Guild Wars 2

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

You play a Thief, you only played a Warrior temporarily to learn about them. Your not a hard-core Warrior player.

I have almost as many games played as warrior as I have playing as thief for sPvP.

Show me a picture of “Games by profession.”

http://i.imgur.com/K1gSsqE.png

Not that i’m saying your a liar, but could you show the stats/wins/loses as well?

http://i.imgur.com/1JaXd71.jpg

Wait…wait

So you’ve been commenting on how OP Warriors are in PvP and yet you’ve hardly played any PvP at all!?

Even if you were arguing from a WvW point of view, the balance in that game mode will ALWAYS be bad. The differences of gear/food means it’ll always be chaos there, which to me is half the fun.

I feel like I’ve wasted so much time arguing with a guy unqualified to actually have their opinion taken seriously.

With with upcoming changes to Vigorous Shouts and Quick Breathing being moved to Adept I’ve started working on some rough drafts of possible builds. For any sort of tanky build you’ll of course need 30 into tactics but also 20 into defense for Last Stand if you plan of taking 3 shouts, you need some form of Stability. As to what shouts to take the two given ones are For Great Justice or Shake it Off. The last one is probably going to be personal preference. On my Mark will recharge twice as fast as Fear Me, but up to 3 seconds AoE fear is certainly good for clearing points as well. I’m also unsure on what Amulet to run. Cleric would be good for high heals but Valk gives you more power and critical damage, which means you should still deal some decent damage when you’re using Unsuspecting Foe.

Replace “Empower Allies” with “Quick Breathing.”

Build 1

Adrenaline gain on this one will be pretty low but you’ll also be using less because you don’t have a Longbow.

Build 2

More adrenaline gain here, no Fast Hands is probably going to be off the table no matter what build because I don’t like the idea of any stun based build without Unsuspecting Foe.

Build 3

A DPS focused build. With Restorative Strength, Berserker Stance, and Quick Breathing you should hopefully be able to keep conditions off you long enough to take down your target. I could actually see Bow + Sword/Warhorn being better considering how hard Arching Shot and Final Thrust can hit, not to mention Combustive Shot.

These builds are still fairly rough around the edges. I’m not really sure healing shouts will see that much use in PvP considering support isn’t all that popular, I don’t feel that healing + Regen alone will make Warrior good mid bunkers (you can get Protection from QB but you have to remove vulnerability and it’s not reliable), although they could be decent home ones. I do know it’ll give WvW Warriors a chance to change up their playstyle though.

Steelo.4597:

dude the burst mastery trait says COST LESS. so cleansing ire removing 3 conditions is clearly A BUG and needs fixing. the trait doesnt say “refunds adrenaline”. 90% warriors play 0 10 30 0 30 just because of that combo, its cheap. also 3.45 seconds instead of 4 seconds is still almost a full 100b every 11 seconds or so – just broken crap. 2.3 seconds would still do decent damage and not kill 80% of the wvw pop instantly. but youd actually have to get some other hits in or use frenzy, not just your 3-button autowin combo – scratch that crap. and they could buff mace #3 or the damage or something, nobody disagrees with mace being only good for that cheap combo. ok maybe its usefull aswell for a full block/reflection build but thats it.

That last .5 seconds of 100b is the most damaging so losing that last hit will be a major DPS hit. The whole reason Skull Crack got buffed was that it was lackluster compared to Earthshaker. Stop thinking as it as 1v1 balance and think about the team balance.

I’m actually fine with it. The builds will still be strong, but it’ll be a bit of a DPS hit which if fine because that means there’s no reason to nerf anything else. 100b has a 3.5 second cast time and Skull Crack will only last 3.45 seconds. Basically this just means that you go for a Whirlwind Attack or something instead of going for that last 100b strike.

I thought the sigil should have been changed ages ago so I’m not all that torn up. Also they are moving the Warhorn trait to Adept and buffing heal shouts, which means yet another viable playstyle for us.

Skull Crack should stay as is. Before it was a bit lackluster compared to Earthshaker because it stunned the same duration but was single target. I do think it could use some sort of particle effect around the mace when it’s used to make it a bit easier to see but other than that it’s fine.

Perfected my barbarian appearance…

Second is PvP

The solution is buffs to other classes, not nerfs.

Bhawb.7408:

Or they could fix warriors, and basically every class that has very limited options.

I’m not arguing that warriors need to be nerfed or buffed, or CC needs to be nerfed or buffed. I’m saying that certain classes simply have far too limited of ways to deal with it. No one should have to spec their entire build to be able to play the game, which is what Necros have to do if we get clipped by a single CC ability. I shouldn’t have to spend 30 trait points (which does not give me a very strong build in general) just so I can expect to be able to click my skills and actually expect them to cast.

Same can be said of a number of mechanics. There are a few things (AoE, conditions, CC, buffing) that can be mindlessly spammed too easily with almost no counterplay depending on what class you are playing. That isn’t good game design, and it isn’t fun.

By that logic then Necros and Spirit Rangers need another huge nerf, because as a Warrior I need to set up my whole build so as not to be killed by conditions. Do you want the ability to be able to counter everything in a single build? The whole point of combat like this is that you’ll never be able to beat everything, you’re going to always have a weakness, as Warrior does.

Jasher.6580:

Daecollo.9578:

I’d like it for “Underused Specs.”

Like Thief Pistols.

I remember the quickness meta quite well. It promoted one shot builds. Pistol Whip, Hundred blades etc. etc. It was absolutely terrible.

