necro has clearly an edge over the Rev; the only reson due Necro wasn’t as popular as Revs in the pro tournaments is the lack of mobility which prevented Necros from being good at +1/decapping. But at the current state, after all the nerfs to power Revs, and the sigil and runes eliminated in PvP, Necro has the upper hand in a 1 vs 1.

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.