Guild Wars 2

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Sagat.3285:

Since it’s in the same tier as CI I support this +1.

aye thanks for the support!

Zuik.7158:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“Remove a condition, gain toughness and health when you activate a stun break.”

I see what you did there…

eheheheh that’s the whole idea.

“Oh my, what in the world happened to your blind!?”

Actually, instead of just making it cleanse a condition, why not make it focus on removing blind?

That would give it a flavor of its own while still keeping it good.

Honestly, that’s probably how Warrior condi removal should have always worked, have a few ways to remove the most harmful condis like Immob and Blind but having to heavily spec in order to just removal random condis.

I love rocks!

(I love lamp…)

Sword and the Arms line are both well designed for hybrid builds. The problem lies in the fact that the best amulet for hybrid is Rampagers but that has no extra vitality like Marauder so it’s too glassy for anything outside of duels. Carrion and Celestial are decent substitutes but you end up getting or losing stats that you don’t really want. I can get a good Carrion/Rampager mix in WvW but not in PvP. Doesn’t help that you tend to be selfish as a Sword build…actually I may be as to modify Hambowanner to use Sword…

The daze on Skull Grinder is good due to its synergy with distracting strikes. You want your target to keep using skills as much as possible so that you actually hurt them with the confusion. It’s the same reason why rifle got a interrupt as well. I could see mace and rifle builds focused on interrupts being fun. It would make Sundering Leap better as well.

Speaking of the leap. It would be amazing to have it be able to leap up on some ledges. Weaker version of Blink.

While it’s a pretty dang cool looking spec, I saw nothing that won’t force Warrior out of Defense and Discipline in PvP/WvW.

Once again, if Fast hands was baseline it would open several more build options:

Arms – Defense – Berserker

Arms – Tactics – Berserker

Strength – Defense – Berserker

Strength – Arms – Berserker

Strength – Discipline – Berserker

The list goes on. However, with no baseline Fast Hands we got:

Defense – Discipline – Berserker

There might be a few more options, but they will probably pale in comparison.

The problem you run into with both of your suggestions is that you end up losing something to lean more towards something else.

Taking Dolyak runes: Lose a lot of Might stacking and bonus damage.

Phalanx Strength: You have to drop either Strength or Defense. The extra support from Phalanx Strength is imo too short range for PvP and giving up Berserker’s Power is not worth it imo.

I am and will probably always be against adding any kind diminishing returns for CC. It would totally ruin many specs that are dependent on chaining CC together. I have every class and the only one that feels really weak to CC is Necro. Even then you could build to not be weak to it.

I agree that Ele is the major issue and that Guard and Engi burn application is fine.

Also, the Berserker elite spec is going to be very burn focused and it would be a shame to have burning nerfed to the point of irrelevance and have the spec be terrible because of it just because of one build.

Ever since the patch i have been frustrated by how little support Warrior can bring to your team. Going full Shouts can still bring OK support, but you’re basically a bad Guardian. With Inspiring Banners being in Discipline it’s possible ditch Tactics altogether and still bring some stances for sustain.

Hambowanner

I’m still messing around with which Banner is the best. I was using Discipline but I think Defense is better for sustain and the 2 skill is a CC that synergizes with Body Blow.

Cleric Varient

I haven’t tested this version much yet but it’s basically more support focused.

I’m going to need to do more testing but this concept is actually pretty promising. Yes, the lack of CD reduction on Banners is annoying, but generally there’s only 25 seoncds of downtime.

Berserker seems to have some good synergy with Tactics…which seems ironic.

For example, the cripple on Torch seems meh until you add in Leg Specialist. I’m not sure how Blaze Breaker works, if it pulses burning along its path then that synergy will be great.

There’s also Powerful Synergy as well. If you run Sword/Torch + LB You’ll be able to have almost constant fire fields. The LB Mastery trait will also be more useful as well.

Berserker – Arms – Tactics seems cool…except that once again it’s likely we’ll run into the problem of not having Fast Hands unless the traits for Berserker somehow make it not a required trait.

Taunt with LB sounds like a very easy way of landing Pin Down and a point blank Fan of Fire. If they’re low you could even go for a Final Thrust if you have sword.

I’m curious what % of players are/will be D/D Eles and Mantra Healing Condi Mesmers.

The Mad Swordsman

I’ve been really interested in the Arms line post patch. It undeniably has some of the coolest changes. However, I always run into issues whenever I try to make a build with it. Signet Mastery is cool…but you can generally only really afford to bring Heal Sig, Dolyak Sig, and Sig of Rage. Stamina is a poor substitute for Berserker Stance, and while potentially cool do you wanna drop Endure Pain for Signet of Strength?

The coolest thing about this build is how you can use a Amulet with no precision and still have good crit chance purely due to traits and boons. The Runes of the mad King also have some AMAZING synergy going on. Do not open with Signet of Rage! Save it until you’re on Sword and have maybe been forced to use your Dolyak Signet (for extra precision) and watch as your multi hitting birds deal ok power damage, apply multiple bleeds, and crit to the point where you may have 20+ stacks from Furious. Swap back to LB at close range and use Fan of Fire and watch your Burns do a surprisingly high amoutn of damage.