“One Shot” builds that only worked on players that didn’t know that the game had a dodge feature on launch. Warrior used all of its utilities just to land it and deal decent damage.

Bhawb.7408:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Necros have Foot In The Grave. Try making a build focused on Death Shroud. I can’t say for certain that it will be effective seeing as I don’t play the class, but I have encountered Necros with it that are very hard to focus down.

This is just an outsider looking in but lets say you go 30 into Soul Reaping and take the traits 2, 7, and 11. You’ll have very frequent access to stability, and even a minor trait that gives you Spectral Armor at 50% HP. Combine that with a stun break and you would be fairly resistant to CC. Make it a power build and you’ll probably be able to overwhelm Healing Signet.

As I said though, just a theory. I have no interest in playing Necro, I just know how their mechanics work so that I can counter them as a Warrior. Yes, you do have to drop 30 points and do Power. That’s counter play. Do you want to be able to run all conditions and be able to counter CC as well? Just because you don’t want to change your build doesn’t mean viable counters don’t exist.

You shouldn’t need to spend 30 trait points and play one very specific build to be able to play PvP. That is an option to deal with CC, it’d be nice if we could do more than be forced into a single build type because we have no other ways to handle CC.

And this shouldn’t be true for just Necros (elementalists know what its like being forced into one build), you shouldn’t have only one option to deal with something, that isn’t skill based, it isn’t in-game counterplay, it isn’t fun.

Warriors spec 30 points into 2 trees to do that CC and have condition mitigation, yet specing 30 into 1 tree that is good for power, which also counters our healing doesn’t seem too unreasonable. As for the whole having only one option thing…once again sound like things need to be buffed then, not nerfed. I HAVE to use Zerker Stance and Cleansing Ire, would I want to use something more “fun?” Sure, but then I would get destroyed by conditions and would have no one to blame but myself.

Fortus.6175:

BurrTheKing.8571:

There’s also nothing wrong with buffing different styles of play. It’s not like the current Warrior builds would use Frenzy with Hammer, you want to keep them locked down as long as possible.

My reaction time for stuff is pretty good, specially for animations I learned to fear. When I see a warrior with a hammer flying off to me, the first thing I do is dodge. If said animation is almost completely nullified then they would be broken. Remember, hammer CC is already borderline OP strong, no need to make it uncouterable, specially since a traited stun can last what seems ages….every 10 seconds.

I don’t see Hammer with Frenzy being that popular considering the whole point is to lock them down as long as possible. Also Sigil of Paralyzation is getting fixed.

Fortus.6175:

BurrTheKing.8571:

spin

I really hope you didnt mean to imply thieves and warriors are not viable….

Anyways, @ topic; I couldnt care less, personally neither of the 2 classes I majorly play uses that mechanic; ele and guard.

Only a selected few have access to it and as proven by their performance I dont think they really ever needed it to begin with, so why buff it if warriors, thieves and rangers are in a really good spot at the moment. I really wouldnt want to imagine a warrior pulling off a chain CC and nobody being able to react to it because of that speed.

Either they give all classes access to it other than through mesmer’s AoE, or keep it the same way with their own drawbacks. I can guarantee you neither warriors, thieves nor rangers (not gonna count engis an mesmers because their CDs are different) desperately need it to be viable in the current state of the game

I was not saying that neither class was viable, just that neither use their quickness skill anymore. Warrior burst was also inferior to Thief’s because of our lesser sustain especially vs. conditions. Now though, you can run Mending with Restorative Strength and soon put 10 points into Tactics for Warhorn and you’ll have pretty decent condi mitigation.

There’s also nothing wrong with buffing different styles of play. It’s not like the current Warrior builds would use Frenzy with Hammer, you want to keep them locked down as long as possible.

This change is far too complicated, a simpler solution is to just up the speed from 50% to maybe 75%. As a Warrior I can see a Thief being able to burst me down really quick in a team fight. It sucks when it happens to you but it would be a lot more skillful than most Thief builds out there currently because of the high risk involved. With the Warrior sustain buffs I could even see burst being more viable than before.

The trouble is getting the +speed % to a point where it’s fast enough to be effective but still leave time for reaction.

Also:
Frenzy: Frenzy to gain quickness. You can not gain adrenaline for the duration.

This would make Frenzy still have a meaningful downside but not as punishing as taking more damage.

Krakah.3582:

NornBearPig.9814:

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s odd, hammer Warriors were able to do basically the exact same thing in GW1 and I don’t remember there being all that much fuss over it. In GW1 I had a build that had around 4 knockdowns in a row. I had also mastered “quarter-knocking,” timing your knockdowns so that your target doesn’t even have enough time to cast a 1/4 second spell.

People didn’t complain because was so much melee hate in GW1 (blindspam, hexspam, wards, aegis…list goes on) that landing your KDs through all that wasn’t easy to do.

Team comps were also larger. The opposite happened where heavy melee teams were able to spec to counter the hex/condi pressure team builds. There was just more option for team builds in GW1, so even FOTM changes didn’t completely dominate.

You can still have the same dynamic though. Conditions are still strong and have a place on a team, Warrior has a place because they are strong against conditions, Thieves or Mesmers have a place because they are strong against Warrior.

If more power builds come into play Warriors will be forced to start bringing skills like Endure Pain, which means they’ll have to give up utilities like Bulls Charge or Sig of Stamina, which means you either have to sacrifice a knock down or a condition cleanse. Mesmers should be jumping with joy that Warrior got buffed, not only did they mitigate conditions they also have tons of counters to control skills. Power Thieves can easily overwhelm the Healing Signet and assassinate the Warrior in a team fight.

