Guild Wars 2

This is a concept that has been done occasionally in the past, but the changes to Rapturing Smash have made the concept much more viable since it no longer hits like a wet noodle. There’s two versions to this gimmick: one fairly viable general use one, and another that will totally crush some builds and be completely useless against others.

The More Viable Version

The Completely Gimmicky Version

Alternate Super Gimmick

Not having Discipline is of course the biggest weakness of this build. In the more viable version, the Rune of the Lynx helps with the speed problem some. I tend to stick to Mace/Shield until I can use Berserk. Your mobility issues are less severe when you have the leap on Hammer consistently. Bull’s Charge also seems to finally be fairly consistent. This build is even funnier in WvW because of the existence of Perplexity runes.

In a big fight, the super gimmicky version is pretty funny. Having Wild Blow instead of Bull’s Charge can also be highly amusing and is also a good setup for Rapturing Smash.

daw.4923:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m pretty sure Necro is worse off…so there’s that.

ye necro is complete garbage in pvp,that 30 stack of bleed in 2 sec and 3x fear in row is absolutly useless. 20k hp shroud is useless too and aa to corupt any boon is mega useless and they shoud make you imortall in shroud and pulse 50 bleeds to close enemies.

Conveniently forgetting their extreme weakness to CC, which we’re good at.

Also, it’s a joke, relax.

I’m pretty sure Necro is worse off…so there’s that.

Ragnarox.9601:

BurrTheKing.8571:

No, Guardians are not designed around having faster movement speed, no class is. Fun fact, Guardians have 3 baseline traits atm.

All classes have 25% movement traits except guardian and rev/herald which has perma swiftness.

Consecrated Ground (Consecration skills use ground targeting).
Elite duration increase
Improved Spirit weapon duration

Spirit weapons are OP.
Consecrations are OP.
/sarcasmoff
Elite duration…. thats 1 good baseline trait.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m not saying that Guardian doesn’t have problems, just that any traits made baseline should be in the name of opening up a ton of build variety. A warrior choosing to not run Discipline loses their movement speed buff, why should ANY class get that speed for free?

I could see them reducing the CD of Death Shroud by default, but not giving them a free speed boost. Let’s not forget that almost all of the speed boosting traits are situational as well.

Guardian: Traveler runes since 2012. Build variety = 0.

Then Guardians need a movement speed trait added in the game and Rev speed needs to be more situational, not to just get it for free. Also, I wasn’t saying that they had OP baseline traits, I just found out that it was a thing and found it interesting.

Guardian’s aren’t alone with not having any build variety, that’s been like every class for ages. Try making a viable Warrior build not using Defense-Discipline-Berserker. This closest I can think is going Defense-Power-Berserker and focusing on condi. Even then, you have a really good burst of condi and then find yourself suffering because you’re just auto attacking waiting for your swap.

Right, I have no interest in making Warrior better than other classes. In fact, I left once I felt it was too strong and it was no longer interesting. I also left because there was 0 creativity to be had.

Ragnarox.9601:

as a guardian I want 25% movement trait baseline too.

No, Guardians are not designed around having faster movement speed, no class is. Fun fact, Guardians have 3 baseline traits atm.

I’m not saying that Guardian doesn’t have problems, just that any traits made baseline should be in the name of opening up a ton of build variety. A warrior choosing to not run Discipline loses their movement speed buff, why should ANY class get that speed for free?

I could see them reducing the CD of Death Shroud by default, but not giving them a free speed boost. Let’s not forget that almost all of the speed boosting traits are situational as well.

Ramoth.9064:

Everyone wants kitten baseline. Baseline fast hands, baseline preparedness. As a necro give me baseline speed of shadows.

Well, if they gave every class something baseline it might be fine, but some classes don’t really need it. Seems like it’s better to have the trait not be required at all rather than designing the whole class around 1 trait.

Every time I try to theory craft a build I always run into the wall that is the Discipline line. Without the use of Fast Hands, Warrior builds just don’t function all that well. I’ve never been able to come up with a solution to this problem besides making Fast Hands baseline. That being said, I don’t think this will ever happen.

As a result of this, I’ve thought of another potential solution. I’ve had this in the back of my mind for a long time but never wanted to entertain the idea because it hurts the flavor of the class. If Fast Hands was removed from the game and replaced with a different trait and all weapon skills had reworked cooldowns to compensate, it would probably offer us way more build options than we currently have.

Combine this change with a patch that moves several underused traits around (cough Axe Mastery cough) and it could really open up some options, especially in PvP. Discipline will still be a really, really strong trait line because of Warrior’s Sprint (although this can be replaced by runes), Brawler’s Recovery, and Burst Mastery. This will however hopefully open up the use of Power, Arms, and Tactics.

I would still like to see weapon specific and “give x% of x stat to y stat” traits be removed with something more interesting someday, but right now I would come back to PvP if I knew I could at least run a halfway viable build that wasn’t Defense-Discipline-Berserker. Removing FH will no doubt kill some of the flavor that Warrior has, but I can’t think of any fix to that situation that isn’t either this or making it baseline.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

It is the consequence of choices and a PvP scene cannot function without some form of opportunity lost. What you’re suggesting is a power creep slippery slope and you need to ask yourself this question:

Does this address a mechanical flaw or is it to make a class competitive (even if the class is not competitive at all)?