You CAN use offhand sword, but I find the sustain/might that shield offers to be much more useful and reliable. It also gives you a more reliable setup for Final Thrust which will actually do good damage in this setup unlike using Rabid where you’ll probably forget you have a skill 3.

I haven’t had the time to rigorously test this (really obnoxious work hours) which is why I’m posting this here. Some things I would like you all to look at:

• Using Burst Precision over Furious. In theory you could stack a lot more bleeds, but I feel like Furious is better.

• Fighting all the Meta Specs, with focus on PU Shatter, D/D Ele, and most importantly Cele Necro which I feel would be annoyingly good against this spec.

• Sigils other than Accuracy on Sword. I tried Sigil of Intelligence but it seemed wasteful.

• If any of you aren’t afraid to be bashed by your team if this ends up being terrible try running something like this here. You lose the hybrid aspect and double EP but I have been trying REALLY hard to find some way to bring some sort of useful team support that isn’t Shouts. In theory this might make you and your team more durable while still having the ability to land some nice condi spikes.

I’ve added the updated version of the build to the OP. I would agree that it is the superior version.

Well…if nothing else the Torch will look good with my Fiery Dragon Sword. I got the fire armor as well.

I’m not really sure what they’re going to do with the weapon that will be interesting. Getting a smoke field would be really fun for Sword synergy and Powerful Synergy if we got a baseline Fast Hands. If we just get a “set them on fire” skill though it’s going to be disappointing.

The animal imagery is interesting. But if we get pets we better get some major AI fixes.

Edit: since we’re only getting an offhand the weapon skills are supposed to be really impactful getting a giant smoke field so you could pull a anime-style “where is he-gaaaaah!” As you land Final Thrust would be cool. A Warrior offhand needs utility and that would be fairly fun and useful.

Using Whirlwind Attack while having Quickness makes the distance traveled much lower. This means that the hits are closer together and can hit way harder than normal. God help you if you’re near a wall.

I’m torn on this. One the one hand it’s one of the few things warrior has going for it. On the other hand it can sometimes feel downright cheap to just pull a huge hit out of nowhere.

I would say you’re exaggerating the numbers though. Even hitting every attack on someone up against the wall you would have to be the glassiest spec there is to get hit THAT hard. The Mighty Skull Crack build in my sig can get 20-25 stacks of might and use WW Attack and not hit that hard.

Soon.5240:

I should have been more clear.

Could someone who does use Mod Ammo post a link to their build?

This isn’t perfect but you can run something like this

Load them up with condis from the Mortar Kit then burst them down for extra damage.

akaCryptic.2389:

Chokolata.1870:

Well, the things that really brought the DD Cele out of line was the fact that burning started stacking, elemental atunment baseline and the introduction of more passive mitigation. They also mega buffed the fire trait line.

While burning stacking is a good change overall as it opens up builds on a lot of classes in both PvP and PvE, the issue is that they did not really consider stacking so much of it on a might stacking and heavily sustainable build.

The proper course of action here is to pass over Ele fire skills and reduce burning duration and stacks.
- Cleansing fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Ring of fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Drakes breath reduced duration by 1-2 seconds

As far as the sustain goes, I think that starting off with an increased ICD on the ice aura proc and possibly reduced protection duration on the EA earth swap would go a long way as it would open up more of a timing for a spike on the ele.
Also, an interesting thing to consider would be removing the regeneration from the Cantrip mastery and replacing it with a different boon, because Ele is so stacked against conditions that it is virtually immune.

Now we are talking. This guy knows the underlying problems. However drake’s breath was nerfed already so I think its better to remove evade on burning speed for 2 reasons. 1) Drake’s breath is a long channel so its interruptable etc. 2) Fire is ele’s offensive attunement so with damage should come risk. But you got a lot of evades and blinds so its so low risk while bursting. That needs to be toned down. (Same with imba stealth burst from xyz class). It’s fine that the class has the defensive options it needs due to the low health pool. But the damage shouldn’t be this high.

Ele is my 4th prof in terms of gameplay hours and I am by far best in pvp with her.Not even champion magus yet I frequently win against 1v2s while holding a point (warr thief , thief thief, ranger thief etc.). 1v1 I would only lose to a signet necro with +75% life force. And by losing I mean running away to help a different point. While I’m on an other class against an ele, there is no way I’ll beat him. You either have to 2v1 stunlock or just don’t bother.

The Evade on Burning Speed is excessive imo and I agree with removing it. It’s a skill that makes it very easy for Ele to set up the rest of the Fire chain. if you could interrupt it there would be much more chances for counterplay.

So, after messing around with a bunch of versions this one here has a lot of promise. While still susceptible to heavy burst, it brings a decent amount of damage and a TON of team support. You’re dropping healing fields all over, and health packs, and you’re tossing down Elixirs, it’s crazy. You could even ditch Elixir B for anything else like C or R for more team support.

I feel like you could also have fun with Rune of the Grove for additional sustain but also CC.

Oh, you’re also a good stomper for obvious reasons as well…if you get good at thing build I feel like you could be really strong.

Cynz.9437:

Blinding ashes need to go, the class already has enough defensives mechanics. Burning also needs base dmg nerf. Those 2 changes already would bring dd eles bit in line with other classes.