Could there be more counters? Sure, in a perfect game every class would have a build that counters another build. But until that unreachable time you can be satisfied with the fact that you can bring someone to counter a strong build. I can see a team composition being: Necro, Warrior, Mesmer/Thief, Guardian, Choice. That pretty much means every class has a place except perhaps Ele. If Ele gets buffed to be able to fill a home bunker role then it would probably see play as well. You can argue about Engi but it’s certainly not useless.

I’m going to once again say that I agree that the players are supposed to be the driving force in the meta. Some things in the past have been slightly OP, but rather ANet has learned that nerfing something into the ground isn’t as good a long term solution as buffing something else to counter it.

Warrior is a good example, people hated the dominance of Necromancer and Spirit Rangers, so they buffed Warrior to be anti-condition. Of course now people seem to think Warrior is somehow worse than the condition meta even though it already has counters.

The forum goers seem to want ANet to just nerf anything they don’t like rather than trying to find a solution themselves…even though they have said over and over that they want to give us the chance to change things. Apparently though some are lazy and just want Warriors to go back to being free kills.

I honestly think that they shouldn’t do any nerfs to Warriors besides fixing the Sigil of Paralyzation (which should be a pretty big hit to DPS). Force players to find counters and buff classes like Ele that are lacking.

Sifu.6527:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Dirame.8521:

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s odd, hammer Warriors were able to do basically the exact same thing in GW1 and I don’t remember there being all that much fuss over it. In GW1 I had a build that had around 4 knockdowns in a row. I had also mastered “quarter-knocking,” timing your knockdowns so that your target doesn’t even have enough time to cast a 1/4 second spell.

If used perfectly I could kill most light armored classes in one combo. Rather than complaining people just started bringing skills to counter me. GW1 always had problems balance wise, but it was always playable and even enjoyable. You know why this is? Counter-Play. Whenever something became the “meta” you would see people shortly after posting a build designed to counter it. I hardly see any of that going on in GW2 except for the builds Warriors are currently running to counter conditions.

About why people are complaining about Warriors when GW1 had them; No healers.

About why there are no counters; There are counters. Mantra of Resolve for mesmers is a great counter to repeated stuns because you can stun break a thousand times. Engineers can deal with it as well and they don’t have stability, Guardians are also good against these guys due to their repeated blocks and blinds, Thieves can also counter them but a well timed stun can put them in a bad place, Rangers can run Rampage as one, Eles can use focus to add another layer of defence against stuns, etc.
It’s all about whether people want to play those speccs or not.

Fact is, counterplay by players is so rare, all they want is to nerf things so that they can deal with them 1v1.

I do agree that no healers does change things a bit, but the basic concept is still there. Something is killing you? Then bring something to make that harder. What I’m seeing is “this is killing my current build, nerf it.”

You named several good counters and my whole point in my “PR” campaign for Warriors is that many of the people calling for nerfs are not interested in balance, they just Warriors to go back to being a free kill. What’s even more frustrating is that some of these people are the same ones who were always talking about how much they hated the condition meta.

Sure, lets have a honest discussion on how to balance Warrior CC pain train.

What is the standard spec for CC warrior? A variation of X/10/30/X/15(min). They have high toughness, high crit damage, low to medium crit chance, etc. Basically, they sacrifice damage for the ability to CC. Wrong. Their burst line gives them 30% crit damage and with Unsuspecting Foe 50% vs stunned target, a player can ignore the need to have high crit chance to DPS. I don’t think it is balanced when you can have your cake and eat it too…

Solution to this?

1 – Move Unsuspecting Foe to either master trait or buff it and make it a grandmaster trait.

2 – Swap Fast Hand with Building Momentum. This makes sense since Building Momentum is tied to burst skills.

So your solution is to make CC not worth running. CC alone isn’t what makes Warriors good currently. What keeps us viable is the fact that we have decent DPS, but less than a Thief, and decent sustain, but not as much as a guardian.

Yes our hammer builds have decent damage, but it’s DPS over a longer duration. A Thief can still burst down a target much faster. We have enough armor/hp/regen to stay in a team fight, but if you think that makes us as tough to kill as a Guardian you’re sorely mistaken. There’s a reason you don’t see any (successful) Banner Regen Warriors playing mid bunker.

Reduce any part of these builds too much and suddenly the class falls back into being not worth bringing on your team. Unsuspecting Foe after the Sigil of Paralyzation fix will not be all that strong. It will be a major hit to both Hammer + LB builds and Mace/Shield + GS builds. It may not be possible to land that last hit of 100b because Skull Crack will last around 3.45 seconds and the channel time is 3.5 seconds, factor in the weapon swap time and unless the guy stands there after the stun ends that last blow will rarely hit.

I have not been seeing any reasonable suggestions, only ones that would send Warrior back to how they were pre-buffs, worthless. They aren’t interested in balance or counter play, they just want to be able to run the same build they always have and not have to adapt in any way.

Dirame.8521:

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s odd, hammer Warriors were able to do basically the exact same thing in GW1 and I don’t remember there being all that much fuss over it. In GW1 I had a build that had around 4 knockdowns in a row. I had also mastered “quarter-knocking,” timing your knockdowns so that your target doesn’t even have enough time to cast a 1/4 second spell.

