Guild Wars 2

I would be worried about them being tempted to add in older discontinued skins like my Greatsaw.

It might sound selfish, but I think having old skins that have shot up in value because of their age and rarity is a good thing. When people see my GS, they stop and go “wow that’s a rare skin!” I react the same when I see some of the other skins from past events and the like.

If you could just pony up some cash for w/e skin you want you ruin the whole “wow” factor. No one knows if you got that rare skin legitimately or if you just bought it.

I’ve been messing around with Sword as a hybrid and using traits and runes to make up my crit chance while using an ammy with more sustain.

It’s a work in progress but the concept is interesting.

I still have decent crit from Signet Mastery, Blademaster, Pack Runes, and Signet of Fury while having the tankyness of Carrion. Might be better to dual wield swords now that you get the CD reduction. Cele Ammy might be a decent ammy as well for the default higher crit. I really wish there was a Hybrid equivalent of Marauder’s where it’s Power + Crit + Condi with a bit of Vitality.

I do wish that Arms didn’t give vuln though, it would help me stay at just 2 condis so I could avoid necros randomly sending it all back on a crit.

Edit: Runes of the Mad King are pretty fun as well.

If you want to do well with Rifle you may have to play in a way that is slightly…annoying to you. We’re used to being in everyone’s face but here you use GS basically to Whirlwind Attack through your target then Rush away and toss Bladetrail before returning to Rifle to Pew Pew at range.

You CAN get some use out of 100b if you time your Weapon Swap while you have Quickness because they’ll be slowed by Hydro Sigil.

If you’re more aggressive this might seem icky at the start but sadly GS/LB feels much weaker than it used to. It seems like everyone has a way to escape the Immob from Pin Down, Arcing Arrow hits relatively hard but it just seems to be a purely condi/hybrid weapon now. It’s not bad per-say, it just feels like a weaker setup than a Ranger running the same weapon set.

I’ve been messing around with Rifle just for giggles, and while the weapon itself is still unimpressive, the buff to Quickness has made it a bit more usable than before.

If you wanna take it to the silly extreme you can try something like this here.

If you want to be more reasonable then something more like this.

Sadly, it still just feels like a Warrior pretending to be a LB ranger, but landing Kill Shot with well timed Quickness is easier than before and just as fun. Don’t forget that KS is 1,500 range and not 1,200.

lighter.2708:

warrior sprint doesnt even matter compare to the rest of the traits on this line..

Every single minor is strong on discipline.
not as mandatory as fast hand but they are all strong compare to what arms and tactic have to offer, another line with good minors is strength, defense gives ok minors.
line with weakest minors has to be tactic. not even talking about major traits.

all discipline grandmaster traits are strong compare to arms or tactic
doesn’t matter the build, tanky or DPS or condi or anything, there’s just no way to give up discipline even with fast hand baselined.

That just means it’ll be time to start brainstorming new minor traits for those weak lines once we get FH baseline.

One battle at a time.

Darksteel.8412:

ronpierce.2760:

I vote remove it and make 5 second swap baseline across the game! 5 second just has a nicer flow, and everyone has combos between weapons, let’s behonest. Then balance accordingly!

no you are just out to ruin the warrior if not the whole game, mesmer thief ranger dont need fast hands for sure….the warrior does, it’s about build diversty not childish “what he has I want tooooooooo”…srsly. also are you suggesting warrior is OP now… not even close to like a handfull of other classes

It’s pretty safe to say that a 5 second swap on Guard/Ranger/Thief/Etc would lead to some massively OP combos because the weapons weren’t designed around that being possible, Warrior was.

Necrotize.2974:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I find it weird that this is even considered a major “issue” considering Ranger’s place on the hierarchy. They don’t have much going for them and Taunt is the one way for them to make some builds work. I’ve been running Traps in PvP and the only reason I can reliably land them is because of that taunt.

Because people complained non-stop about Blinding Dissipation not working as intended but so few actually care about this, showing that they don’t really care about bugged skills or broken mechanics, they just wanted to nerf mesmer specifically. I honestly thought it’d be the other way around as hard CC that makes you attack the pet is a little more noticeable than a short range, self centered blind.