Two stuff are distinct despite they’re related to each other, even if every effective build requires that trait. If we made something baseline people will start saying without taking another/new traits or traitline you won’t be competitive. Thus we’re back to square one. In warrior’s case, this may as well be adrenal health ever since the rework.

It is power creep, but in theory if every class gets one baseline trait then it should roughly even out. Is it really healthy for the game to just always have a trait line that every build uses because the class is weak without it.

I wouldn’t be opposed to the other suggestion that every class gets the Spec that deals with their class mechanic like Discipline or Arcane turned into an Elite Spec and then balancing around that, the problem is some classes will be screwed over by that.

Choppy.4183:

Turk.5460:

It might be because this exists. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Warrior

8 second Weapon Swap is not as great as 5 seconds, but definitely better than 10s. And this rune is already under-used, so its possible that Anet could buff the set bonus in the future to match Fast Hands.

Yeah, it would need a serious buff to offset the opportunity cost of taking that rune set. Then again, if they buff that set to 5s swap, then it also opens it to classes who haven’t been balanced to 5s swaps like warrior has.

It would also mean that if you had both Warrior would have no weapon swap CD.

revox.8273:

actually in pvp/wvw many ppl dont even run strength line at all. its all about defense discipline and berserker combo

Which is beyond annoying. Drop Defense and you’re squishy as hell, drop Discipline and you lose Fast Hands and Warrior’s Sprint. I could live without WS, but no fast hands makes War feel like a weak DH or Rev.

Entenkommando.5208:

I’m not a Warrior main by any means, but wouldn’t you still run discipline because of all the weapon swap benefits it gives? I can’t really imagine these traits not being a standard choice even if they made it baseline.
I mean you get adrenaline, might, conremove and faster recharge on your burst skills from this trait line. How would any Warrior want to miss that?

It would open the doors to a couple of other builds, especially in PvP. I really enjoy gimmick builds, but few gimmicks are even remotely viable because they rely on dropping Discipline for more interesting combinations. The problem is, Warrior weapon skills don’t really flow that well when you lack that 5 second weapon swap. A build like this could be really fun but doesn’t flow that well because you can’t chain the immob from Leg Specialist into Bow skills constantly, not to mention the fact that you’ll just end up auto attacking a lot.

OriOri.8724:

Poor balance of thief’s mechanic is indeed an issue, but you guys can use your mechanic even without taking trickery. Having that 3 extra initiative baseline would really help thieves out a lot, and I could support that. But fast hands is not at all mandatory to play warrior. Its just necessary to play warrior how OP wants to play it

Find me one viable PvP build that doesn’t use Fast Hands. Also, Discipline would still be good due to Warrior’s Sprint. Of course, the problem with that trait is that the other choices are pretty garbage. There’s also Burst Mastery, Brawler’s Recovery, and DotE, so it’s not like Discipline wouldn’t still be getting taken in 9/10 builds. All merging Fast Hands with the base class would do is open a couple of other build options with Arm, Strength, and Tactics. Defense and Berserker are too good to pass up most of the time unless you want a glass cannon build. It’s not as big of a issue in organized PvE, the other lines see use there, especially Tactics. That being said, Wars focus on support in PvE would probably also be helped with the baseline quick swap. At the very least it would make the rotation more interesting.

Thieves would be able to have a ton of variety a baseline Preparedness because the devs clearly designed the class around the idea that . I just don’t understand how you dob’t see that the same applies to Warriors. It’s clear they designed the class around the idea that Fast Hands exists.

Some classes don’t have a must-have trait, but several do. In many cases, the line that those traits are in would still be good regardless, it would just allow you a bit of build variety without totally gimping your build.

OriOri.8724:

Fast hands is a perfect example of a trait that should never be made baseline, because it doesn’t actually fix any design problems with warrior.

I would say that it is a very major design flaw. The whole class is designed around having the ability to have 5 second weapon swaps. Try playing a PvP Warrior without it, the flow of the class feels wrong. In addition, you’re just objectively weaker. I can’t think of any prevalent Warrior build that didn’t use it.

Your argument about Mesmer also doesn’t hold up. Warrior doesn’t get to use their class mechanic without hitting something a bunch or using a skill that doesn’t come by default. You CAN use a Warrior without Fast hands, but it would have been like not having IP for Mes, it felt wrong.

It seems like they want you to pop the turrets, leave them up for the duration of the overcharge, then pick them up or detonate after a few extra attacks. I like the idea of encouraging more active gameplay personally. It’s not that fun to just place and forget, and you have way more options by maintaining your toolbelt skills. The Overcharge needs to be reliably instant though, with no delays.

I also just like it cause it’s a buff to Static Discharge builds.

I would also say that the way conditions are applied could be looked into as well. I view conditions as being a damage type that is designed to wear away at the enemy, not just stacking a ton at once and burning the target down…with the exception burning of course. There could be an interesting balance where condition removal is less common or powerful – but in return the conditions last longer but do slower initial damage. It would force you to wait to cleanse until you had reached a certain point to get maximum value.