If used perfectly I could kill most light armored classes in one combo. Rather than complaining people just started bringing skills to counter me. GW1 always had problems balance wise, but it was always playable and even enjoyable. You know why this is? Counter-Play. Whenever something became the “meta” you would see people shortly after posting a build designed to counter it. I hardly see any of that going on in GW2 except for the builds Warriors are currently running to counter conditions.

About why people are complaining about Warriors when GW1 had them; No healers.

About why there are no counters; There are counters. Mantra of Resolve for mesmers is a great counter to repeated stuns because you can stun break a thousand times. Engineers can deal with it as well and they don’t have stability, Guardians are also good against these guys due to their repeated blocks and blinds, Thieves can also counter them but a well timed stun can put them in a bad place, Rangers can run Rampage as one, Eles can use focus to add another layer of defence against stuns, etc.
It’s all about whether people want to play those speccs or not.

Fact is, counterplay by players is so rare, all they want is to nerf things so that they can deal with them 1v1.

I do agree that no healers does change things a bit, but the basic concept is still there. Something is killing you? Then bring something to make that harder. What I’m seeing is “this is killing my current build, nerf it.”

You named several good counters and my whole point in my “PR” campaign for Warriors is that many of the people calling for nerfs are not interested in balance, they just Warriors to go back to being a free kill. What’s even more frustrating is that some of these people are the same ones who were always talking about how much they hated the condition meta.

selan.8354:

Bhawb.7408:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

wellllll……….. In GW1 there were builds that were hard counters to other builds….. GW2 follows the same suite.

Counter CC with stability or your own CC. Or simply LoS and use condi durations to kill your attacker.

If your opponent is so invested in CC they are going to be slow , high toughness, high vitality. I suggest not doing a 1v1, rather get help from a teammate. There is no shame in that since PvP in this game is “team” based.

“Stability? What is that?” – 90% of Necros. Why? Because we get one source of stability, if we are power builds that are happy with dropping 30 points into a trait line.

agreed.necros have like no stability. same with mesmers. we have 1 utility for stability and its a mantra and the stability only lasts 2 seconds.

with the cc heavy meta u get thrown around like a ping pong ball without the chance to even get up. if u get stunned and your stunbreakers are on cooldown u are in big trouble as after the stun and interrupts u have no way to block the knockbacks and knockdowns.
then u wanna get up and finally pop the stability and boom interrupted and boom next stun and then boom knockback….
once knocked back u should have a way to be immune to cc or interrupts so u can at least react and attack or at least heal. perma interrupts and knockdowns and perma fears are very very frustrating.

Necros have Foot In The Grave. Try making a build focused on Death Shroud. I can’t say for certain that it will be effective seeing as I don’t play the class, but I have encountered Necros with it that are very hard to focus down.

This is just an outsider looking in but lets say you go 30 into Soul Reaping and take the traits 2, 7, and 11. You’ll have very frequent access to stability, and even a minor trait that gives you Spectral Armor at 50% HP. Combine that with a stun break and you would be fairly resistant to CC. Make it a power build and you’ll probably be able to overwhelm Healing Signet.

As I said though, just a theory. I have no interest in playing Necro, I just know how their mechanics work so that I can counter them as a Warrior. Yes, you do have to drop 30 points and do Power. That’s counter play. Do you want to be able to run all conditions and be able to counter CC as well? Just because you don’t want to change your build doesn’t mean viable counters don’t exist.

It’s odd, hammer Warriors were able to do basically the exact same thing in GW1 and I don’t remember there being all that much fuss over it. In GW1 I had a build that had around 4 knockdowns in a row. I had also mastered “quarter-knocking,” timing your knockdowns so that your target doesn’t even have enough time to cast a 1/4 second spell.

If used perfectly I could kill most light armored classes in one combo. Rather than complaining people just started bringing skills to counter me. GW1 always had problems balance wise, but it was always playable and even enjoyable. You know why this is? Counter-Play. Whenever something became the “meta” you would see people shortly after posting a build designed to counter it. I hardly see any of that going on in GW2 except for the builds Warriors are currently running to counter conditions.

While rank is fairly worthless…it’s only worthless in its current form. In the future you may get some significant rewards for your PvP rank. Not to mention as someone else said before this is very much a cosmetically driven game, so gaining those rewards for no real effort could be a slap in the face for those who enjoy the aesthetic progression but are going about it in a legitimate fashion.

You would think there would be some way to roll back those that abused this by seeing who gained unnaturally high amounts of glory in a short amount of time.

Daecollo.9578:

sorrow.2364:

Poison doesn’t affect the regen at all.

Thread over, ignoring.

I don’t care what you say anymore, that is the most stupid and Idiotic half-brained thing i’ve ever read on the Warrior forums. Go back to the thief forums and whine there please.

I don’t know, hard to top that guy who said a Warrior killed 10 guys on his own using 3 different weapon sets in WvW.

I’m not even sure we could call it nerfs so much as they’re fixing a long standing issue. It’ll hurt us but hopefully will quell some of the complaints.

Probably not though…

I’m pretty sure this is the most merged thread of all time for GW2.

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Merged-Stun-warrior-meta/page/8#post2893673

There is already a thread here about this subject.

Sigil of Paralization is getting fixed, which will lower this builds effectiveness by 1/3, which is quite big.

For once I somewhat agree, I always thought it was odd that they never fixed the sigil.

Hammer builds will lose a lot of DPS because currently my combo is:
Earthshaker —> Fierce Blow --> Backbreaker —> Staggering Blow

…but with the Sigil fix I’ll have to go right to Backbreaker, which means it’s much less likely that Fierce Blow will crit.