Mesmer is also much, much stronger than Ranger overall atm. The Beastmastery line is basically the only thing keeping Rangers Semi relevant. It makes them great stomp deniers and you can also trait to be a fast reviver as well.

Also, I’ve yet to see it go through evades/stability.

You make a solid point with the Blinding Ashes comparison. It would give several combos a much needed kick.

If it was rebalanced across classes like Ele, sure. It seems like it would be a good buff to Ranger in some cases and they could use the help.

I find it weird that this is even considered a major “issue” considering Ranger’s place on the hierarchy. They don’t have much going for them and Taunt is the one way for them to make some builds work. I’ve been running Traps in PvP and the only reason I can reliably land them is because of that taunt.

Sagat.3285:

The cele signet is decent at best it doesn’t cure flaws and is quite situational just countering ele is not a valid reason to call it really strong. MM is where it’s at that will always be necro’s most potent spec but obviously it’s limited due to AI patterns.

Actually, having a spec that counters a build that is considered OP IS a pretty valid reason. Yes, the class may not be perfect, but it has a role. I’m considering specing my Necro for Anti-Ele and swapping to it whenever I see a Ele on the enemy team. Even if it’s only moderately effective against other classes, taking the OP class out of the picture is super valuable.

Ehecatl.9172:

I’m a roleplayer who also does PVP, but I would never try to roleplay in the Mists. From my experience PVPers tend to be EXTREMELY volatile toward the roleplayer crowd, even if the roleplayers are also PVPers.

Maybe GW2 has a more mature PVP community, but I’m not willing to try and see.

It’s weird, compared to other MMOs/Mobas (because GW2 PvP feels like Moba lite) players here are way less hostile, but things still feel hostile. I think it’s the fact that players are frustrated with us jumping from one superior meta to the next. It’s never something being slightly OP, it’s always a few builds totally dominating the PvP scene. This makes players irritable, myself included. I was way more friendly in some of the older metas where it was possible to build to counter the current meta, now it’s generally better to just go with the meta because it’s miles better than anything else.

If ANet brings Mes/Ele/Burning in line, I think we’ll see a much more friendly/relaxed community.

Isn’t Cele Signet Necro really strong currently? It has great boon corruption and is just generally a good all rounder. They’re also massive meat tanks in terms of the punishment they can take.

The class needs some buffs (in the case of Plague Sending a nerf/functionality change) but for the first time since Dumbfire they’re actually seeing some play, especially since if played right they’re one of the few classes that’s good against D/D Ele. I actually hope to see more of them because me may not need that many Ele nerfs if you can bring a necro to lock them down.

It actually reminds me of when Mace/Shield Warriors first started seeing play because Dumbfire Necros one major weakness was CC. Now Necros are seeing play because they are decent at countering the Ele meta.

I’ve personally never seen it. We (I) mostly just trash talk and complain.

I don’t have much experience RPing but I don’t think there’s enough in HotM to really facilitate it. I could also see haters following you around and mocking/taunting the RPers. My theory is that during the sales we got an influx of bad LoL/Dota players seeking the more casual difficulty of GW2 and that’s why things have gotten so much more hostile.

Hey there, a few weeks ago I posted a Poison Focused build, but found it lacking. Since then I fell in love with Trapper builds, and saw that there was the possibility for a build that is both in line with the gimmick but still has decent sustain and even a bit of team support.

The Serpent Trapper ((better name pending))

If you can catch your foe unawares the amount of poison you can put out is crazy. You not only have high damage from poison and bleeds but from your power damage as well. Please note that I don’t consider this build to be “viable,” it is however rather enjoyable.

If you want something that takes advantage of the current burn meta something like this here would probably be better.

BlackTruth.6813:

BurrTheKing.8571:

@BlackTruth I’m actually looking for builds like this or this that are mostly support focused but also bring decent damage, like Guardian currently can.