It would be a hard balance to achieve, but it would make conditions feel much more unique to power. Things would have to be rebalanced in PvE…maybe upping the maximum number of stacks more or having some damaging conditions affect break bars a little.

One of my favorite parts of RPGs is finding new and crazy builds. Right now, GW2 has very little capacity for this. Sure, the gimmick combos and synergies are there, but it’s very rare that you are able to effectively make a build utilizing these combos. Often times, buildcraft boils down to simply taking the objectively best traits. What makes things even more difficult is that most every class has a trait or two that are “must-have.”

One example that I am very familiar with is “Fast Hands” on Warrior. I would love to drop the Discipline line to get some more interesting combos in PvP (and open world PvE), but a Warrior without 5 second weapon swaps just screws with the whole flow of the class and dramatically screws with the class’s effectiveness.

ANet did this once already with Illusionary Persona on Mesmer and I feel that every class probably has at least one trait like this. That being said, there’s still going to be a problem where some traits are so good the other two in that tier get totally ignored because they can’t compete. It would be nice to see more traits have synergy with traits in other lines more frequently. Right now, many lines are self contained and all have synergy in that line only. One notable exception is the Berserker line trait Eternal Champion and Rousing Resilience. You can even add Savage Instinct into the mix, but then you would be missing out on Smash Brawler, which is just way more useful.

While I’m normally not in favor of power creep, I am far more in favor of there being more variety in this game. So long as every class gets a few traits made baseline, I feel that we can start to see more build diversity. Sure, they might not be meta level, but so long as they are viable I would be satisfied.

It has been quite a few months since I’ve bothered with GW2 PvP, only ever logged in for Living World stuff. I’ve used the vanilla GS/Mace then the Berserker version post HoT and it’s always been a setup that was pretty good but never saw widespread use. I looked at Metabattle to see what’s changed since I’ve been away (not much overall), then saw that almost the exact same build I used all the time is now right at the top. The only difference is a few sigil/rune changes and 1 trait. Those differences were generally because I’m a build hipster and often try to find weird little interactions with traits.

Did something major change in the meta to make this build more powerful? Or are players realizing how good the combination of constant light CC with Sigil of Might is? The build was always good against Dragon Hunters, Chronos, and Revs in my experience so I imagine that might have something to do with it.

Fluffball.8307:

Funny how the whole cheating scandal has changed people’s answers. This question has been asked before and the guys that were cheating in the leaderboard were always brought up.

Been away for a while, what happened?

Guild Wars 2 PvP has had the same problem for years now, specific BUILDS being OP, not classes. You can have a team of all one class and they can each be fulfilling a different role. For example you could have: Power DPS Warrior, Condi Warrior, Shout Heals Warrior, CC Focused Warrior, and some weird hybrid Warrior. Now, these builds might not be the best at doing that specific role, but that doesn’t mean players shouldn’t be allowed to run them.

The root of the issue is that every class right now has one build that simply outclasses all other options. Certain builds are Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-all, there’s a complete lack of actual specialization. Builds with good damage should not also have great sustain. There’s needs to be more tradeoffs if there’s ever going to be a semblance of balance. There will always be a meta, but there needs to be more viable builds that are at least playable and maybe even counter the meta.

Now, I’m no game dev, but I feel that there’s only one way to solve this problem. *We need another Specialization patch-sized class rework. I think we’ve all seen that every change to PvP so far have just been treating the symptoms and not the disease. I think the specialization system is a good idea, but every tree is so self contained that we ended up with MASSIVE powercreep across all classes. In GW2’s case, I think less is more. Too many traits have multiple powerful effects. At launch, you had much less power overall because most traits did ONE thing. The old system had its own problems as well, but I for one preferred the slower pace the stressed the importance of landing your key skills. The challenge behind this redesign is keeping it simple enough to be feasible, we’re not replacing the Specialization system, but still bring dedicated roles back. This won’t be by any means easy, but if you design it around the idea of “you need these traits to be the most effective at this role” it would be easier to balance down the line.

My suggested solution would be this: have each Specialization be focused on a specific role, but have traits that dramatically effect its effectiveness in other Specializations. Now, this will slightly reduce player creativity, but can you really say we have any with the current system either? We have a ton of traits that never see any use. If those traits can be replaced with viable options we could have players fulfilling a specific role, with little twists here and there. It would also be

There are two other keys changes I think would also need to happen. The first is that weapon skills should be done away with, being forced to take a spec just to make your weapon better isn’t fun. Those traits could be made to be more general. For example, Warrior’s Forceful Greatsword could have make landing a critical give might no matter what weapon, but with a new ICD to compensate. The second change would be to make “must have” traits become baseline like we saw with Mesmer. If a trait is almost universally picked, then you’re better off just making it a part of the class. Now, this is a kind of power creep, but if the power of other traits gets reduced that should more than make up for it. On a side not, this would open up the possibility down the line of making a matchmaking system that can detect what kind of build you have and team you up accordingly.