Poxxia.1547:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

So … basically you use telepathy as an argument? Awesome.

And funny thing: I have access to lots of stability as mesmer? Show me the mesmer-build that counters you so hard, and I guarantee you, that I can argue for it not being OP and highly avoidable. We can all do that. Mesmer-escapes comes with a prize. Imo that is generally the charm about the class: You have to outwit your opponent.

You are extremely patronizing when you are repeatedly saying “used correctly” .. are you aware of that? Are you really aware of the quality of your own arguments? Just wondering
With all due respect I do btw have to agree with Aza a bit, but I don’t consider you to be entirely a waste of time.

It’s not telepathy, the greatest weakness of Hammer and Mace is that they are very, very predicable. It’s unlikely that a Mace user is going to use Skull Crack right after switching to it because they won’t actually get all that much damage out of it, the auto attack is very slow and the other skills are reactionary.

Mesmer doesn’t have stability, but that’s because of all the other counters they have, as mentioned in my post.

Just glancing at the Mesmer forum this caught my eye. That’s a good example of a build that would probably beat the popular Warrior builds fairly frequently. I never claimed that Mesmers were OP, just that similar to GW1 they excel at beating Warriors. That build doesn’t look perfect but the framework is all there. The Mesmer forum in general looks a lot more positive discussion than many of the other class forums. I see that many of the build threads are discussing countering Warriors.

The “when used correctly” is there because I see many players that have the right tools on their build but don’t use them correctly. They use their blinds and blocks at random times rather than waiting for the Earthshaker, or they use their stun break on Shield Bash rather than Skull Crack.

Most of the discussion on here recently just want stuns to be removed from viability. It isn’t about “balancing” but trying to get ANet to knee-jerk nerf something that after a year has finally become worth using. People seem to want to be able to run the same builds they always have rather than having to change things up.

Our builds focus heavily on pure condition builds. Healing Signet is good because many of these builds take no stun break/stability so while they are stunned we are regening. All their damage comes from conditions, and because we are removing them frequently then of course our healing will be good, they aren’t dealing that much damage. A power thief with a bit of poison can assassinate me very quickly in a team fight because their damage is all power based and the poison negates our healing during the spike.

Warrior is apparently becoming the Winston Churchill of GW2. Everyone wanted the condition meta to die out, ANet says “here take this Warrior.” The Warriors come through and smash the condition meta into the dirt, literally. Now the war on conditions is coming to a close the class that led people in war is now being forced out now that its job is done.

If we are to have our stuns/regen nerfed then something needs to be given in return otherwise it’ll become worthless again.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

Its unbelievable that you are even trying to justify this. I’m not going to even bother talking with you about it because you will only listen to things that reinforce your idea that stun locking is ok.

So basically, I’m to take that your refusal to respond as you admitting that you don’t have a strong enough argument to counter me. I’d listen to reasonable arguments, what I’ve seen thus far are comparisons across classes that mean nothing and outright falsehoods about the popular builds in use.

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

Rednik.3809:

RaynStargaze.6510:

what about 400 heal per sec with signet without any additional healstats?

seems pretty op non?

And how much tPvP warrior bunkers you see now? Regen without protection and good bunker utilities means nothing.

Thank you, people seem to think that regen suddenly means Guardian has become obsolete, which is obviously false. Even with the Shout changes that are incoming the regen and heals still won’t make Warriors as good of bunkers as Guardians. Protection, frequent blocks, and invulnerability is what make Guardian good bunkers.

Even with Healing Signet + Banner regen I wouldn’t be able to hold against a group for that long. During a Dev stream they said that they want Warrior sustain to be regen based. Right now I feel like I do less damage than a Thief but have better survival but not as much as a Guardian. Without the CC we wouldn’t be all that useful.

Try running a tanky setup like the Hammer/Longbow build but use GS instead of Hammer. Your DPS will be so low that you’re not really bringing anything useful. Then try taking HamBow and not using Unsuspecting Foe, sure you’ll have CC and be fairly tough but that CC isn’t all that useful once again because you have little to no damage. It’s the full package that makes the Warrior worthwhile, make any part of it too weak and suddenly that usefulness is gone and we’re all back to running GS/LB with Zerker gear and asking ourselves if we’re as useful as a Thief.

As it’s been stated before, there’s very little to be done about people going AFK. Even with a reporting system it’s still going to suck no matter what because you just had your time wasted.

The best possible solution would to have the game kick for inactivity. They should only be kicked for inactivity for the first few minutes of play. This is to avoid a team going “we’re losing, someone go AFK.” After said person is kicked then the option to surrender should be added that once again the remaining 4 people must agree to accept and then that team should not have it count as a loss.

Of course, there’s still the possibility of trolling no matter how good the system is. They could simply move around in spawn until the period to kick for inactivity is over then go AFK. If a kick feature were added it would also need to have a very short period to actually do a kick because there’s a chance for players to go “we’re losing kick XYZ,” guy gets kicked and they surrender. Once again though trolls will then simply play for this time period then go AFK or do nothing useful.

A easy to use report system will help with repeat offenders, but a human will still have to look into every case because once again groups of trolls can go around reporting somebody and make it seem like they are always going AFK even if they’re not.

Bottom line is if someone is hell bent on ruining a game for you chances are they’ll find a way to do it, and if you don’t add some stipulations there’s a chance for abuse in order to avoid losses.

LegendaryLukeee.1462:

A problem that i usually find with devs is that they never allow credibility in their posts. Example would be is that when they say things like " the pvp population has increased", increased by how much, 50%, 1% 0.000001%. By all accounts you can read this as a positive increase to most, but if its at a rate 0.0000001%, its not looking good. They never supply factual and creditable numbers with their claims.