I understand people want to faceroll but ele in current state is just too strong and too rewarding. It has close to no downside and fills all roles with 1 build. It is just wrong.

+1

I can generally deal with all the other Ele defenses because they have generally long CDs (although they still have a crazy amount of defensive options), but the Blind is basically the thing pushing it over the edge.

Ele’s are weakest if you hammer them hard while they’re in Water or just left Water. You only have a few seconds to really hammer on them in order to down them. That generally implies heaving hitting attacks with big telegraphs. However, with Blinding Ashes apply a fairly long lasting blind with a fairly low CD being able to time a blind to avoid a big hit is child’s play. You don’t even have to do it intentionally.

Combine that with the fact that Mesmers got Blinding Dissipation (did they REALLY need more free stomps?) and D/P still being the Thief meta and it feels like you’re being blinded constantly. If you’re on a fast attacking class that’s all well and dandy for you but if you’re a War, Guard, (in some cases) Engi, etc. this can make the game simply unfun to play.

I thought Blind was bad in GW1 but GW2 has taken things to a new level. Guardians are a good example of Blinds generally done right. They have obvious tells and long enough CDs that they don’t feel excessive generally.

MithranArkanere.8957:

assassin.7895:

ranger rapid fire follows you in stealth you didnt know

That is something that should not be happening.

Entering stealth should cancel any form of targeting. So a Rapid Fire would still fire, but it should stop following you automatically, the ranger should have to guess where you are moving and aim manually.

Directly targeted skills like Flamestrike and Spatial Surge must get canceled without interruption. So they can’t finish, because the caster can’t see you. They don’t know where you are- So the skill can’t finish.

This is one of the changes Stealth needs to become a tactical tool instead something you spam as much as possible.

There’s already few enough reliable counters for stealth to remove another one. Using Pin down or Rapid Fire before the stealth are one of the few ways to actually counter Thieves and Mesmers that camp stealth. Stealth is already so strong that the current way of channeled skills following is a form of skill on it’s own. Maybe if all stealth had reduced duration across the board we could talk, but barring that the current system should stay.

In fact, i’m still annoyed that you don’t get instantly revealed if you get downed while stealth. There has been plenty of times where I have downed someone while in stealth but they can use their skill 3 to move just out of the way enough to give an ally enough time to reach them and revive them before I even get a chance to stomp them. So if we’re going to talk about mechanics being unfair, we should start there.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

There is a reason this doesn’t exist. There would be no reason not to run just this amulet. Everything you want.

Depends on what you want to do. This ammy wouldn’t really benefit most Thieves, Ele is basically designed for Cele (the problem has gone from the ammy to the design of D/D), Many Warrior and Engi Specs still wouldn’t use it.

If you ask it it isn’t fair for ANet to design weapons/kits around them being hybrid without offering a stat set that reliably caters to it. Losing Ferocity will still be a big hit to many specs so they’ll stay on Marauder.

Recently, I’ve found myself hitting a creative wall for new builds. In theory, there’s plenty of hybrid options on both Warrior and Engi, in practice few of them actually work that well. Why am I focusing on Warrior and Engi? Both classes have weapon sets or specs that only really work in a hybrid setup and lose a lot of effectiveness if they focus too heavily on one type of stat for damage.

Right now the main “hybrid” ammys are:

Celestial: Good on D/D Ele and Signet Necro. For other classes, the stats are too spread out and you end up doing nothing very well (which is probably how it should be for all classes)

Carrion: Good if you don’t rely on “on crit” traits/sigils like Burn Guard, but for Engi and Warrior it’s only “OK” at best.

Rampager: Good damage, but the sustain you’ll have will be really bad. I;ve tried using both but even a mildly skilled power player will probably burst you down quickly in a team fight.

There’s other Ammys but none of them see a ton of use, though I have seen some Settler’s Shoutbows around.

The problem with Warrior in particular is that both Sowrd and LB will both have underwhelming skills if you focus on either power or condition damage. Go condi and your Final Thrust and Arcing Arrow hit for a small amount, go power and your bleeding and Burning are hardly doing anything.

I would like to see a Ammy that is a bit like Rampager and a bit like Marauder.

Something like:

• 950 Power
• 950 Condition Damage
• 650 Vitality
• 650 Precision

It has a similar total number of stat points to Marauder but has enough vitality and precision that your sustain isn’t terrible and you can actually have decent crit chance as well. It’s more focused than Cele as well and doesn’t use stats that Hybrid Specs don’t make much use of.

Krysard.1364:

A week ago these forums had plenty of QQs about damage being too high… Sometimes I wonder if people on the forums play the same game…

A big part of this was because a large part of the community may not have noticed that Berserker Ammy is now using proper Berserker stats. Now that the use of Marauder’s Ammy is more common people realized that the damage wasn’t changes that much.

the meta actually hardly changed, it’s just that Engi doesn’t work so well with Cele anymore and Mesmer is the new Thief.

Major parts of the sirlin article seem outdated now. It was written during a period of gaming where it was unlikely for there to ever be a balance patch. Complaining about imbalance or exploits back then didn’t serve much purpose because it wouldn’t change anything.