Those builds might not have the best ammy/rune setups, but as a concept you can get the idea. I really like the idea of the Crusader ammy.

None of those builds can compete with Guardian or Ele. None. There is no incentive to pick any of your non-discipline builds over d/d ele or guardian even with baseline fast hands.

A better solution would be to just nerf D/D ele (specifically burning) instead of baseline fast hands and maybe the meta won’t be so enforced.

At the game’s current state, the best role that Warrior will fulfill even with baseline fast hands is “melee carry dps roamer” just because discipline is just too good to not have AND that zerker specs are actually rewarding now.

I’m not saying that I’m not for a D/D nerf, most players are. That being said, those builds would bring a totally different kind of support than Guardian. Bunker guards have almost no significant damage, while MediGuard support is Aegis, occasional condi cleanse, and occasional Stab. Shout Wars bing consistent healing, condi removal, and might.

Just having access to Berserker’s Power will mean having higher damage than Shout Wars currently have/had. Btw I think that Shouts should be reverted to their old values.

Also, not everyone plays Warrior to be just TPvP meta viable. Some like to run different builds just for fun. Fast Hands not being baseline limits the number of those fun builds dramatically.

I don’t play my teef much, but right now S/D seems like what the weapon set is SUPPOSED to be. It was broken good before, now it just seems balanced. The lackluster feeling comes from D/P being so prevalent. ANet seems fixated on the idea of stealth camping and blind spamming when it comes to Teef/Mes these days.

I rarely ever enjoy fighting Teef while on another class, but the current S/D isn’t bad. It generally feels like it comes down to who plays better. When you fight D/P, it’s very possible for them to just disappear once things start going bad and not reappear for 20+ seconds. Heck, you can down them early on in SR and if you can’t find them due to a lack of AoE and not getting lucky with cleave they could revive and you won’t even know you actually downed them.

S/D seems a way healthier build to encourage overall.

@BlackTruth I’m actually looking for builds like this or this that are mostly support focused but also bring decent damage, like Guardian currently can.

Those builds might not have the best ammy/rune setups, but as a concept you can get the idea. I really like the idea of the Crusader ammy.

Cobrakon.3108:

kdaddy.5431:

answer is, for the most part yes.

Rampage was only good in team fights with the condi stance. In 1 vs 1 it isnt very good vs better players so players saying rampage needed a nerf probably werent very good. Also the fact that there were already so many counters to rampage but everyone comes here to complain when they dont want to change anything about there build.

The only thing you can do now is run shouts with the elite signet and play support or switch to any other class but ranger.

I don’t think this is entirely true.

In 1v1 no matter how skilled one person is over a warrior… It is a nuisance Rampage and Endure Pain can create to someone who needs to kill the warrior within a certain time frame. Remember this is pvp where other enemy players are often right around the corner. Its bad enough that its a set it and forget it type skill.. (to many of those in the game Imo) but it is also very effective at using it and running to your team mates for help. Or it simply gives you more time for your team mates to come help even if you stand still.

As a thief I feel like If i can dodge and avoid a warriors stuns/dmg and land big damage on him, I should handily win the fight.

But also if a warrior lands stuns/dmg on me enough times and he dodges my stuns/dmg he should win the fight..

IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK? WHY ALL THE GOD MODE abilities in this game…. its just terrible.

Some will say if your better then the warrior you will win.. that’s not always true.

1. If rampage prolongs the fight then he has a better chance of team mates helping out.
2. If your only a certain amount more skilled then a warrior then rampage is often the deciding factor. If your twice as good, then its probably just a nuisance, if your only 10 percent better, then why should rampage be the determining factor?

You see the game has put in these trash abilities…. should casll them troll abilities.

I prefer a balance of stun, dodge ,and damage

I think you’re looking at things in a 1v1 frame when the game is balanced around team fights. While in 1v1s Rampage is strong, but it can still be easily marginalized in a team fight just as easily as it can win a team fight.

I for one find really cool Elites that actually change the fight to be a fun addition, if well implemented. The problem with Lich was that when it came down to it the Elite was about auto attacking. Rampage is more about landing all the skills. Sadly, most of the Form elites are really boring and could use a revamp.