As well im assuming they only started “counting” the pvp population when team leader boards first came out in what feb? Where pvp population was more than likely at the most dying state. Instead of starting say the first 3 months where all the pvp teams still competed. They never tell you the parameters of their measurements in their studies.

Its just truly frustrating as a player that has committed so much into this game, seeing the potential in this game mode, and see the developers drive it an opposite direction.

The amount doesn’t really matter though in this case, it just proves this comic wrong because they aren’t at their lowest levels.

Phaeton.9582:

They are specifically nerfing the stun duration on both mace and hammer next patch.

As mentioned much of the dps occurs during the stun.

They’re fixing the Sigil of Paralyzation, big difference.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BurrTheKing.8571:

…I’m pretty sure there was a post by a dev saying that PvP population is at the highest it has ever been.

I’ll try and find the post but that’s probably going to be difficult. I just remember thinking that it was interesting when I read it.

They count hotjoins though. Hotjoins are still fun but the ladders are really on an all time low.

PvP is PvP, if you look at CS:GO most people only really play casual but that doesn’t mean the game is dead.

Dagins.5163:

BurrTheKing.8571:

These builds do have tradeoffs and weaknesses, but I have only seen a few clever people actually bothering to exploit them.

I beg to have such tradeoffs and weaknesses on my thief like warriors have.
Let’s compare warrior’s and thief’s traits.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsuspecting_Foe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Killer
Warrior has adept trait, giving them 50% extra critical strike change to stunned foes. Their stuns are long and easy accessible, not to mention allies may apply them aswell.
Thieves have grandmaster trait, which also gives extra 50% crit chance (since you already sit at 50% or even above) on stealth attack. But there are two interesting things. First of all, it has any use only on dagger main hand (backstab). Sword, pistol and shortbow (doesn’t even have access to stealth) are all together out. Second, since you use only backstab for this, you need to position yourself behind them, and often it’s just not possible. They continue beating on you with auto-attack when you are trying to achieve it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Shots
Both master traits. Comparing them doesn’t require any comments. By the way, even if I used shortbow as my primary weapon, I would never bother picking this trait. Seriously, 5% more damage on a hybrid weapon? It is like 2-3% total damage increase, or like 0.1% if you play condi – as many people who use it as primary weapon do.

But I still think, that buffs to warriors were a good thing. However, there a plenty of trash traits on other classes, entirely blocking them access to inventing other builds. These above were just simple examples.

You cannot compare one class to another like this, I think you’ve been told this multiple times. You are totally ignoring other factors of the class’s. You can look at two similar skills but they have to be taken into context with the class as a whole, not just compare them directly. And as for Merciless Hammer, it may be a Master trait but it might as well be Grandmaster because it’s unlikely that you will find a Hammer Warrior not using Cleansing Ire as well. You also can’t skip the trait, a 30 second CD Backbreaker? No thanks.

Sound to me like things need to be buffed up, rather than nerfing a class that the Devs seem to feel is in a good spot. Nerfs in general should be avoided unless something is game breaking. It makes a lot more sense to add counters to something that’s strong then to nerf it and risk making it worthless.

Poxxia.1547:

@Burr: I really wish I could burst like a warrior with the defense needed to survive both conditions and burst.

And just for the record, I play a balanced build, I don’t loose to warriors 1vs1 but I can’t kill a good one either. The prize I pay is to heavily kitten my group-support and dmg overall. Warriors have to do no such thing; their spamable stuns are quite enough support and they have UF along with stuff like DotE (should they opt for that).

What you are saying (that I agree with, for once) is that Warriors drive the meta; you are OK with the direction, I am not. I am saying: Try to look at things from the other side.
I tried playing a warrior both before and after the nerf; while it will never be something I enjoy nor be very good at, I find it has lost all finesse and timing now.

The problem with looking at it from the other side is that many people on that side are being totally unreasonable with their demands. They basically want to nerf everything from Cleansing ire, Healing Signet, Unsuspecting Foe, Hammer, Mace, and God knows what else. Nerfing Healing Signet in particular will probably just end up with it being once again made into a worthless heal that nobody takes.

People are also talking about Hammer as if it’s the easiest thing to just put it on and suddenly everyone will just die to you. Hammer on Warrior is probably one of the more difficult weapons in the game to use. Miss a Backbreaker and that’s 25 seconds (because you’ll be traited, requiring a 30 point investment in Defense because you want Cleansing Ire as well) until you can try again, and it’s highly telegraphed just like Earthshaker.

Another common issue is that people keep listing off things that these builds, Hammer/LB in particular, can do and they then go and list things that would require way more trait points than what they have access to. An example, someone saying that they can use Runes of Lyssa while stacking large amounts of Might. You can only keep those might stacks up with Runes of Hoelbrak because of the the 20% longer duration. With Lyssa the might you stack doesn’t stick around that long.

I tried to make sure I was very familiar with both the Necro and Spirit builds before I commented on them, it also helped me build the Skullcracker that I posted and got some 13k views or something like that. Many of us saw that ANet wanted Warrior to change the meta via buffing a weaker class rather than nerfing the current meta. Any significant nerfs (which most seem to be advocating) to CC or our sustain will probably leave the class out in the cold once again.

…I’m pretty sure there was a post by a dev saying that PvP population is at the highest it has ever been.

I’ll try and find the post but that’s probably going to be difficult. I just remember thinking that it was interesting when I read it.