Now, patching is the norm and player feedback can shape the game. We give ANet a lot of grief but many of the changes we have gotten have come from the forums. If you were to go back you’ll see many Warrior additions came directly from the forum suggestions.

We also now have always-online games such as this where the devs have basically said “if it seems wrong, don’t abuse it.” We’ve seen exploit abusers banned because they intentionally took advantage of oversights in the game. They don’t do this as frequently with skill/trait bugs but tbh they’re generally fast about fixing stuff as bad as Decent to Madness.

OP is also not wrong that there are people who use the term “scrub” to defend the abuse of something or in an attempt to shut down an argument. We see it plenty irl too, call someone a name to avoid having to actually have a real discussion.

There’s also the fact that there are different philosophies on how a game should be balanced. For example, I believe that a fight should be fun for both sides of a fight. Some builds/setups aren’t necessarily “OP,” but the fun is entirely one sided. Sure, I can beat a D/P Thief, but i rarely have fun while fighting them. I can think of few people who enjoy the idea of fighting someone who can spend 3/4ths of the fight in stealth and the other 1/4th blinding you every few seconds. Yes, if you catch them they die, but many walk away saying “man that was annoying” rather than “man that was intense!” Sadly, Mes has gone down this path as well with PU. I’d get started on D/D Ele but it’s such a complicated problem…

The other balance philosophy is that so long as only a few specs aren’t totally destroying everyone then it’s balanced. I personally find this to be absurd because games should be fun for all parties.

Sorel.4870:

I like the concept! I can’t play right now, but on the top of my head: have you tried Elixir Gun instead of Elixir C? Because you’re missing a stun-breaker here, and EG with HGH is amazing (and has a good synergy with your healing power). If conditions are a problem, take Hoelbrak runes. Also, don’t you think that “No Scope” would be better than “Skilled Marksman”? You could have a Fury uptime close to 100%, for a total of 30-40% crit chance a close range.
I look forward to your feedback on how this build plays. I’ve also been trying to make that rune work.

EG does seem like a viable substitute. However from what I understand there’s some bugs that keep certain traits from synergizing correctly.

My recent focus on most of my builds is a blending of offensive power and support. Unless you have the mobility of Thief or Mesmer you can’t really justify yourself with just damage alone since those classes have that already.

Elixir Support

First off, I didn’t create this concept, but I’ve been trying to refine it. I’m not 100% sure on the Crusader Ammy but it does allow you to have decent damage along with some healing from your Bunker Down Med Packs. Your Fury uptime is good and the sigil of Intel helps as well.

The last Elixir is your choice. C and R are good support and S is good for sustain. I could even see Elixir gun being good but it compounds on my biggest problem.

You would think Elixirs would be a simple build but actually it can be surprisingly complex. If you instantly use Elixir B and throw down your Toss Elixirs you don’t have to worry about micromanaging and can just camp FT and just occasionally swap for a rifle combo. However, against condi heavy specs you don’t want to do that but stopping to throw down elixirs for condi removal ruins your DPS.

It’s an interesting concept, but I don’t think it stacks up against D/D Eles, I know it loses to it 1v1. It also has issues against really high consistent damage dealers like Warriors. If you have any improvements, let me know. I fear that Cele might be better…but I really don’t wanna use it.

EDIT: Here’s a new test version using EG and Clerics

choovanski.5462:

Brawlers + Merciless Hammer is soooo nice tho.

It’s all about meaningful choices. Being able to have Burt Mastery + Merciless Hammer + Cleansing Ire should more than make up for it. Full bars Combustive Shot + 1-2 Bar Earthshaker = 4-5 condis on not that long of CD. Right now if you try to do it your Hammer doesn’t hit that hard cause you can’t have all 3 traits.

While Banners have been an important part of the PvE Dungeon for ages, they’ve only seen real use in PvP for a very short duration (and it wasn’t as effective as some made it out to be). Now, for whatever reason Banners were nerfed in the same patch as Shouts, greatly reducing Warrior’s ability to give support. The ability to offer support, and baseline Fast Hands, is keeping Warrior from seeing any sort of serious use at the moment.

Even builds such as MediGuard and Trap Ranger bring some sort of team support whether it’s AoE Aegis or faster revive speed with a bit of AoE healing. While you could still run Settler’s Shouts, there’s no way for Warrior to provide a bit of support without going totally into a nerfed part of their class. Banners being in Discipline could bring a way for Warriors to bring a bit of…Inspiration to their team.

Proposal: Changing Inspiring Banners so that it can effectively be moved around the battlefield and actually have its attack skills be used.

Changes: Move Inspiring Banners from Master to Grandmaster and replace it with Merciless Hammer (which will help other builds as well). Bring back the old CD reduction. While the trait is slotted you carry your first Banner around with you on your back. Carrying a banner replaces its Utility skill with a “Swap to Banner” button kind of like Engineer kits. Summoning another Banner works as it currently does, picking up a second Banner puts that one on your back and you drop the first one.

Details: Now, the biggest problem with my proposal will be adding carrying animations for every class and every gender. I’m sure clipping will be annoying to deal with, but personally I think the function is more important than the aesthetics in this case. I personally wouldn’t even care if they just made it hover behind you with Asuran tech or something like that.