Warrior is all about cross-weapon combos. For example, using a skill like Backbreaker/Earthshaker/Pin Down/Skull Crack to land Hundred Blades. Using Combustive Shot on LB with either Savage Leap on Sword, Earthshaker on Hammer, or Call To Arms on Warhorn are also important combos. If Shouts ever get reverted using Fear Me! in order to land more difficult to land attacks like Pin Down is also important. There’s also the ability to use Quickness either from Frenzy or Heightened Focus to land the more telegraphed attacks.

You could also run something crazy like Hammer + Sword (for mobility)/Mace with Bull’s Charge on your utilities and chain together a long stun chain.

One more thing, if you haven’t already bind “Sheath Weapon” to something you can easily access. Use it to cancel skills like Backbreaker, Skull Crack, or Kill Shot (not that rifle is very good) when you know they are going to miss. It’s great for baiting out dodges/Aegis/Blocks.

They let you bring either more support in the form of Shouts while not totally losing out in terms of defense. It also let’s you take Strength and Arms together to make good hybrid or just better damage builds.

You’d never see builds like this now, because losing Fast Hands make the builds clunky and basically useless.

I don’t think CI needs to be baseline. If Shouts are made useful again our condi cleanse won’t be bad.

CTFT.2740:

Just name me one build that couldn’t be better dropping for something for FH (PS dungeon build being the exeption that proves the rule)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNBMhNaknDa9wKPwzDoDxwUghPuIQB4GgBgRWODCbtAA-TpRFwAYLDA4EA04BAgb/hEHCAEHBAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASTj8cQrHW5BeeAdIGKCMc11CCB2AoDGAydQfLJA-TpxHABBcBAE4BAMwRAQl9HsuMAAHCAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeRjMdQXIWFCmhApIGICM8E8CGBWAICMAuQYDY5B-TpBFABiXGohTAQN7P02DAYhDBAAHBAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAS8cjMdQXIW4BOeAnIGICMs19CGBWA4D2zuywHIoB-TpRFwAt3fAwRAIxFAQxBBAxDAwaZAA

(That last one is kinda a fun build concept)

Can we please stop bringing Eles into this? I only mentioned Illusionary Persona because it’s a trait that got made baseline because it was seen as an essential part of the class to make them function properly.

If you think Ele needs stuff made baseline, please make your own post. I’m focusing on Warrior because I’m the most familiar with how they work/don’t work. They are also just a few minor changes away from having more than double the number of viable builds they currently have.

I am aware that other classes suffer from this, however, now that ANet has set a standard that says that traits can be made baseline if they are needed, now is the time to ask for changes like this.

Tzozef.9841:

Yep, absolutely agree.

I would also like to make a SUGGESTED REPLACEMENT when Fast Hands (5 sec weapon recharge) becomes baseline.

The new trait will be still called “Fast Hands” but will reduce the next weapon skill used recharge by 33%.

33% might be a bit high, but I like the concept. Maybe start with something like 10-15% and see how that works. Would have to be next “non burst” attack as well.

Okamikazi.8652:

Base line Fast Hands is not enough for WvW. To me CC Defense is top priority.

If Fast Hands gave stacks of stability (more than 1), breaks stun, including immobilization whenever we change weapons, then ill be for it. I mean c’mon the symbol for immobilization is a chain and what is the symbol for break stun? A broken chain. Ya anet can still give us the finger and change the symbols.

We already have great Stability Access. Heck, if you wanted you could go Balanced Stance, Dolyak Signet, and Last Stand, bring Rampage along too. You could still even bring double Endure Pain, because in WvW you can bring food to reduce condi duration and stack it with runes.

EDIT: Here, you should never have to worry about CC again.

You could even go tactics for even more anti-condi and anti CC!

I’m all for there being a bigger focus on interrupts in the game. I would have no real issue with CS if it only triggered on a Interrupt. Fix the Pistol trait and you’ve got yourself a really cool potential lockdown build.