EDIT: I believe Cosine is right and it was a SotG that it was brought up.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

People asked for new builds. they begged for them. Then they emerged in necro, warrior professions are now everyone wants it reverted back.

I seem to be the only one of few that don’t seem to have issue with stunning warriors. When the flavour of the month appeared I went and got my free superior runes of melandru. I switched from power to condition and bought a long a block. After that the cheese was easily. They have to be close to stun, I keep ground targeting on auto, so if I don’t want it to cast at my feet I have to have my mouse position away from me..slowly and surely they walked into every ranger trap, every thief black power, every engi elite turrets and just about all necro marks and wells. There stuns don’t last long enough for them to chain without me getting an evade out.

The issue is too many people have their 2-3 Go To builds that they are comfortable with and know what counters work in bad situations and something relatively new has emerged and they keep doing what they’ve always done and keep getting the same result.

I mean no offense, but maybe time to change your builds, rather than seek to have others change their’s.

Pretty much agree, this is a totally different situation than Necromancers and Spirit Rangers. Those builds had very few counters, but rather than nerfing them to the point of being worthless they buffed Warriors and made then a Condition Crusher. Obviously I can’t list exact builds for every class but I do know that every class has plenty of Control skills. The current Warrior builds were designed to counter the current meta and are now becoming the meta. The initial surge though will probably even out. People who get beat by one of these builds make a Warrior and try them out, and many will probably decide to go back to their original class.

Time to stop relaying on your old builds, the meta has shifted without any major nerfs, which is actually pretty impressive. Now it’s time to go here and start coming up with builds that are highly resistant to CC. You may not even have to make a totally new build, adding a utility with a stun breaker and Stability and throwing on Runes of Melandru will already make you much harder to take down.

Try to actually beat it instead of using the same build you have for once. Also, stop thinking of things in terms of 1v1, the game isn’t balanced in that way. Still finding it very amusing that now that the condition meta is drying up these forums instantly try to get the thing replacing it nerfed. Guess what, if stun Warriors go, there’s a good chance we will end up back in a condition meta.

These builds do have tradeoffs and weaknesses, but I have only seen a few clever people actually bothering to exploit them.

kitten s.7421:

Scoobaniec.9561:

I don’t know whats so great in hammer+lb.. Im eating them alive with hammer+mace/shield..

More aoe better condi cleanse better damage due to might stacks has a ranged option its more tpvp orientated.

At the cost of mobility and the ability to quickly disengage in team fights.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah! Level 95 Warrior here!

15/10/30/0/30 For the win!

I can’t wait till they make shouts heal, then I can level to 125!

15/10/30/30/30! Pwn some newbs!

What about 20/0/20/0/30?
Or 20/10/20/0/20 if you can survive with half a second more recharge on your burst skills.

20/0/20/0/30

This would mean no Unsuspecting Foe or Forceful GS.

20/10/20/0/20

Not only means a longer CD on burst but also slower to gain AND less damage.

Your post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how Warrior works. Missing 1 stun means 8 seconds of dealing very little DPS not to mention greatly reducing the efficiency of your Healing Signet. The stuns/lock downs are a big part of what makes the heal worthwhile because while you aren’t hitting we’re healing.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Nevermind, I can’t duel EU players. So I can’t prove you wrong. Lol.

Please, any NA player take my place and duel him. You don’t need to be skilled as a Warrior, neither you need to know the profession or the traits. You just need to spam stuns on cooldown.

I’ll pass the build to anyone willing to take over.

Your post oozes of ignorance. Spamming stuns on CD is a great way to miss them.

I’m pretty sure Warrior is one of the few classes that ANet is actually happy with. I would expect them to use is as a model for other classes. While we only see a handful used currently, Warrior actually has waaaaaay more viable sills than most classes. That number will soon increase with the Shouts Buff.

Come up with lists of how you want weaker classes like Ele to be brought up, rather than trying to knock other classes down. Also, claiming Mesmers have trouble against Warriors? If it’s a CC Warrior is should be a joke for a Mesmer. Even if said Warrior has a longbow proper placement of your clones should allow you to win. A bleed stack Warrior could probably take a Mes out fairly easy but those builds are also really lacking as far as conditions go when compared to say a Necromancer.

I find it funny that players are calling Warrior easy to play when I see many, many that are just terrible. Constantly missing their important skills and mismanaging their utilities. I also keep seeing guys that use Vengeance then run away as if they’re an Ele.

Angriff’s build would be pretty good if he replaced Cleasing Ire with Last Stand. Basically it’s good ol’ Skullcracker with shouts. Less DPS but better team support. I’d go one step further and add in a Warhorn.

Here’s one I’m working on…

This would probably be pretty good in PvE/WvW as well. Your crit chance would still be pretty good because of 100% Fury, 49% with a sword and with the minor Critical Burst Trait even Combustive Shot will crit fairly frequently as well. Force them to stand in the flames and if they don’t you’ll regen and heal. You can also combo with Savage Leap and Call to Arms so squeeze out some more might and bonus DPS from burning.

You’ll also be frequently reducing their damage with Weakness in addition to having many dodges with both Sigils of Energy and Vigor. I really enjoy making builds that find ways to make up for the weaknesses of the gear. I also feel like it’s got a very commander like feeling to it which is always cool.

Note that the surge in Warriors is similar to the surge of Necros. The word has gotten out that they’re good so now everyone and their brother want to try them out. The difference is that they are nowhere near as broken as Necro pre-nerf was. If people are smart they’ll start building to exploit Warrior’s weaknesses. Even when Warriors were terrible you saw a good number of them in hotjoin…paid off in the end.