The most interesting aspect to this change would be the ability to swap to the banner on the fly. The Banner skills aren’t amazing but they would still be worth using once and a while (making skill 5 just a blast finisher would make it pretty great). The greater mobility of the Banner in general would make Warrior able to offer some support in team fights without having to go totally down the Shouts route.

I’d like to stop being selfish and actually support my team when I play Warrior, but I don’t want to hit like a wet noodle while doing it. Oh, and can we get a look at the Tactics minor traits…they are terrible.

Call me when we’re discussing something important like the most attractive or most manly Warriors.

The problem with LB now is that it’s almost purely a utility weapon. The changes made to it make it almost purely hybrid. Also, Pin Down is pretty meh now considering that unless you’re condi bombing most can cleanse the immob before you can capitalize on it.

You CAN do well with Greatbow, but honestly it feels like a shadow of its former self.

Also, please take anything BlackTruth says with a grain of salt. His builds are basically the definition of one trick pony which he considers “skill.” He also suggested some changes to signets that was totally laughable recently and would of have their CDs upped to like 120+ seconds.

Since this has been getting more attention, I’m going to post the newer version I’ve been focusing on. In a way it’s actually an old version that I’m just using in this new system:

Mighty Skull Crack

The changes aren’t crazy, but it’s crazy how many stacks of Might you can get is nothing short of crazy. When you land the Skull Crack + 100b, even if you don’t kill them if you follow up with a Arcing Slice it’s likely to land for a crazy amount of damage.

Also, if you’re dealing with classes with a lot of stun breaks, learn to use Shield Bash and avoid using 100b for a split second. If they stun break, you can wait for the almost inevitable dodge then Crack em’. If they’re wise enough to wait for the Crack, swap to GS and just do a WW Attack or 100b to FORCE it. Even with just a Bash you can do a ton of damage and the Hydromancy Sigil will keep them close for that extra 3/4ths of a second if they don’t teleport.

Mes and D/D Eles will be hard, but you can beat them. CC an Ele just enough to bait out Armor of Earth and Flash, wait for Water, then Crack em’.

Mes will often use Blink just to escape GS damage. If they’re power, avoid using Berserker Stance until you’re actually ready to spike to avoid all that blind BS.

I gotta say the sad fact is that atm your most reliable combo is simply swapping at close range and using WW Attack. That skill hits so hard for such a low CD it would be OP if not for how underwhelming the rest of Warrior is.

Happy Crackin’!

apharma.3741:

And what of our drawbacks we used to have to dissuade people from slaughtering our clones in seconds? Not that they needed to be put off as the amount of AoE effectively makes them dead half the time anyway.

At least when I had cripple on clone death I knew I’d be able to outrun them with my slow kitten mesmer if they kept mowing my burst down, no more.

You might love lugging boulders up hills just to be on par with what everyone else is doing while watching youtube and enjoying a walk in the park but I don’t. Especially when the reward was what? Feeling you beat that guy with skill because you’re class is so hilariously bad your only relevance in most metas is portal?

Slow? Mesmer has some of the best in-combat mobility available. Don’t mistake movement speed for mobility. Skills like Blink and Staff 2 are way more valuable than any Swoop/Rush in PvP.

Phantom Master.9582:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I want to play Mesmer again, but atm the class still feels carried by traits and not the player.

Funny you didn’t feel that way during Hambow’s solid Reign on the meta.

I’ve been having the most fun playing the class post patch, I agree with your views to the CS trait, having an easy burst set-up from stealth at practically any-time is just to strong and rewards unskilled play.

I disagree with changing PU too much, it gives a breather to our defensive options, but I believe a 1+ cast time should be added to the torch stealth skill (So that it can be countered like thieve’s stealths). And possibly make that mass invis can’t be used while in stealth to avoid promoting stealth camp.

I think mesmer is fine the way it is, It would be annoying if the balance team defiled the class any further like they defiled Condi Engi/Condi Necro/SD Thief/Longbow Warrior.

I didn’t really like Hambow that much, but Warrior didn’t have much else at the time. I actually played an old version of Skullcracker back then as well unless I was with people I wanted to do well with.

Even at it’s height, Hambow was NEVER as good as Celemancers and PU Shatter Mesmers are now.

I personally thing PU should just be remade into something else. I hate random, and this trait is the very definition of it. Random boons and it allows for you to attack at your leisure in many cases. I would much rather have a trait I KNOW is going to have a certain effect when I use it.

Disabling Mass Invis while already stealthed would be welcomed though.

So, after a bit of testing I’ve refined the build a bit:

Version 2

I really didn’t want to use Cele, but it’s the best fit. Traveler is actually not a terrible fit since the build is boon focused. I dropped Signet of Mercy, it just wasn’t that good. Having access to basically 2 Signets of Wrath is great for landing your damage. I don’t think you actually NEED Wrathful Spirit but I enjoyed this build’s focus on Retaliation. I took Symbolic Avenger since you now have enough knock down and Immob to keep your target in your Symbol for a good amount of time.