GW1 Mesmer was more about punishing players rather than outright damaging them. It’s a lot more skillful and creative.

Belial.9350:

Why do warriors need fast hands any more than guardians do?

Guardian weapons tend to have a very obvious and strong combo that is self contained on that weapon. For example:

On Greatsword: Binding Blade → Symbol of Wrath → Pull → Whirling Wrath → Leap of Faith

On Hammer: Zealots Embrace → Ring of Warding → Banish → Mighty Blow

Now, you can shorten this or slightly alter the order depending on the situation, but the fact remains that these combos are generally contained on the weapon.

On Warrior, you’re often dependent on cross-weapon combos to do damage. Outside of PvE or cleaving on a downed body, Hundred Blades will not connect on any decent player unless you set it up somehow with Skull Crack, Tremor, Backbreaker/Earthshaker, Pin down, or Bull’s Charge. Warrior’s only combo field comes from LB and being able to reliably swap to your other set after Combustive Shot to make use of the field is important. Oh, not to mention many autos on Warrior tend to be pretty bad.

That’s why weapon swapping is so important to Warriors.

Choppy.4183:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I forget that the majority of that sub is PvE players.

I can actually sympathize with pve players who’d react against anything appearing to be a buff to warriors. Not because they’re right (they aren’t), but because at least one warrior is almost always guaranteed a place in a dungeon group whereas others will get booted.

Nobody likes it when someone who has an advantage asks for more.

That a baseline FH probably wouldn’t affect the warrior dungeon build at all (might on swap still synergizes with PS) likely hasn’t occurred to them.

Yah, I kinda get that, although I did specifically mention PvP/WvW in my post.

The annoying part was the “half truthfulness” of some of the responses. Yes, Shatters are a Mesmer’s class mechanic, but getting the affect on yourself by default wasn’t. They also seem to not realize that unlike other classes with 10 second weapon swaps, Warrior AA’s tend to be really lackluster because you’re not supposed to be camping one weapon. A lot of the attacks also tend to be based around cross weapon combos while Guards have an obvious combo that is self contained on that weapon.

As a Warrior main the need seems obvious. Also, I really don’t see Wars suddenly becoming Gods just because they have a faster weapon swap.

Choppy.4183:

Did the arguments against tend to fall along the lines of “warriors are already OP”, “that would be an enormous power creep”, “why shouldn’t my class get it too”?

It’s incredible how many people forget that every warrior they’ve come across in the last couple of years has had FH, and it’s not as though the Discipline line is a wasteland otherwise.

“Just come up with a build without discipline. I play thief and Trickery was also ‘mandatory’, along with deadly arts for damage. Now I just ditched trickery, got Shadow Arts and Critical strikes with Deadly Arts and I’m having a blast!”

“Baseline? Warriors would be able to weapon swap more often than anyone else? Why?”

“You can’t compare iPersona to Fast Hands. Shatters are the mesmer’s unique ability, but weapon swapping is not the warrior’s unique ability. Adrenaline and Burst skills are.”

I asked several of them to produce a Warrior build that was good and didn’t use the Discipline line. None responded.

I’m sure we would have gotten to the “War OP” zone eventually. I forget that the majority of that sub is PvE players.

So, I tried to make a gw2 subreddit post and was immediately hate brigaded to the point where I just deleted it. The language from here was almost identical. Unsurprisingly, all of their flair of the commenters were non-warrior.

I need to learn that that subreddit isn’t the place to discuss class balance, or really anything “serious.”

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Lets diminish the value of making a choice further and also hand out a baseline third weapon to swap to so it goes well with fast hands. A true master of arms should surely utilize 3 weapons in combat.

next on the menu: Cleansing Ire baseline! go go go

Good job trying to distract from what we’re ACTUALLY asking for by bringing up something that no one here is asking for.