Class stacking is not the problem! Everything comes down to the builds themselves and the fact that right now there are builds with no major weaknesses. This removes class diversity even though at launch it’s clear the idea was that any class can fulfill a role, but in a slightly different way. I want that kind of gameplay, where timing and skill is more important than memorizing a skill rotation.

So, speaking of Warriors…

I haven’t played PvP in a while, but in Season 1-2 the class I was worried about the least was DH because Warrior has a nifty utility skill – Signet of Might.

I would run builds like this or even this and they would just make DH (at at the time more importantly, Eles) explode.

Now, I know they nerfed Gun Flame a bit, but a high damage, unbloackable, interrupt should still be pretty strong against DH right? Even more so now because there’s no more daze on traps and Berserker’s Stance laughs at the slow. If nothing else it should force all of the DH’s CDs which is a win in itself.

Maybe I’m missing something though?

kdaddy.5431:

NotASmurf.1725:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

if so can i have all ur gold plz!

This is the least original, least contructive, least funny, most cliché response ever. Seriously, what reaction do you actually expect us to give? It doesn’t even count as a joke and contributes nothing to a thread, and ending it with an exclamation mark is like laughing at your own “joke”.

I hope he gets a in game mail of like 500g from that person and he screen shots it just for you

I still play PvE so that ain’t happenin’.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

beatthedown.2651:

Or whats up with Druid lately? Nerfing their healing is justified, but will they ever realise that having pets as a damage source is just a really bad idea? Why would you ever pick up a zerk Druid while your pet does the same damage with Magi?

I realize this comes as a shock after years of their being completely ignorable, but ranger pets are, in fact, supposed to be able to hurt you. Crazy, I know.

(and before you bark and whine about removing pets’ independent stats, look up what the stats on the bristleback and smokescale actually are, and consider whether you want to open the can of worms you think you do).

I would argue that having pets being a significant source of damage is just a poor design choice. Either you kitten the Ranger’s because of the pets, or you have the current situation of them being able to focus on sustain while still having decent damage due to pets.

It would have been much wiser to have pets be purely for utility. It would make it less devastating when a pet gets taken down and it would just make balancing the class easier overall. With how pets currently are they’re either too weak or too strong no matter what you do.

Tying the pets to mob AI causes a ton of issues too. If they were more of an extension of the player rather than a psudo-independent mob they would hopefully be more reliable. For example, your pet Wolf would stand right next to you until you give it an attack order, then when you give it it jumps right at your target, uses its attack, then comes back to you. One of the attacks could just be a simple lunge attack on a shorter CD so that it still feels like they are consistently attacking, but it’s more controllable, reliable, and predictable on both sides of the fight.

Heck, if you wanted to take this further, just remove health from pets entirely and just make them an extension of the player. That way you can make the damage they do tied to the player’s stats and you can be as glassy or as tanky as you want, but not be able to have it all in one build.

It’s not about the CLASS, it’s all about the BUILD. There was a time where you could run an all Warrior team with all different build and be semi-viable because of how many different roles the class could fill. You can have one class running a damage build, and another player on the same class being support. Limiting team comps based on class just doesn’t make sense.

For those of you who want a less long winded synopsis of what I think would make PvP better:

1: Simplified traits with one primary effect. Any secondary effect should be weak and designed to have synergy with another trait.

2: Do away with weapon-based traits. Adjust weapon Cool Downs to compensate. Replace the old traits with a more generalized version of the trait. For example, Forceful Greatsword could be changed to give might on crit with every weapon, but with a short ICD. Now, if you don’t want to take Strength you don’t feel like your GS is inferior because of it.

3: Try to design traits in such a way that one class can’t be good at everything, for example the old D/D Ele. It’s OK for builds to have major weaknesses, it is a team game after all. I see people complaining that Reaper is only good if supported, but imo that’s a GOOD thing. Now, I know that might make Solo Qing hard, but maybe someday the matchmaker can start grouping people up by looking at their traits and assigning them a role based on that so that it can try to create a balanced team comp?

4: Change skill CDs so that player’s aren’t just constantly “spamming” (for lack of a better word) so that there is more emphasis on timing like on launch. Before anyone says anything, I’m away launch balance was far from perfect, the I preferred the speed of combat compared o now.

5: I’ve said this a million times but I think the design of Conquest in general could do with borrowing some ideas from Conquest in the Battlefield series. This means that the side with the most players on it capture the point. If enemies are contesting the point, even if you have more players the captures are very slow. This would mean team fights are still important, but one tanky player can’t keep a point from flipping for an extended period of time. This would also allow for the capture points to be a bit longer, maybe kitten some terrain decoration so that the points are more than just flat circles.

Obviously, I don’t really see any of these things happening, but maybe a Dev will read this, because I know a good number of players that have left PvP for similar reasons to go back to games like LoL, Dota, or Battlerite. I WANT to come back, but the current meta keeps me from doing anything more than jumping into a dueling server to run a fun gimmick build or a unranked server with silly settings

I’m going to kick this post off by admitting that I am fully away that I was never in any way important in the GW2 PvP scene. Also, I tend to ramble on. What I was however – was someone that was fairly active on these forums. This was because despite all of the flaws the basic mechanics of the game were super fun and unlike anything else I had played. There are plenty of character action games, but none with this level of variety and customization in a 3rd person perspective.