It’s pretty fun, maybe not amazing but it functions if nothing else.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Alright.. This settles it. There is some secret warrior agenda vs mesmer going on here…

I’m not Anti-Mesmer. I am however Anti-These 3 Traits. I would probably be maining Mesmer if not for those traits. It also doesn’t help that several builds I WANTED to run have bugged traits atm…

Right now, even if Ele and Mes weren’t so overwhelmingly strong, I don’t think War would be strong. Let’s examine what made the previous War metas good:

Hambow: This build excelled at AoE damage via LB, Might stacking, and CC. LB has been turned into basically a hybrid only weapon, you can make it work in power builds but it feels like a shadow of its former self.

Shoutbow: A fantastic if mechanically boring Bruiser. It had Might stacking, condi clear, AoE damage, crazy condi cleanse, and could still dish out some single target damage as well. Funnily enough, with all the rest of the changes last patch they could have probably left Shout healing untouched and it would have just been balanced atm.

Both of these builds brought a decent amount of support to the table. Now, Warrior is basically 100% selfish. There’s another issue, while it might have better AoE CC than Mesmer (though they can still do decent CC even post mantra fix) or Thief, those 2 classes can bring team support and more importantly MOBILITY!

Yes, Greatsword makes you fast on flat terrain, but in PvP real mobility comes from using the Z axis to bypass parts of the map. A Thief or Mesmer (Eles and Necros too) can quickly get out of danger by teleporting to a place where classes that can’t teleport can’t chase quickly.

Guardians have the handy ability to chase these guys by using Sword or JI. Warriors and Rangers on the other hand have no way to do this. I don’t think Warrior necessarily needs a blink/teleport/shadowstep (although making Stomp a big jump that works for certain ledges would be cool) , just having a way to follow those that can would help a great deal. maybe make Sword 2 (Savage Leap) be able to follow like Guardian Sword 2 (Flashing Blade) would be really useful. It would give the weapon a sort of anti-backcap ability if you are fast enough.

We also just need our support aspect back. I’m tired of bringing very little to the team.

EDIT: It should be noted that this post was made before the Mantra fix and that there are also incoming nerfs to PU. The only parts that are still relevant now are my dislike for CS’s and BD’s designs. It’s not even about being OP, it’s that I feel that traits like that make the class easier to play and can help poor players survive and deal damage much easier than they should.

I am not an amazing Mesmer player and I can now do very well with not a ton of effort. Even with the upcoming PU nerf it’ll still be a great trait for peeling.

I’m sometimes baffled when I read patch notes. Pre-patch I had started to really fall in love with the class, it was as good as you were. The only major issue was its weakness to Thieves, which was an obstacle that you could overcome if you played well enough. I played just one long session of Mes post patch with a PU Mantra Shatter…and had to shelf the class until further notice because I didn’t feel skillful when I did well, just cheap. I hoped that the few issues would be smoothed out and I could go back to playing the class; only to watch them totally sidestep the real issues and nerf things like Mirror Blade and fixing a bug that might have been a really nice feature with some CD changes to Mantras.

There were generally 2-3 main issues people had with the Mesmer buffs:

1. Confounding Suggestions: Combined with Mantra of Distractions it could feel like you’re constantly being stunned. However, the issue wasn’t the Mantra, it was this trait. There’s no real skill involved with it, and even post Mantra fix you still see it used to set up easy Shatters from stealth.

A acceptable solution would have been making dazes stun on interrupt. Considering interrupts are supposed to be a big part of Mes in the first place this not only fits but also makes the trait much weaker for ambush spikes and it becomes more skill based. If that was still too light of change a slight increase to the ICD could be added.

2. Prismatic Understanding: Really? Why would you ever buff what was already one of the most hated traits in the game? It’s not only cheap to anyone facing it, but it allows you to stack stealth out of sight of an enemy and do a massive burst before they even know you’re there.

This trait also totally throws off any sort of prediction you could once do. If a Mes had Decoy and a Torch, when they stealthed you knew the burst would probably come within the next 3 seconds. Now, you have to blindly guess if it’s going to come in 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 seconds.

In the past the way Mesmer did stealth was a much more reasonable way than Thief. They’re stealth lasted just the right amount of time to catch your breath or set up your spike, but not so long that they could basically reset the fight.

Now, the line between Mesmer and Thief have been blurred as both can effectively camp in stealth. In fact, countering Mes stealth is more difficult that Thief now.

3. Blinding Dissipation: Again, another trait that blends the line between Mesmer and Thief. While they cant use it as much as Thieves, it was also added in the same patch that Ele received Blinding Ashes. This means that now Thief, Mesmer, Ele, and Guardian all have reliable access to blinds. Guard Blinds are generally obviously telegraphed, only 1 is difficult to avoid and you have to trait for it and it has a decent CD.

In my opinion blind was never something Mesmer needed. Also, because of how many (Engi, Necro, Warrior, Ranger) classes are designed it is now painfully easy to get a free stomp on them almost on demand without having to spend Distortion on it.

If these three things, heck even just the first 2, were what ANet focused on, we would have had a perfectly viable Mesmer class that was both strong and still generally skill based. Skills that give instant stun on a low ICD that can be used in stealth AND a skill that allows you to camp stealth was not what the class needed. Mantras could have been viable if the CD mechanic had not been fixed and the CDs of Mantras were increased.