This isn’t about choice, because there’s not much choice to be made. Again, post me a build that is worth using that doesn’t use the Discipline line. Actually, for extra credit give me one that is viable and doesn’t use both Defense and Discipline.

philheat.3956:

Honestly in the past, only pve warrior went for 3 pts for FH and maximize power and critical line

Hambow and Shoutbow (the true warrior tanky pvp build) always went for the entire discipline line, to take Burst Mastery

Discipline line is not bad, it has really good traits.

It’s not that Discipline is bad, it’s that we’re FORCED into taking it just to get one minor trait. I have several build ideas using Strength – Defense – Tactics or Arms – Defense – Tactics but none of them work right now because they don’t work without the fast weapon swaps. So many combos rely on fast swaps.

I made a PvP post here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warriors-Need-Baseline-Fast-Hands/first#post5331325

Opynn.2936:

Brust cooldown reduced by basline I think form 10s to 8s.

I forgot about that. Honestly you hardly notice because you’re forced into Discipline anyways.

philheat.3956:

I think we always need to be really carefull to give strong stuff baseline (see Mesmer status now).

I think FH baseline make sense for warrior but historically Anet has an amazing tendence to overbuff profession.

We see this with Necro Dhummfire, Warrior hambow for a long time and now with Mesmer.

I think the real problem is not the Warrior but other professions too strong right now.

Fast Hands not being baseline means Warriors are basically forced to have Discipline. The general power of the Defense line all but necessitates it as well.

In the past, we could spec just partly into the mandatory lines and put the other points elsewhere. It wasn’t uncommon to see Wars using 4 lines. That isn’t possible anymore. We can’t just go 15 into Discipline, we gotta go all the way. Defense will probably always be a most for many builds just because it’s a good line. Making FH baseline however means we could drop Disc for another line.

I for one am tired of having 2/3 of my Specs chosen for me.

The warrior form post.

For too long Warriors have been FORCED into the Discipline line in order to get Fast Hands. I dare you, name ONE viable build available to Warriors that doesn’t use this Specialization that doesn’t lose out to a build that does. Not going to happen. The way Warrior weapons work, swapping frequently is a must.

Making Fast Hands baseline would open Warriors to several new build options. We could replace Discipline With Tactics and take a Warhorn to make up for Warrior’s Sprint and Brawler’s Recovery. This would also let us bring Shouts and the Defense line but also be able to bring Strength or Arms so we can have damage and support.

While they are different classes, if Mesmer can get a GM like Illusionary Persona made baseline because it was such an important trait, I see no reason why Warrior can’t get a minor trait made baseline. Fast Hands is arguably more important to Warrior than IP is to Mesmer.

phokus.8934:

Did Warrior’s not get anything baseline with the new traits?

As far as I know, no.

On another note, let’s not forget how abysmal many of our minors are as well.

“Invented” and “popularized” are two very different things. Even before the Specialization patch most builds “invented” themselves because of how simple the system is by design and because the devs intended they synergy.

Heck, I remember using using Shoutbow early on in PvE/WvW because I found the combo-system interesting. I don’t claim to have “invented” it, it was clear that the devs intended that kind of synergy to begin with.

Now, if you make a build become popular because you used it successfully via streaming/using it in a tourney/forum post/just using it in PvP, that’s a different story.

It’s likely that they aren’t sure HOW to fix the bug yet. Wars had to wait for a fix to LB with Zerker’s Power until today. They probably disabled it because it was constantly procing +20% damage every time it pulsed, similar to how it used to bug out with Cleansing Ire.

Some of the persisting bugs that weren’t fixed were either low on the priority list or they’re still figuring it out. I’m just glad they’re hopefully patching more than once a month for tooltip/bug fixes and 6 months for balance changes.

Sorel.4870:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Warrior is in the state it is

Rather meta you mean?

Only brought for Rampage, which was just toned down. With the absurd amount of blind flying around, and the general strength of Mes/Ele, Warrior is obsolete.

What does Warrior do better than Guardian? CC? Easily mitigated by the aforementioned blind. Support? Shouts were nerfed and even if you count the new heal as a overall buff, it’s easily interrupted and if you go Shouts you’re going to have to be pure support. Oh, and Guards are better bunkers. Mediguards can also trait so that they bring decent support and damage.