I bet we’ll see the numbers reduce a bit because there are a lot of bad Warriors, they’ll probably end up going back to what they know.

kitten s.7421:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Poxxia.1547:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.

While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.

They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?

Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.

I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.

Yes stuns are a joke against a mesmer. But you land your longbow 5 and predict bursts you will win.

We’re not talking 1v1 mind you. In a team fight, I as a Warrior would be focusing the condition guys while the Thief or Mesmer focuses me. Warriors will maybe have to have somebody watching their back as well. I really think buffing Mesmers in any significant manor isn’t necessary.

They may need a bit more active condition removal but even then that may make Warrior obsolete considering that they’re pretty darn strong it’s just that conditions eat them up. Now that things are changing a bit that may not be such big issue.

Poxxia.1547:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.

While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.

They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?

Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.

I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.

Luvboard.3567:

P.S. great title it was perfect

Too bad it got ignored :P

I’ve been working on this a lot frequently for PvP and it’s actually kind of annoying. The 30 points in Tactics is a given, but I feel if you’re running 3 shouts you need at least 20 in defense for Last Stand because having no stability doesn’t seem like a grand idea. A 20 second CD Shake it Off isn’t bad but if you’re being heavily CC’d it won’t save you.

So now you only have 20 points left to spend. If you want hammer then going 30 into makes sense but this is where things get tricky. 30 in Defense and Tactics means no Fast Hands. For me this is a big problem, as FH to me is almost a requirement. So far the best I have is this. Empowered Allies = Quick Breathing

I’m not sure healing shouts support is going to be super viable in PvP. In WvW sure, but we’ll have to wait and see for PvP. The Warhorn trait move will be nice for DPS builds though.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BurrTheKing.8571:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Pretty sure Warriors can bunker better than Guards. Definitely can’t support like a guard, but definitely a better bunker imo.

No. What makes Guardian’s good bunkers is their access to invulnerability and block in addition to boons like protection. Regen alone isn’t enough to hold out against multiple fores for a long duration. This is especially true when dealing with a lot of focused damage.

Yes. What makes Warriors good bunkers is their access to shield and passive healing and their innate high vitality along with their stances that give them access to all kind of invulnerability (aka receiving no condis or dmg). If necessary they can grab regen with banners and make their passive healing even more potent. By the time a team of 3 can focus fire you down on a warrior, you’ve probably wrecked someone on the opposing team with stuns and or decent sustain. This is especially true when you face good warriors and know anything about the guard’s downfalls.

What you just described is VERY weak to high pressure. Shield has a brief block on a fairly long CD. Endure pain is good for spikes but only lasts a few seconds on a high cooldown. Zerker Stance has the same problem with having a long cooldown. Banner Regen isn’t that good outside of 1v1’s because as I said no amount of regen and HP is going to last against a coordinated attack. Once those skills you described are gone (not to mention taking Endure, Zerker, and Banner means you’ll either have no stability or you’ll have a trait with a 90-sec CD) you’re not going to last.

I have yet to see a Warrior do the bunker role as well as a Guardian.

Blackjack.5621:

as glass canon fight off point, you really shine when you can outnumber a fight, so you get a quick kill -> move somewhere else -> keep outnumbering.

Without this kind of counterpressure you will have a hard time vs good teams since you can´t really sit afk on a point while the enemies have 5 people in the teamfight. Means you take a risk of leaving closepoint free and you might get freecapped, in order to get your node back you need raw dps and not sustain.
You also don´t really allow them to push cause otherwise you destroy them in the teamfight quickly

So glasscanons have their place in the current meta

I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Pretty sure Warriors can bunker better than Guards. Definitely can’t support like a guard, but definitely a better bunker imo.

No. What makes Guardian’s good bunkers is their access to invulnerability and block in addition to boons like protection. Regen alone isn’t enough to hold out against multiple fores for a long duration. This is especially true when dealing with a lot of focused damage.

We have a new thread here please let this one die.

Corian.4068:

After the Unsuspecting Foe nerf (we can all see it coming, right? it’s definitely coming) bunkers should be able to defend against the FotM stun warriors quite handily, and it’ll kind of settle there, where conditions counter bunkers counter warriors counter conditions.

Why is the newest item on the chopping block Unsuspecting Foe (UF)? Warrior is already walking a precarious path as it is. Do you think Warriors would be worthwhile on stuns alone? Without UF the DPS of any stun based build using Soldier gear is laughable. You have less survivability than a Guardian from the start and NOW all you are bringing is a few stuns. Do you really think people would bother bringing Warriors running builds like this if stuns were the ONLY thing they brought?

Builds like this would become fairly worthless if any of its components were to be nerfed too harshly. I accidentally clicked the wrong trait and took Furious Reaction instead of UF and it was a total nightmare. I was smacking guys around and hitting them like a wet noodle. Sure, it set them up to be killed by my teammates but that still wasn’t all that useful.

Warriors are now the middle ground between Guardian and Thief. I can’t hold off multiple foes, and my DPS is worse than a Thieves. It’s the combination of being fairly, tough, fairly damaging, and having stuns is what makes Warriors worthwhile now. Any hit to a part of this balancing act could have the possibility to send Warriors back to being the butt of every PvP joke. Mesmers should want Warriors to stay where they are because the longer they’re around the less conditions users we’ll see and as a result a counter for a Warrior on your team would look rather nice.