I want to play Mesmer again, but atm the class still feels carried by traits and not the player.

I feel like Wrathful Spirit is actually a pretty solid skill when paired with Communal Defenses and Shattered Aegis.

If you run something like this here (you can sub sword for Scepter but the sword brings more chances to block) whenever you block you’re going to give your nearby allies Aegis, and when that Aegis breaks your allies are going to get Retaliation and it’ll deal damage. That’s a lot of potential damage being thrown out there. It’s also a really cool way to have team support while being DPS…I wish Warrior had something like that in PvP…

Dand.8231:

BurrTheKing.8571:

This is actually a really cool idea. This could probably be applied to all classes

This system may not change a whole lot in terms of choice, but it would help rifle and LB a lot especially.

Would you be OK with me writing something up along the lines of “Removing Weapon Traits: A New Form of Variety” and we could put it in the general or PvP forums. I would credit you of course. I really like this concept.

Go for it. If I wanted to keep my ideas all for myself, a public forum would certainly be an odd place to store them eh?

Warrior is the only class I feel qualified enough to make such specific trait suggestions for, but I agree it could be great for all classes.

There might be a power creep issue to content with, thought off the top of my head I can’t think of any class that has a weapon trait that would totally break the game.

x indigo x.6981:

Interesting concept .. I’ll be sure to try a variation of this soon. Keep in mind you’re lacking in mobility , condi clears , and any form of “oh kitten” buttons outside of your virtues yet you have the same hp as a zerker medi guard who has the sustain through medis. I’d reconsider the choice of amulet and runes since the runes have 30s ICD.

Having said that, I’m amazed at the retal uptime and amount of CC this provides. I’ll make a variant of this and try it out. Looking forward to reading about your experience with yours and see how it develops after field testing.

Yah…I tried to come up with some solution to the mobility issue but there isn’t much you can do without losing vital traits.

Perhaps…replacing the ammy for Celestial and the runes for Traveler could help somewhat, but you do lose out on Retaliation because you have less Aegis.

Oh, and Signet of Resolve is 1 condi cleanse every 8 seconds. Not a lot but you do have some removal.

Dand.8231:

The weapon traits are just not the best design model anyway. They really DO sort of limit diversity more than they encourage it.

Here’s a better way, eliminate all weapon traits and have each trait affect a much broader playstyle.

Example
Roll the 20% cooldown into the baseline for ALL weapons that currently have a 20% trait. And roll in a few traits that the weapon basically requires to be usable. Replace these traits with traits that provide more compelling choices.

Strength Tree – Forceful Blows (Replacing Forceful Greatsword): Gain 1 stack of might per critical strike with any attack.

Strength Tree – Weapon Mastery (Replacing Axe Mastery): All attacks deal 5% more damage, and critical hits grant 1 bonus adrenaline.

Arms – Scent of Blood (Replacing Blademaster): All attacks have +20% critical chance vs bleeding foes.

Defense Tree – Sundering Blows (Master 3, Replacing Sundering Mace): Attacks cause vulnerability to foes with daze/stun/cc/etc

Tactics – Burning Arrows: Rolled into Longbow Baseline. Replace with a new trait.

Tactics – Quick Breathing: Rolled into Warhorn Baseline. Replace with a new trait.

Discipline – Crack Shot: Rolled into Rifle Baseline. Replace with new trait.

Discipline – Merciless Blows (Replacing Merciless Hammer): All attacks cause +20% damage to foes with daze/stun/cc/etc

This is actually a really cool idea. This could probably be applied to all classes

This system may not change a whole lot in terms of choice, but it would help rifle and LB a lot especially.

Would you be OK with me writing something up along the lines of “Removing Weapon Traits: A New Form of Variety” and we could put it in the general or PvP forums. I would credit you of course. I really like this concept.

Many Warriors have given up being “meta” because we don’t really HAVE a meta anymore. We’re not really that effective of a class when compared to Mesmer so we might as well just have fun with our builds.

Heightened Focus is a big help because a Quickness Kill Shot is much easier to land. You could even drop one of your stances for Frenzy.

So, Warrior has been really disappointing in terms of interesting new builds. I don’t typically set out to make the next meta, I just want something that somewhat works and is interesting.

I noticed that you almost never see a Signet Guardian and thought it would be fun to try to make one.

Here’s what I came up with

I find the Crusader Ammy to be interesting and thought that this build takes decent advantage of it. Your crit chance is pitifully low so I tried to take as much Retaliation as possible to make up for it. There’s some cool combos you can do such as:

Chains of Light -> Smite -> Ray of Judgment -> Virtue of Justice to keep them Immobilized for a long period and repeatedly getting hit my Smite.

Bane Signet -> Symbol of Wrath -> Whirling Wrath

The Sigil of Impact will help make up for your low crit a little bit.