So yah, Warriors are in a dire state once people start learning to counter Rampage (which wasn’t hard before, but even easier now), there will be little to no reason to have one on your team.

I do hope to see more frequent patches. That being said, if we could have some of the balance devs visibly hanging out around the class forums it would be greatly appreciated. Warrior is in the state it is mostly due to poor trait locations and a lack of baseline Fast Hands.

If Mesmer can get a GM trait moved to baseline because it is considered a must-have, I feel the same should apply to Warrior with a minor trait that locks every build into that one Spec line.

Marthkus.4615:

Longbow can now proc berserker’s might. This is more useful to me than Rampage.

Yes, but will that make us suddenly better than Guardian? Not even close. You know things are bad when Guardian has more wiggle room for builds than Warrior.

While I don’t find the Rampage nerf to be a bad thing, it’s likely to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back in terms of PvP/WvW viability.

There’s several things holding us back, but one thing has been standing out more than others:

Fast Hands

There are several potentially strong builds, but they never end up working out because so many cross weapon combos rely on that short weapon swap CD.

There’s also the issue of the Defense Spec being almost required as well, but building a Warrior without the Discipline line is almost unheard of (there were a couple of good condi-shout builds that went Arms-Defense-Tactics a while ago).

If we want to avoid dropping to bottom tier (we might already be there now), we need to unite and once again push for a baseline Fast Hands. If Mesmer can get a GM trait like Illusionary Persona made baseline because the class needed it to function, why can’t we get Fast Hands?

The only real issue I foresee is if the Warrior Elite Spec (supposedly Berserker) would somehow be too strong with FH being baseline. That being said, I have a feeling that the Spec would need FH to work properly anyways.

I could see it working out. “To the Limit!” is the only semi-useful heal that can benefit from RS and is also a Shout.

Even with the Spec update changing a lot, it’s clear I was right when I said that Engi was being carried by the old Cele ammy. What you said about damage mitigation didn’t really change much and now that Cele isn’t king Engi went down with it. I love the flavor of the class but now it just feels almost as weak as War and Ranger.

SD builds can be strong but do little that Mes doesn’t do better.

Now that Combustive Shot triggers Berserkers Power I’m going to see if I can get some sort of Hambow or Axebow build to work.

The wall I always run into is Fast Hands. I’ve tried not using it but Warrior just doesn’t work without it. You can do without the other traits, but without FH no build works. I could see several builds without the Dis line working in FH was baseline being able to bring some good support and damage and making the class more than a subpar Guardian.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@BurrTheKing &To the people saying Robert broke/ruined/made bad changes to Mesmer, a little context…

• Mesmer got 30+ traits redone and reworked.

• Majority of those traits are fantastic.

• 2 traits are overtuned. (Confounding and PU) 1 is bugged (Blinding Dissipation)

Balance is difficult guys, he knocked it out the park with almost all of our traits and we don’t even know if the PU/Confounding change was his decision.

---

Fun fact: Confounding Suggestions as a trait isn’t overpowered on it’s own nor is it grandmaster-worthy. Without Mantra of Distraction, Confounding wouldn’t even be mentioned here. It’s the combination of both that is too much.

I understand that, but the second I saw the CS changes first suggested I instantly went “that seems too good with Mantra of Distraction.” Then, I saw PU and said “how is this good in ANY way!” If something can be combined in an OP way, the thing that pushes the formerly balanced thing over the top is OP imo.

I don’t think Mesmer NEEDED blind. Seriously, use one of the other 2 traits in that spot, you’ll still feel strong, but less cheap. That trait also blurs the line between Mes and Thief which imo is not OK.

Kamikazi.5380:

Honestly some of these suggestions are just flat out bad. The simplest method of reviving Hambow is this.

Switch the banner master trait and Merciless Hammer.

Combine all the previous banner traits into it. The GM banner trait will now give regen, shorter cooldown, deal damage when you place a banner, and has increased radius

Done.