After putting up with parts of the game that bugged me, mostly balance, I eventually just stopped playing PvP altogether. These day, I only sign on to do solo PvE content. THe main reason I ended up leaving was simple, there was so much power creep and bloat that the gameplay became a huge mess.

Go look at PvP from the launch of the game and compare it to now. The pacing is almost absurdly fast now. This is mostly due to the design of the Elite Specializations. Rather than being simply a new playstyle, many were just flat out upgrades. Berserker feels like Warrior+, Chronomancer adds a new ability, Dragon Hunter gets WAAAAY better virtues, etc. The only Elite Spec that felt truly like a different playstyle to me was Reaper. Instead of carefully using your skills, you’re almost constantly throwing skills around now. You see many players just using rotations regardless of what the enemy is doing.

Now, the Elite Specs weren’t the only reason for power creep, there was the merging of many different traits in the original Specialization update. It’s a system I like conceptually, but it may have been better if certain traits had just just disappeared or receive more significant nerfs before being merged together. Almost every class got a huge boost in overall power and then HoT came and added even more must-use traits.

I’m sure some players prefer this faster pace, but I for one can’t even be bothered to watch GW2 PvP anymore because the screen is just a mess of skills and particle effects – which is funny since that was a complaint you saw a lot at launch. Even with me knowing what is going on it can still be hard to make any sense out of it.

My other major issue that has also been present since launch is the overall class balance. We all know balancing a game like is is impossible, but GW2 has been one hell of a rollercoaster ride. Warriors started off at the ultimate noob killers, then were useless, then were dominating as Hambow, then they did nothing well, then Shoutbow became a thing, then it became weak again, and now they seem to be OK but are lacking much of the variety the class used to have. Ele also had a fairly similar experience of up-and-down balance.

My timeframe may be a little off but I believe that the time of the Hambow Warrior was one of best in terms of balance we have ever seen, with the exception of the Hambow build itself. Warrior could do pretty much any role you wanted. It may not have been the best at it, but it was at the very least viable. You could do CC on Hammer, stack a crazy number of bleeds on Sword/Sword, provide support with Shouts, and straight up DPS with Axe and GS. That kind of variety is what I think all classes should aspire to. They can all fill a Support, Physical Damage, Condition Damage, or Control role, but in different ways. For example, Warrior being really good at stacking one condition but Necromancer applies a moderate amount of many different condis.

The framework for this seems to be present in most classes, and is probably what the Devs originally wanted. They were killing the holy trinity by making every class able to fulfill every role. The problem is that now most “meta” classes are able to do a bunch of different roles in one build instead of having to focus on one primary role and maybe one or two lesser roles. Again, I think this is because many traits have too many different effects. Simplifying the trait system would hopefully allow for more defined roles with less bloat.

For those unaware of the game.

While there are many differences between GW2 and BR, there are concepts in BR that I think could be adapted into GW2. The most important concept being simplicity. BR is by no means an easy game, but from the time I have played so far most every skill is very simple and straightforward. The same applies to the buffs you select at the start of every round.

You have the choice to either specialize into one of your abilities or you spread them around, but doing that doesn’t seem to make you good at everything. Now, I can’t claim to know how BR’s balance and meta currently are (some things do seem a bit too strong), but I do think that balancing these problems will be easier than what balancing GW2 currently involves.

So many attacks and traits in GW2 have multiple powerful effects that it can be hard to figure out just what is making a certain build OP. Sometimes it just comes down to the design of Conquest (in the case of DH), but other times the design of the classes themselves are just so bloated that it’s a combination of serval different skills and traits that we have now become trapped in a cycle where builds don’t get toned down, they just get flat out destroyed because balancing said class would require changing a ton of different traits and skills.

When GW2 first launched, the combat was much simpler. Go and watch some old dueling/PvP/WvW videos and compare them to what we have now. In my opinion the increased complexity didn’t make the game more skill based, it just made PvP a crazy mess, especially for a spectator. I have a feeling someone who has never played Battlerite could tune in to a stream and be able to quickly figure out what’s going on. Now, the lower player count helps, but it also helps that there’s not excessive particle effects too.

So I guess the TL;DR is this, GW2 has become too bloated and that complexity hurts the playability and view-ability of the game.

Also, before anyone says “if you love Battlerite so much why don’t you go play it.” To that I answer “I will.” I’ll keep coming back for the PvE content, but the most PvP I’ll do is maybe mess around with gimmick builds in hotjoin. I WANT to enjoy GW2 PvP, but currently it’s more frustrating than fun. Even when I lose in Battlerite, I don’t feel mad because chances are it was still fun.

I feel as though the Specializations need to be changed so that you can either:

A: Be OK at a bunch of things but not very good at any of them.

B: Specialized in one specific role.

What we have right now is:

C: Be good at dealing damage, sustaining yourself, and in some cases offering team support.