Again, I know this isn’t a meta build, but I do think this is a fairly interesting concept.

xbutcherx.3861:

BlackTruth.6813:

The people who want Warriors to get buffed think Hambow or Shoutbow happening was the right way to go. The answer is.. it wasn’t. It was just D/D ele in a different form. It is UNHEALTHY for the game because classes that can have high sustain AND can deal damage (much like D/D ele right now) is anti-fun. At this point, I don’t really agree with instant cast skull crack anymore either. The HIGH CASTING TIMES and the ATTACK TO SURVIVE mentality is what defines Warrior.

You people want a REAL buff that’s balanced in practice? Listen to me right now.

Signet of Might (60 or 75 second cd) – Ignore/Strip protection and block for 6 seconds
Signet of Fury (150 second cd) – For your next attack, ignore evades. OR For your next attack, your next CC skill does not allow your opponent to break out of stun for the next 5 seconds. Either is fine.

.

ROFL this guys even play warrior?.

He’s got a even worse reputation than I do on the Warrior Forums.

All he wants to do is make Warriors a one-combo pony that bursts one person down then dies. Which interestingly enough is how Warriors were in GW2 at launch.

@BlackTruth.6813 Once again you’re posting selective clips against poor players that clearly had no stun breaks up atm. Also in the second clip “YOU LITERALLY USED RAMPAGE TO WIN!” If you hadn’t used it, you were dead. Your setup would also be laughably easy to kite because once you use Bull’s Charge you have no gap closer whatsoever.

I’ve run that setup and the novelty is fun but you’re even more of a one trick pony than even average War builds. You have no mobility, and once your combo is over you’re basically a sitting duck.

I have 2 versions of Interrupt focused builds:
Strength Version

Arms Version

Yes, with Rampager’s ammy you are fragile stat wise, which is why I added shield. It gives you some sustain while still having an interrupt.

Strength fits the theme of Interrupts better because of Distracting Strikes. Arms has the amusing combo of using your Signet of Rage to activate the birds which with your high crit and a sigil of Earth will proc a TON on bleeds.

You could try going both Strength and Arms like this but I have a feeling you would be made of paper.

Note that none of these builds are currently “viable.” Eles have too much cleanse, Necros will tend the condis back and you’ll kill yourself, even Mes/Guard/Teef have decent condi cleanse. They are fun though.

RevanCorana.8942:

I don’t know about hotjoin, I’m sure warr can do well in ranked tpvp even without rampage with greatsword/hammer marauder amulet.
It just becomes a very skilled class at higher level.

You end up having to try about 10x harder to be even semi-competitive with Mes as a War now. Actually, that’s a really conservative estimate. I played one evening as a standard PU Shatter Mes and by the end I just felt disgusted with myself. So many times I should have died but I had so many tools at my fingertips that I would only die if I wanted to try and fight 3 at once, and even then I lasted a fair amount of time.

The reward/effort ratio is just silly compared to when I played pre-Spec patch.

What’s even more sad is that there are still those who think War is a easymode class…they were generally on Mes or Ele. They think that easy mechanically means easy to play. Of course then they always claim to have a Warrior and play it all the time, without fail, right after spouting off outdated info about War.

Warrior currently does nothing better than any other class. Our support got nerfed for whatever reason, our DPS is only good if you allow a Quickness Whirlwind Attack or a Stun chain to hit you, and our condi also got nerfed in some ways directly and indirectly in other ways for some reason.

I posted both here and on the Warrior forums that once Rampage got nerfed we would fall to the sidelines.

We’re actually not bad duelers, the build in my sig can beat most builds…if I make no mistakes or my opponent screws up. I’ve tried a few Rifle builds but they’re so one trick it’s not even funny.

Rangers are also now learning how strong Beastmastery is with birds so I would say now Warriors are well and truly the weakest PvP class in the game again. What’s sad is that even in the old Hambow days Warrior was never as imbalanced as Mes/Ele currently are. In fact, that period of time was probably the most balanced meta we’ve had looking back.

What’s disappointing is that the Arms line got some really cool changes in the form of Signet Mastery and Blademaster reducing Sword CDs (making Savage Leap able to actually keep you in melee range). Even the new Furious has some interesting things going on. Someone put a lot of work in that line but then we got shafted most everywhere else.

Now, a BIG part of this is how OP Mes/Ele are currently. That mantra fix barely hurt Mes as it still feels like I’m getting stunned from stealth constantly. If not for the duration of the stealths I could probably fairly easily predictthe burst , if they used Decoy or Torch the burst will come at around 2 and a half seconds, much like D/P Teef but now everything lasts so long it can come at almost any time within a 6+ second window.

I love that Warriors are mechanically simple, but take careful use of highly telegraphed skills to be effective against good players. I want that to stay. However, we need more than easily played around Double Endure Pain that allows us to bring more than just Stances and not be made out of paper. Physical Skills are all but worthless, Shouts would still probably be bad even without the nerf because of how much CC Mes can dish out, Banners are too immobile and clunky.

If there’s a dev reading this, I would love to have a respectful conversation about where this class is heading. There was a point where Warrior had access to the most number of viable builds in the game, and now here we are. I’ve put too much effort into my Warrior to transfer my main to Guardian or Ranger that I don’t have all the gear/love invested in. I’m starting to wish I had gone Guardian from the start because the game would have been so much less of a bumpy ride. Better to be constantly decent instead of jumping back and forth from useless to great.