Ummm…that’s literally what I post. By “buffing Inspiring Battle Standard” I meant bringing back all of the old stuff it used to give. That being said, making it possible to wear banners on your back would make them have use in WvW as well.

Jelzouki.4128:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I disagree. I feel like his changes generally moved both classes in the direction that few players who played those classes actually wanted.

For Mesmer:

• Added Blinding Dissipation, a trait that is unavoidable and further blurs the line between Mesmer and Thief.

• Buffed PU, once again blurring the line between Mes and Thief. Mes used to be all about shorter duration stealths so that you can set up some of a spike, not camping in stealth so that you can set up a full spike before the enemy player even sees you.

• Made a once GM that could have been good as 100% stun on daze, did that, and then made it a ADEPT TRAIT! Now landing spikes are even easier than just beyond using stealth stacking.

• Builds in general just feel like slightly different flavors of the same thing when it comes to power.

For Necro:

• Rather than making it the attrition class that it was in GW1, it is now a class that doesn’t actually have good condi application unless the enemy has good application.

A passive that just transfers condis for you? How fun and engaging! /s

• MM is still basically about using your weapon skills while your braindead minions help you passively sustain yourself. Also, even while strong 1v1 to those who don’t know how to fight them, any class with decent AoE/cleave can just rush into them and group them together, kill them, then avoid the AoE they leave behind. Especially easy to do as a GS Warrior with double EP.

I have a guildy who uses it and they seem to only use it out of GW1 nostalgia.

• Few of the long standing issues the class has had where actually addressed. head over to the Necro forum where these issues can be discussed by players that main it.

So no, I don’t think Mr. Gee’s work on this update was that great. For Mesmer, there was some good ideas, but too many took the skill away from the class and instead just made it a better version of a Thief.

While I generally am on the side of buffs over nerfs, in GW2’s case bring everyone up to Mesmer level would make the game just about who has their burst off CD and can hit it faster.

Necros have been crying for better siphoning traits because previously a regeneration boon was better than all our siphoning combined. Robert Gee was a God send for necros and mesmers I don’t know what you’re talking about.

You clearly do not play necro if you think he didn’t put necromancers in the right direction, and we don’t lack condi application. Using the scepter for condo is just obsolete because of how underwhelming it is now.

I didn’t say there wasn’t some good changes, but can you really say that traits like Plague Sending are really good for the class? Same with Chill of Death and Weakening Shroud, they’re all traits that just sort of happen on their own. I prefer traits like Patch of Corruption that requires landing a specific skill to get the effect.

We have similar traits on Warrior now like Heightened Focus. Seemed fun at first but now it’s just like “hey good job for reaching the halfway point, here have a free easy to land combo!” It also means that I actually rarely use Frenzy now because I don’t have to make the hard choice of whether I drop another Stance for it.

Let’s not forget double EP, many Wars hate it, but if you don’t bring it you have 0 sustain.

Dirame.8521:

BurrTheKing.8571:

For Necro:

• Rather than making it the attrition class that it was in GW1, it is now a class that doesn’t actually have good condi application unless the enemy has good application.

A passive that just transfers condis for you? How fun and engaging! /s

Whilst I agree with most of what you said, this in particular, you are totally wrong about.

In what way?

I rarely fear Necros condi application unless I have good condi application myself. I was playing a hybrid interrupt focused build with Distracting Strikes and the only reason I ever lost was because I chained together 3+ interrupts and then all that confusion came back to me without any real input from the Necro. Hitting a crit isn’t something you control generally, it just happens. It’s like any of the “do X on crit” traits, if your build has any sort of decent crit chance it’s going to happen eventually. Especially so when you have skills like Locust Storm hitting so often.

Skills like Putrid Mark require actually landing a specific attack with a tell and is generally avoidable. Plague Sending would require you to just avoid being hit at all while the Necro has 3+ condis. It’s basically as bad a counter as Diamond Skin to condi builds only it’s an Adept and actually sends those condis back. It’s the same issue as Incendiary Powder, it’s going to hit you eventually unless you can somehow never get hit by a single crit.