I love being able to come up with Unique builds, but the current way Specializations (all, not just elite) are they basically hamstring you into picking the best ones because the alternatives are just flat out weaker.

Not only that, several of the new weapons from HoT are just flat out better than vanilla weapons instead of just opening up new ways to play. Why would you ever not want to use Shield on Mesmer? Why use Rifle with hammer can give my Engi good damage and sustain?

Every class needs to have their power scaled back. Many, many traits and weapon skills have too many effects. If something is going to have more than one effect, then they should all be weak effects that are made to complement another trait (for example Heavy Armor Exploit and Invigorating Speed). Rev Staff 5 is a great example of a skill doing too many things. It does good damage, has CC, it’s a movement skill, and it evades.

I feel like the HoT weapon creep is because they wanted to give the skills the functionality of other weapons while keeping them unique. In some cases the design might need to change but in others simply toning back one of the effects would do.

The game was far more interesting to me when it was a bit slower paced. There was more timing required, now you have your rotation and you just throw it out at most levels of the game.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

@ Om Im

You would still be rewarded for 1v2ing due to pulling numbers away from your mate’s nodes, allowing them to more easily take those nodes, regardless of it the 2 players would slowly be able to decap you within time. You’re just not being overly rewarded if they can slowly decap you and that would be a good thing to help the viability of other builds which are mobile and DPS oriented.

Right now, it’s too rewarding in conquest for players to run fat bunkers and lure 1v2s. That’s why so many people run those specs. It’s honesty easy gameplay to over defense on a point without ever needing to worry about running DPS role. In fact it’s so easy that these types of builds dominate conquest to the point that players complain when they even see a thief on their team at all or w/e non-sustainish build that can’t stay on point that it may be.

If a point could be slowly decapped out from under a bunker simply because 2+ guys were against him, it would stress more importance on rotations and give things like thieves or w/e mobile peel it is, that much more of an important role.

Remember that that #1 complaints in this forum are about class balance but are the classes really imbalanced? or is it conquest’s match dynamic that is imbalanced? Maybe conquest rewards certain build archetypes just a bit more than it does others. Maybe this is what we need to focus on for balancing rather than pointing the finger at classes all the time.

That last part is really important. If you’ve ever spent time in dueling servers you’ll find that almost any single build can be beaten. There were some absurdly powerful builds like the old D/D Ele and Shoutbow Warrior – but even they were beatable with the right spec. The problem is that the game mode simply makes some builds better than others. A specialized duelist isn’t as good as a build that can sustain itself for ages on a point while doing decent damage (in the case of Rev good damage and some good team support too).

Having the game be more focused around being in the right area and ensuring you’re outnumbering your enemy will make bunker builds less appealing in theory because if you don’t kill them fast the side with more players on point is just going to steal the point away. It’ll hopefully take away some of the importance of builds and and instead be more about teamwork and knowing how to rotate. Rotations are important now, but I would say builds that take advantage of the game design are more important.

I’ve posted many times in the past that a Battlefield-like system could potentially work well in GW2 PvP. This would mean that:

1. The team with the most number of players on point would start to cap.

2. The cap speed would be greatly reduced if contested.

This might help keep the game from slowing down too much and would allow for larger capture points. It would be nice to also see different terrain on the points like large tombstones on Graveyard that can be used for cover and the like.

Larger capture points would also hopefully help with visibility because you could avoid bunching up. It might make certain builds more viable as well.

I just came back and I’m really surprised that you aren’t seeing a ton of Wars running Signet of Might to counter all of the DHs. I run this which is a slight variation on most of the builds I’ve seen here. It’s weaker to condi but proper use of Berserker Stance and the Healing Signet active you should be able to kill them before they kill you.

Instead on focusing at staying at range however I’m more of a fan of jumping in, taking out the target, then backing off. The combination of double Endure Pain, and Last Stand should let you just sit in the traps while you go for the combination of :

(on gs) Signet of Strength→ Head Butt→ Berserk→ Arc Divider →either Whirlwind Attack of a few swings of 100b depending on if they break stun → Swap to rifle and Gun Flame and go from there.

If you want to be insane you can try this. You can also use an Axe or Mace +Shield in the first build for more sustain.

I feel like losing Discipline for Arms is too harsh and makes you too focused on one thing.

This makes me wish a game existed where all magic is unpredictable and kind of crap but is still used anyways due to a lack of viable alternatives outside of melee. You have no idea if that fireball is going to go where you aim, if it’ll blow up in your face, or maybe it’ll be pathetically weak and just be a little spurt of flame. Or maybe stuff like this will happen where you just teleport your ally into danger instead of saving them.

After the release of Overwatch, I basically dropped GW2 PvP altogether. With the release of the new PvE content, I started playing again. Is it even worth bothering to come back to the PvP side of things? I’m seeing a TON of threads about DH’s. Are they really that uncounterable? Why not run something like this on Warrior? Heck, in S1 I played all Warrior to reach Legendary and one of the few times I felt confident is when I saw a DH on the other team because most of the time it was an easy kill. Now, Warrior has sustain buffs and has enough stability to avoid trap CC and a signet that makes you able to just laugh at their blocks. You probably don’t even need Rifle, a Axe or Mace/Shield build would probably work too since you can just face tank the traps now that double EP stacks.

Sometimes, there’s legit reasons to hate on the game balance, but I’m not seeing any changes to DH’s besides the Symbols (which I want to try because I always wanted a Symbol focused build that was any good). Other nerfs probably made them better but for once this looks like something that has some very obvious counters, unlike before where the counter was to run the same build but play it better.

I can only infer so much from metabattle, is there more build variety? There’ll always be the meta but can you at least run other builds and be viable? Being felt like i’m forced into a build is why I left in the first place.

How about matchmaking? Any better this season?

Thanks in advance.

Can you elaborate on why you can only use 1 hand? If you could get your hands on a mouse with a ton of buttons you could put on the Action combat and aim that way and use the mouse buttons for weapon skills, evades, and weapon swaps.

It’s kind of a shame, because the version of the skill with the fire field wasn’t that useful, but it was cool. It would have been interesting if they had giving King of Fires the ability to make Burning scale off of power instead of condi damage, would have been more interesting to keep the Burn than make it what is basically a spammable ranged AoE version of the base skill.

The skill effect was pretty cool as well.

I’m not a fan of Axe, not a big fan of weapons that are based around spamming your auto. Decapitate is also a really underwhelming skill. When I run power I use either this or this (sometimes I still stick with Heightened Focus on this one) depending on the enemy team comp.

Having Unblockable CC in a meta where MANY classes have a block skill that is vital to their sustain. Skull Cracker actually does good damage on Demo ammy and the other condis are still useful, especially the blind. Both versions of the build can also make condi wars a total joke. The CI version is easier but you have so much CC that they never get to get off a good combo. It’s also good against Mesmers as well. Arc Divider 1 shots most clones which heavily hinders their abilities.

Not as good as condi in team fights but if you focus on +1s and 1v1s you can be successful. You tend to get marginalized if focused in team fights.

I have been focusing on Power, but I can’t deny that condi is better for the team overall. It’s a boring playstyle but power War is just lacking compared to other classes. While I lose almost no 1v1s on power I lack the AoE condi application Mace/Shield + LB or Sword/Torch brings.

We are unfortunately the Reapers of this season, less insane than last seasons’ Reaper but the core role is the same, spam out condis faster than any one player can deal with.

They need to give power builds some sort of support to be worth using over a Rev or Thief.

EDIT: I do wanna point out though that Power War tends to counter Condi War. I know my mace/Shield + GS Demolisher build makes them look pathetic.

I won’t lie, I have a bad habit of making my builds very 1v1 or small fights focused.

One thing though, I wonder if CI will remain as dominate when the Scorched Earth bug gets fixed. It’ll still be good, but there’s no denying the bug is making it as crazy good as it is.

Now, I’m not the biggest fan of condi/hybrid builds…but it’s hard to deny their effectiveness. The basic setup is obvious enough, but I’ve been seeing a lot of build variation.

This version is fairly common.

I think the real strength behind this build atm is that Scorched Earth is bugged and removing 6 condis instead of 3. Hopefully this gets fixed soon. The build is strong but I find myself asking if this is the optimal choice.

While Cleansing Ire is very strong in this meta, there are other options for condi removal. I also think that Rousing Resilience is a really strong trait as well. Combining it with Carrion and ditching LB (along with a few other changes) can get you a fairly tough build that gains some strengths while gaining a few new weaknesses as well. The biggest one is that you lose Eternal Champion. You can take it instead of King of Fires but I’m really trying to push the burning damage in this version. You can also take Shattering Blow over EP.

Rousing Resilience Mace/ Shield + Sword/Torch

This is a bit more like the build seen from last season. I’ve been messing with both and it’s hard to say which 1 is superior. The first version is stronger vs CC and has stronger cleanse, but the second build has high health and good healing in addition to some toughness from RR. Mobility is also way better.

I want to encourage discussion and have people post their own versions so that we can debate the pros and cons of each version.

Taking credit for build creation is kinda pointless at this point. Certain combos are well know or just obvious to the point where most builds almost makes itself.

The “new meta” is just the old interrupt build that many tried the day the expansion came out only with new buffs.

Azukas.1426:

BurrTheKing.8571:

…I’m not quite sure I understand you.

When it comes to 1v1s though, it looks like Thieves are going to come back as one of the best classes for it. Saw a staff Thief that basically did little else than use Dust Strike and auto attacks for their main rotation and won basically every fight. If they had resistance they would just swap sets and go stealth until it ran out then continue repeatedly blinding.

They were also fairly tough for a thief. CC was also minimally effective.

Staff and DP is not a viable set in any sort of competitive play. Staff + DP using paladin amulet even more so.

On some of my classes there are builds which are stupid OP in terms of 1v1 but they are not tournament viable. This is a good thing because what do you get when you make the most OP 1v1 builds tournament viable?

ChronoPhantasma shatter..

I don’t disagree but I WAS talking purely about 1v1 servers. Yes, while they are fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of the game as someone who likes to practice 1v1s it gets really annoying facing nothing but Thieves and Mesmers. My War build actually beats Mes and can beat Thieves if they mess up but if it catches on I’m going to start ignoring those servers again.

OP seems to be under the impression that Thieves are weak in 1v1s but they don’t have to be.

GW2 could do with more combo skills in general. It would be nice to see cross weapon combos as well.

…I’m not quite sure I understand you.

When it comes to 1v1s though, it looks like Thieves are going to come back as one of the best classes for it. Saw a staff Thief that basically did little else than use Dust Strike and auto attacks for their main rotation and won basically every fight. If they had resistance they would just swap sets and go stealth until it ran out then continue repeatedly blinding.

They were also fairly tough for a thief. CC was also minimally effective.

jadaniel.4910:

This seems to be a subjective post to me. When I think warrior I think GW1 warrior. Stances, pretty and massive weapons, burst, enough sustain to kill something. GW2 has gotten closer since vanilla warrior before HoT. In my opinion warrior has for the most part been within the warrior theme spectrum.

An underlying question I’ve seen come up for all classes since any skill/patch/profession update is defining those lines of where one class ends and another begins. Impossible to do imo. If I was artistic/creative enough I’d show you a really neat spectrum graph that shows where every class sits in relation to others.

Not a fan of the changes you suggested, but my opinion.

Anything involving class flavor is going to be subjective. Also, you mention GW1 Warrior, which in general was about reducing incoming damage for their sustain, rather than just flat out healing.

Silberfederling.9302:

Please do not touch it guys. Last night i had a thief bickering for 5 mins straight on how op warrior and headbutt shieldbash evicerate are…

Apparently that Thief doesn’t know how to spam blind. Saw a Staff Dare Devil that literally just constantly used the dust attack and there was nothing to be done. Just have to wait till Berserker Stance is popped then just stealth till its over and continue.

While the recent changes has made Warrior/Berserker more effective, I believe that it has come at the cost of class favor. This regen based sustain is not unlike your typical Scrapper and several other builds. When i think of a Warrior I do not think of Wolverine with his healing factor.

What would give Warrior its own flavor while still being effective? Well I believe that the best way would be to make Warrior have lower healing and instead focus on taking less damage in the first place. What’s nice is that this can be accomplished by just changing some of the traits we already have.

Linking out sustain to our Burst skills is a good idea, I don’t enjoy purely passive skills and while landing a Burst isn’t some amazing feat (especially with LB), it’s more active than half of the sustain in this game currently. So my suggestions are as follows:

Adrenal Health: This is going to need a slight name change, Adrenal Fortitude maybe? The idea behind the stacks will remain the same, but instead of healing the stacks reduce incoming damage by a flat percentage. By this I mean a flat damage reduction from all sources, including conditions. The current amount of healing feels about right, so if the damage reduction is roughly equal it would probably work as well.

Defy Pain: I’ve suggested this before but I have modified it a bit. It would also give you stacks of a unique effect from landing Bursts, but it would be longer lasting and stacks higher. Each stack will give a bit of toughness. TO me this seems way more useful than getting Endure Pain, because with that Stance you simply have to trigger it then back off for a few seconds. With this you’ll simply be tough so long as you land your bursts.

These changes would theoretically make Warrior a tough bruiser that you have to wail on to take down while having a bit of healing, rather than just constantly regening health. It’s much more flavorful while still being effective.

Phizeke.9536:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Phizeke.9536:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeRnMdAVhgdhAmkCElilqADpA0ACAvn2U7rVpHE7yBA-TVCCABXcCAGTJYM7PQlyv60HgxRAIjDBAAPAgIV/ZzgAwISA+//byzjUAmpMC-w

Im enjoying this build for its defense and runes combination. Tell me what yall think.
I can either use BR or EC.

For WvW I would probably go EC. Also all Berserker might be a bit too squish. Maybe some Berserker + Valk pieces?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeRnMdAVhgdhAmkCElilqATpHE7yBvn2U7rFpA0ACAA-TlCCABUp8bSVcA4BAkxhAoO9BjpEEjjAwFnAgIVPIm9HCAgAcz2sNvZghO0hO0hO0u5NH6NH6NLFgZKjA-w

This is half Berserker and Valk now.

Seems like a decent stat spread. The whole point of the build is to outlast the enemies sustain so if you go too glassy even your traits won’t let you last long enough.

I see three potential solutions:

1. Simply reduce the CD of the skill.

2. Change the duration back but up the casting time significantly.

3. Change the effect of the skill altogether.

Phizeke.9536:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeRnMdAVhgdhAmkCElilqADpA0ACAvn2U7rVpHE7yBA-TVCCABXcCAGTJYM7PQlyv60HgxRAIjDBAAPAgIV/ZzgAwISA+//byzjUAmpMC-w

Im enjoying this build for its defense and runes combination. Tell me what yall think.
I can either use BR or EC.

For WvW I would probably go EC. Also all Berserker might be a bit too squish. Maybe some Berserker + Valk pieces?

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

For GS I like hydromancy and leech. The purpose is to pump damage, and that is an instant 2k damage from weapon swapping.

I normally do use that combo, but Impact benefits from 2 major skills.